#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 24 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:03 AM _unreal_: I just got so many laptops from work. 5
12:13 AM _unreal_: tossed out
12:38 AM t4nk_freenode is now known as t4nk_fn
12:48 AM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: might have just been its time
01:00 AM roycroft: festival!
01:00 AM * roycroft just got his first taste of some leftover salmon since the before times
01:00 AM roycroft: first railroad earth and first yonder mountain string band since the before times, too
01:13 AM Deejay: moin
01:19 AM BearFortress: submari
02:17 AM XXCoder: interesting tip https://www.reddit.com/r/CNC/comments/14gpbom/cheap_tempered_smartphone_protector_glas_helps/
02:56 AM Vvega[m] is now known as vvega0[m]
03:30 AM TheMightyFozz[m4: Has anyone ever put linux on a set top box?
03:31 AM TheMightyFozz[m4: I just got one for the 1tb hdd.
03:31 AM XXCoder: theres distros that is specifically for that
03:31 AM XXCoder: like mythtv
03:31 AM XXCoder: dunno if thats still around but yeah
03:32 AM TheMightyFozz[m4: I'm wondering if debian would work. It has ethernet and usb, so maybe it could be used as a cnc control pc
03:32 AM XXCoder: ahh dunno
03:33 AM XXCoder: I would recommand use live boot linuxcnc test how latency is like
03:33 AM TheMightyFozz[m4: If all else fails it could run octoprint I'm guessing
04:51 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:58 AM TurBoss: morning
04:58 AM randy[m] is now known as _randymuc_0[m]
04:59 AM TurBoss: JT-Cave: got the config working! 😄
04:59 AM TurBoss: but... it gives random following error somtimes...
05:02 AM JT-Cave: that could be latency
05:03 AM TurBoss: ok I'll check ty
05:14 AM travis_farmer[m4: Morning ☕️
05:33 AM JT-Cave: yo
05:54 AM Tom_L: morning
07:33 AM JT-Cave: going to be a hot weekend here
07:47 AM travis_farmer[m4: high of 75F here, with mostly rain
08:26 AM * travis_farmer[m4 is off to take trash to town dump...
09:09 AM travis_farmer[m4: there, trash is gone :-)
09:30 AM JT-Shop: roycroft, have you tried laser spot vs cross hairs on the d1?
10:49 AM travis_farmer[m4: Hmmm, i seem to have remarkably low ambition this morning... hope this afternoon i get more done on my machine...
11:00 AM Unterhausen: as ex-military, it bothers me you can follow the wagner troops advancing on moscow because they all have android phones with location services on
11:09 AM Tom_L: you'd think they would have thought about that
11:47 AM Loetmichel: Unterhausen: yeah, my wife lives near a very large tank exercise ground in northern germany (MunsterLager). It always bothered me why they saw the need to install cell jammers on that. cell signal cuts off like a knife once you enter the exercise grounds (there is a civillian street cutting the grounds in half) and comes back once you leave. Now i know why they bothered ;)
12:07 PM Scopeuk: That sort of thing. Not ideal
12:08 PM Scopeuk: I guess that is both saw and sore
12:09 PM Loetmichel: my own fault. Should have known better to try to hold a 20mm round alu bar while sawing it on the bandsaw. vice grips to prevent rotation would have been better.
12:10 PM * roycroft knows exactly what happened without viewing the video
12:10 PM Scopeuk: "this machine has no brain, use your own"
12:11 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: wasnt a video, just a pic of the result
12:11 PM Loetmichel: but yeah, the result was predictable. as i said: my own fault for not thinking.
12:13 PM skunkworks[m]: Loetmichel: blend actuator broke.. I replaced it with a bent piece of tin.. (so the passenger isn't getting blasted with hot air when it is 100f out..
12:13 PM roycroft: and yes, vice grips are the solution, with soft jaws in this circumstance
12:17 PM Loetmichel: skunkworks: ah, blend as in "blending the hot air and a/c air in the car" ?
12:19 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: i repeat: thats what i got for not thinking before doing. That said: why is it ALWAYS the left thumb? So far i nearly sawed it off, flattened it a few times with a hammer and managed to drive a 3mm two flute mill bit center through the nail and out the pad. :(
12:19 PM Loetmichel: (at least the last happened fast... 24krpm...)
12:21 PM Loetmichel: ah, and slipped with a deburr tool and cut open the thumb muscle.
12:21 PM Loetmichel: :)
12:24 PM Tom_L: maybe you should get a job with OSHA since you seem to have uncovered most of the things not to do
12:24 PM Loetmichel: that would be... well, is there an english version of the "Den Bock zum Gärtner machen"?
12:25 PM Loetmichel: ah, internet says "let the fox guard the henhouse"
12:25 PM Tom_L: Turn the goat into a gardener
12:26 PM Tom_L: which makes no sense
12:26 PM Loetmichel: goats eat everything plant based.
12:26 PM Loetmichel: same as fox guarding the henhouse.
12:26 PM Tom_L: true
12:26 PM Tom_L: and if you wanna be a serial killer have a large pig farm
12:27 PM Tom_L: they'll eat just about anything
12:28 PM roycroft: my replacement origin is out for delivery today
12:29 PM Loetmichel: point was that it isnt a good idea to let the clumsy and slightly careless guy do the OSHA.
12:29 PM Tom_L: roycroft, hope it's in at least as good of shape as the first one
12:29 PM roycroft: good timing - i need to make some bow ties to reinforce the joint between the two slabs i glued up
12:29 PM roycroft: and that would be a perfect first project for the origin
12:29 PM roycroft: tom_l: i could use the first one if i needed to
12:29 PM Loetmichel: care to elaborate what an "origin" is?
12:30 PM roycroft: but yes, i hope the replacement is in as good condition
12:30 PM Tom_L: cncish shaper
12:30 PM Loetmichel: in this context
12:30 PM roycroft: shaper origin - hand-held cnc router
12:30 PM Loetmichel: i see
12:30 PM roycroft: i'm going to use it to make the parts for my real cnc router :)
12:31 PM Tom_L: https://www.shapertools.com/en-us/origin
12:31 PM roycroft: that's not the primary purpose for purchasing it, but hopefully i'll be able to use it for that
12:31 PM Loetmichel: i would call that a "Münchhausen" but bootstrapping is probably the better term for english speakers. @ roycroft
12:31 PM roycroft: yes
12:39 PM Tom_L: what would you call a ball bearing that has a radius'd outter race?
12:39 PM Tom_L: so it can float in a holder
12:40 PM Tom_L: like a heim joint only with a bearing inside
12:41 PM Tom_L: 1" X .375" X .3125"
12:43 PM JT-Shop: pillar block bearing
12:43 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, have you tried the laser dot vs the cross hairs on the d1?
12:43 PM Tom_L: radial ball bearing
12:43 PM Tom_L: https://www.shoupparts.com/C6309-2RS-Radial-Ball-Bearing
12:44 PM Tom_L: now to find the size
12:52 PM roycroft: yes, jt-shop
12:53 PM roycroft: the cross hairs don't index properly, and i haven't bothered to get that sorted, so i just use the laser dot for now
12:53 PM roycroft: after i get the laser mounted in the enclosure i'll figure out the cross hair offsets
01:04 PM JT-Shop: ok I'll give that a try
01:05 PM JT-Shop: it's a pain to change stuff I have to drag a windblows laptop over to it
01:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heh, radius'd outer race, since it's the side opposite the race it makes sense, at first I thought a very loose bearing :)
01:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Nomenclature-of-a-deep-groove-ball-bearing-5_fig1_283021626 what is the OD of the outer race called? Does it have a name the "face" directly under "width"?
01:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://gmnbt.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ors-classification-1024x943.png
02:03 PM solarwind: Why are NPT threads considered not vibration resistant compared to ORB/ORFS/JIC?
02:04 PM solarwind: the latter are just regular threads and I always use hydraulic fitting thread locker because I use them on my air tools and they come apart all the time
02:04 PM solarwind: especially on air hammers
02:05 PM solarwind: but I've _never_ had an NPT fitting come loose
02:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: "considered" by whom?
02:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: beware of people telling you what to do, got it!
02:23 PM roycroft: the vibration resistance of tapered threads (and the liquid and gas tightness) depends almost entirely on how tightly they are engaged
02:24 PM roycroft: i would respectfully suggest to folks that say they are not vibration resistant that they add more spinach to their diets
02:25 PM solarwind: A lot of manufacturer sites like: https://blog.parker.com/site/usa/en-US/details-home-page/five-most-important-factors-you-need-to-consider-for-hydraulic-fittings-us
02:25 PM roycroft: of course, if you were to cut tapered threads in, say, 1095 steel, then harden the threaded bits you would not get much vibration resistance
02:25 PM roycroft: the threads would shatter before you could tighten them enough
02:26 PM roycroft: but i don't think anyone does that
02:26 PM solarwind: Most of the hydraulic fittings I've seen are 12L14 I believe
02:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: scroll down to see the author
02:26 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] LOL ok well there you have it
02:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: " April 18, 2017 by Fluid Gas Handling Team" yet her mug shows up at the bottom
02:29 PM * roycroft is assuming that parker.com manufacturs hydraulic fittings with o-ring seals
02:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: now IF the article had been written by Elisabeth (Lisa) Eitel Young, then it might be a different story
02:32 PM roycroft: grr - my origin delivery window has been changed from "11:15am to 3:15pm" to "by 7pm"
02:32 PM roycroft: i was hoping i could still get some stuff done today away from home after it arrives, but likely not
02:32 PM roycroft: the only way to guarantee an early delivery is to get in my car and run an errand
02:33 PM roycroft: i wish ups and/or shippers would go back to 1. not delivering on saturdays, and 2. requiring a signature on high value parcels
02:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I had a NPT joint that had a really slow R-410 leak on a ductless system. I tried tightening it more hoping it might gall and weld it self shut
02:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: leaked maybe a few oz per week
02:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so a full charge in spring would mean ice on the coils by fall
02:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: much to my surprise, It's been easier to find sours available at local bars
02:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they must be gaining some popularity
02:51 PM roycroft: they were a fad here a decade ago
02:51 PM roycroft: which means they're finally showing up in "mainstream" pubs
02:51 PM roycroft: (mainstream = "has a bud lite tap handle")
02:52 PM roycroft: or whatever the haters are drinking now
02:54 PM roycroft: i just read a thread where someone has (inevitably) pulled the router spindle out of a shaper origin and stuffed a diode laser head in in its place
02:55 PM roycroft: my concern about that is that it would take quite a bit of skill to move the origin at a steady enough pace to get an even etching, especially since the origin auto-corrects to maintain path accuracy
02:55 PM roycroft: i suppose if one is just cutting, that's not a major concern, but i should think it would be hard to get consistent results when etching with a hand-moved device
02:56 PM roycroft: not to mention having to stare in the direction of the laser beam at all times when using the machine
02:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's not that critical for etching applications
03:04 PM roycroft: i've found that somewhat small changes in the travel rate of my laser make appreciable changes in the appearance of the etching
03:04 PM roycroft: but i don't have enough experience yet to make any qualified claims about that
03:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why there is the argument of CNC vs hand made when it comes to wood
03:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and as though a CNC program can not be modified to reproduce small variances that handwork introduces
03:07 PM roycroft: there isn't
03:07 PM roycroft: i've never made such an argument
03:07 PM roycroft: any any that do are just silly
03:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe the laser etched Shaper Origin is superior to a proper CNC produced etching for this reason :)
03:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ungilcup as charged
03:08 PM roycroft: if thomas chippendale had access to cnc routers/lathes in the 18th century he absolutely would have used them
03:08 PM roycroft: he made furniture with hand tools because hand tools were all that were avaialable at the time
03:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh sorry not gilcup
03:09 PM roycroft: and regarding the artisnal qualities, that's all a matter of what one is trying to achieve
03:10 PM roycroft: some etching might well benefit from having direct human intervention in the process
03:10 PM roycroft: roycroft.us/YMSB.mov
03:10 PM roycroft: a snippet from one of the three bands i saw last night
03:10 PM roycroft: they had four fiddles for that song!
03:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgAvBaT9zmA&t=1s
03:11 PM roycroft: ooh, and ups are here
03:12 PM roycroft: yay
03:12 PM roycroft: now i can get some work done today
03:22 PM travis_farmer[m4: discovered an ill effect of my poor planning... was running my laser, and noticed when i paused LinuxCNC, the laser stayed on! so i just tied the enable relay, through an "and2" to enable only while "halui.program.is-running" is true...
03:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: don't beat yourself up, look at how poorly Russia planned
03:29 PM roycroft: the new origin touched off perfectly the first time
03:30 PM travis_farmer[m4: i wasn't beating myself up... until you compared me to russia ;-)
03:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: let me know if you need more things to worry about
03:32 PM travis_farmer[m4: lol
03:38 PM * roycroft is worried about the baggage retrieval system they've got at heathrow
04:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://youtu.be/urRHtw4bcsI
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://github.com/multigcs/LinuxCNC-RIO
04:33 PM Tom_L: cutting pancakes?
04:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think he's from Europe
04:46 PM Tom_L: kindof a neat little machine
04:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the probably have to meet some roundness spec or they are just flapjacks
04:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/@unixconf
04:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's probably a dental mill
05:07 PM Unterhausen: why would a dentist want to make a forbidden flapjack?
06:17 PM JT-Shop: 2 miles down a chat road and 2 miles back... never again with I go to Charlieville with an inappropriate vehicle
06:18 PM JT-Shop: chat is crushed limestone
06:33 PM BIG_KEVIN420[m]: i love those dental cnc machines, they are so slick
06:34 PM CAKESLOB: i mean, I love those dental cnc machines
06:34 PM CAKESLOB: CaptHindsight[m] I like the project, but I cant quite understand it yet
06:35 PM CAKESLOB: i see it uses yosys, and verilog, but theres a lot of python files
06:36 PM XXCoder: wow thats tiny 4 axis
06:51 PM CAKESLOB: 5 axis im p sure
06:53 PM XXCoder: ah yesh platform has rotation also even if not used in video
06:59 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/ikCzK-BMdik
06:59 PM XXCoder: chankshift. insane
07:00 PM XXCoder: last part needed for his project
07:57 PM onceloved: 有人吗
07:58 PM Tom_L: just us ghosts
07:58 PM onceloved: 8) 、
07:59 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, what's it for?
08:00 PM XXCoder: hes working on a steam engine I think
08:00 PM onceloved: 表情你看不到吗？
08:01 PM Tom_L: better off with english here
08:01 PM XXCoder: its longer video series, he made so many parts. linked video is last one
08:01 PM XXCoder: next one will be assembly and run I guess
08:02 PM Tom_L: i don't mind ones that show parts but when they focus on the dude doing it, it's click off for me
08:03 PM XXCoder: doing the machining?
08:03 PM Tom_L: if they have too much face time i don't watch them
08:04 PM XXCoder: oh guy never shows face so far I know
08:04 PM Tom_L: it's crappy now but when i was a kid: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Steam_engine/Steam_engine1.jpg
08:04 PM XXCoder: guy discusses the process a lot but during that time he usually shows print
08:05 PM Tom_L: yeah maybe a little too much
08:05 PM XXCoder: its great for less than expert as it shows thinking though plans to make parts
08:06 PM Tom_L: i get that
08:06 PM Tom_L: what sort of engine?
08:07 PM XXCoder: im not too sure, forgot some details lol. but its 2 chamber stream engine
08:07 PM Tom_L: the one my grandfather made and gave me as a kid: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Steam_engine/Steam_engine3.jpg
08:08 PM XXCoder: thats a classic
08:08 PM Tom_L: i had really no tools when i did mine
08:08 PM Tom_L: it's very old
08:08 PM XXCoder: when i was young, we moved a lot and poor as shit lol
08:08 PM XXCoder: so no machines or anything
08:15 PM onceloved: I have an i3-8100 CPU. Can you recommend a low-latency motherboard suitable for this CPU?
08:16 PM XXCoder: thats diffult question to answer honestly
08:17 PM XXCoder: some motherboards just is bad on latancy, some works after tweaking bios settings, and some just work as is
08:17 PM XXCoder: maybe someone will know specific one that works well with cpu you has.
08:19 PM Tom_L: onceloved, are you going to use a parallel port or mesa cards?
08:20 PM onceloved: ethercat
08:20 PM Tom_L: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/38409-recommended-pc-configuration-cpu-and-motherboard-q1-2020?start=20
08:20 PM Tom_L: there might be some advice there, not sure
08:21 PM Tom_L: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
08:21 PM Tom_L: that's what i was looking for
08:21 PM CAKESLOB: ahhh saturday, nothing beats champainge machining
08:22 PM Tom_L: not sure it has any i3...
08:24 PM Tom_L: that last list is pretty dated
08:24 PM CAKESLOB: that should be tghe letterhead for any linuxcnc guide
08:25 PM CAKESLOB: I have that at the beggining of a remora guide im writing
08:26 PM onceloved: If the delay does not work when using i915.enable_dc=0, but if i915.enable_dc= 0 (note the space before 0), the delay drops to just over 20 microseconds, but the resolution decreases to 1024x768.
08:26 PM roycroft: any list of system boards and their latency test scores should be deleted and never created again
08:26 PM roycroft: they are all outdated the moment they are published
08:27 PM onceloved: 1024x768 resolution is not suitable for me.
08:27 PM CAKESLOB: too big>?
08:27 PM Tom_L: sounds like he want's more res
08:27 PM CAKESLOB: damn
08:28 PM onceloved: It's too small.
08:28 PM Tom_L: why?
08:28 PM CAKESLOB: 1024*768 is what i do all my axis work for
08:28 PM CAKESLOB: 1024*768 and 800*480
08:28 PM onceloved: At least 1920x1080 resolution.
08:28 PM Tom_L: you're going to be hard pressed to find video res on a Motherboard dated when the i3 was popular
08:29 PM CAKESLOB: 768 is too small for any linuxcnc gui
08:29 PM onceloved: But the latency is very low.
08:30 PM Tom_L: i doubt it would be if you found a graphic card at the res you're wanting
08:30 PM Tom_L: cause i doubt you'll find that on an i3 motherboard
08:31 PM onceloved: It is likely that the integrated graphics driver is not loaded.
08:32 PM Tom_L: and alot of times graphics is what kills latency
08:32 PM onceloved: Exactly because of that space in "i915.enable_dc= 0".
08:33 PM Tom_L: what socket is that anyway?
08:33 PM Tom_L: the i3 is different than the i5 i7 isn't it?
08:35 PM Tom_L: those are LGA 1151
08:35 PM onceloved: The i3-8100 CPU uses the LGA 1151 socket.
08:36 PM Tom_L: i've got a coupld gigabyte boards that probably would work
08:36 PM Tom_L: i just got a ga-b250m-ds3h for an i5 i use for testing
08:37 PM Tom_L: ga-H110m-s2h
08:37 PM Tom_L: maybe
08:38 PM onceloved: If I use EtherCAT, what about a latency of around 100 microseconds?
08:38 PM Tom_L: i'm running 1920 x 1080 with the onboard graphic
08:39 PM XXCoder: isnt gpu cards a way to lessen latancy for some hardware?
08:39 PM Tom_L: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813128980
08:39 PM Tom_L: probably depends on the card
08:39 PM XXCoder: yeah
08:40 PM onceloved: Does high latency affect machining precision?
08:40 PM Tom_L: you just have to run things slower
08:40 PM Tom_L: higher base or servo thread
08:42 PM onceloved: The default SERVO_PERIOD is set to 1000000.
08:42 PM onceloved: 6000 millimeters per minute.
08:43 PM Tom_L: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813128930
08:43 PM Tom_L: used
08:44 PM onceloved: I like ITX.
08:48 PM onceloved: https://a.zdmimg.com/201808/30/5b87aa228ed8d3787.jpg_orig.jpg
08:48 PM Tom_L: https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=lga+1151+mini+itx
08:49 PM Tom_L: i hear ASROCK aren't as good
08:50 PM onceloved: I don't want to be a guinea pig. :')
08:50 PM Tom_L: ask PCW when he's around. he tests alot of boards
08:51 PM onceloved: ok
08:52 PM Tom_L: iirc he's PDT
08:52 PM Tom_L: zone
08:52 PM onceloved: I am still testing a J1900 motherboard, with latency below 10 microseconds, but the system experiences lag.
08:52 PM Tom_L: i have a couple of those
08:53 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what i have on the mill right now though
08:53 PM Tom_L: i doubt you get the graphics you want from one of those
08:54 PM Tom_L: the one i'm on to chat is a Q1900B-itx
08:55 PM Tom_L: has the grahics but i don't think the latency is that good
09:02 PM onceloved: https://s1.ax1x.com/2023/06/25/pCNmpfe.png
09:02 PM onceloved: When the latency jumps from over 1600 seconds to 54.
09:02 PM Tom_L: one thing, turn off all power saving etc in the bios
09:04 PM Tom_L: also isolcpus
09:04 PM Tom_L: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/40988-isolcpus-setting-in-buster
09:05 PM onceloved: I have disabled all the options that can be turned off in the BIOS.
09:06 PM Tom_L: look into isolcpus and see if that may help
09:06 PM onceloved: After multiple debugging attempts, I believe that isolcpus 2 and 3 are the most suitable.
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