#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 14 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:43 AM jpa-: Plaid1: vibration causes very interesting connector failures :)
01:41 AM Deejay: moin
03:00 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:33 AM Loetmichel: Hmm, $me has silver dandruff again... And the circular table saw didnt like the 4 cuts in a 120mm by 60mm alu bar... reeks like hot magnet wire :(
04:35 AM Loetmichel: ... thats what you get misusing a wood saw for alu... (also: MAN that swarf is HOT!)
04:36 AM Tom_L: but it works soo well
04:36 AM Tom_L: morning
04:58 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:59 AM travis_farmer: G'Morning
06:08 AM CloudEvil: That's just puhing too hard.
06:08 AM CloudEvil: You can do that to a saw with just wood damn easily.
06:15 AM travis_farmer: yeah, i have used a carbide saw blade for aluminum several times. just go slow and carefully, and it works fine. and yes, the swarf is HOT
06:32 AM JT-Cave: CaptHindsight[m], it's the theme that's dimming out of focus windows, TraditionalOk in Mate does not dim out of focus windows
06:32 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, ^^
06:33 AM CloudEvil: Also, sharp blade.
06:36 AM JT-Cave: hmm filezilla is not in debian 12...
06:36 AM Loetmichel: travis_farmer: not only hot but an impressive amount of chips all over the workshop :)
06:37 AM Loetmichel: CloudEvil: what can i say: i am impatient sometimes.
06:37 AM Loetmichel: and it IS an aluminium (negative rake) carbide tipped blade
06:37 AM Loetmichel: just the motor is a bit "powerless" for 60mm thick alu
06:50 AM travis_farmer: so, i have been doing some research on my VFD/RS485 noise issue. one of the important thinks i have noticed is that the motor cable needs to be fully shielded, and shield connected to the VFD earth and the motor chassis. that is not the case with my setup, so i will try that later today, by connecting the shielded motor wire shields, and shielding the portion of the wire that is completely UNSHIELDED (hangs head in shame at that part). really,
06:50 AM travis_farmer: it is a wonder that anything even worked before...
07:17 AM rmu: most important thing with circular saws cutting aluminium is chip evacuation IMHO, if you get that right you can be pretty aggressive and that usually improves everything.
07:23 AM rmu: travis_farmer: rs485 should tolerate that amount of noise, but shielding the motor leads is a good idea in and of itself
07:42 AM travis_farmer: i find it interesting that so many say how robust RS485 is, yet in my case, it is so flaky... kinda suggests either my USB/RS485 device, or my VFD is intolerant to the noise for some reason. either due to a hardware failure in some way, or a connection error on my part.
07:43 AM travis_farmer: now, my HY VFD manual does say it doesn't like being turned on and off (supply power), and i always shut it off when i leave the shop...
07:56 AM travis_farmer: my previous USB/RS485 device had just the A+/B- connections... i wonder if simply disconnecting the ground reference will remove the common-mode noise issue...
08:06 AM rmu: something strange is going on with your system. do you see a kind of signal on B line in the meantime? so resistance measurements GND-A and GND-B A-B A-5V show proper values?
08:07 AM rmu: s/so/do/
08:34 AM travis_f[SHOP]: ok, i tied the VFD-side of the shield/gnd to the earth ground, yet the RS485 signal still falls off when the VFD starts. something else i noticed. whenever LCNC closes out, i have to unplug the USB/RS485 device, and plug it back in, as LCNC retains the connection to the port, even after closing. if i don't do it, i get an error that it is already in use...
08:38 AM rmu: you need to check everything systematically.
08:38 AM rmu: 17:23:54 travis_f[SHOP] | 10.4 M ohms gnd to A+, 580 ohms B- to gnd
08:38 AM travis_f[SHOP]: getting ready to do so now
08:43 AM travis_f[SHOP]: i unplugged the 260 ohms A+ to gnd, and 249 ohms B- to gnd, with USB device unplugged from computer, and VFD in un-powered state
08:43 AM travis_f[SHOP]: cancel "i unplugged the"
08:44 AM travis_f[SHOP]: (didn't delete back far enough
08:44 AM travis_f[SHOP]: when eiter device is powered, my ohm meter won't read ohms...
08:45 AM travis_f[SHOP]: s/eiter/either/
08:47 AM rmu: it *should* read B-GND 560ohms A-B 60ohms (if terminated on both ends with 120ohms) A-GND 620ohms
08:48 AM travis_f[SHOP]: something in either the VFD or USB device must be affecting it, i would say
08:48 AM rmu: maybe some bus failsafe / bias is included in VFD or USB
08:48 AM travis_f[SHOP]: maybe
08:51 AM travis_f[SHOP]: 598 ohms gnd to A+, 590 ohms gnd to B-, with biased resisters (the ones i added) removed
08:52 AM travis_f[SHOP]: though now scope reads noise with nothing on...
08:53 AM travis_f[SHOP]: 600 ohms A+ to B-...
08:54 AM travis_f[SHOP]: sorry, 60
08:55 AM travis_f[SHOP]: powered up USB RS485 device, no change to scope noise level
08:55 AM rmu: seems your scope has issues too
08:55 AM rmu: does it also see noise if you connect GND to probe tip?
08:56 AM travis_f[SHOP]: no change with VFD powered either
08:56 AM travis_f[SHOP]: let me check
08:56 AM rmu: as your scope is battery powered you can connect scope GND to B and probe tip to A, will not make a difference, as long as you don't connect probe 2 to anything
08:56 AM travis_f[SHOP]: i forgot to connect the probe grounds back up...
08:57 AM travis_f[SHOP]: re-trying power up check...
08:57 AM travis_f[SHOP]: very little noise from usb device
08:58 AM travis_f[SHOP]: lot of noise from VFD power up
08:58 AM travis_f[SHOP]: bad filter in VFD power circuits, maybe?
08:59 AM rmu: or none at all
09:00 AM travis_f[SHOP]: Hmmm.....
09:01 AM rmu: how do you know it is not working? vfd doesnt answer?
09:02 AM rmu: scope leads could pick up interference too and mislead
09:03 AM travis_f[SHOP]: when the VFD stops responding to LCNC commands, and the traffic LEDs stop blinking
09:06 AM rmu: i'm out of ideas. but i know for sure that rs485 and rs422 (mesa smart serial runs 2.5mbps over rs422) do work in very noisy environments that even prevent touchscreens and touchpads from working
09:07 AM travis_f[SHOP]: here is a little something. when i disconnect the gnd reference on the PC device side, the noise goes up a LOT. so the PC is still sinking the noise
09:08 AM travis_f[SHOP]: maybe the VFD is just plain gone bad...
09:10 AM travis_f[SHOP]: i am tempted to grab some filter capacitors and toss them from GND to 5v
09:12 AM travis_f[SHOP]: maybe Santa will bring me a new VFD for X-Mas ;-)
09:13 AM rmu: check your protective earth system and if everything is properly connected. vfd may want / need to get rid of stray leakage currents that otherwise have to find the way on their own
09:21 AM * travis_f[SHOP] wonders why this project just can't be simple...
09:21 AM travis_f[SHOP]: earth tests out fine with a DMM
09:25 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:25 AM * travis_f[SHOP] takes a break from the VFD issue...
09:32 AM rmu: you could try disconnecting the motor, running the VFD without load should reduce interference
10:20 AM * travis_f[SHOP] heads in for lunch
10:23 AM roycroft: it seems we've been discussing vfds for days now, including the rs-485 discussions
10:24 AM roycroft: i wonder if there's been recent sunspot activity that is affecting vfds
10:24 AM sensille: my usb-rs485 adapter arrives tomorrow :)
10:24 AM * roycroft thinks blaming it on the sun is a good idea
10:27 AM rmu: https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/
10:28 AM roycroft: and there you go
10:28 AM roycroft: all your problems were caused by the m-class flare events
10:29 AM sensille: so you have to fix it while it lasts
10:29 AM roycroft: correct
10:29 AM roycroft: so get working!
10:46 AM JT-Shop_ is now known as JT-Shop
10:46 AM JT-Shop: Grizzly is sending me a new disk
10:51 AM roycroft: great
10:51 AM roycroft: they're good about that
10:52 AM roycroft: i kept the original warped disc that came with my jet sander
10:52 AM roycroft: i haven't done anything with it, but i might mount it on the lathe some day and try to make it flat
10:56 AM JT-Shop: gotta figure out how to get it off lol
10:58 AM * travis_farmer thinks he ate too much for lunch...
10:58 AM roycroft: when you get the new one it will probably be obvious
10:59 AM JT-Shop: it's obvious how the disk is mounted to the shaft but not obvious how to get to the setscrew(s) that lock it on the shaft...
11:01 AM roycroft: i hope you don't have to remove the motor and disc as an assembly in order to separate them
11:02 AM roycroft: that would be a lot of work
11:02 AM JT-Shop: https://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/g0719_pl.pdf
11:02 AM JT-Shop: depends on the shape of 34
11:03 AM JT-Shop: the disc that was on it when it arrived was a real bugger to get off and get the disc cleaned up
11:08 AM zephyr9900: I have a 6" 3 Jaw lathe chuck apart what kind of lubricant is recommended for the scroll and gears?
11:15 AM travis_farmer: i am considering a plan... the perske spindle i have is sounding pretty bad (likely bad bearings), and my HY VFD is questionable... i have wanted a ATC spindle for quite some time, and the spindle comes with a VFD (not HY, but unknown brand) so i am considering taking some of my CNC shed build money, and buying the ATC spindle and VFD package. it would get my machine back to a working state, though it would lessen the funds for finishing the
11:15 AM travis_farmer: new shed.
11:22 AM roycroft: for a 3 jaw you can use either grease or oil - the chuck is fairly well sealed, and you won't tend to get a lot of chips and other debris inside it
11:22 AM roycroft: for a 4 jaw i would only use oil, since it's an open design and is likely to get fairly fouled on the inside
11:22 AM zephyr9900: I would not mess around with other cheaper brands and stick with the HY VFD or other well known brand
11:23 AM travis_farmer: it is not a cheaper brand
11:23 AM CloudEvil: First clean out the old lubricant if there is any debris in it of course
11:23 AM travis_farmer: $2380
11:23 AM roycroft: that's a given, cloudevil
11:24 AM travis_farmer: Changzhou Rattm Motor Co.,Ltd
11:26 AM zephyr9900: I wonder if you will have trouble with the other non HY VFD talking to Linuxcnc?
11:28 AM travis_farmer: if i do, then i know it wasn't the VFD causing the issue. but as it stands right now, the VFD is producing too much interference to allow me to use it.
11:29 AM zephyr9900: Not that issue but slight differences in the protocol
11:29 AM travis_farmer: and the spindle is starting to howl when it runs, suggesting it is not long for this world
11:30 AM travis_farmer: it uses regular modbus
11:30 AM zephyr9900: Or maybe the parameters profile for the drive
11:30 AM travis_farmer: not the weird HY modbus
11:31 AM zephyr9900: Ah OK you can always use some other interface - even with HY like analog, PWM etc
11:31 AM travis_farmer: yes, as a fall-back
11:34 AM roycroft: you actually won't know that
11:34 AM roycroft: your wiring could be fine and both vfds could be having communications issues
11:35 AM travis_farmer: that would suck, if both had comm issues...
11:36 AM roycroft: if you think the problem with the huanyang is interference, then i would spend some time trying to eliminate that interference
11:37 AM travis_farmer: and if it is an internal VFD defect, or something that failed?
11:38 AM roycroft: well look at the signal at the vfd, and look at the signal at the pc
11:40 AM roycroft: if it's emf, there are more things you can do
11:40 AM roycroft: replacing the cable with a heavier gauge, tightly twisted one might help
11:40 AM roycroft: you can get double-shielded cables, i.e. one with a braided shield coverd by a foil shield
11:40 AM travis_farmer: when i did a power-up test, the pc connection had very little noise, but when the VFD was powered up, there was a ton of noise. that suggests to me, noise from the VFD. i will check from ground to 5v on the VFD when i go back out in a bit, and see if the noise is from the internal VFD power system
11:41 AM roycroft: i already suggested checking to see if you have a ground voltage differential between the pc and the vfd
11:42 AM roycroft: if so, you might need to insert a resistor in the ground wire to eliminate that ground potential difference
11:42 AM roycroft: and make sure the shield is connected to ground only at the vfd end
11:43 AM travis_farmer: i think there was around a 10mv difference, so yes, there is a ground difference.
11:43 AM roycroft: 10mv isn't much
11:43 AM travis_farmer: i will add the resistor anyway
11:43 AM travis_farmer: just to see
11:43 AM roycroft: i'd guess that's not the cause of the problem, but it's easy to eliminate it
11:44 AM roycroft: and that's where you are with this - not knowing what is the problem, you eliminate as many potential (no pun intended) sources of the problem as you can
11:45 AM zephyr9900: travis_farmer you can also check your RS232 to 485 converter to see how the signal common - pin 1 in the DB-9 connector is connected to your PC. Are you using an Isolated converter?
11:46 AM roycroft: you mean the de-9 connector?
11:46 AM roycroft: or does this have some kind of new-fangled connector that's never been used before? :)
11:46 AM travis_farmer: what if, as i suspect, the ground to 5v power source on the VFD (and so also the logic that drives the RS485 comms) contains noise? suggesting the VFD has an internal fault?
11:47 AM zephyr9900: I am not saying you need an isolated converter. I am not using one but that could help.
11:47 AM roycroft: is the output from the vfd shielded?
11:47 AM zephyr9900: VFDs and drives are noisy devices in general.
11:48 AM roycroft: that's where you're going to get a lot of noise
11:48 AM roycroft: the shield can both block noise and contain noise
11:48 AM travis_farmer: roycroft: the motor output? no. i thought it was mostly shielded, but i looked again to find it is not.
11:50 AM * travis_farmer is heading back out to shop
11:51 AM zephyr9900: roycroft I mean DB-9 some call them D shell but that is what I have known them as for the last 50+ years :-)
11:52 AM roycroft: yeah, well you've been wrong for the last 50+ years
11:52 AM roycroft: but you're in good company - most folks are wrong
11:52 AM roycroft: the d designates that it's a d-shell connector
11:52 AM roycroft: the letter following the d designates the size
11:53 AM roycroft: db is used for 25-pin connectors in standard density
11:53 AM roycroft: de is for 9 pin standard density or 15 pin high density (3 rows of pins)
11:53 AM roycroft: dd is for 50-pin standard density, such as used to be used for scsi cables
12:02 PM travis_f[SHOP]: back outside. i used the scope to look at the VFD 5V power bus (probe gnd to VFD gnd, and probe to vfd 5V), and got what looked like substantial noise in the logic power bus...
12:03 PM zephyr9900: roycroft You are right. Many have it wrong such that you can find DE-9 connectors called DB-9.
12:04 PM zephyr9900: anyway I will now shut up on this issue because I think my suggestions are not being heard.
12:05 PM travis_f[SHOP]: i heard
12:06 PM travis_f[SHOP]: i am stareing at the odd traces from the VFD 5V bus...
12:07 PM zephyr9900: Yesterday you said the ground of the VFD was floating. Is it still floating when you plug the cable into the PC?
12:10 PM travis_f[SHOP]: yes
12:10 PM travis_f[SHOP]: as compaired to earth
12:11 PM travis_f[SHOP]: hmm, wish i had some filter caps to add to the 5V bus. it goes very wild when the VFD turns the spindle. like many volts wild
12:12 PM zephyr9900: I think you should try connecting the VFD ground to earth.
12:12 PM travis_f[SHOP]: it is connected
12:13 PM zephyr9900: I think you are seeing common mode noise on the 5V bus. The only way to really measure it is to have a really short ground lead on the scope probe.
12:14 PM roycroft: your suggestions are heard
12:15 PM zephyr9900: you need a spring kind of ground contact that is only a fraction of an inch long. Very difficult to use especially since it can easily slip and short things out causing damage
12:15 PM roycroft: i'm just pretty anal about d-sub connetor nomenclature, and cannot help but to try to set the record straight whenever it's misued
12:15 PM roycroft: which is like every time someone mentions anything but at db-25 :)
12:16 PM zephyr9900: sure thats OK
12:16 PM roycroft: but i can be anal retentive about my thing and still listen to others
12:18 PM zephyr9900: travis_f how is the VFD ground connected? is it just in you cable?
12:18 PM zephyr9900: *your
12:21 PM travis_f[SHOP]: the earth ground or the digital ground?
12:22 PM zephyr9900: The digital ground
12:22 PM Tom_L: they should all come together at one point
12:22 PM Tom_L: aka star ground
12:23 PM travis_f[SHOP]: it is connected to acm, that i also have connected to earth ground via a short wire
12:24 PM travis_f[SHOP]: i used acm as dcm was a LOT noisier
12:24 PM zephyr9900: acm?
12:24 PM travis_f[SHOP]: acm to 5V has noise at 15Vpp
12:24 PM travis_f[SHOP]: analog common
12:28 PM zephyr9900: OK I don't know enough about how your machine is physically built. Maybe we need pictures.
12:29 PM travis_f[SHOP]: dcm to 5V has noise at 28Vpp !!!
12:29 PM travis_f[SHOP]: pictures, like of what?
12:30 PM zephyr9900: the wiring and layout of the controls
12:34 PM travis_f[SHOP]: this is what i have on hand, doesn't show much (updated logic control box on second page) https://www.tjfhome.net/community/index.php?threads/my-techno-isel-4-foot-square-cnc-router-table-build.16/
12:36 PM zephyr9900: Thanks. Now what is the VFD mounted on? is the frame of the VFD connected to earth?
12:37 PM travis_f[SHOP]: the frame of the VFD is mounted on a wall
12:38 PM travis_f[SHOP]: the frame of the VFD is plastic, so it wouldn't make any difference
12:39 PM zephyr9900: OK mine is a bigger one with a aluminum heat sink on the back. So then you have the AC ground for the input power to the VFD connected to earth where?
12:40 PM zephyr9900: By the way I am using the 7i80 also
12:40 PM travis_f[SHOP]: connected to earth in the breaker panel, and to earth via a ground rod
12:43 PM zephyr9900: So it looks like everthing is mounted on plywood panels right?
12:43 PM travis_f[SHOP]: yes
12:47 PM zephyr9900: long ground wires and wood panels may not be the best.
12:48 PM travis_f[SHOP]: what's wrong with wood?
12:54 PM travis_f[SHOP]: a lot of buildings are made of wood...
12:54 PM zephyr9900: High frequency signals and in your case electrical noise will return via the lowest impedance path back to the source of the noise in your case the VFD. If the controls chassis and VFD grounding is through long wires then that noise travels everywhere trying to return. I may have over simplified that.
12:56 PM zephyr9900: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fj8HWg0FnNUkhTbGI3cHhUVEE/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-lH9HCprq2WpB_Ph2lFwDPQ
12:57 PM zephyr9900: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fj8HWg0FnNSjNGTWcwQWFmOHpEclhMdmVGMnU5eWY5RnJZ/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-SNPiZh4yHwgo2c0DawQ4LQ
12:57 PM travis_f[SHOP]: this computer will not do videos, sadly. it is my LCNC computer itself
12:58 PM zephyr9900: well its pretty long anyway. But it is really good.
12:58 PM travis_f[SHOP]: it is a Dell PowerEdge R200, with a video card that is sadly a very poor Graphics card
12:58 PM travis_f[SHOP]: i will watch it when i go back inside
12:58 PM zephyr9900: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fj8HWg0FnNeFBoVTJOQkpvdzZ2Y2M4OUtTVTgxa2NFM25r/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-q6PMNL_3lBBv_fbT1Zb1cA
01:01 PM travis_f[SHOP]: not sure if the pictures show, but my logic controls are inside a metal enclosure that is earth-grounded. but the VFD is in the open...
01:03 PM travis_f[SHOP]: dang, just realized i have to get ready for an appointment.... (grumble grumble grumble...)
02:00 PM Plaid1: I wish there was a way to turn my 7i96s into a ocilloscope for a bit for troubleshooting wiriing.
02:01 PM Plaid1: It's got a bunch of good ADCs on it :P
02:01 PM zephyr9900: halscope?
02:02 PM Plaid1: ...I mean I could... I hadn't seriously considered it.
02:02 PM zephyr9900: if you can read the ADCs you can look at them with the halscope but the sample rate is low
02:02 PM zephyr9900: even hal meters might be good
02:04 PM zephyr9900: another thing I have done to sort or wiring is connect all the digital I/O to a pyvcp panel of indicator lights. Then you can see each input if it is on or off
02:05 PM zephyr9900: its pretty easy to build a panel like that
02:12 PM Plaid1: Yeah, it's really I need a proper ocilliscope to see what's going on
02:21 PM JT-Shop: for digital signals just add them to the watch window
02:33 PM * JT[m]1 uploaded an image: (257KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/MtislgvgLDePrjllEscmcVQV/20221214_143243_1011990419872916056.jpg >
02:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: is it balanced now?
02:45 PM zephyr9900: JT-Shop yes I never really looked at that feature - thats the easiest way to see a bunch of things at once.
02:47 PM JT-Shop22: it's balanced but all that drilling warped it
02:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's silly to try and save a casting that far out of balance, but China
02:50 PM Plaid1: I mean if you have a good balancing process...
02:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe the foundry is on a hillside
02:57 PM unterhaus: that looks like the first time I tried to balance a high speed spindle
02:58 PM unterhaus: the spindle was balanced, but the expensive collet chuck we put on it was pretty awful
02:59 PM unterhaus: and my boss wanted me to run it at what turned out to be a resonance. Turns out balancing near a resonance is not particularly easy
03:01 PM unterhaus: I'm pretty sure we got that POS chuck from nanotech
03:02 PM unterhaus: if the balancing screws are radial, you can change the resonant frequency by adjusting them
03:10 PM JT-Shop22: CaptHindsight[m], the disc sander came from
03:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://goo.gl/maps/5vRDFpiZUGsuPHDF7 and this is the smaller one nearby
03:10 PM JT-Shop22: Taiwan
03:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.mmsonline.com/articles/going-to-great-lengths
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.additivemanufacturing.media/articles/worlds-largest-metal-3d-printer-seen-at-ingersoll-grand-opening-event
04:11 PM * JT[m]1 uploaded an image: (323KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/iOjzAnICLYLcxAkpfLjAhMon/20221214_161102_3470639096313723757.jpg >
04:12 PM Tom_L: starting on your bowl?
04:12 PM JT-Shop22: yup, that's the feature ring
04:14 PM XXCoder: building something similiar to old funtures trims etc
04:14 PM XXCoder: nice
04:15 PM JT-Shop22: going to be a chevron pattern ring... I hope
04:16 PM JT-Shop22: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fPAwjLe1UQ
04:16 PM JT-Shop22: it's a horrible video but something like that
04:18 PM XXCoder: nice
04:27 PM travis_farmer: hmmm, 10 - 15 inches of snow predicted this Friday... and i don't even have the snowblower fully mounted on the tractor...
04:27 PM JT-Shop22: better git busy
04:27 PM travis_farmer: it is a two man job...
04:28 PM travis_farmer: (snowblower and cab)
04:29 PM travis_farmer: my father may get out of work early on friday to help... but it still seems like a close margin
04:36 PM * JT-Shop22 always seems to have to do multi man jobs carefully and alone
04:36 PM JT-Shop22 is now known as JT-Shop2
04:37 PM Tom_L: i resemble that
04:38 PM Tom_L: ... you just figure it out
04:38 PM JT-Shop2: yup
04:39 PM JT-Shop2: remember the photos of me unloading the 308 and getting it in the garage?
04:43 PM Tom_L: yeah
04:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.imgur.com/ey5VtXu.jpg had 3 people "help" and a 50 ton crane and they knocked the mill off the rear skates going through the drive in door
04:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: had to ask them to leave so I could move it myself https://i.imgur.com/CvsLnS6.jpg
05:58 PM Plaid1: The guy that loaded my router said he had a forklift and had a plan to load it. Didn't go quite as gently as I wished.
05:59 PM bjorkintosh: *blink*. for a second, I thought ... how big could a home network router possibly be.
06:04 PM Plaid1: I haven't gotten my machine fully up yet to test it though. It's not terribly broken, but I haven't fully tested it out yet
06:05 PM Plaid1: It's only ~1800 lbs. It's "light"
06:05 PM bjorkintosh: what happened, poor rigging?
06:06 PM Plaid1: Didn't have fork extensions, so it couldn't get under it really well.
06:06 PM bjorkintosh: ah damn.
06:06 PM Plaid1: There's two big structural beams across the bottom, and it couldn't reach both at the same time to lift it up
06:09 PM roycroft: i know multiple people who had a cisco 6500 at home
06:10 PM roycroft: heck, i knew a guy back in the '90s who had an aix machine that he used as a frame-relay router at his hous
06:10 PM roycroft: e
06:10 PM roycroft: that thing filled up almost an entire standard-size rack
06:10 PM roycroft: big networking routers happen, even at people's houses
06:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: have you ever mounted a router on a router?
06:15 PM Plaid1: And honestly I wasn't quite ready either. I didn't anticipate how much it'd move and dance about on a trailer. I Had it strapped down and chained down... I was lucky I added the chains at the last minute.
06:16 PM bjorkintosh: roycroft, what did he need it for?
06:16 PM Plaid1: Routing his network traffic at home of course.
06:17 PM bjorkintosh: hah. well what was so special about his home network?
06:17 PM XXCoder: its at his home
06:18 PM bjorkintosh: hahaha
06:23 PM roycroft: he needed it for his dedicated uucp connection to the university of washington
06:25 PM roycroft: that aix machine was the only machine i ever saw with a 19" wide 4u high v.35 interface
06:28 PM bjorkintosh: Where is it now?
06:28 PM bjorkintosh: gone, I suppose?
06:34 PM roycroft: that depends
06:34 PM roycroft: if the guy's furnace died while he was still using the aix machine as the router, it may still be in his house, turned on during the winter
06:34 PM bjorkintosh: a space heater.
06:34 PM roycroft: for a big space
06:35 PM * roycroft is so tired of writing legal language crap
06:36 PM bjorkintosh: roycroft, have you tried asking chatgpt?
06:36 PM bjorkintosh: use AI! :-)
06:40 PM roycroft: i'm almost done
06:41 PM roycroft: we're having a special election, and the way we need to conduct it is unusual
06:41 PM bjorkintosh: does this happen fairly often?
06:41 PM roycroft: statutes are very specific about what we can and cannot do, so we're having to craft every word on our documents really carefully
06:41 PM roycroft: this is the first of this kind of election we've ever done, in the 53 year history of the organization
06:42 PM roycroft: so anyway, it's literally down to double checking every comma, word tense, conditional, etc. to make sure we comply with statutes and our bylaws
06:42 PM roycroft: then i have to take the stiff legal documents and turn them into hippie-speak so that our membership will understand them, but still retain all the legal language
06:43 PM roycroft: it's some of the most difficult wordsmithing i've ever done in my life
06:43 PM bjorkintosh: are you not a lawyer?
06:44 PM roycroft: i don't even pretend to be one
06:44 PM roycroft: but i do have a legal team who are working with me
06:44 PM bjorkintosh: IANAL either.
06:44 PM roycroft: they don't do hippie speak
06:44 PM roycroft: but they help with the legalese
06:44 PM roycroft: and i do the translations
06:55 PM unterhaus: I went to home depot and I picked up the milwaukee portable bandsaw. It's heavy
06:55 PM unterhaus: it would be nice to be able to cut stock for machining though
07:21 PM CloudEvil: Hacksaw is very considerably lighter.
08:34 PM Tom_L: unterhaus, i looked ath those but they didn't have enough clearance for me
08:42 PM Tom_L: i found some rather coarse blades for a jigsaw that do somewhat ok for me
09:34 PM wulph: Hello i have been dabbling in getting linuxcnc set up for a couple years now and i finally RTFM which led me here... anyways no questions, just introducing myself. Cheers
09:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/47642-gentoo-image-which-applications-are-in-and-which-are-out#259531
10:06 PM wulph: ok so i already have a question.... how do i disable power management, i don't ever want this device to sleep/suspend/hibernate/etc.
10:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wulph: turn it all off in BIOS/EFI
10:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and also screen blanking and screensavers in the settings
10:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wulph: see the matching tweaks for your Debian version
10:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/
10:09 PM wulph: CaptHindsight[m] can you link me to more info? i can pore through the Optiplex 3050 BIOS setup screens but what is "in the settings"?
10:10 PM wulph: My debian version is from the latest live image at the linuxcnc site ... Linux osa 4.19.0-21-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.249-2 (2022-06-30) x86_64 GNU/Linux Debian GNU/Linux 10 \n \l
10:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you will have to look through all your BIOS settings
10:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/debian-10-fix.html
10:11 PM wulph: will do ... also will read through the page you linked thanks for the pointers
10:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Debian 10 is Buster
10:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wulph: have you run the latency test yet on the Optiplex 3050??
10:13 PM Tom_L: parport or 3rd party card?
10:13 PM wulph: Yes, it is suitable .. max jitter 25000~ ns
10:13 PM wulph: Parport (pcie expansion card)
10:14 PM wulph: Are you "JT" from the gnipsel site?
10:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no he is asleep by now
10:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: come back in 6-8 hours :)
10:15 PM wulph: gotcha ... thanks for the links ... will do
10:15 PM Tom_L: around 5am cst
10:15 PM roycroft: jt lives in the utc-6 timezone
10:15 PM wulph: I have some homework to read .... and settings to revise.
10:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he makes sure that the chickens don't sleep in
10:15 PM roycroft: and he is active during daytime hours
10:15 PM wulph: ha! lol
10:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 🐦️
10:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 🐔
10:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some people in here CNC as well as raise chickens
10:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 🪵 roycroft
10:17 PM Tom_L: or goats etx
10:17 PM Tom_L: etc
10:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 🐐
10:18 PM roycroft: there ain't nobody here but us chickens
10:18 PM roycroft: there ain't nobody here at all
10:18 PM roycroft: so calm yourself, and stop that fuss
10:18 PM roycroft: there ain't nobody here but us
10:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 🐑
10:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lots of animals in here
10:19 PM wulph: Just as some background, i started with a chinese 6090 floor model with a leafboy77 controller with MACH3 ... it doesn't go back to the same position reliably and we have been struggling for 2 years. So I got a Ethernet Smoothstepper as well as a Buildbotics controller, both of which don't work with linuxcnc of course.
10:19 PM roycroft: a lot of folks here build their own controllers
10:19 PM Tom_L: wulph, google 7i96s and see what pops up
10:19 PM roycroft: so there's a fair amount of knowledge about how controllers work and how to debug/repair them
10:20 PM wulph: So i scrounged up some old hardware none of which were suitable in the latency test and finally i'm ready to get moving with the Optiplex/printer-port.
10:20 PM wulph: Tom_L, the mesa cards have had limited availability since the pandemic but i'll keep looking
10:20 PM Tom_L: it is one that should be available
10:21 PM roycroft: there are some newer mesa cards now that are more available
10:21 PM Tom_L: that and 7i92t? may be soon
10:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://mesaus.com/product/7i96s/ 15 in stock
10:22 PM wulph: OK ill look into it ...Oh, I installed optical glass 5 micrometer scales since I was having so much trouble with mach3 .... will i be able to "close the loop" with linuxcnc?
10:22 PM Tom_L: should
10:22 PM wulph: OK i will look into 7i96
10:22 PM Tom_L: s
10:22 PM wulph: i Appreciate the pointers y'all
10:22 PM Tom_L: those are 2 different cards
10:22 PM roycroft: pcw is mr mesa
10:22 PM roycroft: he lives in utc-8
10:22 PM Tom_L: the 7i96 was discontinued i believe
10:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: mesaus
10:23 PM roycroft: and is pretty good about answering questions
10:23 PM Tom_L: meaus is jt
10:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: PCW is Mr. Mesa
10:23 PM Tom_L: mesaus
10:23 PM wulph: lol so much to learn
10:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: https://mesaus.com/product/7i96s/ 15 in stock this is discontinued?
10:25 PM roycroft: 7i96 != 7i96s
10:25 PM Tom_L: capn no
10:25 PM Tom_L: the old version
10:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh the one with no suffix
10:25 PM Tom_L: right
10:26 PM Tom_L: had the xilinx chip instead of the new one
10:27 PM wulph: Oh the gnipsel.com site is by the mesa devs?
10:27 PM roycroft: no
10:27 PM Tom_L: that's jt's site
10:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so S is the new FPGA, what are the ones with the T?
10:27 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], same
10:27 PM roycroft: jt is the us distributor of mesa products
10:27 PM Tom_L: the new chip
10:27 PM wulph: Ahhh gotcha thanks for clarifying
10:27 PM roycroft: pcw owns mesanet
10:27 PM Tom_L: just on the 7i92 i believe
10:28 PM Tom_L: 7i92t and maybe a couple other flavors
10:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: S and T = new FPGA?
10:28 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure
10:28 PM Tom_L: i think so yes
10:28 PM roycroft: jt writes configuration utilities for mesa products
10:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what is the S for and what it the T for?
10:28 PM wulph: (y)
10:28 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], S designates spindle
10:28 PM Tom_L: i think but the 7i96s has additional features besides the spindle
10:28 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure about the 't'
10:29 PM roycroft: the main feature is that it does not contain any components that are made of unobtanium
10:29 PM wulph: So without the S you have to do manual spindle speed?
10:29 PM wulph: LOL roycroft
10:29 PM Tom_L: it has analog channel for the spindle
10:29 PM Tom_L: makes it easier to do
10:30 PM wulph: gotcha thx
10:31 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], depending on the context, 'S' could mean sserial as well
10:31 PM Tom_L: i'm still figuring out his naming convention
10:31 PM Tom_L: :)
10:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Efinix
10:31 PM Tom_L: right
10:32 PM Tom_L: and instead of bit files they're bin
10:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/47064-mesa-and-efinix-fpgas
10:40 PM wulph: Allright fellas (ladies? other?) ... catch y'all tomorrow. thanks again for steering me towards some resources.