#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 06 2023

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:01 AM Deejay: moin
03:13 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning
04:16 AM c101horse8332[m]: Moin
04:21 AM rmu: CaptHindsight[m]: regarding wiki / forum and "newer" rpi4 hardware, I have no idea.
04:30 AM Tom_L: morning
04:49 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:58 AM travis_farmer[m]: Off-topic: just learned there are in fact freshwater jellyfish: https://vtinvasives.org/news-events/news/freshwater-jellyfish-are-they-real-native-or-invasive just a bit of useless trivia for your morning cup of coffee. :-)
07:07 AM * travis_farmer[m] has some Mesa goodies out for delivery in today's mail :-) :-)
07:14 AM rmu: travis_farmer[m]: i have seen freshwater jellyfish in a former quarry that is now flooded and a noted diving area
07:15 AM travis_farmer[m]: that is interesting... i wonder how they got in there
07:20 AM rmu: waterfowl probably
09:09 AM Loetmichel_: rmu: yeah, probably some water-landing birds that carried them in accidentally
09:09 AM rmu: Loetmichel_: they do it on purpose
09:10 AM Loetmichel_: they do? interesting.
09:17 AM Loetmichel_ is now known as Loetmichel
10:14 AM travis_farmer[m]: not sure if i have sserial setup correctly: loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="10.10.10.10" config=" num_encoders=0 num_pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=4 sserial_port_0=21xxxxxx" using sserial sockets 1 and 2 for a 7i70 and 7i73 respectfully, via a 7i44 connected to the first socket (P1) in my 7i80HD-16
10:19 AM travis_farmer[m]: it isn't picking up the boards or configuring the port when i RIP and look at the terminal output
10:21 AM JT-Cave: did you flash with the correct firmware
10:21 AM travis_farmer[m]: to what?
10:22 AM JT-Cave: 7i80
10:22 AM travis_farmer[m]: didn't know i had to...
10:23 AM JT-Cave: yup you have to have the firmware that matches what is plugged into the ports
10:23 AM travis_farmer[m]: Hmmm... i was told that the sserial boards would auto configure...
10:24 AM JT-Cave: and they do
10:25 AM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm, mesact doesn't pickup boards for 7i80hd... have to do it the old way i guess
10:27 AM JT-Cave: what do you mean by pickup boards?
10:28 AM travis_farmer[m]: it doesn't list the daughter boards avail for 7i80hd
10:28 AM roguish[m]: travis_farmer: gotta remember RTFM, don't assume much of anything.....
10:28 AM JT-Cave: only a few sometimes depends on the firmware selected
10:29 AM JT-Cave: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/28103-firmware-for-7i80-ssi-7i48-7i84
10:29 AM * JT-Cave heads to work
10:41 AM sensille: feeds and speeds question: any advice on this? https://i.imgur.com/QUkyuXN.jpg no idea if wood chips are supposed to look like this
10:41 AM travis_farmer[m]: having a hard time keeping from destroying something here... i was told that i just plug the board in, and add the setting in the hal file, and it would load right in. now i have a couple hundred $$ of boards about to be smashed :-(
10:45 AM rmu: buy uber-flexible hardware that interfaces to nearly anything imaginable only to rage-destroy it immediately after figuring out it has to be configured. funny.
10:46 AM rmu: sensille: is that the finished surface?
10:46 AM sensille: it's just about the chips/dust. are they too small?
10:49 AM rmu: no idea
10:50 AM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: that is the problem with following the advice in here, you get what you pay for
10:51 AM rmu: why is it a problem
10:51 AM travis_farmer[m]: it is irrelevant now as the monitor got punched with a drill, and it is more than just a config situation
10:51 AM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: you need to weed out the advice from some that believe their own bullshit
10:51 AM CaptHindsight[m]: since it's an open forum
10:52 AM travis_farmer[m]: i am Autistic, so i take everything people say at face value
10:55 AM travis_farmer[m]: from the referenced forum post "The basic way to make a new bitfile is to edit a PIN_XXXX.vhd file to make one with the required pinout
10:55 AM travis_farmer[m]: and included modules, add this new pinfile to the project, include it in the top level file and re-compile"
10:56 AM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: have you tried asking on the forums?
10:56 AM CaptHindsight[m]: it gets moderated
10:57 AM rmu: travis_farmer[m]: what cards are you trying to connect? the firmware you need probably exists already
10:57 AM CaptHindsight[m]: it's not real time, so you need to have some patience
10:58 AM travis_farmer[m]: trying to connect a 7i70, and 7i73 via a 7i44 plugged into a 7i80HD-16
11:00 AM rmu: so you just need smart serial firmware? what else is connected to 7i80?
11:00 AM travis_farmer[m]: StepGen on P3, GPIO on P2 and the 7i44 on P1
11:02 AM rmu: did you download "support software" from mesa?
11:02 AM travis_farmer[m]: i did for the 7i80HD-16
11:03 AM rmu: which bitfile did you flash?
11:03 AM travis_farmer[m]: 7i80hd_16_svst8_4.bit
11:04 AM rmu: you probably need one that also has "ss" in its name. unsure about nomenclature.
11:05 AM travis_farmer[m]: ok, looking...
11:09 AM rmu: maybe 7i80hd_16_sssvst8_8_8
11:09 AM travis_farmer[m]: i'll look at it
11:10 AM rmu: depends on what your stepgen looks like
11:10 AM rmu: you can flash it and examine pins with mesaflash --readhmid in case you didn't know
11:11 AM travis_farmer[m]: i would have to move stuff around, but it may work...
11:11 AM travis_farmer[m]: i am reading the pinfiles in the source
11:12 AM rmu: i have to go.
11:12 AM travis_farmer[m]: ok, thanks (calmed down now) :-)
11:13 AM travis_farmer[m]: just need to get a new monitor now... :-(
11:30 AM sensille: "probe tripped during non-probe move". probably vibrations to the tool sensor
11:35 AM jpa-: or EMI to the cables
11:38 AM jpa-: travis_farmer[m]: so uh.. did i understand this right? you receive some new hardware, you can't figure out the config in the first 2 hours, you intentionally destroy your screen?
11:57 AM travis_farmer[m]: i just got calmed down from an autistic meltdown, why are you trying to antagonize me?
11:57 AM jpa-: just sounds so weird to me
12:02 PM travis_farmer[m]: besides, i read the manuals for all 3 boards, and sserial, and i did not see at any point where i needed a special sserial enabled firmware. i don't know why people think i didn't do research or that i can't figure something out. i have a tested IQ of 111. at no point did i see i needed a special firmware, nor was i told so before buying.
12:02 PM travis_farmer[m]: and the screen was not intentional, it was an autistic meltdown. there is a difference.
12:09 PM roycroft: people don't always have the full context when commenting online
12:10 PM roycroft: it can make communications challenging and sometimes awkward
12:11 PM jpa-: i can agree on mesa hardware not being always easy to configure, it took me weeks :D
12:35 PM sensille: linuxcnc is not easy at all. mesa hardware is no exception to that
12:36 PM roycroft: fortunately we have some great resources here to help with both linuxcnc and mesa boards
12:38 PM skunkworks[m]: I find it really easy.. It only took 20 years.
12:53 PM skunkworks[m]: (and converting a minimum of 3 industrial cnc machines..
12:54 PM sensille: to be fair, i used linuxcnc for a few year with only minimal setup effort, just using stepconf. but also with zero features
12:58 PM sensille: my probing routing was g38.2 in the mdi windows
01:06 PM JT-Shop: travis_farmer[m], you don't need special firmware for smart serial cards, the firmware on the main board must match the daughter cards or they won't work
01:07 PM JT-Shop: sending step and direction to a 7i44 won't work
01:08 PM JT-Shop: a 7i44 is an 8 channel RS-422 interface card so the firmware on that plug must speak RS-422 to the 7i44
01:09 PM JT-Shop: 7i80hd_16_svss8_44.bit would be for the 7i44 on P3
01:10 PM JT-Shop: you can use mesact to read what's on your 7i80 and flash with even if it can't make a configuration for you
01:11 PM JT-Shop: just depends on what other daughter cards you have
01:11 PM * JT-Shop starts finding materials and tools for tomorrow
01:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: c101horse🇳🇱#8332: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/47662-installing-linuxcnc-2-9-on-raspberry-pi-4b-with-preempt-rt-kernel#259347
01:44 PM JT-Shop: tried that one this morning and it didn't work
01:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so much for standard Rpi hardware
01:47 PM JT-Shop: I've tried 4-5 ways to get the rt preempt kernel on rpi with recent kernel and all have failed...
01:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: RK3588 boards like the http://www.orangepi.org/html/hardWare/computerAndMicrocontrollers/details/Orange-Pi-5.html might be nice IF the u-boot source becomes public
01:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or if it is, I have yet to discover its whereabouts
01:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah, found it https://wiki.radxa.com/Rock5/dev/Debian
01:58 PM unterhausen: It would be nice if you could get a good case for it
01:58 PM rmu: WTF you have to delete /usr/share/fonts/truetype/noto/NotoColorEmoji.ttf to get ise 14.7 running on ubuntu
01:58 PM FinboySlick: Could the realtime thread be isolated to one of the smaller cores? I wonder if power management interrupts them.
02:00 PM FinboySlick: rmu: Heh, unicode bug or something?
02:01 PM rmu: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1174088/libpng-warning-application-jmp-buf-size-changed-segmentation-fault-when-try-to/1213079#1213079
02:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: if only there was some way to fabricate them :)
02:06 PM unterhausen: yes, mill has to work first
02:07 PM FinboySlick: Solid billet case, when you just have to be the fanciest Pi in on the block.
02:07 PM unterhausen: I have a copper heatsink about the right size
02:07 PM unterhausen: for a pi, it makes no sense to build
02:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm certain some junk for it will be available soon.
02:08 PM unterhausen: I just ordered a nice pi case from the borg for less than $10
02:08 PM unterhausen: it's bigger than a pi, right?
02:08 PM DigitalReaper: I have one of these, works well even under high loads https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B082Y2SKPL/
02:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: another option is to place the board into the same enclosure as the Mesa cards until the integrated microcontrollers can real time step
02:09 PM DigitalReaper: you could call that a billet case if you stretch the definitions a bit
02:12 PM unterhausen: I got that same one. In the U.S. we can't get all those cool colors though, or I would have gotten red
02:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: strip the black and anodize it again
02:12 PM unterhausen: I think after a day of running lcnc it gets too hot and throttles the cpu
02:13 PM unterhausen: my pis are going to be in a box, black is probably best. I would only get to look at it when I change something around inside the box. which is never
02:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: black body radiation
02:13 PM DigitalReaper: never had issues with mine, though I'm running it in the open and it's not running LCNC
02:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sounds racist but it's not
02:14 PM unterhausen: radiation is weird, it's only loosely related to color
02:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: couple the heatsink to a larger one or add a fan
02:14 PM unterhausen: I'm not sure about anodizing though
02:15 PM DigitalReaper: the slightest amount of forced air cooling will make a big difference. convection kinda sucks
02:15 PM unterhausen: yeah, I was thinking about a fan. I would rather not, but what can you do
02:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.heatsinkusa.com/2-000-wide-serrated-fin-extruded-aluminum-heatsink/
02:16 PM unterhausen: I have a whole box of heatsinks. Of course, when I need one i almost always end up buying new
02:16 PM DigitalReaper: I run an undervolted 50mm fan on a different pi (3b) with a tiny heatsink and it makes a huge difference
02:16 PM unterhausen: I should try it
02:16 PM unterhausen: have to figure out what I did with all my fans
02:16 PM DigitalReaper: 12v fan connected to the Pi's 5v pins
02:17 PM Davefrom3DPandME: ahh who sent me a bullseye image with liunux cnc pre-installed
02:17 PM Davefrom3DPandME: what is the password hah
02:17 PM unterhausen: cnc
02:18 PM unterhausen: I broke into your house and cracked it
02:25 PM Davefrom3DPandME: honestly at this point in time i'd have given you a cup of tea and a tip
02:25 PM Davefrom3DPandME: why is this working image not on the download page instead of the broken one 😅
02:25 PM FinboySlick: "Just the tip, and only for a minute, mind."
02:25 PM Davefrom3DPandME: 😉
02:25 PM FinboySlick: (said in AvE's delightful Kanukistan vernacular)
02:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Dave from 3DPandME#2881: only so many people with time to go around plus fear of posting on the forums and wiki
02:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and the broken image still works on the Rpi4 from 3 years ago
02:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: is there a link to info on the Rpi4 differences and issues with the closed source bootloader firmware
02:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ?
02:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: another option is to just stop using the Rpi4 and go onto something with open source firmware and lots of open docs for the hardware
02:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: stop the Rpi madness
02:34 PM skunkworks[m]: jt_shop: Playing this weekend - I installed the latest snapshot here https://raspi.debian.net/daily-images/ (which is just a terminal) - apt-get install linux-image-rt-arm64 then apt-get install xfce. (which doesn't work 100% - the screen is a bit glitchy) then apt-get installed linuxcnc-uspace
02:34 PM skunkworks[m]: (I think I added a user - it installes with root - no password)
02:35 PM unterhausen: Cap'n, you first?
02:35 PM skunkworks[m]: I was going to try lxde but haven't gotten around to it.
02:43 PM Davefrom3DPandME: I need spi and remora to communicate with my stepper control board
02:44 PM Davefrom3DPandME: Very little I did try to search for that to try understand what was causing the issue! Anyway the image linked works immediately and then installing remora on top was straight forward
02:45 PM Davefrom3DPandME: I appreciate this! it's the same for our project (millennium mill) lots of people happy to do design work etc. but documentation is hard to get done
02:46 PM Davefrom3DPandME: Just venting sorry! I don't have an older pi4 to test that this image works on or i would!
02:48 PM Davefrom3DPandME: Is there another similar cost + size solution which has SPI?
02:48 PM Davefrom3DPandME: I am trying to define the control hardware our project will use so definitely open to suggestions that aren't full size PC's
02:56 PM unterhausen: I assume you are talking about the image from the forum, and it does work on older pis
02:57 PM unterhausen: I have a new one that fails with the 32 bit image on the d/l page
02:58 PM unterhausen: for something like the millenium machine, it probably is best to use something mainstream like the pi
03:02 PM c101horse8332[m]: thats what i have
03:09 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/ISTa8Dxq5tY
03:09 PM XXCoder: fun video
03:12 PM rmu: c101horse8332[m]: any progress?
03:13 PM c101horse8332[m]: got home from weld course 20 minutes ago, ill try some more stuff tomorrow evening
03:38 PM travis_farmer[m]: found another monitor for my LinuxCNC computer... but it isn't a high enough resolution for qtdragon_hd, so i will swap out the monitor for my security camera monitor, as that doesn't need as big of a monitor... will try it tomorrow, so i can re-flash my 7i80
03:46 PM travis_farmer[m]: tried to reflash with my winblows laptop, but apparently my admin account doesn't have permission to run the mesaflash program... oh, wait a minute, i remember i can't run odd software off a network drive, let me try that again...
03:51 PM JT-Woodshop: ethernet cards don't need sudo or super
03:52 PM JT-Woodshop: only pci(e) cards
03:52 PM JT-Woodshop: travis_farmer[m], did you find the correct firmware?
03:52 PM JT-Woodshop: roycroft, am I asking for trouble gluing up 25 2" x 10" strips of wood at one time with tb3?
03:53 PM travis_farmer[m]: 7i80hd_16_sssvst8_8_8.bit gives me stepgen on p2 and sserial on p3
03:53 PM JT-Woodshop: great
03:53 PM JT-Woodshop: the names of the 7i80 firmware are cornfusing
03:54 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i wish somebody would write a winblows version of mesact ;-)
03:54 PM JT-Woodshop: ah ss sserial and st stepgen
03:54 PM JT-Woodshop: it's enough work to just have a linux one :)
03:54 PM travis_farmer[m]: lol
03:57 PM sinned69158 is now known as sinned6915
03:57 PM travis_farmer[m]: ok, i flashed my 7i80HD-25 (my backup board) with 7i80hd_25_sssvst8_8_8.bit (same thing, but for the 25), so i can test with that before making changes to my board in my control cabinet
03:57 PM travis_farmer[m]: i had to move mesaflash to my main harddrive, not a network drive, in order for it to have permission
04:01 PM JT-Woodshop: cool, sounds like you have a handle on it now
04:01 PM travis_farmer[m]: for the moment ;-)
04:04 PM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm, not sure the flash took, ./mesaflash.exe --ip 10.10.10.10 --device 7i80 --hm2 doesn't have the stepgen or sserial right... or sserial at all...
04:05 PM travis_farmer[m]: it has the old firmware, actualy
04:07 PM travis_farmer[m]: it verifies, but the --hm2 output is wrong
04:08 PM perry_j1987: hey guys
04:10 PM perry_j1987: i've forgotten how to configure with no home/limit switches
04:11 PM travis_farmer[m]: i think the bit file was named wrong...
04:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: the thread of options https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/46077-potential-all-in-one-single-board-computers
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/1324/rk3588block00.png looks the most promising for future all in one board for stepping with no Mesa card required, like the OrangeCNC project
04:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: has three Cortex M0 micros integrated
04:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if one or two can be used for stepgens it would just need some IO protection and level shifting for Step/Dir
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: until then it still replaces and Rpi4 if you use Mesa over Ethernet
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/Libre-Computer-AML-S905X-CC-Potato-64-bit/dp/B074P6BNGZ/ref=sr_1_2 a $35 replacement for the Rpi4
04:27 PM * travis_farmer[m] posted a file: (7KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/wlTrRvLAMuAilvcUUhYahnNu/7i80hd_25_sssvst8_8_8.pin.txt >
04:27 PM travis_farmer[m]: i wonder why no stepgens?
04:31 PM JT-Woodshop: two servos and ss
04:32 PM travis_farmer[m]: it has a ST in it, logically it should have stepgens ;-)
04:35 PM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm, not finding any sserial with stepgens in any of the firmwares
04:35 PM JT-Woodshop: let me look
04:36 PM travis_farmer[m]: sorry to be such a hassle
04:44 PM perry_j1987: hmm
04:45 PM perry_j1987: what am I missing lol. picked up this little taig mill on marketplace and setting up a linuxcnc config for it
04:45 PM perry_j1987: got everything moving with the gecko g540 they were using mach3 before
04:46 PM perry_j1987: when i press the right arrow the table jogs right. if i press up the table goes towards the column and if i press down arrow the spindle goes down...
04:47 PM perry_j1987: but if i move the part in the vise towards the column the DRO in axis starts reading positive numbers instead of negative?
04:47 PM perry_j1987: thats backwards isnt it?
04:48 PM JT-Shop: travis_farmer[m], I'm not seeing anything that looks right atm
04:49 PM travis_farmer[m]: ok, thanks for looking. maybe i can connect with pcw--home tomorrow. i am about to eat supper now
04:49 PM JT-Shop: if I see him I'll ask
04:50 PM travis_farmer[m]: ok, thanks :-)
05:22 PM unterhausen: interesting that qtdragon has an error opening files on the pi4, but not on a pc
05:23 PM XXCoder: what is error?
05:23 PM unterhausen: sorry, lost to time
05:23 PM unterhausen: something about html
05:23 PM XXCoder: weird
05:24 PM unterhausen: it was button related, like it hadn't been initialized
05:24 PM unterhausen: pi monitor is currently on the floor, even with 2 desks I can't fit 3 monitors
05:29 PM unterhausen: forgot I need to set up an intel network card
05:38 PM unterhausen: where does the interrupt coalescence command actually go in the interface file?
05:39 PM unterhausen: after "inet static"?
05:41 PM Tom_L: i think you use the ethtool but i've never done it so...
05:42 PM Tom_L: https://01.org/linux-interrupt-moderation
05:42 PM unterhausen: JT says "in the /etc/network/interfaces file by adding the following to the static IP"
05:42 PM Tom_L: may mention something about it
05:42 PM Tom_L: i'd go with his suggestion because i'm just stabbing in the dark
05:43 PM Tom_L: cradek[m] brought it up a day or so ago
05:43 PM unterhausen: his suggestion fails to unambiguously say where to put it. Same line as address seems weird
05:44 PM Tom_L: i would put it after the address for sure
05:44 PM Tom_L: so it knows where to sendit
05:44 PM Tom_L: yet another stab :)
05:45 PM unterhausen: upside for you is I might lose internet :)
05:45 PM Tom_L: aww
05:46 PM unterhausen: next step requires me to find a mesa card
05:46 PM * Tom_L opens his bottom drawer
05:47 PM unterhausen: I have a box of them here somewhere
05:49 PM unterhausen: actually, the ip address didn't take so I must have an error
05:50 PM Tom_L: did you restart network services?
05:50 PM unterhausen: rebooted
05:52 PM unterhausen: maybe it needs something to be hooked up
05:52 PM Tom_L: yup
05:52 PM unterhausen: dagnabbit
05:53 PM unterhausen: synapses fired 7 minutes and 38 seconds too late
05:53 PM Tom_L: where's it headed then?
07:07 PM unterhausen: if I put the coalescing command after the address, my network successfully enters a dead state
07:08 PM unterhausen: if I put it on its own line, it restarts okay
07:08 PM roycroft: that makes sense
07:12 PM unterhausen: I wonder what manpage cradek was reading about it on?
07:13 PM cradek: man hm2_eth
07:13 PM unterhausen: thanks
07:18 PM unterhausen: I guess I'm not homing to index with a mesa ethernet card
07:38 PM cradek: I've run mine for quite a while, and then checked the hal param to see if there were any lost packets, and there weren't
07:38 PM cradek: so I suggest just checking before assuming
08:04 PM skunkworks[m]: cradek (@_discord_635160803753984018:jauriarts.org) what problems did you have with the pi?
08:28 PM cradek: I think the hardware was generally just fine. I was frustrated how the install is "like debian, but slightly weird" and kept stumbling on things. also, the wifi was unusably flaky for me. I switched to a 2008ish PC and I'm happier just because everything is familiar (and it's faster for building)
08:37 PM cradek: also part of it was just a person preference/comfort level decision. I definitely had it in my head that I wanted this to still be usable without any more major rebuilds, in 2050. I felt like using a pi, which is already hard to get, wasn't helping that goal. (although it was sure easy to replace with a pc, because of being ethernet)
09:10 PM MikeM[m]: I started out with a PI using a 7i96. The ethernet connection did not seem stable with it with random dropped connections. I ultimately went a mini-PC and it has been flawless since then.