#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 16 2023
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:52 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:51 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:05 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning all my fine friends! (and everybody else too) :-)
03:05 AM XXCoder: good pre-morning!
03:06 AM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] stepperonline.com E6 series super cheap servo + drive full manual finally available: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/index.php?route=product/product/get_file&file=3067/E6_Series_Full_User_Manual.pdf
03:07 AM solarwind: 1kW kit for $260 USD, supports pulse input, analog velocity and torque control, CAN bus
03:07 AM solarwind: I'm ordering right now to test it out
03:09 AM travis_farmer[m]: pre-morning?
03:09 AM XXCoder: its 1 am here lol
03:09 AM XXCoder: solar man wish im that rich to just randomly buy 250 usd thing on impluse. even when I was working I couldnt do that lol
03:09 AM travis_farmer[m]: ahh, ok. thought you were closer to the east coast for some reason :-)
03:10 AM XXCoder: lol
03:10 AM solarwind: XXCoder as the kids say, "yolo"
03:10 AM solarwind: and I have no kids of my own, so there's that
03:10 AM XXCoder: no kids also
03:11 AM travis_farmer[m]: same here, they cost too much ;-)
03:11 AM solarwind: waaayyyyy too much
03:11 AM sensille: too much for what you get?
03:12 AM travis_farmer[m]: ain't that the truth
03:12 AM solarwind: I'm pretty sure you don't get any kind of return on investment
03:12 AM travis_farmer[m]: not unless they pay rent from the start ;-)
03:13 AM travis_farmer[m]: and somebody to take care of you when you get old ;-)
03:18 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
04:30 AM Tom_L: morning
04:57 AM Tom_L: kids have rewards, if they don't ask yourself if you raised them that way
05:00 AM travis_farmer[m]: still don't think i will have kids. the closeness involved with producing them, is against the grain for a lot of autistics... i mean, i can barely make friends, so how am i supposed to get close enough to someone to make a family?
05:01 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:07 AM JT-Cave: nasty rainy day here
06:28 AM MrSunshine: https://snipboard.io/mPxBz2.jpg hmm har lite konstiga problem med ett höj och sänkbart bord .. dels få rjag inte igång det .. dels så kommer och faller +5v om och om igen när man har motorerna anslutna .. började leta runt spänningsdelen för +5v och hittade detta .den översta lilla komponenten ser bränd ut och känns skrovlig på bakdelen om man säger där inte banden sitter
06:29 AM MrSunshine: mäter den till 650 ohm, in circuit då .. skulle de kunna stämma med tanke på banden ?
06:29 AM MrSunshine: den nedanför vid spolen ser ut å vara samma värde
06:36 AM MrSunshine: humm, väldigt konstiga mätningar in circuit ... :P
06:37 AM MrSunshine: ena går till typ 3k andra ligger på 30k .. och pendlar/stiger etc
06:43 AM rmu: hmm. that looks welsh to me. or swedish?
07:15 AM cpresser: > .cust.bahnhof.se my bet is on swedish :)
07:15 AM cpresser: MrSunshine: can you please write your question again using the english language?
09:24 AM MrSunshine: ffs... wrong channel :P
09:24 AM MrSunshine: haha
09:26 AM MrSunshine: cpresser, was not about cnc its a motorized table that i have problem with ... that is the +5v generating circuit and the upper resistor looks burnt .. but never seen that kind of banding etc on resistors before as its only 2 bands
09:26 AM MrSunshine: the voltage is stable +5v .. then poof its gone .. then it comes back etc
09:27 AM MrSunshine: but same on the "high voltage" side of the converter .. so something is wrong somewhere :P
09:32 AM cpresser: MrSunshine: could you solve it in the meantime?
09:38 AM travis_farmer[m]: sensille: Regarding using "VERSION=1.1" in the config: just tried it, and no difference. still nothing back from the VFD. i came back in from the shop though, as the weather is getting pretty bad with freezing rain. will be working on indoor projects, it would seem.
09:39 AM sensille: travis_farmer[m]: pity. was worth a try
09:40 AM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i agree. but maybe something else will fix it, just not today ;-)
09:44 AM rmu: MrSunshine: you sure that's a resistor?
10:23 AM MrSunshine: rmu, nope .. never seen those components before .. :/
10:24 AM MrSunshine: the lower one is in series with the inductor
10:25 AM MrSunshine: or atleast seem to be
10:30 AM MrSunshine: could be diodes it seems
10:31 AM rmu: even capacitors or anything
10:31 AM rmu: what kind of buck regulator is this?
10:31 AM rmu: can't make out the laser marking
10:32 AM MrSunshine: https://www.onepcba.com/ds/MC34063ADG.pdf
10:36 AM MrSunshine: https://snipboard.io/JjVWkR.jpg looks like its a diode the lower one atleast
10:36 AM MrSunshine: hmm but thats an inverting schematic
10:36 AM MrSunshine: i suck at this :P
10:36 AM rmu: the diode is the balck thing next to inductor/chip
10:37 AM rmu: those brown things probably really are resistors
10:39 AM rmu: https://www.vishay.com/en/resistors-fixed/melf/
10:40 AM MrSunshine: yes, but the fact that they are only 2 band .. if its not 3 and last band is black on black
10:41 AM MrSunshine: i hate this table .. i can communicate with it if the motors are not connected but logicdata has their software locked down so cant even read error codes from the mcu
10:41 AM rmu: it is strange indeed, but what do i know ;)
10:41 AM MrSunshine: and the diagnostics file that i can read from the table is a binary blob.. sigh
10:45 AM MrSunshine: never ever going to touch a device that says logicdata on it again .. if you cant even be allowed to see the diagnostics information without paying for stuff
10:46 AM MrSunshine: its not a frekkin space rocket!
11:30 AM CloudEvil: MrSunshine: yeah, you're gonna have a bad time with that.
11:30 AM CloudEvil: Perhaps never buy anything made after 1950.
11:33 AM CloudEvil: It is depressing how many appliance repairs would be a lot easier if you bite the bullet, and just replace it with linuxcnc controls.
11:34 AM CloudEvil: (though most appliances won't be perhaps an ideal fit for this particular software)
11:45 AM MrSunshine: CloudEvil, i want the table to work, else i will use the motors for some cool project =) 3 linear actuators to use =)
11:46 AM CloudEvil: MrSunshine: I mean replace the control board with something open, and then just say fuckit to everything but the motors and mechanics.
11:52 AM travis_farmer[m]: man, i wish this weather would go away... freezing rain, sleet... makes the walk from the house to the shop require traction aids i don't currently have. i did manage to transfer the I3 motherboard, PSU and hard-drive to a 4U generic server case that will work great as a CNC computer case. once the case fans suck in some sawdust, and clog up everything, it will be just perfect ;-)
11:58 AM roycroft: the sun is trying to peek through the clouds here, but it's a struggle
11:59 AM roycroft: if your shed is that dusty i recommend a duct from the power supply air inlet in the computer to the outside
12:00 PM travis_farmer[m]: it isn't, yet ;-)
12:00 PM roycroft: better to fill the air in your shop with the lovely scent of moose droppings than to stuff the computer full of sawdust
12:02 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i plan on putting the computer and network crap into a filtered enclosure, when it comes time. should help out a bunch, providing i can keep the filter cleen. i hope the dust collection system i have yet to design will take care of most of the dust.
12:03 PM roycroft: there's the real solution
12:03 PM roycroft: because if the air is bad for your computer it's bad for your lungs
12:03 PM roycroft: and wearing a respirator whenever you're in the shop is no fun
12:04 PM travis_farmer[m]: exactly
12:06 PM travis_farmer[m]: it is my hope to divide the new shed in half, with a clean-ish entry, where the computer stuff can go, and the machine side. but if the dust collection works, it won't be necessary.
12:13 PM travis_farmer[m]: having an idea debate with myself: with my air powered ATC system, if for some reason i lose air, the tool holder could drop out of the spindle and cause issues. i was thinking on the lock/unlock air valve, just before it, place a small reserve tank, and an air check valve. that way, if i lose air suddenly from any number of types of failures, the machine will retain air long enough to come to a stop, and so forth. Good idea? or
12:13 PM travis_farmer[m]: needless expense?
12:14 PM roycroft: i think that if i operated an air powered atc i would have it fail locked, like the brakes on truck trailers
12:15 PM roycroft: i don't know much about how those atcs work, but if it requires air to hold the toolholder in place i would consider that a serious and dangerous design flaw
12:15 PM travis_farmer[m]: i don't think that is an option, adding a retention spring like a Maxi-Brake...
12:16 PM travis_farmer[m]: should be
12:16 PM * roycroft would probably use something else, or no atc at all
12:17 PM roycroft: having a big cutter suddenly fall down while spinning at 24,000 rpm is just not my idea of a good time
12:17 PM travis_farmer[m]: i think they are all like that, to some extent...
12:17 PM roycroft: once, about 40 years ago, i had a 1/2" router bit come out of the hand-held router
12:18 PM roycroft: i still don't know how/why that happened
12:18 PM roycroft: but it put a hole through the wall of my shop
12:18 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, kinda thinking the air reserve may be a good idea then...
12:18 PM roycroft: it could have been me, and not the shop wall, that was its target
12:19 PM roycroft: i don't know what i'd do about an atc for my cnc router
12:19 PM roguish[m]: travis_farmer: are you speaking of a tool changer, or the collet itself ???
12:19 PM roycroft: i've never even begun to ponder that
12:19 PM roycroft: because i don't think i'd need it
12:19 PM travis_farmer[m]: the ATC spindle, roguish
12:19 PM roycroft: but for my mill, the atc would still use the drawbar
12:19 PM roycroft: and there are atcs for mills that do that
12:20 PM roycroft: it has honestly never occured to me that an atc setup would require positive air pressure to hold the tooling in the spindle
12:21 PM roycroft: that is scary beyond imagination
12:21 PM roguish[m]: what ever is holding the entire tool holder should be fool proof. like i'm making a power draw bar to hold the collet and tool in. the PDB will be spring loaded tight, pneumatic to release.
12:21 PM * zephyr9900 agrees with roycroft
12:21 PM roycroft: yeah, that's pretty normal for a mill
12:22 PM travis_farmer[m]: Hmm, this is double-acting air...
12:22 PM travis_farmer[m]: so it looks on the diagram
12:22 PM roycroft: please have a good, hard think before you install that, if it really does require positive air pressure to hold the tooling in the spindle
12:23 PM roycroft: we'd hate to see you ping out here eventually and never return
12:23 PM travis_farmer[m]: maybe it has a spring they didn't tell about...
12:23 PM roguish[m]: make it fool proof. like Roy said, a tool and holder coming loose in operation is very scary, and potentially wicked dangerous
12:24 PM * roycroft gets the heebie jeebies just thinking about it
12:24 PM travis_farmer[m]: that's why i was getting advice on the debate. the cheap part of me didn't think the reserve was important. now i think it is VERY important
12:24 PM roycroft: no, i don't think it's important at all
12:24 PM roycroft: what's important is to not require air to hold it in place
12:25 PM travis_farmer[m]: do tell?
12:25 PM travis_farmer[m]: maybe it doesn't, i won't know untill i can add air to it. then i can remove the air and see if i can pull the tool holder out.
12:27 PM travis_farmer[m]: i know i can't push the tool holder in, and it doesn't have air now. maybe it has a light spring to keep the tool holder from falling out, but needs the air pressure to draw it tight enough to spin with any torque
12:28 PM * travis_farmer[m] uploaded an image: (283KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/hgWYgpKmIkTUiwrbjojEzzaq/Screenshot%202022-12-30%20at%2004-01-39%20%E3%80%90US%E3%80%91CNC%204.5KW%20BT30%20ATC%20Air%20Cooled%20Spindle%20Motor%20220V%20Kit%205.5KW%20FL%20Inverter%20vfd%20eBay.png >
12:28 PM travis_farmer[m]: thats the diagram i have
12:29 PM bjorkintosh: whose work is this? https://raspberry.piaustralia.com.au/pages/the-raspberry-pi-that-ships-other-raspberry-pis
12:29 PM bjorkintosh: it's damned impressive!
12:31 PM jpa-: travis_farmer[m]: pretty likely it needs air only for toolchange
12:32 PM travis_farmer[m]: i hope you are correct, jpa-
12:33 PM jpa-: but in any case you want some sensor, as automatic toolchange with tool not coming out is quite destructive :)
12:35 PM travis_farmer[m]: i have an air-pressure sensor coming that i can set to the minimum safe PSI, and that could be connected either to e-stop, or some other pin. plus the spindle has sensors to tell when the tool is locked or unlocked.
12:39 PM jpa-: good :)
12:50 PM roguish[m]: travis_farmer: on my old BP. it needs air for the knee assist. lost air and the knee dropped and back burned out a drive..... so I did just that, air pressure sensor the inhibits the drives if not right.
12:54 PM travis_farmer[m]: it will be a PITA waiting for the air compressor to build air, so the e-stop will clear, but not as much of a PITA if a tool holder flies through it ;-)
01:00 PM solarwind: Is it just me or is 0.2 degree accuracy crap for a capacitive encoder? https://www.cuidevices.com/product/resource/amt20.pdf
01:00 PM solarwind: Why is it getting harder to find 4000 count optical encoders? I have to buy the motor + optical encoder from stepperonline just to salvage the encoder off of it
01:01 PM solarwind: And that motor + encoder combo is still a tad bit cheaper than one of these AMT capacitive encoders and gives you _exact_ accuracy
01:02 PM solarwind: well accurate to the count, which is 0.09 degrees
01:02 PM roycroft: because covid and supply chain and other unrelated things
01:03 PM roycroft: that's the standard excuse for anything weird these days
01:05 PM solarwind: They have 14 bit resolution ones too, but they're all limited to 0.2º accuracy. What they don't mention in the datasheet is the hysteresis
01:06 PM solarwind: So I don't know if the 14 bit would even be useful for its precision if the hysteresis is the dominant factor
01:06 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] you seem like you would know
01:07 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, around?
01:08 PM skunkworks[m]: solarwind: yep - they suck
01:08 PM solarwind: Also ZincBoy[CAON][m] pcw--home, can either of you recommend a small FPGA/CPLD dev board? tinyfpga.com is out of stock on everything
01:10 PM * beef[m] uploaded an image: (534KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/stoFXGgsiUVybJNSAOyiotiL/a3pBxQpX_700w_0.png >
01:10 PM beef[m]: linuxcnc when you start configuring non-standard stuff 😅
01:11 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, have you ever ordered from rarewoodsusa.com?
01:11 PM beef[m]: they're usually only 1000 lines, and two offset readers give you the 4000 count quadrature output
01:11 PM solarwind: beef[m] yeah 1000 lines is 4000 count
01:11 PM XXCoder: beef lol
01:11 PM solarwind: the count is the important number, that's the actual resolution
01:11 PM beef[m]: ^
01:12 PM skunkworks[m]: solarwind: I never got the cui encoders to behave decently...
01:12 PM skunkworks[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RWqHW2AtrA
01:12 PM solarwind: skunkworks[m] ok thanks for the heads up, I'll stay away
01:13 PM solarwind: there are 17 bit magnetic encoders on these: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/e6-series-750w-ac-servo-motor-kit-3000rpm-2-39nm-17-bit-encoder-ip65-e6-rs750h2a2-m17s
01:13 PM solarwind: I wonder what the actual accuracy and hysteresis is
01:13 PM solarwind: Waiting to get back a quote from them to swap the encoder to optical
01:14 PM skunkworks[m]: I got some 5000 line encoders off of ebay a while ago.. Optical. They are nice..
01:14 PM skunkworks[m]: solarwind: what are you trying to do
01:15 PM beef[m]: are you looking for encoders to throw on the back side of motors, or something separate to put on ballscrews or end of a 4th axis or something?
01:17 PM solarwind: beef[m] both
01:18 PM solarwind: skunkworks[m] some experiments, some practical applications for motors, some practical applications to mount on lathe spindles, rotary tables, ball screws
01:20 PM beef[m]: https://www.ebay.com/itm/394311166068 not sure how helpful these guys would be, but they have up to 5k p/r (i assume pulse/revolution)
01:23 PM beef[m]: these can type ones seem pretty popular, but i can only really find brakes for attaching to the ass end of a motor, encoders seem harder
01:23 PM XXCoder: 5000 points per rotation?
01:24 PM beef[m]: i would assume that's what p/r means - pulses or counts
01:24 PM XXCoder: ok wanted to be sure I have correct picture. not bad really
01:25 PM beef[m]: * these can type ones seem pretty popular, but i can only really find brakes for attaching to the ass end of a motor, encoder kits for nema sized stuff seem harder
01:28 PM beef[m]: i have those 4k count encoders on steppers though, and with 2010 ballscrews and i have sufficient feedback to "theoretically" get 0.0025mm (although of course i won't hit it because some amount of hysterisis plus backlash plus i have my max microsteps at 1000/revolution so he's bouncing +/- 0.01mm on every microstep anyway
01:28 PM beef[m]: * +/- 0.01mm or more on every
01:28 PM XXCoder: beef way I view it, want .01mm resolution? have .001mm sensors type
01:29 PM XXCoder: .005mm with small error
01:29 PM beef[m]: that's fair
01:29 PM beef[m]: i've got a linear scale that i'm going to use to map the screw in a few weeks which will help improve it, but honest I don't need 0.01mm anyway
01:29 PM beef[m]: 0.05mm is already way more sufficient than I need for everything I'm doing - anything better is icing on the cake and for a DIY machine I won't complain
01:30 PM XXCoder: indeed then those is plenty
01:30 PM solarwind: beef[m] yup those would be good
01:31 PM beef[m]: I did a printNC style build with 150x150x5 steel for everything and in a few weeks i'm filling machine with non-shrink grout to improve the vibrations in steel / alu (not bad chatter but it's there at certain RPM ranges). LinuxCNC makes it really easy to do the compensation mapping too
01:34 PM solarwind: thanks for that link, $75 USD for 20,000 count optical encoder is a good price
01:36 PM beef[m]: i don't know if it's 20k count, I think it's 5k count
01:36 PM solarwind: beef[m] no you select the model you want
01:36 PM solarwind: In the little dropdown box
01:36 PM XXCoder: 5k is max I can select
01:36 PM solarwind: They have a whole range of resolutions
01:36 PM solarwind: yeah that's 5k pulses
01:36 PM beef[m]: 5k is the max i can select too
01:36 PM solarwind: 5k ppr = 20,000 cpr
01:37 PM solarwind: I don't know why they specify the pulses, the counts is the more important number. Just multiply by 4
01:37 PM XXCoder: cool
01:38 PM beef[m]: 🧐 https://eltra-encoder.eu/news/encoder-ppr-and-cpr
01:38 PM beef[m]: ```Be aware! Some manufacturers use the term PPR as the number of periods per turn. A period in this case is one full form of encoder signal cycle, including high and low states (1 and 0). In this case, the encoder may have a different resolution value, but it is also called as PPR.```
01:38 PM solarwind: for example, 12 bit resolution means 4096 values, which is the equivalent of 4096 counts
01:38 PM unterhaus_: I think they have to stick with the system they have now because everyone would be confused otherwise
01:39 PM beef[m]: i mean, i started confident and am getting less confident as time goes on - would be best to send a question to the seller and double-check 😅
01:39 PM unterhaus_: I see 5k pulses and automatically think 20k counts
01:39 PM solarwind: but since these are incremental quadrature encoders, doesn't make sense to say "12 bit"
01:39 PM solarwind: unterhaus_ same
01:39 PM beef[m]: yeah, i've only seen bits related to absolute encoders
01:40 PM unterhaus_: is it possible they are analog underneath?
01:40 PM solarwind: beef[m] it's pretty standard, especially from a well established manufacturer like omron
01:40 PM skunkworks[m]: 5k isn
01:40 PM solarwind: unterhaus_ not if it's optical
01:40 PM pcw--home: Not a dev board but for cheap FPGA boards I think the surplus ColorLight boards are about the cheapest
01:40 PM unterhaus_: 12 bit would make sense if it was absolute
01:40 PM beef[m]: ok thanks, I wasn't familiar with omron at all
01:40 PM solarwind: beef[m] omron is a high end japanese manufacturer, like on the level of fanuc, yaskawa etc
01:41 PM unterhaus_: there are analog optical, look at a heidenhein catalog
01:41 PM beef[m]: i just don't trust things from ebay to always be the 'real deal' unless they're covered in dust and look like 30 years old
01:41 PM solarwind: pcw--home thanks!
01:41 PM solarwind: pcw--home by the way: https://rhsresearch.com/products/nitefury-xilinx-artix-fpga-kit-in-nvme-ssd-form-factor-2280-key-m?pr_prod_strat=collection_fallback&pr_rec_id=4785bd15a&pr_rec_pid=7515406794909&pr_ref_pid=5362768412829&pr_seq=uniform
01:42 PM solarwind: pcw--home $150 artix 7 native PCIe board
01:42 PM skunkworks[m]: hard to tell if those encoders are differential...
01:42 PM XXCoder: guess best ask seller
01:42 PM solarwind: Sadly not many I/O exposed, but true PCIe connection to the FPGA if you want to mess around with the PCIe endpoint block
01:42 PM XXCoder: if seller knows nothing, thats your answer too
01:43 PM solarwind: skunkworks[m] look at the label, doesn't look like it
01:43 PM solarwind: but I don't really care about that, it's trivial to put a transceiver on there
01:44 PM solarwind: what I cannot do is manufacture a 20k count code wheel
01:44 PM solarwind: so if they got that part working well, I can deal with mounting, signal integrity, etc.
01:45 PM pcw--home: That's cheaper than the FPGA chip (but will they ever be available again?)
01:45 PM Rowowfarmblownx1 is now known as Rowow5457[m]
01:47 PM skunkworks[m]: solarwind: true. I have done the same - actually cui used to make transceivers for their single ended encoders - I bought them...
01:51 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, skunkworks[m], either have time to test something?
01:52 PM Tom_L: you need a spindle with an encoder/index channel
01:52 PM Tom_L: actually you may not even need that
01:52 PM solarwind: pcw--home are you sure? Artix 7 isn't _that_ expensive
01:54 PM Tom_L: add: sets spindle-index-enable yo the hal and see if you get an error something like 'pin not found', then try the same with sets spindle.0.index-enable
01:55 PM Tom_L: s/yo/to
01:55 PM Tom_L: then do the same for each on the hal show mdi input
01:56 PM Tom_L: i'm running 2.8.4 and dunno if it was fixed in a later version or if it's broke
01:57 PM pcw--home: Yes no XC7A200 less than $288 at least at digikey
01:58 PM pcw--home: _Many_ general FPGA prices have double/tripled during the current shortage
02:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: I wonder how reliable they are
02:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the 1kw motors and drives
02:25 PM zephyr9900: What is a good way to search for something in the IRC logs?
02:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or how often you'll get a new flaky one
02:34 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, it's spindle.0.index-enable
02:36 PM JT-Shop: setp spindle.0.index-enable True sets spindle-index-enable true if spindle index is connected to that signal
02:37 PM JT-Shop: zephyr9900, no
02:37 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop it doesn't on mine
02:37 PM Tom_L: that's why i wanted the test
02:38 PM Tom_L: did you try it?
02:38 PM Tom_L: sets not setp right?
02:39 PM pcw--home: Can you have a identical pin and signal name?
02:39 PM Tom_L: no idea
02:40 PM Tom_L: funny though it worked on the cmd line
02:40 PM Tom_L: in hal show
02:40 PM Tom_L: and the pin toggled in the watch window
02:40 PM Tom_L: but not in hal or a subroutine
02:41 PM JT-Shop: I'm running the Axis sim and the signal is named spindle-index-enable
02:41 PM Tom_L: right
02:41 PM JT-Shop: setp sets a pin, sets sets a signal
02:41 PM Tom_L: it should be spindle.0.index-enable though to go along with all the multi spindle stuff now
02:42 PM Tom_L: so do you set the signal or the pin?
02:42 PM JT-Shop: yup and I did test it in axis
02:42 PM JT-Shop: signal, you can't set a pin that's connected to a signal
02:42 PM pcw--home: I think is possible to setp the index enable pin even if connected but it depends on how smart the utility is
02:42 PM JT-Shop: I got an error when I tried
02:43 PM Tom_L: i got errors when i hardcoded it
02:43 PM XXCoder: sigh. watching someone bring in a slab, I already spot ponental crack then he lifts and guess what happens. crack appeared at exact spot I predicted it
02:43 PM XXCoder: sigh
02:43 PM pcw--home: Did you try with current halshow/halcmd?
02:43 PM XXCoder: also, slab lol (was suggested video)
02:43 PM * JT-Shop wanders down to spoil the hens with some wheat grass
02:43 PM Tom_L: this was on 2.8.4 on wheezy
02:44 PM Tom_L: i'm pretty much stuck with that on that pc
02:45 PM pcw--home: well sets [tri-state signal] should work on any system
02:45 PM Tom_L: in 2.9.9pre set spindle-index-enable TRUE sets spindle.0.index-enable in the watch window
02:45 PM Tom_L: from the cmd line
02:52 PM XXCoder: jeez that video sucks. epoxy with zero ppa, etc
02:55 PM Tom_L: pcw--home, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/orient_test/sets_test.png
02:55 PM Tom_L: same error i was getting on the shop pc
02:56 PM Tom_L: i removed everything but the sets line and still get the error
02:57 PM Tom_L: tried with setp spindle.0.index-enable as well... same error
02:57 PM JT-Shop: you can't do a sets in g code
02:57 PM Tom_L: how would you set it then?
02:58 PM Tom_L: i put it in the hal file and got the same/similar error
02:58 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] I just ordered 2
02:58 PM solarwind: I'll do some tests and make a blog post or something with results
02:58 PM Tom_L: i was reading a thread on orient and andy's cheap solution was to execute a very short G33.1
02:59 PM solarwind: Because that price is _really_ good for what I'm getting. Especially given that it supports position, analog torque, analog velocity, CAN bus, RS485
03:00 PM solarwind: And the fact that they're willing to customize it for me and swap the encoder to optical
03:01 PM solarwind: pcw--home damn, you're right, the prices did double and triple wtf
03:01 PM solarwind: It wasn't nearly that high last time I checked. I was keeping an eye on them
03:01 PM solarwind: It was < $100
03:04 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:04 PM Tom_dev: %
03:04 PM Tom_dev: S60
03:04 PM Tom_dev: M3
03:04 PM Tom_dev: G33.1 K.010 Z-.010
03:04 PM Tom_dev: M5
03:04 PM Tom_dev: M2
03:04 PM Tom_dev: %
03:04 PM Tom_L: that set and reset the index pin
03:08 PM JT-Woodshop: did that make orient work?
03:08 PM solarwind: pcw--home there's also this: https://www.crowdsupply.com/alphamax/netv2 it's another PCIe Artix 7 board. Made for hacking HDMI, but still cheap compared to the official Artix 7 evaluation boards
03:08 PM JT-Woodshop: you should only use %% or program end but not both
03:08 PM Tom_L: JT-Woodshop, i tried it in sim
03:08 PM Tom_L: i've always used both :)
03:08 PM * JT-Woodshop calls it a day for work
03:08 PM Tom_L: i'll test it in the shop in a bit
03:08 PM Tom_L: i feel a good nap coming on
03:08 PM JT-Woodshop: I've never used both
03:09 PM Tom_L: some old machines looked for it
03:09 PM Tom_L: i had an old boss5 that originally had a tape reader on it
03:09 PM solarwind: I'm going to order the nitefury. I just wish it had more I/O broken out, but I guess I can live with 4 LVDS pairs. Just have to route it to a second Spartan 6 or similar to expand the I/O
03:09 PM Tom_L: just habit
03:09 PM solarwind: $150 is nuts
03:33 PM zephyr9900: So JT_Woodshop is the documentation wrong?: Demarcating a file with percents is optional if the file has an M2 or M30 in it, but is required if not.
03:35 PM JT-Woodshop: that's correct but the %% + M2 or M30 the % is ignored
03:36 PM JT-Woodshop: but if you forget the program end you don't get what you expect...
03:37 PM zephyr9900: OK because the fusion 360 post processor puts in both. It seems to work OK but if needed I can further hack it (I already made some of my own changes) but want to minimize any hacks.
03:39 PM Tom_L: ok spindle sync works with the G33.1 but orient still just sits there
03:39 PM Tom_L: tried with and without the %%
03:39 PM Tom_L: no change
03:47 PM roycroft: /me wonders if travis_farmer has figured out how to use his atc without risking killing himself
03:47 PM * roycroft hands himself a backspace
04:15 PM JT-Woodshop: roycroft, have you ever ordered from https://www.rarewoodsusa.com/
04:19 PM unterhaus: I just asked xfinity's chatbot if there was a human around to cut the power on the chatbot server
04:20 PM unterhaus: alder is a rare wood nowadays?
04:23 PM * JT[m]1 uploaded an image: (333KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/zIvfAoEbECERPbdxZdSHgyhx/20230116_162242.jpg >
04:25 PM * JT-Woodshop tries to decide if he needs to glue the walnut onto the oak first or try and glue all 24 pieces at once with Titebond III
04:27 PM solarwind: pcw--home actually what I'm seeing is there are a lot of Artix 7 dev boards for < $200
04:27 PM solarwind: Digilent has a bunch as well
04:27 PM solarwind: And Zynq series has PCIe as wel
04:28 PM solarwind: Those chips are < $200 too
04:28 PM unterhaus: I need to sell something to buy some 8/4 maple
04:34 PM * JT-Woodshop wonders what this means for glue Open Assembly Time
04:39 PM DigitalReaper: that's how long you have to assemble things before the glue tacks up too much to be workable
04:40 PM JT-Woodshop: thanks
04:46 PM XXCoder: wow
04:46 PM XXCoder: that rarewoods site is crazy
04:46 PM XXCoder: 84 for one bar of wood lol
04:47 PM XXCoder: usd
04:48 PM roycroft: i have not, jt-woodshop
04:48 PM XXCoder: im sure its worth it for good woods, but yeah I wouldnt buy any because im too cheap to basically
04:48 PM JT-Woodshop: thanks, I'm looking for some yellowheart and they have some but checkout is broken
04:49 PM JT-Woodshop: some slabs of wood are >2k
04:49 PM roycroft: unterhaus: that is not just alder on the rarewoods site
04:49 PM roycroft: it is alder firewood!
04:49 PM roycroft: look at the listings
04:49 PM roycroft: "bark inclusio"
04:49 PM roycroft: "edge defect"
04:49 PM roycroft: "crack"
04:50 PM roycroft: they've taking all the common alder wood that has too many defects to sell as common lumber, and called it "rare"
04:51 PM roycroft: it's kind of an extension of that damned "river table" thing
04:51 PM roycroft: slice a big slab
04:51 PM JT-Woodshop: the live edge shit?
04:51 PM roycroft: "oh, no, it has a giant bark inclusion in it and a bunch of knots"
04:51 PM XXCoder: roy yeah saw video on slab and slab was so bad shape. i basically saw future of crack and ithappened. and im not wood whisper
04:51 PM roycroft: "we can't sell this as a regular slab - let's mark it way up and sell it as a river table slab!"
04:52 PM JT-Woodshop: do you know of a place to buy yellowheart and other woods
04:53 PM roycroft: i buy most of my hardwoods from a couple local vendors, neither of whom do online sales
04:53 PM roycroft: some of the more exotic stuff i get from gilmer hardwoods in portland
04:53 PM roycroft: and they do sell online
04:54 PM roycroft: gilmerwood.com
04:54 PM roycroft: i've been buying from them since the '80s
04:54 PM JT-Woodshop: thanks
04:54 PM roycroft: when i lived up in bellingham and had to drive my '57 chevy pickup down to pdx to visit gilmer woods
04:55 PM roycroft: they specialize in tonewoods and turning blanks now
04:55 PM JT-Woodshop: http://schallerhardwood.com/ I think I'll see what they have in stock tomorrow
04:57 PM XXCoder: 2 dogs lola dust. can be shorted to lol dusty
04:57 PM roycroft: shaller hardwood looks like a much shorter, but more boring road trip
04:57 PM roycroft: for you
04:57 PM roycroft: it would be a long, exciting road trip for me
04:58 PM JT-Woodshop: yep they are in PB
04:58 PM XXCoder: 1400 usd for reject blanks african blackwood clarinet bell
04:58 PM XXCoder: bucket of it
04:58 PM XXCoder: insane
04:58 PM XXCoder: looks awesome though
04:59 PM unterhaus: I want to go to hearne hardwoods. It's a long trip though. but their minimum mail order is $300
05:01 PM JT-Woodshop: dang Schaller has wenge
05:01 PM unterhaus: One of the guys that makes super expensive wood planes recommended a wood vendor to me
05:01 PM * JT-Woodshop makes a shopping list for tomorrow
05:05 PM unterhaus: Ron Brese said he buys from west penn hardwoods
05:06 PM unterhaus: strangely, west penn hardwoods is in north carolina
05:08 PM roycroft: north carolina is west , if you go through nova scotia, iceland, ireland, and the canary islands to get to north carolina
05:08 PM roycroft: there's a lot of wenge around here
05:09 PM roycroft: it's kind of a nice wood, but it is very expensive
05:09 PM CloudEvil: It's easier on the trip back, with a lot of balsa
05:09 PM roycroft: i tried using wenge in lieu of ebony for the inserts on those greene & greene drawer pulls i made last year
05:10 PM unterhaus: west penn lists yellowheart, but I'm not sure they have stock
05:10 PM roycroft: it was a poor substitute, and i ended up dying the wenge black with india ink
05:10 PM roycroft: and it still doesn't look like ebony
05:10 PM roycroft: but that's why i experiment on shop fixtures and not on real products
05:10 PM unterhaus: every domestic on the rarewoods site looks like rejects
05:11 PM roycroft: you mean "firewood"
05:11 PM unterhaus: "secondary wood"
05:11 PM unterhaus: they probably get used to that with imports
05:12 PM roycroft: yeah, that rarewoods site not only sells cracked wood
05:12 PM roycroft: the site managers are on crack
05:12 PM unterhaus: when I was a kid, they sold "slab wood" to poor people to burn
05:12 PM unterhaus: it was the stuff with the bark
05:13 PM unterhaus: now they sell "slab wood" to rich people in the form of tables
05:13 PM Tom_L: JT-Woodshop, i dunno what they have but have you looked at paxton in KC?
05:14 PM unterhaus: I wish the place up the way hadn't gotten totally into river tables and slabs
05:14 PM * roycroft curses all river tables everywhere, except for matt estlea's
05:15 PM Tom_L: https://paxtonwood.com/wood-selector/
05:16 PM * roycroft is in the mood for some fried catfish with yams and collard greens for dinner
05:17 PM Tom_L: i know they've been around for years
05:18 PM unterhaus: does Paxton have prices somewhere
05:18 PM Tom_L: i dunno
05:18 PM unterhaus: when did maple come back into style anyway
05:19 PM unterhaus: I don't want figure, although I would take it
05:22 PM roycroft: maple has alway been a popular wood
05:22 PM roycroft: in my experience, anyway
05:23 PM XXCoder: honestly "popular" is meh. id choose whatever good wood for task, well capped by funds but yeah
05:26 PM roycroft: hard maple is outstanding for drawer sides
05:28 PM Tom_L: i suppose schaller would be a bit closer for you
05:29 PM JT-Shop: it's on the way to the industrial park...
05:29 PM Tom_L: i know years ago paxton had an outlet here
05:30 PM Tom_L: there was also a little hole in the wall that had just about every kind of veneer you could ask for
05:32 PM Tom_L: roycroft, ever do much with beech?
05:32 PM Tom_L: has similar properties iirc
05:36 PM roycroft: yes, i like beech for making tools
05:36 PM roycroft: and fixtures
05:36 PM roycroft: it's kind of boring for making products
05:37 PM Tom_L: well yeah but it's nice and hard
05:38 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Kumiko-Jigs/Block-Plane-Kumiko-Jigs.jpeghttps://roycroft.us/Kumiko-Jigs/Block-Plane-Kumiko-Jigs.jpeg
05:38 PM roycroft: those are beech and walnut
05:38 PM Tom_L: 404
05:39 PM roycroft: oh, double post
05:39 PM roycroft: sorry
05:39 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Kumiko-Jigs/Block-Plane-Kumiko-Jigs.jpeg
05:39 PM roycroft: try that
05:39 PM Tom_L: duh, i didn't even notice that
05:39 PM Tom_L: part of the table you made?
05:40 PM roycroft: i use those for making kumiko
05:40 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Kumiko-Jigs/Disc-Sander-Kumiko-Jigs-3.jpeg
05:40 PM roycroft: there's one of the ones i use with the disc sander
05:40 PM unterhaus: I wouldn't mind some beech or even birch
05:40 PM roycroft: the first link was for the jigs that i use with a chisel or hand plane
05:41 PM unterhaus: but it doesn't seem to be too common around here
05:41 PM roycroft: birch is pretty common here
05:41 PM roycroft: it's a boring wood
05:41 PM roycroft: and not very durable
05:41 PM roycroft: and not very hard
05:41 PM unterhaus: I think it might work for what I'm doing
05:41 PM * JT-Shop calls it a day
05:41 PM unterhaus: I built a table from birch and didn't think it was that bad
05:41 PM roycroft: when i was going to make a scandanavian hand tool bench 20 or so years ago i was going to make it out of birch
05:41 PM roycroft: and i bought a fair amount of birch for that
05:42 PM roycroft: but i never made the workbench
05:42 PM unterhaus: my bench is maple
05:42 PM roycroft: when i made the split roubo workbench a few years ago i decided to make it out of ash with some walnut
05:42 PM unterhaus: going to add a cabinet underneath any day now
05:42 PM roycroft: i still have some of that birch i bought all those years ago
05:43 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Bench/
05:43 PM roycroft: that's the bench i made a few years ago
05:43 PM roycroft: during the first summer of the pandemic
05:46 PM unterhaus: that's a nice looking bench. Mine hasn't looked that nice for a couple of decades :)
05:46 PM roycroft: mine's getting banged up a bit now
05:46 PM roycroft: but it's heavy and solid and very flat
05:46 PM roycroft: all the things a bench needs to e
05:46 PM roycroft: be
05:47 PM FinboySlick: I had to click and instantly become jealous of your Roubeau bench again.
05:48 PM roycroft: i do not have a single complaint about it
05:49 PM FinboySlick: It's such a great design.
05:49 PM roycroft: maybe because i spent so many years deciding exactly what i wanted in a bench
05:49 PM roycroft: it is
05:49 PM roycroft: and such an old design
05:49 PM FinboySlick: Did you get the vise hardware from the plan provider?
05:49 PM FinboySlick: It looks a lot like what I had been looking at ages ago.
05:49 PM FinboySlick: With the X cross in the main vise.
05:50 PM roycroft: when i was first woodworking, everyone thought that the scandanavian bench was the ultimate design
05:50 PM roycroft: but in the early 2000s, the roubeou design design became popular again
05:50 PM roycroft: i got the hardware from benchcrafted
05:51 PM roycroft: i based my design on matt estlea's bench
05:51 PM roycroft: i even purchased plans from him to get the proportions right
05:52 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXKYwM0f5WU
05:53 PM FinboySlick: So dramatic...
05:55 PM roycroft: yeah, he likes that stuff
05:55 PM roycroft: but it's well-produced
05:56 PM roycroft: and matt's a really good woodworker
05:56 PM roycroft: but he screwed up his tail vise cutouts and had to do some patching
05:56 PM roycroft: i got mine right the first time :)
05:57 PM FinboySlick: Yeah, I remember seeing some of his stuff. That's a heck of a workshop too, looks like a school.
05:57 PM roycroft: yes
05:57 PM roycroft: rycotewood, in oxfordshire
05:57 PM roycroft: it's a pretty well-known woodworking school
05:58 PM roycroft: that bench was his senior project
05:58 PM FinboySlick: I think I like my fingers too much to get into woodworking ;)
05:58 PM roycroft: i think he passed, because now he's an instructor at rycotewood
05:59 PM * roycroft still has all his fingers
05:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: are the wooden workbenches popular since the users of these benches don't have tools for working with aluminum shapes and extrusions?
05:59 PM FinboySlick: Well, I don't fully trust myself to keep them.
06:00 PM roycroft: they are popular because they are massive
06:00 PM roycroft: and they look cool
06:00 PM FinboySlick: Yeah, looks like something that isn't prone to rattles.
06:00 PM roycroft: but mainly because they're massive
06:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if all you have is wood and woodworking tools
06:00 PM roycroft: mine weighs ~250kg
06:00 PM Tom_L: back to the 'mine is bigger than yours' thing
06:00 PM roycroft: and that's important on a hand tooling bench
06:01 PM roycroft: when you're pushing a jack plane along a long piece of wood you want your energy to go into moving the plane, not racking the bench
06:02 PM roycroft: when you're cutting a mortise with a big chisel you want your mallet blows to be moving the chisel into the wood, not bending the bench top
06:03 PM FinboySlick: So, granite roubeau bench when?
06:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it was interesting to see the CNC woodworking tools using lots of plastics for the machine frames
06:03 PM roycroft: mine is thick ash
06:03 PM roycroft: it's solid enough for me
06:04 PM FinboySlick: Crazy person, large boulder, lots of patience and a hammer drill.
06:04 PM roycroft: granite could be thinner
06:04 PM roycroft: but then one has to worry about chipping/dulling tools that come in contact with it
06:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: funny how Newton was so mostly correct
06:06 PM beef[m]: but where's my triangles?
06:34 PM unterhaus: There's 3 sawmills the next valley over. I might use Tom_L's idea and make a hotbox
06:52 PM unterhaus: Newton mostly was fed everything useful he came up with by aliens.
07:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: in the form of a fig that fell from the sky and him on the head
07:06 PM unterhaus: I think it was a book that hit him on the head
07:07 PM unterhaus: roycroft, they are making bowls glued up with colored epoxy now
07:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pretty sure it was some sort of fruit
07:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: fruit was popular in ancient England
07:21 PM roycroft: yes, i know, unterhaus
07:21 PM roycroft: i saw one a while back where they took a bunch of colored pencils, stuck them in a tub, filled it with epoxy, and then turned a bowl out of that
07:21 PM roycroft: wtf is up with that?
07:22 PM roycroft: why would someone do that?
07:22 PM roycroft: who would want the end product?
07:22 PM roycroft: has the world lost its collective aesthetic?
07:23 PM XXCoder: its art
07:23 PM XXCoder: art I like? nah but it is art
07:23 PM * roycroft knows he's too easy to trigger, and very predictably, when certain topics come up
07:23 PM roycroft: art?
07:23 PM XXCoder: I saw the lamp version of that color pencils thing too
07:24 PM roycroft: it's not art
07:24 PM roycroft: it's crap
07:24 PM XXCoder: result reminded me of umm not sure whats it called but it was usually colorful
07:24 PM roycroft: and i have a pretty broad concept of what is art
07:24 PM roycroft: but i know that epoxy pencils are not art
07:25 PM roycroft: ooh, there's a new satwcomic today
07:25 PM roycroft: first new one in a while
07:25 PM XXCoder: ?
07:26 PM roycroft: satwcomic.com
07:26 PM roycroft: it's a comic strip about scandanavian countries
07:26 PM XXCoder: interesting
07:26 PM roycroft: scandanavia and the world
07:26 PM roycroft: hence satw
07:27 PM roycroft: it's pretty funny sometimes
07:27 PM roycroft: and always full of truisms
07:27 PM * Tom_L throws a bucket of paint on a wall and calls it art
07:27 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: theres literal installment of pretty much that
07:28 PM XXCoder: it may be art but its crap one to me
07:28 PM roycroft: that's more artistic than pouring plastic over a bunch of pencils and carving the middle out
07:28 PM XXCoder: in least its more refined work that throwing paint
07:28 PM XXCoder: *than
07:28 PM roycroft: there's an art to tossing the paint
07:29 PM roycroft: matt cremona even added a scorecard to his water tosses on his freshly milled slabs recently
07:29 PM roycroft: and there are style points
07:30 PM XXCoder: lol ok
07:32 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_z0X1LdLXA
07:32 PM roycroft: check that out
07:32 PM roycroft: look around 18:12
07:33 PM roycroft: coverage, style, and loft are the score components
07:33 PM XXCoder: covering with water?
07:33 PM roycroft: yes
07:34 PM Tom_L: shows the grain better
07:34 PM roycroft: folks often do that when milling slabs
07:34 PM roycroft: it shows off the grain
07:34 PM XXCoder: interesting
07:34 PM roycroft: i often do something similar in my shop
07:34 PM Tom_L: i'd use spit on small areas to show what a wood color would be
07:34 PM roycroft: when i want to see the grain well before deciding how to lay something out
07:34 PM roycroft: but i use denatured alcohol instead of water so i don't raise the grain much
07:35 PM roycroft: on a freshly cut log the wood is already wet
07:35 PM Tom_L: you gonna sand it anyway
07:35 PM roycroft: spashing water on it won't make it any wetter
07:35 PM Tom_L: yup
07:35 PM roycroft: i like matt's splishy-splashy scores
07:35 PM roycroft: it's a great addition to his milling videos
07:36 PM XXCoder: techinically it IS wetter, it has more h2o on it after splash but I guess wont change anything at all
07:36 PM roycroft: but it doesn't soak in
07:36 PM roycroft: the moisture content is like 29%
07:37 PM roycroft: you splash water on the fresh cut
07:37 PM roycroft: and the moisture content is still like 29%
07:37 PM XXCoder: yeah thats wha I figured :)
07:37 PM Tom_L: grain matters in metal as well
07:37 PM Tom_L: for different reasons
07:37 PM roycroft: yes, it does
07:37 PM roycroft: especially in cast iron
07:37 PM XXCoder: I like that they use bandsaw
07:37 PM roycroft: but in steels and non-ferrous metals as well
07:38 PM XXCoder: some people use chainsaw setup. works, but more kerning cut
07:38 PM roycroft: however
07:38 PM roycroft: and this is the big difference that is so important
07:38 PM roycroft: NOBODY EVER MADE A RIVER TABLE OUT OF CRACKED CAST IRON!
07:38 PM roycroft: :)
07:38 PM Tom_L: i used to saw blocks and make test specimens
07:38 PM Tom_L: round and flat
07:38 PM XXCoder: you got CONTENT! hurry and make cast iron river table
07:39 PM roycroft: i bet i could start a youtube channel and get a million views if i made a cast iron river table
07:41 PM XXCoder: 30:24 or so, I like the look of wood
07:46 PM roycroft: i would like to build a bandsaw mill like matt cremona's
07:46 PM Tom_L: and put it just where?
07:46 PM roycroft: on my back lot
07:47 PM roycroft: it would be pretty annoying, though
07:47 PM roycroft: which is a big reason i haven't built one
07:47 PM roycroft: but perhaps i can buy some acreage somehwere and build a new shop there
07:47 PM roycroft: i am a lot older than matt, though
07:47 PM roycroft: and i would add some hydraulic log handling capability to the mill
07:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: Jackson Pollock would like a word with you https://www.broogly.com/photo/458/splatter-paintings-pollock-style.jpg?type=huge
08:00 PM Tom_L: is he a rep for a paint company?
08:02 PM unterhaus: I saw a video of someone making a Pollock style painting. A lot of paint ended up on the floor
08:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/basquiat-painting-from-1982-sells-for-85-million-at-phillips-11652918631
08:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: sounds like a 2-fer-1
08:04 PM Tom_L: looks like something you'd find on a NY subway
08:05 PM unterhaus: I was just glad my daughter never wanted to paint in that style, we had enough stray paint as it was
08:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://www.abwatson.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Mark-Rothko-02-768x993.jpg maybe something more minimalist?
08:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "it looks like a half painted wall"
08:10 PM unterhaus: I am a fan of monochrome art
08:11 PM unterhaus: I was at a display of monochrome art and leaned up against the wall
08:11 PM unterhaus: a guard came running, "sir, don't touch the artwork"
08:11 PM unterhaus: I'm not convinced it was actually a piece of art
08:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: then it worked
08:12 PM unterhaus: it may have been a performance piece
08:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1277709406/colored-pencil-bowl but sold as a DIY where you paint or color the parts by hand
08:20 PM XXCoder: man I see in least 4 bowls showcased
08:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or is sold with 50 colored pencils and fill in the lines like a coloring book
08:20 PM XXCoder: everyonme and their uncle is making em
08:20 PM XXCoder: color pencils pencil blank lol
08:20 PM XXCoder: "yo I heard you like pencils.."
08:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: beauty is in the eye of the beholder
08:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 3d coloring book for adults
08:23 PM unterhaus: I hate the idea of all those exposed pencil leads in a bowl
08:23 PM XXCoder: its coated by epoxy
08:23 PM XXCoder: so nothing is exposed
08:23 PM XXCoder: and pencil lead dont actually have lead. only clay powder and graphite
08:24 PM unterhaus: I didn't know what to call the center of a pencil
08:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the middle?
08:24 PM XXCoder: its called lead funny enough because it used to be actual lead
08:24 PM XXCoder: banned for long time now
08:24 PM unterhaus: I decided that " lead" was the most common
08:24 PM roycroft: it's called the core
08:24 PM unterhaus: not by anyone I know
08:24 PM roycroft: which is surrounded by the body
08:25 PM roycroft: which is generally made of wood
08:25 PM roycroft: well that's what it's called in the pencil industry
08:25 PM roycroft: which is the only place where folks talk about the components of a pencil on a regular basis
08:25 PM unterhaus: none of us are pencil industry insiders
08:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: get the lead out
08:26 PM roycroft: but all of this is beside the point
08:26 PM roycroft: no pun intended
08:26 PM unterhaus: people are going to start talking about it because of all the crafts made out of ruined pencils
08:26 PM roycroft: what we're talking about is not pencils
08:26 PM roycroft: we're talking about art
08:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the pencil is mightier than the sword
08:26 PM roycroft: and i would say that art is an expression of the artist
08:27 PM roycroft: the artist expresses a thought, an emotion, a point of view in a tangible way and hopefully in a way that others can understand, or at least think about
08:27 PM roycroft: imo
08:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I can see art in something not made by an artist, does my observing the art make the maker an artist?
08:28 PM roycroft: i don't understand what idea, emotion, whatever is being expressed by pouring plastic over a bunch of pencils and carving a hole in the middle
08:28 PM unterhaus: so much of the art world is bs-ing about what makes the piece of art important
08:28 PM Tom_L: that's just not your style of art roy
08:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sounds very utilitarian
08:28 PM roycroft: what makes a piece of art important is the impact it has on people
08:29 PM Tom_L: art is there to strike emotion
08:29 PM unterhaus: that's why you aren't an artist
08:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: life without art would be like living in Florida
08:29 PM Tom_L: it may not be the emotion you wanted
08:29 PM roycroft: i wasn't being facetious when i said the art in spashing a bucket of paint against a wall is in the way it's splashed
08:29 PM unterhaus: I feel like a lot of art is designed to make people like roycroft mad
08:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: do artists demand the proper emotion?
08:30 PM roycroft: i dont know that to be the case, unterhaus
08:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or is it the thought that counts?
08:30 PM unterhaus: been that way since the '60s
08:30 PM roycroft: there is art that i do not like that i still recognize as art
08:30 PM roycroft: river table and plastic pencil bowls are not what i consider art, even though i dislike them :)
08:31 PM unterhaus: I was in the Hirshhorn and there was a piece of kitchen counter in their collection
08:32 PM roycroft: and that might be legit
08:32 PM unterhaus: everyone can have that same piece of art in their kitchen
08:32 PM roycroft: some art has to be explained
08:32 PM roycroft: and i'm willing to have it explained
08:32 PM roycroft: and then i'll assess it with an open mind and decide what i think about it
08:32 PM Tom_L: i'd rather listen to art than view it
08:33 PM roycroft: i don't think anyone has tried to explain the meaning of a plastic pencil bowl
08:33 PM roycroft: that's what lsd is for, tom_l :)
08:33 PM Tom_L: hah
08:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://d16kd6gzalkogb.cloudfront.net/magazine_images/Paul-Cezanne-The-Basket-of-Apples-1885-via-learnodo-newtonic-com.jpg
08:33 PM roycroft: you can look at a pretty painting and hear it
08:33 PM Tom_L: i meant music..
08:33 PM roycroft: i know what you meant
08:33 PM Tom_L: it after all is art
08:34 PM roycroft: but you know by now that i seize on the opportunity to twist words around
08:34 PM Tom_L: nooo...
08:34 PM unterhaus: The Hirshhorn has a sculpture garden with a 1" thick piece of rectangular steel
08:34 PM unterhaus: like the "artist" just went to a steel supply and got a big rectangle of steel
08:34 PM roycroft: double entendre is my middle name
08:35 PM * roycroft is hearing the beginning of "also sprach zarathustra" in his mind
08:37 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: :( i have the sads
08:37 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: my steppers and drivers dont get along
08:38 PM roycroft: send them to their rooms without supper until they learn to behave better
08:38 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: at some speeds the motors make these horrible noises
08:38 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: no missed steps but the entire machine vibrates violently
08:39 PM unterhaus: change to a different microstep
08:39 PM Tom_L: get some geckos :)
08:39 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: i tried that, didnt seem to change much
08:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Jose Ignacio Romero: which drivers?
08:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have a few very noisy drivers
08:39 PM * roycroft was wondering if they were alibaba's finest
08:39 PM unterhaus: you may have to stiffen up the machine, resonance is a known problem
08:39 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: DM542Ts, i had used them in the past without this much problem
08:40 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: i think they just dont like these motors
08:40 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: i'll try a gecko later and see if it likes the motor better, i only have one i can borrow... if it works wonderfully i guess that is the solution
08:41 PM Tom_L: i use the 203v
08:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAIRBG20wWo there are even worse
08:41 PM Tom_L: be sure to set the step/space timing for it
08:42 PM Tom_L: in the config
08:43 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: i should find a way to measure the motor inductance
08:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: how are you recovering? Is all your blood staying inside where it should be?
08:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Jose Ignacio Romero: https://www.linearmotiontips.com/what-is-stepper-motor-resonance-and-how-can-it-be-avoided/
08:56 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: the original driver was a L297/298 pair and it didnt make such horrible noises, running at 48 volts too
08:58 PM Tom_L: why did you change them?
08:59 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: because i replaced the control box, and one of them was blown
09:00 PM Tom_L: k
09:02 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: i figured it wasnt hard to do better than the l297/8
09:02 PM Tom_L: imo the 203v are damn hard to beat
09:04 PM Tom_L: i'm running mine at 48v but i think they're good to 80v
09:04 PM Tom_L: 7A?
09:14 PM Rab: JoseIgnacioRomer, I thought I had blown a L297/L298 driver, but it turned out to be the onboard optocoupler: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/fcdriver/
09:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/tb6600/s?k=tb6600 noisy as hell
09:15 PM XXCoder: not surpised. its quite cheap driver
09:20 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: trying to figure out what current these drivers are set at
09:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have a few crappy stepper drives that I just can't seem to get rid of
09:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i can't find a suitable project for them
09:21 PM beef[m]: play around with them
09:21 PM beef[m]: a lot of the chinese stepper drives are running an STM32 clone (GD32 something or other)
09:21 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight[m]: CMM with camera?
09:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I don't even know how I ended up with them
09:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tb6500 and tb6600, must have come with some router kits
09:25 PM XXCoder: in least its not tb6550
09:25 PM XXCoder: erm 6560
09:25 PM XXCoder: that one sucks
09:29 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: exactly 3 amps peak
09:30 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: that took way more reverse engineering than it should
09:38 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: hah that did it, lowering the peak amps got rid of the horrible vibrations
09:39 PM * roycroft just bought gecko drives and mesa boards because he doesn't like worrying about things or fiddling with things
09:39 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: it was set to 3 RMS
09:41 PM roycroft: my vinyl cutter (the second one) arrived a short time ago
09:41 PM roycroft: it appears to be packed as from the factory
09:41 PM roycroft: and there are no missing parts this time
09:45 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: yep lowering the current makes it about as loud as it was originally with the l297
09:45 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: though it really doesnt like goint at 8IPM
09:54 PM Tom_L: what's max feed on your cnc?
09:57 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: 100ipm rapids
09:58 PM roycroft: and there is a missing part after all
09:58 PM roycroft: an m3 knurled thumb nut that's pretty important
10:00 PM roycroft: it is for holding the cutter in place
10:00 PM roycroft: i can test the machine with a regular m3 nut but that is awkward at best
10:08 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: I guess 80RPM is the natural resonance frequency
10:22 PM unterhaus: I liked that about aerotech drives, you could put in a notch filter
10:22 PM unterhaus: they should be pretty good for $2000 an axis though
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