#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 28 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:18 AM Thorhian[m]: Yeah. And easily available in my experience.
12:28 AM Thorhian[m]: I have closed loop steppers from stepperonline on my machine. They are pretty nice. I even got one with a brake for my Z axis.
12:28 AM xxcodery: how expensive are those anyway
12:28 AM xxcodery: same for drivers
12:28 AM Thorhian[m]: I feel like the integrated JBC servos could be pretty good if they were actually imported by sellers. I know stepperonline has some integrated servos.
12:42 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:11 AM Deejay: moin
01:17 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/TOAUTO-Integrated-Closed-Loop-IHSS57-36-20-Position/dp/B01MFA87KI/ref=sr_1_1 the Chinese versions also work well
01:20 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/servo-products/new-integrated-servo-motor
01:24 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23-closed-loop-stepper-motor-system-hybrid-servo-kit/kl-5056h
01:25 AM mrec: those motors are ok but they have no dust protection
01:25 AM mrec: and the manufacturer is https://www.jmc-motor.com/
01:26 AM mrec: one motor burned down here because a chip slowly wandered below the RS232 chipset and short the pins.
01:27 AM mrec: also the stm32f1 has died on it.. the rest seems to be fine
01:27 AM mrec: I reverse engineered the circuit of the board it's interesting .. but actually all standard
01:29 AM mrec: I used to pay around 80$ including shipping to Taiwan for the 180W version
01:29 AM mrec: your website resells it for 189$ .. okay
01:30 AM mrec: stepperonline is also quite expensive they just buy and sell as well
04:31 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:43 AM Tom_L: morning
04:44 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
04:45 AM Loetmichel: hey, anybody here using the cheap chinese 800W watercooled spindles? one of mine needs 4 bar to move any significant amount of coolant around... any idea how to clean the water jacket without dismantling the whole thing?
04:45 AM Loetmichel: i think there is dust and bio growth inside thats blocking the flow
04:46 AM xxcodery: what you think is clogging inside
04:46 AM xxcodery: hmm whats usual maintance chemicals for those anyway
04:46 AM Loetmichel: because i used it for a while with an open reservoir
04:47 AM Loetmichel: no idea, i simply have some "alu block" car coolant in the system
04:47 AM Loetmichel: i.E: a coolent with corrosion inhibitors for alu engine blocks
04:47 AM xxcodery: hmm ok
04:47 AM Loetmichel: coolant
04:49 AM Loetmichel: and i have a second but MUCH younger spindle of the same make that is happy with a normal fountain pump with no pressure at all, so i know the clogged one is NOT the normal throughput
04:49 AM xxcodery: yeah I assumed you got that right :D
04:49 AM xxcodery: what would safely break bio film and stuff but not damage inside
04:50 AM Loetmichel: yep, that would be the question :D
04:52 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:53 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:53 AM xxcodery: yo
06:23 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning
08:19 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, getting close on master still working on loading the ini file back into the tool
09:56 AM solarwind: jpa- yes cost and for some applications, simplicity. A full closed loop stepper is about $150 whereas a similar servo drive + motor is minimum $400
09:56 AM solarwind: more like $500
09:58 AM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] yeah the iSV integrated BLDC servos are also great for the price
09:59 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Steppers also have a favorable torque curve for most direct coupled hobby builds without going to a bigger servo.
09:59 AM solarwind: yeah that too
10:00 AM solarwind: the closed loop stepper drivers at high voltage gives you plenty of torque even at ~1,000 RPM
10:01 AM solarwind: their controller/DSP knows how to drive the coils based on feedback from the encoder, kind of like a BLDC drive
10:02 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Also uses the back-emf to do field oriented control in most of them as well.
10:05 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, cool.. i'll check in later on
10:12 AM JT-Shop: ok
10:55 AM solarwind: Hmmm. Can I go to the airport and buy a few litres of A1 jet fuel?
10:57 AM fogl: hello everybody
10:57 AM fogl: i am studying the linuxcnc pci driver: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_pci.c
10:58 AM solarwind: fogl yes, hello
10:58 AM fogl: i dont understand whenthe hm2_pci_probe function is called
10:59 AM fogl: does anybody here maybe have an ide how this works
10:59 AM solarwind: fogl line 756: static struct rtapi_pci_driver hm2_pci_driver
10:59 AM fogl: ide=idea
11:00 AM solarwind: it's a function callback
11:01 AM solarwind: fogl it's providing an implementation for that rtapi_pci_driver interface
11:02 AM fogl: So this struct initialization will call the function? I tried it but it does not execute the probe function it in my case.
11:02 AM solarwind: no
11:02 AM solarwind: it's called for example on rtapi_pci.cc line 237: res = driver->probe(dev, &dev_id);
11:03 AM solarwind: so `->probe()` calls that function in the struct
11:05 AM solarwind: fogl imagine you wanted to build another device that does the same thing as hostmot2 instead of the MESA cards
11:05 AM solarwind: like your own custom card
11:05 AM solarwind: you'd need to write a driver for it
11:05 AM fogl: yes exactly :)
11:06 AM solarwind: So you'd write your driver and provide the implementation just like in that file you linked
11:06 AM solarwind: and it would get called on rtapi_pci.cc 237:
11:06 AM fogl: yes, but i need to understand it first :)
11:07 AM solarwind: yeah, looks pretty straightforward there
11:07 AM solarwind: it probes it, just like when you go to the doctor
11:07 AM fogl: :)
11:08 AM solarwind: I dread the day I reach the age where I need to have that procedure done
11:08 AM fogl: i cant find this rtapi_pci.cc at linuxcnc git
11:08 AM fogl: where did you find this?
11:09 AM solarwind: fogl https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/rtapi/rtapi_pci.cc
11:09 AM solarwind: get yourself IntelliJ CLion
11:09 AM solarwind: and use `ag` (silversearcher) to help find things in code
11:10 AM solarwind: A real IDE is on a whole different level when it comes to understanding code and where things are defined and used
11:11 AM solarwind: I'm building an ethercat driver for linuxcnc using the W5500 ethernet chip for hard real time
11:12 AM fogl: i would also like to bild one
11:14 AM solarwind: fogl build one what?
11:14 AM fogl: based on fpga pcie card
11:14 AM solarwind: that would be the MESA cards
11:14 AM solarwind: they're honestly the cheapest available FPGA PCIe card
11:14 AM solarwind: even for general purpose stuff not related to CNC
11:14 AM fogl: but mesa dont suport ethernet on rtai
11:15 AM fogl: i tried it on preempt rt
11:15 AM fogl: but i get very poor latency
11:15 AM solarwind: just write a driver for it
11:16 AM solarwind: I'm not sure why they don't support it, haven't looked into it
11:16 AM solarwind: but they're so generic that there's no reason you can't make it happen
11:16 AM solarwind: it might need the use of an external ethernet chip like the W5500 which you can buy on amazon for like $20
11:16 AM solarwind: connect it to the FPGA via SPI, which is what I'm doing
11:17 AM solarwind: might be because the standard ethernet drivers in Linux are not realtime
11:17 AM solarwind: I haven't looked into exactly why not, but decided it would be easier to just implement ethercat in real time using a cheap ethernet controller designed for microcontrollers/embedded
11:17 AM JT-Shop: just got a question on fb markeplace How long do you had it for?
11:19 AM fogl: i will try to just write a driver :)
11:23 AM fogl: @solarwind: so the rtapi_pci_register_driver will call this probe function. I have this pci_register_driver_function and it does not call my simple probe function with rtai_print_msg.
11:24 AM fogl: lspci -v also doe not show the driver asociated with my pci catd
11:25 AM fogl: catd=card
11:26 AM fogl: when you load mesa pci driver within the hal, is this driver seen on lspci -v
11:32 AM roycroft: happy friday
11:33 AM roycroft: this will be my first weekend not doing elections work since july
11:33 AM * roycroft is looking forward to it
11:49 AM solarwind: fogl lspci shows physical cards on the system bus
11:49 AM solarwind: and associated kernel modules
11:50 AM solarwind: So unless it's a kernel module, or something the kernel is aware of, it won't show it
11:50 AM solarwind: linuxcnc is a userspace program and its "driver" is not the same thing as a kernel module
11:52 AM solarwind: I so badly wish QNX was open source
11:52 AM solarwind: I don't know of any other high level hard real time OS
12:10 PM perry_j1987: morning
12:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: you would be spending all your time writing drivers for it
12:11 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] not _all_ my time. Just need to do it once
12:11 PM solarwind: I've used it many years ago when it was "open source" and it was really nice
12:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it had very few drivers
12:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so few that they would not share that info
12:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: are you running into a problem with Linux RT?
12:15 PM solarwind: No, but fogl says he is with the network
12:15 PM solarwind: and I intend to use ethernet
12:15 PM solarwind: There is http://www.rtnet.org/ but I haven't looked into it
12:15 PM solarwind: I'm not sure how linuxcnc is doing it at the moment
12:18 PM * CaptHindsight[m] didn't read the backlog, thanks
12:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: RTnet was dropped from the fork of RTAI that LCNC uses
12:19 PM solarwind: Why is that?
12:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: due to reasons and drama
12:19 PM solarwind: Any of them technical reasons?
12:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nobody was using rtnet for LCNC, Mesa did their own thing for preempt_rt
12:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and hardly anyone was even using rtnet with RTAI
12:22 PM solarwind: Ok time to put it back in and try it out then
12:22 PM solarwind: I have a pretty easy way of measuring latency with raw Ethernet packets
12:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: talk to Alec about it
12:23 PM solarwind: Who is Alec?
12:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI his git
12:23 PM solarwind: nice, thanks
12:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he's been updating RTAI to 5.4 kernels lately
12:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he's down the hall from me,you can ask him about the problems of putting rtnet back in
12:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I doubt he would touch it but he will give you advice
12:26 PM pcw-home: I don't think rtnet supports enough drivers to be useful anymore
12:26 PM pcw-home: its dead Jim
12:26 PM solarwind: well I've been working on a W5500 driver nonetheless
12:26 PM solarwind: so it's as real-time as the SPI interface to the MESA cards is
12:27 PM * roycroft hadn't even heard of rtnet until just now
12:27 PM roycroft: but i don't know very much, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything
12:27 PM solarwind: that'll let us do torque control over ethercat at < 250µs cycle time
12:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: RTAI on ARM won't happen without funding
12:27 PM pcw-home: its the host hardware drivers that are out of date
12:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ^ more reasons
12:29 PM pcw-home: AFAIK W5500 cannot do Ethercat (nor can standard u-controllers, you need Ethercat specific slave hardware)
12:29 PM solarwind: you don't
12:29 PM solarwind: and I mean as an ethercat master
12:29 PM solarwind: there's nothing special about ethercat. If you can send ethernet frames, you can do ethercat
12:30 PM pcw-home: True for masters, not for slaves
12:30 PM solarwind: W5500 can send raw ethernet frames so it'll do just fine
12:30 PM solarwind: http://www.simplerobot.net/2018/06/rpi-ethercat-master-picat.html
12:30 PM solarwind: yeah all I care about is master
12:31 PM solarwind: It's been done successfully and it's relatively simple
12:37 PM solarwind: https://forum.wiznet.io/t/topic/4737
12:49 PM fogl: I wrote my own preempt-rt ethernet hal module that sent standard ethernet (not ethercat) frames to slave devices, but every sendmsg instruction added a lot to cycle execution time / latency.
12:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: fogl: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers ask about RTnet on the dev maillist
12:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: fogl: what is the goal?
12:50 PM fogl: Now i am trying to design a pfga pci card with dma interface that will take care for frame dispatching ad receiving. Frames would be transmited based on Time Senistive Network protocol.
12:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: low latency ethernet with RTAI?
12:51 PM fogl: yes, the goial is to use RTAI
12:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Ethercat with RTAI?
12:52 PM fogl: not ethercat, TSN
12:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ask Alec on the dev maillist
12:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI his RTAI git that we use with LCNC
12:53 PM solarwind: fogl also check the two links I posted above
12:54 PM fogl: i will, thank you
12:54 PM solarwind: You might be able to solve all of these issues with a $20 ethernet chip
12:54 PM solarwind: that chip handles the actual Ethernet stack because it's designed for microcontrollers
12:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: probably the way to go
12:54 PM solarwind: You just send it basic data over SPI. That means you can interface it to your FPGA very easily and have it pass through to the host
12:55 PM solarwind: He shows that he's doing hard real time no problem. There's lots of code for it too
12:55 PM fogl: but i also need precise frame transmission timestamp (required for TSN)
12:55 PM solarwind: fogl you and I are doing the same thing pretty much. I'm just doing it for ethercat, which is just a protocol difference
12:56 PM fogl: it seem so :)
12:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just FYI, RTAI is under 1uS for jitter on recent Ryzen cpu's
12:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but as soon as you start Ethernet it jumps up quickly
12:57 PM solarwind: yeah external ethernet controller is the way to go
12:58 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] what's the deal with Xenomai? How does that fit in with RTAI?
12:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but like SW just said if you are using SPI and the network controller is doing the stack it might stay low
12:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: long story but Xenomai dropped their 2 kernel RT approach like RTAI
12:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and just went with a single kernel with RT patches
12:59 PM solarwind: ah ok
01:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and later kernel org just started adding those patches
01:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so a vanilla Linux kernel will act like preempt_rt
01:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Xenomai is sort of a more pedantic version of preempt_rt
01:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: IF I was going to design a lower latency Linux system I'd look at RDMA
01:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but that would not be Ethercat compatible
01:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it would have lower latency
01:05 PM solarwind: RDMA is great for throughput, but I don't know if it has any impact on latency
01:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but now you're designing hardware and software
01:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: i think it's around 1uS or just under with non rt kernels
01:07 PM solarwind: DMA between what and what?
01:08 PM solarwind: Unrelated, I just realized I have an STM32F767 on a nucleo board with ethernet. That's going to be really fast. The Ethernet MAC is integrated into the STM32 chip
01:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: PC and remote slave CNC thingy
01:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: look at remora
01:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I forget which STM32's are already working with it
01:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Remora has been ported to F103, F207, F407, F429, F446.
01:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: stm32 are very difficult to obtain currently
01:13 PM solarwind: I think that'll improve soon
01:13 PM solarwind: I already have a bunch of F446 and F767 boards
01:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heh, jlcpcb.com/partdetail/Stmicroelectronics-STM32F407VET6/C28730 ~11K in stock (09/22)
01:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: today In Stock: 413
01:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://jlcpcb.com/parts/2nd/Single_Chip_Microcomputer_Microcontroller/Microcontroller_Units_(MCUs_MPUs_SOCs)_79443
01:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/44828-remora-ethernet-nvem-cnc-board
01:28 PM rmu: just FYI, there are userspace ip stacks for linux, there you can control timing etc... yourself
01:30 PM rmu: incl network interface driver in userspace
01:34 PM fogl: i tred i210 NIC which enables precise frame timing (with preempt-rt and custom hal module, but the results were poor. As i said every sendmsg added quite a lot so cycle time. It may be good for ethercat (one frame pr cycle), but not for TSN, which uses standard ethernet network hardware/frames.
01:38 PM rmu: https://github.com/snabbco/snabb
01:39 PM rmu: dpdk
01:39 PM rmu: IIRC systems like these are used in high frequency trading applications to shave off latency
01:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: also were RDMA is used
01:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lower tech traders didn't understand how others were able to see their bids or offers and then get their bids in before the low tech traders completed
01:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: monitor and intercept trades, make a decision based on what is about to happen, make some profit by beating their trade to the system
01:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so it is not even about gambling, its about taking advantage of the system by being able to communicate faster wit the trading system
01:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i forget the cycle times involved with trading systems but they try to keep latency in their trading bots to <2uS
01:46 PM roycroft: trading system data centers are weird
01:47 PM roycroft: they have to run the exact same length cables to every rack, so that nobody gets a sub-millisecond advantage by being closer to the patch panel
01:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unless you "know" somebody
01:48 PM Tom_L: keep them the same length just use coiled cord on some of them
01:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they were tearing up streets downtown Chicago neat the CBOT and the Merc to get fiber in for nearby firms
01:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: neat/near once inside the exchange they might have it more fair
01:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it became a game of fastest ping times
01:53 PM roycroft: iirc the sec issued some rules about trading data centers at one point so that "knowing sombody" would not matter
01:55 PM memleak: Hello! Who asked about RT net and RTAI? :D
01:55 PM solarwind: memleak me
01:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: fogl: and ^^
01:55 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] Thanks for the link, I'll check that out
01:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: fogl: ask memleak about the rtnet for RTAI
01:57 PM memleak: Hi solarwind, so LinuxCNC never worked to my knowledge with RTAI's RT net / netrpc
01:57 PM memleak: and fogl
01:57 PM solarwind: rmu right, totally forgot about DPDK
01:57 PM solarwind: I wonder what the latency looks like on rtlinux
01:58 PM memleak: DPDK doesn't work with LinuxCNC either, nor RoCE
01:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: there has been lost of activity around EtherCAT for LCNC, why this vs premmpt_rt with Mesa?
01:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: s/lost/lots/, s/premmpt_rt/preempt\_rt/
01:58 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] right now linuxcnc only supports ethercat in cyclic synchronous position mode
01:58 PM solarwind: as far as I know
01:59 PM memleak: It's just POSIX threads right now with PREEMPT_RT, anything else would need to be written.
01:59 PM solarwind: I want to do velocity/torque control, not just with linuxcnc
01:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: on a big machine i can see why Ethercat can make wiring easier
01:59 PM memleak: (or at least updated/fixed)
01:59 PM solarwind: so I want to target 125µs cycle time, 256µs at the least
02:00 PM pcw-home: LinuxCNC is control mode agnostic
02:00 PM solarwind: well the existing driver I mean
02:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what tends to happen is LCNC with the control in the PC vs some buffering over a bus or network
02:01 PM pcw-home: You can do position, velocity or torque control
02:01 PM solarwind: Yeah but not with the current ethernet stack as it's being used
02:01 PM solarwind: the latency may be too high
02:01 PM pcw-home: There are people doing 10 KHz with Ethercat/LinuxCNC
02:02 PM solarwind: The goal is to get at least 4kHz cycle back to the host to close the loop
02:02 PM pcw-home: That should be possible
02:02 PM solarwind: where? I'd be very interested in that
02:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/ethercat in case you weren't aware
02:04 PM pcw-home: With the right host its possible with Mesa Ethernet cards, and should be somewhat easier with EtherCAT (as it has lower network overhead vs kernel UDP stack)
02:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: which NIC's should be avoided with Mesa Ethernet?
02:05 PM solarwind: Yeah the whole problem is the kernel ethernet stack
02:05 PM memleak: The latest RT net for RTAI is here: https://www.rtai.org/userfiles/downloads/RTAICONTRIB/rtai_rtnet.tar.bz2 Notes say Linux kernel 3.x onward (this is probably out of date) and RTAI 5.1 or newer, but newer versions may not work.
02:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: was it Intel that had the most problems?
02:06 PM solarwind: need a fast interface to the NIC
02:06 PM pcw-home: Intel is OK as long as you disable AMT and IRQ coalescing
02:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah ok
02:07 PM pcw-home: I think there were some complaints with newer Linux RTK drivers (fixed by using the driver from RTK)
02:07 PM memleak: I think the drivers the guy was working on with RTAI 5.1 support and kernel 3.x was e1000/e1000e
02:07 PM memleak: (Intel)
02:08 PM memleak: There's a realtek 8139 driver in there too but the 8168/8169 is a lot more common and faster
02:09 PM pcw-home: Those are probably the most common (RT8111/8168/8169 are also very common)
02:09 PM memleak: 8139 is ancient
02:10 PM pcw-home: I think I had a BroadCOM chip that never had good latency
02:10 PM pcw-home: Yeah the 8139 is PCI
02:11 PM memleak: Broadcom in general is pretty bad lol
02:11 PM memleak: Can't count the number of problems with their b43
02:11 PM pcw-home: Intel you have to be wary of BIOS spyware like AMT
02:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: if you write up a paper on EFI/spyware problems it would be interesting to all the open firmware devs
02:14 PM roycroft: just don't use anything based on the ne2000 if you want anything resembling real-time performance
02:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even just experiences
02:15 PM roycroft: i think that novell's only positive claim for that chipset is that it was faster than token ring
02:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://join.slack.com/t/osfw/shared_invite/zt-1is67q31e-deSNA~5Qi6fIvpraYTogQQ
02:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Open Source Firmware on Slack ^^
02:16 PM pcw-home: Other than the fact that EFI crap messes with real time performance Its not something I know much about
02:17 PM pcw-home: (I did mess with some of the disabling hacks a couple years ago)
02:18 PM solarwind: I generally stick to mellanox cards because I use Infiniband
02:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they share this at conferences
02:18 PM solarwind: but we definitely need something like DPDK for ethercat
02:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Ron Minnich especially
02:19 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ne2000? https://media.tenor.com/B8KbgdhKkiUAAAAd/theres-a-name-ive-not-heard-in-many-years.gif
02:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iffTJ1vPCSo
02:20 PM memleak: LinuxCNC working with openonload would be pretty cool, trading firms use it for their kernel bypass technology, all userspace, latency under 2 microsconds without even using PREEMPT_RT
02:20 PM memleak: trading firms meaning HFT
02:21 PM memleak: DPDK is part of Mellanox OFED, and OFED is a mess. I worked with it with Weka and it was a nightmare.
02:22 PM memleak: This crap: https://docs.weka.io/overview/networking-in-wekaio lol
02:27 PM JT-Shop: my ad clearly states I'm in Poplar Bluff and I get "Where are you located?"
02:27 PM Tom_L: :)
02:28 PM roycroft: is this a cl ad?
02:31 PM JT-Shop: fb market place
02:31 PM JT-Shop: my answer was I'm about 8 miles north of town
02:32 PM roycroft: oh
02:33 PM roycroft: i was going to say, if it's cl, and you've ever read any cl ads, you now that the average reading level there is at the 2nd or 3rd grade level. i've never been on facebok marketplace, but i should imagine the average reading level there is the same or not much higher
02:33 PM JT-Shop: cl doesn't have the exposure it used to have and I almost never sell anything that's listed on cl
02:34 PM roycroft: i've found that selling on cl is slower than it used to be
02:34 PM JT-Shop: however I did sell my Huth HB-10 bender on fb marketplace
02:34 PM roycroft: but that's not enough reason for me to go to fb :)
02:34 PM pcw-home: I went through the pain of installing onload only to find out that my MAC was not supported...
02:34 PM JT-Shop: I just use the marketplace
02:34 PM roycroft: if i really need to sell stuff online perhaps i can hire someone to put it on fb marketplace for me
02:34 PM roycroft: if cl stops working for me
02:35 PM roycroft: i have someone coming to buy my old hardware cabinets tomorrow, actually
02:35 PM JT-Shop: I had a friend post my Spyder on marketplace and it sold in less than a week
02:35 PM roycroft: i've had them posted on cl for about 2 weeks, which is a long time for me
02:35 PM roycroft: usually i sell things in the first few days on cl
02:37 PM roycroft: you're actually closer to memphis than st louis, aren't you?
02:42 PM JT-Shop: it's about the same distance to st louis, memphis, little rock from me
02:42 PM roycroft: oh, so you have three cities to choose from if you need to go to a decent size city
02:42 PM roycroft: that's nice
02:42 PM roycroft: when i lived in bellingham, vancouver bc was the closest major city, but seattle was not much farther away
02:43 PM roycroft: here i just have portland
02:43 PM JT-Shop: cape girardeau is about 1 1/4 hours from here
02:46 PM roycroft: bbiab - reboot time for my imac
02:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: MIMXRT 1052 might be of interest
02:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-microcontrollers/i-mx-rt-crossover-mcus:IMX-RT-SERIES it's what the Ethernet based CNC controllers from China have moved to from stm32
02:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Shop: did your trans issue end up being the plastic tips from the shift fork had broken?
02:58 PM memleak: JT-Shop, what kind of Spyder?
02:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/us/en/models/3-wheel-vehicles/spyder-rt.html
02:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT makes accessories for them
03:00 PM memleak: that looks fun!
03:04 PM memleak: Hey hey andypugh how's it going?
03:04 PM andypugh: OK, mainly.
03:04 PM andypugh: Too many projects, not enough time.
03:05 PM memleak: Thanks for merging my PR!
03:05 PM memleak: I was dying when you said you did that through your phone
03:09 PM roycroft: hear, hear
03:10 PM memleak: roycroft, andypugh is a funny man.
03:11 PM memleak: THE MORE YOU KNOW!
03:11 PM andypugh: It’s true though, I was at my mum’s house and all we had were two old Macs with oudated Safari. A lot of Github content, including the most useful buttons, doesn’t display.
03:13 PM memleak: Do you have an iPhone?
03:13 PM andypugh: Yes.
03:14 PM memleak: Is it true some of the cameras are fake?
03:14 PM andypugh: I have mainly used Apple machines since about 1989.
03:15 PM roycroft: i have an iphone and the cameras, both front and rear, appear to be fully-functional
03:15 PM roycroft: hence my need to put stickers on the front and rear of the phone
03:15 PM andypugh: I think this explains it: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251512500
03:18 PM memleak: Ah low-light and portrait, that makes sense.
03:23 PM JT-Shop: memleak, it was a 2012 RT
03:24 PM JT-Shop: CaptHindsight[m], yes
03:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: more plastics in engines and transmissions for what reason? Makes it quieter? Built in obsolescence? Both?
03:50 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Cheaper and lasts the warrantee period. That is all there is to it.
03:51 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Nothing wrong with plastic parts in engines and transmissions though. As long as they are properly engineered. Lots of plastic timing chain guides that last at least the life of the engine.
03:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if you find that ok
03:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: those are the weak spots we always swap out
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: plus this is a Corvette, no need to cut corners except for profit
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: exhaust is always loud so a quieter trans or engine is not an issue
03:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how many hour job is the repair?
03:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nice work for dealers after warranty
03:58 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Most corvettes are only driven to church on sunday by little old men though so wear shouldn't be an issue 😛
03:59 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I kid, there almost as many corvettes at the track events I go to as mustangs.
04:01 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: My race car is a BMW so I am very familiar with consumable plastic parts on the engine. The expansion tank and rad need to be replaced on a regular basis so they don't explode. I replaced them with aluminum versions but there is no way you could justify that for a street car.
04:02 PM travis_farmer[m]: my race car stays at the store... and has a basket on the front... 😉
04:07 PM JT-Shop: R&I a C5 transmission is 7.5 hours
04:08 PM JT-Shop: I didn't pull the transmission just the back cover of the transmission off as 5th, 6th and reverse live there
04:32 PM andypugh: I am perfectly happy with plastic bearing race cages.
04:32 PM xxcodery: yo
04:34 PM JT-Shop: I need to drill a 1" hole in 1/2" thick A36 (mild steel), going from 3/8" to 1/2" to 1" stalls the spindle with the 1" bit...
04:34 PM JT-Shop: thinking of trying 1/2", 3/4", 1"...
04:35 PM xxcodery: got any borer?
04:35 PM xxcodery: would be easier to do smaller increments with that I think, though wearing expensive tool dunno
04:36 PM JT-Shop: well I could use an endmill but the drill is much faster
04:36 PM xxcodery: yeah
04:37 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Use an annular cutter like on a mag drill
04:37 PM andypugh: It’s a job for an annular cutter, certainly. Or a boring head.
04:39 PM JT-Shop: gotta use what you have...
04:39 PM JT-Shop: it's a 2" x 2" part so mag drill is no good
04:39 PM xxcodery: jt yeah if job isnt worth buying tool s for
04:40 PM JT-Shop: it's a free job
04:40 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have tacked smaller parts to my welding table to use the mag drill on them.
04:40 PM JT-Shop: why use a mag drill when I have a VMC?
04:40 PM JT-Shop: I do have a mag drill as well
04:42 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: For small fab jobs like that I tend to use the mag drill instead of the VMC. Though I did just use the VMC to make a couple of exhaust flanges so I am not one to talk 🙂
04:44 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: For a 1" hole on the VMC I would either use 25mm Udrill or do a helical interpolation with a 1/2" end mill.
04:50 PM JT-Shop: I'll try the drills one more time before using an end mill... just to see if I can drill the hole
04:51 PM JT-Shop: I have all weekend because it's going to rain here.
04:51 PM roycroft: no rain here this weekend
04:51 PM roycroft: it's raining today, though
04:51 PM xxcodery: fun
04:52 PM xxcodery: its nice day here, managed to go turn in paperwork and buy 2 pants
04:53 PM xxcodery: I have only 3 pants, one very old and basically need to be trashed, and 2 2 year old ones
04:54 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Where do you live that you need paperwork to buy pants? And exactly 2 pants? 🙂
04:54 PM JT-Shop: going to up the sfm to 110 to get the rpm up with the 1" that will help too
04:55 PM xxcodery: zinc only 2 pants fit me
04:55 PM xxcodery: and paperwork is unrelated
04:55 PM xxcodery: i went to cheap store ross because I dont really have budget to buy pants
05:02 PM andypugh: When you say pants, do you mean underwear or trousers?
05:07 PM xxcodery: trousers
05:07 PM andypugh: pcw-home: (and the usual suspects) LPMattei has updated an old Smithy to 2.8.4 and it’s not working.
05:07 PM andypugh: https://paste.debian.net/1258652
05:07 PM xxcodery: I dont know of any place that calls underwear pants
05:07 PM andypugh: The UK
05:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hybrid under-pants
05:10 PM xxcodery: interesting
05:10 PM JT-Shop: is a dog end the southern part of a north bound dog or a cigarette butt
05:10 PM JT-Shop: does a girl wear a bonnet or a car?
05:10 PM xxcodery: dont think can buy 2 underwear unit, usually 6 or 8 packs :D
05:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: do girls wear cars?
05:11 PM JT-Shop: blondie says they eat cars
05:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: watching Python as a kid, knickers was the word thrown around often
05:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "Dear Sir, I object strongly to the letters on your programme. They are clearly not written by the general public and are merely included for a cheap laugh. Yours sincerely etc., William Knickers."
05:21 PM JT-Shop: 1/2" to 3/4" to 1" work perfectly and the 1" only has 75% spindle load so that's a win
05:21 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, interpolate the 1" hole
05:22 PM Tom_L: nevermind
05:25 PM Tom_L: interpolating even small holes is sometimes preferred in a program if not just to avoid a tool change especially if they are multiple sizes
05:27 PM JT-Shop: drilling worked fine and fast once I got the step size correct
05:27 PM JT-Shop: drilling is always faster making a hole
05:28 PM JT-Shop: might get master done enough for testing in the am... working on loading the ini into the tool
05:32 PM * JT-Shop heads to the catio
05:38 PM Tom_L: just lemme know..
05:39 PM JT[m]: Ok
05:39 PM Tom_L: you'd be surprised... they run those cnc's pretty darn fast
05:40 PM JT[m]: You can test now but smart serial is not done
05:40 PM Tom_L: ok i might grab it
05:40 PM Tom_L: got a small project i'm hunting down
05:41 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/coupler/Coupler_brass.jpg
05:41 PM Tom_L: coupler for some sort of hand tool
05:42 PM JT[m]: No deb yet, so run from the clone
05:42 PM Tom_L: clone master and build..
05:42 PM Tom_L: you've moved things out of ini4 right?
05:43 PM JT[m]: Don't even have to build just run ./mesact
05:43 PM Tom_L: true
05:43 PM JT[m]: Yep, no more work on ini4
05:43 PM Tom_L: what's a quick way to pull dimensions in sw?
05:44 PM Tom_L: been a while.. and i need the thickness of that part
05:44 PM Tom_L: smart dimension..
05:44 PM JT[m]: Just dbl click on the part
05:45 PM Tom_L: what about opposing faces?
05:45 PM Tom_L: ahh i got it thanks
05:46 PM JT[m]: Use the measure tool
05:46 PM Tom_L: i got what i needed
05:46 PM Tom_L: just gonna face the bottom off to thickness
05:46 PM JT[m]: Ok
06:14 PM solarwind: Hmm timing belts definitely stretch
06:14 PM solarwind: Need a belt tensioner with a spring for sure.
06:25 PM xxcodery: also why better 3d printers has tension adjustor
06:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: maybe you need a wider or thicker belt?
06:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what distance between the pulleys? What size belt is it?
06:32 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] HTD-305-5M
06:32 PM solarwind: 305mm, 5mm pitch HTD, I think about 12mm width
06:33 PM solarwind: NEMA23 stepper driving an unloaded chuck, 3:1 ratio for 48 hours to break in
07:43 PM LPMattei: Anyone familiar with a smithy1240? I am trying to get Linuxcnc 2.8.4 to run on it.
07:48 PM andypugh: (Having been chatting privately, this is more of a generic problem, upgrade from Ubuntu 10,04 to Buster / preempt / 2.8.4.
07:49 PM andypugh: Config is fixed and now back running RTAI, but it’s quitting for unclear reasons,
07:49 PM andypugh: And I need to go,
07:56 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:16 PM solarwind: Hmm
09:16 PM solarwind: I wonder why aviation connectors have the prongs on the panel mount side
09:16 PM solarwind: That makes it difficult to use them as power outlets for non standard voltages
09:18 PM roycroft: perhaps that is the reason
09:21 PM roycroft: if the voltages/currents are not too high, you might look at xlr connectors, or speakon
09:21 PM roycroft: i really like speakon for moderate voltage/power cables
09:21 PM roycroft: they're made by neutrix
09:21 PM roycroft: and designed for audio speakers, but for big pa systems
09:22 PM roycroft: so they can handle some current
09:22 PM roycroft: they are not rated for dc though
09:23 PM roycroft: but folks use them for dc in some cases, derating them appropriately
09:30 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
11:17 PM Kevin`: solarwind: it's possible to get them in both genders on the panel side
11:18 PM Kevin`: at least within the scope of generically military-style round connector with pins like amphenol makes