#linuxcnc Logs

Nov 25 2022

01:13 AM Deejay: moin
05:01 AM JT-Cave_ is now known as JT-Cave
05:01 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:19 AM Tom_L: morning
05:19 AM travis_farmer: G'Morning
07:12 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:14 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:16 AM mrec: we had some discussion a while ago about connectors, is anyone into that topic and using something that's durable?
07:17 AM mrec: I'm getting some samples now with some quick-connect which are specified for 3000 iterations
07:17 AM mrec: 2$ per connector (male/female)
07:18 AM CloudEvil: Is this for a quick-connect like use?
07:18 AM mrec: SMD Feeders
07:19 AM mrec: everything our local electronic store has is ... bad
07:20 AM CloudEvil: Pogo pin based connectors can be pretty decent
07:20 AM CloudEvil: As long as you keep the contacts clean and have decently thick plated ones.
07:21 AM mrec: maybe for another feeder design, my current design is yamaha based..
07:21 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:25 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:38 AM JT-Cave: damn menu is gone...
07:38 AM Tom_L: pancakes, eggs, bacon, sausage....
07:51 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:44 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:09 AM TheMightyFozz[m]: whoop, might have my first customer. someone wants a business card holder.
09:15 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:43 AM reporter is now known as JT-Server
10:44 AM JT-Server: taking forever to install debian 11 on the m.2 drive, been copying files for a half and hour and only 15% done
10:45 AM travis_farmer: i thought ssd were supposed to be faster...
10:47 AM JT-Server: something is messed up for sure
10:48 AM JT-Server: menu disappeared and couldn't get it back so I copied all my data to the nas and reinstall but it's taking forever
10:49 AM travis_farmer: maybe bad/corrupt install media?
10:50 AM Tom_L: i didn't see that M.2 was any quicker than a standard ssd
10:52 AM TheMightyFozz[m]: I'm trying to turn a ten year old mac into a useful computer. debian 11 just crashes. so now trying debian 10. but me being me i plugged the usb stick into a normal usb socket.. ..this is taking forever to write.
10:54 AM TheMightyFozz[m]: 15mbs.. ..i hope this works. i need those legacy nvidia drivers to work.
10:56 AM JT-Server: I'm going to burn the iso again onto the sd card
10:56 AM JT-Server: hmm it just jumped to 35% copying data to disk
10:57 AM JT-Server: I think the m.2 can be quicker on some motherboards, iirc on the asus if you use one socket it's faster than the second socket
10:57 AM JT-Server: JT just goes to town and see when I get back
10:58 AM TheMightyFozz[m]: mines still doing things 15 mins later.
11:01 AM roycroft: themightyfozz: i have an imac that is from 2008 or so
11:01 AM roycroft: i'm running cinnamon on it, andit works quite well
11:01 AM roycroft: it even looks and behaves kind of like xquartz
11:01 AM TheMightyFozz[m]: im getting nouveau 0000:04:00:.0: bus: MMIO write of 0000807f FAULT at 100c18
11:02 AM TheMightyFozz[m]: on boot, then it freezes trying to anything more than running terminal emulator.
11:04 AM travis_farmer: must be a solar-flair or something... everybody is having issues installing ...
11:04 AM roycroft: that sounds like a defective machine
11:04 AM roguish[m]: it's a Mac
11:04 AM roycroft: i finally got my rack gear drawings made last night
11:04 AM travis_farmer: lol, roguish
11:05 AM TheMightyFozz[m]: i think the Nouveau drivers are not compatible with the system.
11:05 AM roycroft: i chose cinnamon for my old imac because it has good support for mac hardware
11:06 AM TheMightyFozz[m]: I know that the Nvidia GPU drivers are included with Deb10, so trying that.
11:06 AM roycroft: iirc i tried mint and while it installed and worked, i did not have full hardware support
11:06 AM TheMightyFozz[m]: contrib non-free etc...
11:07 AM roycroft: stock debian is useless for a desktop/laptop
11:07 AM roycroft: stock debian is what i run on servers whenever possible, but there are other distros that are much better suited for workstationuse
11:07 AM TheMightyFozz[m]: the wireless adaptor i can fix. done it six times already. 🤨
11:08 AM roycroft: even ubuntu, which i generally loathe, is better than stock debian for a workstation
11:08 AM travis_farmer: on my production machine, i had to use the nonfree debian install (buster), and side-load some extra firmware in for my ethernet ports, and some other stuff
11:08 AM roguish[m]: roycroft: who ya gonna cheer for when the US plays England?
11:09 AM roycroft: i'll pick splunge
12:30 PM JT-Shop: menards black friday sale... wednesday R15 sack of bats 43.80... today 50.58
12:40 PM roycroft: thanks, inflation!
12:43 PM roguish[m]: wait until the railroad unions strike....
12:53 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:55 PM roycroft: the president will probably break that strike
12:55 PM roycroft: like president truman did with the 1952 steel strike
12:56 PM JT-Cave: I might try debian 12 after a nap to see if I get better display resolution choices
12:56 PM roycroft: even more like president wilson's nationalizing the railroad industry in 1917 to avoid a strike
12:57 PM * roycroft is going to go do some more work on the refurbishment of his 8" vise
12:57 PM roycroft: is there an easy way to remove chrome plating that is failing?
12:58 PM roycroft: media blasting with alumium oxide would probably work but might take a very long time
01:11 PM roycroft: allegedly ultrasonic cleaning can remove chrome plating
01:11 PM roycroft: i wonder if my ultrasonic cleaner with a fairly strong simply green solution would do the job
01:12 PM roycroft: i also wonder if i would then be left with a tub full of toxic waste
01:19 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: not sure about plating, but it can sure mess up anodizing
01:30 PM roycroft: i'm not going to do that
01:30 PM roycroft: i'm not sure what treatment i want to do after the chrome is removed
01:31 PM roycroft: ideally i'd like to nickel plate the parts, but i am not set up for that and the local plating outfit have a large minimum fee
01:31 PM roycroft: the parts in question are the front end of the vise crew and the handle
01:32 PM roycroft: i could do my usual method of heating them up and then dunking the parts in used motor oil when they're hot (not glowing hot)
01:32 PM roycroft: which leaves an attractive finish that is more durable than cold blueing
01:32 PM roycroft: but for a vise handle i think it wouldn't last very long
01:33 PM roycroft: and i could just leave it plain steel, and polish it up and hope for the best
01:34 PM roycroft: perhaps it's time for me to finally get set up for nickel plating
01:34 PM roycroft: i did buy a nice power supply a while back with the intent to do some plating in-house
01:35 PM roycroft: i guess now i just need some tubs and chemicals
01:35 PM roycroft: and some nickel strips
01:35 PM roycroft: which will be the expensive part
01:38 PM roycroft: i still have to strip and paint the vise body and jaw, which i'll be working on today, so there's plenty of time to get the plated parts sorted
01:39 PM roguish[m]: it's just a vice.......
01:39 PM roycroft: yes, but it should work well and not get rusty
01:40 PM roycroft: this will be living in my fabrication shop, which is unheated and uninsulated
01:56 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: https://www.gofundme.com/f/ywusub58
01:56 PM roguish[m]: somewhere he shows rebuilding that vice
02:44 PM roycroft: tom lipton can be kind of snarky, but he does good work
02:46 PM * roycroft needs this:
02:47 PM roycroft: * ^Subject:.*[Bb]lack.*[Ff]riday.*
02:47 PM roycroft: /dev/null
02:47 PM roycroft: i'll let procmail do the heavy deleting for the rest of the day
02:47 PM roycroft: i've grown weary of it
02:49 PM JT-Cave: hmm debian still complains bout missng firmware for the realtek nic
02:50 PM roycroft: anyway, i'm going to postpone the vise work for a bit
02:50 PM roycroft: it's going way too slowly, and my blasting media is really old
02:51 PM roycroft: i'll almost certainly be better off getting some fresh media
02:51 PM roycroft: which won't happen until at least tomorrow
02:55 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:59 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:59 PM JT-Cave: on to debian 13 to see if I get more display resolution choices...
03:12 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:55 PM JT-Shop22 is now known as JT-Shop2
03:56 PM JT-Shop2: well crap lost my center pin spreadsheet so I'll have to make a new one and make sure I save it to the nas
03:58 PM Tom_L: what does it tell you?
03:58 PM Tom_L: center pin or dowel pin?
04:07 PM JT-Shop2: the width of the board for the number of pins and the width of the pins
04:08 PM JT-Shop2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idn7JXOmCTk
04:11 PM roycroft: you're talking about splined box joints, i know, but if you're interested in laying out standard box joints, you might have a look at pyRouterJig
04:12 PM roycroft: it's a python app that generates templates for the incra jig, but all the dimensions are printed on the template, so you can use it without the incra jig as well
04:12 PM JT-Shop2: no the video is splined I'm just making a center pin box joint
04:12 PM roycroft: it lets you select the board width, cutting depth, number and width of fingers
04:13 PM roycroft: and you can even do custom layouts where the fingers are not symmetric
04:13 PM JT-Shop2: does it calculate for a center pin box joint
04:13 PM roycroft: which i use all the time when making boxes with a lid that i cut off
04:13 PM roycroft: i make the finger where i do the cut 1/8" wider than the rest, so that it's the same after the cut
04:14 PM roycroft: you may be able to calculate for that
04:15 PM roycroft: what do you mean by "center pin"?
04:15 PM JT-Shop2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idn7JXOmCTk
04:15 PM JT-Shop2: the pins are all the same width except the left over is in the center
04:15 PM roycroft: oh
04:15 PM roycroft: sure, that's easy to do
04:15 PM JT-Shop2: so it's a bit wider
04:15 PM roycroft: download that app and play with it
04:16 PM JT-Shop2: but not all pin widths and board widths will work
04:16 PM roycroft: sure they will
04:16 PM roycroft: but
04:16 PM JT-Shop2: I made one with a gap in the center lol
04:16 PM roycroft: 1. the finger widths may not be the same on both boards, nor the same width as the cutter
04:17 PM roycroft: and 2. the end fingers may not be the same width as the rest
04:17 PM roycroft: but pyRouterJig has a graphical interface, so you can see what you're doing as you do it
04:17 PM JT-Shop2: on a center pin box joint all pins are the same except the center pin
04:18 PM JT-Shop2: and it's always an odd number of pins
04:18 PM roycroft: since it can make joints with arbitrary finger widths, it's best used with something like an incra jig, but you can make it work for other things
04:18 PM roycroft: sure
04:18 PM roycroft: so what i would do is design a joint where the fingers on both sides are the same width as the cutter
04:18 PM roycroft: and then adjust the center finger larger until the end fingers align with the board width
04:19 PM roycroft: let me make one now
04:19 PM JT-Shop2: Center Keyed Box Joint
04:19 PM JT-Shop2: Formula for Stock Width: Stock Width = (Total Pins + 1/2) x Kerf
04:19 PM JT-Shop2: Note: Total pins must be an odd number
04:19 PM JT-Shop2: on a center pin box joint you start from both sides and work to the middle
04:20 PM roycroft: with PyRouterJig you would just set the board width, cutter width, and tell it to space evenly
04:21 PM roycroft: and then go in and edit the center finger
04:21 PM JT-Shop2: there are combinations that don't work...
04:21 PM JT-Shop2: I made one lol
04:25 PM JT-Shop2: 4" wide stock with a 3/8" kerf and 11 pins and the center pin has a gap
04:26 PM JT-Shop2: 4.3125 is the ideal width for 11 pins with 3/8" kerf
04:28 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/CenterKeyedBoxJoint.png
04:28 PM roycroft: i just made up those numbers
04:28 PM JT-Shop2: that's not possible to cut with the incra box jig
04:29 PM roycroft: perhaps not
04:29 PM JT-Shop2: you have 3 different widths of pins
04:29 PM roycroft: yes
04:29 PM roycroft: with the regular incra jig it's trivial to do
04:29 PM JT-Shop2: the pins will all be the same size except the center pin
04:29 PM roycroft: but if you're locked into certain sizes that could be a problem
04:30 PM roycroft: can the center one be any width?
04:30 PM JT-Shop2: yep some combinations do not work with all the pins the same size
04:30 PM JT-Shop2: any width less that 2 x kerf
04:30 PM JT-Shop2: I think
04:31 PM JT-Shop2: maybe 1.5 x kerf
04:31 PM JT-Shop2: that's what I had figured out in my spreadsheet :(
04:31 PM Tom_L: mmm... wood not metal
04:32 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/CenterKeyedBoxJoint2.png
04:32 PM JT-Shop2: wood tastes better
04:32 PM roycroft: there you go
04:32 PM JT-Shop2: that's not possible
04:32 PM Tom_L: shavings don't hurt as much when you step on them barefoot either
04:33 PM JT-Shop2: center pin can't be bigger than 2 x kerf or something like that
04:33 PM roycroft: oh
04:33 PM roycroft: so you need a narrower board
04:33 PM roycroft: or a wider cutter
04:33 PM JT-Shop2: no way to register the center cut wider than 2 x kerf
04:33 PM roycroft: wider cutter is probably easier to do with the same sizs board
04:37 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/CenterKeyedBoxJoint3.png
04:37 PM roycroft: how about that one?
04:38 PM JT-Shop2: ok I remember now width / kerf must be an odd number <= n.5
04:40 PM JT-Shop2: that will work it's 11.4 pins
04:40 PM JT-Shop2: 7.375 will not work with 0.625 kerf :)
04:41 PM JT-Shop2: now that's resolved time to wander inside for the night I guess
04:41 PM roycroft: anyway, that app lets you adjust things pretty easil
04:41 PM roycroft: easily
04:41 PM roycroft: i don't use the incra templates at all any more for box joints - i just use pyRouterJig for everything
04:41 PM JT-Shop2: enter two numbers in my spreadsheet and I get my answer
04:42 PM roycroft: it has the added advantage of generating a template for clamping cauls as well, which really helps with glue-ups
04:42 PM roycroft: yeah, your jig is more constrained than mine, so it may be easier to just use a spreadsheet
04:42 PM JT-Shop2: yep
04:43 PM roycroft: pyRouterJig can also do double box joints
04:43 PM roycroft: i'm not a fan of them myself, but it's interesting that it does them
04:46 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/DoubleBoard.png
04:47 PM roycroft: so you cut A on the top board, then B on the middle one, glue the middle one to the top one, then cut C, then D
04:47 PM roycroft: again, not my thing at all
04:50 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:56 PM roycroft: the way jonathan katz-moses does it the width of the center pin does not matter at all
04:56 PM roycroft: in fact, it can be narrower than the other pins if you want to do it the opposite way
04:57 PM roycroft: well, that would be a little problematic, and would require hand cutting the center socet
04:57 PM roycroft: socket
05:08 PM JT-Cave: hmm filezilla is totally messed up in debian 13 with some crazy small fonts and overlapping objects
05:22 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:26 PM JT-Cave: too bad jonathan katz-moses doesn't mention that he copied that from incra cd that comes with the box joint jit
05:26 PM JT-Cave: jig
05:29 PM roycroft: that doesn't sound like him
05:29 PM JT-Cave: he said he invented the center pin box joint but it's on the CD that came with the tool he's using...
05:30 PM roycroft: that jig is actually more interesting to me, now that i've looked at it some more
05:30 PM roycroft: i know i can cut box joints way faster on the table saw than the router table
05:30 PM JT-Cave: going to reinstall debian 11 here because 12 and 13 offer no advantages any more
05:31 PM roycroft: and i've thought about how to mount my incra jig on my table saw to cut them that way, but aligning the fence to be perfectly parallel to the blade is not so simple
05:31 PM roycroft: if i'm making evenly spaced box joint fingers, the incra i-jig might be worth getting even though i already have the incra jig
05:31 PM JT-Cave: bbl
05:32 PM * roycroft doesn't want to spend another $200 and have to find room to store another jig, but may end up doing so eventually
05:37 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:38 PM JT-Cave: hmm that didn't work... format sd then restore image maybe
05:40 PM JT-Cave: for evenly spaced box joints the incra box jig is sweet
05:41 PM JT-Cave: and you can tune the fit of the pins to get the exact fit you like
05:42 PM JT-Cave: once you tune the fit it's set for any size kerf
05:45 PM JT-Cave: if width / kerf results in an odd number.0 to odd number.5 your good to go for a center pin box joint
05:45 PM roycroft: the incra jig can also be tuned on the router table, but it requires double cutting everything
05:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: another rpi4 replacement: https://wiki.banana-pi.org/Banana_Pi_BPI-M6
05:46 PM roycroft: and even if i get the i-box jig i'll continue to use the incra jig
05:46 PM roycroft: for the very reason that i want to be able to cut a finger 1/8" wider than the rest to account for the kerf when i cut a box apart
05:46 PM roycroft: that's something i anticipate doing quite frequently
05:47 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://linuxgizmos.com/popcorn-computer-sips-integrate-sdram-and-allwinner-a33-a133-cpus/ a133 has arm cores and ddr in the same package
06:17 PM skunkworks: but will it run crisis?
06:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 😄
06:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: all the hard stuff about PCB layout with CPU's is done for you
06:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you just have to deal with IO, power and if you want PCIe, you'll have a bit of learning to do there
06:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: got 50-60 various NOS Radio Shack switches for 25 cents ea at Hobby Town
06:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: NOS (new old stock)
06:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: felt like the 70's again
06:35 PM roycroft: it is possible that jonathan never watched the video and thinks he came up with the idea himself
06:35 PM roycroft: where i grew up we had an allied radio store
06:35 PM roycroft: it turned into allied radio shack some time in the '70s
06:36 PM roycroft: and that's when it all started going downhill
06:36 PM roycroft: they started selling finished goods instead of kits and components
06:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we used to go to Allied radio on Western Ave
06:38 PM roycroft: well, i don't have to pick splunge
06:38 PM roycroft: the match was a draw
06:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://chicagology.com/silentmovies/alliedradio/
06:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you could purchase a TV to watch M. Python there
06:39 PM roycroft: those early knight kit radios were made by atwater-kent
06:39 PM roycroft: it's obvious looking at them
06:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: we lived a few blocks for there in the 60's, rough part of town
06:41 PM roycroft: yeah, i've been to that part of chicago
06:41 PM roycroft: never to the allied store though
06:41 PM roycroft: but i've been on north western avenue
06:41 PM roycroft: so it was 1971 when it became allied radio shack
06:41 PM roycroft: i'll blame nixon for that ;)
06:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: now it's all rehabbed townhomes and condos
06:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: at least he wasn't a crook :)
06:43 PM roycroft: other than a layover at midway a week before 9/11 (my last flight), the last time i was in chicago was in 1996
06:43 PM roycroft: and things had changed a lot even then since i lived there
06:43 PM roycroft: old town had certainly lost its charm by then
06:43 PM roycroft: and the loop was a scary place to be after 5pm
06:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lots of change from 70's to 90's and even more so since the 90's
06:44 PM roycroft: i remember when the prudential building was the tallest building in the city
06:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: old town was pretty much over by the early 80's
06:44 PM roycroft: then they built that hancock tower thing
06:44 PM roycroft: i worked with some guys who were roofers at the hancock center build
06:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah , my mom worked in it, we used to go the observation deck on the 30-something floor
06:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah 68-71-ish for that
06:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the city has changed dramatically in the past 15-20 years that I have been out of it, rehabbs, gentrification, etc
06:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some areas took quite a while to turn around
06:47 PM roycroft: oh, actually, the board of trade building is 4 feet taller than the prudential building
06:48 PM roycroft: the board of trade building is now the 52nd tallest building in chicago
06:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: https://i.imgur.com/biUZ1fQ.jpg
06:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.imgur.com/6yMZSca.jpg
06:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: '67 snowstorm
06:49 PM roycroft: i remember that snowstorm well
06:50 PM roycroft: there was a a city park right behind our house
06:50 PM roycroft: and we didn't have a fence yet
06:50 PM roycroft: the snowdrifts blew up from the park onto the back of the house, all the way up to the roof
06:51 PM roycroft: i remember we were able to go out the front door, around the side, crawl up the snow drifts and walk onto the roof
06:51 PM roycroft: which somehow did not collapse
06:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ^^ Huron St near Damen and Chicago
06:51 PM roycroft: if that much snow fell here everyone's roof would collapse
06:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: at least the city didn't burn down again
06:53 PM roycroft: https://twit.social/@jann/109406915184111558
06:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: spent a few hours driving near the city today, I really don't miss the traffic
06:56 PM roycroft: i should see if the mail has arrived
06:57 PM roycroft: the usps are not sending me emails when they deliver the mail any more
06:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: McMaster was open
06:57 PM roycroft: and the rest of the components for my vacuum manifold are to arrive today
06:57 PM roycroft: it would be nice to assemble that this afternoon
06:58 PM roycroft: i would not mind going to a cubs game
06:59 PM roycroft: but not at night
06:59 PM roycroft: that's just so wrong i can't comprehend it
06:59 PM roycroft: but other than that i'm not really interested in going back to chicago again
06:59 PM roycroft: maybe when the presidential library is open it would be nice to check that out
07:02 PM roycroft: oh, this john morsley fellow has done even more
07:02 PM roycroft: how have i not heard of him before?
07:02 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmrMuwcpKkY
07:02 PM roycroft: tuvok, the vessel's vulcan
07:05 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7s7X9LdNDs&list=PLHT79nKoWWtSLLpO25Ekgs8PKwaPA5eE0
07:05 PM roycroft: there's the whole trekmas playlist
07:40 PM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
08:05 PM roycroft: and i just ran out of yellow teflon pipe tape
08:05 PM roycroft: even if i wanted to go get some, jerry's closed 3 minutes ago
08:05 PM roycroft: i guess i'll finish the manifold tomorrow
11:17 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ