#linuxcnc Logs
May 26 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:23 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:51 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:56 AM Deejay: moin
02:10 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
02:10 AM Loetmichel: *MEH* Watched a Testris video this morning. Now i have that song stuck in my head. *whistle* *sing* :)
02:10 AM XXCoder: thats one of few times im happy with being deaf lol
02:11 AM XXCoder: of course flip side is cant do anything about tinnitus.
02:11 AM XXCoder: (thankfully I dont have it, but had it once)
02:11 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: reminds me of an old german song. "Sie mag musik nur wenn sie laut is denn dann vergisst sie daß sie taub ist!"
02:13 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/musik-nur-wenn-sie-laut-ist-music-only-if-its-loud.html
02:14 AM XXCoder: ph boy lol
02:15 AM Loetmichel: oh boy indeed. 1983... is that song really THAT old?
02:16 AM Loetmichel: <- can still remember when that was in the charts the first time.
02:19 AM XXCoder: fun
03:01 AM travis_farmer[m]: Morning ☕️
04:40 AM Tom_L: morning
04:54 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:54 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:42 AM JT-Cave: rooster just crowed
06:12 AM JT-Cave: 57°F high 75°F
09:01 AM Kevin`: I have a machine that's running linuxcnc 2.7.14 + debian 7 rtai, but I want to keep it connected to a network and install software on it. any high level tips or gachas for getting this updated to something security supported?
09:17 AM CaptHindsight[m]: you have a choice between security and running LCNC :)
09:22 AM Kevin`: partial issue there is I don't have a mirror snapshot of debian from 2018, so would need to figure out debian's oldstuff mirrors again, if they are still maintained
09:23 AM Kevin`: used to.. could have.. just forgot about this machine's version when deleting stuff
09:23 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, I don't think it is practical to keep a CNC controller up to date with patches without a lot of work. We still have machines running winNT at work because we can't justify the 500k to replace the equipment. Best practice is to have them on an isolated network with a gateway machine to transfer files.
09:24 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You would essentially have to upgrade to the latest linuxcnc release and then keep that up to date. I don't think you can secure a system running 2.7.14 given the age of the kernel.
09:25 AM Kevin`: most important thing it does on the network is ssh for transferring files. probably some way to manually keep that current..ish. builds tend to break after too long though
09:25 AM JT-Shop: my CHNC still runs Ubuntu 10.10
09:26 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I use a fileserver and mount a shared drive on the cnc machines. There is just a pinhole between the vlans for the cnc systems and the rest of the network to allow the fileserver access.
09:27 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The cnc machines do not connect to the internet (web or other services).
09:28 AM CaptHindsight[m]: [Kevin](https://matrix.to/#/@Kevin:libera.chat): do you really need RTAI?
09:28 AM Kevin`: probably don't need rtai, since i'm using fpga stepping, but I have not tried without it
09:30 AM CaptHindsight[m]: Mesa FPGA?
09:30 AM Kevin`: yes
09:30 AM CaptHindsight[m]: ok so you don't need RTAI
09:31 AM CaptHindsight[m]: PCI/e card?
09:31 AM CaptHindsight[m]: the Ethernet versions don't even run on RTAI
09:32 AM Kevin`: 6i25+7i76
09:32 AM Kevin`: pcie
09:35 AM CaptHindsight[m]: you can run preemp_rt
09:37 AM Kevin`: can linuxcnc run on debian bullseye?
09:37 AM CaptHindsight[m]: yes
09:38 AM Kevin`: ah nice, that would give me few more years before next doing something like this
09:38 AM CaptHindsight[m]: even Sid but with Sid issues
09:39 AM roguish[m]: [Kevin](https://matrix.to/#/@Kevin:libera.chat): Bullseye is ok. that's what I run on .... with the master branch
09:39 AM CaptHindsight[m]: or Bookworm
09:53 AM CaptHindsight[m]: ever notice how companies that complain about a worker shortage are actually suffering from a pay shortage?
09:54 AM CaptHindsight[m]: I saw a CNC machinist job posting yesterday that pays less per hour than a gas station attendant
10:06 AM Kevin`: the computer does all the hard work, right? =p
10:15 AM Tom_L: machines probe the tools, material block & part when it's done. all they need is someone to push the 'go' button
10:26 AM JT-Shop: you mean they can't automate that?
10:26 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have heard more that one small business owner complain that they can't get workers and in the next sentence say that if they pay what the labor market demands, they won't make as much money. I usually laugh at them and ask if that isn't how the free market is supposed to work? Low supply and high demand equals high cost. If you can't make money if you pay people a living wage then your business is broken and you are relying on
10:26 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: handouts from the government/society to stay afloat.
10:26 AM Tom_L: someone still has to load the material afik
10:27 AM Tom_L: the first company my kids worked at didn't pay that well and it showed in their labor force
10:27 AM Tom_L: some didn't know anything about their job
10:28 AM Tom_L: 2nd place is a whole different environment
10:29 AM Tom_L: even so, it _was_ a good 1st job for them
10:36 AM JT-Shop: they both work for the same place?
10:37 AM Tom_L: not now but they did at the first job
10:38 AM Tom_L: one got tired of the covid layoffs and was paid to learn HVAC
10:38 AM Tom_L: now he works in an engineering test lab for HVAC
10:38 AM Tom_L: the other one is running those machines i showed you
10:39 AM JT-Shop: cool
10:39 AM Tom_L: likes that place alot better
10:39 AM JT-Shop: going to Chaumette Vineyards for our 36th today
10:39 AM Tom_L: congrats
10:39 AM JT-Shop: thanks
10:41 AM JT-Shop: I had a C2110 RR TPM Sensor code a couple of weeks ago, replaced the TPM Sensor and trained them all and got the same code the other day again...
10:41 AM Tom_L: we went to an open house at Johnson Controls which was very cool
10:41 AM JT-Shop: I'd bet that was cool
10:41 AM Tom_L: got to see the test cells etc they run the units thru
10:41 AM Tom_L: some were froze in blocks of ice etc
10:41 AM JT-Shop: True stopped building their plant here after the parking lot was done
10:42 AM Tom_L: had a hurricane test cell
10:42 AM Tom_L: interesting since it was different than the cnc stuff i'm used to seeing
10:42 AM JT-Shop: I guess the current management has the country so screwed up no one want's to build factories
10:42 AM Tom_L: gonna be hard to fix
10:43 AM JT-Shop: I got to tour a lighting manufacturing plant years ago, they still did forming on a lathe for the bell shaped lights
10:43 AM Tom_L: automated?
10:43 AM JT-Shop: yep
10:43 AM Tom_L: or just skill
10:44 AM JT-Shop: operator just went from lathe to lathe loading blanks
10:44 AM JT-Shop: he said it's much easier than the old days and he was pretty old
10:44 AM Tom_L: kinda like your wood guy does now that you were there :)
10:44 AM JT-Shop: yup
10:45 AM Tom_L: so, is it blue yet or still raw material?
10:46 AM Tom_L: i was kinda wondering how long the paint actually takes to cure
10:47 AM JT-Shop: it's a done deal for sure and sitting in QA
10:47 AM JT-Shop: my buddy from revere went on an interview at the same dealership I'm getting the C8 from
10:47 AM JT-Shop: I bet they hire him
10:47 AM Tom_L: service?
10:48 AM JT-Shop: maintenance
10:48 AM Tom_L: i'd make a horrid salesman
10:48 AM JT-Shop: I can't even imagine the life of a car salesman right now
10:48 AM Tom_L: they were sure happy to see me
10:49 AM Tom_L: well, one was
10:49 AM JT-Shop: I bet
10:49 AM Tom_L: we went in and walked past a group of them just shooting the bull and he came up being the new guy and won the deal
10:49 AM JT-Shop: there are so many dealers still trying to gouge customers with inflated prices
10:49 AM Tom_L: i think the others were a little pissed since we went out with 2
10:50 AM JT-Shop: oh well you snooze you loose
10:50 AM Tom_L: kinda how i look at it
10:51 AM Tom_L: i usually dress down going to those places to weed out the sharks
10:51 AM Tom_L: dunno if it helps or not but..
10:51 AM JT-Shop: I dress casual so some don't pay attention
10:51 AM JT-Shop: exactly
10:51 AM Tom_L: yeah
10:52 AM JT-Shop: at Autry Morlen no one has ignored me when I show up and everyone is friendly even if they don't know me
10:52 AM Tom_L: i pegged the owner right away.. he was watching us in the background the whole time
10:52 AM JT-Shop: lol
10:52 AM JT-Shop: watching the new guy?
10:53 AM Tom_L: no i think he was watching us
10:53 AM Tom_L: he'd already made sales of the month or something..
10:53 AM JT-Shop: the new guy?
10:53 AM Tom_L: yeah
10:54 AM Tom_L: i dunno how long he'd been there but he was low on the pole
10:54 AM JT-Shop: I assume in that line of work you never pass up an opportunity to speak to a customer
10:55 AM Tom_L: well the others did as we walked right past the group
10:56 AM JT-Shop: Phil, the guy that has the GM Order Desk on his desk said it's a good chance he can track Jack Cooper and let me know when it arrives
10:56 AM JT-Shop: that would be so cool...
10:56 AM Tom_L: yeah
10:57 AM JT-Shop: well time to start locking up and getting ready to leave
10:58 AM Tom_L: have fun
10:58 AM Tom_L: gotta go here soon too
11:09 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:53 AM roycroft: i must have moved
11:53 AM roycroft: i've been getting "welcome to comcast" spam calls for a very long time, ususally several per day
11:53 AM roycroft: now i'm getting "congratulations! now spectrum offers" spam calls
12:27 PM Unterhaus__: my phone decided that I didn't want an audio call
12:45 PM roycroft: that would be nice
12:50 PM Unterhaus__: especially frustrating when you want to talk to someone and it decides the person is deaf
01:00 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (472KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/mJWrBdhzmeaaAhSGSeUfliLW/20230526_125951.jpg >
01:46 PM skunkworks[m]: wow - that looks very much like the winery we have here.
01:46 PM skunkworks[m]: with the bluffs in the back ground
01:48 PM JT[m]: Chaumette Vinyard
01:49 PM JT[m]: I won't post a photo of the dinner
01:55 PM skunkworks[m]: lol
02:16 PM Tom_L: do you have to pick your own grapes for next visit?
02:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: DIY winery
02:59 PM roycroft: well, i'm becoming convinced that engraving woods with significant differences in hardness between the annual rings and the heartwood/sapwood is very difficult if one wishes to have the engraved portion evenly colored
02:59 PM roycroft: the borax solution helped somewhat with ash, but there was still a big difference between the annual rings and the heartwood
03:00 PM roycroft: it all engraved evenly in depth, though, so i'm trying what i was hoping to avoid - filling the engraved area with paint
03:39 PM Kevin`: IMO try something like a conservative metal cutting recipe on it - low spindle speed, calculated chipload, etc (for no heat)
03:40 PM Kevin`: thinking, just like how such things will happily cut through your clamps without affecting surface finish, should handle different woods as well
03:41 PM roycroft: oh, sorry, i should have added the proper context - most folks know what i'm doing, but not all
03:41 PM roycroft: i'm laser engraving
03:42 PM roycroft: i thought that ash had enough tannin to burn evenly, but apparently tannin content is not that much of a factor
03:42 PM roycroft: it's resins/sugars that make for a good burn pattern
03:43 PM XXCoder: nice photo jt
03:43 PM Kevin`: nfc on that, aside from making sure you are using enough power to vaporize instead of burn. even that is gonna be different depth on different materials though
03:43 PM roycroft: yes, i'm making test cards for each material
03:44 PM roycroft: the new laser head is able to cut through 5mm birch plywood in 2 passes, which is fine
03:44 PM roycroft: i don't intend to do much cutting with the machine - primarily i'll be engraving
03:45 PM roycroft: but it is nice to know i can cut when i need to
03:45 PM XXCoder: nice. 5mm is nice for many fairly flat 3d cutouts for assembly and such
03:45 PM XXCoder: or fun wood puzzle
03:45 PM roycroft: yeah
03:45 PM roycroft: and i'm sure i'll doing things with it that i had not planned on doing
03:46 PM XXCoder: world map using different woods, assembled and glued, then turned into puzzle lol
03:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: what wavelength is the new laser?
03:47 PM roycroft: 450nm
04:00 PM roycroft: oh great - i must have moved back to eugene
04:00 PM roycroft: i just got a 'welcome to comcast' spam call
04:28 PM XXCoder: maybe theyre trying to gaslight you on location where you are ;)
06:35 PM XXCoder: amazing heirage machining drafting video
06:35 PM XXCoder: man its insane. 20 hours of work. I cant do it lol
06:52 PM Tom_L: did it that way in HS
06:52 PM Tom_L: no PC back then
06:53 PM Tom_L: first HP calc came out then
06:53 PM XXCoder: nice
06:54 PM Tom_L: still have the old drafting tools
06:54 PM Tom_L: i lost my slide rule though
06:54 PM XXCoder: i had slide rules from dad. lost them since :(
06:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: how about a monogrammed pocket protector?
06:59 PM Tom_L: never had one of those
07:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I wish I had some of my dads old drafting equipment
07:03 PM Tom_L: i have the compass set angle set hole template and a few other shapes
07:03 PM Tom_L: never had a table
07:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://neal.fun/perfect-circle/
07:06 PM XXCoder: 88.6
07:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he won some drafting competition in the army after WWII, you had to copy some drawing with just a pencil and straightedge
07:06 PM Tom_L: suck with a mouse... 87.5
07:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and improvise for curves and circles, like use your shoestrings to draw circles
07:07 PM XXCoder: 94.7
07:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: just a mouse?
07:07 PM Tom_L: 92
07:07 PM XXCoder: yeah
07:10 PM XXCoder: honestly most of my attempts suck lol
07:11 PM Tom_L: see if you're any better counterclockwise
07:11 PM Tom_L: cause the natural way to draw is clockwise
07:11 PM Tom_L: why is that?
07:12 PM XXCoder: you focus on it more due to not of habit
07:15 PM Tom_L: if i'm drawing a one off part usually i'll grab a scrap paper and draw it out by hand
07:40 PM XXCoder: yeah makes sense if it wont ever be made again
08:08 PM roycroft: for me it depends on the complexity of the part
08:08 PM roycroft: i'll often do a quick hand sketch, and sometimes do a partial cad drawing
08:08 PM roycroft: for one-off parts
10:19 PM roycroft: i got a scary catalog in the mail today, from yardstorew
10:19 PM roycroft: "aircraft sheet metal tools"
10:19 PM Tom_L: that's a local company here
10:20 PM Tom_L: odd you would get one
10:20 PM roycroft: yeah, they're in wichita
10:20 PM roycroft: and i don't think it's that oddd
10:20 PM roycroft: they have figured me out :)
10:20 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/stock_index.php
10:20 PM Tom_L: that's where i get my stuff
10:21 PM roycroft: i may have ordered something from them in the past
10:21 PM Tom_L: they have 2 locations
10:21 PM roycroft: i don't remember, but skimming through the catalog it's quite plausible
10:21 PM Tom_L: one is tools and the other is what you see there
10:22 PM roycroft: i've bought a number of tools/instruments from aircraft spruce
10:22 PM Tom_L: used to be alot of boeing surplus stuff but that's all been gone for a while now
10:22 PM Tom_L: before boeing left here they also had a surplus yard
10:22 PM roycroft: it looks like a good place to go for stock
10:23 PM Tom_L: now spirit contracts their tubes from here
10:23 PM Tom_L: so we still make them
10:23 PM roycroft: it's similar to coyote steel, where i get most of my metal stock
10:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/9.jpg
10:25 PM Tom_L: need some round bar?
10:27 PM roycroft: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0613391,-123.1231289,3a,75y,172.43h,85.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syKTbLZBf_bE79AWUYHTaOg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
10:28 PM roycroft: if that works, it's a google street map in front of their surplus yard
10:28 PM XXCoder: looks like far off and not well maintained roads warehouses area
10:28 PM roycroft: it's actually fairly close to downtown eugene
10:29 PM Tom_L: familiar look
10:29 PM XXCoder: surpising
10:29 PM Tom_L: ours isn't much different
10:29 PM roycroft: it's not the best stocked metal yard, but i usually find most of what i need there
10:29 PM Tom_L: the steel scrap i went to sold out
10:29 PM Tom_L: right after i got the steel for the mill
10:32 PM roycroft: i live on the west end of eugene
10:32 PM roycroft: coyote steel is about 2/3 of the way from my house to the heart of downtown
10:33 PM roycroft: but you have to remember that we're a city of 275,000, not a half a million or more
10:33 PM Tom_L: i lucked out that one day i got the plate as some company had just dumped off a bunch of brand new scrap
10:34 PM Tom_L: the piece i had picked prior to that was all rusted
10:35 PM roycroft: i've bought a lot of rusty steel
10:35 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Z_Column2.jpg
10:35 PM Tom_L: that was the rusted piece i replaced
10:35 PM roycroft: and most of my metal stock is in a rack that's outside my fabrication shop
10:35 PM XXCoder: man that was while ago
10:35 PM roycroft: it's all oiled, but the steel still rusts over time
10:35 PM roycroft: i know how to make it not rusty
10:36 PM roycroft: none of that is badly rusted, tom_l
10:36 PM roycroft: just annoyingly rusted
10:36 PM Tom_L: i know
10:36 PM XXCoder: wouldnt cheap paint be quick protection
10:36 PM Tom_L: the other piece was brand new though
10:37 PM XXCoder: probably annoying to remove
10:37 PM roycroft: yeah, i would not do that
10:37 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Column_Supports1.jpg
10:37 PM Tom_L: i used part of it as a flat surface while working on it
10:37 PM roycroft: i am thinking of protecting the metal rack from the weather, though
10:38 PM Tom_L: i think it's about 5/16"
10:38 PM roycroft: i don't mind a bit of surface rust, but i don't want all the stock getting deeply pitted
10:40 PM * roycroft got some rhubarb today, and is going to make a strawberry rhubarb pie tomorrow
10:41 PM Tom_L: never acquired a taste for rhubarb
10:41 PM Tom_L: my grandmother grew it and made pies
10:45 PM roycroft: it's delicious
10:45 PM roycroft: but quit tart
10:45 PM roycroft: quite
10:46 PM XXCoder: nice. i want to get some but I dont feel like going yet
10:46 PM XXCoder: headache heavier than usual
10:46 PM roycroft: the strawberries help balance that, although some think that strawberries in rhubarb pie is sacrilege
10:47 PM XXCoder: meh if its yummy then its yummy