#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 11 2023

07:15 AM JT-Cave: rooster crowed, time for the hens to come out
07:44 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The speed rating on tool holders has to do with balance. The tool holders are balanced to an allowable rotor unbalance (Uper in gmm). Most spindles have an allowable maximum balance grade (G, usually 2.5 or better for high speed spindles). Since Uper = 9549Gmass/rpm, it can be seen that a tool holder rated for higher rpm will have lower allowable unbalance for a given G rating. As to what will happen if you run a tool holder
07:44 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: rated for 12k in as 24k spindle, the answer is that your bearings will get trashed. It is generally expected that tool holders operating greater than 12k should be balanced with the tool in the holder.
07:47 AM travis_farmer[m]: so regardless of the rating, if i run it under the max rpm, it will be the best for the longevity of the spindle.
07:47 AM travis_farmer[m]: not sure if i need 24Krpm anyway, when 12Krpm will likely do most jobs.
07:48 AM travis_farmer[m]: i got the spindle for the ATC, not actually for the 24Krpm ability
07:56 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: If you are using you machine as a router, I would expect you to be using 24K almost all the time. Cutting things like wood require high rpm unless you are running large diameter tools. Running at a lower rpm is just wasting time and surface finish.
07:57 AM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm..
07:58 AM jpa-: yeah, i find i use 15-24 kRPM in wood most of the time, lower speeds for metals
08:00 AM travis_farmer[m]: the tool holder i bought is 20Krpm, so that will be fine. not sure what speed the one that came with it will run at. i was just noticing that lower RPM tool holders were more common, and far cheaper to buy.
08:00 AM jpa-: often you can hear the imbalance if it gets significant
08:01 AM travis_farmer[m]: kinda wish the tool table had an option for maximum rpm... that way, if set, it would restrict the spindle speed. mainly for the larger cutters.
08:02 AM jpa-: you could separate by numeric value.. <50 small tools >50 large tools or similar
08:02 AM travis_farmer[m]: true, that would work
08:03 AM travis_farmer[m]: but there is still no limit to restrict the spindle speed, in case i forget, or fail to setup post-processing correctly
08:04 AM jpa-: hal compare, mux and limit?
08:04 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You could do it with a HAL component. Just feed in the tool diameter value and have a limit.
08:04 AM jpa-: ah, that would work too
08:04 AM travis_farmer[m]: hmm, that could work
08:05 AM jpa-: also a good idea to inhibit spindle entirely when using probe :)
08:05 AM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, very good idea
08:06 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have the same issue with my spindle speeder. It has a max input rpm of 4k for a 20k output. I just fixed it as tool #20 and have the rpm limited for that tool only.
08:08 AM travis_farmer[m]: tool tables have many axis... any way to read in an axis tool offset, say for axis W, and send that value to a hal component?
08:10 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: halui.tool.length-offset.[axis] works. Not sure if it loads unused axis but it should.
08:10 AM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm, will have to try that
08:24 AM satiowadahc[m]: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Ubuntu-RT-Kernel-GA-Coming
08:24 AM satiowadahc[m]: huh this is neat.
08:24 AM satiowadahc[m]: uh is the bot functioning? seems my messages are being duplicated....
08:25 AM travis_farmer[m]: that is only on Discord. TurBoss goffed ;-)
08:25 AM travis_farmer[m]: goofed
08:29 AM satiowadahc[m]: Intersting... maybe time to try and find my IRC password again...
08:36 AM pere: Is <URL: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/2253 > publishing a good default set of HAL values by default?
08:36 AM travis_farmer[m]: i can't get "halui.tool.length-offset.w" to feed in (or even Z for that matter), but i can do tool diameter, so maybe i can work with "halui.tool.diameter" and see if i can scale the spindle speed based on diameter...
09:24 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: halui.tool.length_offset.z works for me. Note the "_" and not "-". It is a float though so the comp pin needs to match.
09:27 AM travis_farmer[m]: i was viewing in HAL Meter. tool number updated with a tool change, tool diameter updated, but the length offset for x, y, z, and w always showed 0
09:29 AM travis_farmer[m]: the tool table line is "T1 P1 W15000.0 D2.5 ;"
09:30 AM * ZincBoy[CAON][m] uploaded an image: (2606KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/aVAAyccdPJygFuvSfKZucfDC/image.png >
09:30 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: This is what I designed for my old NM145 mill: It used a spur gear on a nema23 stepper to rotate the carousel. It worked fine but you couldn't load all of the tools on one side, you had to spread them out. The ring gear in the hub was 3d printed.
09:37 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:37 AM JT-Shop: chores done... time to go to work for a bit
09:37 AM travis_farmer[m]: suppose 15000.0 is too large a number? i could use "15.0" and multiply by 1000
09:46 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I think it would apply the offset value in the A position to the A axis when you do G43. Not likely what you want.
09:46 AM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, likely not
09:55 AM travis_farmer[m]: that carousel you designed, Zinc, looks quite interesting, though a bit more complicated than i was thinking (maybe more complicated...)
09:57 AM He[m]1: Huh looks like the toolholders on that carrousel swivel
09:58 AM travis_farmer[m]: they do
09:58 AM He[m]1: is that for one of those random position toolchangers with an extra arm?
10:28 AM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: installed your new gcode version. will try it now
10:28 AM roycroft: do any of you with cnc routers have a means of holding parts verticaly to route into the ends of them?
10:34 AM travis_farmer[m]: i have seen pictures, roycroft. you make the Y axis slides go beyond the front a bit, and clamp the vertical parts to the front face, and the extended slides allow you to route the edge.
10:37 AM roycroft: yeah, that's one way it's done
10:37 AM roycroft: some folks have a cutout in the middle of the table where they clamp the parts
10:37 AM roycroft: it's something i might find really useful, but it also complicates my design quite a bit
10:38 AM roycroft: keep in mind that my cnc router will be built on top of a conventional router table, so i'll have a spindle below and a spindle above
10:38 AM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i thought it would be usefull, but my table design would not allow it
10:38 AM roycroft: and i think i may have just come up with a cunning plan
10:40 AM roycroft: instead of mounting the part to stick down below the table and have the overhead router cut the features, what if i mounted the part on the spindle mount of the overhead cnc router and used the underside spindle to do the machining
10:40 AM roycroft: moving the part over the spindle instead of the other way
10:41 AM * travis_farmer[m] has some fish fillets in the oven, cooking. Mmmmm....
10:41 AM travis_farmer[m]: sounds complicated, roycroft
10:41 AM roycroft: it would be an interesting challenge
10:42 AM travis_farmer[m]: interesting, but would take some extra special configuration i think
10:42 AM roycroft: making a rigid mounting mechanism would be the difficult part
10:42 AM roycroft: well
10:43 AM roycroft: when you're using a cnc mill and doing 2d milling, the spindle is fixed and the part moves
10:43 AM roycroft: this would be the same thing, essentially
10:44 AM travis_farmer[m]: all your axis would have to be reverse orientation, i think. because it is upsidedown
10:44 AM roycroft: sure
10:44 AM roycroft: but that should be trivial to do
10:45 AM roycroft: and as far as the mount, it could be on the side of the overhead spindle, perpendicular to the x axis
10:45 AM roycroft: so there could be a mounting plate permanently affixed to the z, and the spindle would not have to be swapped on and off to do this
10:46 AM roycroft: the trick would be mounting the part rigidly enough
10:46 AM roycroft: it would not be able to bear down on the spoil board - it would have to be held 1mm or so above it, so that it could move about
10:46 AM * roycroft will have to ponder this possibility
10:47 AM roycroft: at first thought, fixturing seems to me to be the biggest challenge
10:48 AM roycroft: but if i did this, given sufficient ceiling height, i could route into the end of an 8' long board this way, which can't be done when fixturing it from underneath the table
10:49 AM roycroft: a fast and easy way to index the part to the underside spindle might be the second biggest challenge
10:49 AM roycroft: and the cutter height would have to be adjusted manually, of course, but that's ok
10:50 AM travis_farmer[m]: you could also put the spindle on a hinge with locating pins at vertical and horizontal, and just lift the part up a bit on the spoilboard
10:51 AM travis_farmer[m]: then Z becomes Y, and Y becomes Z in the config
10:51 AM roycroft: yes, that could be an option
10:51 AM roycroft: i've thought about getting a pantorouter, but they are expensive and really not flexible enough for what i want to do
10:52 AM roycroft: but i do like that the parts are mounted horizontally on a pantorouter
10:52 AM roycroft: i just can't see investing $2k in one when i'll have a cnc router that can do so much more
10:53 AM roycroft: a horizontal spindle is an interesting idea
10:53 AM travis_farmer[m]: depending on how you build the spindle mount, my idea could be cheaper, and achieve a pantorouter
10:54 AM roycroft: i'd need more z height, so that i could raise the part off the spoilboard high enough for the spindle to reach the bottom of it
10:54 AM roycroft: i already have my linear rails for the z, but they weren't that expensive
10:54 AM roycroft: i'm concerned, though, that if i raise the gantry enough for that extra z height i might lose a lot of rigidity
10:55 AM roycroft: but there may be a way to work around that
10:56 AM roycroft: if i were to mount a spindle horizontally i'd prefer to mount it below the x axis extrusion, so i can balance it in the middle of the gantry
10:56 AM * travis_farmer[m] has a little less than a minute before lunch is ready :-)
10:56 AM travis_farmer[m]: true
10:56 AM roycroft: i think if i just stuck it on the front of the extrusion the center of balance would be too far forward - even a 3hp spindle is pretty heavy
10:57 AM travis_farmer[m]: oven just beeped, BBL
10:58 AM roguish[m]: roycroft: always think stiffness and deflection..... everything flexes. all a matter of how much.
11:02 AM roycroft: yes
11:03 AM roycroft: that is exactly like the legal problem i'm dealing with right now
11:03 AM roycroft: and it's so hard to get people to understand it
11:03 AM roycroft: i'm dealing with an action that involves risk to the non-profit for whom i'm a board officer
11:03 AM roguish[m]: who was that said 'hang the lawyers first.' ???
11:04 AM roycroft: people are telling me my job is to avoid any risk to the organization
11:04 AM roycroft: and they don't get that risk is not binary
11:04 AM roycroft: my job is risk mitigation, not risk elimination
11:04 AM roycroft: and my job when building a cnc router is mitigating flex, not eliminating it
11:05 AM roycroft: that analogy might seem a bit odd
11:05 AM roycroft: i deal with binary thought all the time, and it drives me up a wall
11:06 AM roguish[m]: I like the idea of putting a slot in the table. could have a drop in/out table top section. and some added stiffeners when necessary
11:06 AM roycroft: i like it too, but it causes some complications for me, and it also limits the length of the part that i am machining
11:07 AM roycroft: i'm not sure that the length restriction would be that important for what i'm planning on doing
11:13 AM * travis_farmer[m] loves driving people up a wall ;-)
11:25 AM unterhausen: someone on the sheldon list got a quote for a 127 tooth gear and it was almost $4k USD
11:25 AM unterhausen: I'm reinforced in my idea that a lcnc setup for electronic gearing is the way to go
11:26 AM unterhausen: stock gearing is just a timing belt, if you want metric everything goes through a number of gears
11:32 AM travis_farmer[m]: Hmmm, i suppose i need to go out to my shop and at least pretend to be doing something. ;-) i do have to confirm sensor wiring pinout of my spindle, actually. and fix the Y-axis homing issue as well.
11:37 AM Tom_L: ZincBoy[CAON][m], on tool holders.. at what point do they stop using collets and go to heatshrink?
11:37 AM Tom_L: point being rpm
11:38 AM Tom_L: there comes a point that multiple pieces just won't balance well enough
11:38 AM roycroft: those 127 tooth gears go missing a lot
11:38 AM roycroft: and then people figure out that they need to cut a metric thread
11:39 AM roycroft: sheldon users are fanatical about using original parts
11:43 AM roycroft: what would be really cool is a right angle spindle, but making on that has any precision would certainly be challenging and expensive, i should think
12:11 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Once you go above 10k shrink fit are a good idea. I have some shrink fit holders I picked up at auction that have setscrews to adjust the balance in multiple planes.
12:11 PM Tom_L: holder case study: https://www.haimer-usa.com/news/blog/blog-articles-pages/2017/71917-shrinking-costs.html
12:13 PM Tom_L: better tool life as a result
12:20 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: There are a couple of drawbacks to shrink fit holders (other than the cost). One is the decreased damping. The holders are lighter and can be very stiff but you can run into increased vibration issues. The other issue is the minimum gauge length is greater than an good endmill holder or collet holder. I get better results on my machine with sk16 collet holders than the Haimer shrink fit holders for roughing and heavy milling.
12:20 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: It is because of the greater gauge length of the shrink fit holders. Hydraulic chucks are also nice but I don't find much difference between them and the sk16 ones.
01:10 PM travis_farmer[m4: my spindle is running via LCNC command! not ModBus yet, but direct analog. will work on the ModBus tomorrow, as i am running the spindle break-in procedure at the moment.
01:13 PM travis_farmer[m4: the sensor connector on the spindle is wrong to the diagram they gave me, so i will have to trace out those pins at some point too
01:31 PM travis_farmer[m]: completed my spindle break-in just 5 minutes or so after the diesel in the heater sucked dry (forgot to get fuel and fill it), so i will have to prime it next filling. but it was great to hear the spindle running much quieter than my last spindle (with the bad bearings).
01:34 PM CloudEvil: :)
01:48 PM travis_farmer[m]: as for the sensor connector diagram... apparently the pinout diagram on the eBay ad happens to be correct... DOH!! i just got done contacting the seller for the correct diagram...
01:52 PM unterhausen: roycroft, just make your z axis like a deckel so you can mount your spindle either horizontally or vertically
01:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: reminds me of that guy a few years ago in here that asked about which CNC router to buy, and return every 12 to 24 hours to ask a fresh set of people the same questions
01:56 PM travis_farmer[m]: was that me, Capt? ;-)
01:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: did anyone ask you how you ever make it through the cereal aisle at the grocery store? If yes then maybe it was
01:57 PM unterhausen: I would do that, except I would ask where to put the router
01:58 PM travis_farmer[m]: i guess it wasn't :-)
01:59 PM unterhausen: I still like the idea of putting it on the tablesaw table, but I'm not sure where I would put all that junk that's on it
01:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this guy either had real memory problems or was a very good troll
02:00 PM unterhausen: I ask my repetitive questions far enough apart that you don't remember them
02:00 PM travis_farmer[m]: lol
02:04 PM unterhausen: like I just remembered why I didn't install graphical linux for windows
02:04 PM unterhausen: nvidia charges $$ for drivers
02:05 PM unterhausen: I should get an amd card
02:15 PM unterhausen: cheap amd card on the way
02:15 PM travis_farmer[m]: should have got a MSI ;-)
02:16 PM unterhausen: I forget which brand the card was already
02:16 PM unterhausen: just needed a amd chipset so I didn't have to pay so much for the drivers
02:17 PM travis_farmer[m]: i think i have an old ISA VGA card kicking around... could have sold it to you real cheap ;-)
02:19 PM unterhausen: it needs virtualization support, so I don't think that would work
02:19 PM travis_farmer[m]: lol
02:19 PM unterhausen: I think I'm not alone in having a stack of obsolete video cards
02:20 PM unterhausen: the problem with most of them is they won't drive my monitor
02:20 PM travis_farmer[m]: i think i even have an I386 CPU somewhere ;-)
02:20 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, likely not
02:21 PM unterhausen: I have a 68000 and a 68008 brand new in my ic box
02:21 PM unterhausen: or was it a 68016?
02:22 PM unterhausen: I probably have a 386, even know where to find it
02:22 PM travis_farmer[m]: i have a bunch of ATmega328PU... ;-)
02:23 PM unterhausen: of course, I threw out the most valuable computer I had, a 6502 in the original tinfoil
02:25 PM travis_farmer[m]: pretty sure i have an abacus if i look for it. oldest computer i have ;-) (just being funny)
02:25 PM unterhausen: huh, someone made a reproduction board for that computer
02:26 PM unterhausen: I am never going to understand computer collectors
02:26 PM travis_farmer[m]: lol
02:26 PM unterhausen: I'm an accidental collector
02:27 PM travis_farmer[m]: i am a IC horder... if i need one, and china sells a set of 100, i will buy 100, just in case i ever need another one.
02:29 PM unterhausen: yeah, that's a pain
02:29 PM unterhausen: at least I still have the manual for that computer, last sale was $100 on ebay
02:30 PM unterhausen: If I get that much, I might have actually made money
02:31 PM unterhausen: with inflation from 1984, it cost me $15
02:39 PM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm, too much money to build, but this tool changer would be fun to build! https://www.afm.es/en/tool-magazines-alberdi3
02:43 PM XXCoder: lol yeah
02:43 PM XXCoder: reminds me of a61 tools closets
02:43 PM XXCoder: d500 also
02:45 PM travis_farmer[m]: looks easy enough to build too. just a gantry router table, up on it's side... (must resist the urge...) ;-)
02:46 PM unterhausen: that company is in a really nice place, as long as you don't look at the quarry in the back yard
02:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1-YeqGynlw
02:47 PM unterhausen: we just got rid of all of our lego technic too
02:48 PM travis_farmer[m]: personally, i would be happy with a 10 - 15 tool magazine, but that doesn't mean i can't dream big ;-)
02:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LttotgOSXtc LCNC can never do this since it can't go to 11
02:50 PM roycroft: that might be fun, but practically speaking, how many jobs will ever need 240 different tools?
02:50 PM travis_farmer[m]: i would create a job, just for it ;-)
02:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nah it's so yah don't have to change tools manually
02:51 PM roycroft: it seems to me that part of what makes cnc machining an improvement over manuall machining is that one can often accomplish the same thing with fewer tooling changes when using cnc vs. manual
02:52 PM travis_farmer[m]: go ahead, take all the fun out of it ;-)
02:53 PM roycroft: i'm not discounting the fun factor
02:53 PM roycroft: i personally would not be able to cost justify it
02:53 PM roycroft: there are things that i consider a lot more fun that cost a lot less money
02:54 PM roycroft: but different strokes for different folks
02:54 PM XXCoder: cnc is amazing on batches also
02:54 PM XXCoder: 100 parts manual? yeah pay me more to do that
02:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how do shops make 100 parts just slightly different from each other?
02:56 PM roycroft: by having monkeys make them
02:57 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], just use the hammer in different spots
02:58 PM XXCoder: do randon sharpie mark on every part
02:58 PM Tom_L: in a case like that the part should be table driven
02:59 PM XXCoder: tom yeah some machines ahve serial ability where it increases number by 1 each time program is run
03:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some people say that CNC woodwork will never replace hand made since it can't reproduce the errors that people make by hand
03:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and it's the little errors that makes them more valuable
03:04 PM roycroft: cnc woodwork cannot replace hand work because it can't cost effectively accurately reproduce all hand tooling operations
03:05 PM roycroft: cnc operations can be programmed to introduce random deviations similar to what hand woodwork does
03:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: always an excuse
03:06 PM roycroft: i.e. sophisticated cnc machines could mimic hand tooling so well it would be all but impossible to tell the difference
03:06 PM roycroft: but at what cost?
03:06 PM roycroft: and there are things it just can't do at all right now that would be very difficult to program
03:06 PM roycroft: such as hand planing and scraping
03:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: depends on who is building it
03:07 PM roycroft: i think it would be extremely difficult to program a cnc robot to do card scraping that would yield the same results as a craftsperson doing it by hand
03:07 PM unterhausen: I wish it was easier to put randomness in cnc. I guess I just dont' run the right software
03:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: have you tried using more worn out equipment?
03:07 PM roycroft: it needs to be in your vector files, not in your gcode
03:08 PM travis_farmer[m]: if you want randomness, run unshielded VFD wire next to unshielded stepper driver wires ;-)
03:08 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The 240 (and bigger) tool magazines are usually for machines with pallet changers or that are running high mix jobs. The other use case is when you have in-line tool break and wear detection. You will have multiples of a given tool in the magazine and automatically swap out as they break/wear/time out. For lights-out operation they are great. I know I am limited with a 20pos tool changer. I think about 50 would be a happy
03:08 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: amount that would let me keep a set of aluminum and steel tools ready to go.
03:08 PM unterhausen: I feel like that might offer the wrong kind of randomness
03:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wooden floors and beams vs steel or concrete
03:09 PM roycroft: lube your cnc machine with shots of tequila
03:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you need the floors to bounce and sway
03:09 PM roycroft: you'll get plenty of randomness there
03:09 PM roycroft: that makes sense, zincboy
03:10 PM roycroft: and is outwith the context of any work i'll ever be doing :)
03:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how much is a bottle of tequila? contradictions
03:10 PM roycroft: how much is not having a bottle of tequila?
03:10 PM roycroft: in some circumstances, not having one could be very expensive
03:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'll let you argue with yourself
03:11 PM roycroft: i can't
03:11 PM roycroft: because i don't have a bottle of tequila handy
03:11 PM unterhausen: I don't go to liquor stores after I saw that movie where the guy was wrongly accused of robbing it and taking prisoners
03:11 PM roguish[m]: any of you guys know how to braze?
03:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so woodwork is one of those areas where it can and can't be done by automation
03:11 PM unterhausen: I do a lot of brazing
03:11 PM roycroft: it all depends
03:12 PM roycroft: all of ikea can be automated
03:12 PM unterhausen: just found some nickel silver flux I really like
03:12 PM roycroft: which is why ikea try to automate their customers
03:12 PM XXCoder: if I go to liquor store, im equally likely planning to rob it to buy alchol from it
03:12 PM roycroft: it's just how they are
03:12 PM XXCoder: *as to
03:12 PM roycroft: i would not be surprised of the swedish meatballs at ikea were made by a robot
03:12 PM roguish[m]: how much clearance, or what kinda fit, for a sleave on a .35" shaft?
03:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish: do you have a brazing setup already?
03:12 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Plus it would cost around 250k to load one of those magazines up with holders and tools. A little out of the normal budget 🙂
03:12 PM * roycroft has some brazing
03:12 PM unterhausen: we went to a liquor store in north carolina looking for beer. Wrong place
03:13 PM roycroft: do you still have to buy beer at a liquor store in pennsylvania?
03:13 PM unterhausen: the manager tried to get us to buy gin instead
03:13 PM unterhausen: no, but the rules to buy beer at the grocery store are convoluted
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: well gin is like beer only different
03:14 PM roycroft: oh, well at least some improvements have been made
03:14 PM unterhausen: not every grocery store got a license, but most did
03:14 PM roycroft: the last time i was there one had to go to a liquor store for beer and wine
03:14 PM unterhausen: I don't think so, it was always bars and beer distributors
03:14 PM roycroft: and iirc the rules for buying it at the liquor store were pretty convoluted as well
03:14 PM unterhausen: wine is with liquor
03:14 PM unterhausen: now you can buy wine in groceries
03:14 PM roycroft: well it wasn't for sale at grocery stores
03:15 PM roycroft: it was some kind of special stores
03:15 PM roycroft: i haven't been there since the '70s
03:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so it's like Canada?
03:15 PM roycroft: i don't know
03:15 PM roycroft: how many bottles are in a case of beer in pennsylvania?
03:15 PM roycroft: in canada it's 12
03:15 PM unterhausen: I keep hoping they'll just open it up like everywhere else
03:15 PM roycroft: in most of the us it's 24
03:16 PM unterhausen: you still have to go to a beer distributor to buy more than 15 beers
03:16 PM unterhausen: cases there are 24 beers
03:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: is weed legal there yet?
03:17 PM unterhausen: beer companies probably wish they didn't have to package 15 beers
03:17 PM unterhausen: medicinal weed has been legal for a number of years
03:18 PM unterhausen: not sure how hard it is to get, I think it's trivial. there are a number of dispensaries in town
03:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: how about unlicensed carry of firearms?
03:18 PM unterhausen: that's pretty wild west, I think
03:19 PM unterhausen: unless they want to arrest you for it
03:20 PM unterhausen: open carry legal except in philly. Concealed requires a license from the sheriff
03:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Pennsylvania has lots of interesting laws
03:23 PM roguish[m]: little brazing advice, please
03:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "how much clearance, or what kinda fit, for a sleave on a .35" shaft?"
03:24 PM unterhausen: don't stick your head in the fumes
03:24 PM roguish[m]: yeah?
03:24 PM unterhausen: did cap'n ask your question?
03:25 PM roguish[m]: I won't be brazing. a neighbor will. I just need to prep the parts
03:25 PM Tom_L: clean them and use flux
03:25 PM Tom_L: i used to use the rods that had flux around them
03:25 PM unterhausen: what materials?
03:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you want braze a sleeve with a 0.35" shaft inside?
03:25 PM roguish[m]: steel
03:25 PM roguish[m]: CaptHindsight: yes
03:26 PM roguish[m]: sleeve to shaft
03:26 PM unterhausen: I am not sure about numbers, but it should be a sliding fit, not too tight
03:26 PM Tom_L: make sure you heat the shaft first
03:27 PM Tom_L: you could get the sleeve too hot
03:27 PM unterhausen: it can be a little loose, but you probably don't want it to be able to rock on the shaft
03:27 PM roguish[m]: the material has to wick inbetween the parts , right?
03:27 PM unterhausen: I assume the neighbor knows how to control the heat
03:27 PM Tom_L: should yes
03:28 PM Tom_L: depending what it is, i've drilled holes in said sleeve and filled them from the side as well as the 'ring'
03:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XLEAAOSwoM5brZrP/s-l1600.jpg this type of sleeve?
03:28 PM unterhausen: are you using silver or bronze
03:28 PM roguish[m]: ok. that's what i needed to know for sure. thanks all
03:29 PM roguish[m]: probably bronze, but I don't know for sure
03:29 PM unterhausen: you might want a bit more clearance then
03:29 PM roguish[m]: oooo, just finished my thread milling. external m28x1.5
03:29 PM unterhausen: for a lot of applications, you don't need full penetration
03:30 PM roguish[m]: shit. it's fucked up.
03:30 PM Tom_L: thread milling is kinda fun
03:30 PM roguish[m]: it's a practice part.
03:30 PM Tom_L: what did you do to it?
03:31 PM roguish[m]: CAM?
03:31 PM roguish[m]: HSMexpress
03:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Brass_cup/Brass_Cups2.jpg
03:32 PM roguish[m]: it's an SCT tool. now I'll try there code generation.........
03:32 PM Tom_L: i did those as a random exercise
03:32 PM Tom_L: not particular size just make it fit
03:33 PM Tom_L: little math later and there you have it
03:35 PM Tom_L: roguish[m], you know jt wrote a thread utility?
03:35 PM Tom_L: same time i did the macro for my cad cam
03:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: I use math too!
03:36 PM travis_farmer[m]: ihave never used math! that is the language of the devil... ;-) (kidding)
03:37 PM XXCoder: 1+1=3
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.statesupply.com/bell-and-gossett/pump/part/shaft-and-sleeve/shaft
03:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: my favorite https://www.statesupply.com/bg1567s
03:53 PM * JT-Woodshop wonders if digital angle gauges are very accurate for setting the table saw blade
03:54 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: To 0.05 degree, yes.
03:54 PM JT-Woodshop: which one?
03:54 PM JT-Woodshop: I see a lot of bad reviews on many of them
03:54 PM XXCoder: I wonder if it is due to them not adjusting to zero
03:55 PM XXCoder: it should be real easy, just rotate and adjust both surface and device
03:55 PM XXCoder: till it reads zero all way around
03:56 PM JT-Woodshop: no way to know if reviews are written by a competent person or by someone that should not play with sharp things
03:57 PM XXCoder: yeah one of issues
03:59 PM XXCoder: you probably could filter some of em, like if device is adjustable, "mine is always 4 degrees off!" might not have adjusted it correctly
03:59 PM XXCoder: "it always crashes and flashes each time I try to use it" might be a real issue
03:59 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have one of these: https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/67350-tilt-box-ii-digital-inclinometer-for-tool-setting?item=88N9050
04:01 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: It works great. Just put it on the table, press the zero button, and then put it on the blade set the blade angle. I can set the angle better than I can measure with a protractor with this.
04:01 PM XXCoder: nice
04:01 PM JT-Woodshop: I've not seen that one, thanks
04:01 PM XXCoder: I guess table surface matters more on this case
04:01 PM JT-Woodshop: magnets on both sides? I have a left tilt saw
04:02 PM XXCoder: picture says yes but could be wrong
04:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: It has magnets on both sides, yes.
04:02 PM JT-Woodshop: yup, that's why I asked
04:02 PM JT-Woodshop: thanks
04:02 PM XXCoder: I want to get one lol but dont need it
04:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Also on the bottom. The only downside is that it takes a 9V battery and they do go dead after a year or so.
04:03 PM XXCoder: not very expensive
04:03 PM XXCoder: its definitely something that can be used to make table close to flat also
04:03 PM JT-Woodshop: $39 when you leave the Canada store...
04:03 PM XXCoder: just adjust half table then set zero again, then rotate
04:04 PM JT-Woodshop: hmm what do I need from them for $0.50 to get free shipping?
04:04 PM XXCoder: pecils
04:04 PM XXCoder: *pencils.
04:05 PM XXCoder: uh they might have a error with depth stops lol $0.00
04:06 PM XXCoder: anyway pencil is 70 cent, and theres bunch of 1 usd ones
04:09 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I also have one of these: https://www.leveldevelopments.com/products/inclinometers/inclinometer-sensors/dual-axis-inclinometer-sensors/solar-2-series/solar-2-30-2-rs232-dual-axis-inclinometer-30-rs232-interface-with-temperature-compensation/ If you want something more accurate. It is slightly inconvenient though 🙂
04:10 PM JT-Woodshop: glue can make up a bit of inaccuracy
04:10 PM XXCoder: +- 30 degrees?
04:10 PM XXCoder: oh thats range not tol nm
04:11 PM JT-Woodshop: I need to replace the shop fox 6" wood clamp with a good one so getting a Dubuque wooden handscrew
04:12 PM XXCoder: ouch lol https://www.reddit.com/r/Machinists/comments/109hddn/nice_way_to_start_the_week/
04:14 PM * JT-Woodshop goes to another pc to order
04:16 PM unterhaus_: xx, I clicked on your link and then was afraid it was going to be about the guy that got sucked into their machining center
04:16 PM XXCoder: yeah that one sucks, I dont share horrible ones :(
04:17 PM unterhaus_: JT I have the not so good Wixy and it seems to work fine. People don't like it because it eats batteries
04:18 PM unterhaus_: they guy that posted that story seemed like he needed help, which I can imagine
04:18 PM XXCoder: yeah.
04:20 PM XXCoder: closest thing to dangerous thing that ever happened to me is that a61 convey door was broken, it could be opened while running.
04:20 PM XXCoder: I used ziploc to make sure it stays closed, and added paper to door to warn not to touch it unless its being fixed
04:21 PM XXCoder: and put trash can on front. it stayed for 2 days for parts to arrive and get fixed
04:21 PM XXCoder: if you entered and it moved into you, it will not error out, because its very heavy
04:22 PM XXCoder: pallet mover is very strong and heavy after all
04:26 PM unterhaus_: our Moore had the door open while running usually. Unless we were using coolant
04:26 PM unterhaus_: 60000 rpm and no door, what could go wrong?
04:26 PM unterhaus_: interlock itself was amateur hour
04:28 PM XXCoder: all machines at shop I worked at had keys to bypass door lock, for setups and such. we are expected to know how to be safe around machines
04:28 PM XXCoder: there was only one maim event across all 5 years I worked there, and it was by careless hand stick down into coolant tank which has moving belts
04:28 PM XXCoder: it wasnt inside machine enclosure
04:32 PM XXCoder: guy still has all fingers, it was belt blade that scraped into palm and he lost some tendons and nerve connections
04:32 PM XXCoder: so some fingers dont work
04:32 PM XXCoder: he moved to QA before getting laid off in covid period
04:45 PM JT-Woodshop: unterhaus_, the wixy on my delta planer is ok but yep I read that on their angle thingy
04:52 PM _unreal_: Ok just stated milling my spacer block for the heat sink for the OPI5
04:53 PM roycroft: i just replaced my wixey angle gauge a week or so ago
04:53 PM roycroft: my old wixey died after 20 or so years
04:53 PM roycroft: i have wixey height gauges on my router table, thicknesser, and drum sander
04:53 PM roycroft: oh, and on my drill press as well
04:53 PM roycroft: none of them eat batteries
04:55 PM * roycroft has gotten to know barry wixey fairly well over the years
04:56 PM roycroft: i've pondered his table saw gauge, but i just don't know if it's worth it
04:56 PM roycroft: not the cost
04:57 PM * JT-Woodshop likes the powermatic height gauge better than the wixey
04:57 PM roycroft: but it seems it would be rather fiddly to mount and keep from damaging
04:57 PM roycroft: i've not ever seen the powermatic
04:57 PM roycroft: i assume it's made specifically for their thicknessers
04:57 PM JT-Woodshop: yup
04:57 PM roycroft: since i have a grizzly it probably would not work for me
04:58 PM JT-Woodshop: bolt on 0.0005 resolution
04:58 PM JT-Woodshop: hmm Eric Johnson... Clifts of Dover
04:58 PM JT-Woodshop: my favorite
04:58 PM roycroft: i should think there's enough machine vibration to make the display jump all over the place if it reads in tenths
04:59 PM XXCoder: wouldnt .0005 degree be able to detect person walking around while its measuring?
04:59 PM XXCoder: purely by noise and air movement
04:59 PM roycroft: not degree, distance, in this case
04:59 PM XXCoder: ah ok
04:59 PM roycroft: on the thicknesser it's a height gauge
05:00 PM roycroft: barry told me the reason the head for his thicknesser gauge has a resolution of 0.005" and not 0.001" is because when he sold it with 0.001" most of his customers complained about the display jumping around constantly - it would never settle down once the machine was powerd up, no matter what the machine
05:01 PM roycroft: and honestly, 0.005" is fine for thicknessing wood
05:01 PM _unreal_: AND...... mind numbing
05:01 PM XXCoder: honestly its always best to be above noise ceiling
05:01 PM roycroft: it needs to be hand planed, scraped, or sanded after it comes out of the thicknesser anyway
05:01 PM roycroft: and you're going to remove a few thousandths then
05:01 PM _unreal_: of all the things to TOOL aluminum I think is my most "hated do to noise.
05:01 PM roycroft: so you need to thickness a bit over anyway
05:03 PM JT-Woodshop: I can understand the wixey jumping around with a spring loaded connection, the powermatic is like a dro scale
05:03 PM roycroft: ok
05:04 PM * JT-Woodshop has to run the whirlpool assembly machine tomorrow... pretty expensive operator
05:05 PM Tom_L: those parts should be sold as souvenirs
05:05 PM JT-Woodshop: yup
05:06 PM Tom_L: is that what the valve assembly was for?
05:06 PM JT-Woodshop: I was the loader on another whirlpool assembly machine today after loading the plc program back in
05:06 PM JT-Woodshop: no, those are for the double chucker at foxy
05:07 PM Tom_L: i bet they all watched in awe
05:07 PM JT-Woodshop: the one tomorrow is the one that assembles the handle for the kitchen aid stand mixer that lifts the bowl
05:08 PM JT-Woodshop: I'm in Revere so much everyone thinks I work there lol
05:08 PM Tom_L: you do, you just get paid alot more
05:08 PM JT-Woodshop: you got that right
05:09 PM _unreal_: speaking of getting paid I just got an other raise
05:09 PM JT-Woodshop: I dropped my fee to $75 an hour a few years ago as I approach retirement
05:10 PM _unreal_: sigh.... I'm just shy of mid life
05:10 PM JT-Woodshop: 55-65 is when you need to make the big money to get a big ss check
05:10 PM _unreal_: https://github.com/berin-aquaquad/orange-pi-5
05:10 PM _unreal_: I'm making a part for this
05:10 PM Tom_L: JT-Woodshop, you were at the fest at mpm years back?
05:11 PM _unreal_: for the OPI5
05:11 PM JT-Woodshop: I almost went...
05:11 PM JT-Woodshop: but work got in the way
05:12 PM Tom_L: i did some work for a guy today that turned out to be a test pilot so we engaged in airplane talk. and led to local cnc shops etc. mentioned my kids worked at them so he wondered if i'd ever heard of MPM
05:12 PM _unreal_: If my POS xwife had not F'D me up $$$$$ over the past 2 years. AS EXPECTED I wont every court battle. I'd be sitting on about 2 milliong shares of an oil company that pays dividens :(
05:12 PM _unreal_: its just mind blowing
05:12 PM JT-Woodshop: did mpm make aircraft parts?
05:12 PM Tom_L: yes
05:13 PM Tom_L: i told him i'd met Stuart and asked him if he knew him
05:13 PM Tom_L: turns out his neighbor bought out MPM from Stuart
05:13 PM JT-Woodshop: small world
05:13 PM Tom_L: he txt'd his neighbor and he verified it
05:13 PM Tom_L: yes
05:13 PM Tom_L: small world
05:14 PM JT-Woodshop: reminds me of the story of me meeting my neighbor in a local farm store
05:15 PM JT-Woodshop: neighbor had free ranging chickens and one day they started laying eggs on my side of the 20 so I started collecting them and eating them
05:15 PM JT-Woodshop: like little chicken egg pushers they got me hooked and stopped laying in my yard
05:16 PM JT-Woodshop: so I went to get some chicks and I'm standing in line and the lady in front of me they were having a price check issue so she started talking to me
05:17 PM JT-Woodshop: I told her the story of the chicken egg pushers and she asked me is your name Thornton? I said yes
05:17 PM JT-Woodshop: she said I'm your neighbor... we have been good friend since then
05:17 PM Tom_L: heh
05:18 PM XXCoder: lol fun
05:18 PM Tom_L: seems the more you engage with strangers the more you realize how small the world is
05:18 PM JT-Woodshop: speaking of chickens they are all on the roost and time to lock them up
05:18 PM JT-Woodshop: yup
05:19 PM JT-Woodshop: but I'll wait for the The Trial to finish
10:01 PM solarwind: Accidentally set my battery tab spot welder to 100J weld energy
10:01 PM solarwind: Luckily it was just an NiMH cell I was welding to
10:01 PM solarwind: Meant to set it to 10J. It blew a hole right into the cell
10:01 PM solarwind: would have been a disaster if it were Li-ion
10:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: ouch and 💥
11:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.cadsketcher.com/
11:11 PM Bleepshop: CaptainHindsight: They crossbred Blender with SolveSpace?
11:11 PM * Bleepshop grins evily and starts plotting world domination.
11:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://solvespace.com/index.pl
11:26 PM Bleepshop: I know SolveSpace, I've used it for kinematic designs for a couple of years now.
11:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you do
11:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but you didn't tell anyone else about it 🙍
11:30 PM Bleepshop: Actually I was using SolveSpace before I started lurking in here. LOL
11:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: since you were only lurking I can not confirm
11:33 PM Thorhian[m]: What is special about solve space?
11:34 PM Bleepshop: 33F here. ran in the house for a pack of cigs out of the freezer, What do I see? Ice cream sandwiches... YUM. LOL
11:35 PM Bleepshop: Thorhian[m]: You can do 2D/3D drawings with constraints so you can move bits and see how they interact.
11:36 PM Thorhian[m]: So like other constraint assembly systems?
11:37 PM Bleepshop: Dunno. It was the only GNU/GPL available 3 years ago or so.
11:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: like Freecad since 2004?
11:38 PM Bleepshop: I try to avoid Windows [7/10] like the plague. In fact I'd rather have the plague it's curable. LOL
11:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sorry "Initial release date: October 29, 2002"
11:40 PM Bleepshop: CaptainHindsight: I never could get FreeCAD to be stable on my machine. Crashed X repeatedly.
11:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe the bridge is having issues since this seems incoherent
11:42 PM Bleepshop: CaptainHindsight: What? That staement about I'd rather have the plague than have to work with a Windows box? Nope that's all accurate. LMAO
11:43 PM Bleepshop: I have exactly one Windows machine and it's got Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas and f-all else on it.
11:44 PM Bleepshop: And it's spent the last 6 months unplugged and gathering dust.
11:51 PM Thorhian[m]: Capt, bridged discord messages are coming back to discord btw.
11:52 PM * Thorhian[m] uploaded an image: (109KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/etgDMtCfeGgZptBdkEjXaxza/IMG_6700.png >
11:54 PM XXCoder: yeah discord<->matrix bot is slightly bugged since discord changed something
11:54 PM XXCoder: I already reported to bridge source git