#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 23 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:25 AM FinboySlick: XXCoder: Been watching Inheritance Machining for a little while, high production value. It's a good 'chill' vibe.
12:34 AM XXCoder: nice
12:34 AM FinboySlick: Quality reminds me a bit of This Old Tony, but without the silly parts.
12:34 AM XXCoder: appealing.
12:42 AM Deejay: moin
01:16 AM randy: morning
02:52 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:02 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning, snow plow woke me up, and couldn't get back to sleep...
03:05 AM CloudEvil: :)
03:05 AM XXCoder: good premorning
03:07 AM travis_farmer[m]: pre? it is 4AM here... part of the morning is already gone ;-)
03:07 AM XXCoder: 1 am here :P
03:11 AM travis_farmer[m]: hey XX, what's this i read about you getting "old" symptoms, i thought you were in your 20's or 30's? lol guess you can't judge age by typing.. ;-)
03:11 AM XXCoder: im 46 :P and back arthitis started when I was 27
03:11 AM XXCoder: started wrong word, more like discovered
03:12 AM travis_farmer[m]: yeah i am 43, with degenerative joint disease
04:42 AM Tom_L: morning
04:48 AM travis_farmer[m]: 32F and raining. supposed to get rain most of the day, with wind gust up to 45MPH, and then a quick-freeze around evening down in the 20's. be lucky if i have power all day. generator propane tanks (two 100 pounders) are around 60%
04:49 AM Tom_L: -1F
05:04 AM JT-Cave: -4°F
05:04 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:05 AM JT-Cave: 19.1°F in Coop Uno and 16.6°F in Coop Deux
05:07 AM JT-Cave: gonna be cold here till Wednesday
08:24 AM * travis_farmer[m] uploaded an image: (1028KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/iLwbXKQEdZgzWJNcSiyHoqnm/Screenshot%202022-12-23%20at%2009-23-09%20Radar.png >
08:25 AM travis_farmer[m]: i am in Farmington, and the rain storm has arrived...
08:26 AM travis_farmer[m]: and weather has issued a flash flood warning...
08:53 AM Deejay: re
09:09 AM roguish[m]: 42 and foggy here in SF East Bay.
09:40 AM roycroft: happy short friday
09:43 AM roycroft: happy icy friday, as well
09:44 AM travis_farmer[m]: right now, just a lot of rain, and it is turning the snow into frozen slop
09:45 AM roycroft: it's -2 here right now, but the temperature should climb above freezing in an hour or two
09:45 AM roycroft: and then it's going to rain
09:45 AM roycroft: but right now, everything is covered in ice
09:45 AM roycroft: i am not going anywhere until the ice is gone
09:46 AM roycroft: pretty much the entire city is shut down
09:46 AM travis_farmer[m]: i was just going to say, stay safe on that ice
09:46 AM JT-Cave: none of the hens will come out of the coop
09:46 AM travis_farmer[m]: can you blame them ;-)
09:46 AM JT-Cave: we are up to -1°F
09:47 AM travis_farmer[m]: 39F here
09:48 AM JT-Cave: I need to suit up and bring the hens some food and water
09:51 AM roycroft: make sure that the water is boiling hot when you prepare it, so that it won't be frozen by the time you get to the coop
09:52 AM travis_farmer[m]: hot water freezes faster, IIRC
09:54 AM roycroft: it freezes at a faster rate
09:54 AM roycroft: which is not the same as freezing faster
09:55 AM roycroft: and as it cools, the rate of temperature change decreases
09:56 AM travis_farmer[m]: https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/hot_water.html "In short, hot water does freeze sooner than cold water under a wide range of circumstances."
09:58 AM travis_farmer[m]: but anyway, not going to argue, this close to Christmas :-)
10:03 AM sensille: my new waterpump for the spindle arrived. it's magical. the "75W" pump actually only need 25W
10:03 AM sensille: is that a feature?
10:03 AM sensille: i'm happy that if moves water at all
10:05 AM roycroft: if yours is of the same class as the ubiquitous 2.5kw 80mm 3 or 4 bearing chinese water-cooled spindle, it doesn't take too much coolant circulation
10:05 AM roycroft: a fairly small pump is fine for those
10:06 AM roycroft: travis_farmer: that article supports both what i said and what you said
10:06 AM roycroft: so there really is no need to argue
10:06 AM roycroft: we are both correct
10:07 AM sensille: roycroft: 800W
10:07 AM travis_farmer[m]: :-)
10:07 AM roycroft: your pump is more than sufficient
10:07 AM sensille: it takes ages to even clear out the air
10:08 AM sensille: but compared to the old one it is _very_ silent
10:10 AM roycroft: that is definitely a feature
10:10 AM roycroft: i got a water-cooled spindle for my router table because i did not want all that sawdust being blown through the spindle motor
10:11 AM roycroft: but when i installed it i realised that an almost greater advantage is that it is much quieter than an air-cooled spindle
10:12 AM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, mine, with a direct drive fan, is impressively loud at 21K RPM
10:12 AM travis_farmer[m]: though the bearings may be part of that too...
10:13 AM sensille: yeah, Loetmichel warned me about air-cooled spindles
10:15 AM travis_farmer[m]: the spindle i want has a separately powered, and hopefully quieter, cooling fan. i have not seen water-cooling in a 4.5KW as an option, in my price range
10:37 AM roguish[m]: JT-Cave: u there?
10:38 AM Tom_L: roguish[m], you figure out what caused your 7i80 problem?
10:41 AM roguish[m]: I believe so. I am almost certain it is/was the 6.0.0.0 kernel.
10:42 AM Tom_L: good to know
10:42 AM roguish[m]: late yesterday I finished testing the 7i80 and 7i37 and put them back in the real system.
10:43 AM roguish[m]: connected the wiring very slowly, and carefully, and low and behold, it works.
10:43 AM roguish[m]: now my 7i37 has a couple of dead outputs, not sure how that happened, but I can work around it.
10:43 AM Tom_L: back on 4.19 kernel?
10:43 AM roguish[m]: the 7i80 is fine.
10:44 AM roguish[m]: I think i dropped back to 5.18 (maybe 5.19)
10:44 AM roguish[m]: definitely 5.xx
10:44 AM Tom_L: will 4.19 work on bullseye?
10:45 AM roguish[m]: oh, shit, maybe not. it might be a 4.xxx have to check again.
10:45 AM Tom_L: probably needs something newer..
10:46 AM roguish[m]: well. it's still sort of messed up. I have done so many installs and upgrades, I have to admit I have lost track of what is actually on the mill right now.
10:46 AM Tom_L: easy to do
10:47 AM roguish[m]: I put in a new ssd, and did a new install, and just can't recall now, exactly what it is.
10:48 AM roguish[m]: It did throw an error about the boot partition being near full. there are like 7 or 8 partitions.... crazy.
10:49 AM roguish[m]: I booted off a different ssd, and used gparted to expand a couple of partitions.
10:49 AM roguish[m]: I sure wish I knew the best partition scheme for debian 11 and 12.
10:50 AM Tom_L: i put everything on one... whatever the default install wants
10:50 AM Tom_L: and keep a ssd for each install
10:50 AM Tom_L: but mine are all for testing in case i need to redo one
10:51 AM roguish[m]: I've looked it up, and of course everyone, everywhere has a different idea.
10:52 AM travis_farmer[m]: i have one production hard drive, and one experiment drive.
10:53 AM roguish[m]: think I'm going to ask seb and pere what they like in partitioning......
10:53 AM Loetmichel: travis_farmer[m]: seperately powered fans are usually not as loud. The ones that sit on the same shaft as the collet are though, especially when on full RPM.
10:54 AM travis_farmer[m]: Loetmichel: ok, thanks. this is what i am hoping to be able to get.
10:54 AM Tom_L: i have plenty of spare ssd
10:54 AM travis_farmer[m]: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091CM4JJ7/
10:54 AM Loetmichel: There is another reason why directly air cooled spindles are bad though: they are notorious for clogging the heatsink fins with chips they suck in from the milling.
10:55 AM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i hope to have a good vacuum system to take care of that
10:56 AM Loetmichel: if you can: see if there is a chance to have a fine mesh over the air intake of the spindle
10:57 AM Loetmichel: especially if you mill lots of wood/plastic/other light materials into "dust" basically
10:58 AM Loetmichel: Its easier to periodically clean the filter than dismantle the spindle and clean the fins inside
10:58 AM travis_farmer[m]: thanks, good idea :-)
11:03 AM roycroft: this is exactly why i chose a water-cooled spindle for my router table
11:03 AM roycroft: imagine all the problems with an air-cooled spindle, and then put the spindle below the source of the swarf/dust
11:04 AM roycroft: you get all the negatives, compounded by gravity
01:16 PM roycroft: well, i'm almost done with work for the day, and i see the icicles are starting to melt, so it will probably be safe to go outside in a bit
01:17 PM travis_farmer[m]: wind is picking up here, quite a bit
01:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Disks#Designing_a_partition_scheme
01:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the Debian installers will do all sorts of crazy partitioning that according to the specs should not even work
01:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://wiki.debian.org/Partition maybe this lack of info is why Debian gets drives so mucked up
01:24 PM roycroft: i do my own partitioning
01:24 PM roguish[m]: CaptHindsight: thanks, i'll check it out.
01:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: can you help him then?
01:27 PM roguish[m]: I pretty much got it. just did a bullseye 11.6 install. during install, I chose the 2nd option, which separates /home
01:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it might magically work
01:28 PM JT-Woodshop: the one thing I know about gentoo is if you try and boot from the livecd it will trash any os on the pc
01:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Woodshop: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/47699-gentoo#259923
01:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he's trying to make a LCNC Gentoo installer as simple as possible for noobs
01:33 PM JT-Woodshop: CaptHindsight[m], missed his reply
01:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: huh
01:35 PM JT-Woodshop: NTULINUX
01:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I tried sending you his responses but maybe the bridge from matrix has issues
01:37 PM JT-Woodshop: I think I forgot to check the notifications thing
01:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not every message makes it across the bridge
01:39 PM travis_farmer[m]: gotta fire the bridge troll ;-)
01:39 PM XXCoder: think turboss been too busy
01:40 PM travis_farmer[m]: not blaming him, just making a joke...
01:40 PM XXCoder: man spam at reddits is annoying
01:43 PM roycroft: perhaps it would be simpler to just not use gentoo :)
01:49 PM travis_farmer[m]: debating on setting up a GoFundMe to get a new spindle/vfd... (kidding, but it would be nice) ;-)
01:56 PM roycroft: it's up to 1 degree now!
01:56 PM roycroft: the melting should really take off
01:57 PM roycroft: and it's supposed to get up to 11 later on today
01:57 PM roycroft: holy moly - 46mm of rain on monday
02:07 PM * roycroft will have to spend boxing day making boats out of his boxes
02:07 PM travis_farmer[m]: warm up here, with rain wind, and the driveway is full of slush, just waiting to freeze up and be a PITA to drive over...
02:07 PM roycroft: it's going to be unseasonably warm here for the next week
02:07 PM roycroft: but very, very wet
02:07 PM travis_farmer[m]: send some of that up to the north-east... we have a cold snap coming tonight
02:07 PM XXCoder: yeah around a week of solid rain
02:07 PM roycroft: but i'm done with work until monday
02:07 PM roycroft: so that's good :)
02:21 PM roycroft: so our board president's cell phone is out of service, and our attorney's cell phone is out of service
02:21 PM roycroft: and i need to speak with both of them about 2 hours ago
02:22 PM * roycroft may have to make a decision on his own that he does not want to make on his own
02:44 PM unterhaus: starting to worry, areas all around us are losing power due do downed lines
02:47 PM travis_farmer[m]: 3748 people in just my county, without power! i have a generator, if i lose power. but once the propane is gone, that's it until the filling station opens on monday (or tuesday)
02:50 PM XXCoder: plenty ice here
02:53 PM snakedLX is now known as snaked
03:06 PM Bleepshop: It's almost tropical here compared to last night. 28F now, 0F last night.
03:07 PM Bleepshop: unclouded: We're lucky. The power co-op has been on a crash program to trim any trees that would put lines at risk.
03:09 PM XXCoder: tomorrow and rest of week will be around 50s F here lol
03:09 PM JT-Woodshop: we only made it to 10°F today
03:09 PM XXCoder: one of hottest dec here I think
03:10 PM unterhaus: the power company said they trimmed all the trees that could cause problems, but high winds can blow down the wires without help
03:11 PM XXCoder: yeah only way to fix THAT is to chop all risk trees but that wont happen. good lol
03:11 PM unterhaus: it's going to be below freezing until wednesday
03:12 PM unterhaus: It looks like the forecast isn't quite as bad as before, low of -1F
03:13 PM unterhaus: wind sounds worse than it is, only 10mph gusts
03:13 PM unterhaus: balmy tropical breeze
03:13 PM travis_farmer[m]: 40 - 50 MPH gusts here
03:13 PM Tom_L: JT-Woodshop, whoppin 13 here
03:14 PM JT-Woodshop: we were supposed to get to 13 but never made it
03:14 PM Tom_L: travis_farmer[m], we had the wind yesterday
03:14 PM JT-Woodshop: got 3-4 inches of snow and high winds yesterday
03:14 PM Tom_L: we had 2 'squall' warnings issued here yesterday
03:14 PM * JT-Woodshop wanders over to the machine shop to get his Friday beer
03:15 PM XXCoder: today theres lots ice lol but wont last long due to constant rains for days
03:15 PM Tom_L: i have never heard of that here and i've been here quite a while
03:15 PM Tom_L: i've heard of it around the great lakes but that's about it
03:20 PM unterhaus: When I lived in Wisconsin, there was one 30 day stretch where it never got above 0F
03:21 PM XXCoder: man watching make it extreme and I cantg figure what theyre making
03:21 PM XXCoder: I know they say it right on video title but yeah
03:23 PM unterhaus: there was a very solid thump outside and I'm askeerd to go look at what might have made it
03:25 PM unterhaus: well, the trees are still there
03:25 PM XXCoder: glad they thought about safety too. I was wondering on spinning rod lol
03:25 PM Tom_L: probably a small branch
03:25 PM Tom_L: they can make alot more noise than you think
03:26 PM Tom_L: i cleared a few problem ones out this fall before the cold hit
03:26 PM unterhaus: when I scroll down to actually see what's in this picture, it goes black https://imgur.com/a/V3oppFu
03:27 PM Tom_L: that could be a ff thing. i've had it happen
03:27 PM Tom_L: i can see it
03:28 PM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/oCFfvmREacA
03:28 PM Tom_L: https://i.imgur.com/pfgB4kW.jpeg
03:28 PM XXCoder: interesting resylt
03:28 PM Tom_L: how about now?
03:28 PM Tom_L: unterhaus,
03:29 PM unterhaus: I did cntrl mousewheel and make the picture smaller and it shows. Chrome on winders
03:29 PM Tom_L: sometimes if you find the actuall pic it will show
03:33 PM JT-Woodshop: at least it might be a tad warmer Sunday... soaking turkey breast in brine overnight then smoking and glazing
03:34 PM Tom_L: nice
03:34 PM JT-Woodshop: I was really surprised how juicy and tasty the first one was
03:45 PM unterhaus: some friends moved out up on a nearby mountain and they don't have power
03:45 PM unterhaus: but they do have their old house in civilization if they can get to it
03:46 PM * JT-Woodshop hugs the 3 phase diesel generator
03:49 PM Tom_L: haven't had to worry about that for a while but the gen is all serviced and ready
03:49 PM travis_farmer[m]: no diesel gen here... but i have a 15KW standby :-)
03:50 PM Tom_L: JT-Woodshop, does the diesel gel in this weather?
03:50 PM JT-Woodshop: I've never seen it do that
03:51 PM Tom_L: The diesel fuel in your fuel tank will become like gel at a temperature of 15ºF or -9.5ºC and you will have trouble starting your engine
03:51 PM JT-Woodshop: it's the same diesel that came in the generator when I bought it... still waiting to run it down far enough to change the sight glass on the trailer tank
03:51 PM Tom_L: heh
03:51 PM travis_farmer[m]: i have seen diesel gel... in the school buses, around -20F i think...
03:52 PM JT-Woodshop: if it wasn't so cold I'd go look...
03:52 PM travis_farmer[m]: gel clogs the filters
03:52 PM Tom_L: paraffin
03:52 PM travis_farmer[m]: yup
03:53 PM Tom_L: if it wasn't so cold you wouldn't need to look :)
03:53 PM travis_farmer[m]: and IIRC, the gel won't melt once it gells
03:54 PM Tom_L: they must use additives or you would see more semis along side the road
03:55 PM travis_farmer[m]: K1 fuel will not gell, IIRC
03:55 PM JT-Woodshop: I think I put something in my diesel years ago when I bought it
03:55 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, there is some enzyme treatment
03:56 PM Tom_L: JT-Woodshop, any changes worth building debs over?
03:56 PM JT-Woodshop: no
04:08 PM acer is now known as _unreal_
04:08 PM _unreal_: sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet just got my Orange pi
04:08 PM _unreal_: got my orange PI from aliexpress 16 gig
04:08 PM XXCoder: the 5 one?
04:09 PM _unreal_: 16gig ram
04:10 PM _unreal_: OPI6 16GIG
04:10 PM _unreal_: OPI5 16GIG
04:10 PM XXCoder: ah so it is 5. ok
04:11 PM XXCoder: lots xmas videos
04:11 PM _unreal_: Dont know what I want to do with it. but I could not pass on the deal. got it for $80
04:12 PM travis_farmer[m]: i have a Pumpkin Pi, but that is for X-Mas ;-)
04:12 PM _unreal_: I thought it was going to come with a heat sync though?
04:20 PM XXCoder: not bad really. it would be usable as backup pc than rpi4 thats for sure
04:20 PM XXCoder: I had to use rpi4 for over a month and that wasnt fun
04:27 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Fish one out of the aluminum scrap bin and make it fit? ;D
04:30 PM * Bleepshop is reading through the various 7i96s setup guides.
04:31 PM JT-Woodshop: are you making some special configuration?
04:32 PM * JT-Woodshop starts working his way back to the house
04:45 PM travis_farmer[m]: Beef Stew on the stove, just becoming ready. :-) time to sign off.
04:54 PM * Bleep-CNC has latency-histogram running and used it to spawn 6 instances of glxgears.
04:54 PM Bleep-CNC: What kind of numbers am I looking for in which spots?
04:55 PM Plaid: Are you using a mesa card or not (changes what we say)?
04:56 PM Bleep-CNC: I will be but it's currently disconnected.
04:57 PM Plaid: I don't know the suggessted number, but it's much less touchy with the mesa card, since the mesa card does most of the tight timing work. But I know the people smarter then me need to know if you're using a mesa card :P
04:59 PM JT-Cave: Bleep-CNC, do latency-histogram --nobase
04:59 PM Plaid: is the servo thread the slow thread, and the base thread is the fast thread?
05:00 PM Plaid: Working on learning on the magic of the internals ;p
05:01 PM Bleep-CNC: JT-Cave: Still showing both panels.
05:03 PM Bleep-CNC: There it went. I was missing a -
05:04 PM Bleep-CNC: is 7 instances of glxgears considered abusive?
05:04 PM JT-Cave: I guess, I don't usually run anything
05:04 PM Plaid: Open a browser and watch a video of a fireeplace (does a lot of screen refresh)
05:04 PM JT-Cave: if that's what you do while milling...
05:04 PM Plaid: Something pcw pointed out
05:06 PM Bleep-CNC: I'm 3 minutes in with a min of -59.7, sdev -3.0 and max is 65.76.
05:06 PM JT-Cave: I usually run it for an hour or more
05:07 PM JT-Cave: just to make sure there is not some system issue that pops up once an hour
05:08 PM JT-Cave: I should add my latency-histogram launcher to linuxcnc...
05:08 PM Bleep-CNC: OK, I'll let it sit here and run. All the glxgears may draw enough power to warm it up by a tenth of a degree or so in here. LOL
05:08 PM JT-Cave: never did get the coops above freezing today
05:08 PM Plaid: Long ago, I used to heat my apartment during the winter mining bitcoins
05:09 PM JT-Cave: now the low tonight is 3°F
05:09 PM Bleep-CNC: JT-Cave: I biult a heater out of paving stones, gorilla glue and a 150W heatlamp for ours.
05:10 PM JT-Cave: I have two oil filled heaters in Coop Deux set on 900w and two 250w red heat lamps in Coop Uno
05:11 PM Bleep-CNC: The Gorilla Glue that looks like honey gets obscenely grabby if you mist both surfaces with water.
05:11 PM JT-Cave: gives each one about 20°F rise in temperature
05:12 PM JT-Cave: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/calling-any-one-from-missouri.73271/page-1609
05:13 PM * JT-Cave wanders back to mesact2
05:14 PM XXCoder: hah https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/343070336084082708/1055986648892055602/f917cb60ce8e0ee9.png
05:18 PM Plaid: Since you seem like have-chicken people, I have an odd question. I have a friend that lives on acerage that a) has wanted chickens, and b) has a sign "We accept cash or chickens" at his business. I don't want to actually give him live animals, but does someplace like Tractor Supply sell chicks? I could get him a gift-card :P
05:20 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: Yes. Tractor Supply and Big-R both stock them in hte spring.
05:20 PM JT-Cave: yes, in season tractor supply sells chicks
05:21 PM JT-Cave: sometimes into the late fall for meat birds
05:21 PM Bleepshop: Along with ducklings and whatever you call baby turkeys.
05:21 PM JT-Cave: junior poopers
05:22 PM Plaid: Okay, then how much is a chicken worth? Just to improve my meme. So I know how many "chickens" worth of supplys I'm getting him or something :P
05:23 PM Plaid: I'm totally a city person, so livestock is a totally foreign concept to me :P
05:24 PM JT-Cave: baby chicks are a few dollars depending on the breed
05:24 PM JT-Cave: https://www.cacklehatchery.com/
05:24 PM Plaid: And what's a "chicken" worth?
05:24 PM JT-Cave: that's where I got my chicks
05:24 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: Chicks were $4-$6 depending on the breed here with ducks and turkeys being a litlle more.
05:25 PM JT-Cave: depends on the age and breed
05:25 PM CloudEvil: And bulk.
05:25 PM CloudEvil: In bulk, baby chickens cost less than rotisserie ones.
05:25 PM Plaid: Like.. small quantity. I want to get him a digital chicken or two :P
05:25 PM Bleepshop: Right after Easter is a good time to get cheap chicks.
05:26 PM * JT-Cave is done getting chicks... when this bunch is gone it's game over
05:26 PM CloudEvil: Is'nt digital chicken basically tamagauchi?
05:26 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: a $50 card will get 4-6 + feed for a while.
05:26 PM CloudEvil: Or, pokemon alternatively.
05:27 PM Plaid: There ya go. That's the info I needed :P
05:27 PM Bleepshop: CloudEvil: Tastes like ozone? LOL
05:27 PM JT-Cave: yeah feed is expensive now
05:27 PM Plaid: And I'm sure that if he doesn't actually want to get chickens, he can get something else he needs for $50 at TSC...
05:28 PM JT-Cave: a 40 pound bag of 16% layer feed it $21
05:28 PM Bleepshop: Like chicken feed for the ones he has.
05:29 PM Bleepshop: JT-Cave: You're getting screwed. I''m paying <$17 bag for good layer feed.
05:29 PM JT-Cave: what brand?
05:31 PM Bleepshop: Country companion IIRC. I know hte chickens are fat and happy.
05:33 PM JT-Cave: I use Nutrena but Country Lane is $13
05:33 PM Plaid: Yeah, I can get him 5 chickens (*Some assembly required)
05:33 PM Bleepshop: Had to switch to the crumbles instead of pellets after getting several bags of pellets that were beat to death in shipping and they didn't like the pellets after that. LOL
05:34 PM JT-Cave: a guy at a food plant told me the cheaper brands have a lot of filler
05:34 PM JT-Cave: I've always used crumbles... I take the powder and mix with water to make a mash and they think it's a special treat :)
05:36 PM JT-Cave: and as expected UPS didn't deliver today due to the snow...
05:36 PM * JT-Cave wanders upstairs to start the taco meat
05:43 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, working on a mesact2?
05:58 PM Bleepshop: Tom_L: I'm doing testing on hte machine I want to hook my 7i96s to.
06:00 PM Bleep-CNC: >3500 seconds and I'm at -70, 2.9 70.
06:01 PM Bleepshop: That's latency-histogram --nobase and 7 glxgears.
06:08 PM Tom_L: screenshot it
06:10 PM Bleepshop: Got it. Machine is an i3 with all the virtualization crap turned off.
06:12 PM Bleep-CNC: https://imgur.com/a/dGn099S
06:14 PM Tom_L: not the greatest
06:14 PM Bleepshop: It'll be driving a 7i96s.
06:23 PM _unreal_: ? wouldnt a car work better
06:23 PM _unreal_: I'd drive a car or truck rather then a 7i96... :) just saying
06:25 PM _unreal_: oh so you know that STOCK play I was talking about. It didnt "not" happen but rather. Finra turned off the forced shorts closing, witch is now turning into many MANY MANY law suits. my MMTLP play is now going to be WAY WAY WAY bigger an illegal action then FTX... estimated around 300 billion right now LOL
06:25 PM _unreal_: I cant wait to see the fall out.
06:25 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: What do you want? I build wierd shit. LOL
06:26 PM _unreal_: Bleepshop, I have no idea what I want to do with this orange PI 5
06:26 PM XXCoder: turn it into lcnc pc lol
06:26 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: My birthday is 2 days after Xmas. Just saying. LMAO
06:27 PM XXCoder: test latency and such with realtime
06:27 PM _unreal_: I just ordered an amazon general heat sink kit
06:28 PM _unreal_: There is no heatsinks designed for it so far as I can tell
06:28 PM _unreal_: If ther is I have yet to find one
06:28 PM _unreal_: An OPI5 heatsink
06:28 PM XXCoder: I wonder if it just runs that cool
06:29 PM _unreal_: doubt it
06:34 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, https://jamesachambers.com/orange-pi-5-review/
06:35 PM XXCoder: interesting
06:36 PM XXCoder: only lost on raytracing. who cares on those on single boards?
06:37 PM XXCoder: only negative I wonder is no wifi
06:43 PM acer: well SOB no wifi didnt notice that
06:43 PM acer: oh well
06:43 PM acer: ok I just found a real heat sink kit
06:43 PM acer: not sure I like the main cpu heat sink though seems rather small?
06:44 PM acer: short
06:44 PM acer: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B2CP1G23?psc=1&smid=A3OWUO30LQJ1NE&linkCode=sl1&tag=codemallet-20&linkId=ef8f6ba8311c04cb3979a3f1f3fa80f0&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl
06:44 PM _unreal_ is now known as Guest9533
06:45 PM acer is now known as _unreal_
06:46 PM _unreal_: what do you think?
06:47 PM _unreal_: or should I go with this? https://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-Heatsink-Conductive-Adhesive-Aluminum/dp/B082RWXFR2/ref=pd_ybh_a_sccl_2/130-5520618-1185468?pd_rd_w=mN4mX&content-id=amzn1.sym.67f8cf21-ade4-4299-b433-69e404eeecf1&pf_rd_p=67f8cf21-ade4-4299-b433-69e404eeecf1&pf_rd_r=0X46N87J6A66K2AJ2AC6&pd_rd_wg=oRHSV&pd_rd_r=ce550ce3-b5f3-4122-aeee-e582c6a25630&pd_rd_i=B082RWXFR2&psc=1
06:47 PM XXCoder: alum is not quite as good as copper but then former probably is just alum coated on copper
06:48 PM _unreal_: look at the size of the fins though. the copper ones are stupid short.
06:48 PM _unreal_: The real kit.
06:50 PM _unreal_: I like the idea of having all the fitted heat sinks BUT I dont like the idea of such tiny fins mainly on the main heatsink
06:54 PM _unreal_: ! theres breaking news. Emails and txt between Pelosi and her staff directing and planning the Jan 6th riot has just been exposed.
06:54 PM _unreal_: oh this is huge
06:55 PM Tom_L: and not for here
07:10 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Indeed, No politics or papistry. Violators will Be Prosituted.
07:11 PM Bleepshop: I'm about to make a dozen of thos signs for the property line. LOL
07:32 PM * roycroft laughs
08:11 PM Bleep-CNC: OK. Here's the hisogram after > 3 hours. https://imgur.com/a/wc4WdnR
08:33 PM Plaid: Humm. I recently purchased an AMT112Q encoder, set to 1000ppr, and since it's a Q, it uses differential signaling. I power it up, and put it on an ocilliscope, and it looks just like I expect. A, B, -A, -B are all nice and stable when the motor isn't in motion. I connect it to my mesa card (through wiring I mostly know is correct, but with a different encoder) and the A & B seem to be randomly toggling on and of
08:33 PM Plaid: D aren't powered, so I don't think it's a noise problem. I can't put the o-scope on it while it's on the machine.
08:33 PM Plaid: It's not my o-scope, so I can't bring it to my machine.
08:34 PM Plaid: the o-scope shows a nice, clean 5v or 0v signal, the inverted signal is a nice clean 5v 0v signal.
08:35 PM Plaid: Is there anything like amp-draw or resistance or something that could be screwing it up
08:35 PM Plaid: https://www.cuidevices.com/product/resource/amt11.pdf for the data sheet for the encoder
08:36 PM Plaid: Oh, plugged into a 7i77 card
08:44 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: 5V encoder?
08:46 PM Bleepshop: 2 leds and 2 1k resistors. Wire it + resistor1 LED1 tap LED2 resistor2 -
08:46 PM Bleepshop: Connect + and - to your 5V rails and probe with the tap. One LED will light for Low the other for High.
09:41 PM Bleepshop: Wow! That made a freaking difference. 'isolcpus=1 acpi_irq_nobalance noirqbalance' in grub and then 'taskset -c 1 latency-histogram --nobase' to stuff it on core 2of2 via ssh -X and i've got -29/1.9/32.8
09:52 PM Plaid: Bleepshop: Yep, modern computers randomly steal processor time
09:53 PM Plaid: Bleepshop: And yes. But I know it's coming out of the encoder wrong. I measure the voltage between +A and -A, and it's not 5v, but on the o-scope, when it was stable, it was showing a difference of 5v.
09:53 PM Bleepshop: I'm at 900+ seconds, -54/2/47
09:54 PM Plaid: I was wondering maybe the encoder isn't able to drive the signal well enough or something.
09:55 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: I thought A/A_, B/B_ and Z/Z_ were all seperate signals.
09:56 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: Page 3 https://www.baumer.com/medias/__secure__/Baumer_HOG60_DS_EN.pdf?mediaPK=8801026015262
09:57 PM Plaid: Yeah, they are. But you can measure A+ to A- to get the singal with noise canceling
09:57 PM Bleepshop: You want A/B/Z or A_/B_/Z_ but not both unless you're being really redundant IIRC.
09:58 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: That's' what Schmidt triggers are for. Or don't they teach you kids TTL logic amymore? LOL
09:59 PM Plaid: I just know most encoders use quadature encoding to deal with all the transmission noise
10:00 PM Plaid: the default setting for the 7i77 is to use that
10:01 PM Plaid: but I should check ground to +A and ground to -A as well. It'll tell me if it's just one of the wires acting up, or both
10:05 PM Plaid: Also realize this is a high noise environment. I have rapidly changing 80v wiring running near (though I try to keep it seperate) from my encoder wires.
10:16 PM pcw--home: You should get at least 2V (or -2V in the other state) from /A to A
10:17 PM pcw--home: same for B,/B Z,/Z
10:17 PM Plaid: On the o-scope, not connected to the mesa card, it's showing a clean 5v diff. Connected to my mesa card, showing 2-ish volts.
10:18 PM pcw--home: 2V should be fine (differential sensitivity is 200 mV)
10:18 PM Plaid: I'm thinking I have some bad wiring somewhere, trying to figure out where though
10:18 PM pcw--home: 2-3V differential is typical
10:19 PM Plaid: At my house (at the machine) I only have a multi-meter. I tested the encoder on the o-scope, on it's own, on a bench at the local hackerspace.
10:19 PM pcw--home: (because of the termination + normal TTL line drivers)
10:20 PM Plaid: ...Hadn't considered that.
10:20 PM pcw--home: do the encoders count correctly?
10:21 PM Plaid: On the bench, putting the o-scope on the leads it looks perfect. 0v & 5v. Changes only when I rotate the encoder.
10:22 PM Plaid: I plug it into the mesa card, and it shows the A&B channels changing randomly.
10:24 PM pcw--home: sounds like either a wiring error of you have a big EMI issue (so you exceed the +- 7V common mode range of the line receivers)
10:24 PM Plaid: Yeah, trying to figure out what the wiring error could be. I've checked it a dozen times. And part of taking it to the o-scope was to check my wiring
10:25 PM pcw--home: does the issue go away if you disable the motor drives?
10:25 PM Bleepshop: pcw--home! I've been waiting to trap, Er talk to you. ;D
10:25 PM Plaid: pcw: motor drivers are disabled.
10:26 PM pcw--home: what hal pins are you looking at?
10:26 PM Bleepshop: pcw--home: Got my 7i96s, got a stable power supply, been flogging various machines trying to find one with decent latency.
10:27 PM Plaid: hm2_7i96s.0.encoder.00.input-a input-b and input-index
10:27 PM pcw--home: Is the encoder filter enabled?
10:28 PM Bleepshop: Question for hte gurus at large. Could it be that the beater PC with a parallel port I was running software stepping on is a better choice than an i3-2120?
10:28 PM Plaid: and 00 is the correct filter is true
10:30 PM pcw--home: Bleepshop: For good Ethernet latency, usually a faster CPU is better
10:31 PM Bleepshop: That was my thought. But every machine I've got here is apparently a total toad. LOL
10:32 PM pcw--home: Plaid: you may need a scope to find out whats wrong.
10:33 PM Bleepshop: CaptHindsight[m]: I pointed him at a simple logic probe, circa 1978.
10:33 PM pcw--home: Bleepshop: what did you try? latency only needs to be good enough to not drop time out packets
10:34 PM pcw--home: (default time out is 80% of the servo thread period)
10:34 PM Bleepshop: pcw--home: Here's a histogram. https://imgur.com/a/wc4WdnR
10:35 PM pcw--home: That's less important than Ethernet latency
10:36 PM pcw--home: also if you have a Intel Ethernet chip you need to disable "irq coalescing" (man hm2_eth)
10:38 PM Bleepshop: Intel on Pcie and RealTek on the mobo.
10:38 PM Tom_L: is the timing on the efinix the same/similar to what you got with xilinx?
10:40 PM Plaid: pcw--home: The encoder says it's able to supply 25ma... is that enough?
10:42 PM pcw--home: Yes
10:43 PM pcw--home: that should give about 3V across the 120 Ohm termination
10:43 PM Plaid: Which is pretty close to what I'm showing with my DMM
10:45 PM Plaid: As a theory question... to test it on the bench, should I be connecting A+ to A- via a 120 ohm resistor, to more closely simulate the mesa circut? I was just doing it with the circut n/c.
10:48 PM pcw--home: My guess is tha you have a EMI or grounding issue so you have more than +-7V common mode noise
10:50 PM pcw--home: You can attempt to filter out the noise by increasing the filter time constant, but the cause should be determined
10:50 PM Plaid: What's odd is this is the only encoder doing this. The other two are working as expected
10:50 PM pcw--home: maybe bad or bad power connection (check 5V at encoder)
10:51 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: Using shielded cable? Mayby a shield connection failed.
10:51 PM pcw--home: is the encoder connected to the motor?
10:52 PM Plaid: Yes, it's mounted on the motor, but it's an external one that I recently put on it, to replace the existing one that's broken. It's a different one then the stock one.
10:53 PM pcw--home: Tom_L: yes, Efinix C4 grade chips are similar to Spartan6 timing wise
10:58 PM Plaid: pcw--home: fyi, I'm converting an old machine. I found out that one of the encoders was acting up, and verified that it was acting up on an o-scope, so I ordered the AMT11 encoder as a replacement.
11:00 PM Plaid: the stock encoders work as expected. But the AMT11, even with the motor sitting stationary, servo amps off, it's indicating motion
11:01 PM pcw--home: maybe it just dithers... what do the counts do?
11:02 PM Plaid: all over the place, it slowly drifts out of position. But it doesn't dither on the bench when using an o-scope
11:03 PM pcw--home: Well, what about Bleepshops logic analyser (a LED and a resistor across A,/A for example)
11:04 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: Does it do it if you disconnect the encoder from the motor but leave the wiring connected?
11:04 PM Plaid: Might be my next step, either that or disassmble a lot of the controller cards, verify I can replicate the issue outside of the cabinet, and haul it all to the hackerspace
11:05 PM Plaid: I can't remove the encoder from the motor easily, now that it's installed.
11:06 PM Bleepshop: Other thing I'd try is just add a temporary ground lead out to the encoder shield.
11:06 PM Plaid: Tried that one too
11:07 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: Sacrifice a rubber chicken? ;D
11:08 PM Plaid: I'm not sure if I have the correct words to say over such a situation. I only have an associates, I think that teach that in the BS EE classes.
11:09 PM Plaid: And my degree is in comp sci. No EE would ever teach a comp sci person the true magic of EE
11:10 PM Bleepshop: pcw--home: Here's the ancient beast I resurrected. It's so old that there's no serial # and the company can't be sure when it was built. Had all the electronics fried when I got it along with a layer of rust on the ways. https://imgur.com/a/6iGsfPi
11:11 PM pcw--home: Wow, when was that made?
11:13 PM Bleepshop: I'ts from the late 90s if I'm right. Entire table top is slabs of 10mm aluminum plate. It now has DM542As, 48V PSUs and is about to get a full rebuild to incorporate the 7i96.
11:15 PM Bleepshop: That 3.5HP Porter Cable is gone and has been replaced with a Huanyang 2.2kw watercooled spindle and VFD.
11:17 PM Bleepshop: I need to find a 1200kva 220v>110v transformer for the 110v rail so I can get rid of the multiple power feeds to the table.
11:21 PM Bleepshop: And I've got to tell you that the spindle was the best money I have spent on preserving what little sanity I have left. Dead quiet and hellacious torque down to 60RPM.
11:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://imgur.com/gallery/LYMVygb
11:30 PM Bleepshop: CaptHindsight[m]: Showoff! Throw a towel over it. ;D
11:33 PM Bleepshop: Plaid: Can you parallel in a different cable for that encoder? Just run a temp across the gantry?
11:43 PM Bleepshop: Damn there's an order of magnitude change running directly vs running vi ssh. -85/2/85 direct and -8/.5/8 via ssh.
11:52 PM Bleepshop: I am getting really tempted to build this thing headless and use an RPi-3B as a thin client to give it a display.