#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 13 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:43 AM Deejay: moin
02:48 AM pere: hi. did anyone here test the automatic pid tuning? I've tried to document the procedure in <URL: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/2130/files > and would like feedback if the text is understandable.
04:01 AM xxcodery75 is now known as xxcodery
05:00 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:00 AM travis_farmer: G'Morning
05:33 AM Tom_L: morning
05:34 AM travis-farmer is now known as travis_farmer
07:27 AM JT-Cave: MesactBB: commands
07:27 AM MesactBB: Buildbot commands: commands, dance, destroy, force, hello, help, hustle, join, last, leave, list, mute, notify, shutdown, source, status, stop, unmute, version, watch
07:28 AM JT-Cave: MesactBB: help notify
07:28 AM MesactBB: Usage: notify on|off|list [_EVENT_] ... - notify me about build events; event should be one or more of: 'started', 'finished', 'failure', 'success', 'exception', 'problem', 'recovery', 'better', or 'worse'
07:29 AM JT-Cave: MesactBB: notify on started finished failure
07:29 AM MesactBB: Only channel operators can change notified events for this channel. And you, jt-cave, are neither!
07:32 AM JT-Cave: MesactBB: notify on started finished failure
07:32 AM MesactBB: Only channel operators can change notified events for this channel. And you, jt-cave, are neither!
07:48 AM travis_farmer: your own bot not listening to you JT? ;)
07:52 AM xxcodery: JT-Cave think you need to op up first
07:53 AM JT-Cave: dunno how
07:53 AM xxcodery: its /msg nickserv #linuxcnc op JT-Cave or something
07:54 AM JT-Cave: ok
07:54 AM xxcodery: order may be wrong
07:56 AM JT-Cave: Invalid NickServ command.
07:56 AM xxcodery: command hmm try op first
07:58 AM xxcodery: sorry cant help much, very tired now lol insomia sucks
08:01 AM JT-Cave: np
08:02 AM xxcodery: think its /msg nickserv op #linuxcnc nick
08:03 AM travis_farmer: chanserv
08:03 AM xxcodery: ahh yes chanserv
08:04 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +o by ChanServ
08:04 AM xxcodery: yay
08:05 AM JT-Cave: wow a green light
08:05 AM JT-Cave: mesactbb: force build
08:05 AM mesactbb: Thou shall not pass, jt-cave!!!
08:05 AM travis_farmer: LOL
08:05 AM JT-Cave: mesactbb: help
08:05 AM mesactbb: commands - list available commands
08:05 AM mesactbb: dance - dance, dance academy...
08:05 AM mesactbb: force - force a build
08:05 AM mesactbb: hello - say hello
08:05 AM mesactbb: help - give help for a command or one of it's arguments
08:05 AM mesactbb: join - join a channel
08:05 AM mesactbb: last - list last build status for a builder
08:05 AM mesactbb: leave - join a channel
08:05 AM mesactbb: list - list configured builders or workers
08:05 AM mesactbb: notify - notify me about build events
08:05 AM mesactbb: shutdown - shutdown the buildbot master
08:05 AM mesactbb: source - the source code for buildbot
08:05 AM JT-Cave: mesactbb: force
08:05 AM mesactbb: Thou shall not pass, jt-cave!!!
08:06 AM JT-Cave: mesactbb: last
08:06 AM mesactbb: `runtests`: last build 3completed successfully (50 minutes ago)
08:06 AM JT-Cave: looks like I have more to fnigerout
08:08 AM xxcodery: whats bot for anyway
08:21 AM JT-Shop: learning how to auto build when github repo changes
08:21 AM JT-Shop: starting with mesact or maybe a scratch repo
08:22 AM xxcodery: nice
08:23 AM JT-Shop: but first gotta get some heat going in the shops
08:25 AM xxcodery: yeh we don't want jtsicles
08:37 AM JT-Cave: how do I turn the green dot blue?
08:38 AM xxcodery: same message but change op to deop
08:38 AM JT-Cave: ok thanks
08:38 AM xxcodery: or just do /deop if your client has that
08:38 AM xxcodery: erm add your nick after latter command
08:39 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to -o by ChanServ
08:40 AM JT-Cave: gotta do /msg chanserv deop channel user
08:42 AM xxcodery: yeah latter is custom command to send same ting but much shorter command
08:42 AM xxcodery: not all clients has it
08:53 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, is that on your local pc?
08:58 AM Tom_L: chanserv op #linuxcnc
09:01 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +o by ChanServ
09:04 AM Tom_L: aww he removed it
09:04 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to -o by Tom_L
09:13 AM JT-Shop: yup
09:13 AM Tom_L: you figure out the build command?
09:13 AM JT-Shop: for the buildbot?
09:14 AM Tom_L: yeah
09:16 AM JT-Shop: still trying to figure out the configuration
09:17 AM JT-Cave: http://docs.buildbot.net/current/index.html
09:20 AM Tom_L: looks like the commands are quite similar
09:21 AM Tom_L: i looked at docker when i was trying to make those rpi builds and it looks like a real PITA
09:23 AM JT-Cave: glad you looked first :)
09:23 AM Tom_L: :)
09:23 AM Tom_L: i heard you thinking about it
09:23 AM JT-Cave: LOL
09:24 AM * JT-Cave warms up for round two cleaning chicken crap
10:13 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, when you get buildbot figured out let me know how :)
10:16 AM Tom_L: is it online?
10:16 AM Tom_L: i dunno about any of the settings
10:17 AM Tom_L: that might be a seb question
10:17 AM Tom_L: i skimmed thru the tutorial a little
10:17 AM Tom_L: looking for work shirts atm
10:20 AM Tom_L: did you install it on your local pc?
10:23 AM JT-Cave: yes, you install it in a python virtual environment
10:23 AM JT-Cave: http://docs.buildbot.net/current/
10:23 AM JT-Cave: http://docs.buildbot.net/current/tutorial/
10:23 AM Tom_L: or a local server
10:24 AM Tom_L: my server is way way too slow for it
10:24 AM JT-Cave: those are the current docs and #buildbot is on libera chat
10:24 AM Tom_L: is that what virtualenv is?
10:24 AM JT-Cave: right now I'm just trying to figure out how to tell if a git repo changes, not trying do a server atm
10:25 AM JT-Cave: yes
10:25 AM JT-Cave: just start with the tutorial if you have time
10:25 AM Tom_L: is yours hooked into your git repo yet?
10:25 AM JT-Cave: no, I've not got that far yet
10:25 AM Tom_L: i just pulled the tut up
10:26 AM Tom_L: what's your end game for it?
10:26 AM Tom_L: build mesact and ?
10:26 AM JT-Cave: https://github.com/jethornton/bbtest
10:26 AM JT-Cave: yep build mesact and possibly linuxcnc
10:27 AM JT-Cave: bbib gotta run to the store and git some chili fixings
10:27 AM Tom_L: i considered getting a 6 core for my spare mb and setting something up but haven't
10:27 AM Tom_L: mmm chili weather is here
10:28 AM Tom_L: i5 only comes in 6 iirc
10:28 AM Tom_L: may take a different socket though
10:29 AM JT-Shop: fixing to find out if I did a good job putting the Corvette back together or not
10:30 AM Tom_L: don't forget to take your cell with ya
10:30 AM Tom_L: :)
10:30 AM skunkworks: I have a amd 5700g and am very happy with it.. 8 core 16 threads
10:30 AM JT-Shop: yup
10:30 AM Tom_L: skunkworks, what socket?
10:30 AM Tom_L: mmm that's amd..
10:30 AM Tom_L: no amd boards here
10:30 AM skunkworks: right - am4
10:31 AM skunkworks: I think I spent about $100 on a motherboard.
10:31 AM skunkworks: decent video though on board..
10:31 AM Tom_L: mmm looks like the 8 core i7 takes a LGA1151 socket too
10:32 AM skunkworks: what do you have? for a socket?
10:32 AM Tom_L: ^^
10:32 AM skunkworks: ah - ok
10:32 AM Tom_L: i have a spare i7 i'm not using because win7 won't run on it
10:32 AM Tom_L: i5 was the last one to support win7
10:33 AM Tom_L: and i didn't want to dedicate a pc just for that
10:33 AM Tom_L: but i5 only has 6 core iirc
10:34 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:34 AM Tom_L: i7 8 core only 8 threads
10:42 AM Tom_L: pretty sure that's the best that socket will support
10:50 AM sensille: can the base thread interrupt the servo thread?
10:54 AM Tom_L: https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/16-stepconf-wizard/26934-another-question-about-max-jitter-latency-test
10:54 AM Tom_L: The base thread can (and does) interrupt the servo thread.
10:59 AM jpa-: and if you create any custom threads with the HAL "threads" module, the first one has highest priority https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/threads.9.html
11:31 AM * JT-Cave is back from town
12:09 PM sensille: i have another basic question ... motion generates a motor-pos-cmd once per ms. stepgen generates steps from that. but what if motion is slightly late? isn't there a risk of a slight gap, leading to non-smooth motion? is there some queueing going on?
01:16 PM sensille: i guess just keeping the current velocity + acceleration is good enough
03:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sensille: doesn't it have to since 1mS vs 30uS at the same time?
03:50 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, I think I have the buildbot checking a scratch github repo!
04:36 PM Tom_L: nice
04:36 PM Tom_L: didn't get much done here, been afk
04:41 PM skunkworks: me either...
04:41 PM Tom_L: we'll let JT-Shop cover for us
04:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: skunkworks: do you know anyone that can donate some VM's for LCNC buildbots?
05:01 PM roguish[m]: CaptHindsight: what ya need in VM's??? I maybe could....
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: to host LCNC buildbots
05:02 PM roguish[m]: I got that. What precisely?
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Bullseye amd64 uspace
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Bullseye amd64 RTAI
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Bullseye arm64 uspace
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Bookworm amd64 RTAI
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: enough space and cpu for ^^
05:03 PM roguish[m]: all at once?
05:03 PM Tom_L: that's generally how seb does it i think
05:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they could be rotated
05:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: one core VPS are $6/mo here https://www.interserver.net/vps/
05:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we could use a more public buildbot
05:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i think between the current dozen or so active devs it could come together pretty easily
05:08 PM roycroft: interserver are ok
05:08 PM roycroft: i like vps from vultr.com better
05:08 PM roycroft: do NOT use hostingor or hostwinds
05:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: he yeah I use interserver, but they didn't kick that referral over to you
05:09 PM roycroft: i've gotten over the referral thing
05:09 PM roycroft: i find vultr.com more reliable
05:09 PM roycroft: nagios rarely has anything to complain about with my vultr-hosted vhosts
05:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.vultr.com/pricing/#cloud-compute/ similar pricing
05:10 PM roycroft: nagios nags me regularly about my interserver vhosts
05:10 PM roycroft: i do not like it when nagios nags me
05:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Hourly Price?
05:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: can you rent a few hours a mointh?
05:11 PM roycroft: i don't think so
05:11 PM roycroft: but i think that my vultr bill for my personal domains is $9/month, and that includes a second ip address
05:11 PM roycroft: i think we pay $100/month or so for the vps for work
05:12 PM roycroft: the problem, though, with a vps is that the plans are fairly rigid
05:12 PM roycroft: what you need for a buildbot is a lot of cores, a lot of memory, little network bandwidth, and little disk
05:13 PM roycroft: the vps offerings tend to be bundles, and if you buy enough cores and memory for your buildbot you have way more disk and network i/o than you need, but you have to pay for it anyway
05:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rod on the dev list was going to ask his host for a free VPs
05:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: well the bot doesn't have to be in a hurry, a single core is good enough if that is all it does
05:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 4GB, 1 core and 20-30GB should be plenty
05:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 4GB ram
05:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 20-30GB disk
05:15 PM roguish[m]: didn't JT say he might be able to handle a buildbot ???
05:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish: he does have starlink, was he talking about hosting it at home?
05:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I am in the process of moving but i have several bare metal machines that can do it as well
05:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish: I'm not sure if JT is up for all the docker/kuber etc etc stuff
05:18 PM roguish[m]: he said it in a email to the users groupl
05:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it can be a big headache
05:18 PM roycroft: so i am interested in making a drive gear, and wonder if there is a reasonable way to machine it out of a single piece of aluminium round bar (manual machining)
05:18 PM roycroft: it is a double gear
05:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and earlier on IRC today, i just read the backlog
05:18 PM roycroft: roycroft.us/drive_gear.jepg
05:18 PM roycroft: something like that
05:19 PM roguish[m]: yeah, I could probably handle the hardware, but not sure about all the coding stuff.
05:19 PM roycroft: or if i need to make it in two pieces, what is a reasonable way to join them such that i can still stuff a shaft and some bearings in the middle
05:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish: what do you have for a network?
05:19 PM roguish[m]: intranet? or internet?
05:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish: i know people that can have the coding stuff up in no time
05:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish: can you handle a public accessed buildbot?
05:20 PM roguish[m]: get someone to write up a line by line, stupid simple how-to
05:20 PM roycroft: does the buildbot need to be fast?
05:20 PM JT-Cave: I was kind of thinking that the buildbot could be remote and just upload the debs to linuxcnc
05:20 PM roguish[m]: not sure if I would like a public access.....
05:21 PM roycroft: one of those cheap vps would be fine if you don't care if it takes a few hours to do a build
05:21 PM roguish[m]: what JT just said...
05:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: 2-4 core AMD64 made in the past 10 years is plenty fast enough
05:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Cave: upload the debs to linuxcnc where?
05:21 PM roycroft: a 2-4 core vps is going to be more like $30/month, not <$10/month
05:21 PM roycroft: the cheap vps is going to be a single core and 1-2GB of ram
05:22 PM JT-Cave: http://linuxcnc.org/dists/
05:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: oh, 4GB, 1 core and 20-30GB should be plenty
05:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 4GB ram
05:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 20-30GB disk
05:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: i have 4-6 core machines with TB's of HD and 16GB of ram just gathering dust as test machines
05:23 PM roycroft: at vultr, 1 core, 2GB ram, and 25GB disk is $6/month
05:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just enough for a single Debian instance
05:23 PM roycroft: 2 core, 2GB ram, and 60GB disk is $18/month
05:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how large is a fresh Bookworm install?
05:24 PM * JT-Cave has tucked the hens in for the night and read them a bed time story... chicken little and goes to tend the chili with an i
05:24 PM roycroft: and don't even try to run a hypervisor on a vps
05:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Cave: my concern would be your starlink connection
05:24 PM roycroft: it's already running on a hypervisor, and it gets messy when you nest hypervisors
05:24 PM JT-Cave: why
05:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and hassling you for pressing the Reset button if it hangs
05:25 PM JT-Cave: building debs does not have to be real time
05:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Cave: but if you are willing
05:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nope it doesn't have to be
05:25 PM JT-Cave: if the buildbot hangs I'll be the first to know...
05:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: a single core builds a LCNC deb in about an hour or two
05:26 PM JT-Cave: anyway we'll see how I progress with buildbot
05:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 2-3GHz cpu core
05:26 PM JT-Cave: I need upload access to http://linuxcnc.org/dists/ and I'm not sure I do atm
05:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Cave: that could even be handled by a manager
05:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it doesn't need daily updated debs
05:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Cave: see how it goes for you and if you really want that hassle
05:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://aws.amazon.com/free/?all-free-tier.sort-by=item.additionalFields.SortRank&all-free-tier.sort-order=asc&awsf.Free%20Tier%20Types=tier%23always-free%7Ctier%2312monthsfree&awsf.Free%20Tier%20Categories=categories%23compute
05:49 PM roguish[m]: CaptHindsight: if ya go commercial, like AWS, it's gonna take some $$$$
05:49 PM Tom_L: who would need access to the pc on a buildbot slave?
05:51 PM roguish[m]: and what ever goes on, it should be coordinated with seb, and steffan, and pere, and probably a few more....
05:52 PM roguish[m]: it's time for a little formal management and organization.
05:56 PM * roycroft thinks you should just get a vps at vultr for the buildbot and be done with it
05:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: everyone knows
05:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some are just too busy or removed to be involved
05:57 PM roycroft: tell me where to send the $$ and i'll kick in a few months worth of hosting
05:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rod W is checking with his host for free space
05:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lets hear back from him and how JT does with trying to build a bot
05:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish: AWS has some free sevices for a year. 750 hours a month for $0 first year for a compute setup
05:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it just needs open access to a few devs
06:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish: yes, i am trying to coordinate with them but Andy only has so much free time and they weren't even responding initially
06:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and how much time do you spend coordinating with silence before you just get a new bot up and openly available?
06:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm not sure if everyone is just busy or just not wanting to confront the issues
06:03 PM roguish[m]: CaptHindsight: ok, sounds fine. i've been concerned for a while that the logins and keys and such for the website, and forum, and git, and all are too distributed and no one really knows who can do what...... it would be good to get it all coordinated. and it seems like this is a good time to do that.
06:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's a buildbot and not a fork to machkit :)
06:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, lets just sort it all out and move on
06:04 PM roycroft: and 750 hour of training to figure out how to make aws work
06:04 PM roycroft: with amazon changing the documentation and user interface faster than you can learn it
06:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some near here do it all the time
06:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah, just an option
06:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: plain jane VPS with a decent internet connection is enough
06:43 PM CloudEvil: CaptHindsight[m]: Depending on stuff, if you are using low enough usage, google can be free forever.
06:44 PM CloudEvil: CaptHindsight[m]: For example, this instance is on a shell account on google which is remaining within the 'always free' tier after the free trial
06:44 PM CloudEvil: Some ten gigs or few of disk, gig or two of RAM, one underpowered CPU all the time and modest tranfer limits
06:48 PM roycroft: and google can turn you off or change their terms of service at any time, without notice, and they have done that many times in the past
07:33 PM CloudEvil: Don't disagree with that.
09:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/JIUXJ-4-Inch-Pneumaticmatic-3-Jaw_1600471362296.html
09:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: doesn't need to have the strength and precision for metals
09:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but it does need to actually be reliable
09:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: anyone seen any roughly this size with a through bore of 40mm min?
10:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: did you take the drive gear pic down? Doesn't load here
10:29 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: ooh pneumatic chuck
10:29 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: i need to stop being a chicken and start chopping wires on my mill retrofit
10:30 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: i wanna see an axis move
10:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looking for low cost low precision through hole pneumatic chucks
10:40 PM srk| is now known as srk
10:50 PM roycroft: it's still there
10:50 PM roycroft: roycroft.us/drive_gear.jpeg
10:51 PM roycroft: and i'm thinking i need to make two gears and connect them
11:15 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: so i made a morse taper cleaning tool on my resin printer
11:15 PM * JoseIgnacioRomer uploaded an image: (367KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/aWbcOHccXCcZHypUSANFbUbU/image.png >
11:16 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: it works! got some chips that were deep inside the taper
11:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: ok now i see it
11:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: using the chat on alibaba is exhausting
11:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "what does horizontal mean?"
11:39 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (2KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/CiLuUWpNadzaOckxhOkmBNHE/horiz-vs-vert00.png >
11:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah i have to send pics to clarify even though they do speak some English
11:40 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (2KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/uOmQeahcPsmEXrvhvnHgexMf/bar00.png >
11:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: need to hold this ^^ horizontally on a lathe
11:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rod got us a free VPN for the buildbot
11:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: \0/
11:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heh sorry VPS, VPN is something else