#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 26 2023

12:09 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning ☕️ man what a night...
12:20 AM XXCoder: its still barely night
12:20 AM XXCoder: 10 am
12:20 AM XXCoder: erm pm
12:20 AM travis_farmer[m]: 1am here ;-)
01:36 AM Deejay: moin
04:43 AM andypugh_: Bushman: Can you raise this as an issue on the tracker? Otherwise we are almost certain to forget it. https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues
04:46 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:46 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:54 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:58 AM rmu: travis_farmer[m]: big e-stop button, enable button, power switch, enabled-light, and IMHO the rest on a touch screen. if you want to get fancy add a potentiometer for feed override.
05:30 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:54 AM Tom_L: morning
07:07 AM travis_farmer[m]: due to the cold, i think i will just settle into a movie, rather than work in y shop... probably for the better, as apparently my plans and ideas are, like myself, stupid
07:49 AM * c101horse8332[m] uploaded an image: (1298KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/SIXDUPJJNQqgfAsDgCpNvypV/IMG_20230226_144536.jpg >
07:49 AM * c101horse8332[m] uploaded an image: (983KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/NXwYcGiAtUKmNbROBoDVEtus/IMG_20230226_144541.jpg >
07:49 AM c101horse8332[m]: Im having a little trouble with the probing, probing outside boss, does z, then goes off to do x, drops down outside the part like its supposed to, starts going towards the part like its supposed to, makes contact and throws me the, probe made contact in a no probing routine
07:49 AM c101horse8332[m]: Am i doing something wrong?
07:52 AM satiowadahc[m]: Can you see the motion.probe-input pin changing when the probe makes contact?
08:04 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:07 AM c101horse8332[m]: i turned the probe a litte and now it does x fine, but gives me the error on y
08:22 AM c101horse8332[m]: Problem is my probe most likely, oriented differently it does work
08:45 AM c101horse8332[m]: yay more problems
08:46 AM c101horse8332[m]: machine jogs fine no problems, then when actually running code itll do xy fine for a bit then it suddenly doesnt want to tell the x axis to go in the other direction and only runs it one way making the cutter end up all the way on one side of the bed
08:48 AM JT-Shop: check your direction wire
08:52 AM c101horse8332[m]: it jogs fine both directions, it ran for 4 hours going both ways fine
08:53 AM c101horse8332[m]: this thing is thoroughly starting to piss me off
09:13 AM bananun[m] is now known as sias9977[m]
09:17 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop, nice bowl
09:25 AM JT-Shop: thanks
09:26 AM JT-Shop: after I burnished it this morning it really looked even better
09:28 AM JT-Shop: second coat of T&T varnish oil is on now
09:36 AM Bushman: andypugh_: sure. I'll post it on the isssue tracker.
09:41 AM Lcvette[m]: c101horse🇳🇱: your probe parameters are probably set to tight
09:41 AM c101horse8332[m]: what do you mean?
09:42 AM Lcvette[m]: I can just see a small bit of the parameters, post up the full parameter pouring of the screen
09:42 AM Lcvette[m]: s/pouring/portion/
09:42 AM Lcvette[m]: The left side
09:42 AM Lcvette[m]: All the entry boxes
09:43 AM c101horse8332[m]: i've turned it off in a fit of rage allready, and to be honest, i cant be arsed to go out there in the cold atm
09:43 AM Lcvette[m]: Did you read the probe help section
09:43 AM Lcvette[m]: It explains the parameters
09:44 AM c101horse8332[m]: yes, i've used probe basic before with succes, and havent had this problem before
09:45 AM c101horse8332[m]: i've tried changing the parameters to greater vallues, still does the same thing, just travels a longer distance before throwing me an error
09:45 AM Lcvette[m]: If your step off width and max xy travel is the same it will just keep doing the same thing
09:46 AM Lcvette[m]: Mac xy travel is how far it will move before eroding with no probe contact
09:46 AM Lcvette[m]: s/Mac/Max/, s/eroding/erroring/
09:47 AM c101horse8332[m]: stepoff width set to 5mm max travel 8mm, extra probe depth 5.5mm because of the machined step,
09:48 AM c101horse8332[m]: keeping the same settings but rotating the probe 90degrees did make it work
09:48 AM Lcvette[m]: Is your hint larger than the work?
09:48 AM c101horse8332[m]: by a mm maybe
09:48 AM c101horse8332[m]: hint on the x was 101 probed to 100.8287
09:48 AM _unreal_: Whats new..
09:49 AM c101horse8332[m]: i can get around the probe being wonky for now, im now just angry about the x axis not working in one direction when running code but going both ways fine when jogging or probing
09:50 AM Lcvette[m]: Check your direction wire
09:51 AM Lcvette[m]: I had a similar thing happen and it was the Rudin wire was broken and intermittently causing random direction changes
09:51 AM c101horse8332[m]: yeah jt said that, but i dont see why tho, since it works absolutely fine when not running code
09:52 AM Lcvette[m]: s/Rudin/direction/
09:52 AM Lcvette[m]: Dunno
09:52 AM Lcvette[m]: I am running the latest on my machine and not seeing that behavior
09:53 AM Lcvette[m]: It could also be that you're getting random probe triggers
09:54 AM Lcvette[m]: This would cause the reversal
09:54 AM Lcvette[m]: I'm unfamiliar with that probe
09:54 AM c101horse8332[m]: wouldnt that throw an error tho? probe tripped during a non probing move
09:55 AM Lcvette[m]: Is it tripod style or piezo
09:55 AM c101horse8332[m]: probe isnt even connected during the milling op
09:55 AM c101horse8332[m]: and the connector is well out of the way of chips
09:56 AM Lcvette[m]: I'm confused
09:57 AM Lcvette[m]: I only have info on the probing routine issue
09:57 AM Lcvette[m]: Is there other symptoms?
09:57 AM c101horse8332[m]: i got around the probing issue
09:58 AM c101horse8332[m]: i had to do that because when running a milling op it went 3/4 around the part and instead of going back to where it started it just sat there when i checked
09:58 AM Lcvette[m]: ?
10:00 AM Lcvette[m]: I'm trying to understand
10:00 AM Lcvette[m]: But I'm not imagining the situation correctly maybe
10:01 AM c101horse8332[m]: video explenation incoming
10:01 AM Lcvette[m]: Ok
10:01 AM * c101horse8332[m] uploaded a video: (3049KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/fqefidXjcBsmiDltAVGqolQJ/VID_20230226_165835.mp4 >
10:01 AM * c101horse8332[m] uploaded a video: (9953KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/pYbCWUXwdsHzPNCxpbrLPEfv/VID_20230226_165848.mp4 >
10:03 AM * c101horse8332[m] uploaded a video: (6513KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/xUROTtUkwOSzMixBBnFEhQww/VID_20230226_165922.mp4 >
10:03 AM c101horse8332[m]: god hearing my self is horrible
10:05 AM Lcvette[m]: That's very strange
10:06 AM Lcvette[m]: Is the g code correct?
10:06 AM rmu: c101horse8332[m]: what does the DRO say
10:06 AM Lcvette[m]: Ie axis direction calls showing correctly?
10:06 AM c101horse8332[m]: dro keeps going
10:06 AM c101horse8332[m]: while the axis just sits there
10:06 AM rmu: like it should according to program or is it reflecting actual position?
10:07 AM c101horse8332[m]: well, it wiggles a bit
10:07 AM c101horse8332[m]: according to the program
10:07 AM Lcvette[m]: So it knows its going that Dustin means it's in your code
10:07 AM Lcvette[m]: * So it knows its going that direction means it's in your code maybe
10:08 AM c101horse8332[m]: ive had to redo the code twice atleast because of the stock origin moving
10:09 AM rmu: c101horse8332[m]: your cabling is ok? power supply? enable? thermal issues with driver?
10:09 AM Lcvette[m]: Post the code
10:10 AM * c101horse8332[m] posted a file: (39KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/ERyqlIWHTYsbRGQlLUWYvUzT/T5_8mmruw_adaptive2_v3.ngc >
10:10 AM c101horse8332[m]: thats the latest one
10:11 AM rmu: is this a stepper machine? open loop?
10:12 AM c101horse8332[m]: everything else is fine, which rules out the psu i guess, no thermal issues, all lights on the driver stay on and itll jog fine both directions
10:12 AM rmu: it is possible that cutting forces are too much for your steppers, that would explain moving origin
10:13 AM Lcvette[m]: Your code is bad
10:13 AM Lcvette[m]: It has it moving in x positive almost the entire file
10:15 AM * c101horse8332[m] uploaded an image: (245KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/rJNrZEQfDApGIJisFsfJmwJz/image.png >
10:15 AM c101horse8332[m]: its supposed to do this
10:15 AM Lcvette[m]: The g code
10:15 AM rmu: if the backplot displays ok your code should be fine
10:15 AM Lcvette[m]: Is the instruction
10:16 AM c101horse8332[m]: yeah i get that
10:16 AM rmu: try running it without any stock
10:16 AM Lcvette[m]: Look at the code
10:16 AM c101horse8332[m]: i do have some sort of prior cnc knowledge
10:16 AM Lcvette[m]: It can't do that airways moving in x+
10:16 AM rmu: i.e. "dry-run", no cutting
10:16 AM Lcvette[m]: s/airways/always/
10:21 AM c101horse8332[m]: which post am i supposed to use? since fusion has several linuxcnc ones
10:23 AM Lcvette[m]: Disregard, it's in g90
10:23 AM Lcvette[m]: I saw g91 on my phone
10:24 AM Lcvette[m]: Should have looked on PC first
10:24 AM Lcvette[m]: It looks correct here
10:24 AM Lcvette[m]: This is looking like physical issue
10:25 AM pcw-home: if hardware, marginal drive on STEP/DIR pins maybe (and Optos are quite temperature sensitive)
10:25 AM Lcvette[m]: I'm leaving tiara bad drive or motor wire
10:25 AM Lcvette[m]: Easy test is swap xy drive see if problem follows
10:27 AM pcw-home: "dro keeps going while the axis just sits there" on one axis only sounds like hardware
10:31 AM Lcvette[m]: When my x motor direction wire went bad, it was hard to tell initially, it was very random and jogging was ok.. seemed the cutting vibration caused it to become evident
10:33 AM * Lcvette[m] uploaded an image: (139KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/SrvWoQKrfeqBfnkMmWMeVVmd/20230226_113153_8694790593286426127.jpg >
10:33 AM Lcvette[m]: This was the culprit motor
10:33 AM Lcvette[m]: Wire had broken just under the cover loom
10:41 AM c101horse8332[m]: went to do a dry run and video it for yall, and of course it did what its supposed to and not screwing up
10:42 AM Lcvette[m]: That's Murphys law
10:43 AM c101horse8332[m]: did find out its kind of easy to stall out, which is surprising because ive done way heavier cuts with these settings
10:44 AM _unreal_: just ordered ram for my all in one pc :) going from 8gb to 16... WOOO WOOOOO HEH... i5 PC but I do so much cad its time to upgrade
10:45 AM rmu: c101horse8332[m]: maybe you locked your axis?
10:47 AM c101horse8332[m]: dont think so, when the machine is off and the steppers arent holding it i can turn the leadscrew with two fingers
10:50 AM Lcvette[m]: What size motors?
10:50 AM rmu: stepper motors are prone to resonance issues that can lock a motor or lead to arbitrary step losses. maybe slower speed/acceleration settings will help. but it's also possible there is some other problem, like e.g. power supply
10:50 AM Lcvette[m]: Steppers? Servos?
10:51 AM Tom_L: mainspring
10:54 AM CloudEvil: Steam power.
10:54 AM CloudEvil: I have idly wondered about converting Keith Fenners massive metal planer into a bedflinger.
10:55 AM rmu: or maybe it's just too much. tool a littbe bit duller, ways more sticky because it is cold etc... and suddenly reserves are gone
10:55 AM CloudEvil: https://youtu.be/76xRkWhCbe8?t=281
10:59 AM JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avrY8JAkGA0
11:07 AM c101horse8332[m]: im using steppers, nema23
11:11 AM c101horse8332[m]: they were fine on my previous mill, which was way harder to move because it was old and worn
11:13 AM Lcvette[m]: What ozin, what drive, what power supply
11:15 AM Lcvette[m]: What microstep settings
11:16 AM c101horse8332[m]: its all the same as i had on the previous mill
11:17 AM c101horse8332[m]: https://nl.banggood.com/TWO-TREES-UNO-CNC-Kit-with-Controller-+-Shield-+-Nema-23-Stepper-Motors-+-TB6600-+-Limited-Switches-p-1679143.html?cur_warehouse=CN&ID=565876&rmmds=search
11:18 AM Tom_L: those steppers look kinda small
11:18 AM Lcvette[m]: Those are tiny
11:18 AM Lcvette[m]: Way to small for that application
11:18 AM c101horse8332[m]: x and y motors are those, the drives are those aswell, the z axis motor is a different one because the banggood ones werent torqy enough for the z axis on the previous mill
11:20 AM Lcvette[m]: That's not the right setup for that machine, you will be constantly plagued with lost steps
11:20 AM Lcvette[m]: X and y should have at least 5-600oz inch and z should have a 900ozin Nena 34
11:21 AM * c101horse8332[m] uploaded an image: (664KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/LskhwImbwJQzdIIIhFOMxDkr/IMG_20230226_181916.jpg >
11:21 AM c101horse8332[m]: Thats my z axis
11:21 AM Lcvette[m]: s/y/Y/, s/Nena/Nema/
11:22 AM Lcvette[m]: Amd the drives should be sized large enough to handle those motors
11:23 AM c101horse8332[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj2vyvYswy8&ab_channel=VG%26Desing thats the same mill i have, with that exact cnc motor mount kit
11:24 AM c101horse8332[m]: so what you're saying is, i need to dump more money in this pit and get some bigger motors and drives?
11:25 AM Lcvette[m]: I've been building and selling parts for these small mills for over a decade now, and I've seen every combination tried and can tell you with certainty, the specs I listed above for open loop steppers is what's needed for reliable operation
11:25 AM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253223632606
11:25 AM sensille: when the axis suddenly stops moving, is it possible that the driver just overheats?
11:25 AM Tom_L: c101horse8332[m], strap some of those on it
11:26 AM c101horse8332[m]: its not that, because itll run the other way just fine, i've had them overheat due to lack of sufficient cooling in the summer time
11:27 AM Lcvette[m]: I would invest in closed loop steppers and slip the open loop stuff, they run quieter, smoother, faster and no concerns with issues like this
11:27 AM Lcvette[m]: Ok
11:28 AM Lcvette[m]: But just be aware you'll continue to face these issues
11:28 AM sensille: i think "not that" was a response to my query re overheating
11:29 AM Lcvette[m]: Ah
11:29 AM sensille: a while ago solarwind talked me out of upgrading my steppers and going for pretty cheap closed loop steppers from stepperonline. i'm very very happy with that upgrade. a total gamechanger
11:31 AM sensille: (for a small router)
11:32 AM c101horse8332[m]: Id rather invest in actual servo's at that point tbh
11:32 AM * c101horse8332[m] uploaded a video: (6756KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/ipLknUrrNANRASzLRQgVRWSd/VID_20230226_182822.mp4 >
11:32 AM sensille: 70 euro for stepper+driver for a 2Nm one
11:33 AM c101horse8332[m]: i can hold the table and itll push itself over before it stalls
11:33 AM sensille: ah. can you increase the driver voltage?
11:34 AM c101horse8332[m]: but yeah probably
11:34 AM c101horse8332[m]: i'd have to get a different psu
11:34 AM c101horse8332[m]: i think i have a 48V one that used to be in a 500w fm broadcasting set
11:35 AM sensille: what voltage are you currently running at?
11:36 AM Tom_L: stay within the range of what the steppers can do
11:36 AM Tom_L: even with chopper drives
11:38 AM sensille: the steppers or the drivers?
11:38 AM Tom_L: both
11:38 AM Tom_L: i'm not sure how to calcualte it for the steppers but there is a limit
11:39 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/integrator/steppers.html
11:39 AM c101horse8332[m]: 24iirc since its the same psu as i have in the k40 laser
11:40 AM Tom_L: has to do with the motor inductance
11:42 AM sensille: i got those https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/de/ts-serie-2-0-nm-283-28oz-in-1-achse-closed-loop-stepper-cnc-kit-nema-23-motor-treiber-w-2m-kabel-1-cl57t-s20
11:44 AM sensille: or as 3Nm: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/de/ts-serie-3-0-nm-424-92oz-in-1-achse-closed-loop-stepper-cnc-kit-nema-23-motor-treiber-w-2m-kabel-1-cl57t-s30a
11:45 AM Lcvette[m]: That is very slow movement, that is in the torquiest bits of the motor and you have reduction it appears, torque falls off a cliff at higher speeds and as the motors and drives heat up
11:47 AM Lcvette[m]: I would replace them just so I could make parts faster than printing them. But I understand this is just a hobby for many so if it suits your requirements, that's really all that matters
11:47 AM Lcvette[m]: I will says I have never had much luck with the tb6600 boards
11:48 AM Lcvette[m]: They don't seem very robust residual on larger machine applications (larger than engraving machines)
11:49 AM c101horse8332[m]: Im jogging quicker than my feedrate, so it would be even stronger when cutting
11:52 AM Tom_L: no load during jogging
11:53 AM Tom_L: less load
11:53 AM Lcvette[m]: https://youtu.be/z7JMN_EYsWQ
11:53 AM c101horse8332[m]: I was literally leaning on the table trying to stop it, it started to push itself over
11:54 AM c101horse8332[m]: Those are the speeds id love to run
11:54 AM Lcvette[m]: My point is that you're limiting the potential of the machine
11:55 AM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trzO8H6tKW8
11:55 AM Tom_L: home build mill with good hardware
11:56 AM c101horse8332[m]: I guess ill just suck up and buy better motors and drivers
11:57 AM c101horse8332[m]: Hell, ill just go servo
11:57 AM Tom_L: you will need reduction
11:58 AM Lcvette[m]: 400w, 400w, 750w
11:58 AM Lcvette[m]: Direct drive
11:58 AM Lcvette[m]: No reduction needed
12:00 PM Lcvette[m]: Rapids will be safe around 300ipm~ much more and the dovetails are taking a beating
12:01 PM Tom_L: yeah, my rapids are around 210
12:01 PM Tom_L: which for me is fine
12:01 PM c101horse8332[m]: any recomendation that where i wont need to sell a kidney?
12:02 PM Tom_L: what are you looking for?
12:02 PM Tom_L: the steppers i posted was the best deal i could find anywhere
12:02 PM Tom_L: and when i got them they were 99
12:02 PM c101horse8332[m]: nah if im upgrading im upgrading to servo's for the closed loop
12:03 PM Lcvette[m]: There are some more economical units
12:03 PM Lcvette[m]: Hi Dear friend,how are you?... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e614d074a418475c038ed25d13c2b611491aa376>)
12:03 PM Lcvette[m]: That's from a quote on alibaba
12:04 PM c101horse8332[m]: im inclined to spend my OT and have the boss man order them for me
12:04 PM Lcvette[m]: Stay away from the integrated units
12:05 PM c101horse8332[m]: i may go with the ones my brother ordered to retrofit their hurco
12:05 PM Lcvette[m]: * Hi Dear friend,how are you?... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/4fc09bfe6a1e05893f2bf24c8a788974f3566f6b>)
12:05 PM sensille: what makes a 1.27Nm servo superior to a 3Nm stepper?
12:06 PM sensille: i never looked into servos, 400W sound like a lot of power for 1.27Nm
12:07 PM Lcvette[m]: While different animal
12:07 PM Lcvette[m]: s/While/Whole/
12:08 PM c101horse8332[m]: servo's do be amazing
12:08 PM Lcvette[m]: Open loop steppers are sized like 2 to 3 times over the actual motion force requirement to allow head room for being open loop and not losing steps
12:08 PM Lcvette[m]: But servos have a much more sophisticated control drive
12:08 PM sensille: i meant to a 3Nm closed loop stepper (as i linked above)
12:09 PM Lcvette[m]: It's adapting to load
12:09 PM Lcvette[m]: Speed
12:09 PM * JT-Shop goes to burnish the bowl one last time
12:09 PM Lcvette[m]: Power and torque curve
12:09 PM sensille: that does the closed loop stepper, too
12:09 PM Lcvette[m]: ?
12:10 PM Lcvette[m]: Steppers don't torn 5-6k rpm
12:10 PM Lcvette[m]: You get maybe 1500rpm on a well balanced unit
12:11 PM Lcvette[m]: Closer to 1k rpm in open loop scenarios
12:11 PM sensille: the closed loop steppers also have a more sophisticated control algorithm and they're adapting to load is what i responded to
12:11 PM Lcvette[m]: Not the same
12:11 PM Lcvette[m]: They're infinitely better than open loop steppers
12:12 PM sensille: so the main difference is torque at high speeds like 3k RPM
12:12 PM Lcvette[m]: And about the same again below servos
12:12 PM sensille: i don't talk about open loop steppers
12:12 PM sensille: ah, sorry
12:12 PM sensille: misread
12:12 PM * travis_farmer[m] wishes he could afford servos or closed-loop steppers, but has other worries to empty his wallet with...
12:12 PM Lcvette[m]: Resolution, smoothness of motion, much fiber resolution of encoder, and step input songs
12:13 PM sensille: (for my router is was step up from 1600mm/min to 12000mm/min)
12:13 PM c101horse8332[m]: i just want this damn thing working for once so i can make some parts to get my car back on the road
12:14 PM Lcvette[m]: Steppers are limited to 200 steps per rev accurate motion microsteps are not accurate and reduce torque capabilities
12:14 PM Lcvette[m]: c101horse🇳🇱: I cater to the small business using these machines for production
12:15 PM Lcvette[m]: Reliability, speed and power to make parts is the name of the game
12:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hey when did everyone jump on the closed loop and servo motor bandwagon?
12:17 PM sensille: i need to read more about them. although microsteps don't reduce torque, just don't increase accuracy that much (except with an encoder)
12:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 15 - 20 years ago everyone liked their steppers because of the loud sounds they make
12:18 PM sensille: :)
12:19 PM c101horse8332[m]: WEEEEeeEEEEEWEEEEWOOOOoooooooOOOooowoeeeeeeEEWWWEEEEEEoooeeoeEEWOEWeoeo
12:20 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (357KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/mEwbAvMtbHKRiCyCuXafacOx/20230226_121920.jpg >
12:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I rekon it's cause of the recent price drop in closed loop steppers
12:21 PM sensille: it's solely solarwinds fault
12:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or people still wouldn't care
12:23 PM c101horse8332[m]: @lcvette what frame size servo would you recomend?
12:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I reckin
12:25 PM Lcvette[m]: 400w 60mm xy
12:25 PM Lcvette[m]: 750w 80mm z
12:25 PM Lcvette[m]: For direct drive
12:25 PM Lcvette[m]: And a brake on z
12:25 PM Lcvette[m]: Unless you use a counterbalance
12:26 PM c101horse8332[m]: so, sounds like another 1000 to dump in this fuckin pit
12:26 PM Lcvette[m]: There's no of power holding torque with servos
12:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Lcvette: which pitch ball screws?
12:26 PM Lcvette[m]: Pretty sure Ernestine here is using c7 5mm screws
12:26 PM Lcvette[m]: s/Ernestine/everyone/
12:27 PM Lcvette[m]: Our the stock leads possibly
12:27 PM Lcvette[m]: s/Our/Or/
12:28 PM Lcvette[m]: c101horse🇳🇱: verify what you get is suitable for your power availability
12:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: CNC is not a hobby of mine so I don't know
12:29 PM c101horse8332[m]: power availability isnt too much of a problem, i've got 3phase if necessary
12:29 PM Lcvette[m]: Then be sure to verify voltage
12:29 PM c101horse8332[m]: the new mill is the first machine tool of mine that isnt 3phase
12:30 PM Lcvette[m]: Some real cheap Chinese servos are 380v
12:30 PM Lcvette[m]: They typically upcharge for 220v
12:30 PM Lcvette[m]: But your in Europe so I'm unfamiliar with what normal there in your area
12:31 PM c101horse8332[m]: 380/400V 3phase
12:31 PM roguish[m]1: c101horse🇳🇱: real servos are definitely superior to steppers. but they are a lot more work. I run dc brushed motors with amc digital drives. 63v. there is the motor-driver tuning, and then there is the linuxcnc tuning. it gets tricky
12:31 PM roguish[m]1: most important is to know your expectations
12:31 PM Lcvette[m]: c101horse🇳🇱: then you should be able to find some really great deals
12:32 PM c101horse8332[m]: ill leave the tuning part to my brother since thats his line of work most of the time
12:32 PM Lcvette[m]: I run my big machine in open loop to mesa except the z index for homing
12:32 PM Lcvette[m]: It does great
12:33 PM Lcvette[m]: Simple step direction
12:33 PM roguish[m]1: c101horse🇳🇱: I started with direct drive: motor connected to ball screw. But I just added 3:1 reduction because the motors perform much better at higher speed. improves the accuracy a lot.
12:35 PM Lcvette[m]: I saw this 5 flute alumacut endmill on a vendor's website and I love their 3 flute tooling so I thought I would give it a shot! I'm glad I did it really helps the 6k rpm spindle limitation on this machine.. cut sounds buttery smooth standing in front of the machine. I think it could stand a little more width of cut still, that was 0.040" stepover, 1.140" DOC, 6k rpm 0.0067ipt, 200ipm feed... that's the soft limit I had entered in my
12:35 PM Lcvette[m]: control configuration.. may need to re-evaluate that..lol. lovin it!
12:35 PM Lcvette[m]: #cncporn #cncmilling #cnc #cncspindle #cncmachining #benchtopmachinist #benchtopcnc #instamachinist #instamachining #diycnc #xk7130vmc #linuxcnc #cncgui #qtdesigner5 #qtpyvcp #probebasic #kurt_manufacturing #kurtvise #kurtvises #alumacut #carbidetoolsource #5fluteendmill
12:35 PM Lcvette[m]: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CVPDa58ACrG/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
12:37 PM c101horse8332[m]: im honestly not sure i even want to continue with this machine
12:55 PM c101horse8332[m]: @lcvette would 600W with brake be enough for the z axis? i found some ac servo's for not toooo much on the nema24/60ast frame size that look like they'd fit on the current mounts(i'd have to order some pulleys to fit the shafts to make it either 1:1 or a slight reduction)
12:58 PM jpa-: if it has the needed torque, 600W in power should be enough for anything except huge machines
01:00 PM _unreal_: ya its hot outside today
01:02 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, what's it like in May there?
01:02 PM Tom_L: hotter?
01:05 PM c101horse8332[m]: dang it, the servo's with brakes have to come from china, which will take its sweet ass time
01:05 PM c101horse8332[m]: ie, itll be here late april
01:05 PM Tom_L: but you get the chinaco discount!
01:06 PM c101horse8332[m]: i dont have time to sit around waiting that long
01:07 PM c101horse8332[m]: i kinda need to have my currently sitting car back on the road by then, since the daily needs quite a bit of welding and work done before half of august
01:07 PM Tom_L: just get in before the chinese newyear
01:08 PM Tom_L: that may be past now, i forget when exactly it is
01:09 PM Tom_L: 15 days starting the 5th
01:09 PM Tom_L: or thereabouts
01:09 PM Tom_L: err maybe the 5th is the end of it
01:21 PM rmu: c101horse8332[m]: get some closed loop nema34 steppers
01:22 PM rmu: there are sets on amazon for ~450€/3 axis including power supplies
01:24 PM c101horse8332[m]: are they powerful enough for direct drive?
01:26 PM rmu: 9Nm?
01:27 PM c101horse8332[m]: 8.5
01:27 PM rmu: that is the limit what steppers can do
01:27 PM Lcvette[m]: c101horse🇳🇱: 600w would be fine most likely, especially if you were using a reducer drive like you have mpow
01:27 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:30 PM Lcvette[m]: i use a 1200oz inch closed loop stepper on my machine but it also has an additonal 120lbs over factory configuration
01:30 PM Lcvette[m]: it runs direct drive no problem at 200ipm
01:30 PM Lcvette[m]: with no counter balance system
01:30 PM Lcvette[m]: has never once faulted on me
01:31 PM rmu: c101horse8332[m]: 8Nm with 5mm ball-spindle will get you about a kN of force. caveat emptor. IANAE.
01:31 PM Lcvette[m]: for servo direct drive i might consider the 600w but you will eventually update the spindle motor if you want some more capability so i would plan with that in mind
01:31 PM rmu: maybe I forgot faktor of pi or 2pi
01:31 PM c101horse8332[m]: i had upgrading the spindle motor in mind
01:32 PM c101horse8332[m]: i dont have ball spindles
01:32 PM Lcvette[m]: with good axis drive motors and good spindle setup these small machines are work horses
01:32 PM c101horse8332[m]: i just need to make some functional parts for now
01:32 PM Lcvette[m]: youre on the stock screws?
01:32 PM c101horse8332[m]: yeah
01:32 PM c101horse8332[m]: thing is pmuch brand new
01:33 PM c101horse8332[m]: there's maybe 10 hours on it
01:33 PM Lcvette[m]: ah.. then i would step back and consider things from a different angle
01:33 PM Lcvette[m]: especially if your not sure if you want to keep the machine
01:33 PM Lcvette[m]: servos and stock lead screws aren't a great fit
01:33 PM Lcvette[m]: way too fast, they will wear those screws out in short order
01:34 PM c101horse8332[m]: im considering an angle where drag the thing out to pasture and put it out of its misery with a can of gas and a match
01:35 PM Lcvette[m]: they require a significant investment in time, money and patience to be sure
01:35 PM Lcvette[m]: but i would say serrvos and screws are a matched purchase
01:35 PM Lcvette[m]: or servos now with intent to update to screws later
01:36 PM c101horse8332[m]: i had this planned out as upgrading as i went along, but so far im several grand in the hole and still have a machine that only manages to produce chips and scrap material
01:39 PM Lcvette[m]: I tell all my customers that realistically they should plan on $8-10k to turn a G0704 into a mild production machine
01:39 PM c101horse8332[m]: i dont even need to run production, just as a hobby
01:39 PM c101horse8332[m]: i should've bought a cnc machine to start with
01:39 PM Lcvette[m]: The end goal doesnt really change
01:40 PM Lcvette[m]: Reliable use will cost the same
01:41 PM Lcvette[m]: My G0704 paid for my big mill and turning center
01:41 PM c101horse8332[m]: sigh 😔
01:41 PM c101horse8332[m]: how much does a stock out of the box g0704 set one back?
01:42 PM Lcvette[m]: But it cost me 3 years of figuring out what it needed to do that ...
01:42 PM Lcvette[m]: Now days? $2500 here
01:43 PM c101horse8332[m]: hmm, still cheaper than what i payed for this wabeco
01:43 PM Lcvette[m]: Thay wabeco looks much nicer quality
01:43 PM Lcvette[m]: Appears to be similar in size
01:43 PM Lcvette[m]: Whats the work envelope?
01:44 PM Lcvette[m]: Or model and i can look up
01:44 PM c101horse8332[m]: with dovetail guides... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/3bdf7df95017ca2a18882c1737daaaf563d166e3>)
01:45 PM c101horse8332[m]: wabeco f1210 with the optional sk30 spindle instead of the mt2 spindle it comes with stock
01:45 PM c101horse8332[m]: https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/milling%20machine%20f1210%20-1882.html
01:48 PM Lcvette[m]: oh thats a baby
01:48 PM Lcvette[m]: yes 600w would be plenty fine
01:48 PM Lcvette[m]: probably 400w maybe even
01:49 PM c101horse8332[m]: yeah it aint that big, but plenty for what i want to do at home
01:50 PM JT-Shop: adjustable jig stop done... now to finish the circle jig
01:51 PM Lcvette[m]: c101horse🇳🇱: how much for the servos you found?
01:51 PM c101horse8332[m]: https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004868804234.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.60cb61d7YIuUD3&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2nld
01:51 PM c101horse8332[m]: bout 260 ish for the 600w with brake
01:52 PM XXCoder: wow interesting
01:53 PM c101horse8332[m]: xy axis on the wabeco has 4mm trapezoidal screws
01:53 PM Lcvette[m]: thats not bad at all
01:53 PM c101horse8332[m]: z axis is 2mm
01:53 PM Lcvette[m]: close enough to the price of closed loop steppers to bump up
01:54 PM Lcvette[m]: you could use with those screws but you need to limit the speed
01:54 PM c101horse8332[m]: and those servo's being st60 they're close enough to nema 23 i could use the same mounts as im currently using
01:54 PM XXCoder: jt nice work on bowl
01:55 PM c101horse8332[m]: even length wise they should just about fit
01:55 PM Lcvette[m]: they will have different diameter alignment boss on the face and different bolt pattern and most definitely different shaft size
01:56 PM c101horse8332[m]: only problem is the one with the brake on it for the Z axis has to come from china and wont be here before the end of next month
01:56 PM Lcvette[m]: usually 14mm shaft on 60mm frame
01:57 PM c101horse8332[m]: correct, i do have a boring head and a mill tho, i mean, i can just put the handwheels back on for some quick and dirty work
01:57 PM Lcvette[m]: yeah, 14mm shaft, 50mm alignment boss and 70mm bolt circle
02:00 PM c101horse8332[m]: nema23 bolt cirle is 69(hehe) so thats close enough that just enlarging the holes would make it fit
02:01 PM c101horse8332[m]: 14mm hole can be bored out on my lathe, i might even have a 14mm reamer kicking about. and i do know someone with a broaching set
02:04 PM Lcvette[m]: may have to shave the heads down, they are a tight fit to the body usually
02:09 PM rmu: got a used brother drill/tap center for <1k€
02:11 PM c101horse8332[m]: what heads to what body?
02:16 PM XXCoder: gonna love frank
02:16 PM XXCoder: on his cnc router "that is what it looks like if it runs finishing pass first"
02:26 PM Lcvette[m]: c101horse🇳🇱: the socket heads, turn them down slightly
02:28 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder, thanks
02:31 PM XXCoder: lol someday i want to comission one
02:39 PM JT-Shop: a bowl?
02:39 PM XXCoder: yep
02:42 PM c101horse8332[m]: Aight, ok. Looking at those ac servo's again im seeing 3000-6000rpm, that sounds a bit much
02:42 PM c101horse8332[m]: You reckon it'd be ok?
03:05 PM JT-Shop: you just need a carvers mallet and a curved chisel
03:07 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, so what's the next one gonna be?
03:07 PM JT-Shop: similar but without mistooks I hope
03:07 PM JT-Shop: learned a lot with this one
03:07 PM JT-Shop: making a circle cutting jig for the bandsaw
03:07 PM Tom_L: i thought things aligned pretty well
03:07 PM JT-Shop: hard to see the mistakes :)
03:08 PM JT-Shop: some you can only feel
03:08 PM Tom_L: i can overlook some
03:08 PM Tom_L: i'm sure mine would look alot worse
03:08 PM JT-Shop: practice, practice...
03:09 PM Tom_L: i think the last time i was on a wood lathe was in HS
03:09 PM JT-Shop: I'll take a photo of my first bowl if I can find it
03:10 PM Bushman: hi
03:12 PM Bushman: after compiling the missing component for my pendant i've encountered another issue i'm not sure how to diagnose...
03:12 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (219KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/LYOcvxXeYLvLGnchntSgfbzi/20230226_151111_8020742648061380100.jpg >
03:12 PM XXCoder: test?
03:12 PM Bushman: the loadusr -W xhc-whb04b-6 -ue runs but never finds the device
03:13 PM Bushman: init not waiting for device XHC-WHB04B-6 vendorId=0x10ce productId=0xeb93, will continue in 0s .........Waiting for component 'xhc-whb04b-6' to become ready.....
03:13 PM Bushman: it never does
03:13 PM Bushman: even tho i can see the device in lsusb
03:14 PM Bushman: oh, wait...
03:14 PM Bushman: i think i remembered something...
03:14 PM Tom_L: JT[m], was the grain split anyway?
03:14 PM Bushman: i think i need to add udev rules first
03:15 PM Tom_L: Bushman, got rights to usb?
03:16 PM Bushman: yes. but i think there was something about adding rules that i've forgot... i'm looking for this in the docs now.
03:17 PM Bushman: JT[m]: how was this bowl made?
03:20 PM JT-Shop: on my lathe
03:21 PM c101horse8332[m]: @lcvette what was the reason for needing a servo with brake on the Z axis?
03:21 PM travis_farmer[m]: no hold-back, keeps your Z from crashing down
03:25 PM Bushman: I was trying to turn a bowl too... either i've used improperly dried wood or something else went horribly wrong cause it has split on me
03:26 PM Bushman: except mine split up the top, from the rim of the bowl down
03:26 PM travis_farmer[m]: a lot of my fathers bowls split too, or warped
03:26 PM Bushman: this only shows i have no idea what i'm doing XD
03:27 PM Bushman: could that have been because of overheating during sanding?
03:27 PM Bushman: cause i think it split while i was sanding it
03:27 PM Bushman: i'm a begginer woodworker so i have no idea what i did wrong
03:28 PM Bushman: maybe except the fact i turned it like you did, endgrain on the sides
03:28 PM Bushman: but i've seen people on youtube get away with it
03:31 PM JT-Shop: usually end grain bowls are done with green wood then the bowl is tossed in a box to see if it will dry without cracking
03:31 PM Bushman: oh, not nice...
03:31 PM Bushman: init claiming interface ...
03:31 PM Bushman: failed to claim interface
03:31 PM JT-Shop: most of my bowls are segment bowls or like the dizzy bowl from earlier
03:32 PM Bushman: i think a reboot is in order before i start looking for reasons it might not work
03:32 PM travis_farmer[m]: i think my father used chunks of firewood for some of his bowls..
03:33 PM JT-Shop: there is some good bowls in firewood if you can find them
03:33 PM travis_farmer[m]: https://www.tjfhome.net/community/index.php?media/categories/work-pictures.11/ some of his work
03:34 PM Bushman: brb
03:35 PM JT-Shop: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/calling-any-one-from-missouri.73271/page-1616
03:35 PM JT-Shop: Warning: Potential Security Risk Ahead
03:35 PM JT-Shop: Firefox detected a potential security threat and did not continue to www.tjfhome.net. If you visit this site, attackers could try to steal information like your passwords, emails, or credit card details.
03:35 PM JT-Shop: The issue is most likely with the website, and there is nothing you can do to resolve it. You can notify the website’s administrator about the problem.
03:36 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i screwed up my SSL cert, change to just tjfhome.net, without the www
03:40 PM JT-Shop: I dropped the https
03:40 PM JT-Shop: your father does some nice work
03:41 PM travis_farmer[m]: that works too ;-)
03:41 PM travis_farmer[m]: thanks, i will tell him :-)
03:46 PM InnerBushman[m]: The bowl looks awesome
03:47 PM travis_farmer[m]: to whom are you refering?
03:47 PM Bushman: the one in the link with chickens
03:47 PM Bushman: in the post by jthornton
03:48 PM XXCoder: pretty cool https://youtube.com/shorts/SgwtInGeEP8?feature=share (usually dont like that channel but yeah)
03:48 PM XXCoder: 3d printed clamps to do final stage of sphere in cube frame milling
03:49 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (283KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/lRRUxXbOfWOrrYWJNLLjinvx/20230226_154822_5878643496006060537.jpg >
03:50 PM JT[m]: I use this to sand to final shape
03:50 PM Bushman: XXCoder: that's actually pretty cool. i guess in the past they would just mill out the jaws instead of 3D printing them.
03:50 PM XXCoder: yeah
03:51 PM XXCoder: i wonder which is cheaper
03:51 PM Bushman: i guess the 3D printing
03:51 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:51 PM Bushman: depending on material/technology it might be way cheaper than two blocks of aluminium
03:51 PM XXCoder: yeah think so
03:52 PM Bushman: btw, the pendant works!!!
03:52 PM Bushman: :D
03:52 PM XXCoder: nice
03:52 PM Bushman: who will win, 2784 lines of code? or one ','?
03:52 PM Bushman: :D
03:53 PM Bushman: ok, so now i just have to nicely document what i did today and do the same tomorow at work.
03:53 PM Bushman: in the meantime i can safely order my own pendant for my personal CNC :P
03:53 PM Bushman: now that i know it will work on my OS :)
03:54 PM Bushman: tho i'm not out of the woods yet...
03:54 PM Bushman: my config was imported from older version and had to be converted
03:54 PM Bushman: i'll only know what broke tomorow, after i recompile the linuxcnc and try to run it with my old config XD
03:55 PM Bushman: wish me luck, i'm gonna need it!
03:55 PM * xxcoder8265[m] uploaded an image: (1158KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/HrTLMMQBosTTlmHHWRIvgYAg/image.png >
03:55 PM xxcoder8265[m]: reminder that clickspring shop floor is tiny lol
03:55 PM Bushman: yea, that amazes me
03:55 PM Bushman: but on the other hand he doesn't work with wood that much so no wonder
03:56 PM XXCoder: true
03:56 PM Bushman: all my metal working tools would fit in his workspace too
03:56 PM Bushman: but my cheap tablesaw is just always in the way in the middle of my garage
03:57 PM Bushman: and when i say garage, i mean like one of those post-communist garages built in the row with enough room for a small car and nothing else
03:57 PM Bushman: and i still have to keep my motorcycle somewhere XD
03:59 PM XXCoder: :D
03:59 PM Bushman: https://ireland.apollo.olxcdn.com/v1/files/mvumzz19e56x2-PL/image;s=1000x700
03:59 PM Bushman: about that much room
03:59 PM XXCoder: interesting
04:17 PM Bushman: this is my garage/workshop after i've put in my new table i made:
04:17 PM Bushman: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Xd4unsx4junA18mN7
04:18 PM Bushman: but before i've put all the junk back in! "D
04:18 PM Bushman: * :D
04:18 PM XXCoder: nice basic shop tablke
04:18 PM Bushman: https://photos.app.goo.gl/eWEs5JLxboPyjzAw6
04:19 PM Bushman: so as you can imagine, it hasn't been that clean for long lol
04:19 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (196KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/SmcoeRndSkJePKStEjuoxNfB/20230226_161733.jpg >
04:19 PM XXCoder: made a sled I see
04:19 PM XXCoder: is that circle jig?
04:21 PM Bushman: nice
04:22 PM Bushman: i need to redo my router table tho... i've used C channel but not the T nut type but one completely open
04:22 PM Bushman: https://photos.app.goo.gl/StKzECvw9wYxeoZ8A
04:22 PM Bushman: i don't know why is this in potato-vison
04:23 PM Bushman: https://photos.app.goo.gl/PVwYzHc43LhBaLiL9
04:25 PM Bushman: since almost all my power tools were Erbauer brand, i've decided to also get anErbauer router. that was a huge mistake on my part.
04:25 PM Bushman: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mobc7y2jy8Mg5rpU8
04:25 PM Bushman: this stupid base cannot be removed
04:26 PM XXCoder: thats cool
04:26 PM Bushman: so i had to improvise and i've CNC milled this base
04:26 PM Bushman: https://photos.app.goo.gl/vzjL3yRhLaxu1jmf9
04:26 PM Bushman: that i've later embedded into the table
04:27 PM Bushman: https://photos.app.goo.gl/zKVLPHCNyoYdNUwSA
04:27 PM Bushman: (don't mind the random plywood motorized table on the floor ^_^' )
04:28 PM XXCoder: lol
04:29 PM Bushman: yea, that was my CNC table before upgrade
04:29 PM Bushman: M8 allthread XD
04:33 PM Bushman: i have upgraded it with proper ball screws since then.
04:34 PM XXCoder: hey its always good to plan. my orginal plan was to build wood router to build better wood router
04:34 PM XXCoder: my design would be able to make large enough sections to make much larger router
04:36 PM Bushman: yup
04:36 PM Bushman: https://photos.app.goo.gl/WAD4va1pDVCaZYwVA
04:36 PM Bushman: this was work in progress
04:37 PM Bushman: now it's in a shape where i can ask it to make aluminum parts for itself
04:38 PM Bushman: new ballscrews, 4Nm motors with encoder feedback.
04:38 PM Bushman: proper bearing blocks lol
04:38 PM Bushman: and not some random bearings pressed into piece of plywood lol
04:40 PM roycroft: i made a new lamp frame design with some fancy japanese joinery
04:41 PM roycroft: roycroft.us/15.75x9.125-Lamp-Frame-Assembly.jpeg
04:43 PM roycroft: it's kind of hard to see the joints, but the lower rails are using sparrow's beak joints
04:43 PM roycroft: and the upper rails are using offset mitered joints
04:43 PM roycroft: zoom in and you can see the details
04:44 PM roycroft: i'm going to hand cut the joinery for a prototype, and if i like it, then the fun begins - figuring out how to jig a production run
04:45 PM roycroft: it would be impossible to make money cutting those joints by hand
04:46 PM Bushman: roycroft: kumiko andon?
04:47 PM Bushman: i want to make one for myself.
04:47 PM roycroft: yes
04:47 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:47 PM Bushman: i even have one kumiko project behind me.
04:47 PM Bushman: https://imgur.com/gallery/SfHNKOh
04:48 PM Bushman: i know how much work it is man
04:48 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder, is the connection from matrix broken?
04:48 PM roycroft: roycroft.us/Andon
04:48 PM roycroft: it's a lot of work, indeed
04:49 PM xxcoder8265[m]: hello from discord
04:49 PM XXCoder: discord data routes though matrix so it should work
04:49 PM JT[m]: Hi
04:49 PM InnerBushman[m]: hello from discord back
04:49 PM * JT[m] uploaded an image: (196KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/ZTBJYRDEMuurGaKpMycvDots/20230226_161733.jpg >
04:50 PM XXCoder: dang roy thats awesome joinery
04:50 PM XXCoder: jt i saw that earlier it worked fine
04:50 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Shoji-Lamp/
04:50 PM roycroft: there's a finished lamp
04:50 PM JT-Shop: ok
04:51 PM XXCoder: i asked if it was circle jig ;)
04:51 PM JT-Shop: for some reason none of that showed up on my phone
04:52 PM XXCoder: weird
04:52 PM InnerBushman[m]: speaking of joinery... i wanna try this joint I designed based on a very similar but not symmetrical joint
04:52 PM InnerBushman[m]: https://i.imgur.com/wLzUDv0.png
04:52 PM JT-Shop: but yeah it's a circle jig for the band saw
04:52 PM XXCoder: nice
04:52 PM InnerBushman[m]: https://i.imgur.com/ClaBu55.png
04:52 PM XXCoder: zelda symbol joinery? ;)
04:52 PM XXCoder: nice
04:53 PM Bushman: the first time i've seen it was here:
04:53 PM Bushman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKJI_f44v0E
04:53 PM XXCoder: I recreated 2 of japan unusual joinery a while ago
04:53 PM Bushman: but i didn't like it's not square to square, but rather 2x4 or something like that
04:53 PM roycroft: i should do an exploded view of the new lamp design
04:53 PM roycroft: or maybe keep it a secret :)
04:54 PM Bushman: roycroft: yes you should. so we can apreciate the intricacy of the joint better
04:54 PM JT-Shop: your secret is safe with me
04:54 PM Bushman: :D
04:54 PM XXCoder: lol
04:54 PM Bushman: it's even safer with me...
04:54 PM Bushman: ... i have a terrible memory.
04:54 PM Bushman: XD
04:55 PM XXCoder: https://www.printables.com/model/226309-mysterious-japan-joinery https://www.printables.com/model/231986-sumiyoshi-double-tendon
04:55 PM XXCoder: 2 models I did
04:55 PM XXCoder: mystery japan joinery is bit too loose but if printed, its bit of fun desktop puzzle
04:55 PM roycroft: i'm just pretty happy to have finally made/found the time to do some cad work
04:55 PM roycroft: it's been months since i've done much of any of that kind of work
04:56 PM roycroft: but with this election done i may have a bit of time to myself now
04:57 PM roycroft: btw, i didn't track my time super accurately, but between november 28 of last year and february 19 of this year i've put in between 375 and 400 hours working on that special election
04:57 PM roycroft: and keep in mind that i have a full-time job as well
05:02 PM XXCoder: busy
05:02 PM XXCoder: well nice to have time now
05:03 PM Rab: roycroft, at this rate the taxpayers might save money by hiring you for the office.
05:05 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, did you see the circle jig for the band saw?
05:06 PM roycroft: yes, looks good
05:06 PM roycroft: i need to make one for mine
05:06 PM JT-Shop: I've not tried it yet
05:17 PM roycroft: it looks like it will work well
05:17 PM JT-Shop: thanks
05:18 PM roycroft: i think i'm going to rough cut some parts for making that lamp frame
05:18 PM roycroft: i really want to make a prototype and see how the joinery looks in real life
05:18 PM roycroft: it looks great in cad
05:18 PM roycroft: but so do many things
05:19 PM JT-Shop: lol
06:28 PM saquzi: Would someone smarter than me tell, what is the problem with my axis homing using index+home switch? The current problem is that when trying to home axis,it trips the home switch, tries to find the index but does not find it. Can see the index in halshow
06:28 PM saquzi: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/48260-7i97-7i85-bit-file?start=20#265457
06:30 PM saquzi: current hal file in the latest post.. Its a bit mess all of the experiments are on the bottom half in "axis z JOINT 2"..
06:31 PM saquzi: We have been bashing our heads for few hours trying to get this to work, but no luck still, maybe it would be better to go to sleep at this point (14hours straight with this thing once again)
06:38 PM XXCoder: hi
06:38 PM XXCoder: oh guy left
06:40 PM SAQUZ1: No just changed computer
06:41 PM XXCoder: oh ok :)
06:41 PM XXCoder: hopefully someone will answer soonish
06:41 PM Tom_L: maybe HOME_LATCH_VEL should be negative
06:42 PM Tom_L: trip the home switch then back off it a bit
06:42 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/NEW_MILL_SHOP_2.8.4/new_mill.ini
06:42 PM Tom_L: that's how i do it
06:44 PM Tom_L: also
06:44 PM Tom_L: Z should home before X and Y
06:44 PM Tom_L: change Z HOME_SEQUENCE = 0
06:45 PM Tom_L: or you will run into problems eventually
06:45 PM Tom_L: that gets Z out of the way for X & Y in case you have fixtures etc in the way
06:46 PM pcw-home: Looks like you have not connected the index enables to LinuxCNC
06:48 PM Tom_L: does the 7i97 do home on index?
06:48 PM Tom_L: not familiar with that one
06:50 PM SAQUZ1: any idea what it shoould be.. We currently have only z-index-enable <= hm2_7i97.0.encoder.08.input-index => pid.2.index.enable (pretty sure the pid.2... is wrong atleast)
06:52 PM SAQUZ1: halshow will show z-index-enable at indexing point but it will not stop to it after changing the direction after tripping home switch
06:52 PM Tom_L: net x-index-enable joint.0.index-enable <=> hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.index-enable
06:52 PM Tom_L: as an example
06:52 PM Tom_L: if you're using the stepgen index enable that is
06:54 PM Tom_L: net x-index-enable => pid.x.index-enable
06:56 PM Tom_L: and the mode needs to be set in the bitfile iirc
06:56 PM Tom_L: that's a pcw question
06:56 PM SAQUZ1: "net z-index-enable => pid.2.index-enable" currently. we have only Z servo hooked up and powered fully so we do minimal catastrophe if it will occur :D
06:59 PM pcw-home: needs to connect to joint.2.index-enable (or LinuxCNC cannot set it when it needs to search for index)
07:02 PM SAQUZ1: net z-index-enable => joint.2.index-enable should it be like this? does not change a thing, should there be something else too
07:15 PM pcw-home: That's necessary for homing to index
07:17 PM pcw-home: Also need homing to index to be enabled in the ini file
07:17 PM pcw-home: and the hardware index enable from the encoder connected to the same index enable
07:18 PM SAQUZ1: home_use_index = yes also
07:19 PM pcw-home: so when linuxcnc finds the home switch, it should set index enable to tell the hardware to enable index detection
07:20 PM pcw-home: when the hardware finds the index it set index enable false (this falling edge informs linuxcnc that the index has been detected)
07:21 PM pcw-home: This should be easy to plot with halscope for debugging
07:24 PM Lcvette[m]: Is this with the firmware like mine?
07:26 PM Lcvette[m]: If so, I documented it here:
07:26 PM SAQUZ1: Lcvette[m] using 7i97+7i85+3x8i20
07:27 PM Lcvette[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/48222-hal-help-for-home-to-index-with-stepgen-firmware-update
07:27 PM Lcvette[m]: Ah not stepgen
07:27 PM Lcvette[m]: Feedback mode analog
07:28 PM Lcvette[m]: Disregard
07:36 PM SAQUZ1: Sooo i should connect [HMOT](CARD0).encoder.08input-index to the joint.2... and z-index-ena... but how exactly? Think we uswd all combinations we could imqagine but every time some error occured
07:42 PM Tom_L: SAQUZ1, make a net
07:43 PM Tom_L: net mynet [HMOT](CARD0).encoder.08input-index z-index-enable or whatever the signals are called
07:43 PM Tom_L: or pins
07:43 PM Tom_L: and if the pid is part of it, add that to the line as well
07:44 PM Tom_L: lcnc knows if they are inputs or outputs
07:55 PM SAQUZ1: every combo there is just something always linked to some else pin etc.. I Have to investigate this more in the morning, already 4am here:X Thanks for all the help thoúgh, im pretty sure i will figure it out with all of this once i fiddle it a round a bit.
07:56 PM Tom_L: if you have something used already on a net, use that net and add in the ones you need
07:57 PM Tom_L: as long is there is only one source signal
08:07 PM pcw-home: Yes just one signal connects all per joint index enables
08:09 PM pcw-home: Tom_L actually in this case I think there are 3 source signals for index-enable: encoder, bldc and joint
08:10 PM Tom_L: hmm
08:10 PM Tom_L: that signal is bidirectional isn't it?
08:10 PM Tom_L: yeah i kinda remember that from Lcvette's file
08:11 PM Tom_L: but he was using stepgen iirc
08:27 PM pcw-home: yes, all index enable pins are bidirectional
09:53 PM Lcvette[m]: pcw-home: is there a method to smooth out the spindle speed display so it isn't bouncing so fast?
09:54 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:58 PM pcw-home: usually that's done by adding a low pass filter
10:00 PM Lcvette[m]: yup
10:00 PM Lcvette[m]: i just found a thread you answered in
10:00 PM Lcvette[m]: 😄
10:00 PM pcw-home: (To the encoder velocity pin before its displayed)
10:04 PM Lcvette[m]: setp scale.0.gain 60... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/158b40253e10cc92c2c1af7dba1e3a6cc9085396>)
10:04 PM Lcvette[m]: Like so correct? ^^^
10:06 PM pcw-home: yeah like that (though you don't actually need scale anymore)
10:06 PM Lcvette[m]: 😲
10:07 PM pcw-home: (because the driver has output RPM values for a few years now)
10:08 PM pcw-home: (in addition to the RPS values)
10:08 PM * Lcvette[m] uploaded an image: (27KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/DxNVJpmgBwzyaktxRmayGIsf/image.png >
10:08 PM Lcvette[m]: sothis can be deleted?
10:09 PM * Lcvette[m] uploaded an image: (73KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/VIuUKzKWumwjqHPZwPYPQUIN/image.png >
10:09 PM Lcvette[m]: or is needed because of rps
10:09 PM Lcvette[m]: now im confused
10:11 PM Lcvette[m]: or are you saying that this can be cleaned up some?
10:11 PM pcw-home: If you are confused, just leave it ( the scale to RPM operation is included in the encoder code now)
10:11 PM Lcvette[m]: ok
10:12 PM pcw-home: so the encoder has 2 velocity pins
10:12 PM Lcvette[m]: lol
10:12 PM pcw-home: RPS and RPM
10:15 PM pcw-home: I guess they are called .velocity (in RPS) and .velocity-rpm
10:16 PM Lcvette[m]: im trying to reimagine this flow
10:16 PM Lcvette[m]: im a visual learner so takes me a little while to sort things out
10:18 PM pcw-home: was encoder.velocity --> scaleX60.in --ScaleX60.out --> wherever_RPM_goes
10:19 PM pcw-home: now encoder.velocity-rpm --> wherever_RPM_goes
10:19 PM Lcvette[m]: 😄
10:19 PM Lcvette[m]: thanks Peter
10:20 PM pcw-home: night
10:20 PM Lcvette[m]: night
10:25 PM mrec: does anyone know can a spot drill cut nice round holes into sheet metal?
10:34 PM Lcvette[m]: completely depends ont he quality of the spot drill and the work holding of the sheet metal
10:34 PM Lcvette[m]: and of course the machine using the spot drill
10:35 PM Lcvette[m]: if the sheet metal is firmly held on a surface and has a sacrificial spoil board underneath it it will help keep the hole clean and support the drill as it moves completely through the sheet metal
10:37 PM Lcvette[m]: as for really round holes, how round? whats the application
10:37 PM Lcvette[m]: you need concentricity in what tolerance?