#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 10 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:17 AM firephoto__ is now known as firephoto_
01:18 AM Deejay: moin
01:24 AM dougemes[m] is now known as dougemes3039[m]
01:46 AM didiergm[m] is now known as didiergm0[m]
01:47 AM User_4[m] is now known as user_40[m]
02:39 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
03:12 AM travis_farmer: Morning :-)
03:26 AM TurBoss: good morning
03:30 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
04:38 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:05 AM travis_farmer: 52F high of 65F, with thunderstorms later
05:37 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
05:50 AM JT-Cave: 61°F high 87°F small chance of tstorms this afternoon... pretty good chance for rain tomorrow
07:07 AM JT-Cave: weird a guy ordered a 7i92TM, 4 7i85's and a 7i76
07:12 AM travis_farmer: must be he has a lot of control issues... ;-)
07:21 AM * JT-Cave goes to start his chicken day
09:02 AM justache- is now known as justache
09:23 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
09:36 AM Unterhausen: I have a 7i44 (50 pin) I want to hook up to a 25 pin board. Shoud I just buy a 7i74?
09:39 AM Unterhausen: if there is a similarity to the pinout pattern, it's not obvious to me
09:42 AM Tom_L: Unterhausen, i think he may make an adapter cable
09:43 AM Unterhausen: doesn't it just kill the second half of the pins?
09:43 AM Tom_L: yup
09:46 AM Unterhausen: the 50 pin card just uses half of the pins for ground
09:46 AM Tom_L: right
09:46 AM Tom_L: but the db25 only has 17? io
09:46 AM Tom_L: or maybe less
09:47 AM Unterhausen: in this particular case, that's all that is needed
09:48 AM Tom_L: you might ask him when he's around
09:48 AM Tom_L: i doubt it's one that's on his site
09:48 AM Unterhausen: I guess it's worth the $69 to avoid the hassle
09:56 AM Unterhausen: JT has one. I imagine I should get a cable even though I already have one hidden somewheres
10:08 AM solarwind: Helping a neighbour with his demolition job at the local school. I got him to buy a plasma cutter which he loves.
10:09 AM solarwind: But he started with an oxy acetylene torch and the local "welder" taught him to "clean" the tip by turning on the torch at full blast and rubbing it onto wood
10:09 AM solarwind: essentially begging for flashback
10:16 AM Tom_L: yeah he should have used a flint rock instead
10:22 AM travis_farmer: well poop... the 24V relays i got are not pin compatible with the perf-board i was going to solder them to... so now i need to use the 16-relay module i was trying to avoid, as it takes up space and i don't need all the relays... oh well, i guess. the PCB relays i got didn't cost me much, but it is just the principal of it.
10:42 AM Tom_L: din mount relays
10:43 AM Tom_L: jt had some but i think he's out now
10:43 AM travis_farmer: yeah, i should have... got PCB relays as they were cheaper...
10:43 AM travis_farmer: as long as they take less than 300mA to activate
10:50 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/electronics/Relay1.jpg
10:50 AM travis_farmer: wow, those are "vintage" ;-)
12:12 PM * ithe2guu[m] uploaded an image: (4972KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/ZOfCivPVaQjPdoWFRrlOjRAr/IMG_1594.jpg >
12:12 PM ithe2guu[m]: Why am I getting this error?
12:15 PM Unterhausen: maybe you misspelled something or the comp isn't loaded
12:15 PM Unterhausen: somebody with better hal knowledge could tell you how to check. Halshow maybe?
12:18 PM ithe2guu[m]: I am in the process of adding probe screen right now
12:19 PM ithe2guu[m]: And it does not seem to like the hall components I added
12:19 PM * ithe2guu[m] uploaded an image: (4578KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/urKCgkVjtxorRvnrSTWqCCAK/IMG_1595.jpg >
12:19 PM ithe2guu[m]: When I comment these out, it does not terminate with that error
12:26 PM Unterhausen: adding the probe screen to what interface
12:27 PM pcw--home: You may need to put those in the postgui hal file
12:27 PM pcw--home: (assuming those pins are exported by the probebasic GUI)
12:30 PM pcw--home: also try "halcmd show pin | grep probe.tool" from a terminal window when linuxcnc is running to see if those are there
12:33 PM * ithe2guu[m] uploaded an image: (3540KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/bFTiflphPrKJyzirVjxKWFtU/IMG_1596.jpg >
12:33 PM ithe2guu[m]: No feedback
12:35 PM ithe2guu[m]: I am using axis, not pro basic
12:38 PM pcw--home: OK so what have you added to you hal file to support the toolchanger?
12:50 PM ithe2guu[m]: I am trying to add this in
12:50 PM ithe2guu[m]: https://github.com/linuxcnc-probe-screen/probe-screen-ng/tree/master
12:50 PM ithe2guu[m]: i have followed the insertions
12:50 PM ithe2guu[m]: i added the .axisrc file to my home folder
12:51 PM ithe2guu[m]: removed the thigs listed from my .hall
12:51 PM ithe2guu[m]: then added listed things to my .ini file
12:52 PM ithe2guu[m]: then copied the two files to my config folder
12:58 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The custom.hal commands need to be in the postgui_halfile The probe.tool... pins don't exist until the gui is loaded.
01:05 PM ithe2guu[m]: what do i need to add to postgui_halfile?
01:06 PM ithe2guu[m]: do i need to add the contents of psng.hall to there?
01:07 PM * ithe2guu[m] sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/901ca9290bf9aaa85559c4c497cb47a4516067a3
01:07 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: All of the lines in your custom.hal that you showed need to be in the postgui file.
01:08 PM ithe2guu[m]: ok, i will try that thanks
01:11 PM ithe2guu[m]: I moved those to custom hal
01:12 PM ithe2guu[m]: And still not working
01:12 PM JT-Shop: did you add custom.hal to the ini?
01:12 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Is custom.hal what is pointed to by the postgui_halfile = in your INI?
01:12 PM * ithe2guu[m] uploaded an image: (5404KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/mEZSQQYtuNOlQaWtCavJOIgh/IMG_1597.jpg >
01:13 PM * ithe2guu[m] uploaded an image: (5096KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/kOuuDOUPmWLHFbCUjhTVeDyv/IMG_1598.jpg >
01:13 PM JT-Shop: an incomplete image is not much to go on pastebin the text
01:14 PM JT-Shop: but the error is in the second screen shot
01:16 PM JT-Shop: ithe2guu[m], note that has not been updated for 3 years and may not work with current LinuxCNC
01:17 PM ithe2guu[m]: here is my error report
01:20 PM * ithe2guu[m] posted a file: linuxcnc.report (9KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/kIeRLaaltPzHoIAxiYrLqLeb >
01:20 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Post your ini file as well.
01:24 PM roguish[m]: ithe2guu: which lcnc are you running? probe screen v1 and v2 are not python 3
01:25 PM roguish[m]: if you have a 2.9 or 2.10 lcnc, you need psng
01:25 PM ithe2guu[m]: i am on lcnc 2.8.4
01:27 PM ithe2guu[m]: ZincBoy[CA, ON] here is my .ini
01:27 PM * ithe2guu[m] posted a file: (4KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/RUAodCgBEiChcLeKtRRnFyXb/pm25_3.ini.bak >
01:29 PM * ithe2guu[m] posted a file: (5KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/olRFVCAwuWQeAFvRxNMLYvoo/pm25_3.ini >
01:29 PM * ithe2guu[m] posted a file: (13KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/HHWASENzTGcgeXlLknUzWOiu/pm25_3.hal >
01:31 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That doesn't match the error. the error is in custom_postgui.hal and that doesn't exist in the ini you posted.
01:32 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The lines in your custom.hal file you posted earlier need to go in your postgui_call_list.hal, the file that is pointed to by POSTGUI_HALFILE as I said before.
01:32 PM pere: Perhaps someone here find this visualization of the linuxcnc git history interesting? <URL: https://peertube.debian.social/w/owVEArdKExLephFoLaGNM4 >
01:34 PM roguish[m]: pere: wow.
01:34 PM pere: yes, the developers have been quite active for a long time. :)
01:37 PM ithe2guu[m]: Still getting an error
01:38 PM * ithe2guu[m] uploaded an image: (4165KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/qHXrwizXvAtasddpyLbReqem/IMG_1599.jpg >
01:38 PM * ithe2guu[m] uploaded an image: (3585KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/htfdVhZGZmTCfWxYdBIkfNnt/IMG_1600.jpg >
01:45 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Looks like the probe embedded tab is not loading for some reason. Do you see any python errors? They would be earlier on. You really need to pastebin the whole startup log because the screenshots aren't that helpful.
01:46 PM ithe2guu[m]: Ok
01:47 PM roguish[m]: ithe2guu: add this to your .ini DEBUG = 0x7FFFFFFF
01:47 PM roguish[m]: that give total debug iinfo
01:54 PM * ithe2guu[m] posted a file: linuxcnc.report (9KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/JBNZozOOvlwNFZrALhYtorlm >
01:55 PM ithe2guu[m]: i am looking for python errors right now
01:59 PM ithe2guu[m]: ZincBoy[CA, ON] i do not see any python errors in there
02:00 PM ithe2guu[m]: it is somthing to do with a missing pin called `probe.toolchange-change
02:04 PM pcw--home: Where is that pin supposed to come from?
02:06 PM ithe2guu[m]: i am not sure
02:25 PM ithe2guu[m]: Or commented out all together
02:26 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The pin gets created by the python code in psng/python/tool_measurement.py This is the reason I suspect the python code is not loading.
02:26 PM * ithe2guu[m] uploaded an image: (5845KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/cVRuyKavnPizaglegfVWbLFr/IMG_1601.jpg >
02:26 PM ithe2guu[m]: Should this line be mapping to something else?
02:26 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, the probe-in net should connect to whatever input pin you are using for your probe.
02:27 PM ithe2guu[m]: Ok then that makes sense
02:27 PM ithe2guu[m]: What steps would you take to troubleshoot the python code not loading?
02:28 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Did you try launching with debug=0x7ffffff in the [EMC] section of the INI?
02:28 PM ithe2guu[m]: I added that line to my ini
02:29 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Are you running from the command line?
02:30 PM ithe2guu[m]: No, I was using a GUI tool
02:30 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Run from the command line. You get more info that way.
02:36 PM ithe2guu[m]: so i would run somthing like this?
02:36 PM ithe2guu[m]: ``linuxcnc -d 0x7ffffff pm25_3``
02:38 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You can just run linuxcnc. The -d is covered with the debug= in the INI. The chooser will pop up and you can select the config. If you are just running the same config the "linuxcnc -l" will run the last selected config.
02:43 PM roycroft: i've just come up with a cunning plan
02:43 PM roycroft: i hope it would work out better than baldrick's
02:43 PM roycroft: if i get a shaper origin i can use it to machine parts for my cnc router
02:44 PM roycroft: it's claimed that it machines aluminium nicely
02:44 PM travis_farmer: there you go, roycroft :-)
02:44 PM roycroft: i still don't know how accurate it is, though
02:44 PM travis_farmer: ...
02:44 PM roycroft: if it can hold 0.001" that would be great
02:45 PM roycroft: 0.005", not so much
02:45 PM roycroft: somewhere in between, maybe
02:45 PM travis_farmer: 100.0, not so great either ;-)
02:46 PM ithe2guu[m]: It didn’t spit out anything more than what the gui showed
02:47 PM roycroft: shaper say it is accurate to 0.001"
02:47 PM roycroft: and shaper also say that it is accurate to 0.020"-0.050"
02:47 PM roycroft: i suppose it could be both
02:48 PM roycroft: but i'd like the not 0.020"-0.050" accuracy, please
02:49 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You don't have DEBUG = 0x7FFFFFFF set then.
02:52 PM roguish[m]: ithe2guu: comment out that 1 line in your postgui hal file, and see what happens....
02:54 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Roguish the next line will be the problem then. None of the probe hal pins are being created by the python code.
02:54 PM roguish[m]: ithe2guu: the DEBUG line goes in the [EMC] section of the .ini file.
02:55 PM roguish[m]: ZincBoy[CA, ON]#0663: ok, to run probe basic ya gotta copy some files and directories to the config directory. if they are not there, it will error....
02:56 PM ithe2guu[m]: I see, that’s why it wasn’t working
02:56 PM roguish[m]: ya gotta follow the instructions....
02:56 PM roguish[m]: i've run probe screen a lot...
02:57 PM ithe2guu[m]: Sorry, I’m an absolute noob
02:58 PM roguish[m]: ithe2guu: very important here is to RTFM.
02:58 PM roguish[m]: read the free manual
02:59 PM travis_farmer: lol
03:00 PM roguish[m]: ithe2guu: that's cool. we all were at one time.....
03:09 PM * ithe2guu[m] posted a file: (16KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/KnlTAfFhNCJSizXRfGqZTivE/error.txt >
03:09 PM * ithe2guu[m] posted a file: (0KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/NVUzQpjvmhdATzRSwyEndDWr/linuxcnc_debug.txt >
03:09 PM * ithe2guu[m] posted a file: (1KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/BvxtZbHiMsHhdMIfbKGqrrcb/linuxcnc_print.txt >
03:09 PM ithe2guu[m]: here is the full debug:
03:13 PM * ithe2guu[m] posted a file: linuxcnc.report (9KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/WFXfTymmsCpGkxFKlfmAOXWM >
03:20 PM JT[m]: I need to make a probe screen for Axis
03:23 PM roguish[m]: JT: there is a qtvcp version of axis..... and there are 2 probe screens available to add to it....
03:23 PM JT[m]: Ok
03:24 PM JT[m]: I'm not a fan of guis that are not fully customizable
03:26 PM JT[m]: Yum fried crawfish
03:28 PM roguish[m]: JT: got ya. qtvcp will eventually get stable, but it's still really in development. some of us are nudging morley and the other authors a bit....
03:28 PM roguish[m]: recall axis took a couple years to settle down....
03:29 PM JT[m]: Axis just works
03:30 PM roguish[m]: rodw and I have been working on the qtvcp probing problems with testing and comments. morley and crew are fixing.
03:30 PM roguish[m]: you're right about axis....dead solid
03:31 PM roguish[m]: just made a simple rack for my TTS tool holders. ugly, but functional
03:31 PM JT[m]: So is my mill touch with probing and conversational
03:32 PM roguish[m]: I think there should be more guis included with the distros of lcnc. like QtPyVCP and your mill touch, etc
03:33 PM roguish[m]: just seems some folks are contrary to competition. even though there really is no competition.....lol
03:34 PM * travis_farmer is back to using Axis, 'cause like they say, it just works :-)
03:34 PM roguish[m]: and your gcode generator.....
04:04 PM JT[m]: There is no competition between guns but some can't see that more is better
04:05 PM JT[m]: Mmmm good and spicy seafood boil
04:07 PM JT[m]: Downtown Clarkton Mo
04:22 PM Unterhausen: Cakeslob has some really cool mods to Axis. Which is amazing, because he doesn't know anything about computers
04:27 PM Guido2665[m]: I am far away from my stuff but I was wondering: when using an mpg for jogging, can I switch between two different mpgs (physical) connected to separate encoders using sth like mixgeneric, or will that causes the axis to jump?
04:54 PM skunkworks[m]: mixgeneric?
04:54 PM skunkworks[m]: sht?
04:54 PM skunkworks[m]: sth?
04:57 PM skunkworks[m]: Unterhousen: I feel he is self deprecating... He is quite smart and very cool...
05:26 PM roycroft: i despise oper abuse
05:28 PM roycroft: that said, i finally have all the old paint stripped off the other parts of the laser enclousure, and have reprepped them for painting
05:28 PM roycroft: so it's time for primer!
05:30 PM XXCoder: whats oper?
05:30 PM XXCoder: nice on paint progress
05:34 PM mits5782[m]: oper is server operator in IRC land
05:35 PM mits5782[m]: O line, in old hybrid IRCD speak
05:36 PM XXCoder: ah I just use op
05:36 PM XXCoder: and im been using irc for years :P
05:37 PM mits5782[m]: I used to run servers for a couple small networks, we called it oper for some reason
05:37 PM mits5782[m]: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
05:37 PM XXCoder: :)
05:39 PM mits5782[m]: specifically my ER-11 spindle takes a similar force in backing off the nut to unseat the collet... and I've tried with different nuts and collets
05:39 PM mits5782[m]: so I think it's something about the internal taper
05:53 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The ER taper is self holding so it will take a fair bit of force to unseat. They certainly shouldn't just pop out.
06:02 PM roycroft: an op, from my perspective, is a channel operator
06:02 PM roycroft: an oper is a server operator
06:03 PM roycroft: that distinction dates back to the early '90s, when i had a server on efnet
06:03 PM roycroft: and my god
06:03 PM roycroft: i've been on irc for 30 years now
06:03 PM * roycroft just realized that
06:04 PM XXCoder: ahh
06:04 PM roycroft: mits5782: are you talking about the initial release of the nut and then having to wrench it again to remove the cutter and collet?
06:04 PM XXCoder: I misunderstood mits then
06:04 PM XXCoder: sorry mits
06:05 PM XXCoder: joe pie videos is getting annoying
06:05 PM XXCoder: he over-compresses videos so its quite noisy
06:05 PM * roycroft has primer on the parts
06:06 PM roycroft: i think i can do the three coats of color tomorrow
06:06 PM roycroft: but that would put the time to clear coat on fair weekend
06:06 PM roycroft: so i guess the parts will get to cure for an extra week before they get clear
06:07 PM roycroft: unless i can shoot clear earlier
06:07 PM roycroft: and i do have a test board now, so i can try
06:07 PM roycroft: i'm still trying to figure out if an origin can hold a couple thousandths
06:08 PM roycroft: there are so many mixed messages on that
06:09 PM roycroft: i think it all comes down to three things 1. the skill of the operator. 2. the origin version - v2 has a much higher resolution camera than v1, and 3. how densly the shaper tape is applied and how easy it is for the camera to see
06:09 PM roycroft: and as far as skill, i think it would take more skill to accurately cut non-ferrous metals vs. most woods
06:10 PM roycroft: i'm guessing it's all about going slow and steady, and keeping the origin centered on the cut line as much as possible
06:29 PM mits5782[m]: yeah
06:30 PM mits5782[m]: I'm talking about how the force to do the initial unseat of the nut is similar to the second force needed to unseat the taper (via unscrewing the nut)
06:30 PM mits5782[m]: and telling me it is self retaining is good... ok
06:42 PM roycroft: they are designed that way, and it's a good design
06:44 PM * JT-Shop calls it a day
07:09 PM * roycroft remembers having a router once that did not have the secondary collet release feature on the nut, and it was dreadful trying to remove the collet and cutter sometimes
07:13 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I had one of those. You had to remember to not bottom out the bit so you could push it in to release the taper. If you bottomed it out and tightened the collet there was much cursing trying to get it out again.
07:52 PM roycroft: yes
07:52 PM roycroft: although bottoming out a router cutter is a bad thing anyway
07:53 PM roycroft: it can expand as it heats up, and elongates slightly, affecting your depth of cut
07:59 PM * roycroft wants to smack people who say, in a thread about the precision of woodworking tools/processes, things like 'wood will move more than that when the humidity changes - there is no need for that kind of precision when working with wood'
08:09 PM skunkworks[m]: lol.. blast from the past..
08:09 PM skunkworks[m]: https://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/Screenshot%20from%202014-10-07%2011:27:48.png
11:41 PM travis_farmer: Morning :-)
11:44 PM roycroft: somewhere it's morning
11:44 PM XXCoder: yep always morning somewhere
11:44 PM roycroft: technically in maine it's morning
11:44 PM roycroft: but practically, it's still party time in maine
11:44 PM XXCoder: im thinking about portable icemaker. you hguys know of good ones below 200 usd?
11:45 PM roycroft: the goodwill, maybe?
11:45 PM XXCoder: hmm something to check. thanks
11:45 PM roycroft: i have one built into my fridge
11:45 PM travis_farmer: we have one, but i think it was over 200
11:45 PM roycroft: this is the first time i've gotten one like that, and i'll never buy one without an icemaker again
11:46 PM XXCoder: me too, but 6 adults its not making ice fast enough
11:46 PM XXCoder: in least not in summers
11:46 PM roycroft: you can probably buy another fridge with an icemaker for less than the cost of a stand-alone icemaker
11:46 PM travis_farmer: the portables make "tube ice" ;-)
11:46 PM roycroft: does that matter?
11:46 PM XXCoder: sure but we dont have room for another ref.
11:46 PM roycroft: it's just as cold, no matter the shape
11:47 PM travis_farmer: yeah, just looks weird ;-)
11:47 PM XXCoder: was thinking this one https://www.homedepot.com/p/Magic-Chef-27-lb-Portable-Countertop-Ice-Maker-in-White-MCIM22W/207050899#overlay
11:47 PM XXCoder: I refuse to buy one of those from amazon
11:48 PM roycroft: i've never seen one like that
11:48 PM travis_farmer: we have an amazon one
11:48 PM roycroft: but i've never looked for one like that
11:48 PM travis_farmer: has no ice tray insulation
11:48 PM XXCoder: yeah from what I read it just recycles ice water
11:49 PM XXCoder: does yours have self clean mode?
11:49 PM travis_farmer: nope
11:50 PM XXCoder: hmm ok. saw some that does
11:50 PM XXCoder: yours is more expensive so it should have one?
11:51 PM travis_farmer: maybe it does, i don't remember. let me check amazon
11:53 PM roycroft: i should imagine that, as a supplementary icemaker, xxcoder's household will probably use the ice from that machine as fast as it can be made
11:53 PM XXCoder: "This unit can be cleaned by running a mixture of 2/3 water and 1/3 vinegar or lemon juice."
11:53 PM roycroft: and turn to the refrigerator ice maker when the tabletop one is empty
11:53 PM XXCoder: answer at one I linked to
11:53 PM XXCoder: roy indeed. 27 pounds a day is a lot
11:53 PM roycroft: so storing it is not a big deal
11:54 PM roycroft: i just read an article by shaper that confirms what i suspected
11:54 PM roycroft: they say the accuracy of the origin depends on the operator
11:55 PM travis_farmer: https://www.amazon.com/BLACK-DECKER-COUNTERTOP-Maker-Machine/dp/B09FPQ7RHQ i must have been remembering another one that was over 200...
11:55 PM roycroft: and that holding 0.010" is typical, and an experienced operator can approach "gantry cnc" accuracy
11:55 PM roycroft: which i'm guessing means 0.003"-0.005" in that context
11:55 PM XXCoder: or it WAS more than 200 but price cuts since. ah it is. it was 192 usd IO guess you got over it by shipping
11:56 PM XXCoder: yours DO have self cleaning
11:57 PM travis_farmer: hmmm, fancier than i thought... :-)
11:57 PM XXCoder: do ice clump?
11:58 PM travis_farmer: yes, the ice has to be broken up now and then
11:58 PM XXCoder: easy or is it like rock
11:58 PM travis_farmer: easy, as like i say, no insulation for ice tray
11:59 PM XXCoder: ok thanks. ill consider getting that brand. I like the self clean stuff
11:59 PM XXCoder: if you havent used it before, id suggest you to dos o