#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 18 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:32 AM Deejay: moin
01:51 AM jpa-: thorhian[m]: carriages binding due to metal expansion sounds quite unlikely, it would have to get really hot for it to matter
01:54 AM jpa-: thorhian[m]: i had a moving gantry DIY machine where i had two X-rails and 4 Z-rails in corners around the spindle, because the construction was really flimsy in other ways; main drawback was that it reduced working area having stuff all around the spindle
01:55 AM jpa-: thorhian[m]: it's also a good idea to try to have the Z/X and Z/Y rigidity approximately equal - otherwise in heavy cutting, dimensions will be off unequally because of different deflection in different directions
02:03 AM jpa-: my current machine has the whole X axis moving up and down for Z movement, it's nice for rigidity (shorter moment arm when cutting close to table, instead of longer), but does result in rather slow Z accelerations
03:01 AM alcor[m] is now known as alcoralcor0[m]
04:13 AM travis_farmer[m4: Morning ☕️ and a happy Fathers Day to all the dads out there! :-)
04:47 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:14 AM travis_farmer[m4: i love how when i am trying to figure out how to write a HAL comp, when i discover it has already been made, and included in LinuxCNC :-) all i wanted to do was delay the turn-off (but not the turn-on) of a SSR driving a fume extraction fan. found the timedelay comp, and all is well :-)
05:29 AM travis_farmer[m4: as i remember from my days at attempting pyrography (wood burning, as an art), burned wood fades in UV light. so i was wondering, what do people use as a UV protectant? given what is available in my area, i was thinking Minwax Spar Urethane.
05:34 AM Tom_L: morning
05:38 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
05:43 AM Tom_L: pretty good storm last night
05:45 AM Tom_L: 51 mph wind gusts up around 71 mph
05:45 AM JT-Cave: wow
05:45 AM JT-Cave: nothing here yet but radar shows it near
05:46 AM Tom_L: as reported by noaa
05:46 AM Tom_L: haven't seen any of mine but the neighbor lost a fair size branch
05:46 AM Tom_L: i trimmed mine last year and early this year
05:47 AM * travis_farmer[m4 will be going down to the coast today, so his father can eat a couple lobsters :-)
06:30 AM JT-Cave: so I tell this guy that mesact2 is replacing mesact and he leaves me a bunch of bug reports in german (I think)
06:33 AM yaqwsx: Tom_L: Thanks fo the answer on RT status on Linux.
06:33 AM JT-Cave: getting a sprinkle of rain now
06:52 AM Jym: Tom_L https://youtu.be/tH2w6Oxx0kQ?t=41
07:14 AM JT-Cave: yo Jym
08:06 AM Jym: Hi JT-Cave, how you been?
08:09 AM JT-Cave: busy trying to be retired
08:09 AM * JT-Cave starts his chicken day
08:16 AM Jym: JT-Cave And how's that working out? lol
08:35 AM JT-Cave: it's pretty tiring lol
08:49 AM Tom_L: Jym, saw them in concert
08:49 AM Tom_L: at least a couple days ago :)
09:38 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, I added some buttons to quickly create configs in mesact2 for testing
09:51 AM jimktrains[m] is now known as jimktrains0[m]
09:57 AM Unterhausen: someone decided to use "kvm" to mean something other than a device to switch keyboards and monitors between computers
10:00 AM jpa-: as if any three letter acronym was unique
10:16 AM JT-Shop: lol
10:34 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop, ok
10:38 AM JT-Shop: I just have to complete the gantry homing sequence for the xyyz
10:39 AM Tom_L: just got an error but prior to the pull.. i'll post it anyway
10:40 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/mesact2/mesact2_error4.png
10:40 AM Tom_L: that was on my test gantry config
10:40 AM Tom_L: before this morning's pull
10:42 AM JT-Shop: yeah I was playing with the version adding pre- but it caused that issue
10:42 AM Tom_L: same error after the pull
10:42 AM JT-Shop: delete pre- from the version in the ini
10:43 AM Tom_L: ok
10:44 AM Tom_L: yeah, my first built config didn't generate that error :)
10:44 AM Tom_L: now you're just breaking things on purpose !
10:44 AM JT-Shop: lol
10:45 AM JT-Shop: my intent was to show it's pre ie not ready for prime time but it broke that parsing function
10:46 AM Tom_L: so what am i looking for now?
10:46 AM JT-Shop: when I get the gantry button done I'll be working on the main.hal file
10:47 AM Tom_L: i see XYZ and XYYZ buttons now
10:47 AM JT-Shop: xyz works and xyyz populates everything except the homing sequence
10:47 AM JT-Shop: gotta select defaults button first
10:48 AM JT-Shop: so 3 mouse clicks to get a working config to test with
10:48 AM Unterhausen: the used computer I bought has 16gb of memory. That's nice, I was expecting 8gb
10:51 AM Unterhausen: debian 12 doesn't recognize my ssd
10:51 AM JT-Shop: not playing nice?
10:51 AM Tom_L: default settings -> XYZ changes joint 0 1 & 2 but not 3's settings
10:51 AM Tom_L: erases what i had in each one and replaces with your values
10:52 AM JT-Shop: yup it will not erase anything... I should have a function to do that I think
10:52 AM JT-Shop: like File > New
10:52 AM Tom_L: but it replaced the values i had entered with new ones
10:53 AM Tom_L: i'm not starting out with a new config here
10:53 AM Unterhausen: last time I had to switch to a manual install to get it to work. Turns out this has been an issue for years on debian
10:53 AM Tom_L: opened the saved gantry one and hit defaults --> XYYZ
10:55 AM Tom_L: so i started a new config and hit default and XYYZ and it has your values with Gecko 203v also as a default
10:56 AM JT-Shop: yes it's a quick way to get a config from blank
10:57 AM Tom_L: with your default limits, you could fill in the homing as well probably
10:58 AM Tom_L: typically you would home Z separate from X and YY or Y
10:58 AM Tom_L: that's up to you... just a thought
10:59 AM JT-Shop: IIRC xyz home sequence is x=0 y=1 z=2
10:59 AM Tom_L: i home Z then the others
11:00 AM Tom_L: to get Z out of the way
11:00 AM JT-Shop: I might have not pushed that part cause I'm working on gantry homing sequence
11:00 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:00 AM JT-Shop: anyway it's just for testing
11:00 AM Tom_L: i always home Z first
11:01 AM Tom_L: sometimes saves hitting clamps or vises
11:01 AM JT-Shop: I do to
11:01 AM JT-Shop: I could iterate over the list of axes backwards
11:02 AM Tom_L: so even some 'safe' defaults on homing would get it up and running quicker
11:02 AM Unterhausen: argh, administrative password is set on this computer
11:03 AM Tom_L: Unterhausen, root?
11:03 AM Unterhausen: bios
11:03 AM Tom_L: hit the reset jumper
11:03 AM Tom_L: if you forgot it
11:04 AM Unterhausen: used computer
11:04 AM Tom_L: reset to defaults
11:04 AM Unterhausen: I think it was in a library, so maybe setting the password was a good idea
11:07 AM Unterhausen: never had this problem on one of these before, kind of a pain
11:09 AM Unterhausen: I wouldn't have to fix it if the debian folks weren't such a batch of purists
11:15 AM Unterhausen: dell deleted the manuals off their site because everyone knows a 4 year old computer is at the end of its service life
11:16 AM Tom_L: what model?
11:23 AM Unterhausen: I found it, not sure why the service tag number didn't get me to the right place
11:23 AM Unterhausen: it's a 7050
11:29 AM Unterhausen: apparently the intel raid mode doesn't work with linux, except that it does. Wonder if there are any instabilities
11:30 AM Unterhausen: clearing the cmos settings is on page 69 of the user manual. Nice
11:31 AM Unterhausen: I think the password might be saved in non-volatile memory says to contact technical support
11:32 AM roycroft: i would not use a proprietary raid controller
11:32 AM Unterhausen: it's a misnomer, apparently
11:33 AM * roycroft is all about the zfs these days
11:33 AM Unterhausen: this is a small form factor tower with very limited ability to install disks
11:37 AM JT-Cave: me thinks it's nap time
11:37 AM Unterhausen: eh, it's the kernel people that are the purists here. It works on my other system though
11:42 AM Unterhausen: sometimes it becomes obvious that linux is still a hobby project and this is one of those times
11:49 AM roycroft: i finished making my router sled yesterday
11:49 AM roycroft: so today i guess i get to fill my shop up with wood chips
11:49 AM roycroft: i have two slabs to flatten
11:49 AM Unterhausen: I saw a youtube called "stop using a tablesaw sled" and it showed how to make a tablesaw sled
11:50 AM roycroft: i'm thinking of making a new one
11:50 AM roycroft: i like the one i currently have, but it's really heavy, and i've seen some sled designs that are small and lightweight and still seem to work well
11:50 AM Unterhausen: someday this whole, "stop doing this" thing on youtube will pass
11:51 AM Unterhausen: I have the incra sled, but I have considered making one
11:51 AM roycroft: you think so?
11:51 AM Unterhausen: no, it will never pass. gets too many clicks
11:51 AM * roycroft rigs up a camera holder that will focus on his butt, so he can watch for monkeys flying out of it
11:52 AM roycroft: i've thought about getting the incra sled
11:52 AM roycroft: but the one i use is shop-built
11:52 AM Unterhausen: It's pretty nice
11:52 AM roycroft: i love my incra miter gauge
11:52 AM roycroft: i have lots of incra kit
11:52 AM Unterhausen: I still use the miter gauge a lot, I want to get a better one though
11:52 AM roycroft: but i never got their table saw sled
11:53 AM Unterhausen: the pm66 miter gauge scratches the table and I can't figure out why
11:53 AM roycroft: i have the one that does super micro-adjusts
11:53 AM roycroft: it ajusts to 1/10 degree
11:53 AM Unterhausen: worst part of scratching the table is that it makes a sound like fingernails on a chalkboard
11:54 AM Unterhausen: but a nice simple miter gauge is nice to have around. Don't need a long fence most of the time
11:54 AM roycroft: that would drive me nuts
11:54 AM Unterhausen: it's a pretty good miter gauge other than that
11:55 AM Unterhausen: except 90 degrees is off somehow
11:55 AM roycroft: https://incra.com/miter_gauges-miter1000hd.html
11:55 AM roycroft: that's the one i have
11:56 AM Unterhausen: I think I have an SE
11:56 AM roycroft: https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-cast-iron-miter-gauge/g5799
11:56 AM roycroft: i also have that one, but i primarily use it on my router table
11:56 AM roycroft: it's really nice because it's so sturdy and heavy
11:57 AM roycroft: it's drizzly here today
11:57 AM Unterhausen: that's a lot like the pm66 gauge
11:57 AM roycroft: so i'll be spending my time in the shop and in my office today
11:57 AM Unterhausen: wonder how they made it with the angle so far off
11:58 AM roycroft: a nice thing about the grizzly is that there's a lot of clamping surface for holding parts in place
11:58 AM Ma-Ryu[m] is now known as x_ma_ryu_x0[m]
11:58 AM roycroft: for 90ish degree cuts, clamping is not necessary
11:58 AM roycroft: but for acute angles, it's fairly essential, even if you have sandpaper glued to the miter gauge face
11:58 AM Unterhausen: I only use the miter express for cabinet parts, too much work usually
11:59 AM * roycroft doesn't have a decent chop saw, unfortunately, and does a lot of cutting on the table saw that would be better done on a chop saw
11:59 AM roycroft: i'd get a kapex, but a chop saw requires a lot of real estate to set up and operate properly - real estate that i don't have
12:00 PM Unterhausen: chop saw or miter saw would be nice. Also, an extra 100 feet in my shop would be nice
12:00 PM roycroft: yes and yeas
12:00 PM roycroft: i mean, to set up a chop saw you really need an entire wall
12:00 PM roycroft: you can install a lot of cabinets below the surface, which is nice
12:01 PM roycroft: but you still need an entire wall - at least 20'
12:01 PM Unterhausen: I moved a wall to add space in my shop and it's like nothing happened
12:01 PM Unterhausen: almost 100 square feet.
12:01 PM Unterhausen: I probably should get rid of my wood lathe
12:02 PM roycroft: my wood lathe is a mini-lathe with an extension
12:02 PM roycroft: it fits inside a cabinet in the shop
12:03 PM Unterhausen: I think I have to boot to a command prompt and use part or something like that
12:03 PM Unterhausen: of course, last time I did it was too long ago to remember
12:03 PM Unterhausen: i.e. last week
12:04 PM Unterhausen: I wonder how difficult it would be to convince dell support that I own this computer
12:08 PM roycroft: the reason i avoid proprietary raid controllers is if the controller fails, the disks usually cannot be read by another controller
12:08 PM roycroft: so you get to rebuild from scratch
12:09 PM roycroft: even fairly standard ones like adaptec have their problems - many of them can only resilver offline
12:10 PM roycroft: that always stuck me as odd
12:10 PM roycroft: the disks are hot-swappable, and the controller can be configured with hot spares
12:10 PM roycroft: but if a disk fails, you have to shut down your operating system and wait hours or days for the controller to resilver before you go back online
12:11 PM roycroft: not all of them work that way, but many do
12:19 PM skunkworks[m]: I have not used dedicated raid controllers for ages.. (the newer dell servers can be switched to hba mode) Newer as in oldish.. lol)
12:21 PM skunkworks[m]: I have a large array on a proxmox server - setup a script that test temp so I know if the server room is overheating. I think I have it set for 45c.. And once a month I get a alert because the server starts a scrub.. Should raise the temp a bit..
12:24 PM roycroft: my application servers run under proxmox pve, and my storage servers run truenas
12:24 PM roycroft: both of which use zfs
12:24 PM roycroft: when a disk starts to fail, i get an email
12:25 PM roycroft: when i get a chance, i swap the failing disk and resilver in the background
12:25 PM roycroft: i sleep way better these days, since ditching hardware raid controllers
12:27 PM Unterhausen: it's a chipset feature, it does enable raid though
12:28 PM Unterhausen: it's generally enabled on cheap computers because it helps performance of cheap ssd
12:28 PM Unterhausen: from what I can tell
12:28 PM Unterhausen: also seemingly helps hibernation somehow
12:32 PM Unterhausen: the identical system was set up ahci, bummer
12:34 PM Unterhausen: doesn't offer much hope https://help.ubuntu.com/rst/
12:35 PM roycroft: as long as you don't mind restoring from backups if the raid controller fails
12:35 PM roycroft: which to me defeats the purpose of a raid
12:36 PM Unterhausen: if this thing fails, the computer is dead dead dead
12:39 PM roycroft: regarding data integrity, there are three types of computers - 1. sandbox machines, where if it fails you just rebuild and don't care about your files, 2. archival machines, where you need your files, but if it takes a while to recover them that's ok, and 3. active machines, where you need your data almost always available
12:39 PM roycroft: hardware raid controllers are suitable for the first two types, generally, but not the third, generally
12:47 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: hey, cabinet maker. approx how big should a feed/runout table be for a table saw to be able to cut full sheet plywood ???
01:00 PM JT-Cave: Tom_L, did more updates on mesact2
01:10 PM Tom_L: ok
01:11 PM Tom_L: productive nap ehh
01:11 PM JT-Shop: yup
01:12 PM JT-Shop: I see CM is having a bit of a tantrum on the mailing list lol
01:13 PM Tom_L: finish up on windows then i'll look
01:14 PM roycroft: roguish: 6-7 feet if you want to rip lengthwise, or 3-4' if you just want to crosscut
01:14 PM roycroft: if you have the space for that
01:15 PM roycroft: when i was making cabinets full-time and had a bigger shop space my saw table had 6' extensions out the back and on the right
01:15 PM roycroft: i no longer have that luxury, and use my track saw for breaking down sheet goods these days, and sometimes for the final cuts
01:16 PM roycroft: a lot of folks, especially the festool crowd, don't even have table saws
01:17 PM roycroft: when i first started woodworking, btw, the first stationary machine i ever bought was a band saw, not a table saw
01:17 PM roycroft: when i moved down to eugene 30 years ago i sold all my stationary tools, and when i started setting up shop again here i also bought a band saw first, and i would do that if i had to start over again tomorrow
01:18 PM roycroft: there were no track saws back then, but it was still the right choice
01:21 PM Tom_L: so how did you go from woodworking to IT?
01:23 PM roycroft: i did a lot of coding when in high school and early college
01:23 PM roycroft: i always enjoyed it, and there were opportunities
01:24 PM roycroft: i was using the internet while at university, and when public access to the internet was going to become a possibility i saw opportunity to start an isp, which i did in 1992
01:25 PM roycroft: i shifted to that full-time and did fairly well for a couple years, but i decided i wanted to move to oregon, and sold that business and moved down here
01:25 PM roycroft: i had sold my shop, for the most part, and continued working in it for several years after that, until i grew tired of it
01:26 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: thanks. I am planning on borrowing a friend's Powermatic table saw. just got off the phone with him. i don't have room in the garage-shop, but plenty of room in the driveway right outside. want to make an extension table around it. yes, I'll cover it all every evening. ain't getting stolen, saw weighs like 600#
01:26 PM roycroft: but i was kind of stuck doing that, so i started building up shop equipment again, and am about ready to shift back to woodworking now
01:26 PM roycroft: roguish: there are accordian-style roller tables you can get for the back of a table saw
01:26 PM roycroft: if that helps
01:26 PM roycroft: they store fairly compactly
01:27 PM roycroft: but honestly, if you're just making euro-style cabinets, a track saw may work out very well for you, and you can skip the table saw
01:28 PM roguish[m]: he says he'll get a roller base for it....
01:28 PM roycroft: a festool track saw with a long rail, coupled with something like tso's parallel guide system and parallel edge guide, would let you make accurate, repeatable cuts in sheet goods
01:29 PM roycroft: and has the advantage of not having to muscle a big, heavy sheet around to cut it up
01:29 PM roguish[m]: well, i'm just going to make a few kitchen cabinets. not start a business....
01:29 PM roycroft: that would not be suitable for a production cabinet shop, but production cabinet shops use 14" sliding table saws that cost $30k
01:29 PM roycroft: right
01:30 PM JT-Shop: I've used a straight edge and a saw to break down sheet good very accurate if you're careful
01:30 PM roycroft: yes, that can be done
01:30 PM roycroft: the track saw approach is kind of a middle ground
01:30 PM roguish[m]: yeah. seen those. i've considered getting one of those fancy track saw guide things.
01:30 PM roycroft: https://tsoproducts.com/parallel-guide-system/tpg-parallel-guide-system/https://tsoproducts.com/parallel-guide-system/tpg-parallel-guide-system/
01:30 PM roycroft: ack
01:30 PM roycroft: https://tsoproducts.com/parallel-guide-system/tpg-parallel-guide-system/
01:30 PM roycroft: once is enough :)
01:31 PM roycroft: if you got a festool track saw you could sell it when you're done for 80-90% of what you paid for it, so consider that
01:31 PM * JT-Shop wonders why anyone would want to make kitchen cabinets with no shop
01:31 PM roguish[m]: something lke that
01:31 PM roycroft: resale value on those is very high
01:31 PM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: it's a project.....
01:31 PM roycroft: a mafell track saw will also sell for 80-90% used
01:32 PM JT-Shop: understand that for sure
01:32 PM roguish[m]: and i'm so tight, i squeak when i walk....
01:32 PM JT-Shop: I agree a track saw is much better and safer to use than a table saw
01:32 PM roycroft: but yeah, you're spending $700 on the saw, $350 on a long rail, $350 for the parallel guides and edge guide
01:32 PM roguish[m]: tight as a bull's ass in fly season
01:33 PM JT-Shop: a straight edge, a circular saw and two C clamps and your in business
01:33 PM Tom_L: :O
01:33 PM roycroft: so $1400 for a track saw system that will do the job easily
01:33 PM roycroft: but with that setup you would not only be able to cut as accurately as with a tablesaw, your setups would be faster
01:33 PM JT-Shop: unless your motive is to end up with new tools...
01:33 PM roycroft: well as i said, you can sell the festool kit for 80-90% of what you paid for it
01:34 PM roguish[m]: I will definitely look into that
01:34 PM roycroft: even when i'm doing the final cuts on the table saw, i break down the sheet goods with a track saw
01:35 PM roycroft: and even if i had the shop space to handle full sheets on the table saw, i'd still do the breakdown with a track saw
01:35 PM roycroft: i'm too old to muscle full sheets around like that any more
01:35 PM roguish[m]: I have or can borrow most everything I need.
01:35 PM roguish[m]: ditto
01:35 PM roycroft: i use that sawhorse setup i built last year to break the sheets down
01:36 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Sawhorses/Sawhorses1.jpeg
01:36 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Sawhorses/Sawhorses2.jpeg
01:37 PM roycroft: and i have a cart now that will lift the sheets up onto the sawhorses
01:37 PM roycroft: i lay pink foam boad on top of the frame, under the sheets, when i'm going to cut on that
01:37 PM roguish[m]: nice
01:38 PM roycroft: and with my new pickup, i could actually just back the pickup into the driveway and slide sheets off the bed onto the sawhorse frame
01:40 PM roycroft: but if you decided to use the table saw anyway, i'd consider breaking down the sheets slightly oversize with a circular saw and a straightedge, as jt sugested, and do the final cuts on the table saw
01:40 PM roycroft: if you do that the sheets will be easier to handle, and you won't need ginormous outfeed tables
01:41 PM roguish[m]: definitely a good call.
01:44 PM roycroft: hmm
01:44 PM roycroft: i wonder if my shaper origin will see shaper tape that's laminated
01:45 PM roycroft: i'm thinking of taking a sheet of 11x17 card stock, putting shaper tape on it, and then laminating it
01:45 PM roycroft: that way i can tape it down to a large piece that i need to machine, and have a reusable tape field, similar to the shaper workstation or plate
01:46 PM * roycroft is not wanting to invest a lot of money in shaper tape, and wants to not treat it as a consumable most of the time
01:46 PM roycroft: it should be a quick and cheap experiment
01:53 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, what is 'Open 7i96s on the menu for?
01:54 PM JT-Shop: it opens a configuration named 7i96S, I was using that to open a sample config
01:55 PM Tom_L: guess what...
01:55 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/mesact2/mesact2_error1.png
01:56 PM Tom_L: appears you're kindof designing this around the 7i96S board
01:58 PM Tom_L: at least for now
02:00 PM JT-Shop: well yeah that one is hard coded to my pc so no use for you
02:00 PM JT-Shop: I'm testing with the 7i96s first because it's available
02:00 PM Tom_L: i figured as much and i also have one
02:01 PM JT-Shop: once I think mesact2 is fully functioning I'll test with a 7i92t and 7i76
02:01 PM Tom_L: i don't have a 7i92t but i do have a 7i92
02:01 PM JT-Shop: same thing
02:01 PM Tom_L: not the new chip?
02:01 PM JT-Shop: same pins
02:02 PM Tom_L: different bit bin file
02:02 PM JT-Shop: yep the card is different but the pin names are not
02:02 PM JT-Shop: which made me scratch my head a bit to code for that
02:04 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure if it matters (I think it does) but you might check on a build config if there are 2 axis with the same letter, the settings should also be the same
02:05 PM Tom_L: at least the limits and home settings
02:06 PM Tom_L: doing a gantry presents it's own problems
02:07 PM JT-Shop: for a gantry the ini file will have the axis section then the joints for that axis
02:07 PM Tom_L: the 'copy values' should help prevent that
02:07 PM JT-Shop: I'm not sure what you mean
02:07 PM Tom_L: i'm not either
02:07 PM Tom_L: i've never set up a gantry
02:07 PM JT-Shop: we'er in trouble now lol
02:07 PM Tom_L: or seen a gantry config
02:08 PM JT-Shop: for a gantry you use the same axis in two joints and use -n for home sequence
02:08 PM Tom_L: so it sets up one [AXIS] section with multiple [JOINT] sections under that?
02:09 PM JT-Shop: I "think" the joints need to be consecutive
02:09 PM JT-Shop: yes
02:09 PM Tom_L: so do i
02:09 PM Tom_L: after what little reading i did on it
02:09 PM JT-Shop: the joint sections have the axis letter in them as well
02:10 PM Tom_L: should be a valuable addition since it seems alot have trouble setting up a gantry config
02:11 PM JT-Shop: what should be a valuable addition?
02:11 PM Tom_L: being able to set up a gantry config with this
02:12 PM Tom_L: easily
02:12 PM JT-Shop: gantry setup has been in since the beginning of mesact
02:12 PM Tom_L: i never looked for it :)
02:14 PM JT-Shop: geez debian 12 has a million freaking fonts wtf is wrong with them folks
02:14 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/mesact2/mesact2_error2.png
02:15 PM roycroft: fonts are good, mmkay?
02:15 PM Tom_L: check config said i was good to go :)
02:15 PM roycroft: but only the good ones
02:15 PM * travis_farmer[m] uploaded an image: (3657KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/XCkSTAxKIYBLVsVybMVwgtFY/20230618_112115.jpg >
02:15 PM * travis_farmer[m] uploaded an image: (3521KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/SgQXQxYkFrSoHCGNqXbtEGfc/20230618_112146.jpg >
02:15 PM travis_farmer[m]: another great day down to the coast! my father really loved his 2 lobsters, and my buffalo chicken was very good as well. 🙂
02:15 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, how did you get that error?
02:15 PM Tom_L: build config
02:15 PM Tom_L: after check config
02:16 PM Tom_L: i was fixing the gantry setup to have YY as joint 1 & 2
02:16 PM JT-Shop: that's update ini function so the config had to exist
02:17 PM Tom_L: and joint 4 had some info in it but was set to 'Select' so it would get deleted
02:17 PM JT-Shop: so you opened a config and modified it?
02:17 PM Tom_L: yes
02:18 PM Tom_L: basically swapping joint 2 & 3 around so Y would be side by side
02:18 PM Tom_L: as joint 1&2 YY
02:18 PM Tom_L: i had it as 0 1 2 3 as X Y Z Y
02:18 PM roycroft: nice, travis_farmer
02:18 PM JT-Shop: ah ok
02:18 PM Tom_L: originally
02:18 PM roycroft: maine is a state i've always wanted to explore
02:18 PM travis_farmer[m4: :-)
02:19 PM roycroft: technically, i've been there, but only for a fueling restop at the bangor airport
02:19 PM Tom_L: and joint 4 had some data in it but i set it to 'Select' so it wouldn't be saved
02:19 PM roycroft: that fueling restop took several hours, so i did deplane and walk around the airport, but that barely counts as having visited the state
02:19 PM Tom_L: at least that was my understanding to delete a joint
02:20 PM travis_farmer[m4: yeah, bangor is just a touch of Maine :-)
02:20 PM JT-Shop: yep change the axis letter to Select and it's deleted
02:20 PM roycroft: if i had to live on the east coast, i think maine would be high on my list of places
02:20 PM JT-Shop: post the ini so I can see
02:20 PM roycroft: as long as i could afford to live right on the coast
02:21 PM Tom_L: it's in that same directory now
02:21 PM travis_farmer[m4: that would take millions
02:21 PM Tom_L: as the error files
02:22 PM * roycroft is making some lunch before heading out to the shop to make some slabs flattish
02:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: are lobsters really just giant sea spiders?
02:23 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i see one thing in the ini
02:23 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, I can recreate that error
02:23 PM Tom_L: look where it put [AXIS_Z]
02:23 PM Tom_L: it should be below joint2
02:23 PM travis_farmer[m4: CaptHindsight: lol, we call them sea bugs, but they are not spiders... rather close relation though
02:24 PM Tom_L: and joint3 doesn't have an [AXIS] section
02:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: do you avoid shellfish during months that end in -ber?
02:25 PM JT-Shop: for gantry configs there is only unique [AXIS] sections but there is a [JOINT] section for every joint used
02:25 PM Tom_L: right but it looks like it's in the wrong place
02:25 PM Tom_L: double checking what i did here..
02:25 PM JT-Shop: after what?
02:26 PM Tom_L: one sec
02:26 PM JT-Shop: after update or new
02:26 PM travis_farmer[m4: i don't eat shellfish, myself. but i have never heard of avoiding them in months with a -ber
02:26 PM Tom_L: after update
02:26 PM JT-Shop: ok, I may need to work on that more then
02:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: in the midwest we eat cows during just about any month
02:27 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, also joint2 has the wrong data in it
02:27 PM travis_farmer[m4: same here, with cows. i think lobster is fished year-round
02:27 PM Tom_L: on screen the min limit is -13.0 but in the file it is -7.0
02:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: Foodie tradition dictates only eating wild oysters in months with the letter “r” – from September to April – to avoid watery shellfish, or worse, a nasty bout of food poisoning.
02:28 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, but joint3 is correct for Y
02:28 PM Tom_L: they didn't get moved around... the data is good just in the wrong joint
02:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/science/oysters-in-r-months-rule-4000-years-old/
02:29 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, screen shot?
02:29 PM travis_farmer[m4: watery shellfish??? they are cooked in water... how would they not be watery?
02:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: duuno
02:30 PM travis_farmer[m4: though soft-shel lobster tends to be more watery...
02:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe it's like avoiding bloody beef?
02:30 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/mesact2/Joint2_Ygantry.png
02:31 PM Tom_L: in the file, joint2 should be joint3
02:31 PM Tom_L: and vise versa
02:31 PM Tom_L: it didn't duplicate the [AXIS_Y] but it shouldn't on a gantry which is ok
02:31 PM JT-Shop: post the ini
02:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I tried Wallburgers for the first time yesterday. Pricey but top quality ground beef.
02:31 PM Tom_L: the joints just got mixed up on 3 & 2
02:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/mesact2/7i96s_gantrytest_2.0.ini
02:32 PM Tom_L: that should be the screenshot i just did
02:33 PM travis_farmer[m4: never had a wallburger... anything like a floorburger? ;-)
02:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Wahlburgers, sorry
02:33 PM travis_farmer[m4: lol
02:34 PM Tom_L: like wallbugger?
02:34 PM JT-Shop: update ini won't move joint(s) that exist so any user added items don't get deleted
02:34 PM travis_farmer[m4: still haven't had one. best beef in my area is Mac's Grill, in Minot Maine
02:34 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, if i delete that ini file it should get straightened out ?
02:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I try to avoid the floorburgers unless they are wagyu and I'm hungry enough and the floor is supposedly clean
02:35 PM JT-Shop: yes
02:35 PM travis_farmer[m4: lol
02:36 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, so update didn't correct joint 2 and joint 3 axis entry?
02:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: oh not far from Lewsiton
02:36 PM travis_farmer[m4: yup, great beef :-)
02:37 PM Tom_L: no but deleting it fixed it i think
02:37 PM Tom_L: yes, a new config looks right
02:38 PM Tom_L: saving the changes to the old one mixes up the joints
02:38 PM JT-Shop: mixed up the axis variable in the joints it looks like
02:39 PM JT-Shop: joint 2 AXIS = should be Y and joint 2 AXIS = should be z after the change... I don't think I tested that
02:41 PM Tom_L: i'll keep that one if i need to test it again
02:41 PM JT-Shop: ok
02:53 PM Jym: Was I pinged?
02:57 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/mesact2/mesact2_error3.png
02:58 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, tried again and got that ^^ again
02:58 PM Tom_L: just double checking
03:00 PM JT-Shop: you made a xyzy config then changed it?
03:06 PM JT-Shop: wow I just engraved some 3mm poplar and cut out a business card from it
03:15 PM Tom_L: yes
03:17 PM roycroft: i've toyed with making engraved wooden business cards
03:17 PM roycroft: maybe i'll give it a go some day
03:19 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (126KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/ITcWjEBKrVhfWJebQiZGVslM/20230618_151743.jpg >
03:21 PM JT-Shop: I'm impressed with the cut quality
03:25 PM roycroft: yeah, that looks good
03:25 PM roycroft: while i haven't used my laser extensively yet, i've been very impressed with the quality and its capabilities
03:25 PM roycroft: it's going to be a very useful tool, and will pay for itself for sure
03:26 PM XXCoder: good morning all lol
03:26 PM XXCoder: roy did you see that video?
03:27 PM roycroft: yes
03:28 PM roycroft: that's an impressive machine
03:28 PM roycroft: the maker himself, i'm not so impressed with
03:28 PM XXCoder: yeah way too expensive lol though the remove the wood cover and ink thing is cool
03:28 PM roycroft: he bought his d1 pro without doing his homework and then complained that it would not do what he wanted to do
03:28 PM roycroft: i guess that worked, though, because xtool sent him the right machine for free
03:28 PM XXCoder: yeah, hes not best. i enjoy channel but know its not best
03:29 PM roycroft: anyway, some of his techniques were interesting
03:29 PM roycroft: that map he did turned out really nice
03:29 PM XXCoder: yeah
03:29 PM roycroft: i was quite impressed with how that worked out
03:29 PM roycroft: to the point that might experiment with a similar technique myself
03:30 PM XXCoder: its why I linked you that video, even though I know you dont really like him.
03:30 PM roycroft: well i had never heard of him before last night
03:30 PM roycroft: and i didn't say i don't like him
03:30 PM roycroft: i said he did not do his homework, and i don't like that about him
03:30 PM roycroft: but he does seem creative and personable
03:30 PM XXCoder: hmm misremembered then, though hes one of those epoxy youtube channels, most of creations is epoxy stuff
03:31 PM roycroft: before i bought my xtool i did the research and i knew exactly what a 450nm laser could cut/etch and what it could not
03:31 PM XXCoder: though in least hes always careful with epoxy. seen bad channels where creator is careless
03:31 PM roycroft: speaking of which
03:31 PM roycroft: matt estlea is selling his river table
03:31 PM roycroft: the one with an actual river running through it
03:31 PM Unterhausen: which youtuber are ya'll talking about?
03:31 PM XXCoder: one with actual water?
03:31 PM roycroft: yes
03:32 PM XXCoder: Unterhausen: https://youtu.be/2NQv0sN-sMo
03:32 PM Unterhausen: thx
03:33 PM XXCoder: interesting. hope he gets lot money.
03:33 PM roycroft: he's asking £7500 for it
03:33 PM roycroft: and he may well get that
03:33 PM roycroft: https://mattestlea.com/product/the-river-table-deposit/
03:34 PM * roycroft heads back to the shop
03:34 PM XXCoder: have fun roy
03:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: I can make one with a flowing river vs just static epoxy
03:37 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder, which video?
03:37 PM XXCoder: the laser engraving one? see one linked to unter
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: waterwall with pump is easy enough
03:38 PM roycroft: capthindsight: that is what the one i linked to above does
03:38 PM roycroft: there is water flowing thrugh the middle of the table
03:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ak ok, after reading, the pic didn't make it obvious
03:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I can see someone paying the £7500, years ago I had some customers paying much more for SS versions when that was a craze
03:42 PM Unterhausen: our next door neighbor was the person that identified the penn state professor that was abusing his dog
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ooof
03:43 PM Unterhausen: apparently he had trail camera pictures of him as long ago as 2010
03:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pedos are similar, it seems to take a while to catch many even though they leave a long trail
03:46 PM JT-Shop: Our systems have detected unusual traffic from your computer network. This page checks to see if it's really you sending the requests, and not a robot. Why did this happen?
03:46 PM JT-Shop: I keep getting that when I search from the url bar in firefox
03:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hmm maybe you got malwarez?
03:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have never seen that in FF
03:47 PM JT-Shop: in debian?
03:47 PM Unterhausen: debian isn't totally immune
03:48 PM XXCoder: malicious plugin for firefox would work on any os, easy enough to check though.
03:48 PM JT-Shop: 1637 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
03:48 PM JT-Shop: maybe I need to update
03:51 PM * JT-Shop removes a thousand task-some-language crap
04:29 PM Unterhausen: I guessed that the only jumper I found on the mobo was the password jumper and it was
04:33 PM Unterhausen: that worked
04:39 PM Unterhausen: hours later and using up neurons on useless info, debian is installing
04:53 PM Unterhausen: is there a good reason to change the desktop manager from Gnome?
04:54 PM XXCoder: dunno, maybe preferences?
04:54 PM XXCoder: I use xkcd.
04:54 PM XXCoder: **xfce
04:54 PM travis_farmer[m4: i use cinnamon
04:56 PM Unterhausen: i guess there are different utilities
04:56 PM Unterhausen: can install both and it should be able to switch at login
04:56 PM Unterhausen: I wish there was an xkcd desktop manager
04:56 PM XXCoder: yeah its not irrversable
04:56 PM XXCoder: so you can try out see what you like.
04:57 PM XXCoder: some people like mate
04:57 PM Unterhausen: I liked mate
04:58 PM Unterhausen: the problem with the xkcd desktop manager would be that the tooltips would be way too long
04:58 PM Unterhausen: when you hover over an icon
04:58 PM XXCoder: lol
04:59 PM JT-Shop: I find Mate to be the most user friendly and Gnome to be the most bloated
04:59 PM Unterhausen: how does bloat affect me?
04:59 PM JT-Shop: it uses up useless electrons
05:00 PM Unterhausen: who will think of the electrons?
05:01 PM JT-Shop: it's like a tree that falls in the forest will anyone hear it?
05:03 PM XXCoder: certainly not me. even if I eyewitnessed the fall lol
05:04 PM JT-Shop: if you were close enough you would feel it
05:04 PM XXCoder: yeah lol
05:05 PM JT-Shop: a big tree really shakes the ground when it hits
05:08 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (185KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/wbePuPznCUtJeHCwiqLuVEWj/20230618_165553.jpg >
05:09 PM JT[m]: Finally unboxed the xTool rotary
05:09 PM XXCoder: laser engrave roller?
05:10 PM JT[m]: Printing locators for the honeycomb
05:10 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (228KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/VOUKVoIbTWbKUhTwJgHlnVtA/20230618_170513.jpg >
05:10 PM travis_farmer[m4: :-)
05:10 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder, yes
05:10 PM JT-Shop: I'm very impressed with the quality and options it has
05:10 PM XXCoder: nice. can make fancy bottles lol well and other stuff
05:11 PM JT-Shop: bottles glasses cups anything round
05:12 PM XXCoder: I know :D
05:14 PM Tom_L: jt's gonna start selling engraved shot glasses :)
05:16 PM JT-Shop: selling sounds like work lol
05:21 PM XXCoder: jt you saw that video? part im talking about is around 7 minutes in
05:21 PM XXCoder: effect is amazing
05:22 PM JT-Shop: missed that part got a link with the time in it?
05:22 PM XXCoder: sure a second
05:22 PM JT-Shop: k
05:23 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/2NQv0sN-sMo?t=457
05:23 PM JT-Shop: oh yes I did see the light show it's pretty cool
05:24 PM JT-Shop: but that's a CO2 laser = $$$
05:24 PM XXCoder: thats too far adread
05:24 PM XXCoder: link should take you to start of wood engraving
05:24 PM JT-Shop: https://www.xtool.com/products/xtool-p2-55w-co2-laser-cutter
05:24 PM XXCoder: wood thats already painted and coated
05:24 PM XXCoder: yeah expensive lol
05:24 PM JT-Shop: lol I didn't hit play
05:25 PM XXCoder: tsk tsk lazy lol
05:25 PM JT-Shop: I saw the end of the map and way cool
05:25 PM Tom_L: what'd he rub it with?
05:25 PM JT-Shop: I liked the effect of wiping on the black paint
05:26 PM JT-Shop: watered down paint
05:26 PM Tom_L: k
05:26 PM JT-Shop: acrylic paint and water
05:26 PM XXCoder: I suppose its best to do varnash coat or something again after it dries to protect it
05:30 PM JT-Shop: yup, I wonder what the "pre-finish" was
05:30 PM XXCoder: probably varnish
05:30 PM JT-Shop: I want to engrave a photo of my Mom for my sister on something
05:30 PM XXCoder: dunno though
05:31 PM XXCoder: board might be commerical wood scrap
05:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how many of the tools like that laser engraver/cutter go cloud based after they become successful?
05:37 PM JT-Shop: I'm thinking that that last part once it's cut out I can flip it and engrave the back side if I can hold the outer part still
05:38 PM JT-Shop: ouch some heavy precip just south of us with the red tornado warning thingy
05:38 PM JT-Shop: https://radar.weather.gov/station/kpah/standard
05:39 PM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: duck and cover..... get to the bat cave
05:42 PM JT-Shop: it's between jonesboro and us so pretty safe atm
05:54 PM roguish[m]: ok, at least with twisters ya have a little bit of warning. out here it's really just quakes..... no warnings. quakes are fun.
05:55 PM JT-Shop: we have earthquakes here too...
05:55 PM roguish[m]: yup, ya do
05:56 PM roguish[m]: the closest major fault to me is the Hayward fault, it's way over due for a big pop.....
05:59 PM JT-Shop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Madrid_Seismic_Zone
06:00 PM roguish[m]: ok, enough for today. see ya'll tomorrow..... ttfn
06:22 PM roycroft: what i have learned so far today is that it takes a person with at least some amount of masochistic tendencies to willingly flatten slabs with a router sled
06:23 PM roycroft: should i ever decide to do this again, i think that decision will have to include buying/building a big cnc router to do the flattening
06:23 PM roycroft: or jobbing it out to some other masochist
06:23 PM XXCoder: lol
06:23 PM roycroft: that said, i'm making good progress
06:24 PM roycroft: i have to slabs to flatten, and i have one side of one of them roughly flattened - it's time to get the rotex out to finish the job
06:24 PM * roycroft just popped into the office to get fresh batteries for his headset and quickly check emails
06:24 PM roycroft: i still have two weeks to get this done, so i should be ok
06:25 PM XXCoder: new main clickspring video awesome. sadly still not about that ancient computer
06:30 PM Unterhausen: in gnome, it's just as easy to install xfce as it is to add a keyboard shortcut for the terminal
06:31 PM Unterhausen: I always thought once you make the slab flattening sled, making something to move the router around wouldn't be that much more work
06:34 PM Tom_L: 2 MPGs and control it like an etch-o-sketch
06:37 PM Unterhausen: probably be famous on youtube.
06:52 PM XXCoder: lol that same guy engraves word on corn seeds
07:17 PM AlexmagToast[m] is now known as alexmagtoast0[m]
07:35 PM XXCoder: lol https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtY2-BFIAUr/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading
07:35 PM XXCoder: giant chickens
07:39 PM infornography: that is terrifying
07:40 PM XXCoder: funny how people seem to have accepted the fact
07:40 PM infornography: and look at what it is like to drive there
08:23 PM roycroft: the second slab went much better
08:23 PM roycroft: i started taking shallower cuts, and it went way faster and easier, with no burning
08:33 PM XXCoder: nice
08:52 PM roycroft: yeah, but now i have both slabs flattened on one side
08:52 PM roycroft: i need to join them together end to end to make a long shelf
08:52 PM roycroft: and because one of them was so warped and twisted, it's 1/2" thinner than the other
08:53 PM roycroft: that's a lot of material to remove from the thicker slab
08:53 PM roycroft: and the slabs are 18" wide
08:53 PM roycroft: my thicknesser handles 15" material, so no go there
08:54 PM roycroft: i briefly pondered getting a 20" one when i bought it, but decided i would need the extra width too seldom, and i did not want to tie up more floor space
08:54 PM roycroft: oh well, i have enough time to do it, i think
08:55 PM Tom_L: sounds like alot of sawdust
08:55 PM roycroft: a tremendous amount
08:56 PM roycroft: and the slab flattening cutter makes long, stringy chips that clog up the extraction port on my router
08:56 PM roycroft: so i'm not getting nearly the extraction i'd like
09:08 PM mficken[m] is now known as mficken0[m]
09:36 PM thorhian[m]: Do you guys know how industrial CNC mills manage to get motors that spin at such high speeds (12,000 RPM to 18,000 RPM), especially when a lot of those spindles are directly driven and don't have any gearing? The integrated AC 3-Phase motors built into the typical BT30 ATC spindles can easily get up that high, and rarely are built for handling even 2-3K RPM unless they are higher wattage and are 4 Pole from what I've seen. However, anytim
09:36 PM thorhian[m]: standalone motors that are higher RPM (especially above 8000 RPM). I can't find anything on ebay or aliexpress.
09:38 PM thorhian[m]: I know some industrial machines integrate two winding configurations in their spindle motors (like the 18,000 RPM high torque spindle I've seen specced on a 5-Axis Mazak machine), but I doubt that is too common except in very high end machines?
09:42 PM Tom_L: the industrial heads are $$$
09:43 PM RonC[m] is now known as runeron0[m]
09:43 PM XXCoder: lower wattage spindles tend to be higher rpm
09:43 PM XXCoder: my spindle is 27000 rpm for example
09:44 PM XXCoder: but its dc
09:44 PM XXCoder: but larger machines yeah it gets expensive
09:44 PM roycroft: which makes sense, because lower wattage spindles work better with smaller tooling, which needs to run at a higher speed than large tooling
09:45 PM roycroft: you don't need a 15hp spindle to run a 2mm end mill
09:45 PM XXCoder: yeah. my cnc router spindle is only 400w or something. forgot number now
09:45 PM XXCoder: so its max size tools is pretty tiny
09:45 PM Tom_L: 100hp 10k rpm spindle or thereabouts on the ones my kid runs
09:46 PM Tom_L: they also have some low rpm ones for hard metals
09:46 PM roycroft: but you can put some pretty big tooling on those
09:46 PM roycroft: and yes, run the spindle really slow
09:46 PM thorhian[m]: Yeah I'm looking more in the domain of 3.3KW to 5.5KW, so not tiny in the garage world, but also not quite in the low end of industrial machines. BT30 ATC of course.
09:47 PM Tom_L: ones similar to those are in the $75k range
09:48 PM thorhian[m]: Machines are the motors by themselves?
09:48 PM thorhian[m]: or*
09:48 PM Tom_L: spindle heads
09:48 PM Tom_L: assemblies
09:48 PM XXCoder: roy I was working on adding PID control to my cnc router so it could increase power as its cutting to keep lower rpm work well
09:48 PM Tom_L: i know the ones he used to run were that much but i don't know what rpm those were
09:48 PM Tom_L: i think a bit higher than the gantries he runs now
09:48 PM Tom_L: like 20k rpm
09:49 PM thorhian[m]: For a 12,000 or 18,000 RPM spindle assembly? 75K?
09:49 PM Tom_L: and 70+ hp
09:49 PM Tom_L: thereabouts yes
09:49 PM Tom_L: at those hp
09:49 PM * roycroft was running a 2.2kw spindle at about 14,000rpm today
09:49 PM thorhian[m]: At only 5.5KW?
09:49 PM Tom_L: oh hell no
09:49 PM Tom_L: big industrial spindles
09:49 PM Tom_L: 50 taper
09:49 PM thorhian[m]: Yeah that makes more sense lol
09:50 PM Tom_L: i forget the ones he used to run at his first job
09:50 PM thorhian[m]: The best fit I've found so far is this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/264815238976
09:51 PM thorhian[m]: 4 Pole as well, so some extra torque in the lower ranges.
09:51 PM Tom_L: oddly enough when i did mine i was looking for lower rpm higher torque for mine
09:51 PM Tom_L: looks reasonable enough
09:52 PM XXCoder: seems good
09:52 PM Tom_L: you _can_ find them with atc on the end too
09:52 PM Tom_L: for retention knobs
09:52 PM thorhian[m]: Well, ideally I'd want to get a 5.5KW servo motor that can get up to 12K that I can attach via belt to a belt bt30 spindle.
09:52 PM thorhian[m]: Tom, that listing is a BT30 ATC spindle.
09:52 PM XXCoder: but that link seems to be atc included spindle? unless im misunderstanding something
09:54 PM Tom_L: with those rpm you just about have to run those heatshrink holders
09:54 PM roycroft: you don't want that spindle, thorian
09:54 PM Tom_L: also, what belt will stand up to those rpm?
09:54 PM roycroft: it says it takes half a year to repair the bearings, and a year to repair the spindle :)
09:55 PM Tom_L: you want to research that as well. belts have limits
09:55 PM thorhian[m]: I think the most ideal would be one of these (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804945001196.html) but with bearings rated for 12K, and a motor that could hit up to 12K without overload, rated for up to 5.5KW, and a seperate encoder if the motor isn't servo driven.
09:55 PM Tom_L: anything spinning that fast will likely be direct drive
09:56 PM thorhian[m]: Pretty sure large timing belts or Poly-V belts can handle those speeds last time I checked, but definitely a good idea.
09:56 PM thorhian[m]: roycroft, what are you talking about?
09:57 PM alex4o[m] is now known as alex4o0[m]
09:58 PM Tom_L: https://www.tyma.eu/technical-information/faq/what-is-the-maximum-circumferential-speed-of-belts/
09:58 PM thorhian[m]: Tom_L, my main concern with direct drive is that I have to make this machine myself lol. I'm not really sure how a direct drive pneumatic ATC spindle works or how that connection is designed.
10:00 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/114389590678
10:00 PM Tom_L: one with atc
10:01 PM thorhian[m]: Tom_L, that is integrated, like the spindle I listed earlier. By direct drive I meant a separate motor directly coupled to the top of the spindle.
10:02 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure you will find that at those rpm. you may... but it's not the norm
10:02 PM Tom_L: balance becomes a huge issue
10:03 PM Tom_L: what do you plan to cut with it?
10:04 PM thorhian[m]: I think I see what roycroft is talking about, but I thought that was engrish for a warranty lol.
10:05 PM XXCoder: cheaper ones tend to break bearings and stuff after a bit
10:05 PM XXCoder: unless you dont bother to run stock and replace em right away, and balance it yourself
10:05 PM XXCoder: in least thats what I understood anyway
10:06 PM thorhian[m]: Tom_L, aluminum, various steels including stainless, titanium. I want 10K RPM+ for 3D surfacing with some smaller tools, but enough power to have decent MMR for a garage machine.
10:07 PM Tom_L: you may be hard pressed to find a one spindle fit's all solution for that range of materials
10:08 PM Tom_L: Ti & Stainless want lower rpm & constant feeds where you can buzz the crap out of aluminum
10:08 PM Tom_L: pretty easy to work harden if you don't follow the rules
10:08 PM Tom_L: then snap goes the cutter
10:09 PM XXCoder: man some metals work harden if you stare at it hard
10:09 PM Tom_L: that's why most shops will have machines for aluminum and some with slower spindles for hard metals
10:10 PM XXCoder: or expensive machine that can do any
10:10 PM roycroft: stainless steel work hardens if you think about it
10:11 PM roycroft: you don't even have to stare at it hard
10:11 PM Tom_L: some alloys are much worse than others
10:11 PM thorhian[m]: I'm aware Ti/Stainless will need consistent power, but I'm willing to go slower (but not too slow due to the work hardening you are talking about). Some people are crazy enough to get a small tormachs cutting Ti decently (albeit not nearly as efficiently as a machien actually built for the task). Most of what I'll be doing will be aluminum and non-stainless steels, but I need the option to handle all of it even if it isn't entirely optima
10:12 PM Tom_L: so for the higher spindle rpm you need to be sure it has the HP the feeds require to avoid work hardening
10:12 PM Tom_L: the chip load is the critical factor
10:13 PM thorhian[m]: Yes, which is why constant radial engagement tools paths are wonderful. :) Easy to control MMR while maintaining a given feed rate for roughing. I'm not going to full, half, or quarter slotting Ti on my machine lol.
10:18 PM Tom_L: the trend of late is to take deeper thinner cuts using the full flute length of the given tool
10:20 PM Tom_L: sometimes you don't have a choice for a given profile
10:20 PM thorhian[m]: Yes, this relies on adaptive (constant radial engagement) tool path algorithms. I'm working on a standalone 3D one personally. I made a slow prototype for my senior project actually.
10:22 PM Tom_L: nice
10:25 PM thorhian[m]: Tom_L https://github.com/Thorhian/pyThunder_Path/tree/initial-path-generation
10:28 PM Tom_L: why did you go with stl files?
10:28 PM * thorhian[m] uploaded an image: (291KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/LpcMtJRRgkzlyHTsrMWLElwQ/image.PNG >
10:29 PM * thorhian[m] uploaded an image: (569KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/EmOiEYqJYLMwQZBazZxdeZgP/2022-12-08_17-36.PNG >
10:29 PM Tom_L: and carry the decimals out so far?
10:30 PM Tom_L: nothing will cut to that precision :)
10:30 PM * thorhian[m] uploaded an image: (84KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/XQHulsadtMpMLGUpAUOLeZNH/Fero_Crude.PNG >
10:30 PM Tom_L: cool project though
10:30 PM XXCoder: wow. not even a61 can do that precision
10:31 PM thorhian[m]: I could truncate those numbers, just never bothered. Those are just raw calculated numbers.
10:31 PM Tom_L: most generally only go to 4 places
10:34 PM thorhian[m]: Based on my research, many 3D tool path algorithms actually use meshes for generating paths, and I can definitely see why after doing this project. STL is just a common and simple mesh format. In reality you can send raw mesh data via TCP/JSON, since that’s one of the interfaces I have in this prototype for operating with other software.
10:35 PM thorhian[m]: So yeah, I know machines won’t follow to the precision of a float, just never bothered to to round the numbers in the code yet lol.
10:37 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cincinnati/Cincinnati_6.jpg
10:38 PM Tom_L: one of the cnc my kid runs
10:38 PM Tom_L: those are probably Ti parts
10:38 PM XXCoder: heh still think thats riciously large
10:38 PM Tom_L: 3 spindle
10:38 PM XXCoder: you might be able to fit all of a61 in that, though have to reorder
10:38 PM Tom_L: it's quite a walk to go around it
10:39 PM Tom_L: mind you it has 2 gantries on each bed
10:40 PM Tom_L: yeah i can see titanium on the dumpster
10:44 PM Tom_L: he did some spacex parts recently
10:44 PM Tom_L: no idea what they were
10:51 PM thorhian[m]: Probably Falcon 9 parts.
10:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I like the way covers
11:20 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ