#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 31 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:31 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:08 AM sensille: Loetmichel: https://www.usovo.de/p/werkzeugwechsler-china-spindel-1
02:45 AM Deejay: moin
03:32 AM sensille: Loetmichel: or this: https://hackaday.com/2016/06/20/hackaday-prize-entry-diy-automatic-tool-changer/
04:06 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning, 33F with a high of 63F.
04:56 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:24 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:32 AM mrec: which cpu load is axis supposed to have?
05:33 AM mrec: something seems to be wrong here
05:33 AM mrec: 64%
05:33 AM mrec: and the ui seems to act a bit sluggish
05:33 AM mrec: it's doing some work now so I can't restart
05:41 AM satiowadahc1171[: Can change display-cycle for adjusting its cause usage
05:41 AM satiowadahc1171[: In your ini
05:41 AM jpa-: for me it is just a few percent with defaults
05:42 AM jpa-: but i guess if you have a bazillion of g-code lines with 1 micron increments, it could take more
05:47 AM mrec: no I toggled the controller, and some sensors were toggled due to that.
05:48 AM mrec: my fixture was loose and the stock moved 1mm .. oh dear.
05:50 AM mrec: zillion g-code .. just looping between line 80-110 :-)
05:54 AM Tom_L: morning
05:55 AM mrec: 6 minutes left I'll restart afterwards
06:14 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i went thru some of the bit files and took a few notes ^^
06:26 AM JT-Cave: good, the 7i80 bit files are cornfusing to me
06:26 AM Tom_L: i didn't go thru those much
06:27 AM Tom_L: other than the ones with a 7i47s which isn't the same as a 7i47 they confuse me too
06:28 AM Tom_L: i don't think that many ppl use that card tbh
06:28 AM Tom_L: haven't heard much chat about it at least other than roguish
06:28 AM travis_farmer[m]: i use the 7i80...
06:28 AM Tom_L: now he pipes up..
06:29 AM Tom_L: travis_farmer[m], what daughter cards/bitfiles?
06:30 AM travis_farmer[m]: no daughter cards, just breakout boards with screw terminals. 7i80hd_16_svst8_4.bit
06:30 AM Tom_L: servo or stepper?
06:31 AM travis_farmer[m]: stepper
06:31 AM mrec: ok still sluggish probably too many iterations
06:36 AM travis_farmer[m]: i haven't chatted much about it or tested much, as i had a recent medical operation, and i can't sit at my CNC computer desk for very long (hemorrhoidectomy).
07:12 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, support for 7i92T has been added and the version is now 1.1.0
07:25 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:44 AM mrec: does anyone know about a way to treat the A axis like a Y axis for linear milling?
07:44 AM mrec: (I'm just having some "incomplete" ideas about that right now
07:44 AM mrec: I'm milling some special sprockets and the speed is soso..
07:44 AM JT-Cave: change it to V
08:06 AM Tom_L: v?
08:06 AM Tom_L: oh..
08:07 AM Tom_L: is T the new 7i92?
08:17 AM Tom_L: can't test that one
08:25 AM JT-Cave: yes
08:25 AM Tom_L: updating now
08:26 AM JT-Cave: the only difference is the firmware, the configuration will be the same as the 7i92
08:26 AM Tom_L: ok
08:30 AM Tom_L: make a note that it requires mesaflash 3.4.6
08:34 AM Tom_L: error: boards.py line 35 no such directory
08:35 AM Tom_L: /usr/lib/libmesact/7i92t
08:35 AM * Tom_L waits to build the rpi debs
08:38 AM JT-Shop: I forgot to add it to debian install... I bet
08:41 AM Tom_L: lemme know when i can pull
08:42 AM Tom_L: got a few.. late start today
08:51 AM JT-Cave: fixed, tested and pushed
08:51 AM Tom_L: dl and testing..
08:51 AM * Tom_L reboots first. doesn't work in winders
08:53 AM solarwind: Just a random survey, what do all your daily kWh usage come to?
08:55 AM solarwind: Mine comes to about 70 in the workshop with my server rack and other things on
08:55 AM solarwind: and the "delivery" charge is more expensive than the actual rate
08:56 AM Tom_L: ok now bookworm won't boot
08:56 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Depends on what I am doing. Tends to average out to 100kWh/day when I am in the shop.
08:57 AM Tom_L: must be monday
08:58 AM solarwind: What the hell is up with that "delivery" rate anyway
08:59 AM solarwind: I want to go off grid, so I've been tracking my usage
08:59 AM solarwind: I can just run a power cord from my neighbour to keep the batteries topped up on cloudy days
08:59 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Delivery is made up of a few things but one big factor is the losses in the grid bringing the power to you.
08:59 AM solarwind: Isn't constant for everyone?
09:01 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: No. It scales with usage. It also depends on your powerfactor but that doesn't apply to residential customers.
09:12 AM Tom_L: ok got that back mostly
09:30 AM Tom_L: PR #41
09:34 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, zip back also works
09:35 AM Tom_L: *backup
09:40 AM JT-Shop: thanks
09:44 AM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] yeah that delivery charge doesn't include power factor calculations. I'm an industrial customer
09:44 AM solarwind: They have a separate section for calculating kVA, but that's nowhere near the delivery charge
09:44 AM solarwind: My loss factor adjustment is only 3%
09:45 AM solarwind: Most of my power usage is from servers and other power supplies with active PFC
09:58 AM rmu: losses in the grid are not that high usually, should be only a couple %
09:59 AM roycroft: the cost per kw/h is the cost of generating the power itself, i.e. the wind farm, hydro dam, etc.
09:59 AM roycroft: the delivery charge is the cost of transporting that power to your power meter
10:00 AM roycroft: that includes both the operational charge and the amortized cost of the infrastructure
10:00 AM roycroft: power grids are very expensive to build
10:01 AM rmu: please kWh, please. using kW/h is analog to using acceleration instead of distance.
10:01 AM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: " the "delivery" charge is more expensive than the actual rate" it is similar here
10:02 AM solarwind: Overall not that bad. I have to see how the delivery scales with usage
10:02 AM CaptHindsight[m]: similar with natural gas,I left a pilot light on this summer vs just shut the gas off and we still got charged ~$70/mo
10:02 AM roycroft: if we would generate our power closer to where we use it the cost of delivery could be less than the cost of generation
10:03 AM rmu: also you pay for the fact that you can draw power at any time and make it someone else's problem to generate that power exactly at that moment
10:03 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Scaling the delivery with usage is just a way to allocate costs more fairly.
10:03 AM rmu: dealing with all that load variation
10:03 AM roycroft: and that's not as simple to do as folks generally think, because there is very little storage capability
10:04 AM roycroft: it really has to be adjusted in real time
10:04 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: As a small user, if they went to a flat fee for delivery you would pay MUCH more.
10:04 AM solarwind: Hmmm makes sense
10:04 AM solarwind: Solar + battery overall would be cheaper over a 10 year period
10:05 AM rmu: there are a bunch of conrol loops with different speeds at work
10:05 AM roycroft: yes
10:05 AM roycroft: because your delivery cost would be almost zero
10:05 AM roycroft: assuming your solar panels are near the building you're powering with them
10:06 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I haven't run the numbers recently but last time I did, it would be very hard to get a solar+battery system to pay back in a 10 year period. Solar only with a grid tie system was pretty good though.
10:07 AM CaptHindsight[m]: even if your electric storage is your neighbors Tesla?
10:08 AM roycroft: we're likely going to have our first frost this week
10:09 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Someone still has to pay for the Tesla. I wouldn't argue against the idea of the distributed power plant that uses randomly connected batteries (teslas) but a dedicated pack is hard to make work unless you are remote from the grid.
10:09 AM CaptHindsight[m]: we have dipped below 0C a few nights this month
10:11 AM CaptHindsight[m]: has anyone hacked the Tesla free charging stations to get power at the grocery stores parking lot and then trailer it home?
10:11 AM CaptHindsight[m]: would seem like a thing to do with rates today
10:12 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That would be amazingly difficult to get a positive rate of return on. I can imaging someone doing it but the easiest and cheapest way would be just to use a tesla as the pack 🙂
10:13 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I would think the gas to get you to/from the station would offset the value quite a bit.
10:20 AM * roycroft thinks that an advocate for unfettered "free speech", no matter what the consequences, should logically be an advocated for unfettered "free power", no matter the consequences, and therefore, the tesla batteries should be free for all to use
10:25 AM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] what encoder are you using on your spindle?
10:26 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: It is the magnetic 1024ppr encoder built into the Yaskawa motor.
10:27 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I use a component to scale to account for the different gear ratios.
10:27 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Plus some trickery with the spindle position sensor to get the home position for tool changes.
10:29 AM solarwind: I want to see your setup haha
10:29 AM solarwind: This is the one you have at home?
10:32 AM * ZincBoy[CAON][m] uploaded an image: (946KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/UxDwLgpBZvUFTJyLwBNvGjnJ/IMG_0871.jpg >
10:32 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yup. My home shop 🙂
10:33 AM Tom_L: nice..
10:33 AM Tom_L: barely fits..
10:34 AM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] that looks very similar to my LeBlond Makino
10:34 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The Z barely fits for sure. Had to take off the Z servo encoder to get it under the door.
10:34 AM solarwind: I just have to install the MESA cards and clean it up
10:35 AM Tom_L: when my bud started in his garage we had to remove the z head as well
10:35 AM Tom_L: and cut a hole in the celing
10:38 AM JoseIgnacioRomer: Im hoping to have some time to play with the mesa card i just bought sometime soon
10:40 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Luckily the ceiling is high enough. Just the door that it had to squeeze though.
10:43 AM travis_farmer[m]: i remember when i moved from printer port to Mesa card... such a pleasure to work with, i have never looked back. 😄
10:43 AM travis_farmer[m]: as far as machine fitting... i had to remove my X stepper for my machine to slide through the door of it's current home. i now question how i will move the machine when i finish my new shed. the machine hardware is seized in place (soft aluminum fasteners, with stripped heads 😦 )
10:48 AM * ZincBoy[CAON][m] uploaded an image: (1317KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/jauriarts.org/GsopzyFOHJBYWuNrpKdQfdGV/IMG_0414.jpg >
10:48 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Mesa cards in my system. I started with parallel port control on my first machine and went to the Mesa cards on my next. So much better.
10:59 AM justHaunted is now known as DeliriumTremens_
11:11 AM Tom_L: JoseIgnacioRomer, you know about mesact right?
11:12 AM JoseIgnacioRomer: Yep
11:12 AM Tom_L: ZincBoy[CAON][m], looks neater than mine
11:12 AM Tom_L: JoseIgnacioRomer, was an update to it this morning
11:13 AM Tom_L: in case you already grabbed it
11:14 AM Tom_L: ZincBoy[CAON][m], 7i80?
11:14 AM Tom_L: maybe not.. that top one looked like one at first
11:20 AM Thorhian[m]: Marco Reps is back with more LinuxCNC content. https://youtu.be/FEPfznStd0s
11:30 AM DeliriumTremens_ is now known as justache
11:32 AM travis_farmer[m]: ZinkBoy's card looks like a 7i98, if i had to guess, Tom_L
12:33 PM roycroft: woo hoo
12:33 PM roycroft: my new chainsaw is ready to pick up
12:40 PM CloudEvil: :)
12:48 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, 7i98 with a 7i77D, 7i74, 2x 7i84D, and 7i73.
01:17 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: I wish i was a famous youtuber so i could get ethercat servos for free
01:37 PM * pere wished famous youtubers would stop selling out. :)
01:38 PM djdelorie: Remember, if offered the choice of fame or fortune, choose fortune. You can always buy fame.
01:47 PM travis_farmer[m]: i am a non-famous youtuber... and nobody sends me anything free... kind of have hopes of an ATC spindle being donated at some point 😉
01:48 PM djdelorie: I got an ATC spindle sent to me, and all I had to do was send them the full retail price... Win!
01:53 PM travis_farmer[m]: LOL
02:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: "woo hoo" a new brand?
02:12 PM Thorhian[m]: You guys have something against Marco? He is the reason I even considered building my own CNC Mill. Mechatron though… I’ve had a difficult time emailing them. Also, even their fancy ATC spindles are vulnerable to flood cooling.
02:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Thorhian: i like his accent
02:14 PM roycroft: the new saw is great
02:14 PM roycroft: i just compaired it to my old one - an 18" poulan
02:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the thicker the accent the better
02:14 PM roycroft: the poulan was ok, but the new one is so much more powerful - way more of a difference than i thought it would be
02:14 PM roycroft: the poulan is 42cc, and the echo is 59cc
02:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he cuts down tress he eats his lunch....
02:16 PM Thorhian[m]: Question is, will you mount it to a large 6/7 axis robot arm and have it cut things roycroft. Powered by LinuxCNC of course.
02:16 PM djdelorie: the next question is, is the saw powered by a stepper or a servo?
02:16 PM * roycroft goes to the lavoratory
02:17 PM roycroft: i was ok with the poulan for what i was doing, but it has a big problem that all poulan owners complain about
02:17 PM roycroft: it won't idle when it's warmed up
02:17 PM roycroft: and if i adjust the jets so that it will idle when warmed up, it won't start cold
02:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i don't get the problem with Step/Dir, old is not a problem and noise is not an issue over a short distance when wired properly
02:18 PM roycroft: so i'll traide it for a portrait of ulysses s grant and let someone else deal with that
02:19 PM roycroft: if i build a bandsaw mill i might add some form of numeric control to the height adjustment
02:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: EtherCAT makes sense on a big machine
02:20 PM roycroft: so we may see a linuxcnc-driven sawmill at some point
02:20 PM roycroft: although that may be overkill
02:20 PM djdelorie: a linux-driven house printer
02:20 PM roycroft: but it could be fun, nevertheless
02:20 PM roycroft: i believe that exists, djdelorie
02:20 PM djdelorie: or one of those rocket-printing robots
02:20 PM roycroft: there's some guy in the netherlands who built some giant 3d printers and was printing housing modules with it
02:20 PM djdelorie: yeah, but does it use ethercat?
02:21 PM roycroft: no, it uses smellycat
02:21 PM Thorhian[m]: If you want to control servos step/dir kind of sucks in my newbie point of view.
02:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "I don't want to use CNC machines since they use combinations of ancient tech like, wheels, axles, screws etc etc,"
02:22 PM djdelorie: I have an "ancient tech" lathe that still works just fine (100 year old southbend)
02:22 PM travis_farmer[m]: is it steam powered? 😉
02:22 PM djdelorie: It could have been. In the 1940's it was converted from overhead belt drive to motor drive
02:23 PM djdelorie: (still with the belts, just, local power source)
02:23 PM Loetmichel: sensille: have you seen the price tag on the usovo? thats 2/3 of a whole CNC 6040
02:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Thorhian: servo controllers 10-20 years ago used analog +- 10V, they moved to Step/Dir more recently
02:23 PM travis_farmer[m]: maybe oxen on a turn-stile 😉
02:23 PM Loetmichel: not to mention the heap of collets you need
02:23 PM roycroft: it could have originally been mule-driven
02:24 PM djdelorie: http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/IMG_20210523_213256.html
02:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 3/4 hp
02:25 PM Thorhian[m]: So if a real industrial machine isn’t using something proprietary or something like ethercat, it’s probably using step/dir for their servos and sometimes linear motors?
02:35 PM travis_farmer[m]: nice machine, djdelorie!
02:35 PM djdelorie: I think I asked this before, but if linuxcnc is "in the loop" for the servos, does it take advantage of its extra knowledge of the servo's actual position?
02:35 PM djdelorie: travis_farmer[m]: thanks! It belonged to my father in law, who got it from a friend, who got it post WWII. So it's very well maintained.
02:35 PM djdelorie: when I got it, though, I had to promise my wife it wouldn't turn into a CNC experiment :-)
02:35 PM djdelorie: (I have a cheap chinese lathe for that ;)
02:35 PM Thorhian[m]: Seeing as you can do PID tuning in LCNC I’d imagine it definitely can be used.
02:35 PM djdelorie: I was wondering if the pid tuning didn't talk to the path planning to adapt on the fly
02:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Thorhian: there are linear stepper as well as servos, modern servo drives use Step/Dir or some factory bus
02:35 PM roycroft: does 3/4hp make it pony powered?
02:35 PM * djdelorie was thinking of the voron anti-harmonics software that adapts to vibrations in the print head
02:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: mule/pony
02:35 PM Thorhian[m]: I’m not really interested in stepper linear motors lol, although that does sound interesting.
02:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: djdelorie: closed loop in LCNC requires feedback from some type of encoder
02:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so yes LCNC has to know its position
02:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.imgur.com/EAF5oPj.jpg one example, they control the airbrush
02:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so you can modulate the spray and pattern
02:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or as a micropositioner for things like a laser, microscope etc
02:42 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: @djdelorie, by default LinuxCNC only uses the position feedback information to close the position loop. It does not use the info for anything else. The amount the joints are allowed to get out of sync is limited by the following error setting. If the following error gets above that value, the system will fault and estop.
02:43 PM djdelorie: ah
02:44 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The voron system is essentially a 3 or 4th order path planner and does not rely on feedback either. The accelerometer is only used to determine optimal jerk/snap/crackle/pop limits for the tool path. (I don't know what level the planner actually is)
02:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC can use the position feedback for other things that you program it to do outside of the servo loop, but you have to program or use HAL to do so
02:45 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: For sure it can. But by default it does not.
02:46 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: LinuxCNC is also limited by the 2nd order path planning and only 3 linear axis lookahead.
02:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: djdelorie: LCNC is flexible enough to not only run typical CNC machines but also all sorts of other automation
02:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: especially where you have synchronized motion
02:47 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: It is fine for most use cases but high inertia systems and >3axis runs into limitations.
02:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some just use HAL and openladder
02:48 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I built a nerf sentry gun using HAL and opencv 🙂
02:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: djdelorie: look at LCNC like a toolbox of motion control
02:50 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, it is amazing for creating custom systems. It has a level of power and ease of use that is hard to beat. Even comparing it to the $$$ solutions.
02:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: openCV is a good example, you can use image processing as part of the feedback to say find the dge or corner of an object and then position the machine to it
02:53 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (124KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/UOyHgjNEwsRRsSnMuWFLyUpF/usb-edgedetect01.jpg >
02:53 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (75KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/QNBxsvpGbjjUfoJvSMiytlTm/4thouvga01.jpg >
02:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: at a known distance from the lens to the part surface each pixel represents a known distance XY, so a camera can be an encoder
02:56 PM travis_farmer[m]: now that looks cool! ...
03:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like a Sobel edge detect filter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobel_operator
03:20 PM travis_farmer[m]: not finding any info about OpenCV in the lcnc docs... just camview-emc
03:21 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: OpenCV is a separate package that cane be used to build components for LinuxCNC.
03:21 PM travis_farmer[m]: oh...
03:24 PM sensille: Loetmichel: yeah, but below $1000. and i don't want a second 6040 :)
03:24 PM xxcodery: cpt thats cool but not sure if it could keep up
03:38 PM Thorhian[m]: Or tool path algorithms…
04:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/45583-opencv-with-linuxcnc-2-8-0
04:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: xxcodery: if what can keep up?
04:14 PM travis_farmer[m]: thank you 😄
04:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: search the forums
04:15 PM travis_farmer[m]: will do, thanks. (i keep forgetting the forums...)
04:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: it the most active of LCNC social spaces on the intertubes
04:17 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, i used to post there a lot (travis036) but then i discovered this, and that was that, for the most part...
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: xxcodery: you're here more than I am
04:19 PM xxcodery: not talking about you ro me, but that camera encoder thing
04:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: xxcodery: topic #1 ,you have admin now here
04:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: xxcodery: topic #2 what about the camera thing being too slow?
04:20 PM xxcodery: "at a known distance from the lens to the part surface each pixel represents a known distance XY, so a camera can be an encoder "
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for homing or offsets
04:22 PM xxcodery: ahh yeah
04:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for rapids you'd need to have openCV in a RT thread
04:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: very possible today, not so much on a PC/AT/XT
04:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.photonfocus.com/products/camerafinder/camera/qr1-d2048x1088-384-g2/ and something like this or faster depending on how fast you want to move
04:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 1024 x 1024 358FPS
04:51 PM solarwind: Thorhian[m] thanks for the link, I was just in the middle of deciding on servo systems and the Leadshine EL7 Ethercat was on the list
04:51 PM solarwind: Nice to see him go through the setup of that system
04:53 PM solarwind: He's wrong about the complexity of the protocol though
04:53 PM solarwind: It's still almost certainly going to be run in synchronous position mode
04:54 PM solarwind: Depending on the controller anyway, but all of the ones I've seen use that mode including LinuxCNC which is why I'm writing a custom driver to run it in torque mode
04:55 PM solarwind: The Leadshine USA sales rep is a fuckin asshole though
04:56 PM solarwind: I asked him for basic specs and he's saying that's "in depth questions" and "why do you need to know that?"
04:57 PM Thorhian[m]: Wow that’s dumb.
04:58 PM solarwind: Yeah basic specs like PDO cycle time, analog sample rate, analog bandwidth
04:58 PM solarwind: DMM got back to me in like 1 hour with everything I wanted to know
04:59 PM Thorhian[m]: DMM?
04:59 PM solarwind: https://www.dmm-tech.com/index.html these guys
04:59 PM solarwind: slightly more expensive, but the specs on their DYN4 series drives are good
04:59 PM solarwind: and I don't _need_ EtherCAT, so I'm willing to pay for their stuff because they can speak English and they reply quickly
05:00 PM solarwind: Like only about $100 more expensive per axis
05:07 PM JT-Shop: FedSex seems to be having some tracking issues and delivery issues
05:08 PM xxcodery: you hear that joke about merge between ups and fedex?
05:09 PM xxcodery: the new company name is Fed-Up
05:12 PM JT-Shop: not hear that...
05:12 PM xxcodery: lol well you heard of it now :D
05:13 PM JT-Shop: my x bil had a sticker on his beer fridge FedSex if you absolutely have to have it overnight
05:13 PM xxcodery: lol
05:14 PM JT-Shop: some guy in texas is cleaning out mesaus.com and buying everything I have
05:15 PM xxcodery: great way to test if you inventoried everything correctly
05:15 PM JT-Shop: yep
05:15 PM JT-Shop: I should go put the 7i80HD-16 into inventory so he can buy it
06:30 PM roycroft: it appears that the deluge has finally commenced
06:31 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, you have some of those?
06:31 PM Tom_L: 7i80
06:32 PM Tom_L: maybe he's gonna create a frenzy and mark them way up
06:33 PM roycroft: that's kind of what i'm thinking
06:34 PM roycroft: there are going to be some mesa boards offered for sale at premium prices soon
06:53 PM xxcodery: or rip chips out and sell em to car companies
06:53 PM xxcodery: or IS car company buying all to get chips
06:56 PM Tom_L: they should go back to carburetors and manual transmissions etc
06:57 PM Tom_L: i'd love to see some of these drivers manage that
07:09 PM roycroft: manual transmissions are good - the are more efficient than most automatic transmissions, and generally much more reliable
07:09 PM roycroft: reverting from fuel injection to carburetors would be a giant leap backwards
07:09 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not any time in the last 20 years.
07:10 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: There is a reason that the manual transmission option always has a worse fuel economy.
07:11 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: While a manual transmission is theoretically more efficient, the drive is not.
07:11 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: driver not drive
07:11 PM roycroft: well my pickup is 20 years old, and the manual transmission options both have better rated fuel economoy than the automatic transmission option
07:11 PM roycroft: that's my newest vehicle, and i'm not really a motorhead, so i can't speak for the last 20 years
07:12 PM roycroft: i'll trust that you are correct that automatic transmission technology has improved things in that time
07:12 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, the auto transmissions have gotten way better. Doesn't mean they are pleasant to drive though.
07:12 PM roycroft: i've gotten used to them
07:12 PM roycroft: my prius would just be silly with a manual transmission
07:13 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I really like the auto in my truck but would hate one in my car.
07:13 PM roycroft: and i don't even think it could work, since the "transfer case" is a big planetary gear that is driven by both the motor and the engine
07:14 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I could never understand why people would want a manual transmission in a tow vehicle. The torque converter makes everything so much nicer.
07:14 PM roycroft: i'm pretty used to manual transmissions in pickups
07:14 PM roycroft: being able to feather the clutch can be really useful
07:15 PM roycroft: but i'm not too upset with the automatic transmission in my new pickup
07:15 PM roycroft: if i put it into low 4wd and 1st gear, it pretty much just idles with my foot off the accelerator
07:16 PM roycroft: and i have pretty good control with the accelerator pedal
07:16 PM roycroft: i haven't done any heavy hauling yet, but i've played with it in low 4wd a bit, and i'm happy with how it handles
07:16 PM xxcodery: 20 years ago manual is a lot more gas effecient, so its good for towing and such. save money
07:17 PM xxcodery: but it havent been true for quite a while now
07:17 PM roycroft: besides, i'm planning on putting a decent size winch on the truck
07:17 PM roycroft: and when i need to do finessy things i can do them with the winch
07:18 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I just have a 2wd truck without low range. A manual would suck when trying to do low speed maneuvers.
07:18 PM roycroft: but when you're trying to pull something with a chain hooked to the hitch, a manual transmission is nice
07:18 PM roycroft: you just put it in the granny gear and leave it there
07:19 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: How is that different than with an auto?
07:19 PM roycroft: you don't have a clutch to feather with an auto
07:19 PM roycroft: but as i said, my new pickup essentially idles when in low 4wd and 1st gear
07:19 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You don't need one. The torque converter does the slipping for you.
07:19 PM roycroft: so feathering isn't really needed
07:21 PM roycroft: i've already conceded that i'm ignorat about recent automatic transmission technology, so there's not much point in continuing this discussion :)
07:21 PM roycroft: ignorant, rather
07:22 PM roycroft: i just realised, though, that this is the first time in my life that i haven't had a running vehicle with a manual transmission
07:22 PM roycroft: i still have two vw buses that are manual, but neither of them are running at the moment
07:22 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: No problem. I was just curious 🙂 Probably not the best forum for a detailed discussion of transmissions unless they are spindle related 🙂
07:22 PM roycroft: and actually, my first car was a pinto with an automatic
07:22 PM roycroft: i did not get my first van until a couple years after i got the pinto
07:22 PM roycroft: so my first time since then
07:23 PM roycroft: and i was lucky
07:23 PM roycroft: i bought the pinto when i was 16 - it was my first car
07:23 PM roycroft: and i did not get rear-ended, so it did not catch on fire
07:23 PM roycroft: instead, i rear-ended a not-pinto, and that was the end of my pinto
07:23 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I had a ford econoline with an auto but it was more rust than van by the time I got it.
07:24 PM roycroft: and that was my first and only at-fault wreck, other than when the brakes went out unexpectedly on my new beetle
07:24 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Never been pulled over more times than when I was driving a rusty white van
07:24 PM roycroft: i was technically at fault with that, but one of the brak rotors had cracked, so it was a mechanical failure that caused the wreck
07:25 PM roycroft: my first van was a semi-rusty white econoline
07:25 PM roycroft: with no side windows - it was a cargo van
07:25 PM roycroft: i sometimes got pulled over multiple times/day in that
07:25 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ouch. Had a rotor crack but that was on the racetrack. That is what I get for buying the cheapest rotors from partsource.
07:26 PM roycroft: i was working at a fancy country club at the time, and had to drive the van through some pretty ritzy neighborhoods to get to work
07:27 PM xxcodery: first car, 1972 superbeetle. worked for short time then something electrics broke. couldnt fix cant afford to
07:27 PM xxcodery: 1976 datsun car, last year before nissan bought company
07:27 PM xxcodery: engine cracked on that one lol
07:28 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: LOL I learned to not speed or break any laws in that thing. Still got pulled over all the time. Cops get really upset when you tell them you don't know why they pulled you over and have to make something up.
07:28 PM roycroft: there was a guy who owned a bunch of mcdonald's franchises in the south and west suburbs of chicago at the time
07:28 PM roycroft: he had a mansion that i drove past every day on my way to work, in the rusty white econoline van
07:28 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: "Your spare tire is too close to your license plate"... It was on the opposite door....
07:29 PM roycroft: so yeah, i got a lot of "you're in the wrong neighborhood" stops
07:29 PM roycroft: and i was late to work a lot because of that
07:30 PM xxcodery: jeez
07:30 PM xxcodery: still remember interviewer saying "so, you cant drive, and too young to work here, why are you applying here?"
07:30 PM xxcodery: cant drive is because he thought deaf cant drive
07:31 PM xxcodery: and I was 24 then. not 15 as he thought I was
07:32 PM xxcodery: I worked at that hellscope of a company for 4 1/2 years. at worse dishwasher position possible, turnover was insane, workers usually dont last beyond 2-3 months
07:32 PM xxcodery: used to joke that workers get interview, entered backend to work dishes once then exit at back and never back
07:33 PM xxcodery: ironically, I didnt have driving license till I was 27. I walked to work and back everyday. just that his premise that deaf cant drive was wrong.
07:34 PM roycroft: there's a lot of ignorance in this world
07:36 PM xxcodery: yeah
07:38 PM xxcodery: roy man I miss having legs of steel then lol
07:39 PM xxcodery: I would constantly read while walking to work
07:39 PM xxcodery: so frankly it wasnt boring even though it was hour long walk
07:47 PM roycroft: there may be one other silver lining to the pandemic
07:47 PM roycroft: there are no roving throngs of children begging for candy today
07:47 PM roycroft: that tradition may finally be over
07:50 PM xxcodery: yeah right
07:50 PM xxcodery: free candies. not even drugged and/or needles stopped them
07:50 PM xxcodery: even though nearly all such cases was their own family
07:50 PM xxcodery: *by
07:52 PM roycroft: i rarely got anyone coming to my house anyway, because i'm not into handing out candy (i don't mind gifting people, but candy is not a very healthful thing to gift)
07:52 PM roycroft: and i would just close the drapes and not turn on the outside light
07:52 PM roycroft: but i still used to see the kids all over the place this time of day on halloween
07:53 PM xxcodery: lol something interesting happened on nascar
07:53 PM xxcodery: https://youtu.be/K3yNc5EasW8
07:53 PM roycroft: and there is nobody out there now
07:53 PM xxcodery: normally dont watch those but was linked that and its funny
07:53 PM roycroft: the deluge may have something to do with that, but kinds are pretty hard-core
07:54 PM roycroft: bumper cars
07:56 PM xxcodery: yeah lol
07:56 PM roycroft: that driver was a pinball wizard as a lad
07:59 PM xxcodery: drivers dunno may be too young to play on pinball
08:18 PM roycroft: i have to work on my election report for a bit, but i think i'll be able to get a couple hours of cad work in later on tonight
08:18 PM roycroft: i'm really struggling with the rack and pinion drive for the y axis on my router
08:19 PM roycroft: i keep trying things, not liking them, getting frustrated, and walking away
08:19 PM roycroft: i think that once i get that bit done the rest will be pretty straightforward
08:34 PM skunkworks[m]: why a rack and pinion?
08:35 PM solarwind: stepperonline.com guys have pretty good and responsive support
08:36 PM solarwind: also best prices for the Leadshine EL6 servo drive + motor by far
08:36 PM solarwind: only accepts step/dir inputs but at almost half the price of anything else out there
09:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: skunkworks I think it was a space issue with trying get the most amount of router into the space available
10:29 PM roycroft: it's a long axis (close to 2m), and yes, i need to conserve space
10:31 PM * roycroft hopes skunkworks is not going to make him rethink this again
10:35 PM roycroft: i was going to use a pair of ball screws (it's a 2 joint axis), but the length and the amount of room i needed for ball screws were problems
10:38 PM xxcodery: cant just use one thicker ballscrew
10:38 PM xxcodery: center of bed
10:38 PM xxcodery: oh yes you plan to use bed for router also
11:01 PM roycroft: correct
11:01 PM roycroft: nothing goes underneath
11:03 PM xxcodery: too bad would make design so mihc simpler
11:05 PM xxcodery: well still think rack and pnion is best way still
11:05 PM xxcodery: for one side thing
11:06 PM xxcodery: or rather on sides