#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 01 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
08:26 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:02 AM JT-Shop: did you get or2 figured out?
09:03 AM perry_j1987: not yet i had some power issues at the shop i ended up having to deal with
09:03 AM perry_j1987: getting ready to head out there soon and go back to it though
09:04 AM perry_j1987: so i was researching the man pages on or2 and it was very cryptic lol what exactly am i suppose to be doing. i have both probes set as digital 00 and 01 etc.
09:06 AM JT-Shop: did you see the example I posted?
09:08 AM perry_j1987: im not sure
09:09 AM perry_j1987: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/hal/hal-examples.html#_connecting_two_outputs ?
09:09 AM JT-Shop: yup
09:09 AM * JT-Shop heads down to the woods to clear some areas out before the heat of the day
09:22 AM Unterhaus_ is now known as Unterhausen
09:31 AM Unterhausen: what's a good wireless mouse? I like my logitech, but the buttons are too easy to press
09:43 AM jpa-: i replaced my mouse buttons with higher actuation force ones
09:48 AM perry_j1987: wait a few more years and get that arthritis built up and it will even out Unterhausen :)
09:53 AM roycroft: i've never found what i would consider a good wireless mouse
09:53 AM roycroft: but that's in large part because my primary workstation is a mac, and macos will not run at all without a mouse, so when the mouse battery dies, the computer is useless until it's recharged
09:54 AM roycroft: that is definitely one of my top five irritations with mac os
09:54 AM perry_j1987: *loves his macbook pro touchpad
09:55 AM roycroft: yeah, the touchpad on my mbp is pretty nice
09:55 AM roycroft: not as sensitive as on a lot of peecees
09:55 AM perry_j1987: they still have never produced a decent trackpad on pc laptops to date
09:55 AM perry_j1987: that's one place where its apple or nothing lol
09:56 AM roycroft: i have an acer whose touchpad i have to be careful not to even look at hard lest it register an inopportune click
09:56 AM perry_j1987: lol
09:56 AM CaptHindsight[m]: the old thinkpad nubs
09:56 AM roycroft: yes
09:56 AM roycroft: i was about to say, for a windows laptop nothing beats the thinkpad nipple
10:07 AM roycroft: and the thinkpad keyboards are really nice, too
10:07 AM CaptHindsight[m]: but we can't have well built laptops since they last too long
10:07 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://openlunchbox.com/smf/index.php?topic=4.0
10:07 AM CloudEvil: https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi-diy-type?variant=17493833285722 on the topic of 'wireless mouse' and thinkpad.
10:07 AM CloudEvil: Currently enjoying mine. Though my variant does not have the bluetooth module.
10:07 AM perry_j1987: try doing cad with that nub
10:07 AM CloudEvil: There is a case for an additional mouse for that sort of thing, yes.
10:07 AM perry_j1987: i love fusion 360 with the macbook pro touchpad
10:07 AM perry_j1987: so effortless
10:09 AM perry_j1987: i've seen those used roycroft but it def looks like something you gotta get use to akin to those roller ball mice in the 90s
10:09 AM roycroft: and it's awkward to use it with my mbp, but i have a dedicated cad worstation now that i use for almost all my cad work
10:09 AM roycroft: yes, it does take getting used to
10:09 AM roycroft: when i bought mine i barely used it for a long time because it was so weird
10:09 AM roycroft: but then i forced myself to use it, and after a few days it became really natural
10:10 AM roycroft: and now i can't do cad work without it
10:10 AM roycroft: well, 2d cad i could do without it, but certainly not 3d
10:10 AM roycroft: it's especially useful when i'm making assemblies
10:10 AM roycroft: it's so easy to move and rotate parts with it
10:13 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51SlggS760L._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg
10:13 AM perry_j1987: thats how i feel about the mbp touchpad heh
10:16 AM roycroft: i still have one of those drafting machines, capthindsight
10:17 AM roycroft: and a bunch of scales and drawing tools to go with it
10:17 AM roycroft: i don't have a drafting table any more, but that would be quick and easy to make, should the need arise
10:17 AM perry_j1987: *engage solar flare
10:17 AM perry_j1987: lol
10:18 AM perry_j1987: *the fate of the future hangs on the shoulders of one man to bring back civilization as we know it. one man and his drafting desk.. can roycroft save the world? tune in to find out next week
10:19 AM roycroft: i used to really enjoy drafting with that machine
10:20 AM roycroft: the only part i did not like was cleaning my rapidograph pens
10:20 AM roycroft: those were a pain in the butt to keep clean
10:20 AM roycroft: especially the really fine ones, like the 0.3mm and 0.35mm
10:25 AM CaptHindsight[m]: is fusion 360 pretty much a rental version of Inventor?
10:26 AM travis_farmer: i have Fusion360 for free... though it is restricted to non-commercial use...
10:27 AM CaptHindsight[m]: using the honor system
10:28 AM travis_farmer: it is cloud storage, so they know what i design with it
10:28 AM Unterhausen: my impression is that fusion isn't as good as inventor
10:28 AM Unterhausen: plus the cloud part of it is really annoying
10:29 AM travis_farmer: i agree, it is annoying
10:29 AM Unterhausen: as in, their servers have to be much more reliable than they are
10:29 AM Unterhausen: the crap commercial users put up with to use it is amazing
10:29 AM CaptHindsight[m]: like blue screens
10:30 AM Unterhausen: never seen that, just doesn't work
10:30 AM CaptHindsight[m]: i hear SW is similar now
10:30 AM travis_farmer: yeah, it crashes frequently...
10:30 AM perry_j1987: i have a startup license for it have access to bunch of extensions and such have not had any issues with it
10:30 AM CaptHindsight[m]: crashes at least daily
10:30 AM perry_j1987: the cam is nice
10:30 AM Unterhausen: never had that problem with SW
10:30 AM Unterhausen: I'm not pushing it very hard though
10:30 AM perry_j1987: i think it crashes on the windows version but my mac version is pretty darn stable
10:31 AM Tom_L: rain has arrived
10:31 AM * travis_farmer decides to run down, and snag something for lunch...
10:33 AM CaptHindsight[m]: is there a qucik turn wire EDM shop somewhere? like protolabs for 3d print and milling/turning
10:34 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.prototek.com/quick-turn-wire-sinker-edm/
10:48 AM Unterhausen: how good is protoworks at cnc machining?
10:51 AM perry_j1987: be nice if there was a bunch of work put into freeCAD and CAM lol
10:51 AM CloudEvil: ++
10:52 AM perry_j1987: but im just over here thinkin crazy thoughts heh
11:02 AM * roycroft won't get into that again :)
11:13 AM perry_j1987: into what? :)
11:20 AM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], https://fathommfg.com/edm-machine-shop
11:40 AM Jym: Unterhausen https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01936N73I/ Though I prefer wired, ALWAYS needs batteries/to be recharged at that critical moment.
11:45 AM Tom_L: they should put a regenerative charger on the ball
11:45 AM Unterhausen: I think I needs a mouse. My logitech batteries last forever and it's bluetooth, so that makes it pretty attractive
11:45 AM Jym: Tom_L Not a bad idea
11:46 AM Unterhausen: maybe the problem is it's a gaming mouse, so they don't care if it's too easy to click
11:46 AM Tom_L: Unterhausen, i like their thumb ball mouse
11:46 AM Tom_L: M570
11:46 AM Unterhausen: I used to have a thumb ball mouse on my mac 30 years ago
11:46 AM Unterhausen: people at work would always hide the ball
11:46 AM Jym: Tom_L When I worked in ATMs, the safe dial had to be turned like 8 times to charge it, then I could enter the combination to open it
11:47 AM Unterhausen: that's a cool idea, might not work so well with a trackball
11:47 AM Jym: Unterhausen Actually, I think it would work quite well, other than you would have to make your own ball
11:48 AM Jym: I've been using Kensington trackballs for 15+ years
11:48 AM travis_farmer: is there a easy and cheap way to convert a signal from a 24Vdc NPN sensor to a 24Vdc PNP sensor?
11:49 AM Jym: travis_farmer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxJM6QiwiBM
11:52 AM solarwind: this "watchmaker's lathe" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKFBgZja06U I assume is built to far higher tolerances than your standard "mini lathe"?
11:52 AM solarwind: I want an HLVH or equivalent so bad
11:53 AM solarwind: Or even better, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFrVdoOhu1Q
11:53 AM solarwind: I really wish he'd dive into the build details of that thing
11:55 AM travis_farmer: Jym: yeah, a relay will work. i didn't think the sensors had tht much load capacity, but maybe with a small enough relay... Thanks :-)
12:00 PM Unterhausen: aerotech gave me a granite surface table and they had some machine beds they were disposing of that looked like the ones on the gelbart lathe
12:00 PM Unterhausen: would have needed a large truck to bring them home though
12:01 PM Unterhausen: the bed of the nanotech machine looks a lot more tractable, it's essentially a surface plate with some raised portions for convenience
12:09 PM roycroft: watchmaker's lathes are odd
12:10 PM roycroft: they are usually made to high tolerances, and most commonly used with collets, but are also very frequently used freehand
12:13 PM Unterhausen: I think what I need is a cheap mouse. One of the amazon mice has bad reviews because it's not too easy to push the buttons
12:17 PM roycroft: i have a dynex 3 button mouse on my imac
12:18 PM roycroft: i've had it for years - i probably paid $20 for it at office depot or $5 for it at the goodwill
12:24 PM travis_farmer: Paypal credit increased my credit limit... don't they realize i have an impulse spending problem??? now i have to resist buying more Mesa boards...
12:26 PM perry_j1987: ok here's what i got so far in my hal. https://pastebin.com/rTVFL6nJ im trying to add these two probes with or2
12:27 PM perry_j1987: i can see both probes trip correctly in hal meter but probe-or-out stays false.
12:27 PM perry_j1987: and likewise motion.probe-input the same
12:28 PM travis_farmer: you forgot "addf or2.0 base-thread"
12:29 PM perry_j1987: whats that do
12:29 PM travis_farmer: activates it with the timer
12:31 PM perry_j1987: good eye
12:31 PM perry_j1987: now its toggling
12:31 PM perry_j1987: ty
12:31 PM travis_farmer: no problem :-)
12:32 PM perry_j1987: now i got a tool height setter perm mounted and triggering and a touch probe that i can put in the spindle and triggers
12:32 PM perry_j1987: now what lol
12:49 PM JT[m]: Make chips
12:58 PM roycroft: and fish
12:58 PM travis_farmer: lol
01:26 PM travis_farmer: ...saved from an impulse buy from Mesa... doesn't take Paypal Credit. both a blessing and a PITA ;-)
01:26 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:31 PM Unterhausen: I'm finding it hard to believe that gentoo has a significant performance advantage over debian
01:31 PM Unterhausen: beyond that achievable with a custom kernel
01:32 PM Jym: Unterhausen Try CentOS sometime
01:33 PM Unterhausen: I did, it's too much of a pita
01:33 PM Jym: Really? how so?
01:33 PM Jym: It has a stupid fast base install.
01:34 PM Unterhausen: it has been years, probably got better
01:35 PM Unterhausen: my comment was addressed to something on the mailing list, which I find hard to believe
01:35 PM Jym: ah ok
01:35 PM roycroft: i've always found debian to be the easiest linux distro for me to install/admin/use, but in large part i think that has to do with what one is accustomed to
01:35 PM Unterhausen: that's true, but at the time I was used to redhat
01:35 PM roycroft: i come from a sysv/bsd world
01:36 PM Unterhausen: so centos shouldn't be much different
01:36 PM roycroft: more bsd than sysv
01:36 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: LOL. Gentoo is the OS equivalent of audiophile level silliness.
01:36 PM roycroft: centos is very close to rh
01:36 PM Jym: You want it fast, good, cheap? Pick any two =)
01:36 PM roycroft: in fact, i have some cisco apps that "only run on redhat"
01:36 PM Jym: CentOS IS RedHat (basically the beta of RH)
01:37 PM Unterhausen: I imagine that cognitive bias and a custom kernel have a lot to do with the perceived performance boost
01:37 PM roycroft: i run them on centos, with an /etc/redhat-release that lies about what it is
01:37 PM roycroft: and the cisco apps run blissfully without any notion that they're being lied to
01:37 PM Jym: Well, custom kernel would do it for sure
01:37 PM Unterhausen: I had some weird industrial computers that were dog slow with a stock kernel, a half hour of building a kernel really sped them up
01:38 PM Unterhausen: I keep thinking about building a kernel for my machines and then I get tired and go take a nap
01:38 PM roycroft: those days are mostly over, unterhausen
01:38 PM roycroft: modern *nix distros have run-time loadable kernel modules and run-time kernel tuning parameters that we did not have in the olden days
01:39 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, I haven't needed to build a kernel in years.
01:39 PM travis_farmer: i used to run CentOS on my server, until it went EOL
01:39 PM Unterhausen: pcw keeps posting about how newer kernels are so much better. Mostly to make us all feel bad, I think
01:40 PM roycroft: or maybe to get y'all to run modern software, so he doesn't have to support his stuff for pre-historic kernels :)
01:40 PM Unterhausen: the newest anyone lcnc related has posted is .1 behind
01:40 PM XXCoder: eh but same time, cnc machines tend to run old software lol
01:41 PM Jym: Unterhausen PCW just teases like that =)
01:41 PM Unterhausen: yes, it's aimed at me specifically, bill gates called him up about it
01:41 PM Jym: Unterhausen BTW... MS-DOS 3.31 is EOL
01:42 PM Jym: so is Lotus 123 and StarOffice
01:42 PM roycroft: so what can i run on my cp/m machines then?
01:42 PM roycroft: i guess i can load a basic interpreter off a cassette tape
01:42 PM Jym: roycroft echo this is my long letter >filename.txt
01:43 PM Unterhausen: lots of old dos programs still available
01:43 PM Unterhausen: the good thing about running dos is nobody is going to pwn your machine
01:43 PM Jym: roycroft I actually have a TEXT2SPEECH program for cp/m around somewhere
01:43 PM Unterhausen: I am not sure why we are talking about EOL, I'm trying to run the latest
01:44 PM Jym: Unterhausen I have a dos router/firewall program that supposerts iptables commands.
01:44 PM roycroft: i still have a copy of pick system for z80 based machines somewhere
01:44 PM Unterhausen: true, you can run anything on dos because it's all bare metal programming. Lots of advantages
01:44 PM roycroft: it
01:44 PM Jym: I STILL use DOS
01:44 PM roycroft: is on 8" floppies
01:45 PM Jym: Unterhausen Yep, real time, not virtual
01:45 PM Jym: roycroft OH? You have a working 8" FDD ?
01:45 PM roycroft: no
01:45 PM Unterhausen: whatever that dos cnc program was is still around
01:45 PM Jym: TurboCNC
01:45 PM roycroft: i did not say i have a z80 machine any more
01:45 PM roycroft: i have the os for it
01:45 PM Jym: ah ok
01:45 PM Unterhausen: he entered it using toggle switches
01:46 PM roycroft: i know where there are some working 8" floppy drives, but you can't get near them without a very high security clearance
01:46 PM Jym: Unterhausen You know, TurboCNC was written in pascal, and they wrote a internall memory manager that supports up to 16MB ram
01:47 PM roycroft: pascal is kind of like c, but with training wheels that you can't remove and a governor to make sure you don't go too fast
01:47 PM travis_farmer: LOL
01:47 PM Jym: ...and I *THINK* I still have a copy or Borland Turbo Pascal somewhere
01:48 PM roycroft: i've gotten rid of most of my old computer gear
01:49 PM roycroft: next time i run aross the pick system floppies i should donate them to a computer/database museum, if i can find one that would like them
01:49 PM roycroft: they're up in my attic somewhere
01:49 PM roycroft: maybe they've melted over the years, but they're probably fine - 8" floppy disks are remarkably robust
01:50 PM travis_farmer: i have a old pentium laptop kicking around somewhere... may be usefull at some point... ;-)
01:50 PM roycroft: i'm pretty sure i don't have my genuine ibm at any more
01:51 PM roycroft: but i do know that i still have some sparcstation 10s and 20s in the attic
01:51 PM roycroft: i was the only reseller in the world for bsd-os/sparc back in the '90s
01:52 PM roycroft: and their only direct customer for their sparc version was uunet
01:52 PM roycroft: most folks don't even know that they ported it to sparc
02:07 PM CloudEvil: :)
02:14 PM norias: there was a point in time where i really wanted
02:14 PM norias: a laptop with a risc chip
02:14 PM norias: and a unixish OS
02:15 PM norias: I ended up with a Mac with a G3 and OS X
02:17 PM XXCoder: i still have linuxcnc pc. its 20 years old now lol. and acer one laptop. it was first laptop to be sold with linux and ssd
02:25 PM roycroft: my mac laptops started with a powermac g4
02:25 PM roycroft: er
02:25 PM roycroft: powerbook g4
02:25 PM roycroft: i also had a powermac g4
02:27 PM roycroft: i have an imac g3 that was given to me - it is in mint condition
02:27 PM roycroft: it was one of the "jelly" imacs
02:28 PM roycroft: the machine is useless right now, as the mac os is so old that it won't connect to modern mail servers or web servers
02:29 PM roycroft: but i could probably install linux mint or something on it
03:05 PM Unterhausen: I got rid of most of my old computers, including one that now regularly sells on ebay for $500
03:05 PM Unterhausen: although someone copied the motherboard and sells them on ebay
03:11 PM roycroft: i still have a mint condition vt320 that i know where it is
03:12 PM roycroft: i need to take some pics and post it on ebay - they go for about $400, if the keyboard is included (which it is)
03:14 PM roycroft: i almost don't want to sell stuff on ebay any more
03:15 PM roycroft: with the new requirement that they have to 1099 me if i sell over $600 in a year
03:15 PM roycroft: i don't want to have to pay taxes on stuff that i've already paid taxes on and and am selling for less than i paid for the stuff
03:16 PM roycroft: and i either don't have or don't have the time to find the receipts for the stuff i need to sell
04:11 PM FinboySlick: Just done assembling the plastic-pooper-3000
04:12 PM travi__ is now known as travis_farmer
06:18 PM roycroft: another day, another pair of computer glasses that are not the correct prescription
06:19 PM XXCoder: I really need to update mine.
06:19 PM roycroft: i've lost count now, but this is the sixth or seventh set of lenses they've made for me
06:19 PM roycroft: i've been trying to get this done since early march
06:20 PM Tom_L: wrong focal length?
06:20 PM roycroft: yes
06:21 PM Tom_L: i wish i'd have gotten mine about 6" further out
06:21 PM roycroft: and i'm at a loss to figure out how to get them to understand what i need
06:21 PM roycroft: these are bifocals
06:21 PM Tom_L: i tried those and hated them
06:21 PM roycroft: i use them for my computer work
06:21 PM roycroft: the upper part is correct for the computer screens
06:21 PM Tom_L: i have a pair but the transition is too low
06:21 PM roycroft: the lower part is for reading papers on my desk
06:21 PM roycroft: but it's too strong
06:22 PM roycroft: i have to pick the papers up off my desk to read them
06:22 PM roycroft: i keep telling them that the upper part is fine
06:22 PM roycroft: and the lower part needs to be the same power as my reading glasses
06:22 PM Tom_L: measure the distance and have them set it that way
06:23 PM roycroft: what i think they're doing is adding the reading correction to the rx for the upper halv
06:23 PM roycroft: half
06:23 PM roycroft: but the upper part already has some power added
06:23 PM Tom_L: he literally had me hold my arm out and tell him how far to set it on mine
06:23 PM roycroft: i've done that
06:23 PM roycroft: i've also said "the uppper part is perfect. use the exact same power as the reading glasses you just made me for the lower part"
06:24 PM XXCoder: hopefully youre not paying for all those?
06:25 PM roycroft: no
06:25 PM roycroft: other than the hours of my time and all the round-trips to the eye doctor's
06:25 PM roycroft: speaking of which, i'm going to go back right now and deal with this
06:26 PM XXCoder: fun. hope they get it right.