#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 01 2023

12:22 AM CaptHindsight[m]: JT$#3196: it was tongue in cheek anyway
12:33 AM CaptHindsight[m]: I skimmed through some cutting tool videos earlier and realized that not one of them violated any laws of physics
12:37 AM XXCoder: capt nice. too bad I lack in basically everything to bring it in, room, and will and skillto finish it lol
12:59 AM Deejay: moin
01:03 AM daight420[m]: tryin to install linux cnc on my raspberry pi 4 4 gig model not having any luck when booting i get an error saying cpu 0 not supported
01:03 AM daight420[m]: any clue on what going on? ive done this before
01:42 AM jpa-: daight420[m]: does the line say "kvm" on it? it may be a false clue, just a note about virtualization not supporting it
01:43 AM daight420[m]: yes it does
01:48 AM jpa-: yeah, i think that error message probably has no effect for linuxcnc use
01:48 AM jpa-: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/37231-raspberry-pi-4-tutorial-fatal-error?start=130 some more info here
01:59 AM daight420[m]: problem is connection just fies and dosent do anything
01:59 AM daight420[m]: sd is good im running normal pi os rn
01:59 AM daight420[m]: trying long version install
02:26 AM daight420[m]: is linux cnc going anywhere with raspberry pi? this seems equally as bad as i remember over a year ago
02:45 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning ☕️
04:31 AM Tom_L: morning
04:46 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:46 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:28 AM DJDaved[m]: I have got it working tried a couple of stuff and when tried an external screen it said the CPU error thingy but when I connected to it on my computer I was able to access it and start up linuxcnc
05:29 AM DJDaved[m]: With vnc viewer
05:45 AM travis_farmer[m]: Mmmm, nothing says morning like a big hot blueberry muffin, slathered in butter :-)
06:38 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, you get my note?
06:42 AM JT-Cave: no
07:48 AM unterhausen: the sd card image for Pi4 on the lcnc site doesn't work on newer pi's. I got it installed using JT's install instructions
07:49 AM unterhausen: newer pi possibly means up to 2 years old, I'm not exactly sure
07:58 AM perry_j1987: no one has a pi 4 they are impossible to get :P
09:44 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:51 AM bjorkintosh: I have one. i'm using it as a pihole
09:51 AM saquzi: Can someone guide me about how to change spindle analog drive voltage from -10-10v to 0-10v.. current hal file according to spindle
09:51 AM saquzi: #*******************
09:51 AM saquzi: # SPINDLE
09:51 AM saquzi: #*******************
09:51 AM saquzi: loadrt scale count=1
09:51 AM saquzi: addf scale.0 servo-thread
09:51 AM saquzi: setp scale.0.gain 0.00166
09:51 AM saquzi: net spindle-speed-scale spindle.0.speed-out => scale.0.in
09:51 AM saquzi: net spindle-speed-DAC scale.0.out => hm2_7i97.0.pwmgen.05.value
09:51 AM saquzi: setp   pid.s.Pgain     [SPINDLE_0]P
09:51 AM saquzi: setp   pid.s.Igain     [SPINDLE_0]I
09:51 AM saquzi: setp   pid.s.Dgain     [SPINDLE_0]D
09:51 AM bjorkintosh: oh I lied. it's a pi 3 b+
09:51 AM saquzi: setp   pid.s.bias      [SPINDLE_0]BIAS
09:51 AM saquzi: setp   pid.s.FF0       [SPINDLE_0]FF0
09:51 AM saquzi: setp   pid.s.FF1       [SPINDLE_0]FF1
09:51 AM saquzi: setp   pid.s.FF2       [SPINDLE_0]FF2
09:51 AM saquzi: setp   pid.s.deadband [SPINDLE_0]DEADBAND
09:51 AM saquzi: setp   pid.s.maxoutput [SPINDLE_0]MAX_OUTPUT
09:51 AM saquzi: setp   pid.s.error-previous-target true
09:52 AM saquzi: net spindle-vel-fb-rps         => spindle.0.speed-in
09:52 AM saquzi: net spindle-index-enable      <=> spindle.0.index-enable
09:52 AM bjorkintosh: saquzi, use a pastebin.. https://pastebin.com/
09:55 AM saquzi: thanks, always wondered if there is a better way. accident already happened but: https://pastebin.com/kd1pq0QS
09:57 AM pcw-home: you don't need scale
09:58 AM pcw-home: (the scale component)
09:59 AM pcw-home: you would scale the spindle output with pwm scale
09:59 AM * travis_farmer[m] is currently setting up a deb 11, lcnc 2.9 pre1 system for double checking configs BEFORE running them on the production machine :-)
10:00 AM pcw-home: for 0 to +10V you would choose the -abs spindle speed command rather than the signed spindle speed command
10:03 AM pcw-home: (spindle.0.speed-out-abs)
10:04 AM pcw-home: so no scale comp needed (scale with PWM scale) and use spindle.0.speed-out-abs
10:07 AM pcw-home: and no reason to ever use RPS with spindles (always scaled in RPM)
10:08 AM saquz1: yes the rps came somewhere from pnconf couldnt get rid of it..
10:08 AM saquz1: where and how insert the pwm scale?
10:12 AM pcw-home: You can get rid of it (and the scale component)
10:13 AM pcw-home: because encoders provide both RPM and RPS
10:14 AM pcw-home: I think pwm scale is set with OUTPUT_SCALE in the SPINDLE_0 section of the INI file
10:14 AM pcw-home: (with pncconf created configurations)
10:15 AM pcw-home: this can be verified by looking in the hal file
10:16 AM pcw-home: (and you can always ignore the INI file settings and set it directly in the hal file)
10:16 AM saquz1: what if want to run first in open loop without feedback from servo drive? spidle has one pulse per revolution and needs to be investigated how to get it to work.. But maybe i try to get the feedback to work first
10:18 AM saquz1: ill investigate the spindle servo/spindle encoder input which i should be using first and try to get it to work
10:26 AM unterhausen: You can get a pi4, you just have to get to the honest suppliers when they get a shipment. Adafruit and parallax seem to be the most common suppliers that sell at retail and have stock
10:27 AM unterhausen: My newer pi was from just before the shortage and the image on the website says cpu not supported
10:29 AM unterhausen: The lcnc on pi situation is bad right now mostly because the move to python 3
10:33 AM pcw-home: the way pncconf is setup you can do open/closed loop with only PID changes
10:34 AM pcw-home: (default spindle PID settings are FF0=1 and everything else is 0, this is open loop)
10:55 AM saquz1: im missing something.. either i have +-10 control OR it it only -10 at the speed drive output
10:59 AM saquzi: https://pastebin.com/ywXRkVjs
11:00 AM saquz1: when it is +-10 it works something like it should but just need to get it 0-10
12:31 PM JT3196[m]: Does this seem like the correct way to setup a hal file for EC and (showing one axis of 2)
12:31 PM * JT3196[m] uploaded an image: (278KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/lnpqKFshiLaxVKDrmfuucIQV/image.png >
12:48 PM rmu: unterhaus_: what is the problem with python 3 on rpi
12:48 PM unterhaus_: there isn't a problem, but it seems like some things haven't been updated
12:48 PM rmu: what is "some things"?
12:49 PM unterhaus_: it's been so long since I made that comment
12:49 PM rmu: nevermind
12:50 PM roycroft: so by "some things" you mean "your brain"? :)
12:50 PM unterhaus_: I forget what the last thing I saw that works on pc and not on pi, it wasn't that long ago though
12:53 PM unterhaus_: also the image that's on lcnc.org should probably be removed since it doesnt' work on a large number of pi4
12:54 PM unterhaus_: I was addressing the comment that nothing has changed in a year. Lots of things have changed and some setup may require user intervention instead of thought-free clicking on things
01:01 PM roguish[m]1: roycroft: what brand drawer slides do you like? Accuglide or Blum ??? or what???
01:01 PM sensille: it would be great to be able to define that the area around the tool sensor can only be entered when abs z=0, and only at a low feedrate
01:03 PM jpa-: sensille: you can make comparisons on axis positions and connect that to feedrate override or even stop
01:04 PM sensille: isn't that too late? it might to have to slow down in advance
01:05 PM roguish[m]1: sensille: you could probably write your own comp to handle that. 'define a stayout area'
01:05 PM unterhaus_: blum are great, price went up a lot and the supply was non-existent for a while
01:05 PM unterhaus_: accuglide are solid, I think I would go with a knock-off because of price
01:06 PM jpa-: sensille: why? don't most machines stop in 10 mm or less?
01:07 PM unterhaus_: blum prices are still double what they were a few years ago. Check for local suppliers though
01:07 PM roguish[m]1: unterhaus_: saw the accuglide at Rockler. figure they're ok. Blum look way to fancy and pricey.
01:08 PM unterhaus_: tbh, I probably will get blum knockoffs next time I need slides
01:08 PM roguish[m]1: I like simple, and robust. I don't mind oversizing in the load carrying rating.
01:09 PM unterhaus_: blum is generally very easy to install. The side mount slides take precision and effort
01:10 PM unterhaus_: but I have only used one set of the undermount blums
01:10 PM sensille: jpa-: ok, 20mm in my case
01:11 PM jpa-: oh, very low acceleration?
01:12 PM sensille: somewhat. 1000mm/s^2
01:13 PM sensille: could probably go a bit higher, but it can already shake the table when hitting the from frequency
01:13 PM sensille: s/from/right
01:14 PM jpa-: quite high actually, but i guess you are driving very fast them
01:15 PM roycroft: i get cheap drawer slides from woodstock supply, and they work great
01:15 PM jpa-: but yeah, just need a large enough "speed limited zone" around hazards then
01:17 PM sensille: would be nice to inject that before the motion planner
01:18 PM jpa-: one way could also be to hook into the g-code preview parser, and give warning if the preview path has hazards
01:18 PM roycroft: i got some no-name ones from amazon for my most recent project that needed a lot of them:
01:18 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/07_Assembled_Cabinets.jpeg
01:18 PM roycroft: those worked out great
01:20 PM sensille: and also hook into the jogging, that probably isn't that hard
01:21 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086RJLRJH
01:21 PM roycroft: that's what i used
01:21 PM roycroft: soft-close would have been nice, but would have doubled the cost, and with the quantity that i needed, that would really be expensive
01:22 PM roycroft: the provided screws are useless, but all provided screws are useless everywhere
01:34 PM unterhaus_: when I did my under-saw cabinet, I used soft close slides from Home Depot. They were only a few $ more per slide
01:34 PM roycroft: i like using euroscrews for attaching drawer slides to mdf or plywood carcases, and i get the best prices on euroscrews from woodstocksupply.com
01:34 PM roycroft: i can't afford home depot prices on cabinet hardware
01:34 PM roycroft: you must be rich
01:35 PM unterhaus_: yeah, it was unwise
01:35 PM roycroft: the ones i linked to were $64.99 for ten pair, with free shipping
01:35 PM unterhaus_: I didn't have nearly as many slides as your project, I would have gotten them from amazon
01:36 PM roycroft: and those were 24", which is an odd size
01:36 PM unterhaus_: I suffer from analysis paralysis with slides from amazon
01:36 PM roycroft: 22"/560mm is the most common size, as it's perfect for standard 24" deep cabinets
01:36 PM roycroft: and the 22" ones are quite a bit cheaper than any other size
01:37 PM unterhaus_: 24" must have been common for rack mount, that's where my slide collection came from
01:37 PM unterhaus_: of course, when I wanted to use some, I needed the 22" so I had to buy them
01:38 PM unterhaus_: also, I have mostly rack mount non-ball bearing slides
01:52 PM rmu: sensille: create a "box" around your tool sensor, compare coordinates if they are inside the box, and slow down / hold feed / stop. make box big enough so machine can stop
01:53 PM rmu: hooking it into the trajectory planner will be very complicated
02:48 PM roycroft: i'm really thinking about getting a fairly cheap laser on a tripod to see if that works out for branding things
02:48 PM roycroft: like $250 one
02:48 PM roycroft: i just don't want to spend $1k+ on a laser right now
02:49 PM roycroft: i'm thinking that since all i'll be doing is burning a logo onto wood, a cheap one might work out ok
02:49 PM roycroft: i can always upgrade later
02:49 PM unterhaus_: what vinyl cutter did you get?
02:50 PM roycroft: velbon is the brand, i think
02:50 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Just make sure you have good laser rated goggles. Most of the cheap ones are a laser safety nightmare. God help you if you try to use one in an industrial setting.
02:50 PM XXCoder: zinc and often wrong NM peak protection
02:50 PM XXCoder: i got green goggle with my blue laser cheapie engraver
02:50 PM XXCoder: i threw that away and get yellow goggle
02:50 PM roycroft: no, vevor
02:51 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09FLHBR1B/
02:51 PM roycroft: but that reminds me
02:51 PM roycroft: maybe i should get the $1k laser anyway
02:51 PM roycroft: and hope it's missing a $0.50 part, so that amazon will give it to me for free
02:51 PM roycroft: that worked out well with the vinyl cutter
02:52 PM roycroft: zincboy: i already got some real laser rated goggles
02:52 PM roycroft: i won't say i'm paranoid about putting my eye out, but i am aware of how easy it would be to do so
02:52 PM roycroft: and i'd rather avoid that situation
02:53 PM roycroft: the vevor comes with some bundled windows software that works ok
02:53 PM roycroft: but it talks hpgl, so almost anything should be able to drive it
02:54 PM roycroft: zincboy: i'm thinking of getting something like a laserpecker 1, which would be scary as hell in a multi-person shop environment, but for a single person shop, it could work out ok as a starter unit
02:56 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/Engraver-Machines-LaserPecker-Engraving-Protective/dp/B08K8ZTZ6R
02:59 PM roycroft: i should figure out what frequency would be best for what i'm going to do
03:35 PM JT[m]: Unplugged starlink and routed cable through the attic. Now it says checking for obstructions 6 hours remaining wtf
03:35 PM Tom_L: hope this doesn't end up being round 2
03:38 PM XXCoder: ugh yeah
03:42 PM unterhaus_: my dream of getting rid of comcast and going to starlink is rapidly fading
03:52 PM roycroft: the internet is overrated
04:11 PM JT[m]: Trying to install onecnc the case says use xr4 but it has xr3 and it says the password is incorrect....
04:13 PM JT[m]: And I can't find the xr4 cd
04:13 PM roycroft: what are you installing on?
04:13 PM roycroft: and why aren't use using lcnc?:)
04:13 PM roycroft: or is this just to generate the gcode?
04:14 PM JT[m]: Onecnc is a cam program
04:16 PM XXCoder: why does it have different version inside the case?
04:16 PM XXCoder: sounds like returnee
04:17 PM JT[m]: I've been using it for years
04:19 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (322KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/qiwGctGMrsEamzuGYYiVWUNg/20230301_161758.jpg >
04:19 PM XXCoder: wood arrived eh
04:19 PM JT[m]: Next dizzy bowl is in there somewhere
04:20 PM JT[m]: Just pulled out of stock to cut some off
04:24 PM XXCoder: awesome
04:24 PM XXCoder: wonder if you could do "decals" basically long square thing with design though it, then cut it into sections for placing in sides of bowls
04:30 PM JT[m]: I've seen something like that
04:31 PM XXCoder: yeah. i think those is cool :D
04:31 PM JT[m]: Roycroft is there a pretty hard white wood
04:38 PM roycroft: well, there is holly
04:39 PM roycroft: which is similar to cherry in hardness
04:39 PM roycroft: but it is very expensive and hard to find in large pieces
04:40 PM roycroft: sugar maple is probably more practical, especially if you're going to use it for turning
04:40 PM JT[m]: Thanks
04:46 PM roycroft: have you done any reall small turning, jt?
04:46 PM roycroft: like on the scale of knobs of pens
04:47 PM roycroft: the wood databse says that holly turns well, btw
04:48 PM roycroft: but it has interlocking grain, so i'd think it could be grabby and prone to tear-out
04:48 PM JT[m]: Nothing small
04:48 PM roycroft: ok
04:49 PM roycroft: i want to start making knobs and pulls
04:49 PM roycroft: which is one of the main reasons i bought my lathe
04:49 PM roycroft: i have the old hf full-size crappy tooling set that i've had for years - the ony new tooling i've bought is a sorby thin parting tool
04:50 PM roycroft: i want to get some decent tooling, and wonder if full size tooling works well with small parts
04:50 PM roycroft: i could spend a couple hundred dollars on small tooling, but if the full size tools will work well without being clumsy, i might as well just get them
05:20 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (363KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/NkBqljaboICChLrfHTjlMtcr/20230301_171849_7994540552031465730.jpg >
05:21 PM JT[m]: I have a couple of easy wood tools that came with the lathe, their pretty small
05:23 PM JT[m]: I think he was turning pens with them
05:52 PM * JT3196[m] uploaded an image: (2145KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/yxlSnLeCeFcLvWBciPKbborG/IMG_1183.jpg >
05:52 PM JT3196[m]: Big CoreXY now has belts
06:02 PM roycroft: i'm not familiar with easy wood tools, but a quick look at their website tells me they might be decent
06:02 PM roycroft: if you're not using them and you want to sell them for a reasonable price, talk to me
06:02 PM roycroft: i need to know what tools they are, of course
06:03 PM roycroft: i could go talk to the folks at woodcraft about the tools
06:04 PM roycroft: but one of two things would happen:
06:05 PM roycroft: 1. i would tell them specifically what i want to do and they would respond "there are all sorts of lathe tools - we can't really advise you because you need to figure out for yourself what works"
06:05 PM roycroft: or
06:05 PM roycroft: 2. they would determine what tools get them the best profit margin or that they're most overstocked on, and declare that those tools are the best fit for me
06:24 PM stormer13: Good evening
06:57 PM Tom_L: JT[m], should i set up a repo like i did for mesact?
08:42 PM mits[m]: So what does M6 do if you don't have hal_manualtoolchange loaded?
08:43 PM mits[m]: does it stop? error?
08:53 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: iocontrol will set the tool-change bit true and wait until tool-changed is set true. If no logic or connections in HAL are present it will hang forever waiting for the tool-changed signal.
09:14 PM mits[m]: oh
09:14 PM mits[m]: thanks
09:14 PM mits[m]: that's actually a good idea for an output signal for my sanity
09:36 PM mrec: is there any option in linuxcnc available to re-sync / compare index signals from a linear scale? eg. those glassscales provide an index signal all 50mm
09:40 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not sure what you are asking? Do the glass scales have a Z/index output? If so that would work the same way a rotary encoder index output would.
09:41 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You would use the homing with index config for that axis.
09:44 PM mrec: yes but they appear all 50mm, for homing it jamms into the limit switch and searches for the first 50mm mark on the glass scale
09:44 PM mrec: however the index marks are available all 50mm on the glass scales
09:44 PM mrec: it could be used to double check if everything is okay
09:48 PM mrec: my mill is currently in use still with the old servos on the Z axis I plan to change them to steppers due to more torque, I'm going to ativate the installed glass scales afterwards
09:48 PM Tom_L: how large is your mill?
09:48 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ah. I think you would need to write a component to do that. As far as I know, the index pulse is only used on homing. You might be able to set the index-enable bit but that might reset the hw encoder counter as well. The main problem with doing in software would be the very short period of the index pulse (usually one count). This is too fast for SW unless moving really slow.
09:48 PM mrec: small.
09:49 PM mrec: https://weiss-machines.com/en/produit/fraiseuse-detabli-vm18l/
09:49 PM mrec: this one
09:50 PM Tom_L: for keeping the axis on track you would also need some amount of acceptable tolerance when reading the scale position to true position
09:50 PM mrec: yes that's clear that's the purpose why I have installed the linear scale
09:50 PM mrec: I want to track the errors
09:50 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Basically, in a well set up system the encoder counts can be treated as error free. I believe the mesa hw has an error output to check for illegal encoder states you can use to know if you need to re-home.
09:51 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: This is something that would be best done with FPGA firmware and a special encoder counter.
09:51 PM Tom_L: i was more thinking of things like backlash on the axis etc
09:52 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: There is a reason that no one does this even with rotary encoders though.
09:52 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: If linear scales then backlash should not be an issue. They should have 0 backlash
09:56 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: PS Servos will outperform steppers every day of the week unless they are incorrectly sized. I would never convert a servo system to steppers. Especially with how cheap servos are these days.
10:01 PM skunkworks[m]: I agree with Zinkboy
10:01 PM skunkworks[m]: Zincboy
10:02 PM skunkworks[m]: both on encoder counting and servos.
10:02 PM skunkworks[m]: If you are having problems with your encoders/linear scales losing counts it is setup wrong or is bad.
10:06 PM skunkworks[m]: IIRC - there is a scrip someone wrote to check steppers accuracy by re-homing and comparing the error.
10:15 PM pcw-home: The Hostmot2 Encoder can latch the count on index
10:45 PM JT3196[m]: Where do I set the encoder / mm setting for ethercat CIA402 servos? currently it seems to go like 10cm when trying to move 1 mm