#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 29 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:38 AM XXCoder: watching a artisan makes. not bad so far
12:53 AM XXCoder: interesting https://youtu.be/UpQ_CarkEXg
12:53 AM XXCoder: fixing up a REALLY cheap kurt ripoff
01:12 AM Thorhian[m]: He has a lot of awesome videos.
01:12 AM XXCoder: yah watching few so far
01:13 AM Thorhian[m]: I really wish he just bought a metal band saw or built a powered hacksaw though lol.
01:13 AM XXCoder: i already knew about scaping due to robertz but yeah nice to see some less skilled guy do it
01:14 AM XXCoder: I really want to try build millenium machine design mill lol
01:15 AM XXCoder: i dont really need one but just something to do, that is I had room
01:15 AM Thorhian[m]: I think the most impressive scraping job I’ve seen was from Ca’Lem, making his own power scraper to restore an old Mori Seiki engine lathe.
01:17 AM Thorhian[m]: https://youtu.be/kR0ld_3gtw0
01:17 AM Thorhian[m]: https://youtu.be/_nCGMDBjyH4
01:17 AM Thorhian[m]: https://youtu.be/1itrbnnjgEM
01:19 AM XXCoder: looked though. machine is interesting
01:44 AM Deejay: moin
03:04 AM XXCoder: wtching first video of inehirance maching. great so far!
03:32 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning, 24F with a high of 35F.
04:40 AM Tom_L: morning
04:50 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:43 AM travis_farmer[m]: so, great news! i checked my bank account this morning, just on a whim, and saw that my IRS Tax refund has FINALLY been deposited, with interest! so now, i just have to find out how much i owe my fathers company for the first set of material for my new shop, and then figure out if i have enough to finish the shop, and buy the things i need for my machine, like the spindle and VFD, and the CAD software, though the CAD software can
05:43 AM travis_farmer[m]: actually wait a bit. but once i find out how much i have to go for the shop, i will start a savings account at my bank, and put that money into it for when it turns to Spring/Summer, when i can work on the shop.
06:28 AM travis_farmer[m]: ...well i thought it was good news :-(
06:32 AM He[m]1: What happun
06:42 AM travis_farmer[m]: i thought i had enough to pay back my father, buy the needed spindle and VFD, and finish my shop build... but after i pay my father, buy the spindle/VFD, it leaves $300 or $400 to finish the shop...
06:44 AM travis_farmer[m]: may have to use just scrap lumber to finish my shop...
06:56 AM JT-Cave: can you say sudo apt install mesact... not now but soon maybe :)
06:57 AM Loetmichel: travis_farmer[m]: friends and made a 5 to military truck into an RV with scrap wood and metal. no big deal. :)
06:59 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, is it in their repo now?
07:00 AM JT-Cave: no, smoe just offered to sponsor me
07:00 AM JT-Cave: of course I said yes not knowing what a maintainer has to do LOL
07:01 AM Tom_L: haha
07:01 AM travis_farmer[m]: Loetmichel: oh, i know it is no big deal. :-) but before my current spindle started howling badly, and my VFD started acting up, and is now unusable, i would have had enough to finish my shop. just an unexpected speed-bump :-)
07:02 AM Tom_L: unable to locate package mesact
07:02 AM Tom_L: bookworm
07:06 AM JT-Cave: smoe said The .debs in the source tree should not be in the source tree, but they are. A better place would be next to the release tarball or on a github pages accompanying the tool or .. somewhere else. When running uscan to auto-fetch a new version, the .deb files are auto-removed (which is declared in debian/copyright, which is why lintian new that those files should not be there).
07:09 AM JT-Cave: A few years late, but I just implemented a simple redirect to support https://github.com/USER/PROJECT/releases/latest/download/package.zip. That should redirected to the latest tagged package.zip release asset.
07:10 AM Tom_L: Not Found
07:13 AM JT-Cave: what is not found?
07:13 AM Tom_L: package.zip
07:13 AM Loetmichel: travis_farmer[m]: i know that feeling. My two 6040 have the watercooled 800W three phase spindles
07:13 AM Tom_L: your link returned Not Found
07:14 AM Tom_L: not 404 just "Not Found"
07:14 AM Loetmichel: one of them is now in service for close to 8 years. the sounds the bearings in that one make sometimes...
07:14 AM Loetmichel: *shudder*
07:15 AM Loetmichel: i should add that both of them are used in a company pretty much 8h a day 5 days a week
07:15 AM travis_farmer[m]: there, i have done the unthinkable... just bought this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/385203083407 and will soon spiral into madness, getting it fitted and working... :-)
07:15 AM Loetmichel: (that reminds me that i REALLY should clean the SBRs and ballscrews on the old one. Those are making gruesome sounds lately, too)
07:16 AM Loetmichel: nice one (the spindle)... a bit big for my machines but really nice.
07:17 AM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i need to lube my ballscrews too, just to keep them good...
07:17 AM JT-Cave: that just an example syntax
07:17 AM Tom_L: k, just showing what i found
07:17 AM Tom_L: and just like that POOF! i'm gone
07:17 AM travis_farmer[m]: my machine is 48 X 48 inch, Loetmichel so i think it will fit nicely :-)
07:19 AM JT-Cave: https://github.com/jethornton/mesact/releases/latest/download/mesact_1.1.2_amd64.deb
07:19 AM Loetmichel: travis_farmer[m]: CNC 6040 is called that because its 600 by 400mm travel.
07:20 AM Loetmichel: but they are made so flimsy that i would not want to hang THAT spindle on the gantry. probably would generate a 2mm dip in the middle of the gantry travel from the weight alone ;)
07:21 AM travis_farmer[m]: hehe, yeah, it may be a tad large for a 6040 ;-)
07:24 AM Loetmichel: the thing that surprises me most is that that 6040 is still working after close to 8 years of industrial use. :D
07:25 AM travis_farmer[m]: must mean that you take good care of it, Loetmichel
07:26 AM acer is now known as _unreal_
07:27 AM Loetmichel: well, i recently got a quote for a "semi-profi" gantry mill from a german manufacturer... showed it to the boss and he nearly had a stroke.
07:27 AM Loetmichel: was only 80keur though
07:30 AM travis_farmer[m]: 80Keur is way more than i paid for mine, but sounds like it could be a good deal
07:31 AM Loetmichel: its actually pretty cheap for a 1600mm by 1200mm travel gantry CNC mill fully housed
07:31 AM Loetmichel: and german made
07:31 AM Loetmichel: new of course
07:34 AM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, that is very cheap!
07:38 AM sensille: Loetmichel: just tell him you want to build this instead https://youtu.be/cqYJS27aC4w
08:00 AM Loetmichel: sensille: nah. i apparently cost about 120 eur an hour. that would be throwing money into the campfire.
08:02 AM sensille: and it would probably cost 80kEur in parts alone
08:02 AM Loetmichel: yeah, if not more
08:05 AM travis_farmer[m]: 120 eur per hour??? crap, i only made $14usd per hour...
08:07 AM sensille: he costs 120 euro, not he makes that
08:07 AM travis_farmer[m]: hmm, true...
08:11 AM sensille: probably in coffee
08:11 AM travis_farmer[m]: lol
08:37 AM travis_farmer[m]: Hmmm, now i have buyer's guilt, for spending $2K on a spindle... but i am also excited for it's arrival... not sure if it comes with a tool holder or not, but i am sure i will be spending a good amount of time mounting and wiring the setup, and getting it to work with LCNC, long before i need to worry about using it. say nothing bout plumbing the air lines. i may just use some small flexible air hose on the machine, and change to
08:37 AM travis_farmer[m]: the firmer "push to connect" style air lines at the spindle. or something to that effect. it will all be a huge learning experience. :-)
08:39 AM roycroft: that's an expensive spindle
08:40 AM roycroft: it must be pretty powerful - 5-8hp?
08:42 AM travis_farmer[m]: 4.5KW so that's what, 5 or 6 HP
08:46 AM travis_farmer[m]: and if i have enough, i will be buying shielded wire to go between the motor and VFD, rather than the unshielded wire already on my machine
09:00 AM c101horse[m]: fella's i bit the bullit and bought a rpi4
09:01 AM c101horse[m]: and once again im having troubles
09:01 AM c101horse[m]: when i put the rpi version on the sd card via the normal rpi way its saying it needs a newer software version
09:27 AM travis_farmer[m]: looks like i should have fun working with mb2hal, to get my to-be-shipped Fuling DBZ312 VFD to communicate with LCNC... ben reading the docs on mb2hal, and checked the forum posts regarding it, and i can say with certainty, that i am more confused now, then i was before. ;-)
09:36 AM pere: :)
10:31 AM sensille: travis_farmer[m]: i've just gone through setting up mb2hal. it works, but it is still lacking
10:34 AM travis_farmer[m]: when i get the VFD and the manual with specs, i will hopefully know more :-)
10:40 AM roycroft: ooh, we get an extra 37 seconds of daylight today vs yesterday
10:40 AM roycroft: all that extra time is really starting to add up!
10:46 AM Bleepshop: travis_farmer[m4: Go hit the local scrapyards and see if they'll sell you cable from the wire bin. That's where ~1/2 of my cabling came from.
11:00 AM travis_farmer[m]: Bleepshop: interesting thought, getting scrap wire... could work fine if they have what i need. :-)
11:39 AM Tom_L: c101horse[m], i would suggest: http://raspi.debian.net/tested-images/
11:42 AM c101horse[m]: are those the images for the lcnc one or just the rpi os thing
11:42 AM Tom_L: just os
11:42 AM c101horse[m]: ok
11:42 AM Tom_L: but i have installed lcnc on a couple
11:43 AM Tom_L: i have buster, bullseye and bookworm sd
11:45 AM c101horse[m]: ok, i've installed the os from the pi imager and done the lcnc install as per the docs for raspian 10, but when doing the last step its giving me a hissy fit about some packages. but if i go to reboot it hangs and only shows a color palet
11:45 AM Tom_L: buster had a problem when updating the usb quits
11:46 AM Tom_L: i dunno about raspian 10
11:46 AM Tom_L: but buster is debian 10
11:46 AM Tom_L: so i use that one without updating
11:46 AM c101horse[m]: so, install the imager os thing and dont update it?
11:47 AM c101horse[m]: im having a bit of a blank moment
11:48 AM Tom_L: all i'm saying is buster for the rpi4 has a slight problem. they may have fixed it by now
11:48 AM c101horse[m]: or do i put one of these on and install lcnc as if it were normal debian?
11:49 AM Tom_L: yes but i don't think bullseye has a repo
11:49 AM Tom_L: bookworm does i believe
11:50 AM * JT-Shop starts a couple of fires
11:50 AM Tom_L: i've got so many test ssd/sd it's hard to keep track what each does
11:50 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop, ready for a build?
11:51 AM Tom_L: c101horse[m], you will also need a preempt-rt kernel for the os
11:51 AM JT-Woodshop: no, still working on removing the firmware and d/l from a repo and put in .local
11:52 AM Tom_L: i may have built mine.. can't remember now
11:52 AM Tom_L: jt ok
11:53 AM JT-Woodshop: when you see version 1.1.3 it will be ready to build
11:54 AM c101horse[m]: i feel im way out of my depth again
11:54 AM c101horse[m]: i've tried it like this, didnt work, hissy fit about needing newer software
11:54 AM c101horse[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-fzD8sEcIk&t=372s
11:55 AM Tom_L: what's your plans for the rpi4?
11:55 AM Tom_L: jt you sound confident :)
11:55 AM c101horse[m]: using it instead of all the crappy pc's that turned out didnt want to work after hours messing with them
11:57 AM * Tom_L pulls out his pile of sd imgs
11:58 AM c101horse[m]: the old desktops keep pissing me off, working fine for a few jobs then all of a sudden, fucked, sudden high latency and nothing seems to fix the damn things
11:59 AM Tom_L: running an ethernet mesa card?
11:59 AM c101horse[m]: other than going through the whole install process again and it doing the same thing again after maybe a job or two
11:59 AM c101horse[m]: yeh
12:01 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:02 PM JT-Woodshop: if any of those pc's have an intel nic then you have turn off coalesing
12:02 PM JT-Woodshop: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/debian-10-eth.html
12:03 PM c101horse[m]: honestly i've given up on them
12:03 PM Tom_dev: Linux raspberrypi 5.15.56-v8+ #1575 SMP PREEMPT Fri Jul 22 20:31:26 BST 2022 aarch64 GNU/Linux
12:03 PM JT-Woodshop: ok
12:03 PM Tom_dev: bookworm/sid
12:03 PM Tom_dev: you may want to find 4.19 kernel patches and build that instead of 5.xx
12:04 PM Tom_dev: i hear 5.xx isn't as good
12:04 PM c101horse[m]: where do i find that?
12:04 PM c101horse[m]: just google it?
12:05 PM Tom_L: https://kernel.org/
12:05 PM Tom_L: then you need the rt patches and build the kernel yourself
12:06 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc-old/uspace/index.html
12:06 PM JT-Shop: rpi4 instructions
12:06 PM * JT-Shop takes a nap
12:06 PM Tom_L: https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/
12:07 PM Tom_L: nap right after this apple pie
12:07 PM c101horse[m]: uh, i have no idea what im doing or what im looking at in these links
12:11 PM Tom_L: this is a bit dated but may help: https://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc-old/uspace/rpi4-rt.html
12:12 PM Tom_L: i doubt any of your mainstream img files will have a preempt-rt kernel. you will have to come up with that yourself
12:13 PM Tom_L: and 4.19 is better than 5.xx latency wise
12:13 PM c101horse[m]: dang
12:13 PM Tom_L: put on your big boy pants...
12:14 PM Tom_L: but at least you have a pc to use while you're getting the rpi ready
12:15 PM Tom_L: jt probably has a tutorial there as a guide
12:15 PM Tom_L: (gnipsel.com)
12:16 PM Tom_L: i would either try buster or bookworm. you'll have better luck than with bullseye
12:17 PM Tom_L: just my 2¢ worth..
12:27 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, i showed my kid that heatpump link and he said those are the exact units he's been testing lately
12:57 PM c101horse[m]: When building the preempt rt thingy it comes up with a blue window where you can select stuff, what do i do there? Doesnt say anything about that on the gnipsel page
01:00 PM * c101horse[m] uploaded an image: (2683KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/yWOVrTbtKsqPkvCJoEorTUXa/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_2033c680-3356-404f-a183-f92cb47b0e66.jpg >
01:00 PM c101horse[m]: This one
01:00 PM pcw--home: Most important is to select "Fully Preemptable Kernel"
01:01 PM c101horse[m]: Where do i select that
01:01 PM pcw--home: Might be in "General setup"
01:04 PM * c101horse[m] uploaded an image: (3060KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/SKHWdKnJEoBBsvdycmJxYHrJ/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_0c594834-5b51-4b38-8ef8-3a5226fc02f8.jpg >
01:04 PM c101horse[m]: Found it, now what do i do?
01:08 PM c101horse[m]: Do i like exit out of this? Or do i have to do more stuff in here?
01:15 PM JT-Woodshop: just save and exit
01:16 PM * c101horse[m] uploaded an image: (1202KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/IyKbWQZsuMRtqQbZBLGGpqlX/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_957c4ca5-a6aa-47c0-97b2-7d8203f11abd.jpg >
01:16 PM c101horse[m]: Why
01:16 PM c101horse[m]: Doing what the gnipsel thing says
01:17 PM JT-Woodshop: that's me
01:17 PM c101horse[m]: What am i doing wrong
01:17 PM JT-Woodshop: what step are you on?
01:17 PM JT-Woodshop: from here? https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc-old/uspace/rpi4-rt.html
01:17 PM c101horse[m]: Still step one i guess
01:18 PM c101horse[m]: Since the install of the preempt kernel gets me that
01:18 PM JT-Woodshop: sudo cp arch/arm/boot/dts/*.dtb /boot/ that step?
01:18 PM c101horse[m]: yes
01:19 PM c101horse[m]: i think i need to star over, again
01:19 PM JT-Woodshop: give me a bit of time and I'll build and check the instructions, they may have changed something
01:20 PM JT-Woodshop: it can't hurt to start over
01:21 PM JT-Woodshop: oh by the way you might not want to start with the lite image there's no desktop
01:21 PM c101horse[m]: Yeah figured that
01:22 PM JT-Woodshop: this seems to be the latest https://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspios_lite_armhf/
01:22 PM JT-Woodshop: 32 bit
01:22 PM JT-Woodshop: https://downloads.raspberrypi.org/
01:23 PM c101horse[m]: Dont tell me ive got to start over from 0 again
01:23 PM JT-Woodshop: I'm not going to tell you that
01:23 PM c101horse[m]: Thank god
01:24 PM * c101horse[m] uploaded an image: (1397KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/ZmPjwZaYixNcPxUwQjAWsHYO/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_b01bdf20-c283-4a84-a6ab-8860dbb3ba0a.jpg >
01:24 PM c101horse[m]: Is that what its supposed to say?
01:24 PM JT-Woodshop: looks like rpi-4.19.y-rt is the latest 4.x rt patch
01:24 PM c101horse[m]: where do i find out what im on atm?
01:25 PM JT-Woodshop: no, looks like an error at the end
01:25 PM JT-Woodshop: my instructions use rpi-4.19.y-rt
01:26 PM roycroft: well finally my vehicle registration arrived
01:27 PM TurBoss: uname -a
01:27 PM roycroft: the state took over two months to send it
01:27 PM c101horse[m]: where do i find the non lite version of that
01:27 PM roycroft: and they do not issue temporary registration forms any more, so i've been driving my pickup illegally for two months
01:27 PM TurBoss: c101horse🇳🇱: uname -a gives running kernel
01:27 PM c101horse[m]: im staring myself blind on this again
01:27 PM travis_farmer[m]: i remember my first time building a kernel... it was years ago, a royal PITA, and i think i was able to get something from it... errors ;-)
01:28 PM c101horse[m]: Linux raspberrypi 5.15.61-v8+ #1579 SMP PREEMPT Fri Aug 26 11:16:44 BST 2022 aarch64 GNU/Linux
01:28 PM roycroft: not to mention that i needed to transfer the plates from my old vehicle to the new one, and had no idea when that change would be made at the dmv, so i've been driving with the old plates on the vehicle and the new ones inside the vehicle
01:28 PM TurBoss: Linux raspberrypi 6.1.1-rt5-v8-tnx+ #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT Sun Dec 25 19:12:14 CET 2022 aarch64 GNU/Linux
01:28 PM TurBoss: 😛
01:28 PM roycroft: none of which would have made driving the thing legal, but might have pursuaded a cop to write a warning instead of a ticket
01:29 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: nice lol
01:29 PM roycroft: it used to be that when you submitted a transaction for a change like this you would get a receipt of transaction, which was a valid form of registration for 90 days
01:29 PM roycroft: but they don't do that any more
01:30 PM TurBoss: c101horse🇳🇱: https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/linux_kernel.html#kernel
01:30 PM TurBoss: i could apply 6.1 rt patches
01:31 PM TurBoss: https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/6.1/
01:32 PM c101horse[m]: but does that get me up and running in installing the kernel?
01:32 PM c101horse[m]: im still stuck at the downloading and building the kernel bit
01:32 PM TurBoss: check this https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/linux_kernel.html#patching-the-kernel
01:34 PM c101horse[m]: 🤯
01:34 PM c101horse[m]: i have no idea what im looking at or how to implement what im looking at, im a total noob when it comes to
01:34 PM c101horse[m]: linux stuff
01:34 PM TurBoss: ok give me a sek
01:34 PM travis_farmer[m]: i think c101horse🇳🇱 was going for kernel 4.19, as it had better latency, TurBoss will 6.1 get him where he wants to go?
01:35 PM c101horse[m]: im going for something that works
01:35 PM TurBoss: oh ok
01:35 PM TurBoss: sorry for the mess
01:36 PM travis_farmer[m]: just trying to keep confusion down :-)
01:36 PM c101horse[m]: i've aparantly allready wrecked several sd cards trying to get stuff to do atleast something
01:37 PM c101horse[m]: ill just start from scratch, what thing do i put on the sd with the imager thing and where do i get it
01:52 PM c101horse[m]: right, what image do i put on the sd card?
01:54 PM JT-Cave: give me a bit of time to see
01:59 PM JT-Cave: looks like rpi os 11 is using kernel 5.15 so I'll try that and recreate the rpi page
02:01 PM XXCoder: inheritance machining is such a great yt channel so far
02:04 PM c101horse[m]: it is
02:05 PM c101horse[m]: aight, writing that to the sd card now, ill report back when i've got the rpi desktop on screen
02:05 PM c101horse[m]: so give it an hour or two maybe
02:06 PM travis_farmer[m]: it occurred to me, having just bought a ATC spindle that uses compressed air, that i have no compressed air in that shop... will have to figure that out at some point... ;-)
02:06 PM acer: looking for an adapter
02:06 PM acer: https://www.amazon.com/SinLoon-Extension-Cable-Key-M-PCI-Express/dp/B08XYXFFRV/ref=sr_1_10?crid=30SRCCA3XF6FS&keywords=m.2+to+pcie+x4&qid=1672344232&s=electronics&sprefix=m.2+to+pcie+x4%2Celectronics%2C346&sr=1-10
02:06 PM acer: like this but I'm looking for a multi pcie port not a single
02:06 PM acer is now known as _unreal_
02:06 PM XXCoder: travis honestly id go water cooled. and yes get air compressor even if you get this
02:07 PM XXCoder: shops basically always need compressed air source
02:09 PM travis_farmer[m]: i have air compressors, just not in that shop. thats what i was getting at. have to run a air line out to it at some point. and i already bought the air-cooled unit
02:10 PM travis_farmer[m]: i will just have to make sure the cooling tunnels are always clear
02:10 PM XXCoder: :)
02:11 PM c101horse[m]: jbweld a wall around the fins and make it watercooled
02:11 PM travis_farmer[m]: my first priority will be getting it to work with LCNC, then i can add in the change features
02:11 PM travis_farmer[m]: i thought of that c101horse🇳🇱 ;-)
02:13 PM travis_farmer[m]: i will be milling wood, so i suspect just a good dust collection system will help the most
02:13 PM JT-Cave: if you download the latest rpi os it's kernel is 15.5
02:15 PM XXCoder: did you mean 5.15?
02:15 PM XXCoder: so far I know very bleeding edge of kernel is 6 or so
02:18 PM JT-Cave: c101horse[m], I'm redoing the instructions and they are here now https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/rpi4-11.html
02:18 PM JT-Cave: I'm on step two burning the iso to the sd card :)
02:18 PM JT-Cave: that will take a while so I'll go spoil the chickens for a bit
02:35 PM travis_farmer[m]: Hmmm, ,my ATC spindle says it needs dry air... i live in a humid state (Maine, USA, when in summer) will a sintered bronze water remover with trap bowl be enough, or do i need a desiccant dryer bowl?
02:37 PM XXCoder: dunno, only know huge type
02:38 PM XXCoder: it automatically keeps air tank drained of water, pumping it to outside
02:38 PM XXCoder: on humid days you could see one spot of parking lot always wet
02:38 PM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm, i don't have the money for a huge type...
02:39 PM XXCoder: yeah its probably 20k or more usd?
02:39 PM XXCoder: it have stages, probably how it gets rid of water
02:40 PM JT-Woodshop: some more recent instructions on the rpi4 rt kernel on the forum https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/47662-installing-linuxcnc-2-9-on-raspberry-pi-4-with-preempt-rt-kernel#259347
02:40 PM XXCoder: have big air cooling stage
02:40 PM travis_farmer[m]: in the winter, i have plenty of air cooling ;-)
02:41 PM XXCoder: ah it IS 5.15 kernel version
02:41 PM travis_farmer[m]: i wonder if i could build an air condenser/water separator...
02:42 PM c101horse[m]: do i have to be on a linux pc for that?
02:45 PM JT-Woodshop: for which one?
02:46 PM c101horse[m]: the forum one
02:47 PM JT-Woodshop: once you install the image on the rpi4 you do it on the rpi4
02:49 PM XXCoder: travis_farmer[m]: honestly id do research
02:49 PM XXCoder: also see if theres methods to build your own, though be careful, youre literally handling a bomb that is pressurized tank
02:49 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i am googeling as we speak ;-)
02:50 PM c101horse[m]: aight thanks
02:52 PM c101horse[m]: ill see if i can get it to function this go around
02:55 PM JT-Cave: looks like the image is booting up on the rpi4
02:59 PM roycroft: b20 diesel is down to $4.04
02:59 PM roycroft: it might get back to sub-$4.00 soon
02:59 PM roycroft: it was $5.79 the last time i filled up, in early november
03:00 PM JT-Cave: hmm it looks like the forum instructions are for building on a linux pc then burning to the sd
03:00 PM roycroft: actually, it is sub-$4.00 for me now, because one of my credit cards has a 10% cash rewards deal on fuel through the end of the year, which is why i topped it off today
03:01 PM * roycroft remembers when diesel was $0.20
03:03 PM JT-Cave: damn you're old
03:06 PM XXCoder: my first gas price was just under $1
03:07 PM XXCoder: to be fair it was actually right at dip, average was $1.50 or so
03:09 PM XXCoder: bleh. "ring test" for grinder wheel. yeah I just cant test it that way LOL
03:09 PM XXCoder: (making sure it has no hidden fracures)
03:09 PM JT-Cave: c101horse[m], https://jaybrockway.us/computer-science/raspberry-pi-kernel-real-time-build/
03:09 PM JT-Cave: this seems more recent
03:10 PM roycroft: when i was a kid, diesel was $0.20 and regular (leaded) gas was $0.28
03:10 PM roycroft: those prices were pretty stable for years
03:10 PM roycroft: and then it was the '70s
03:10 PM roycroft: and everything changed
03:11 PM roycroft: pelé has left the building
03:11 PM roycroft: which is no surprise, as he's been at death's door for some time now
03:11 PM travis_farmer[m]: i remember gas as a kid was just under $1. i could grab the 5 gallon gas can, walk to the gas station with a $5 bill in my pocket, fill the can and come back with change. this being sometime in the 80's.
03:14 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i think i built my rpi kernel on the pc then downloaded it to the rpi
03:15 PM JT-Cave: ok
03:15 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i recall gas wars at $.17
03:17 PM roycroft: i do too, not necessarily at $0.17, but at less than $0.20
03:18 PM roycroft: and on the other hand, i remember well gas rationing in the '70s
03:18 PM roycroft: limits per visit to a filling station
03:18 PM Tom_L: yeah everybody was lined up at the pump with 55gal drums etc
03:18 PM roycroft: queues that were sometimes blocks long
03:18 PM roycroft: even and odd license plate days
03:19 PM Tom_L: it was just a free for all here
03:19 PM Tom_L: (not literally)
03:19 PM travis_farmer[m]: glad i missed those gas war days...
03:19 PM roycroft: we should have weaned ourselves off middle eastern oil back then
03:19 PM roycroft: and become energy independent
03:19 PM roycroft: but we still haven't gotten there
03:19 PM roycroft: every president, regardless of party, has energy independence as a goal
03:20 PM travis_farmer[m]: i think OPEC has too much power
03:20 PM roycroft: every congress, no matter who is in charge, claims to want energy independence
03:20 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:27 PM roycroft: yet we never do anything real to achieve that
03:27 PM Tom_dev: JT-Cave, i may have followed this: https://www.instructables.com/64bit-RT-Kernel-Compilation-for-Raspberry-Pi-4B-/
03:27 PM Tom_dev: i know i kept those notes
03:27 PM Tom_L: for cross compiling
03:29 PM Tom_L: it would be nice for an atc but $$$ for what i do isn't worth it
03:30 PM travis_farmer[m]: i thought i could afford it, but i didn't factor the extras...
03:30 PM Tom_L: oh, that's just the beginning...
03:30 PM Tom_L: holders, retention knobs...
03:30 PM Tom_L: collets for the holders
03:31 PM Tom_L: tool setter..
03:31 PM travis_farmer[m]: air solinoids...
03:31 PM XXCoder: ensuring power supply for it if it dont already exist
03:31 PM travis_farmer[m]: i have power for it
03:31 PM Tom_L: air compressor, driers, regulators...
03:32 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i may have to use it like a manual change for a while... what a PITA i have created for myself... :-(
03:33 PM Tom_L: you still need air to hold the retention knob in place
03:33 PM travis_farmer[m]: dang...
03:33 PM Tom_L: or is it hydraulic?
03:33 PM travis_farmer[m]: air
03:33 PM Tom_L: don't go cheap on the compressor cause if you blow air in a nozzle you don't want the tool falling out
03:34 PM Tom_L: not one of those porta-air roofers use...
03:35 PM travis_farmer[m]: hmmm...
03:35 PM Tom_L: router not mill right?
03:35 PM c101horse[m]: am i supposed to do this whole thingy on a linux based pc?
03:35 PM travis_farmer[m]: yes, router
03:35 PM Tom_L: you get off the hook on mist coolant then :)
03:35 PM Tom_L: c101horse[m], would be best
03:35 PM Tom_L: you can burn the os on windows but i'd do it all on linux
03:36 PM Tom_L: you'll have to build the kernel either on a linux pc or the rpi itself
03:36 PM Tom_L: i built mine on a linux pc and downloaded it to the rpi
03:36 PM Tom_L: cross compiled
03:36 PM travis_farmer[m]: i am thinking i will have to sell my 5th wheel camper, such as it is, for some funds... :-(
03:37 PM Tom_L: or your right arm
03:37 PM travis_farmer[m]: i am right-handed, so better be my left arm
03:37 PM Tom_L: fun costs $$$, how much fun do you wanna have?
03:37 PM Tom_L: we used to say that about racing... speed costs...
03:37 PM Tom_L: how fast..
03:40 PM c101horse[m]: Im constantly running into problems doing it on the rpi. Ive now spend 10 hours chasing the problems starting over and over and over........ Still no further than i was 12 hours ago
03:40 PM roycroft: i disagree
03:40 PM roycroft: if you're a cat, fun can be nothing more than a wadded-up discarded scrap of paper
03:40 PM Tom_L: c101horse[m], give jt a chance to update his tutorial
03:41 PM Tom_L: go read a book
03:41 PM roycroft: or chase a paper wad
03:41 PM roycroft: or a laser pointer
03:41 PM Tom_L: heh
03:41 PM c101horse[m]: Yeah i will, i ripped out the sd again for a reflash since i managed to fuck up again
03:41 PM Tom_L: his tutorials are usually spot on
03:41 PM c101horse[m]: Ill just go drink and have a sleep i guess
03:42 PM travis_farmer[m]: just don't go buy an ATC spindle, it can ruin your finances
03:42 PM XXCoder: if I ever need bigger spindle i'd just get watercooled
03:42 PM c101horse[m]: Very likely its just me doing something dumb cause i havent a clue what im doing
03:42 PM Tom_L: travis_farmer[m], it was a cool idea
03:42 PM XXCoder: use large tank of water plus car heater core
03:43 PM c101horse[m]: I dont need an atc to ruin me financially, ive got several cars for that
03:43 PM travis_farmer[m]: yes, Tom_L , it was. i will do my best to make it work, but it will be hard going
03:43 PM travis_farmer[m]: several cars??? what the heck???
03:44 PM travis_farmer[m]: i have, like one truck, and it is an 2007 with over 200K miles
03:45 PM XXCoder: travis keep in mind that c101 may not be single, and has family :)
03:45 PM * roycroft has the prius, f350, 3/4 ton chevy van, and two vw buses
03:46 PM travis_farmer[m]: Hmmm...
03:46 PM JT-Cave: c101horse[m], there is a typo on this page https://jaybrockway.us/computer-science/raspberry-pi-kernel-real-time-build/
03:47 PM JT-Cave: should be make zImage.gz
03:47 PM c101horse[m]: '97 vw mk3 golf variant that needs work, '80 vw dasher/passat variant that hasnt ran in 2 years but has been swallowing money for the engine swap and custom parts(which is why i kinda need my mill back up and running)
03:48 PM c101horse[m]: Im very much single without family🤣
03:48 PM XXCoder: me, just ford focus 2012 that people keeps thinking is a prius and coal rolled
03:48 PM travis_farmer[m]: lol, XX
03:48 PM XXCoder: I laugh each time someone does, because 1) its not a prius. 2) I cannot smell so im immune to smell.
03:49 PM c101horse[m]: Diesels smell great anyway
03:50 PM XXCoder: most recent was couple days on way to oregon. man that was massive coal roll. guy probably burnt up a gallon of diesel trying to affect me and failed
03:50 PM XXCoder: guy drove all over and all. sped up, slowed down. me, I just stayed at same line and didnt change speed
03:51 PM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/rpi4-11.html
03:51 PM JT-Cave: updated
03:51 PM c101horse[m]: Awesome
03:51 PM XXCoder: jt nice
03:53 PM c101horse[m]: im guessing this is all done on a linux pc?
03:53 PM XXCoder: like jt said last time, its done on rpi which yes, is linux pc :)
03:53 PM c101horse[m]: im guessing ill have to steal pa's laptop since thats running mint or something
03:54 PM c101horse[m]: make sure im not doing anything different
03:55 PM JT-Woodshop: you just need to burn the normal image on the sd card and the rest is done on the rpi
03:55 PM JT-Woodshop: after you boot up and do the initial setup
03:57 PM c101horse[m]: is it better to go with 32 or 64 bit?
03:59 PM JT-Woodshop: Tom_L, built both, I'm building 32bit atm
03:59 PM c101horse[m]: aight, ta
04:31 PM Tom_L: 64bit run a bit quicker on the rpi4
04:32 PM c101horse[m]: uhm, what do i do when there isnt a patch for the kernel im running?
04:32 PM Tom_L: 2 choices
04:32 PM c101horse[m]: starting over and starting over?
04:32 PM Tom_L: get one that is close and hope for the best or find a kernel with a matching patch
04:33 PM Tom_L: that's what that long list was for yesterday
04:35 PM Tom_L: https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/
04:35 PM Tom_L: https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/
04:35 PM Tom_L: if you're using 5 or 6 pick one of those
04:36 PM Tom_L: list has changelogs, kernels and patches
04:36 PM JT-Woodshop: what kernel do you have?
04:36 PM JT-Woodshop: c1 if you follow my instructions there should be no guessing
04:37 PM JT-Woodshop: "should be"
04:37 PM c101horse[m]: koen@raspberrypi:~/source $ uname -a
04:37 PM c101horse[m]: Linux raspberrypi 5.15.61-v7l+ #1579 SMP Fri Aug 26 11:13:03 BST 2022 armv7l GNU/Linux
04:37 PM c101horse[m]:
04:37 PM Tom_L: c101horse[m], listen to jt since you've never built one
04:37 PM c101horse[m]: i am
04:37 PM c101horse[m]: honestly
04:38 PM Tom_L: nothing is hard once you've mastered it
04:39 PM c101horse[m]: anyway, this is where i've hit a wall everytime
04:39 PM c101horse[m]: when it comes to the installing part i get this:
04:39 PM c101horse[m]: `koen@raspberrypi:~/source $ make -j4 zImage.gz modules dtbs
04:39 PM c101horse[m]: make: *** No rule to make target 'zImage.gz'. Stop.
04:39 PM c101horse[m]: `
04:41 PM JT-Woodshop: hmm something is missing from my instructions the wget part
04:41 PM JT-Woodshop: crap
04:42 PM JT-Woodshop: brb
04:42 PM Tom_L: c101horse[m], we'll get you goin... just have a little more patience
04:45 PM c101horse[m]: i've got the patience, im just really frustrated at myself for doing the same thing over and over and everytime the same thing happens
04:45 PM JT-Cave: stand by
04:45 PM c101horse[m]: definition of insanity isnt it, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
04:48 PM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/rpi4-11.html
04:48 PM JT-Cave: I forgot copy patch the kernel sorry
04:50 PM * JT-Cave goes back to the wood shop
04:52 PM c101horse[m]: i think i've done something wrong, again
04:52 PM c101horse[m]: since the exact patch i need isnt in the download thingy
04:52 PM JT-Woodshop: I updated the instructions
04:53 PM Tom_L: i personally would try a 4.19 kernel if it works on that os
04:53 PM JT-Woodshop: hmm what base os did you install to get 5.15.61
04:54 PM Tom_L: you will get better latency results but for now to get you going follow what jt shows you
04:54 PM JT-Woodshop: I downloaded Raspberry Pi OS with desktop and recommended software
04:54 PM JT-Woodshop: Release date: September 22nd 2022
04:54 PM JT-Woodshop: System: 32-bit
04:54 PM JT-Woodshop: Kernel version: 5.15
04:54 PM * c101horse[m] uploaded an image: (168KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/CpsfRXGucLWShghIcigWdxLH/image.png >
04:54 PM c101horse[m]: that one
04:55 PM JT-Woodshop: the top one?
04:55 PM c101horse[m]: yes
04:55 PM Tom_L: once you get it, be sure to run a latency test
04:55 PM c101horse[m]: i need the second one dont i
04:56 PM JT-Woodshop: I always use the "recommended software" or non-free
04:56 PM JT-Woodshop: just to make sure you have it all
04:56 PM c101horse[m]: aight ok, well, thanks so far, ill go and try that one tomorrow when im rested and am not as frustrated
04:57 PM Tom_L: good idea
04:57 PM JT-Woodshop: yup
04:57 PM JT-Woodshop: I don't see a 5.16.61 rt patch
04:57 PM Tom_L: unless we croak, we'll still be here
04:57 PM JT-Woodshop: shut your mouth
04:58 PM JT-Woodshop: c101horse[m], when I'm done today getting the rt kernel to run, I'll start over again in the morning and verify my instructions
05:04 PM * travis_farmer[m] wonders how he will ever dig out of the financial pit he has fallen into...
05:06 PM * JT-Woodshop wanders back inside and tucks the chickens in for the night
05:11 PM roycroft: travis_farmer: get yourself a 3d printer and start printing gold bars
05:18 PM JT-Cave: the gold filament is higher than gold
05:30 PM roycroft: you're supposed to print the gold bars out of petg + alchemy
05:38 PM JT-Cave: I've not seen this before mkdir --parents
05:39 PM XXCoder: is that one whre it makes all folders between you want to exist and dir youre in
05:40 PM XXCoder: ie: mkdir --parents /youarehere/some/more/dirs/that/dont/exist/now/somenewdir
05:40 PM JT-Cave: yup I looked at the man page
05:40 PM XXCoder: been quite a while since I used that lol
05:41 PM JT-Cave: doesn't make sense in this context thou mkdir --parents ~/source && cd ~/source
05:41 PM JT-Cave: where there are no subdirectory
05:41 PM XXCoder: hm is it initial account setup? if so it might be making user dir?
05:41 PM XXCoder: otherwise yeah dunno
05:42 PM JT-Cave: https://jaybrockway.us/computer-science/raspberry-pi-kernel-real-time-build/
05:42 PM JT-Cave: step 2
05:43 PM XXCoder: yeah thats just strange dunno
05:43 PM JT-Cave: interesting switch thou
05:44 PM XXCoder: yeah its handy in scripts if you want to make bunch of dirs depth in single command
05:50 PM JT-Cave: yup
05:51 PM JT-Cave: c101horse[m], I got a rt kernel on the rpi4 so updated instructions and double check in the am
05:54 PM JT-Cave: then on to emc
05:54 PM JT-Cave: say goodnight Gracie
05:54 PM XXCoder: have good night jt
06:45 PM _unreal_: so I'm trying to find a multi pcie port
06:45 PM _unreal_: https://www.amazon.com/SinLoon-Extension-Cable-Key-M-PCI-Express/dp/B08XYXFFRV/ref=sr_1_10?crid=30SRCCA3XF6FS&keywords=m.2+to+pcie+x4&qid=1672344232&s=electronics&sprefix=m.2+to+pcie+x4%2Celectronics%2C346&sr=1-10
06:46 PM _unreal_: like this but has at least 2 ports
06:46 PM _unreal_: err expantion ports
08:33 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Express-Slot-Expansion-System/dp/B000UZL1GC
08:34 PM XXCoder: yeah I think I'll watch all inheirance machining videos lol
08:34 PM XXCoder: fun so far
08:35 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, https://www.ebay.com/itm/265995674422
08:38 PM * roycroft is watching perry mason at the moment
09:23 PM roycroft: spoiler: perry figured it out
09:25 PM _unreal_: toxx, Tom_L that second one looks very interesting but its USB based
09:25 PM _unreal_: Tom_L,
09:25 PM _unreal_: I'm looking for something like that but is m.2 to pcie x4 2+ ports
09:25 PM _unreal_: like I posted
09:25 PM _unreal_: the one I posted is only a single port :(
09:29 PM Bleep-CNC: Do I need to actually have the machine connected to the 7i96s to do a test setup or can I just do a dummy run?
09:30 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, https://ameridroid.com/products/m-2-to-pcie-adapter-straight an other example just not x4
09:43 PM Bleep-CNC: pcw--home: You alive?
09:45 PM * Bleep-CNC starts flipping over 1-2-3 blocks looking for a 7i96s guru.
09:47 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:50 PM _unreal_: Bleepshop, ?
09:51 PM _unreal_: Bleep-CNC, the 7i96 is just an I/O board. it does not know if anything is connected or not unless its set to read a normally closed circuit. I.E. serial limit switch setup
09:52 PM _unreal_: So yes you could set it up with out plugging it into a machine. regardless there are status LED's on the board and they will show you activity.
09:52 PM Bleep-CNC: _unreal_: Got my PC built, got my 7i96s. What I want to know is do I have to wire everything or will just 5V and a Cat5 cable is enough to test pncconf?
09:52 PM _unreal_: So as long as you are not violating the setup. Then technically it should work just fine with out being plugged in
09:53 PM _unreal_: depends on what your testing
09:53 PM _unreal_: but yes it should show up just fine
09:53 PM Bleep-CNC: That's what I thought. So why is it consistantly barfing on me?
09:53 PM _unreal_: the 7i96 does not know if it is plugged into a motor controller or not
09:53 PM _unreal_: its OUTPUT signal.
09:54 PM _unreal_: The only thing that matters is any I/O port that is set to read an input. and if that input is out of the range it is expected to be in during normal operation. Then that is going to result in a safety halt.
09:56 PM Bleep-CNC: It gets as far as "note: jog_invert=set()" then dies with "TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable" .
09:58 PM _unreal_: ? not sure what error that is. is this a first time setup?
09:59 PM Plaid1: Bleep-CNC: Where are you seeing that error at? What are you running?
09:59 PM _unreal_: and if so what method have you used to create the working setup
10:00 PM Bleep-CNC: _unreal_: First time with pncconf and trying to duplicate the working parallel setup before rebuilding the whole cabinet.
10:01 PM Bleep-CNC: Plaid1: phydeaux@accu-cut:~$ linuxcnc ./linuxcnc/configs/my_LinuxCNC_machine/my_LinuxCNC_machine.ini
10:02 PM _unreal_: ok so first build and pnconfig
10:02 PM _unreal_: then it should be straight forward
10:02 PM _unreal_: in regards to just using pnconfig to setup.
10:02 PM Bleep-CNC: _unreal_: That's what I heard. But she's being stubborn. LOL
10:03 PM _unreal_: The machine that its going to be driving. how are the limits setup? are they always open? always closed?
10:04 PM Bleep-CNC: NC for the final build, was just trying to get a working config after which I was going to tinker as needed.
10:04 PM _unreal_: ok. then you will need to short those pins to ground
10:05 PM _unreal_: if you have them setup on the board
10:05 PM _unreal_: other wise your going to get an error right off the bat.
10:06 PM _unreal_: What I'm saying is that if you setup your limits to be normally closed. and you then try to do anything with the board. It's going to fail before it even starts. Because Its looking to resolve why its limit switch has been triggered before homing.
10:08 PM Bleep-CNC: Just pulled all the defined inputs and it still barfs at the same point
10:08 PM _unreal_: and I say ground. but You want to satisfy what ever the setup is so the bench test does not fail with a limit switch being activated.
10:08 PM _unreal_: I dont know what jog invert is off the top of my head
10:08 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, you live?
10:12 PM Bleep-CNC: Starts up fine with note: note: MAXV max: 1.000 units/sec 60.000 units/min note: LJOG max: 1.000 units/sec 60.000 units/min note: LJOG default: 0.250 units/sec 15.000 units/min jog_order='XYZ' note: jog_invert=set() Note: Using POSIX realtime
10:12 PM Bleep-CNC: Opps. Teh POSIX should be the first line.
10:15 PM Bleep-CNC: Here's the output. https://pastebin.com/JiMkdda8
10:16 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, and Tom_L and pcw--home are the best peole to ask.
10:17 PM _unreal_: Bleep-CNC, to be honist I have not activly run lcnc in about a year. I have a box setup with a 7i96 but the new machine is not done being built. and I'm prob going to go with a planetcnc controller I have.
10:18 PM XXCoder: i checked the pastebin, no idea honestly
10:21 PM Bleep-CNC: Crap! Wrong button. LOL
10:25 PM Bleep-CNC: OK. That is jut totally F'd up. I ssh to a remote box, ssh back, linuxcnc fires right up. Dafuq? LMAO
10:30 PM Bleep-CNC: OK. Re-installed xorg. Rebooting.
10:39 PM Bleep-CNC: I am either gonna have to re-install this blasted thing, run it via an ssh loop or run it headless and remote. LOL
10:42 PM * Bleep-CNC says "Screw it!" and grabs the Ventoy key.