#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 17 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:42 AM Deejay: moin
03:53 AM cart_: Hi Everyone. Is it really hard to build your own CNC Lazer cutter using LinuxCNC? And how expensive is it generally?
04:03 AM xxcodery: linuxcnc side isnt bad. some learning curve but if I can, you can
04:03 AM xxcodery: machine side, framing and machine isnt too bad. laser itself dunno
04:03 AM cart_: xxcodery: Thansk for the input
04:04 AM cart_: Btw will a 5w lazer be able to cut through the Fibreglass of a PCB?
04:04 AM cart_: I do not know where to get the information for that
04:14 AM xxcodery: me either
04:20 AM travis_farmer[m]: G'Morning
04:24 AM Tom_L: morning
04:26 AM Tom_L: 42°F hi 57
04:48 AM travis_farmer[m]: 41F, with a high of 61F, here
05:21 AM xxcodery45 is now known as xxcodery
05:23 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:24 AM JT-Cave: 46°F high 56°F
06:13 AM pere: <URL: https://turnoff.us/geek/python-robots/ > :)
08:01 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: A 5w (likely blue) laser will not cut fiberglass as the wavelength is not well absorbed by the glass fibers. Plus the power is too low. You need a CO2 laser to cut fiberglass. Don't know how much power but one of the standard 80W units should do thin sheets.
08:56 AM skunkworks[m]: wow - did no one tell me about this secret club?
08:59 AM skunkworks[m]: oh - so there is a connection to irc.. lol.. so I guess I have been posting on discord and didn't know it. LOL
09:02 AM solarwind: I'm milling custom cases for my tools to replace the terrible blow molded cases
09:02 AM solarwind: For things like socket sets, calipers, micrometers, whatever
09:14 AM perry_j1987: solarwind i've been printing up some gridfinity stuff for that
09:14 AM perry_j1987: designed my own custom ones for thread gauges and random stuff
09:18 AM Loetmichel: ZincBoy[CAON][m]: from experience: an 80W co2 laser can cut 1mm PCB material just fine if a bit slow and stinky. (without copper of course)... That said: laser is the wrong material for composites with that much different vapor points.
09:18 AM Loetmichel: @ cart_ , too
10:10 AM Thorhian[m]: It’s kind of funny seeing how usual it is for people here to post weather and temps every morning here.
10:18 AM CaptHindsight[m]: cold outside, but not really freezing but snow showers this afternoon and it's not even Halloween yet
10:31 AM roycroft: we have rain in the forecast starting friday and ending in june
10:32 AM CaptHindsight[m]: skunkworks: there are bridges from IRC -->Discord-->Matrix, so when they are all working you can post on either and it should show up everywhere
10:32 AM roycroft: but until then it will be much warmer than average, and sunny when it's not smoky
10:33 AM skunkworks: neat..
10:33 AM skunkworks: but roycroft doesn't...
10:34 AM skunkworks: oh maybe a delay...
10:38 AM roycroft: is what i say all that important anyway? :)
10:38 AM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah sometimes the delay is many minutes, and then a flood of backlog breaks through
10:39 AM CaptHindsight[m]: less often lately
10:39 AM roycroft: yikes
10:39 AM skunkworks: roycroft: lol.. at least as important as anyone else..
10:39 AM roycroft: specs for my new pickup are to change the oil every 5000 miles
10:39 AM roycroft: and the capacity is 15 quarts
10:40 AM skunkworks: roycroft: yes.. It is a lot of oil..
10:40 AM roycroft: that's going to be expensive
10:40 AM roycroft: it's a good thing that "every 5000 miles" will be two years or longer
10:40 AM skunkworks: dad has a frame to replace his that is litterally rusting apart. It is crazy.
10:41 AM skunkworks: another project..
10:41 AM roycroft: although it would probably be best to change fluids more often on a vehicle that does not drive much
10:41 AM roycroft: so maybe every year
10:41 AM skunkworks: evertime I look under that truck - I wonder how it is staying together.
10:41 AM roycroft: we do not use salt on our roads
10:41 AM roycroft: rust is not a problem with vehicles here
10:41 AM skunkworks: best sounding truck though.. That turbo spool is awesome.
10:42 AM roycroft: i'm surprised that the fuel filter is so cheap
10:42 AM roycroft: it's <$30
10:42 AM roycroft: most diesel fuel filters are in the $50 range
10:47 AM skunkworks: dads is parked most of the time too...
10:51 AM CloudEvil: Under 5000 miles if those are short trips.
10:51 AM CloudEvil: If the vehicle doesn't get properly warmed up.
10:52 AM skunkworks: most every time the truck is pulling a car trailer. It gets warmed up good.
10:55 AM roycroft: i will rarely drive the vehicle out of town
12:07 PM pere: roguish[m]: any news on the div2 component?
12:58 PM cart_: Is there any Prebuilt frame I can buy that works really well for both dirll(Milling) and lazer ?
12:59 PM Loetmichel: Miling and laser have contrary requirements: Milling needs a sturdy frame to cope with the high forces. Laser needs a fast moving/accelerating head
01:00 PM Loetmichel: (so as less mass as possible)
01:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cart_: what size work area?
01:03 PM cart_: 400x400 seems like the average
01:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: mm?
01:05 PM cart_: Loetmichel: Yea that makes sense.. I just dont know what to do aymore
01:05 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: It is generally cheaper to buy two machines specialized to the application than to try to make one machine that does both.
01:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: laser cutter, engraver/marker?
01:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: mounting a galvo over a mill is not a problem
01:07 PM cart_: Galvo?
01:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: laser engraving or cutting and what power laser?
01:09 PM Loetmichel: i dont know if LinuxCNC has a function to modulate the laser power down when accelerating/decelerating in corners but if it has then you can use a milling frame for laser cutting with minimal downsides (apart from being a bit slower)
01:10 PM Loetmichel: if you cant then the corners cut with a laser on a heavy frame will bloom
01:10 PM cart_: At first I thought it would be cool to make PCB engravings with the lazer printer but then I also wanted to have the board cut while at it. So then I asked around and it seems like 5W lazers wont do the job for PCB cutting. So now I have to look for a stronger lazer like 40W. But those are usually the CO2 ones
01:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he doesn't even know if he is cutting or engraving
01:11 PM Loetmichel: cart: engravings or exposing phtoresist?
01:11 PM Loetmichel: the former needs TONS of laser power AND a blue laser
01:11 PM Loetmichel: or UV
01:11 PM Loetmichel: because copper is pretty good at dispersing heat
01:11 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Laser is the wrong tool for PCB engraving. Unless you spring for a high power fiber laser. The right answer to PCB manufacture is JLpcb or PCBway.
01:11 PM Loetmichel: and reflecting light
01:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's not a problem toy have a PCB drill and laser on the same mechanical system
01:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: s/toy/to/
01:13 PM cart_: Well if you have a really small drill bit you can just drill off the copper also right?
01:13 PM Loetmichel: ZincBoy[CAON][m]: well, i am to lazy AND to impatient to use services like those. i tend to insulate mill my PCB prototypes
01:13 PM Loetmichel: but laser is just not in the hobby budget for copper
01:13 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Been there, done that. It is not as cheap as it seems and you end up with crappy boards that take a ton of time.
01:13 PM Loetmichel: cart_: nope, drill doesent work for milling
01:14 PM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6NQ-05A0qc <- thats with a 30°V-bit
01:15 PM Loetmichel: a drill would break off instantly
01:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cart_: you can easily a pretty cheaply make a cnc drill and laser cure machine, you can even use resin printer resin as resist, but this requires etching, not laser removal of the copper
01:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and you won't have plated through holes
01:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ~250um trace and space with a cheap laser
01:20 PM cart_: CaptHindsight[m]: That all sounds good to me though. Where do I start sourcing the parts for this CNC?
01:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cart_: https://www.galvo-scanner.com/
01:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cart_: how much of this can you do on your own?
01:34 PM cart_: CaptHindsight[m]: What do you mean? Putting it together?
01:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: their 405nm lens selection only goes to F=380 240*240 mm
01:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cart_: design and build
01:35 PM roycroft: not only does a drill not work for milling, in some materials, such as sheet metal, a mill works better than a drill for drilling
01:36 PM cart_: well I am pretty good with such things
01:36 PM cart_: I think
01:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cart_: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/entry-level-machine-cnc-router/kl-3020 and add a frame above to hold the galvo, or if you don't mind slowly scanning with the laser using the gantry
01:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or instead of the laser and galvo you can use a LCD/DLP projector with some minor mods to the lens
01:39 PM cart_: CaptHindsight[m]: Holy shit thats like 899 dollars
01:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 10-20um trace and space is pretty easy using a projector
01:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it gets more complicated if you want 10um T&S and a large scan area
01:40 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: @cart_ what do you expect to spend/what is your budget?
01:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: any decent ~40cm x 40cm cnc drill is going to cost that much or more
01:44 PM cart_: CaptHindsight[m]: More like 400Dollars
01:44 PM cart_: Fk me that is rough
01:44 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I would be really surprised if you could do 20um line/space with any home process. The etching control needed to achieve that is really hard. 200um I could see.
01:45 PM cart_: Ok lets say only a Lazer engraver/cutter CNC?
01:45 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You are not going to get anything useful for $400.
01:46 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Pick from Aliexpress/amazon. You won't build anything cheaper than they have.
01:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://i.imgur.com/b4zPwKo.jpg was likely focused for ~20um trace and space, 4k DLP projector
01:48 PM CloudEvil: In principle you can with great skill make something cheaper using crappy or second hand parts.
01:48 PM CloudEvil: This is ... problematic
01:52 PM roycroft: a laser engraver/cutter for $400 will work fine if you're just trying to burn images on wood or cutting through thin paler
01:52 PM roycroft: paper
01:53 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: @CaptHindsight, I can see imaging 20um resolution but actually etching that is not going to happen in a home shop. The readily available 1/2oz copper boards have 40um thick copper. To get 20um, you would need high aspect etching. Realistically you would want to start with 20um or 10um foil to have a good chance of getting 20um etched resolution. Still not easy though.
01:54 PM roycroft: if you want to make pcbs and not spend much, perhaps use photosensitive pcbs and the toner transfer method to etch the boards, and set up a small cnc router with a high speed spindle for doing the bores
01:56 PM roycroft: or if you have the right etchant, just do toner transfer directly to the copper layer of the boards
01:57 PM Tom_L: better have good ventilation
01:58 PM roycroft: at least as good as you would need if you're going to etch it with a laser
02:00 PM CloudEvil: One of the things I have on my stack is a point-point wiring solution using enamelled wire, with auto-soldering deadbug style.
02:00 PM CloudEvil: Which could be really quite effective, done well.
02:01 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ammonium Persulphate is my preferred etchant as it is less messy to deal with than Ferric Chloride. Ferric Chloride will stain anything it touches and that is more of a concern than ventilation with small amounts of these.
02:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: @CloudEvil, I use blank copper boards with a layer of kapton tape over them. The kapton is cut out where I want a ground connection. The rest is wired point-point with enameled wire. Much faster and less annoying than trying to make my own boards.
02:02 PM CloudEvil: ZincBoy[CAON][m]: yes, similar idea.
02:03 PM CloudEvil: Blank copper is an obvious substrate.
02:03 PM CloudEvil: Two sided blank copper, with the other side being power is another.
02:04 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have thought of doing that but that is about the point I break down and just do a proper layout and send it out.
02:04 PM CloudEvil: That is also a reasonable solution.
02:05 PM Rab: I've always used ferric chloride. It's pretty benign except for the staining, which I solve by using small quantities and not splashing it around.
02:06 PM CloudEvil: I solve it by using large quantities and pressure-washing the entire room.
02:10 PM roycroft: some folks don't immerse the board in the ferric chloride solution - they dab it on the copper with a sponge
02:11 PM roycroft: i'm not sure how well that works, but it does conserve the solution
02:11 PM roycroft: and makes for a lot less neutralizing/disposal procedure
02:12 PM perry_j1987: i use cupric chloride here
02:12 PM perry_j1987: easy to make and use
02:12 PM roycroft: that has the same disposal problems
02:12 PM perry_j1987: na
02:12 PM perry_j1987: you can neutralize it and dump down drain they say
02:12 PM roycroft: you can neutralize with naoh or whatever
02:12 PM roycroft: but you have to separate the sludge from the liquied
02:12 PM perry_j1987: but you dont ever. really have to get rid of it
02:12 PM roycroft: the sludge contains a lot of copper and iron, and you can't flush that down the drain
02:13 PM perry_j1987: just bubble it and good to go
02:13 PM roycroft: i'm not saying it can't be done
02:13 PM satiowadahc1171[: in my experience laser engraving pcb's takes alot of precision and patience. Milling needs really big traces or it'll rip the lamination off
02:13 PM roycroft: but it's a process
02:13 PM perry_j1987: ya you can let that dehydrate in a tray
02:13 PM Rab: Radio Shack used to carry FlCl3 under their Archer brand, and the official instructions were to flush used etchant down the toilet. That always seemed pretty suspect.
02:14 PM perry_j1987: it will be a long time before you have to deal with any sludge though for putzing around with home shop pcbs though
02:14 PM Rab: Some people still have cast iron plumbing, and the copper can't be good. Pretty dilute by that point, though.
02:15 PM roycroft: even if it's pretty dilute, it is irresponsible to release it into the wastewater stream
02:15 PM Rab: There are ways to precipitate the copper out and rejuvinate the etchant.
02:16 PM roycroft: a little diluted waste here and there adds up to real waste over time
02:16 PM roycroft: especially with heavy metals
02:16 PM perry_j1987: could always bottle it up and save it for when you need to root kill something heh
02:16 PM roycroft: which should NEVER be done
02:16 PM perry_j1987: i used zep root kill to start my cupric chloride etchant back in the day
02:17 PM roycroft: stump pulling is a hassle, and doesn't always get all the root bits
02:17 PM roycroft: but dumping heaving metals into the ground is almost criminal
02:18 PM perry_j1987: what if you dump it back into a copper mine
02:18 PM perry_j1987: >:)
02:19 PM travis_farmer[m]: fascinating, this has gone from laser etching, to PCB etching, to chemistry, and now stump-pulling 😉
02:19 PM Rab: Around the time I was pouring FlCl3 into the toilet as a child, my mother was dumping our used motor oil in a corner of the yard. No big deal, it made America great!
02:19 PM perry_j1987: lol
02:21 PM roycroft: it's all about copper
02:21 PM roycroft: rab: and that's where the maga people want to take us back to
02:22 PM roycroft: "colored only" drinking fountains will be next
02:22 PM Rab: Orange-colored only!
02:23 PM roycroft: "cheeto-face only"
02:23 PM * roycroft is done with that topic now for a while
02:23 PM Loetmichel: well, i live in germany. and i still pour the Na2S2O8 solution into the toilet after etching. But i puri it together with the NaOH developer beforehand and than filter the combined mess through a coffee filter. What goes down the toilet is basically pure salt water, the copper and photoresist falls out in flakes that sit in the filter
02:23 PM Loetmichel: MUCH less stuff to bring to the hazard recycling center
02:25 PM roycroft: as long as you can separate out the toxins and neutralize the acid so you're dumping liquid with a pH close to 7, that's fine
02:25 PM Loetmichel: Rab / roycroft: is that good or bad that it took me AGES to understand what a colored-only fountain is?
02:25 PM roycroft: i think it's good
02:26 PM roycroft: although you folks had a different kind of problem like that
02:26 PM roycroft: but let's not talk about the war :)
02:26 PM Loetmichel: yeah, i know
02:26 PM Loetmichel: was before my time though.
02:26 PM Rab: I agree, that stuff belongs in the dustbin of history. Although it's important to have some cultural awareness that it happened.
02:26 PM roycroft: it is very important
02:27 PM roycroft: history likes to repeat itself
02:27 PM roycroft: and if we don't remember history it's easier for it to repeat
02:27 PM Loetmichel: Rab: indeed. "those who ignore history are cursed to repeat it!"
02:27 PM cart_: yes in fact you should go as far as you can back in history and remember all of it
02:27 PM roycroft: which we can do, by definition
02:27 PM roycroft: history is what is documented
02:28 PM roycroft: the period before we documented events is prehistory
02:29 PM roycroft: but we can't just bury the documentation in catacombs
02:30 PM cart_: If they bothered to write it down since europe isnt the only civilization
02:30 PM cart_: society at least
02:32 PM roycroft: oral histories tend to not be as extant as written histories
02:32 PM roycroft: and they can more easily be lost
02:32 PM travis_farmer[m]: and corrupted
02:33 PM roycroft: in an age of "alternative facts" and "deep fakes", i'm not sure that holds as true as it used to
02:33 PM roycroft: especially since critical thinking/reading skills are no longer taught in schools, at least in this contry
02:34 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: were they EVER taught in ANY school?
02:35 PM roycroft: when i went to school, absolutely
02:35 PM roycroft: they weren't always learned, but they were taught
02:35 PM Loetmichel: and if you think deep fakes are bad: think about the middle ages where the only information you had were rumors and what the lord of the land let the lokal population know
02:36 PM roycroft: and whether someone weighed as much as a duck
02:36 PM Loetmichel: critical thinking is a skill that good parents should teach their children. NOT schools. those should concentrate on knowledge.
02:36 PM Loetmichel: IMHO.
02:37 PM roycroft: there are a lot of things parents should teach their children
02:37 PM roycroft: but they don't
02:37 PM roycroft: and often they can't, because so often both parents have to work full-time plus just to make ends meet
02:37 PM Loetmichel: yeah, what i meant is that a school teacher is no replacement for a good upbringing
02:39 PM roycroft: in the best of all possible worlds, they would not be a replacement for good parenting
02:39 PM travis_farmer[m]: i read somewhere that the larger percentage of time spent with the kids is by parents. so that is where the solid basic skills need to some from, with school being supplemental teaching to support those skills...
02:39 PM roycroft: but candide was wrong
02:42 PM skunkworks: there are so many echo chambers that feed on themselves now.
02:42 PM travis_farmer[m]: true
02:44 PM travis_farmer[m]: in other news... i am off all of my post-op pain meds (oxi), so once it is out of my system, i can work on my machine again 😄
02:45 PM Loetmichel: travis_farmer[m]: dont trust your judgement while on painkillers?
02:46 PM travis_farmer[m]: nope, not around dangerous machines
02:47 PM Loetmichel: oh, just googled it... yeah. "side effects include deep tiredness and drowsiness" right. bad idea to operate machines.
02:47 PM Loetmichel: you're right
02:48 PM travis_farmer[m]: yeah, not good stuff. glad to be off it
02:50 PM Loetmichel: <- wondered today if it should worry me that when a co-worker asked for a headache pill 5 of my 8 other co-workers had aspirin and paracetamol and some other "over the counter" painkillers at hand for him in less than 2 seconds.
02:50 PM Loetmichel: maybe my job enviroment is a bit stressful?
02:51 PM Loetmichel: me too btw. I have a strip of ASS500 under the keyboard. Just wasnt fast enough to get it out :)
02:51 PM travis_farmer[m]: could just be hard on the body, too
03:04 PM JT-Shop: bye bye viasat
03:05 PM JT-Shop: they offered me 20gb extra to stay
03:06 PM travis_farmer[m]: 20gb bandwidth or storage?
03:06 PM JT-Shop: 257 people looked at the planer in the last 14 days
03:08 PM JT-Shop: download data
03:11 PM JT-Shop: yuck I have to pull down the viasat dish myself
03:12 PM travis_farmer[m]: or join SETI and listen for little green men 😉
03:14 PM slime: seti is a big waste of time
03:15 PM Loetmichel: i'll bite: Why?
03:27 PM slime: they would need to be beaming an extremely powerful transmission at us if we want a chance to detect it
03:27 PM slime: i guess not impossible but seems unlikely
03:28 PM Loetmichel: IIRC was SETI searching for "technical" signals, not neccessary for intentional transmissions
03:28 PM Loetmichel: aka: high energy technical processes that have characteristic signals
03:28 PM slime: that makes more sense
03:53 PM v34michel[m]: hey, I'm starting a Plasma CNC cutter project. I've load and install LinuxCNC. I'm looking for a config set compatible with stepper motors thru parallèle port interface.
03:55 PM JT-Shop: just use the stepconf wizard to make your configuration files
04:03 PM pere: roguish[m]: did you get any further with git?
04:08 PM Tom_L: jt, glad to be rid of the sat i bet..
04:15 PM JT-Shop: ain't rid of it yet lol, gotta climb up on the roof and take the dish down and ship the modem and silver thingy back to them
04:16 PM Tom_L: one last kick in the pants
04:17 PM Tom_L: i had dish for quite a while and they wouldn't take no for an anwer... i spent 1.5 hrs telling them no
04:17 PM Tom_L: err directv
04:18 PM xxcodery: I hate dark patterns, both at websites and in reality with phone calls and in person
04:18 PM Tom_L: then they kept calling back wanting to know why... so i told them because you won't leave me alone and take no as a final request
04:18 PM xxcodery: it should be reasonable easy to say "I want to end this" and not work hour+ on closing account
04:19 PM JT-Shop: yep viasat was trying politely to keep me as a customer
04:19 PM JT-Shop: 10 years of viasat...
04:20 PM Tom_L: was nothing polite about directv
04:20 PM Tom_L: even the 2nd tier managers
04:20 PM Tom_L: 1st bunch wouldn't let me disconnect
04:21 PM Tom_L: if they want their dish back they can come and get it
04:22 PM travis_farmer[m]: lol
04:22 PM xxcodery: that may be inferred as stolen if your land has "private properity" or one of those "dont fear my dog, fear me" with picture of guns
04:23 PM Tom_L: if i have to take it down, it will be unuseable
04:23 PM JT-Shop: they don't want the dish just the electronics... I could keep it for $300
04:23 PM Tom_L: sry guys, i'm not mechanically enclined...
04:24 PM Tom_L: never dealt with anybody quite that bad
04:25 PM xxcodery: probably retain bonuses
04:25 PM xxcodery: nothing like making income depend on ignoring facts on making people ignore facts
04:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I always use "the * is haunted" as the reason and never have any issues returning anything
04:26 PM travis_farmer[m]: lol
04:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if it's small, wear gloves when you hand it to them
04:29 PM Tom_L: sry i don't think it's contagious...
04:29 PM Tom_L: you might ask your Dr
04:30 PM Rab: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/australias-snapped-handlebar-3d-printed-since-removed-from-sale-reports-claim/
04:30 PM Rab: Old news, but mildly interesting...that's some paper-thin sintered titanium in the pic.
04:31 PM Rab: No doubt the same failure could have happened with CF, if it was an overtightened fastener.
04:34 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, keep it and hook it to your dual wan router :)
04:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm debating using hex bar vs a splined drive shaft for a 1-2hp application
04:36 PM Tom_L: how long?
04:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 5ft
04:38 PM Tom_L: do you trust it to be straight?
04:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the only issue with hex bar is getting it in a good enough condition to not need additional machining
04:39 PM Rab: Prior art: https://www.skidsteerattachmentdepot.com/product/danuser-ep-10-hex-auger-with-9-bit/
04:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: getting it in straight is not a problem
04:40 PM Rab: I think the hex receiver might be the tricky part. The auger attachments I've seen usually seem to be cast.
04:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: having to clean up the flats
04:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rab: chinese hex socket :)
04:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the socket tolerance is probably worse than the cold rolled hex rod
04:55 PM Rab: For 1-2hp, might want an impact socket.
04:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.grobinc.com/cold-rolled-products/standard-spline-shafts/
04:56 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, for $300 I'll climb up and install the starlink dish and take viasat down at the same time
04:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 1117 mild steel shaft vs 1018
05:02 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, do they send you a shipper box?
05:02 PM Tom_L: last time i turned stuff in they told me just to take it to a UPS store and hand it to them
05:02 PM Tom_L: they didn't seem surprised...
05:03 PM Tom_L: scanned all the codes and gave me a receipt
05:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: A311 is only ~$1/ft more
05:08 PM JT-Shop: yes
05:14 PM JT-Shop: hmm the Click Plus can now do 3 axis motion control
05:19 PM Tom_L: what is click plus?
05:20 PM Tom_L: oh, plc
05:28 PM JT-Shop2: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/programmable_controllers/click_plus_plcs_(stackable_micro_modular)#start=0
05:35 PM roycroft: well i just picked up my taxes from my accountant
05:35 PM roycroft: i screwed up this year
05:35 PM roycroft: i underpaid my federal taxes by $52
05:35 PM Tom_L: https://www.automationdirect.com/clickplcs/clickplus/features
05:35 PM roycroft: but i overpaid my state taxes by $764
05:36 PM roycroft: so that will work out
05:40 PM * JT-Shop2 starts to close up for the night
05:40 PM Tom_L: started off rather chilly here
05:40 PM Tom_L: looks like overnite is 33
05:41 PM Tom_L: well 8am
05:41 PM roycroft: we're not going to get even close to freezing for a while
05:41 PM roycroft: but it's not uncommon for our first frost to be close to thanksgiving
05:41 PM Tom_L: hi 50
05:41 PM roycroft: i see minnesota has had snow already
05:41 PM JT-Shop: 29, 26, 30 for the next three nights
05:42 PM xxcodery: man
05:42 PM xxcodery: you guys weather is extreme
05:42 PM xxcodery: here its 60-70f
05:43 PM roycroft: that's pretty typical for the middle part of the country this time of year
05:43 PM roycroft: kansas and missouri are both pretty far from the ocean
05:43 PM roycroft: the bolts for my running boards are out for delivery, and i'm ready to install the running boards now
05:44 PM roycroft: so the mail probably won't show up until 9 tonight :)
05:47 PM JT-Shop: we're about as far as you can get from the ocean here
05:48 PM JT-Shop: my starlink mount is due Thursday so I guess this weekend I'll get up on the roof... which I don't care to do anymore
05:48 PM xxcodery: roy maybe they should invest in a ocean somewhere for stabilization ;)
05:49 PM roycroft: or get a heavy coat
05:50 PM xxcodery: lol
05:50 PM roycroft: i have a "north dakota" coat
05:50 PM roycroft: it is a heavy down coat
05:50 PM xxcodery: I have heavy duty coat too. avent worn it in over a decade
05:50 PM roycroft: i have not worn it in a good 2 years, as i've not been to north dakota or anywhere remotely that cold in that long
05:51 PM roycroft: if i put it on in the dead of winter here i would be sweating within minutes
05:51 PM xxcodery: yep
05:51 PM xxcodery: I just use thin leather coat in winters lol
05:51 PM roycroft: i have a lined wool coat that i wear most of the time in the winter, when it is not raining
05:51 PM roycroft: and even when it is lightly raining
05:53 PM JT-Shop: a blue jean shirt is good enough for me down to about 40°F then it's a jacket
05:53 PM JT-Shop: 20°F and below it's insulated carhartt bibs and coat
05:54 PM * JT-Shop calls it a night
05:54 PM roycroft: i'm thinking of getting a small oil-filled space heater for my garage shop
05:54 PM roycroft: i have a big hot-air electric heater for it, but that thing draws 30a@240v, and would cost me a fortune to run all winter long
05:55 PM roycroft: but a smaller heater might help prevent any rust on machine tables
05:55 PM roycroft: i do a good job of rust prevention, but sometimes i get a little anyway
06:09 PM xxcodery: cant use large heat pump?
06:09 PM xxcodery: even at worse snow effecacy is still better than 1:1
06:15 PM roycroft: i can get a small heater for $30 that would probably be fine
06:16 PM roycroft: well, last year i could get one for $30
06:16 PM roycroft: so it's probably $55 this year
06:23 PM Tom_L: wall mound ir heater
06:26 PM Tom_L: if i'm not in there, the pilot is enough to keep things from freezing up down in the teens
06:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: shop thermostat is @ 62F
06:53 PM roycroft: yeah, i don't need a lot for when i'm not working in the shop
06:53 PM xxcodery: my shop thermostat is set at Error, shop not found
06:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I haven't adjusted yet this year to the cold, we are around freezing out right now
06:54 PM xxcodery: just heating shop a little keeps humidity down
06:54 PM xxcodery: good for tools
06:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: was just using the oxy-propane torch inside
06:56 PM roycroft: mid-20s here through thursday, and sunny
06:56 PM roycroft: with lows around 10
06:56 PM roycroft: then friday the rain finally comes
06:56 PM roycroft: mid teens after that, with lows 5-8
06:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 21C for a high this weekend
06:56 PM roycroft: and rain every day for the forseeable future
06:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's up and down season
06:57 PM roycroft: real rain - 5-10mm/day every day
06:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: better than fire season or duck season
06:58 PM roycroft: it will be nice
06:58 PM roycroft: it will probably take a week for the ground to get wet, it will soak in so fast and so deep
06:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: whats the winter outlook like this year for the NW?
07:00 PM roycroft: we're still in a la ni~na cycle, so wet and mild
07:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we have a gale warning
07:00 PM xxcodery: "wet"
07:00 PM xxcodery: it havent actually seriously rained yet
07:00 PM roycroft: starting friday all that will change
07:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: will feel like -6C tonight
07:03 PM xxcodery: roy yep
07:03 PM xxcodery: i bet it will be all day rain.
07:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: have to get my winter sandals out
07:03 PM xxcodery: minor flood risk
07:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rab: https://www.usarollerchain.com/34-Hex-Shaft-p/34-hex-shaft.htm
07:06 PM * roycroft wonders if he should get his pickup ready for the running board installation, or whether that will cause the mail to arrive late
07:07 PM roycroft: our current forecast calls for rain starting at 2pm friday and never stopping
07:08 PM xxcodery: foreverrain is fun
07:19 PM roycroft: this is why i'm trying to get these little things fixed on my pickup right away
07:19 PM roycroft: it's a lot easier doing it when it's not raining
07:23 PM Rab: CaptHindsight[m], nice that they offer a bunch of mating parts.
07:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Concentric-International/3-4-Hex-Bore-Series-W-Weld-On-Roller-Chain-Sprocket-Hub-W3-4HX-1-2342-EHX.axd
07:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heh, looks like the same pic as usrollerchain
07:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yup https://www.usarollerchain.com/hex-bore-weld-on-x-hubs-s/3927.htm
08:43 PM roycroft: well the mail finally arrived a while ago, and i was able to get one running board installed before it started getting dark
08:43 PM roycroft: i did the important one first, of course :)
08:43 PM roycroft: and now it is not a struggle to get into my pickup
08:43 PM roycroft: i have no idea why anyone would remove running boards unless they were replacing them with nicer aftermarket ones
08:52 PM xxcodery: dunno though maybe its store that removed em
08:55 PM roycroft: the dealer said it came in without them
08:55 PM roycroft: he found a set in another truck he was parting out, and gave those to me
08:56 PM xxcodery: hmm weird then
08:59 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaMD_9kOlTA
09:11 PM roycroft: thanks for a link to another nasty, hateful political ad :P
09:11 PM Tom_L: funny, i get NO ads
09:12 PM * roycroft realises that all links go there a the moment
09:12 PM xxcodery: all my ads is simple machine
09:13 PM roycroft: we have a real race for governor
09:13 PM xxcodery: oh or rare instance of wa state solar program
09:13 PM roycroft: we haven't had a republican governor in 40 years, and this year's candidate is one of the worst ever
09:13 PM roycroft: but we have a former democrat running as an independant, and she's turning out to be a spoiler
09:14 PM roycroft: she's polling at 17%, and that leaves the democrat and the republican in a dead heat
09:14 PM xxcodery: tom you plan to make one? if so, for what use?
09:14 PM xxcodery: pretty cool concept
09:15 PM roycroft: sadly, that means the ads are both nastier than ever and more frequent than ever
09:16 PM Tom_L: no just thought it was neat
09:16 PM xxcodery: I miss my pc. I miss smoothly playing videos
09:16 PM xxcodery: tom ahh yeah it is that
09:17 PM xxcodery: I wonder if its possible to do two sequence to make prop flyer thing
09:17 PM xxcodery: just spin it enough and it will fly out
09:35 PM roycroft: wow
09:35 PM roycroft: dinner is over, i'm caught up on elections work
09:36 PM roycroft: the rest of my evening is free, and it's only 7:30
09:37 PM roycroft: this would be a good night for some serious cad work
09:38 PM xxcodery: nice
11:28 PM Thorhian[m]: Maybe you need adblock, something like ublock, roycroft. It helps with my sanity. Now I just need a DNS sinkhole…
11:30 PM Thorhian[m]: Also, some people get enough of politics else where. Why does it need to be here when it has nothing to do with LCNC, FOSS, or machining?
11:31 PM xxcodery: i also use youtube addon to remove ads specifically in youtube
11:31 PM xxcodery: usually anyway. I dont have it on rpi
11:33 PM Thorhian[m]: If you have an extra pi zero laying around you could run pihole on it and have your router redirect all DNS calls to it.