#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 17 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:37 AM Plaid1: When using mb2hal, how do you see the error log?
01:31 AM sensille: i'm trying to use mb2hal. testing in halrun shows that it does not become ready, but the man page states to use loadusr -W
01:32 AM sensille: how does a module signal that it is ready?
01:43 AM sensille: oh. looks like it was just a mismatch on the name in -Wn
03:12 AM jpa-: sensille: in case you are still interested, the answer to question: each component signals that it is ready by calling hal_ready(), and the -Wn waits for a HAL component with specified name to be ready
03:15 AM sensille: jpa-: thanks. after i found the hal_ready in the source it was obvious that i just used the wrong name :-/
03:53 AM sensille: wow. i can turn the spindle on from axis. step by step
03:54 AM travis-farmer is now known as travis_farmer
04:14 AM Tom_L: morning
04:14 AM travis_farmer: G'Morning
04:31 AM sensille: DEFAULT_SPINDLE_SPEED in [DISPLAY] does not seem to work for me (axis)
04:43 AM sensille: and another problem: i try to turn off the spindle in shutdown.hal, but it does nothing. i suspect it exits before mb2hal can transfer the values to the vfd
04:55 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:02 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:20 AM travis-farmer: not sure how long my power and internet will last today... tree limbs are very heavy with snow, and it is still snowing... had a few light flickers already. hope no limbs fell on my standby generator...
05:30 AM CloudEvil: Good luck.
05:30 AM CloudEvil: Remember to print out how to make an igloo
05:31 AM travis-farmer: i hope i don't need to make an igloo ;-)
06:13 AM travis-farmer: well heck... the town snow-plow made a 3 foot high pile at the end of the driveway... :-( glad the snowblower is ready
06:32 AM mrec_: we have 23°C during the day
06:41 AM travis-farmer: 15 inches of snow so far, and snow is predicted for the rest of the day...
06:51 AM JT-Cave: keep that stuff to yourself lol
06:51 AM travis-farmer: i can't talk about it? :-(
06:52 AM JT-Cave: talk all you want just keep that snow up there
06:52 AM travis-farmer: oh, ok lol
06:53 AM JT-Cave: we might get a bit of snow on Monday
06:53 AM travis-farmer: we are expected to get more thursday or friday i think
07:15 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:38 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:41 AM travis-farmer: internet flickering, JT ?
07:46 AM JT-Cave: rebooting to different kernels
07:47 AM travis-farmer: oh, ok. just saw you leaving and coming back several times :-)
08:04 AM sensille: any ideas how to solve the vfd shutdown problem? "waitusr mb2hal" at the end of shutdown.hal helps, but then of course it doesn't terminate anymore
08:06 AM travis-farmer: maybe if your VFD has a configurable Estop input, you can connect it to an output on your IO board so when the machine is enabled, so is the VFD. and when the machine shuts down, the enable will be lost and disable the VFD.
08:07 AM sensille: i could do that as a failsafe. but i'd also like to switch spindle control back to the builtin panel on shutdown
08:08 AM sensille: i think the software could at least try to leave an orderly state at shutdown
08:14 AM sensille: my TODO list is only getting longer instead of shorter ...
08:18 AM sensille: does it make sense that mb2hal sends the values over and over instead of just on changes?
08:22 AM Tom_L: sensille, did you try DEFAULT_SPINDLE_0_SPEED
08:23 AM Tom_L: since multiple spindles were introduced
08:23 AM * sensille tries
08:23 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/config/ini-config.html#_display_section
08:24 AM Tom_L: that also says QTVCP only
08:24 AM Tom_L: ...who knows
08:24 AM sensille: oh, that's a different documentation than google took me to :-(
08:25 AM Tom_L: it's 2.8
08:26 AM Tom_L: and if that works, remember the MIN & MAX ones with a number too
08:29 AM sensille: i feel stupid now. without the _0_ works after all. i might just have gotten confused by rpm vs. rps
08:30 AM Tom_L: but _now_ you will never forget it
08:32 AM sensille: there's even a spindle_increment now, but Qtvcp only too
08:32 AM Tom_L: axis is old code
08:33 AM Tom_L: probably one of the first if not the first GUI
08:34 AM sensille: it is just what stepconf configured. i never questioned it and got used to it
08:34 AM sensille: so Qtvcp?
08:35 AM Tom_L: it's the _old_ QTPYVCP ... sorta
08:35 AM Tom_L: QT virtual control pannel
08:36 AM Tom_L: (i think)
08:37 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, time to build again?
08:42 AM sensille: uuuuuh that looks ... different
08:42 AM Tom_L: what does?
08:44 AM JT-Cave: if you want to it's just some putzing around with the gpio page
08:44 AM Tom_L: may wait a day or so.. who knows you may change your mind again :)
08:44 AM sensille: qtvcp vs. axis
08:44 AM JT-Cave: still trying to finger out how I want to handle the gpio
08:45 AM JT-Cave: probably change my mind several times... I just pushed in case I do something stupid and trash this pc again
08:45 AM Tom_L: you've had your share of pc issues lately
08:47 AM JT-Cave: yep like wtf is going on
08:50 AM JT-Cave: but the good thing is I can install debian with my eyes closed now
08:50 AM Tom_L: ..probably any version :)
08:50 AM Tom_L: btw 14 has been named
08:51 AM Tom_L: 13 - Trixie, 14 - Forky
09:17 AM sensille: interesting, homing works in qtdefault, but not in qtdragon
09:55 AM * JT-Cave doesn't understand the fascination people have with gaudy guis
09:56 AM sensille: qtaxis works
09:58 AM JT-Cave: qt won't even run on debian 12
09:59 AM sensille: where i see it qt is seldom an improvement over wxwidgets
09:59 AM JT-Cave: which gui uses wxwidgets?
10:01 AM sensille: oops. tk?
10:02 AM sensille: gnuradio switched from wxwidgets to qt. it looks awful now
10:03 AM JT-Cave: I like PyQt5
10:03 AM JT-Cave: never cared for wxwidgets from a programmers point of view
10:04 AM * Tom_L hugs axis
10:05 AM sensille: i haven't done any gui programming for ages, so i have no idea how it looks for the programmer
10:32 AM roguish[m]: JT-Cave: ok, so, as I mentioned, it seems that my 7i80 just stopped seeing IO's..... no clue what might have happened. I wasn't messing with the wiring at alll.
10:33 AM Tom_L: roguish[m], what do you get with --readhmid?
10:33 AM roguish[m]: I had a linux problem. not linuxcnc. the /root partition filled up, and things got ugly
10:33 AM Tom_L: ahh
10:34 AM roguish[m]: Tom_L: yes. the board responds to mesaflash, and loads ok with linuxcnc.
10:34 AM roguish[m]: I got a new SSD and loaded everything anew. but still have the previous SSD and can boot to it.
10:35 AM roguish[m]: So linuxcnc seems to run, just does not see any IO's
10:36 AM Tom_L: how are you testing that?
10:37 AM roguish[m]: well, just watching pins and signals via halshow
10:37 AM Tom_L: odd
10:37 AM roguish[m]: and of course the relays don't fire, and switched don't work.
10:38 AM Tom_L: have you tried manual toggling?
10:38 AM roguish[m]: thoughts on any in place testing i could do?
10:38 AM Tom_L: from the cmd line
10:38 AM Tom_L: never run across that one .. yet
10:39 AM Tom_L: i forget where it's at but in one of those you can enter pins etc to twiddle
10:39 AM Tom_L: manually
10:40 AM roguish[m]: I am probably going to pull the boards out of the cabinet and bring them inside. I have similar test setup on my desk where I can work easier
10:40 AM Tom_L: what gui?
10:41 AM zephyr9900: roguish what about your I/O power supply?
10:42 AM roguish[m]: The IO's are all through a 7i33 and 7i37
10:42 AM Tom_L: you should see a change in hal watch anyway
10:42 AM roguish[m]: PS's test ok. putting out the correct voltages. have a 5v and 24v dc
10:43 AM roguish[m]: Tom_L: that's the point. I don't see any change via halshow,
10:43 AM roguish[m]: and switches and relays and shit don't work
10:43 AM roguish[m]: in or out
10:44 AM Tom_L: did you try twiddling a pin in the 'Test HAL Command' box?
10:44 AM Tom_L: (Axis)
10:44 AM Tom_L: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/halshow.html
10:45 AM roguish[m]: ah, I use qtDragon gui. but also have an axis config that works, or at least used to work.
10:45 AM Tom_L: that may help eliminate things
10:45 AM roguish[m]: ok, now i get the Test Hal. I have used it a lot.
10:46 AM roguish[m]: that's a good idea.
10:46 AM roguish[m]: bypasses the io boards.
10:46 AM Tom_L: and GUI
10:48 AM roguish[m]: yes. even easier now after hansu's work on halshow.
10:48 AM JT-Cave: you can also use the watch window to test inputs
10:48 AM travis_farmer: holy crap, i posted a youtube short, just for fun, of the snow before snowblowing the driveway... the dang thing got hundreds of views already!!! i mean, all the views of my other videos combined didn't get as many views as this dumb little short video!
10:48 AM roguish[m]: that's it
10:48 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i suggested that but he's using a different gui
10:48 AM JT-Cave: no need to run a gui
10:48 AM Tom_L: maybe can run that from cmd
10:48 AM JT-Cave: halrun
10:48 AM JT-Cave: loadrt hostmot2
10:48 AM JT-Cave: loadrt hm2_eth board_ip=10.10.10.10
10:48 AM roguish[m]: Tom_L: I can use axis. beside qtDragon can open halshow...
10:49 AM Tom_L: i've not tried since it's part of axis
10:49 AM JT-Cave: then in another terminal halshow
10:49 AM JT-Cave: In another terminal
10:49 AM JT-Cave: halcmd show all hm2
10:50 AM roguish[m]: I think I'm going to bring the boards indoors. it's frigid in my garage-shop.
10:50 AM roguish[m]: even with the propane heater..... i'm a wusss
10:50 AM JT-Cave: and in axis make sure the gpio outputs are set as outputs
10:52 AM roguish[m]: as i said, these are the exact same configs i've been using.
10:52 AM roguish[m]: JT-Cave: hey Mr. MesaUS. any stock?
10:52 AM JT-Cave: on?
10:52 AM roguish[m]: 7i80
10:52 AM Tom_L: he has 1 7i80 but he's hiding it
10:52 AM JT-Cave: lol
10:53 AM Tom_L: ( i know )
10:53 AM roguish[m]: JT-Cave: I may go over to Peter's and see if he can test it. he has lots of test software.
10:54 AM JT-Cave: that might be a good idea and if you do let us know what you found
10:54 AM roguish[m]: well beyond mesaflash.
10:54 AM roguish[m]: yeah, I'll definitely keep you and Tom up to date. it's really odd.
10:56 AM JT-Cave: I thought I saw somewhere that Peter said they had a 7i80hdt in the works...
10:56 AM * JT-Cave wanders out to the shop
11:10 AM Tom_L: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/47272-mesa-control-board-availability
11:10 AM Tom_L: 7I80HDT Artwork nearly done
11:10 AM Tom_L: 11/12/22
11:10 AM JT-Woodshop: that's where I saw it
11:12 AM Tom_L: cool
11:13 AM roguish[m]: JT-Woodshop: what is an HDT version???
11:13 AM Tom_L: the new fpga
11:14 AM Tom_L: probably with a few design changes
11:14 AM Tom_L: to acomodate the new chip's features
11:14 AM travis_farmer: just what i need, more 7i80 candy to drool over ;-)
11:23 AM Tom_L: roguish[m], ask him when you visit :)
12:39 PM JT-Cave: time for a nap
12:40 PM Tom_L: yup
03:07 PM JT-Shop_ is now known as JT-Shop
03:56 PM * travis_farmer has a new laptop (early X-Mas gift) and has JUST started loading stuff on it... it is much faster than the last one :-)
04:09 PM markgonz: hello! hope everyone is doing well
04:10 PM markgonz: I'm follwing JT guide on installing linuxcnc 2.9 on Debian 11
04:10 PM markgonz: however I am not able to download po4a deb
04:10 PM markgonz: appers as not found
04:11 PM markgonz: this is the guide https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/debian-11-emc.html
04:14 PM roycroft: $ apt-cache search po4a
04:14 PM roycroft: po4a - tools to ease the translation of documentation
04:15 PM roycroft: $ cat /etc/debian_version
04:15 PM roycroft: 11.3
04:15 PM roycroft: you may need to do an apt update
04:15 PM roycroft: or maybe it got removed in later releases of debian 11
04:15 PM roycroft: let me find a debian 11.5 machine
04:15 PM roycroft: i have not updated anything to 11.6 yet, as it just came out today
04:16 PM markgonz: ok I will check if I have it already
04:16 PM roycroft: it's gone in 11.5
04:16 PM roycroft: so look at the release notes for 11.4 and 11.5
04:16 PM roycroft: jt may need to update his build doc
04:17 PM roycroft: but all that said, not having po4a should not stop you from installing linuxcnc
04:17 PM markgonz: ok thanks for the info
04:20 PM markgonz: I have the 7i96s, I read that I need debian 10 or newer, so is there any diference between debian 11, 12, 13?
04:22 PM markgonz: I mean the 7i96s will work as well on all these?
04:25 PM roycroft: my opinion on this differs from that of many, if not most, i think
04:25 PM roycroft: a machine l
04:25 PM roycroft: running linuxcnc should not be connected to the internet, imo
04:25 PM roycroft: and if that's the case, then running the latest version of the os is not of much importance from a safety/security point of view
04:26 PM roycroft: running a really old version may be problematic, as newer versions of linuxcnc and its supporting software may require features of more current os releases
04:26 PM roycroft: it's almost never necessary nor desirable to run the latest, bleeding edge os for a control system like linuxcnc
04:27 PM roycroft: i therefore advise running debian 11 stable as the ideal os for linuxcnc right now, as that is the current, stable release of the os
04:27 PM roycroft: i would not run debian 12 on a production machine, as it's not been released yet
04:27 PM roycroft: debian 10 would be fine
04:27 PM roycroft: older than debain 10 might be problematic as described above
04:28 PM roycroft: if your goal is to make parts then what i advise above is what i consider best practice
04:29 PM roycroft: if your goal is to play with linuxcnc then use whatever you want - debian 12 might be fun to play with
04:36 PM roycroft: interesting
04:36 PM roycroft: ups just arrived
04:36 PM roycroft: in a subaru outback
04:36 PM roycroft: that was not painted brown
04:37 PM XXCoder: weird
04:38 PM travis_farmer: tis the season, for odd looking UPS trucks ;-)
04:49 PM Plaid1: I'm trying to troubleshoot talking to my VFD. I have a USB => RS232 adapter. I use minicom to open up a connection, specify the device, disable flow control, then short pins 2&3. I'm not seeing what I type echoing back. I tried this with two different adapters I had laying around.
04:50 PM Plaid1: did I do something wrong? Or do I have two broken adapters?
04:50 PM roycroft: if you are only shorting pins 2 to 3, then make sure you have you have all flow control disabled
04:51 PM Plaid1: software and hardware flow control are off. I saw the option, turned it off
04:52 PM Plaid1: They are old. Maybe the reason I have 2 is I couldn't get one of them working, so I bought another.
04:52 PM Plaid1: Just making sure I hit all the items before saying "yep, it's broken"
04:55 PM andypugh_: Plaid1: rewind… Why are you doing this? Is it because LinuxCNC does not have a driver for your VFD?
04:56 PM andypugh_: Does the VFD use serial or modbus?
04:56 PM Plaid1: andypugh_: I have to use mb2hal. It uses modbus over rs232
04:56 PM Plaid1: I don't have the expansion card to do modbus/rs485
04:56 PM andypugh_: Which VFD?
04:57 PM andypugh_: Some (HuanYang for example) are close to Modbus, but not really.
04:57 PM Plaid1: The series is Yaskawa GPD506/P5 I can get the exact model number if needed.
04:58 PM Plaid1: I have the tech docs on it, but no it's not one that I've seen explicit support for.
05:00 PM Plaid1: There's an expasion card that can be plugged in for rs485 support, but I don't have that card
05:01 PM andypugh_: There is something to be said for Ye Olde 0-10V analogue control, in that it is realtime, whereas most of the modbus solutions are not.
05:02 PM Plaid1: That's the backup plan.
05:02 PM andypugh_: (I think that Classic Ladder Modbus might be realtime)
05:03 PM Plaid1: Eh, it's not like I'm changing my spindle speed every millisecond. This is just a router, so I'm not doing anything crazy like spindle syncing
05:03 PM andypugh_: Ah, right. With a lathe using Constant Surface Speed this is far more of an issue.
05:04 PM Plaid1: Fair nuff. Good thing about LCNC... you can pick the solution that matches the requirements
05:07 PM XXCoder: yo andy how ya
05:09 PM Plaid1: andypugh_: One thing I've always dreamed of.... Is being able to use some of the i/o on the mesa cards for actually doing the digital control. It's not like it can't do super tightly timed signaling...
05:12 PM andypugh_: That sounds like a trivially achievable “dream”. Barely more than an ambition, really :-)
05:14 PM Plaid1: I sort of know C, and LCNC's arch scares me. I think it's all the RT stuff
05:14 PM andypugh_: The HAL files are there to be edited, human readable, human editable. HAL is what makes LinuxCNC so adaptable,
05:15 PM Plaid1: But this would be coding the mesa cards to support RS232/RS485 signaling
05:16 PM andypugh_: I thought you meant GPIO control, not serial UART etc.
05:16 PM Plaid1: Oh, GPIO is easy to do. Just edit the hal :P
05:17 PM andypugh_: But: It should be possible (and fun) to write a HAL component that uses a MESA UART to control your VFD>
05:18 PM andypugh_: A starting point: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/mesa_uart.comp
05:18 PM Plaid1: Not sure it has the right line drivers for RS232. It does have a 485 Line driver for some expansion feature that I'm not using
05:19 PM andypugh_: It’s TTL at the FPGA pins on the connector.
05:20 PM Plaid1: Right, but wouldn't you need a LD to go TTL => RS232?
05:20 PM andypugh_: I think the Smart Serial port on the daughter boards is RS485. But if you have any spare FPGA ports those are brken ait as TTL
05:21 PM Plaid1: Yeah the sserial port is rs485
05:21 PM andypugh_: Yes, some sort of buffer chip would be needed (and advisable)
05:22 PM Plaid1: Now you have me wonderiing if the RS485 LD can also do RS232 :P
05:22 PM andypugh_: LD?
05:22 PM Plaid1: Line Driver
05:24 PM Plaid1: Doesn't look like it
05:24 PM andypugh_: I would anticipate a plethora of convertor ICs existing if I bothered to search.
05:25 PM Plaid1: Oh yeah, you just have to add a line driver. That's what I was asking about
05:25 PM andypugh_: RS 232 is +/- 15V IIRC?
05:25 PM andypugh_: (in theory, rarely in practice)
05:25 PM Plaid1: Yeah
05:26 PM travis_farmer: an example https://www.ebay.com/itm/303979826070
05:27 PM andypugh_: Pretty sure Maxin do ICs with built-in charge pump. They certianly did around 1990 when this mattered to me.
05:28 PM Plaid1: I was just wondering if there was a way to make the existing 485 line driver on the existing mesa card into a 232 driver.
05:39 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:47 PM Plaid1: So... amazon just delivered a new serial port adapter. it shows up on lsusb, but after modprobe usbserial, it's still not showing in /dev/ttyUSB0, nor does it show in dmesg. It shows me plugging the device in, but nothing about modprobe picking it up
07:18 PM zephyr9900: Plaid1 to make RS485 into RS232 I think you would need ICs to translate RD485 to 3V logic and the another to translate the logic level to RS232. Unless a single part is available to do this. But another issue is that RS485 is typically used for 1/2 duplex using a bi-directional signal But RS232 has a signal line for each direction and is usually
07:18 PM zephyr9900: full duplex So you would need a way to coordinate transmit and receive using additional handshake signals like RTS and CTS or, If only a 3 wire RS232 interface is desired then the protocol would need to control the direction to use only 1/2 duplex communications. So a lot depends on what you are trying to talk to. Also RS232 defined signal levels
07:18 PM zephyr9900: as well as a lot of other signals many of which are obsolete. But RS485 defines just the signaling.
07:18 PM Plaid1: y
07:20 PM Plaid1: zephyr9900: Yeah. I was wondering at first if the LD in the mesa card was configurable runtime. I don't think it is, but I'm talking about my wish :P
08:37 PM Bleepshop: Question: 3 axis machine, X,X,Y,Z wih a new 7i96s. Which config file should I use and where do I find the hardware translation table?
08:40 PM Bleepshop: D'Oh! Never mind just took the board out of the bag and found the labels. LOL
08:49 PM CloudEvil: :)
08:54 PM Bleepshop: Actually here's a stupid question. Can I plug a 7i96s into a hub for configuration and then move it to a dedicated line in the machine after I'm done?
09:00 PM pcw-home: yes, a hub will work
09:13 PM * Bleepshop is working on stuffing his controller into an old Dec Alpha rack case.
09:14 PM Bleepshop: Anyobdy need a Dec Alpha board of unknown health? It'd make great wall art. LOL
09:23 PM roycroft: a good friend of mine still has an alpha that he uses as his workstation
09:24 PM roycroft: he runs linux on it these days, though
09:36 PM Plaid1: Heh. Gota love strangeness... So I'm working on getting my VFD working, and it sort of does... but whenever I turn the spindle on, my USB serial port starts acting strange, to the point where the device drops offline. I shut off the spindle, the USB device comes back on
09:37 PM Tom_L: noise
09:38 PM Tom_L: how is that strange?
09:39 PM Plaid1: Strictly speaking, yes. Just feels odd to me. Turn on machine. Other device loses USB connectivity.
09:43 PM Bleepshop: Plaid1: Got any ferrite beads or snap-cores? Toss one on the wire right at the USB<>485 perverter. Take 3 or 4 turns through it if it's a snap-core.
09:45 PM Plaid1: Not that I know of, but I might be able to find one if I look
09:45 PM Bleepshop: Look on old PC power supplies or scrap cables.
09:46 PM Plaid1: Also, my rs232 => USB adapter only puts out +/- 5v. Yeah, I'll check for one, there might be one around, just don't know of one atm
09:48 PM Bleepshop: Plaid1: I've got a pile of them and I'd throw you one, but it's 22F outside and I'm not throwing anything very far. LOL
09:48 PM Plaid1: I'm in texas. It's cold out. I have to wear a light jacket.
09:49 PM Bleepshop: I'm in Northern New Mexico and it's freaking cold!
09:51 PM Plaid1: I'll probably rip one off an old vga cable. Those normally have beads on them, and I'm bound to have one somewhere
10:03 PM Plaid1: Just for a quick test, I took the bulk of the extra serial cable, and wrapped is around my fingers, putting it basically on a 3/4" air core. It helped. So when I find a proper core, it'll do much better. But now is dinner time
10:04 PM Plaid1: Just most messages got lost, but it ddidn't take the usb offline, and some messages randomly worked.
10:10 PM Bleepshop: Yeah, My 485 line is ~6ft of old punchdown block interconnect wire with a ferrite donut right at the adapter because I had the same problem with my VFD.
10:27 PM Plaid1: yeah, it means we have the theory correct
10:33 PM * Bleepshop really needs to drop some $, order new wire and make a new harness for this machine.