#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 28 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:51 AM Deejay: moin
03:30 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning ☕️
04:29 AM Tom_L: morning
04:42 AM Noodles[m] is now known as Noodles1863[m]
05:12 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:20 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:20 AM JT-Cave: hmm looks like my "kit" will arrive today
06:16 AM TurBoss: morning
06:26 AM TurBoss: kit the car?
06:26 AM travis_farmer[m]: kit the Starlink
06:26 AM TurBoss: 😲
06:26 AM TurBoss: now JT will be the operator of the GoldenEye
06:27 AM TurBoss: 😛
06:28 AM travis_farmer[m]: better than the BrownEye... ;-)
06:38 AM JT-Cave: lol
07:16 AM JT-Cave: bye
08:21 AM travis_farmer[m]: JT-Cave: "Bye" ???
08:44 AM unterhaus: openoffice doesn't know how to spell "per diem"
08:44 AM roycroft: we had a dusting of snow again last night, so of course this morning the news is nothing but school closures and reports of wrecks all around town
08:49 AM unterhaus: we had snow last night, they closed the schools early yesterday for some reason
08:53 AM * roycroft waves goodbye to the matrix
08:54 AM unterhaus: I feel like I could filter out those messages and I'm too lazy to look at the instructions
08:54 AM roycroft: it's time to make a cappuccino
08:55 AM roycroft: so i'll do that while the next round of scrollage takes place
08:57 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:58 AM Bushman: lol
08:58 AM Bushman: the bot literally joins a separate IRC session for each discord user?
08:59 AM Bushman: boy that's many user
08:59 AM Bushman: anyway...
08:59 AM Bushman: i'm still stuck with running the linuxcnc
08:59 AM JT-Shop: hmm, the "kit" is in Sikeston at 7:22am
08:59 AM Bushman: i've tried older RT kernel, but still no luck
08:59 AM Tom_L: anywhere near Poplar Bluff?
09:01 AM Bushman: i've tried running it with -d(ebug) and -v(erbose) but still no aditional clues
09:01 AM Bushman: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/cca7e3a4/
09:01 AM Tom_L: about a 45 min drive
09:01 AM Tom_L: so it seems
09:12 AM Bushman: i'm out of ideas. can anyone give me some things to try? at this point i won't mind if they seem absurd :D
09:12 AM roycroft: i ordered some phones last week, that ship out of mpls
09:12 AM roycroft: they are still sitting in the ups depot in eagan mn
09:12 AM roycroft: because of "the weather"
09:12 AM roycroft: i checked - since the shipping date, there has been no snow in minnesota north dakota, or montana along the shipping route
09:12 AM roycroft: and temperatures have been unseasonably warm in all three states
09:12 AM Tom_L: Bushman, try axis instead of gmoccapy :)
09:12 AM roycroft: ups are using "the weather" as an excuse
09:12 AM roycroft: there is snow in idaho and eastern washington, but my stuff could travel an entire time zone and a half before it hits snow
09:12 AM Tom_L: Waiting for component 'inihal' to become ready...........USRMOT: ERROR: command timeout
09:12 AM Tom_L: emcMotionInit: emcTrajInit failed
09:12 AM Bushman: Tom_L: great idea!
09:12 AM Bushman: :P
09:12 AM Bushman: i've googled that several times now... read most of the results and still no idea what to do.
09:13 AM rmu: this will log every system call and could provide a clue
09:14 AM Tom_L: there was also a linuxcnc log you could look at
09:14 AM rmu: what mainboard/cpu is this? rt-preempt kernel i suppose?
09:16 AM Tom_L: You can find more information in the log:
09:16 AM Tom_L: /home/cnc/linuxcnc_debug.txt
09:16 AM Bushman: mainboard no idea, cpu Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300U CPU @ 2.40GHz, kernel is RT preempt
09:16 AM rmu: seems this error kept popping up now and then and nobody really got to the root cause
09:16 AM Bushman: i've tried all available RT kernels
09:17 AM Bushman: (debug information was sent to stderr)
09:17 AM rmu: 6300 is skylake? 4-core or something like that? that is more than sufficient. do you use isolcpus on kernel command line?
09:17 AM Bushman: it's in the paste
09:17 AM Tom_L: ok
09:17 AM rmu: also for sim it shouldn't really matter
09:17 AM Bushman: rmu: do i use what?
09:18 AM Tom_L: isolcpus
09:18 AM Bushman: never heard of
09:18 AM Tom_L: limits cpu useage
09:18 AM Tom_L: cores
09:18 AM Bushman: hmm...
09:19 AM Bushman: like on boot ?
09:19 AM Tom_L: dedicate one core for lcnc
09:19 AM Bushman: i'm pretty sure i don't
09:19 AM Bushman: didn't know that's an option
09:19 AM rmu: nevermind, it shouldn't make a difference for sim
09:20 AM rmu: but you can try adding "isolcpus=3" or something like that to your kernel command line
09:20 AM rmu: how to do that on manjaro you have to figure out yourself
09:20 AM Bushman: i'll consider that. thanks ;)
09:21 AM Bushman: but that still doesn't answer the question what went wrong if even the sim doesn't want to run
09:22 AM rmu: some forum posts suggest "old config", so try removing the sim configs in your home dir
09:22 AM Tom_L: something else running on the work pc that may interfere with timing?
09:22 AM rmu: some other posts suggest it has to do with BIOS sleep state settings, you could try disabling those
09:22 AM Bushman: i have my previous, old install on other partition that was done with debian iso and it works fine on this hardware
09:24 AM Bushman: Tom_L: i don't think so... the jitter is shit, but i don't run my machine fast to i don't really care right now.
09:25 AM Bushman: the old version runs on this hardware, the current version runs on this OS...
09:25 AM Bushman: it's the combination of the two that is causing something
09:25 AM rmu: Bushman: what does "ls -l `which rtapi_app`" say?
09:26 AM unterhaus: does the latency test work?
09:26 AM Bushman: -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 114456 02-28 15:59 /usr/bin/rtapi_app
09:26 AM Bushman: unterhaus: in stepgen, yes
09:27 AM unterhaus: I would run latency-histogram
09:27 AM Bushman: *stepconf
09:27 AM rmu: Bushman: try "sudo chmod -s /usr/bin/rtapi_app" and then look if it goes away
09:27 AM unterhaus: and some glxgears and some youtube videos
09:27 AM Bushman: would that stop the sim from running?
09:28 AM rmu: no the sim should run whatever the latency and realtime kernel or not
09:28 AM rmu: maybe your kernel is buggered or something else is strange, who knows what that AUR package is doing ;-)
09:28 AM unterhaus: do what rmu says
09:28 AM unterhaus: I have suggested building from source, it's not so bad
09:29 AM Bushman: rmu: THAT WORKED!
09:29 AM Tom_L: that what?
09:29 AM Bushman: sudo chmod -s /usr/bin/rtapi_app worked!
09:29 AM JT-Shop: Tom_L, I'm close to having mesact2 to open an ini with multiple daughter cards
09:29 AM Tom_L: yay
09:29 AM Bushman: what's s mode?
09:29 AM rmu: so something is strange with your realtime stuff. "chmod -s" removes permission to use realtime scheduler class, so it is now running in non-realtime-mode
09:29 AM roycroft: it's hard to believe it's almost march
09:30 AM rmu: s for setuid
09:30 AM rmu: it runs the program under userid of owner of file
09:30 AM rmu: so as root in your case
09:30 AM rmu: that's needed to gain realtime permissions
09:31 AM Bushman: oooh
09:31 AM unterhaus: so if he ran lcnc as root, it would probably work?
09:31 AM Bushman: unterhaus: i tried, it didn't lol
09:31 AM rmu: no, the problem has gone away when it doesn't run with realtime priority
09:32 AM rmu: so something is fishy either with your rt preempt kernel or something with your setup
09:32 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i'll update later today and have a look
09:32 AM unterhaus: what I found interesting in all this is there is an unnamed person packaging lcnc
09:32 AM rmu: next i would add "isolcpus" and try again with setuid-bit set, with "sudo chmos +s /usr/bin/rtapi_app"
09:33 AM Tom_L: s/chmos/chmod
09:33 AM Bushman: mhm
09:33 AM Bushman: ok, time to google
09:34 AM rmu: sorry chmod, not chmos
09:34 AM unterhaus: where are the rt kernels coming from? The packager of lcnc?
09:35 AM Bushman: unterhaus: the kernel is just a regular preempt-RT kernel provided by manjaro
09:36 AM unterhaus: that should be okay then
09:36 AM unterhaus: unless you're the first person to use it
09:36 AM Bushman: lol
09:37 AM Bushman: it the kernel or it the linuxcnc on this kernel? lol
09:37 AM Bushman: cause i'm pretty sure i could be the latter
09:37 AM unterhaus: the lcnc build has to be linked to the kernel, afaik
09:37 AM rmu: it could be anything, even snapd messing with cgroups
09:38 AM rmu: unterhaus: not with userspace rt preempt linuxcnc
09:38 AM unterhaus: that's nice
09:38 AM Bushman: yea, that's nice, and that's the reason i wanted to ry it
09:38 AM Bushman: *try
09:39 AM unterhaus: I thought you said you had tried different kernels though
09:39 AM Bushman: seeing that i had not much trouble compiling and running hte sim on my home PC, i was optimistic trying it here too
09:39 AM unterhaus: you built lcnc at home?
09:39 AM Bushman: unterhaus: i did. i've tried to RUN it on different kernels
09:40 AM Bushman: unterhaus: yes. why?
09:40 AM unterhaus: I thought you were using the package
09:40 AM Bushman: no, i mean using the backage to compile it for me
09:41 AM Bushman: *package
09:41 AM unterhaus: okay, not familiar with packages that build software, kids nowadays will think of anything
09:41 AM Bushman: yea, it's confusing
09:42 AM Bushman: some packages are pre-built, others are just a bunch of files pre-configuring an enviroment for building
09:42 AM Bushman: in case of lcnc it's the latter
09:42 AM unterhaus: I'm back to thinking life would be easier if you built it yourself
09:43 AM Bushman: and (after solving some minor issues) it works every time 99% of the time for me lol
09:43 AM Bushman: unterhaus: i don
09:43 AM Bushman: fat fingers
09:43 AM unterhaus: as long as rmu has patience, you'll be okay :)
09:44 AM Bushman: unterhaus: i don't think so. it's literally just downloading the sources and building them
09:44 AM Tom_L: until there is a problem
09:44 AM unterhaus: and then it deletes everything
09:44 AM unterhaus: you left that part out
09:45 AM Bushman: well, define everything?
09:45 AM unterhaus: all the source and products of the build
09:45 AM Bushman: if you mean it cleans up after itself? yes. yes, it does.
09:45 AM Bushman: after installing
09:45 AM unterhaus: and then it doesn't work and no clues exist
09:46 AM Bushman: what clues do you mean? like build log?
09:46 AM rmu: unterhaus: i don't think i can help much further
09:46 AM Bushman: oh no! he run out of patience!!1
09:47 AM Bushman: rmu: yea. fair enough
09:47 AM Bushman: back to square one.
09:48 AM rmu: nothing to do with patience, but the only way forward would be to look at what is happening in usrmotinf.cc
09:49 AM Bushman: hmm..
09:49 AM JT-Shop: the "kit" is out for delivery
09:49 AM Tom_L: guess i know where to find you
09:50 AM unterhaus: how forthcoming has the package maintainer been with assistance?
09:51 AM Bushman: well, AUR maintainers aren't very well known for quick and successfull support :P
09:51 AM Bushman: as the name sugests Arch User Repository
09:51 AM rmu: Bushman: if your debian system works on same hardware I don't really see the point why you want to run manjaro on the machine
09:51 AM Bushman: in other words, bunch of random guys, slapping quick build script
09:52 AM Bushman: rmu: i want to update to be able to run other up-to-date software on this machine
09:54 AM Bushman: i know it's frowned uppon, but i run my CAD on the same machine
09:54 AM JT-Shop: heading to Revere in a bit lol
09:54 AM Bushman: it's easier for me to iterate on stuff this machine makes
09:56 AM Bushman: main purpose of this CNC is making industrial nameplates, labels and small parts.
09:56 AM rmu: probably easier to get the CAD running on current debian than linuxcnc on a "moving target"
09:56 AM unterhaus: dual boot is cheap
09:57 AM Bushman: when i'm doing a batch of labels, i mill set of 6 in a fixture, and edit next batch in the mean time.
09:57 AM unterhaus: run manjero in a virtual machine under debian
09:58 AM Bushman: that's another can of worms XD
09:58 AM rmu: if this is anything like a (semi-)commercial operation, get a dedicated PC as machine controller. used thin client or something like that.
09:58 AM unterhaus: I feel like that's the best approach, cad software seems to be really self-important
09:59 AM Bushman: it's a maintenance workshop. i get old used scraps ^_^'
10:00 AM Bushman: it's not for production use, but rather as a tool in the workshop. there's no more budged for this thing. otherwise i'd be using some nise mesa cards and powerfull servos :D
10:00 AM Bushman: anyway... let me try this last thing you guys sugested...
10:00 AM Bushman: isolcpus=3
10:01 AM Bushman: i'll come back when i'm done. now i need to do some other work... bbl
10:01 AM Bushman: thanks for all the help.
10:03 AM rmu: just chroot into manjaro ;)
10:30 AM unterhaus: I think all my lcnc computers are discards from penn state's libraries. Could also be admin computers, dunno, any evidence is gone
10:32 AM bjorkintosh: maybe they were just ones they had lying under the house or in the basement of the library.
10:38 AM unterhaus: they have all been about 4 years old, so I assume they were in service recently
10:38 AM unterhaus: they can't be officially updated to win 11
10:38 AM unterhaus: cpu isn't good enough for bill gates
10:39 AM unterhaus: funny thing is that if the surplus store decides to sell them as complete, they put win11 on them
10:40 AM unterhaus: the most recent one I got has a decent bios, i.e. no latency spikes
11:03 AM unterhaus: a couple of years ago, I got some xeon workstations. One of the dual xeons runs with very little latency, but only under rtai
11:28 AM roycroft: luck you
11:28 AM roycroft: i got a rock
11:28 AM roycroft: lucky, rather
11:32 AM roycroft: i just had to redo my new lamp frame design
11:32 AM roycroft: i originally designed it in mm, because it was so much easier, but then i found that metric router bits are all but impossible to find, even from overseas sources
11:33 AM roycroft: and end mills in small sizes come mostly with the shank diameter the same as the cutter diameter
11:33 AM roycroft: my hand-held routers cannot accept arbitrary shank sizes
11:33 AM roycroft: so i ended up redoing it american customary units
11:34 AM roycroft: this is something a cnc router would solve easily, of course
11:34 AM roycroft: but i want to know why the world has standardized on inch unit router cutters
11:35 AM roycroft: i mean, there are metric router cutters available
11:35 AM roycroft: i can buy 6.35mm spiral cutters all over the place
11:36 AM roycroft: or 12.7mm
11:36 AM roycroft: but 6mm or 12mm, not so much
11:40 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That is odd. I can get 6mm and 12mm stuff all day from aliexpress but the 1/4 and 1/2" cutters are thinner on the ground.
11:42 AM unterhausen: I just looked up the University of Oregon surplus and can't find a store
11:42 AM unterhausen: the Oregon state store looks awesome
11:43 AM unterhausen: and when I say awesome, I mean just like my basement
11:47 AM unterhausen: the world except for France standardized on U.S. customary for tubing
11:47 AM unterhausen: except now they say it's 28.6mm or something like that
11:54 AM roycroft: the u of o put things on cl sometimes and have auctions a few times/year
11:54 AM roycroft: but they don't have a surplus store, per se
11:54 AM roycroft: the university are pretty good at beating things into a pulp before they surplus them anyway, and then expect to get top dollar for the pools of pulp
11:55 AM roycroft: anything athletics-related notwithstanding
11:55 AM roycroft: if it's athletic gear they replace it as soon as the new gear smell starts to fade
12:16 PM unterhausen: If you want size 12 and up athletic shoes, PSU has a deal for you
12:17 PM unterhausen: anything that is used by the administration gets used until it needs the first oil change and then goes to salvage
12:18 PM unterhausen: good place to buy a nice but well-used hockey stick too
12:23 PM roycroft: the u of o athletic department is very wealthy
12:23 PM roycroft: but unlike at many universities, they do not share the wealth with other divsions at all
12:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: OT question: are US ER's currently just packed with patients, maybe 2x more beds in the halls than rooms with looked like blanket forts set up in the waiting areas?
12:26 PM roycroft: some ae
12:26 PM roycroft: are
12:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looked like a scene in a disaster film
12:28 PM roycroft: because we have the best health care system in the world
12:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heh, too many a-holes in here to start that convo
12:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming"
12:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: what is the avg tuition at Penn St. ?
12:34 PM unterhausen: I think they are up over 10k/semester
12:35 PM unterhausen: but given that it's a private school now (state affiliated) that doesn't sound so bad
12:35 PM unterhausen: they were talking about taking it fully private a few years ago
12:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: did the state sell it? or which term did they use for the takeover?
12:36 PM unterhausen: state contributions are down to 5% per year of the total budget
12:36 PM unterhausen: they basically gave up ownership
12:37 PM unterhausen: I'm sure there are complications in going private, but it's a de-facto private school now
12:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: efficiently run from the sounds of it
12:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: :)
12:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we talked about corporate sponsored elementary schools 20 years ago
12:42 PM unterhausen: I knew it was serious when the state sent a letter to the office of physical plant saying they weren't a state school and need to get building permits from the state
12:42 PM unterhausen: as you can imagine the delays
12:44 PM unterhausen: I don't know anything about how efficiently things are run, but the state contributions have dropped precipitously at the same time requirements keep coming in
12:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I know that replacing sports gear at the sign of the first scratch is relatively trivial in comparison to what else goes on
12:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm sure the admins don't drive around in 10 year old Hondas either
12:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: I don't know how they structure it, but lots of schools sports programs get "funding" from alumni or their corporations
12:53 PM unterhausen: I think all sports programs in the U.S. get significant amounts of general funds
12:54 PM unterhausen: only the top 10 or so even are close to breaking even, and that's ignoring subsidies
12:55 PM unterhausen: I'm sure they send shoes to salvage when they change sponsors, or the sponsors want them to wear a different model of shoe
12:55 PM unterhausen: they are all on instagram showing off their shoes
12:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah I have boxes of random blank sports shoes for programs like this
12:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: custom small runs of shoes for teams
01:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: did discussions ever come up to have a few more thermodynamics classes for EE's there?
01:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I was surprised by how little an EE knows about thermal management
01:01 PM bjorkintosh: thermal management isn't the same as thermodynamics is it?
01:02 PM bjorkintosh: sure, one is foundational. but it's fundamental to any number of other fields.
01:02 PM bjorkintosh: whereas the other is very HVAC-like.
01:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bjorkintosh: did you see the news the other day?
01:03 PM bjorkintosh: which of the news-es?
01:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah
01:03 PM bjorkintosh: something burnt down?
01:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: did you have a favorite?
01:03 PM bjorkintosh: of news? I don't do much news consumption I'm afraid.
01:03 PM bjorkintosh: haven't in 20 years.
01:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and when is it no longer news?
01:04 PM bjorkintosh: wouldn't know.
01:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just wondering
01:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not an exam
01:05 PM bjorkintosh: was there a news cast related to thermal management and a dearth of thermodynamics instructions?
01:07 PM roycroft: there was some significant thermal activity in ohio the other day
01:08 PM bjorkintosh: hahahaha
01:08 PM bjorkintosh: Oh.
01:08 PM roycroft: that train blowed up real good
01:08 PM bjorkintosh: Yeah. I heard about that.
01:08 PM bjorkintosh: made Palestine toastier.
01:09 PM bjorkintosh: reprieve from the cold ohio winter or something.
01:12 PM bjorkintosh: CaptHindsight[m], in hindsight, yes, it is now pretty damned obvious that there was as a matter of fact, a thermal event recently.
01:12 PM bjorkintosh: I'd forgotten all about it.
01:12 PM bjorkintosh: Poor thermal management is a significant problem.
01:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the dangers of choo-choos
01:18 PM bjorkintosh: I'm sure it's unrelated but coming so soon after snubbing the rail union ...
01:18 PM bjorkintosh: one would think the gubmint had done something terrible to the workers or something.
01:19 PM roycroft: i don't think the two are related
01:19 PM roycroft: but my opinions don't mean much, so take that for what you will
01:20 PM bjorkintosh: I don't think so either. publicity wise, I'm sure it's not pretty.
01:26 PM roycroft: the current rule is that extra safety measures need to be taken when 70 or more cars are carrying hazardous materials
01:27 PM roycroft: so 69 train cars full of vinyl chloride is perfectly safe, but 70 is dangerous
01:27 PM roycroft: the railroads are lobbying to have the restriction removed
01:27 PM bjorkintosh: s/railroads/MBAs/g
01:28 PM roycroft: the train that blew up was almost 2 miles long - one of the longest trains that the industry every builds
01:28 PM bjorkintosh: they are the single biggest disaster to have been foisted on just minding one's own business.
01:28 PM roycroft: one would think that when extremely dangerous chemicals are being transported the train would be a more reasonable length
01:29 PM bjorkintosh: the numbers worked out.
01:29 PM bjorkintosh: I mean it. every single time there's a catastrophic disaster, behind it are a group of self-congratulating MBAs taking all the credit and the profits and redirecting the blame.
01:46 PM XXCoder: will always happen as long as punishment is much smaller than profit
01:47 PM drmacro[m] is now known as drmacro2494[m]
01:47 PM drmacro2494[m]: Is the other LinuxCNC server now defunct?
01:47 PM XXCoder: yeah
01:48 PM bjorkintosh: <XXCoder> will always happen as long as punishment is much smaller than profit. funny you should say that. because they have all the damned money, they have an easier time lobbying for their benefit!
01:48 PM elia: hi there, back after a long break, some of you might remember me being active here as 'enleth' for a few years in the past, messing with a Bridgeport Series I MDI
01:48 PM bjorkintosh: and so punishment will always be smaller than profit.
01:48 PM XXCoder: yeah
01:50 PM * roycroft remembers enleth and the bridgeport
01:52 PM bjorkintosh: sounds like the title to a children's book.
01:52 PM bjorkintosh: Enleth and the Bridgeport.
01:52 PM bjorkintosh: hmm. I'll see what chatgpt comes up with.
01:55 PM elia: has there been any progress in opensource servo drives lately? stmbl seems to be a functionally dead project
01:56 PM bjorkintosh: it's cranking away! chatgpt needs a 'typewriter' sound or a linotype machine sound when it's generating text.
01:56 PM elia: everything else that used to be around was kinda toy-grade in terms of power and voltage range capacity
02:00 PM bjorkintosh: Enleth and the bridgeport mill: https://pastebin.com/pxAK9Vk9
02:03 PM elia: (tbh not hugely fond of this, I'm no longer using that nickname for a reason, but I can't deny the creativity)
02:04 PM bjorkintosh: ah. s/enleth/elia any time!
02:04 PM bjorkintosh: story is all yours.
02:05 PM XXCoder: pretty dang good
02:05 PM elia: also s/his/her/
02:06 PM bjorkintosh: oh that was chatgpt's internal bias.
02:07 PM bjorkintosh: all I did was to seed it with a name, the mill and linuxcnc. it assumed the rest. which is pretty telling.
02:08 PM elia: oh, certainly
02:08 PM bjorkintosh: i'm sure if I had mentioned dolls and a random made up name, it would have made entierly different assumptions as well.
02:13 PM XXCoder: its no accient that stable diffision warns of amplifing cultural assumations and such
02:13 PM XXCoder: chatgpt is no different
02:13 PM bjorkintosh: yeah. same difference, really.
02:14 PM bjorkintosh: those assumptions transcend story telling. want a quick program in PL/1? hahahah. good luck.
02:14 PM bjorkintosh: in python? oh hold its beer.
02:14 PM bjorkintosh: hmm. an insight! Assumptions have a statistical component.
02:14 PM bjorkintosh: a statistical weight, if you will.
02:15 PM * bjorkintosh ponders.
02:16 PM bjorkintosh: oh. of course it does. assumptions reside in the head of animals. basic GIGO.
02:16 PM XXCoder: I read aboutcompanies using chatgpd as dev tool
02:17 PM XXCoder: eh dunno im sure that'll be fine lol
02:17 PM perry_j1987: i've written quite a few programs with chatgpt heh
02:18 PM XXCoder: it can work if you also check though and make needed edits and such
02:18 PM XXCoder: but its not a replacement
02:18 PM bjorkintosh: perry_j1987, in which language?
02:18 PM perry_j1987: it works with you not solo
02:19 PM perry_j1987: it will quickly make you hit your hourly limit doing code itterations too heh
02:19 PM perry_j1987: javascript and python and such
02:19 PM perry_j1987: whatever i need
02:20 PM bjorkintosh: they want you to pay for it. I say it is the wizard of oz
02:20 PM bjorkintosh: it's simply gathering data to charge more for later models.
02:20 PM perry_j1987: its worth the 20 bucks a month as it stands now
02:25 PM travis_farmer[m]: been snowing all day... and still snowing... i think those nice warm days were just a tease...
02:39 PM unterhausen: one of our grad students taught thermo to electrical engineers. They probably would do better with some heat transfer
02:40 PM unterhausen: but that's mostly done by mechanical engineers, in my experience
02:49 PM unterhausen: since google changed their algorithm to serve you up answers that will get them advertising dollars instead of answering your question, we might all have to switch to something like chatgpt until they figure out how to teach that to do the same
03:08 PM roycroft: i've been using duckduckgo for years
04:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this channel could use a chatbot
04:13 PM roycroft: not
04:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=what+should+I+buy%3F
04:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: most people want to be told what to do, even though they say that they don't
04:15 PM travis_farmer[m]: yes, but i want that from REAL intelligence...
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 5 vs 10 lbs of peer pressure
04:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: oh which intelligence is real?
04:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: book smarts, street smarts, smart shoes, etc.?
04:17 PM travis_farmer[m]: i have a tested IQ of 111, that should count for something real...
04:18 PM travis_farmer[m]: intelligence of any kind is only as smart as the programmer
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: those test aren't accurate, I've never scored under 160 and i even made up answers
04:18 PM XXCoder: sometimes higher iq just means person can be dumb faster
04:19 PM XXCoder: its only measure of how fast person brain works and no more or less
04:19 PM XXCoder: people often confuse with with knowing a lot of stuff
04:19 PM travis_farmer[m]: this was a neuro-psych test, not an internet one
04:19 PM XXCoder: my iq was 130 last I had that
04:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: fastbrains
04:19 PM travis_farmer[m]: as i said though "intelligence of any kind is only as smart as the programmer"
04:19 PM XXCoder: im sure its around 90 now.
04:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what if your brain is really fast but your eyes and mouth are slow?
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you need to test brains directly
04:21 PM travis_farmer[m]: or, if you are autistic, and can't communicate what you know very well?
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no sensory or expressive organs to get in the way
04:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i want to know how brains encode memories, please ping me when we find out
04:23 PM travis_farmer[m]: quantum DNA storage?
04:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 🧀 🥪
04:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cheese + sandwich
04:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: where does your brain put that?
04:26 PM XXCoder: theres been findings related to memory but forgot details
04:26 PM travis_farmer[m]: a variety of places. visual, smell, taste memories, plus perhaps the procedure to make the sandwich is recalled and linked...
04:26 PM XXCoder: https://www.livescience.com/how-the-brain-stores-memories
04:26 PM travis_farmer[m]: lol, XX ;-)
04:35 PM travis_farmer[m]: Hmmm, i remember years ago, i had a guy that wanted to buy my 4' X 4' CNC router table, before i knew what i had. the guy said it was only worth $500... i am so glad i not only didn't sell it, but certainly that i didn't sell it for $500...
04:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://annarbor.craigslist.org/tls/d/ypsilanti-bench-top-cnc-machine/7569059553.html
04:38 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (113KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/ekqCMtPOzhvNYVxxqCTTKwGw/200kgdolly.jpg >
04:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: polymer dolly rated for 450Kg ^^
04:39 PM XXCoder: ded
04:40 PM XXCoder: travis geez thats expensive
04:40 PM XXCoder: look up millenium machining project travis
04:42 PM travis_farmer[m]: $500 is expensive for a 4' X 4' cnc router table????
04:43 PM XXCoder: not that one
04:43 PM XXCoder: im talking about capt link
04:43 PM XXCoder: yeah I misread nick of person linking to that lol
04:43 PM travis_farmer[m]: oh
04:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: don't leave heavy objects on the plastic dollies
04:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 200Kg of aluminum for 6 years warped it
04:51 PM XXCoder: yeah
04:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://images.craigslist.org/00707_5RgSmm4C0Mhz_0CI0t2_1200x900.jpg apparently made with the mill
04:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe to show how well it doesn't work?
05:15 PM XXCoder: hey amke it extrme is making car series
05:15 PM XXCoder: turning bad car into good ev
05:16 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/IW2oDb1b7Bs
05:16 PM XXCoder: i wonder if it'll be like that car series that went literally years
05:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://vimeo.com/64718571 cnc tubing bender
05:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: do they use these in construction yet for electrical conduits?
05:24 PM XXCoder: wonder why theyre working on body first before batteries and engine
05:25 PM _unreal_: back in a few, my memory showed up got to shut down for a sec. not a huge improvement but going from 8 to 16gb ram AND going to dual channel.
05:32 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:33 PM JT-Shop: finally
05:34 PM JT-Shop: now to get the lan back up
05:34 PM XXCoder: yay
05:35 PM _unreal_: ok 16gb ram installed.
05:36 PM _unreal_: I have yet to see any benifit of it. but then again just rebooted.
05:37 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, back for real?????
05:39 PM _unreal_: Only thing I have noticed so far is that my HD is going nuts after rebooting but I'm not hearing clicking.
05:39 PM _unreal_: which is interesting.....
05:39 PM _unreal_: before I was hearing endless click click click.
05:39 PM Tom_L: better back it up
05:40 PM _unreal_: OK WOW.... just got my cad software open. I can already feel a difference in free moving a part that is complex.
05:40 PM _unreal_: way smoother
05:41 PM _unreal_: rendering and motion. way faster.
05:41 PM Tom_L: _unreal_> I have yet to see any benifit of it.
05:41 PM _unreal_: It was still booting
05:41 PM Tom_L: still using rust or ssd?
05:42 PM Tom_L: switch to ssd and you'll notice another big difference
05:42 PM Tom_L: oh.. and no clicking :)
05:52 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, working on it, windblows 7 here in the shop still won't connect...
05:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: real men use RAM disk
05:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there's a term you don't hear much these days
05:57 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:57 PM JT-Cave: Tom03[m], that you?
06:00 PM JT-Cave: Tom_L, the biggest improvement in mesact2 is to be able to skip an axis, for example say stepgen 0 is borked you can just skip it
06:00 PM JT-Cave: no other config tool allow that
06:03 PM Tom_L: no that's not me
06:03 PM JT-Cave: fingered that out lol
06:04 PM Tom_L: still haven't had a chance to dl the changes
06:04 PM JT-Cave: time to call it a night... gotta replace the cable from the sat dish to the modem tomorrow... today it's just hanging off the roof
06:04 PM Tom_L: did you figure out what the issue was?
06:04 PM JT-Cave: mainly working on building and opening the ini file now
06:05 PM JT-Cave: nope, just kept changing parts till it worked
06:05 PM Tom_L: heh
06:05 PM JT-Cave: could have been the cable it's the last thing I changed
06:05 PM Tom_L: you have to send the other one back?
06:05 PM Tom_L: that seems to be the main issue with the new dish
06:05 PM JT-Cave: gotta figure out how to stow the other dish so it fits back in the box
06:06 PM JT-Cave: yup gotta send it all back even though I paid $500 for the parts...
06:06 PM Tom_L: that sucks
06:06 PM JT-Cave: yup
06:07 PM JT-Cave: hmm wonder if the chicken coop rpi's know what day and time it is?
06:07 PM Tom_L: they don't get the time the way PCs do
06:07 PM Tom_L: i forget just how
06:08 PM JT-Cave: no real time clock so they use the internet to get the date time info
06:09 PM JT-Cave: my program updates the astral data a bit after midnight so it needs internet
06:09 PM JT-Cave: see you in the morning
06:10 PM Tom_L: later
06:10 PM Tom_L: maybe by then i'll have gotten the update :)
06:34 PM * skunkworks[m] uploaded an image: (3285KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/uoJztMraDfmvlcgHOyQQIHiY/PXL_20230228_193037435.jpg >
06:34 PM skunkworks[m]: finally got a grill.. could not bring myself to buy the emblem.. It was more than the grill.. So I 3d printed one.
06:43 PM Tom_L: looks good
06:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: skunkworks: they should give emblems away for free as advertisement
06:46 PM XXCoder: the VW decal?
06:47 PM skunkworks[m]: yes - the center VW emblem
06:47 PM skunkworks[m]: CaptainHindsight I agree.
06:47 PM XXCoder: yeah dunno why they make it pricy, its ad basically
06:48 PM * skunkworks[m] uploaded an image: (2656KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/eMrbMCQNbxazmPpzojOjxspP/PXL_20220327_161706676_3.jpg >
06:48 PM skunkworks[m]: for reference...
06:51 PM XXCoder: oh yeah, forgot that you was restoring a car
06:51 PM XXCoder: isnt that totaled though?
06:59 PM skunkworks[m]: xxcoder (@_discord_448217356418809857:jauriarts.org) well.. Yes I suppose... but for some reason the title was clear. I didn't ask questoins
06:59 PM skunkworks[m]: questions
06:59 PM XXCoder: weird. well if its good its good
07:00 PM roycroft: that car looks rather crunchy
07:01 PM roycroft: i can't imagine why it doesn't have a salvage title
07:02 PM roycroft: have you pulled a carfax report on it?
07:02 PM roycroft: perhaps the wreck was never reported
07:27 PM jepler[m] is now known as jepler1088[m]
08:17 PM unterhausen: my late lamented car that got totaled had far less damage than that.
08:20 PM XXCoder: reminds me of that time guy had fancy car have crack in rear axis. apparently its totaled
08:20 PM XXCoder: its perfect otherwise and no, he cant just weld on it and its fixed
08:21 PM XXCoder: crack is barely visible too
08:21 PM XXCoder: https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2017/09/18/corvette-totaled-for-1-inch-crack-makes-jalopnik-body-shop-recounts-experience/
08:28 PM MikeM[m]: Wow, that really sucks. That sounds like a 1 in a million occurrence too
08:28 PM XXCoder: yeah
09:25 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:41 PM _unreal_: working on milling out the final part for my new micro tower for the OPI5
09:49 PM Lcvette[m]: Does anyone in here build Debian packages?
09:51 PM Tom_L: Lcvette[m], you mean debs?
09:51 PM Tom_L: JT has
09:51 PM Lcvette[m]: If so have you encountered warnings in your builds regarding data packages
09:51 PM Lcvette[m]: Yes
09:52 PM Tom_L: i do the rpi ones for him but don't really know what i'm doing
09:52 PM Lcvette[m]: We have dens working for qtpyvcp and probe basic, but getting some warnings
09:52 PM Lcvette[m]: Just trying to get the builds to go through clean
09:52 PM Tom_L: i'd ask in the AM
09:52 PM Tom_L: when he's around
09:55 PM Tom_L: Lcvette[m], https://www.gnipsel.com/github/index.html
09:55 PM Tom_L: oh nevermind, the links are dead
09:56 PM * Lcvette[m] uploaded an image: (125KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/ZIrMfmxamEcTdzlDXyWQkpHc/Screenshot_20230228-225520_Chrome.jpg >
09:56 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/jethornton/simple-deb
09:57 PM Tom_L: sry can't read that
09:58 PM Lcvette[m]: https://repository.qtpyvcp.com/buildbot/#/builders/2/builds/11/steps/2/logs/stdio
09:58 PM Lcvette[m]: Expand the build log to see the full list and scroll up
10:02 PM Tom_L: does it build a deb?
10:05 PM Tom_L: Lcvette[m], i do know he uses dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc
10:06 PM Tom_L: probably unrelated to your issue
10:09 PM Lcvette[m]: yes builds the debs and they install
10:09 PM Lcvette[m]: but just trying to avoid any future issues
10:10 PM Tom_L: it's python. you _will_ have future issues :)
10:10 PM Lcvette[m]: we have tried several things and can get the build to go through without the warnings but then are seeing that the rc file is not being created
10:10 PM Lcvette[m]: im becoming overly aware of that
10:11 PM Lcvette[m]: /o\
10:11 PM Lcvette[m]: its been a hell of a week
10:11 PM Tom_L: it took lcnc quite a while to go from 2 to 3
10:11 PM Tom_L: lights out for me..
10:12 PM Tom_L: later
10:12 PM Lcvette[m]: the py2 installer is now dead, and the latest update on bookworm installs python 3.11 which does away with system pip installs and requires everything be run in virtual envoronment
10:12 PM Lcvette[m]: night
10:25 PM skunkworks[m]: roycroft: I have not pulled a car fax - but the title was processed and transferred over to me with no leans or changes like totaled. The car had set in someone's yard for 2 years. (collaborated by the tags on the license plate..) So - I think someone had an accident and it was taken care of under the table.. Or daddy took care of it.
10:27 PM skunkworks[m]: it is really quite delightful to drive. Gets around 40mpg.. It has android auto. I kinda like it. like a lot.
10:27 PM skunkworks[m]: Plus it is a 5 speed manual
10:39 PM roycroft: it should have a salvage title if the wreck was reported
10:40 PM XXCoder: yeah damage is too much. likely it is as skunk says. disappeared accient
10:41 PM XXCoder: maybe its embarring one, like drunk drive, hit and run
10:47 PM roycroft: high school english teacher: "when in doubt, insert a comma anywhere you would naturally pause when speaking"
10:47 PM roycroft: 15-year-old william shatner: "o, k"
10:56 PM JT3196[m]: Got my CoreXY ethercat CIA402 servos running 😄 Just had to loopback the e-stop for now. I guess I should source a real button
11:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT$#3196: leave the wire connectors on the loose side that you can yank them out to activate e-stop until you get a proper button switch
11:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or light gauge enough wire that will tear when pulled
11:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: skunkworks: very nice car project and gamble
11:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.imgur.com/k6H0MPo.jpg getting rid of this if anyone wants a project
11:34 PM Kevin`: I wish I hade the space for that
11:39 PM JT3196[m]: CaptainHindsight (@_discord_702231000050040894:jauriarts.org) I haven't setup the stepper driver that has the I/O breakout on it so I physically have no I/O on the ethercat network.
11:40 PM JT3196[m]: Currently just 2 servo drivers which use their inputs for the encoders