#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 21 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:20 AM piranha32[m]: Hi! I'm a LinuxCNC newbie, and I'm learning as I'm converting Proxxon;s MF70 to my first CNC mill. I got it working, it made first chips, and now I'm learning how to use it.
12:29 AM piranha32[m]: I have a question about tool change. I do manual tool change, and I need to do a touch off after the change, and I'm stuck on how to do it. How do people handle manual setting of the new tool length?
12:48 AM piranha32[m]: * that's what
12:49 AM jpa-: as everything, it can be configured and scripted.. if you install automatic tool length probe then it makes some sense to do so :)
12:49 AM XXCoder: what kind of tool holder is it anyway
12:49 AM XXCoder: is it something like cat3o which tool and holder comes off together?
12:49 AM jpa-: probably just a collet
12:49 AM jpa-: MF70 is tiny
12:49 AM XXCoder: likely just a collet yes
12:50 AM piranha32[m]: I'm thinking about it, but for now it's on the list for future improvement
12:50 AM piranha32[m]: a small collet
12:50 AM piranha32[m]: https://www.proxxon.com/en/micromot/27110.php
12:55 AM piranha32[m]: First signs of life from the x/y table: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LedLaeJP8U4
12:56 AM * piranha32[m] uploaded an image: (3414KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/RFHDifCpdnvqoBhCxCxtrxzq/2023-01-21_01.53.04.jpg >
12:56 AM piranha32[m]: And this is how the controller looks today
12:57 AM XXCoder: interesting. kinda reminded me of millenium machining mill project, but then its common small mill design
12:58 AM piranha32[m]: It is tiny, has pretty limited workspace area, but I like it because it is tiny, and I still can cut steel on it
01:13 AM XXCoder: definitely stronger than millenium mill then lol
01:13 AM XXCoder: anyway nice
01:13 AM Deejay: moin
01:17 AM piranha32[m]: The table is kind-of flimzy-ish, but I was getting pretty decent surface finish on mild steel with manual milling
01:18 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/77IH_Ofi6JY
01:18 AM XXCoder: millenium. noit mine as I dont own one
01:20 AM piranha32[m]: looks pretty decent. MF70 is smaller, 3.17mm shank max
01:20 AM XXCoder: more milling
01:20 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/TILezj9bfP4
01:20 AM XXCoder: I hate to see small amount of chatter I see there
01:20 AM XXCoder: but then guy havent changed sides to alum sides yet
01:21 AM XXCoder: you can see it flex a bit
01:21 AM piranha32[m]: he goes pretty fast
01:23 AM XXCoder: i was spoiled by big machines
01:25 AM piranha32[m]: I'm impressed that you can get such good performance from 3d printed parts
01:25 AM XXCoder: I think they designed it pretty well
01:25 AM XXCoder: only thing I dislike is reprap style firmware
01:25 AM XXCoder: I rather use linuxcnc
01:26 AM piranha32[m]: You can change the controller to whatever you want
01:26 AM XXCoder: yep
01:26 AM piranha32[m]: still better than grbl 🙂
01:26 AM XXCoder: grbl is fine for very basic machine
01:27 AM piranha32[m]: that's what it was designed for
01:27 AM piranha32[m]: ok, time to go to sleep. Thanks for help!
01:28 AM XXCoder: welcome.
03:18 AM * travis_farmer[m] wonders why pneumatic parallel gripper "claws" are so darn expensive...
03:19 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning :-)
03:20 AM * travis_farmer[m] thinks maybe an RC servo gripper will work...
03:28 AM sensille: great. first test run of workpiece height probe routing destroyed the stylus
03:29 AM sensille: of course i set low speed. it used rapids, though
03:30 AM sensille: probe still seems to work, though
03:30 AM travis_farmer[m]: i would say something was wrong somewhere, but then you already knew that ;-)
03:30 AM travis_farmer[m]: a lot of probe stylus are replaceable
03:30 AM XXCoder: dont have seperate speed % for rapids?
03:31 AM travis_farmer[m]: i thought you went to bed at 2am, XX? ;-)
03:31 AM sensille: i did not expect it to use rapids, i'm just stuped
03:31 AM XXCoder: its not 2 am
03:31 AM XXCoder: doh sens
03:32 AM travis_farmer[m]: right, timezones lol
03:33 AM sensille: i really like that newer linuxcnc also protects g0/g1 moves with probe triggers
03:33 AM sensille: but that doesn't really help with rapids
03:37 AM sensille: 10 euro
03:44 AM travis_farmer[m]: in all the many number of pre-made 3d print files, i have yet to find where somebody has made gripper jaws that go on a parallel gripper, and clamp around a BT30/ISO30 cone, securely. probably will have to figure that out for myself, i guess...
03:46 AM travis_farmer[m]: plenty of forks that slide in the groove, but if the tool holder is already in a fork, another fork to take it out of the first fork, just won't work ;-)
03:46 AM sensille: strange. the workpiece probe routine gives P2 (machine probe) and safe Z travel in WCS. as i want P2 to be a fixed point on the machine and Z travel to be machine max it would make much more sense to have it in ABS coordinates
03:47 AM sensille: (also i should 3d print a stylus for testing)
03:49 AM travis_farmer[m]: 3d print a stylus? just hot glue a stiff piece of filament to the probe ;-) (kidding)
04:07 AM sensille: stylus tried to poke a hole in there ... https://i.imgur.com/1Qa2Nqv.jpg
04:07 AM travis_farmer[m]: that is a hard hit!
04:07 AM * travis_farmer[m] wonders if the #40 chain McMaster sells with the attachment tabs, could be used to make a tool chain magazine...
04:47 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:54 AM travis_farmer[m]: i find it ironic that in school, i had a documented writing disability, yet when i get brainstorming ideas in blogs on my forum, i can sometimes write essay length posts... i realize, handwriting is very different than doing it on a computer, but it still seems ironic. just wrote a brainstorm, about essay length on various ways to make my tool magazine... :-)
05:55 AM travis_farmer[m]: not that i tend to hyper-focus, as an autistic... ;-)
06:07 AM Tom_L: morning
06:52 AM travis_farmer[m]: kinda getting the impression that nobody is interested in ideas that i hyper-focus on...
07:21 AM rmu: travis_farmer[m]: i have no idea what you mean with "matrix tool changer", i find it kinda "interesting" that you tool changer needs any control at all. for a small router-type machine i would just reserve some part of the table for tool holders, if you want to get fancy you can equip the tool holders with inductive sensors for "tool holder occupied" feedback
07:23 AM rmu: something like this https://jetforme.org/2019/11/linuxcnc-rack-style-toolchanger/
07:24 AM rmu: tool holders a cheap / easy to mill, and not much can go wrong
08:24 AM He[m]1: You drawing that atc out yet? Pictures always help to get people interested
08:30 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You're overthinking the tool gripper. All of the commercial solutions just use what is effectively just a spring loaded fork that slides in the grooves. The arm that moves the tool just uses force to slide the fork into the holder in the spindle or magazine pocket. The pockets also just have spring loaded balls to retain the pull stud on the holder. Everything snaps into place, no complexity needed.
08:32 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You would need two chains to effectively support the tool pockets. Commercial solutions use REALLY big single chains but those are likely custom or $$$. $17/foot is pretty cheap as machine parts go.
08:38 AM rmu: what do you need a chain for on a router? what capacity do you need/want? 10 or 15 tools are plenty IMO and easily fit on a rack with 1m / 3ft length
08:45 AM skunkworks[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KplU8hkI0AQ
09:00 AM travis_farmer[m]: perhaps i will draw it out, purely for my own piece of mind. also, the controller would be needed for what is in mind. the big matrix tool changer is not simply what i need, but has become a mental challenge, and obsession. it has lost focus as to what i need, and is now geared at "because i can". in the meantime, i can still do manual changes by hand, and possibly even build a rack changer in the meantime. but what is the value of
09:00 AM travis_farmer[m]: an idea, if it never gets thought out? without a challenge and innovation, the mind is a worthless organ. that is why i am exploring the idea of a matrix tool magazine. if all i do with the machine is make signs and coffee tables, then life is boring, and not worth it. if getting the machine ready to work is my job (albeit unpaid), then the matrix magazine is my side-project/hobby. i will try and draw it out, for clarification. keep
09:00 AM travis_farmer[m]: in mind, my CAD skills are not very exercised ;-)
09:28 AM JT-Shop: you should start by gettig your spindle to orient...
09:28 AM Tom_L: good luck :)
09:29 AM JT-Shop: he did say he want's to challenge his mind...
09:30 AM Tom_L: well maybe somebody can solve the puzzle..
09:30 AM Tom_L: i gave it a rest yesterday
09:30 AM travis_farmer[m]: orient the spindle to what?
09:30 AM Tom_L: a tool change point
09:30 AM Tom_L: for the drive dogs
09:31 AM travis_farmer[m]: oh, is that what orient is for? can't say as i have ever used it...
09:31 AM Tom_L: one thing yes
09:31 AM Tom_L: best of luck :)
09:32 AM travis_farmer[m]: first i gotta sort out my brake resistor issue. i will ohm it out after lunch, had stuff going on this morning
09:32 AM He[m]1: Erm, is spindle orient hard in linuxcnc? Or just with a router spindle?
09:33 AM JT-Shop: linuxcnc
09:33 AM JT-Shop: M19
09:34 AM JT-Shop: Tom_L, I love this "please call me at the dealership to discuss pricing options"
09:36 AM travis_farmer[m]: i don't think my spindle will orient... no encoder, and i am not sure it has a way to attach an encoder...
09:39 AM JT-Shop: I use the "Easy Tool Changer" on my BP knee mill...
09:45 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: ISO30 does not need orient as it does not have drive dogs.
09:46 AM travis_farmer[m]: Hmmm... i am more used to using CAD to draw cabinets... dang matrix tool magazine somehow turned into a cabinet... it is like i can see the machine perfectly in my head. i just can't make CAD cooperate. lol
09:47 AM travis_farmer[m]: good, as much trouble as Tom_L was having with orient, i was hopeing i didn't need it :-)
09:50 AM travis_farmer[m]: i need a new interface for CAD... need something that takes a picture i have in my mind, and draws it ;-)
09:54 AM travis_farmer[m]: it may be just as well, that i don't worry about building any changer yet... neither my machine nor shop is ready for it. besides, when i go to move the machine to the new shop, it will be me and my father, and our bad backs as the only way we have to move a 500+ pound machine
09:57 AM travis_farmer[m]: don't need to add any more weight to it...
09:59 AM travis_farmer[m]: 'cause i doubt anyone from here would travel to Maine, just to help move a machine ;-)
10:02 AM roycroft: i haven't been to maine in a very long time, and i would not mind visiting again to explore the state
10:02 AM roycroft: but i don't think the pretext of helping move a machine is reason enough to make that trip, nothing personal
10:06 AM travis_farmer[m]: nothing personal taken. i truly didn't think anybody would WANT to destroy their backs. :-)
10:07 AM JT-Shop: I use my brain to move machines, not my back...
10:07 AM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/HOZLY-ISO30-Holder-Clamp-Rubber/dp/B07WLCT6F4/ref=sr_1_5
10:07 AM travis_farmer[m]: my brain isn't that powerfull ;-)
10:07 AM JT-Shop: some of those bolted down and you have a tool changer
10:08 AM roycroft: indeed, i would not sacrifice my back moving a machine, be it my own machine or someone else's
10:08 AM roycroft: i would rather use physics
10:08 AM travis_farmer[m]: i would rather use a fork-lift... but i don't have one
10:09 AM roycroft: i don't have a fork lift either
10:09 AM roycroft: i have an engine hoist, that helps with some moves
10:10 AM roycroft: and various other lifting/winching apparatus
10:11 AM * JT-Shop can move almost anything with his toe jack and 2x4's and comealongs
10:11 AM travis_farmer[m]: the lumber company me and my father use, they have "Spider" forklifts (ride on the back of the delivery trucks. we were thinking of asking the store manager how much it would cost to get the machine moved.
10:14 AM travis_farmer[m]: i would have to brace it and lock down the spindle to limit any risk of damage. the driver they have is pretty good with the spider forklift... i would still want to strap it very well to the forks
10:15 AM travis_farmer[m]: if i had some moving dollys with turf wheels, that would work too...
10:16 AM travis_farmer[m]: either way, whle i look forward to the new shop... i do not look forward to moving the machine...
10:18 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop, you gotta play hard to get at a dealer
10:18 AM Tom_L: right now with no stock that is kindof a fine line
10:23 AM Bleepshop: JT-Shop: Sounds like me. I move heavy things all the time at work with simple tools. Drives the boss up the wall. LOL
10:26 AM roguish[m]: round steel bars and a long heal bar.........just like the Egyptians...........
10:26 AM roguish[m]: time and patience, an inch at a time.
10:26 AM travis_farmer[m]: i don't think the Egyptians had steel bars... ;-)
10:27 AM Tom_L: they weren't moving CNCs either
10:29 AM travis_farmer[m]: hmm, may be as easy as my fathers open trailer. it is too narrow, but i could build a platform on it that is wide enough, and skid the machine out onto it... pull the trailer over with my truck, and skid it off the platform trailer onto the new shed floor. i have some moving dollys that will work once it is on the floor...
10:33 AM travis_farmer[m]: anyway... gotta go see what my father is up to in his shop..
10:33 AM Tom_L: crappy rainy day here
10:34 AM roguish[m]: sunny and crisp here. still in the 30's
10:37 AM roycroft: a 500lb machine should be pretty easy to move
10:37 AM roycroft: even with a somewhat wonky setup
10:38 AM roycroft: my lathe is a bit under 1000lbs and i can move it myself pretty easily
10:39 AM roycroft: it's when a machine weighs a ton or more that one has to be especially careful when moving it
10:40 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, 500lbs is almost within one guy and a dolly territory. I just moved a 400lb laser cutter into my basement with a fridge dolly and that wasn't bad. The lathe that weights in a 2.5ton or the mill at 6ton are a different story 🙂
10:40 AM Tom_L: there are a couple companies here that do most of the heavy machinery lifting in this area
10:41 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I called one of them when I moved my mill in. It was worth every penny. (and there were a lot of pennys needed 🙂
10:42 AM Tom_L: bargain price here starts around 600
10:42 AM Tom_L: well, for a hefty cnc
10:42 AM Tom_L: dunno about something like a bridgeport etc
10:44 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That is pretty cheap. It was $3000cad to load/transport/unload a 6 ton mill. That was three guys, two transport trucks, and a 60k lb forklift for a day.
10:45 AM Tom_L: i based that on a small mill and they were on a return trip from another haul
10:45 AM Tom_L: kinda a favor thing
10:46 AM roycroft: $3000 is pretty cheap for a full day with that many people and their rigging
10:46 AM Tom_L: i'm sure a scheduled move would be more in the same ballpark
10:46 AM roycroft: especially since its $3000 loonies, not $3000 real dollars :)
10:47 AM Tom_L: roycroft, our dollar hasn't been real for quite some time
10:47 AM Tom_L: nothing backs it now
10:47 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That is what I thought @roycroft. It was during the peak of covid between lockdowns though so not much was going on. I think I got a deal.
10:47 AM Tom_L: except maybe the gold in fort knox we store for other countries
10:48 AM Tom_L: but that's a whole other topic i should have left alone :)
10:50 AM * roycroft wonders what tom_l will think if we issue a $1 trillion commemorative platinum coin
10:51 AM Bleepshop: roycroft: "That'll never fit in the soda machine?" ;D
10:51 AM Tom_L: most of those here take cc now
10:52 AM Tom_L: you know plastic _is_ worth more than the actual dollar now
11:00 AM * roycroft thinks that fiat currency has more intrnsic value than trading cards of a former president costumed as superheros
11:01 AM Tom_L: starting with 'O'?
11:12 AM * travis_farmer[m] cleans chewed up cheeseburger off his screen, after roycroft's trading card bit ;-)
11:16 AM travis_farmer[m]: so, i had a brief moment before lunch to ohm out my VFD brake resistor. it is about 75ohm per resistor, and i had them still in series (thought i had bypassed one, but i guess not) so it was just a tick over 150ohms. i did reduce it down to 75 ohms (one resistor), and will try it after my lunch settles a bit.
11:17 AM DigitalReaper: just remember that also reduces the power rating too
11:18 AM travis_farmer[m]: hmm, so 250W rather than 500W?
11:18 AM DigitalReaper: yes
11:20 AM travis_farmer[m]: and i can't parallel them, as that is only 37.5ohms, and the minimum is 50ohms
11:21 AM DigitalReaper: if nessecary you can parallel them and then add a new resistor in series to bring it over 50
11:21 AM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm...
11:22 AM travis_farmer[m]: so, at 250W, what are the chances of me creating a lightbulb? ;-)
11:23 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Virtually none. The peak power is high during braking but the average power is only critical for repeated stops.
11:23 AM travis_farmer[m]: hmm, so try it in see, is what i am hearing
11:24 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You checked for shorts to gnd/case?
11:24 AM travis_farmer[m]: yes, nothing showed on the meter
11:30 AM travis_farmer[m]: well, lunch has settled. let me go see if i can pop a resistor ;-)
11:30 AM Deejay: make it burn!
11:30 AM DigitalReaper: does it have a thermal cutout? and if so does it protect both resistors or only one?
11:36 AM travis_farmer[m]: no thermal cut off
11:42 AM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm, no pop, but not much slow-down either
11:43 AM travis_farmer[m]: that was 5% brake, now 10%...
11:46 AM Bleepshop: travis_farmer[m4: Grab a 250W chicken heater bulb or two?
11:46 AM travis_farmer[m]: it isn't braking at all...
11:47 AM DigitalReaper: those bulbs would be under 2 ohms (@ 110v) which is way too low for this
11:47 AM travis_farmer[m]: 50%
11:47 AM DigitalReaper: ignore that, I think I mathed wrong
11:48 AM travis_farmer[m]: there we go, we have brakes now!!!
11:48 AM travis_farmer[m]: 5 seconds to stop
11:48 AM rmu: DigitalReaper: tungsten filament bulbs are a short when cold
11:48 AM travis_farmer[m]: and a loud squeal...
11:49 AM travis_farmer[m]: and we have a VFD fault...
11:49 AM DigitalReaper: 250w @ 110v would take a resistance of 40.4 ohms
11:49 AM JT-Shop: and I thought it was time to make a sign "Signs for Sale"
11:49 AM Bleepshop: I worked on a machine years ago with a 6 pack of 130V/100W light bulbs for the brake resistor. Hit the E-stop and the panel would go nova. inside. LOL
11:50 AM travis_farmer[m]: E005, over current during deceleration
11:50 AM Bleepshop: travis_farmer[m4: Not enough resistor.
11:51 AM travis_farmer[m]: yup
11:56 AM travis_farmer[m]: ok, same settings, both resistors in series (150ohm)
11:58 AM travis_farmer[m]: E005, dropping back to 25% brake
11:59 AM travis_farmer[m]: slow brake, 15seconds, no error
12:00 PM rmu: 150 ohms will brake slower than 75 ohms
12:00 PM travis_farmer[m]: 30%
12:00 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i know
12:00 PM travis_farmer[m]: just seeing my limits
12:01 PM travis_farmer[m]: ok, i like 30% 9 seconds
12:05 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, 24000rpm to 0 in about 10 seconds
12:06 PM travis_farmer[m]: damn thing is ear-piercing when it brakes
12:06 PM travis_farmer[m]: but it does it without fault :-)
12:07 PM travis_farmer[m]: i think before, i had braking time set to 0 (default), so it would slam on the brake for a nano second, thus the EMP
12:07 PM travis_farmer[m]: set to 12 seconds now
12:07 PM Bleepshop: That's the inductors in the VFD complaining probably.
12:08 PM travis_farmer[m]: could be, comes from the spindle though
12:09 PM * Bleepshop was so glad when TVs lost CRTs and the need for Horizontal and Vertical drive circuits.
12:09 PM travis_farmer[m]: now if only qtdragon would honor the hardware spindle-at-speed, so things would be right
12:10 PM Bleepshop: Ah, they're reading the back-emf and braking with pulses.
12:15 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, as i thought. the program starts the spindle, and has no wait for at-speed before it dives right in. i don't like that
12:16 PM travis_farmer[m]: i will try a forum post for that though, as JT suggested the other day
12:17 PM travis_farmer[m]: at least i got the brake sorted
12:18 PM travis_farmer[m]: as far as spindle speed readout, i used shielded wire (coax) from the VFD to the THCAD-10, and still the signal is jumpy
12:19 PM travis_farmer[m]: less, but not usable
12:25 PM travis_farmer[m]: wish i could just attack an optical pickup on the spindle nose ;-)
12:25 PM travis_farmer[m]: *attach
12:28 PM rmu: travis_farmer[m]: in the land of the free, who or what's preventing you?
12:29 PM JT-Woodshop: are you using a divider?
12:29 PM travis_farmer[m]: right at the nose? it would dust up
12:29 PM travis_farmer[m]: divider?
12:30 PM JT-Woodshop: The frequency output can optionally be divided by 32, 64 or 128
12:30 PM travis_farmer[m]: the vfd 0-10V runs directly to the THCAD-10
12:30 PM travis_farmer[m]: it is set to f/1
12:30 PM JT-Woodshop: you might try a different one
12:31 PM travis_farmer[m]: ok, just a sec while i try
12:32 PM travis_farmer[m]: ok, now we are getting somewhere :-)
12:34 PM * JT-Woodshop wanders inside to take a nap
01:13 PM * travis_farmer[m] heads in the house, defeated that his comp to convert the encoder velocity to rpm, does not output...
01:38 PM travis_farmer[m]: odd thing, that my comps just regularly don't output correctly. not sure if i am writing them wrong, or calling them wrong. here is the comp (ignore the comp name, i recycled the code to save time): https://github.com/travis-farmer/linuxcnc/blob/master/spind_at_speed.comp
01:40 PM travis_farmer[m]: i call it with: loadusr -W spind_at_speed
01:41 PM travis_farmer[m]: and it creates two pins in HAL. "spind-at-speed.in-val" and "spind-at-speed.out-val"
01:42 PM travis_farmer[m]: i connect the in-val pin to the encoder velocity out, and the out-val to "spindle.0.speed-in"
01:42 PM travis_farmer[m]: as the formula in the comp is figured to output RPS (revolutions per second)
01:44 PM Bleepshop: travis_farmer[m4: You might try breaking that math up through an intermediate variable. " placeholder_val = (in_val - 3660.00) " "out_val = (placeholder_val / 73.775);
01:45 PM Bleepshop: I've had issue with having to do that in other places to get code to work as expected.
01:45 PM travis_farmer[m]: would that really make a difference? normally in C it would do the math easily
01:45 PM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm...
01:45 PM Bleepshop: I dunno.
01:46 PM travis_farmer[m]: well, i am inside now. but i will change the comp and try it tomorrow
01:46 PM Bleepshop: HaHad the issue with everything from Arduinos to PCs with linux and C.
01:46 PM XXCoder: all "wires" run at same time if I recall right, so doing multiple things could cause issues I guess?
01:47 PM travis_farmer[m]: maybe, XX. kinda makes sense when you put it that way
01:47 PM Bleepshop: ((x-y)*z) does not compute as expected all the time. LOL
01:47 PM XXCoder: seemly making sense dont mean true, though so dont quote me unless confirmed :D
01:47 PM JT-Woodshop: why are you using userspace for that?
01:48 PM travis_farmer[m]: dunno... JT
01:48 PM Bleepshop: JT-Woodshop: Uhh.. Because you were taking a nap and nobody knew better? LOL
01:49 PM JT-Woodshop: lol
01:49 PM JT-Woodshop: take a look at abs
01:50 PM travis_farmer[m]: the comp abs in the linuxcnc source?
01:50 PM JT-Woodshop: yup
01:50 PM travis_farmer[m]: ok, will do :-)
01:52 PM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm, so it is just a function... interesting
01:53 PM XXCoder: jt was I anywhere near correct?
01:55 PM JT-Woodshop: I'm not sure what you said...
01:55 PM XXCoder: HAL pins stuff
01:56 PM XXCoder: sorry woke up minutes ago hard to explain well lol
01:57 PM JT-Woodshop: functions are ran in order they are loaded
01:57 PM JT-Woodshop: so if you have a read and write function you run read first then write
01:57 PM * JT-Woodshop goes to get a 1/4" round over router bit
01:57 PM travis_farmer[m]: abs has one function
01:58 PM XXCoder: hmm. why does having more than one math step in one cause problem then?
02:06 PM XXCoder: new yorkshire just posted "summary" video. interesting. if you didnt want to watch hours of him building huge wood cnc router that might be good
02:06 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/wyR1ZyTX8Vw
02:06 PM Bleepshop: 'Dunno. Got a Arduino sitting here in the Shopbot that had to have the math broken up, code for an Android phone GPS tie in with the same issue and years ago re-writing a Hauppage TV capture driver for a different model of card.
02:08 PM travis_farmer[m]: ok, new realtime comp: https://github.com/travis-farmer/linuxcnc/blob/master/vfd2rps.comp something like this JT? i copied most of the format from abs
02:13 PM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm, JT went to get a round over bit, and was never seen again... ;-)
02:14 PM Bleepshop: Looks like the math chains in the right order.
02:14 PM travis_farmer[m]: will have to test tomorrow
02:14 PM XXCoder: on math remember this. please excuse my dear aunt sally
02:15 PM travis_farmer[m]: i have a splitting headache from the sound of the spindle brake being applied. it was quite impressively loud
02:16 PM travis_farmer[m]: i do math my own way, XX ;-)
02:16 PM XXCoder: aka wrong way? ;)
02:16 PM travis_farmer[m]: though admittedly, yes... at times
02:17 PM travis_farmer[m]: that's why i sometimes use a LOT of parenthesis so the compiler can make heads and tails of it ;-)
02:17 PM XXCoder: yep the please is important heh'
02:18 PM roycroft: sometimes heading to the other side of the shop to grab a router cutter involves a many-miles drive to the nearest woodcraft of hardware store
02:19 PM travis_farmer[m]: lol, roycroft
02:19 PM XXCoder: lol
02:19 PM travis_farmer[m]: as my father says, "he went to take a crap, and the hogs ate him" ;-)
02:21 PM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm, maybe that is a more localized phrase... i thought it was funny ;-)
02:27 PM XXCoder: likely
02:27 PM travis_farmer[m]: heh, every time i ran the spindle and stopped it with the brake... it made me wonder how loud it really was, like were the neighbors wondering what the sound was? lol, i gotta get ear-plugs for out there now
02:27 PM XXCoder: oh yah forgot about that trick of pulling vacuum though mdf
02:27 PM XXCoder: that was insane
02:28 PM travis_farmer[m]: i have seen that. never trusted it to hold though
02:28 PM XXCoder: me either
02:28 PM XXCoder: I worked on huge cnc router at job before my last one
02:28 PM XXCoder: vacuum hold keeps failing
02:28 PM travis_farmer[m]: but then, i never trusted vacuum hold...
02:28 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah
02:30 PM travis_farmer[m]: i figure, with my projects, i can probably get away with edge clamping the wood.
02:30 PM travis_farmer[m]: top clamping seems like asking to cause a crash
02:31 PM travis_farmer[m]: i could just screw through into the spoilboard, but that leaves screw holes in the wood...
02:33 PM XXCoder: unless its cut out
02:33 PM XXCoder: put screws where holes or past where edge will be
02:33 PM XXCoder: using tabs to hold part in, then cut it out and smooth it using vrious sanding tools
02:33 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i can do that, for some projects
02:33 PM XXCoder: or router
02:34 PM DigitalReaper: there are also clamps that bite into the side of parts (at least i've seen them for metalworking use), you could also cut grooves or dovetails into the sides of the board and clamp down on those
02:35 PM DigitalReaper: or double sided tape, or 2 layers of painters tape with supergue between them
02:35 PM travis_farmer[m]: i suppose too, i just gotta make sure my safe-Z retracts clear the top clamps, and i will be fine
02:35 PM XXCoder: digital yeah
02:36 PM travis_farmer[m]: interesting methods, DigitalReaper . will remember those!
02:37 PM DigitalReaper: I vaguely recall seeing someone (frank howarth?) using washers screwed to the spoilboard that were pressed against the sides of the board at an angle
02:37 PM DigitalReaper: ie. as they were screwed down they dug into the sides of the board
02:38 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i have used that method way back with my little tiny Chinese cnc
02:41 PM travis_farmer[m]: random thought: i wonder why my Arduino ModBus project connected fine to LinuxCNC/MB2HAL, but my VFD would not... i would have expected the other way around... ;-)
02:47 PM Bleepshop: Vacuum hold is fine if yo have a good table/pump. I use it all the time at work. You just need to keep the lateral forces from the cutter low enough that the part stays put.
03:00 PM roycroft: i'm starting to use vacuum hold-downs for my work
03:00 PM roycroft: it's wonderful if you're working with non-porous substances
03:00 PM travis_farmer[m]: like a fine piece of red oak? ;-)
03:01 PM roycroft: it depends on how smooth the oak is
03:01 PM travis_farmer[m]: i was kidding, red oak is porous ;-)
03:02 PM travis_farmer[m]: but a nice maple, smooth on the back, may work well
03:04 PM travis_farmer[m]: i thought about those vacuum pods. but the vacuum generator for those is derived from compressed air. seems like a lot of air would be used... may be fine with a HVAC vacuum pump and a storage tank...
03:05 PM travis_farmer[m]: pre-painted wood i think would stick very well to vacuum pods
03:05 PM JT-Woodshop: hvac pumps are high vacuum low volume
03:06 PM travis_farmer[m]: hence the storage tank ;-)
03:07 PM roycroft: red oak end grain is very porous
03:07 PM roycroft: it's like a bunch of straws
03:07 PM JT-Woodshop: be a bad day if you ran out of vacuum...
03:08 PM XXCoder: welcome back from store jt ;)
03:08 PM roycroft: but long grain isn't very porous, and when it's reasonably smooth it works well with a vacuum clamp
03:08 PM JT-Woodshop: :)
03:08 PM roycroft: softwoods are actually more problematic, because they tend to have more extreme differences in hardness between the annual rings and the pith wood
03:09 PM roycroft: and as you sand a softwood board it can actually become rougher, as the pith wood is removed at a much more rapid rate than the annual rings
03:09 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, that's why i don't like softwood flooring
03:10 PM travis_farmer[m]: doesn't sand as smooth
03:10 PM travis_farmer[m]: feels smooth, but once you put the finish to it and look at a long angle...
03:11 PM XXCoder: coat it in 1/2 inch epoxy
03:11 PM XXCoder: nah kidding
03:15 PM * JT-Woodshop looks for the next piece of wood while the glue cures
03:16 PM roycroft: i've held porous materials with a vacuum clamp by covering the underside with packing tape
03:16 PM roycroft: when i'm sanding both sides of a piece of wood that does not work well
03:16 PM roycroft: but if i'm doing edge treatments chamfers or roundovers it can work well
03:18 PM travis_farmer[m]: admittedly, i have used 3M command strips, when doing quick test cuts on my machine. work well, but the wood moves if you cut with too much force...
03:43 PM Bleepshop: Toss a sheet of paper on top if it's a small part. Sheet of newspaper for big stuff.
03:45 PM Bleepshop: I've got a stack of the Green Fire Times from months ago sitting next to the CNC at work to deal with mdf and endgrain panels.
03:45 PM Bleepshop: And if you drive a cutter through it no big deal. :D
03:48 PM roycroft: my plan, when i ever finally get my cnc router constructed, is to not have a spinning cutter make any rogue movements
03:48 PM roycroft: how well i'll execute that plan consistently remains to be seen
03:49 PM travis_farmer[m]: that is really everybody's plan... though, sometimes, crap happens
03:49 PM roycroft: sometimes i'm not sure that everyone thinks that far ahead
03:50 PM travis_farmer[m]: not only do i never think ahead, i try to avoid thinking at all ;-)
03:51 PM roycroft: thinking can definitely make one's brain hurt
03:51 PM roycroft: but not thinking can make one's other bits hurt even more
03:51 PM travis_farmer[m]: lol
03:51 PM travis_farmer[m]: that thought makes my brain hurt ;-)
04:04 PM XXCoder: wow morley is busy lately
04:04 PM XXCoder: lots commits
04:10 PM JT-Woodshop: travis_farmer[m], did you look at the thc component? it converts velocity to volts so similar
04:10 PM travis_farmer[m]: i did a while back, yes
04:13 PM travis_farmer[m]: hmm, i should use something similar to this line from it: "if(volts < 0){volts = 0;} // make sure volts is not negative". keep me from getting neg RPS values
04:16 PM JT-Woodshop: sounds reasonable
04:23 PM travis_farmer[m]: for that matter, i can add some parameters for the scaling and offset values to allow me to adjust the numbers without recompiling the comp...
04:33 PM travis_farmer[m]: now, if only i had a real good use for my Arduino ModBus project... seems like there is something it would be good for...
05:38 PM XXCoder: ugh
05:38 PM XXCoder: I feel like I worked hard for 8 hours
05:38 PM XXCoder: and its just a hour of shiopping food
05:48 PM Tom_L: couple dowel pins makes vacuum fixtures work alot better
05:49 PM Tom_L: also https://www.miteebite.com/products/
05:49 PM Tom_L: a wide variety of options
05:51 PM XXCoder: tom by providing some side force protection?
05:51 PM Tom_L: https://www.fixtureworks.com/store/pc/side-edge-clamps-v30.htm
05:51 PM Tom_L: or those
05:51 PM Tom_L: side and downward force
06:38 PM _unreal_: Bleepshop, I only found one of those fuse types din rail
06:39 PM XXCoder: nice blondihack today. nothing complex but
06:48 PM roycroft: we're having our
06:48 PM roycroft: "informational meeting" tonight where the petitioners and the director being up for a removal vote get to argue their cases
06:49 PM roycroft: i have no time for videos today - i've been working on meeting stuff since 6 this morning, and i won't be done until late tonight
06:49 PM roycroft: but hopefully, my work load for the non-profit will lessen after tonight until the ballots start coming in
06:55 PM roycroft: quinn is in the middle of another steam engine build, so i'll assume that is what today's video is about
06:55 PM XXCoder: nope
06:55 PM XXCoder: thats all spoiler youre getting
07:05 PM roycroft: ok :)
07:05 PM roycroft: tomorrow i shall have a semblence of a life back, with luck
07:06 PM roycroft: so i'll try to watch it then
07:08 PM XXCoder: joe is pretty good today too
07:14 PM roycroft: our meeting tonight is over at 8:40, so maybe i'll have time to be distracted later on in the evening
07:18 PM skunkworks[m]: roycroft: just updated our 5 proxmox nodes to 7 finally..
07:18 PM roycroft: nice
07:19 PM skunkworks[m]: suprisingly uneventful..
07:19 PM roycroft: i'm on 7.x on most of the ones i manage, but some are still on older versions
07:19 PM roycroft: i'm very impressed with proxmox
07:19 PM roycroft: it works brilliantly, and i've never had any weird surprises
07:19 PM skunkworks[m]: Me too..
07:20 PM roycroft: i've even manged to do some things that are pretty scary, such as converting a proxmox node from cluster to stand-alone, and it's always worked
07:21 PM roycroft: i have totally given up on vmware esxi now
07:21 PM roycroft: i no longer have that running anywhere
07:22 PM skunkworks[m]: right. Been happy with it. running on pretty old hardware too - other than one epyc main server.
07:22 PM roycroft: yes
07:22 PM roycroft: and that's one of the issues i always had with esxi
07:22 PM roycroft: it's quite particular about the hardware it runs on
07:22 PM roycroft: proxmox is kind of slutty - it will run on anything and everything
07:23 PM skunkworks[m]: lol
07:23 PM roycroft: and since i don't care who my hypevisor sleeps with, as long as it gets its job done, i don't mind that at all
07:33 PM XXCoder: whats rpoxmox?
07:33 PM XXCoder: proxmox
07:34 PM roycroft: a linux-based hypervisor
07:34 PM skunkworks[m]: https://proxmox.com/en/
07:35 PM skunkworks[m]: with high availability..
07:35 PM XXCoder: sigh site is bit bording on readability
07:35 PM XXCoder: bordering
07:36 PM XXCoder: gray/dark gray is fine with thicker font. they use quite thin font
07:36 PM roycroft: when we had our own datacenter we ran pve on amd64 1u machines with 10Gb ethernet interfaces, and used truenas nases for storage
07:36 PM XXCoder: had tp highlight bopttom area to see that its talking about cookies.
07:36 PM skunkworks[m]: I came in one day and didn't check my email.. I get a phone call from the art department.. The art they were ripping had a water mark on it. (like we didn't have a licence for the software)
07:37 PM skunkworks[m]: dawned on me the main proxmox server died and everything fell over to the backup servers.
07:38 PM roycroft: yeah, once i have everything converted to pve + truenas my pager rarely went off
07:38 PM skunkworks[m]: the usb hasp's were on the main server - so yes - no license... no one noticed that it happened.
07:38 PM roycroft: i'd get the occasional email saying something had failed
07:38 PM roycroft: and i'd go fix it when i had the time
07:38 PM skunkworks[m]: Mainly spinny drives..
07:38 PM roycroft: yup
07:38 PM roycroft: and i always kept hot spares in the truenas machines
07:39 PM roycroft: so when a drive would fail, i'd get an email
07:39 PM roycroft: and when i had a chance i'd log in and put the hot spare online
07:39 PM roycroft: and then order a new drive while it was resilvering
07:40 PM roycroft: so much more relaxed than "OMG! A DRIVE FAILED! WE HAVE TO RESTORE FORM BACKUPS, AND WE'RE DOWN UNTIL THAT IS DONE!"
07:40 PM skunkworks[m]: exactly - I (knock on wood) haven't had a failure like that in ages.
07:41 PM roycroft: pve + truenas changes system administration from ac/dc to perry como
07:42 PM * roycroft isn't a heavy metal fan, and isn't sure if ac/dc are the best example of the genre
07:42 PM skunkworks[m]: understood
07:43 PM skunkworks[m]: Huh - I will have to try truenas.. We have been running linux+samba based running off pve zfs file system
07:45 PM skunkworks[m]: (mainly because that is what we were doing be fore proxmox)
07:56 PM skunkworks[m]: also running a number of windows based vm's that seem to work better than when they were on physical hardware..
08:05 PM roycroft: truenas is great
08:05 PM roycroft: in large part because it has a really good web front-end that makes it pretty much an appliance
08:06 PM roycroft: but it still has bsd + zfs so when the front-end doesn't do what you need you can shell in and deal with things
08:09 PM skunkworks[m]: You are using truenas as vm's within proxmox? or containers?
08:12 PM roycroft: no no no
08:13 PM roycroft: truenas runs on bare iron
08:13 PM roycroft: it performs horrible in a vm
08:13 PM roycroft: i just use it as external storage for the vms
08:13 PM skunkworks[m]: ah
08:19 PM roycroft: truenas also has high availability
08:19 PM roycroft: so it's a pretty bullet-proof combo
08:23 PM roycroft: what a wonderful happenstance
08:24 PM roycroft: i made one of my favorite pasta dishes for dinner tonight
08:24 PM roycroft: bucatoni with a fried eggplant and anchovy sauce
08:24 PM roycroft: and the market was out of fresh italian basil
08:25 PM roycroft: not wanting to suffer with dried basil, i decided that fresh thai basil might work well in the recpie, and it really did
08:25 PM roycroft: the minty/cinnamony notes from the thai basil really work well with the pasta
08:26 PM roycroft: so now my already fusiony recipe, because i can't get fresh italian hot peppers here, and have to substitute for mexican hot peppers, is even more fusiony
08:26 PM roycroft: it's italian/mexican/thai now
08:34 PM Tom_L: chef roy
08:40 PM roycroft: i just like good food, and it's fun to figure out new recipes
08:44 PM Tom_L: yep.. i'm no chef but i like good food
08:45 PM Tom_L: any more planning on your cnc?
08:50 PM roycroft: none
08:50 PM Tom_L: :/
08:51 PM roycroft: i have literally been working day and night, typically from 5 or 5:30am until close to midnight, seven days a week, since this stupid petition and special election thing came up
08:51 PM roycroft: i've had very few breaks
08:51 PM roycroft: and when i get a couple hours in the evening, i just want to mindlessly watch something on tv, and not work on the cnc router project
08:51 PM roycroft: but we count ballots on february 19th
08:51 PM roycroft: that's less than a month away now
08:54 PM * roycroft is full right now
08:54 PM roycroft: brain full
08:54 PM roycroft: energy full
08:54 PM roycroft: drama full
08:55 PM Tom_L: maybe it'll slow down then
08:56 PM roycroft: it should
08:57 PM roycroft: actually, it should slow down a little after this meeting tonight
08:57 PM roycroft: i mailed 5000 ballots on thursday
08:57 PM roycroft: after this meeting, i'll just have to deal with moderating the forum ,and waiting for the ballots to start coming back
08:57 PM roycroft: so i'm hoping i'll have a bit of a break for a couple weeks
08:59 PM roycroft: i thought volunteer work was supposed to be enriching and rewarding
08:59 PM roycroft: right now it's just being a lot of hard, thankless work
08:59 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Only for the virtue signaling organizers. LOL
09:01 PM roycroft: it will get better
09:01 PM roycroft: and if it's not raining to badly, i'm going to go walk on our land tomorrow to remind me of why i do this
09:28 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: And if it is raining you'll take a rowboat? ;D
09:53 PM solarwind: What is he doing here where the grease is causing the tracks to get tensioned? https://youtu.be/siDdxAq4o_Y?t=1790
09:53 PM solarwind: What's going on there exactly? What kind of mechanism is that, that needs to be pumped full of grease to tension the tracks? Is the grease somehow dispensed over time?
09:54 PM XXCoder: no idea, wonder if its heavy duty version of pressurized system lol
10:11 PM Bleepshop: solarwind: It's using the grease like hydraulic oil.
10:12 PM Bleepshop: We've got a blade tensioner at work that functions like that.You preload it with grease and then tighten down a huge handscrew to lock the blades to the shaft they run on.
10:13 PM Bleepshop: solarwind: You ever pop out a pilot bearing on a stick shift with grease and a bolt? Same principle. Look it up on youtube if you want to see it work.
11:17 PM roycroft: bleepshop: the main paths where we have most of the craft and food booths are in a flood plain, right next to the river that runs through our land
11:17 PM roycroft: those paths flood almost every year, and many people have kayaked through that area in the winter
11:52 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Isn't that the Autzen Stadium floodplain?