#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 12 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:52 AM mrec: does axis support displaying a drill (horizontal)?
01:01 AM mrec: for some reason after running G43 H2 / M61 Q2 the triangle / cone also disappears (even when switching back)
01:32 AM mrec: okay need to juggle with I / J front angle / back angle
01:51 AM pere: hi
01:56 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:16 AM mrec: https://i.snipboard.io/nK9dB0.jpg
02:16 AM mrec: is there only the round tool available in linuxcnc / lathe mode
02:58 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:58 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:13 AM Tom_L: Thorhian[m], those txt displays are all pretty much the same
03:13 AM Tom_L: i've actually got a few of those
03:13 AM Tom_L: you can get them in blue/white as well
03:14 AM Tom_L: https://www.adafruit.com/product/181
03:16 AM Tom_L: HD44780 controller was very common back then on those
03:16 AM Tom_L: o
03:16 AM Tom_L: i'd look for a 4 line personally
03:18 AM Tom_L: the 4 line, the addressing on the lines was a little wonky
03:18 AM Tom_L: iirc 1-3, 2-4 were esentially the same line
03:18 AM randy: if you go for i2c enabled lcd, it shouldnt be a big issue
03:19 AM Tom_L: right
03:19 AM Tom_L: i was messin with them before i2c was a big thing
03:19 AM Tom_L: they have an 8 and 4 bit programming mode
03:19 AM randy: well, it more "laggy" e.g. screen refresh rate is slower than 8bit/4bit parallel mode
03:20 AM randy: but enough for most applications IMHO
03:20 AM Tom_L: since they're already very slow devices programming in 4bit mode was preferred due to pin count
03:20 AM Tom_L: i made a serial board for them
03:20 AM randy: if you use the R/W pin and read the display status back, you can speed up write to display ram :)
03:21 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/serial_lcd_brd.png
03:22 AM Tom_L: supported both single and dual row headers
03:22 AM Tom_L: iirc i've got a 1 x 40 somewhere
03:22 AM randy: how do you handle contrast voltage?
03:22 AM Tom_L: pot on the board iirc
03:22 AM Tom_L: it's been ages
03:23 AM randy: hehe
03:23 AM Tom_L: left side of that pic shows a pot
03:23 AM randy: btw, i love the new OLED replacement boards
03:23 AM Tom_L: those are nice but have a specific start sequence
03:23 AM Tom_L: if you don't get it right you can destroy em
03:23 AM randy: real "black", dim via contrast voltage, nearly no current drawn
03:24 AM Tom_L: but most of them now have that taken care of and are i2c
03:24 AM randy: i mean the "normal" character styl hd44780 combatible ones
03:24 AM Tom_L: Thorhian[m], here's one of the 4 line ones: https://www.gravitech.us/20chbllcd.html
03:25 AM Tom_L: i personally like the white / blue better than the old green
03:25 AM randy: :)
03:26 AM Tom_L: iirc i also had a 1 x 8 tiny one
03:26 AM Tom_L: just about had to scroll with those to get much info
03:27 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/mtkflash/lcd_txt.jpg
03:27 AM Tom_L: serial
03:28 AM Tom_L: off some old phone equipment iirc
03:29 AM xxcodery: sure is alot of text
03:29 AM xxcodery: ;
03:29 AM xxcodery: :)
03:31 AM * Tom_L was woke up with a 3am phonecall (never good)
03:31 AM * Tom_L goes back to sleep
03:31 AM xxcodery: night
03:38 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/LCD/
03:38 AM Tom_L: avr code for those lcds
03:58 AM Vq_ is now known as Vq
04:34 AM mrec: hmm in linuxcnc / tool table there's no field for the tool shape any suggestion where to put it? eg. parting tool, circlip grooving inserts
04:34 AM mrec: in lathe mode axis pretends everything has a round tip
04:35 AM mrec: the drawing happens in lib/python/rs274/glcanon.py
04:45 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:20 AM Deejay: moin
05:53 AM Tom_L: morning
05:53 AM Tom_L: mrec, put it in the comments
05:54 AM JT-Cave: you get any rain yesterday?
05:55 AM Tom_L: the ground is wet but not raining now
05:55 AM JT-Cave: https://radar.weather.gov/station/kpah/standard
05:55 AM JT-Cave: looks more to the east of me
05:56 AM Tom_L: looks like whatever we're getting has passed
05:56 AM Tom_L: https://www.wunderground.com/maps/radar/current/sln
05:56 AM mrec: Tom_L: I think this can be reworked quite a bit
05:57 AM mrec: the whole thing was not made for various inserts more or less only for one shape
05:58 AM Tom_L: rework it and add industry standard tool libs to it with recomended feed/speed etc :)
05:59 AM Tom_L: i'm sure sandvik, iscar etc have them
05:59 AM mrec: I'm still studying linuxcnc, for now I have added a check if abs(frontangle-backangle)<1e-5 and abs(frontangle-90)<1e-5: make it flat
06:00 AM Tom_L: square, diamond, rectangle, triangle etc
06:12 AM mrec: Tom_L: do you know how tolerances are checked in practice? yesterday I turned some steel and the insert chipped a little bit at the corner which made one edge of my part going out of spec
06:13 AM mrec: and I wonder if the frontangle / backangle has any meaning in linuxcnc (not only in axis)
06:13 AM mrec: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/lathe/images/tool-positions_en.svg
06:13 AM mrec: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/lathe/lathe-user.html
06:17 AM JT-Cave: it's been reported that using the 5.10.0-18-rt-amd64 linux-image fixes the ethernet issues with mesa cards
06:17 AM mrec: JT-Cave: is there an issue with 4.19.0-11-rt-amd64?
06:17 AM mrec: I still have my mesa card lying around since I'm busy with other things at the moment
06:18 AM JT-Cave: afaik 4.x works fine
06:21 AM JT-Cave: running my 7i96 on debian 11 with the 5.10.0-18-rt-amd64 linux-image now
06:21 AM JT-Cave: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/bookworm_di_alpha1+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/
06:22 AM JT-Cave: debian has an iso for debian 12 now
06:30 AM pere: we could make a linuxcnc iso for debian 12 too. no idea where it should be stored.
06:38 AM mrec: Tom_L: I think a new field in the tool table should be introduced for various insert types
07:12 AM JT-Cave: I think Andy's tool database would be better
07:22 AM mrec: Andy has done some work on it? do you know where?
07:31 AM mrec: andypugh: hi :)
07:44 AM JT-Cave: a long time ago he created a branch
07:45 AM JT-Cave: might be this one https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/andypugh/tooltable
07:50 AM Tom_L: 4 letter indicators like TNMG would describe the geometry
08:05 AM andypugh: 14,000 commits behind…
08:06 AM andypugh: The database schema I came up with (working with Tormach) is here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ToolDatabase
08:07 AM andypugh: There is, in the current deve version of LinuxCNC, support for using a tool database: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/tooldatabase/tooldatabase.html
08:08 AM andypugh: That is an interface (added by Dewey) rather than an implementation (as I was working on)
08:11 AM andypugh: It doesn’t supply any more information to LinuxCNC than does the existing tool table, but then LinuxCNC doesn’t know what to do with any more than that.
08:11 AM Tom_L: interface would allow mfg to update and make it more seamless
08:11 AM andypugh: But, for example, your own database could contain insert and holder into, and your query script would convert those into tool orientation, frontangle and backangle.
08:12 AM andypugh: A low-hanging-fruit her would be a shim script to interface a Fusion360 tool file to LinuxCNC.
08:28 AM JT-Shop: wow it's raining and I still have internet
08:35 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:39 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:45 AM JT-Cave: andypugh, did you see that 5.10.0-18-rt-amd64 linux-image works with a mesa ethernet card?
09:53 AM Thorhian[m]: I prefer the black background with the individual “pixels” shining out against the black background. My ender 3 uses the blue background. Also, this is for using the specific interface on the 7i73, so no i2c for me.
09:54 AM Thorhian[m]: @Tom_L
10:24 AM JT-Shop: Huth HB-10 is getting a new zip code today
10:32 AM mrec: Tom_L: the current interface also allows more or less easy updates
10:32 AM mrec: just add new identifiers
10:35 AM mrec: andypugh: do you know is the tool orientation used somewhere else too or just for visualisation?
10:35 AM mrec: it should be used for "compensation" I guess
11:51 AM JT-Shop2: raining pretty good now
11:55 AM * roycroft still does not understand what that word means
11:58 AM andypugh: mrec: Just for visualisation I believe. Though I did use the frontangle and backangle in the lathe roughing passes code I wrote. I am not sure if they are used in the actually-implemented bersion though.
11:59 AM andypugh: Top Tip! If you are sand-casting then you get a lot more metal into the mould if you take the pattern out first!
11:59 AM andypugh: (Doh!)
12:01 PM mrec: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/lathe/lathe-user.html
12:01 PM mrec: this has some interesting overview it usually doesn't affect me because I'm mostly using the parting tool for making my parts
12:02 PM mrec: Cutting a Radius
12:02 PM mrec: and cutter compensation .. it's quite some topic I guess it should be implemented/or is also implemented in linuxcnc too (not only in the frontend)
12:03 PM andypugh: mrec: Ah, yes, it has a bearing on the radius compensation. I had forgotten that,
12:04 PM mrec: by the way dgarrett has implemented what I was looking for
12:04 PM mrec: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/46958-jogging-at-a-certain-angle-lathe-mode?start=10#253252
12:04 PM mrec: this will be very useful for lathe users
12:05 PM mrec: ... bye bye compound
12:33 PM solarwind: Hey guys, so I want to put a servo or such on my lathe lead screw
12:33 PM solarwind: I know a closed loop stepper will likely be more than enough, but I want to experiment with a servo
12:34 PM Loetmichel: solarwind: making an "electronic" gearbox for cutting threads?
12:34 PM solarwind: The only thing is, they're usually low torque and high speed. And precision low backlash gearboxes are more expensive than the entire servo + driver
12:34 PM mrec: I have put a servo there, but a closed loop stepper should have a higher torque
12:34 PM solarwind: is there a way to gear down the servo without spending like $500 on the gearbox itself
12:34 PM Loetmichel: solarwind: certain forms of timing belts are backlash-free
12:34 PM solarwind: The only other reasonable option is a bigger servo, which is fine with me
12:35 PM Loetmichel: make a gearbox out of multiple belts
12:35 PM solarwind: Loetmichel that's what I was thinking as well after watching ThisOldTony's Maho conversion
12:35 PM mrec: turning itself is no problem, sometimes drilling could be a problem
12:35 PM Loetmichel: IIRC the "half round" teeth ones are the backlash-free ones
12:35 PM Loetmichel: not the trapezodial
12:35 PM solarwind: also on my knee mill, the Z axis is heavy, so a 1.3kW servo direct drive would be fine: https://www.dmm-tech.com/ac_servomotor_main_a1.html
12:36 PM mrec: I have directly attached a JMC 180W motor to the Z axis (I removed the leadscrew)
12:36 PM Loetmichel: on the other hand: the leadscrew itself usually has plenty of backlash
12:36 PM solarwind: $380 USD for a 1.3kW brushless servo is very reasonable
12:36 PM Loetmichel: that has to be compensated anyways
12:36 PM solarwind: and medium inertia not a big deal for Z axis on a knee mill
12:36 PM solarwind: I have a 14x40 toolroom lathe by the way
12:37 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: If you are using the standard lead screw in the lathe then backlash in the gearbox is not an issue.
12:37 PM Loetmichel: thats what i meant
12:37 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] no it will be replaced with a ballscrew
12:37 PM solarwind: both the X and Y will be replaced with ballscreww
12:37 PM Loetmichel: isnt that x and z on a lathe?
12:37 PM mrec: for X I have no problem with my leadscrew
12:37 PM solarwind: It needs torque, not 6000 RPM servos lol
12:37 PM mrec: XZ is lathe yes
12:38 PM mrec: you're pushing from one side on X so I did not bother replacing the leadscrew
12:38 PM solarwind: like 400W servo is more than good enough, but the rated torque is 1.27N•m continuous/3.82N•m peak
12:38 PM Loetmichel: solarwind: well: i have worked with 3kW continous three phase servos,
12:38 PM solarwind: the ones I'm looking at are all brushless 3 phase servos
12:39 PM Loetmichel: they can do both. A few 100 Nm torque OR 6kRPM ;)
12:39 PM solarwind: standard PM AC
12:39 PM solarwind: well yeah my machine tools don't need that, it's overkill
12:39 PM solarwind: I don't need insane rapids, but I do need adequate torque
12:39 PM Loetmichel: was funny wenn there is a label "3kW cont." and then a line below that: "Max Phase current: 192A"
12:39 PM Loetmichel: ... at 380V ;)
12:40 PM solarwind: also thinking about adding a secondary spindle to the lathe spindle for high speed turning small parts
12:40 PM solarwind: that is, mounting a CNC router spindle or something in the lathe chuck and locking the chuck down
12:40 PM solarwind: carbide inserts really need high speed for small diameter parts
12:40 PM mrec: solarwind: did you think about the tailstock too?
12:40 PM solarwind: mrec what do you mean?
12:41 PM solarwind: Well I don't need to CNC convert that yet. I'll be happy with X and Y
12:41 PM solarwind: and encoder on spindle is easy
12:41 PM mrec: well I'm there, I want to add some hydraulic/pneumatic system (I ordered some cylinders for that) so I can let linuxcnc work off a longer bar without re-feeding it
12:42 PM Loetmichel: mrec: hmm. I heard hydraulic/pneumatic chucks are really expensive
12:42 PM solarwind: just need to come up with a decent way to gear down the servo like 2:1 - 4:1 ratio
12:42 PM Loetmichel: really thats worth the expense?
12:42 PM mrec: Loetmichel: diy should not be so expensive, just add a cylinder and a spring + safety switch (that's what I thought about)
12:43 PM mrec: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004387672717.html
12:43 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: 2:1 or 4:1 is easy with a timing belt system.
12:43 PM Loetmichel: solarwind: as i said: search for HDT Timing belts and pulleys
12:43 PM solarwind: Loetmichel yeah I think that's the way to go, thanks
12:43 PM mrec: that's what I have ordered, but I also ordered a pneumatic one for studying it
12:44 PM Loetmichel: mrec: i was wondering about the chuck. if you want to move the stock material you need a chuck that can be opened and closed by the PLC
12:44 PM solarwind: Is it worth getting servos with a holding brake?
12:45 PM Loetmichel: those are really expensive IIRC
12:45 PM solarwind: for regular CNC use
12:45 PM mrec: Loetmichel: that's why I have chosen a bidirectional hydraulic pump
12:45 PM Loetmichel: solarwind: depends if you want the thing to stop and hold at Estop or if you are fine with just holding position while powered
12:45 PM solarwind: fine with holding while powered
12:46 PM Loetmichel: then you dont need a brake
12:46 PM solarwind: just wondering if the brake has any benefit
12:46 PM solarwind: ok thanks
12:46 PM Loetmichel: (maybe except for the Z axis on a Mill)
12:46 PM solarwind: oh right, with a ballscrew
12:46 PM solarwind: that's so true
12:46 PM mrec: I never had an issue without brake on the Z axis
12:47 PM Loetmichel: because running down Z-axis while Estop pressed on a mill makes nasty gashes in hands.
12:47 PM Loetmichel: BTDT
12:47 PM Loetmichel: :)
12:47 PM solarwind: I guess I'll get a big 1.3kW servo with brake for the Z axis
12:47 PM solarwind: well also I don't want to just heat up the windings holding Z position
12:47 PM Loetmichel: as long as the driver is powered the brake is disengaged anyways
12:47 PM solarwind: but then again, I just remembered I'll be adding a counterweight
12:48 PM Loetmichel: so no more or less heating than usual
12:48 PM Loetmichel: regardless of brake
12:48 PM mrec: I highly doubt that you'll be overheating the Z axis without brake
12:48 PM solarwind: oh, so the brake isn't used during operation?
12:48 PM Loetmichel: brake is for powered off
12:48 PM solarwind: I thought it's an actively used thing during machining operations
12:48 PM Loetmichel: nope
12:48 PM solarwind: if that's not the case, then no need for brake
12:49 PM Loetmichel: unless you use the servo for lathe spindle drive motor
12:49 PM Loetmichel: THERE it can make sense to use the brake in operation
12:49 PM solarwind: No need for that just yet. Encoder on the spindle should be more than enough for my needs
12:49 PM Loetmichel: because sometimes you have biig mass at high speeds in the chuck
12:49 PM solarwind: I'm not mill turning or whatever
12:51 PM Loetmichel: btw: the usual servo brakes dont have replaceable brake pads. so using them in normal operation while the motor is turning is a nono anyways
12:51 PM Loetmichel: they would wear down WAY to fast
12:51 PM solarwind: Ah ok, thanks for the info
12:52 PM solarwind: I know what to look for now
12:52 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, the servo brakes are only to be used when the system is shut down. Your drive will also get very unhappy if the brake is on when the servo is enabled.
12:53 PM Loetmichel: indeed
12:56 PM Loetmichel: those brakes are more for afromentoined BIIIG servos that move HUGE mass
12:57 PM Loetmichel: i have helped build a CNC brake disc grinder that moved a half metric ton rotating table over 1 meter linearly for loading and unloading workpieces
12:57 PM Loetmichel: ... in less than a second from stop to stop
12:57 PM Loetmichel: that stuff is SCARY if you have no brake on Estop
12:58 PM Loetmichel: <- shot the hard endstops across the factory floor and knocked out a brick in the wall with them while programming the soft endstops for that axis ;)
12:59 PM Loetmichel: *GUNSHOT* *Impact sound* "/$&%$/&/(%/& damn it, my bad, miscalculated!"
12:59 PM Loetmichel: Ooops... :)
01:01 PM Loetmichel: the rotating table stopped only an inch late or so. still ripped 4 M8 8.8 screws off and flung the endstops on the linear rails across the floor
01:02 PM Loetmichel: Inertia is a bitch.
02:15 PM mrec: Loetmichel: do you have experience with pneumatic screwdrivers?
02:48 PM roycroft: so yeah, that hassle is over with
02:48 PM roycroft: i just bought a new pickup
02:48 PM roycroft: and it was kind of overkill, but i don't mind that
02:49 PM roycroft: i got an '01 f350 super duty 4x4 with a 7.3l diesel engine
02:50 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: stinky diesel ???
02:50 PM roguish[m]: come down this way. diesel fuel has at times been more expensive than gas.
02:51 PM roguish[m]: and is still over $6 / gal
02:52 PM roycroft: the 5.4 liter gas engine for this truck gets 12mpg
02:52 PM roycroft: the 7.4l diesel gets 18mpg
02:52 PM roycroft: do the math :)
02:53 PM roycroft: and i usually run b99 in a diesel vehicle
02:53 PM roycroft: i have no idea what b99 costs these days
02:53 PM roycroft: but i drive my pickup about 2000 miles/year at most
02:53 PM roycroft: so the cost of fuel is all but irrelevant
02:58 PM xxcodery: yeah diesel is best for that, plus typical extreme reliability on low or very high miles usage
02:58 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Pickup.jpeg
02:58 PM roycroft: i hate that it has a crew cab
02:58 PM roycroft: but about 95% of all pickups these days have a crew cab
02:58 PM xxcodery: in least I know it wont be shiny back
02:59 PM roycroft: it has 371k miles, but on a diesel that's not too many
02:59 PM roycroft: brand new glow plugs, injectors, and valve cover harness
03:00 PM roycroft: those are the things that usually need refreshing on a diesel engine
03:00 PM roycroft: i should be able to get a couple hundred thousand more miles on that engine, easily
03:00 PM roycroft: and the a/c works!
03:00 PM roycroft: all the electronics work except the mirrors, which i'll probably replace anyway
03:01 PM roycroft: the headlight lenses are yellowed, but i have some very recent experience refurbishing those things
03:01 PM roycroft: and on this vehicle replacement lenses should be cheap - i don't have to replace the entire housing like i would on the prius
03:01 PM xxcodery: well looks like perfect match
03:02 PM roycroft: yeah
03:02 PM xxcodery: only one flaw and its not too bad
03:02 PM roycroft: so i have to drive the old toyota exactly one more time, ever - from my back yard to the street
03:02 PM roycroft: so it can get towed away!
03:02 PM roycroft: there are two other flaws
03:02 PM roycroft: the previous owner had a fifth wheel, so there are some holes in the bed where the hitch was mounted, and there is no tailgate
03:03 PM roycroft: i can live with both of those
03:03 PM roycroft: i'm thinking of getting a bed liner, and i can get a used tailgate for cheap
03:03 PM roycroft: or i can get a lift gate for not cheap, but it would be very nice to have
03:03 PM xxcodery: not too bad. you could first protect the cut edges of holes, then just use bolts to cover holes
03:04 PM roycroft: the mounting holes, yes
03:04 PM roycroft: but there's a big hole in the middle that's about 3" in diameter
03:04 PM roycroft: i can make a cover plate for it
03:04 PM xxcodery: ah yes yeah
03:04 PM roycroft: i'm not at all worried about that stuff
03:05 PM roycroft: also, it sits rather high, and does not have running boards
03:05 PM roycroft: so i'm going to have to get running boards or steps to make it easy to get in and out of the cab
03:06 PM xxcodery: yeah id do same.
03:06 PM roycroft: if my name was wilt chamberlain i wouldn't bother with that
03:06 PM roycroft: but it's not
03:07 PM xxcodery: lol
03:26 PM JT-Shop: looks clean
03:26 PM roycroft: yeah, it's pretty clean
03:27 PM roycroft: which i wanted
03:27 PM roycroft: i'm tired of ratty looking work vehicles
03:30 PM JT-Shop: my friend down at Revere was needing a couple pneumatic slides for a project and I sent him a photo of the 3 slides I had on the shelf
03:30 PM JT-Shop: he asked me how much for the two matching slides... I told him $100 for 2 $75 for 3
03:40 PM roycroft: he does need a spare
03:43 PM JT-Shop: more than I do lol
03:50 PM Rab: <roycroft> but i drive my pickup about 2000 miles/year at most
03:51 PM Rab: roycroft, watch out for algae.
03:51 PM Rab: We have had terrible diesel algae problems with trucks at work, switched around a bunch of different filling stations and ended up replacing the tank on one vehicle.
03:52 PM Rab: Said vehicle tends to sit for months at a time, which I think promotes growth.
03:52 PM xxcodery: in fuel tanks?
03:52 PM Rab: Indeed.
03:52 PM xxcodery: ok
03:54 PM Rab: We also drive these trucks coast to coast, so it's possible a bad fill-up from another state was brought back home and left to sit.
03:54 PM Rab: But they're on a regimen of diesel fuel stabilizer and fungicide now.
03:56 PM Rab: roycroft, that's a shockingly macho ride. Next you'll be turning a pair of brass truck nuts.
03:56 PM roycroft: yes, i know that can be a problem with diesel fuel tanks
03:56 PM roycroft: water as well
03:57 PM roycroft: and since i won't be driving it all that much i'll probably keep the fuel tank fairly low most of the time, so i can add fresh fuel frequently
03:58 PM Rab: Hmm...might promote tank rust.
03:58 PM roycroft: that helps, but it also can make the water problem worse - there is more condensation when the tank is empty than when it's full
03:58 PM roycroft: this is by no means my first diesel vehicle
03:58 PM Rab: Although it could be an aluminum or plastic tank, I guess.
03:58 PM roycroft: i'm not sure
03:59 PM roycroft: but since both the heat and the a/c work fine, i'll probably drive it more often than my old pickup
03:59 PM roycroft: even if i don't need it, i'll drive it once/month or so at least
03:59 PM roycroft: and i have to admit, a bigger vehicle that sits up pretty high is fun to drive
04:01 PM Rab: Is it a V8 or an I6?
04:01 PM Rab: (Or something else)
04:02 PM roycroft: v8
04:03 PM roycroft: https://dieselresource.com/diesel-resources/7-3l-powerstroke-specifications/
04:03 PM roycroft: mine is a 2001
04:03 PM roycroft: so first gen powerstroke
04:06 PM roycroft: the fuel tank is 38 gallons, so it's going to cost me about $200 to fill itup
04:06 PM roycroft: but i should only have to do that 3-4 times/year
04:07 PM xxcodery: ouch lol
04:07 PM xxcodery: yeah so it'll be under 1k to 1k a year. not bad at all
04:08 PM JT-Shop: what the heck is a red flag warning for weather?
04:10 PM roycroft: oh, and not that it's really needed here except on extremely rare occasions, but there's a block heater installed in the truck
04:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: chop the crew cab and add an extra meter of bed length
04:27 PM roycroft: the bed is plenty long as it is
04:28 PM roycroft: i might pull the seat out of the crew cab, so at least it will be good for secure, dry storage
04:28 PM roycroft: and my credit union just called and approved the loan
04:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: remove the rear seats and add some cooking appliances, roycrofts hard terrain tacos express, food truck for difficult to reach wilderness workers
04:33 PM * xxcodery approves of credit union
04:34 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, fire danger
04:34 PM Tom_L: A Red Flag Warning means warm temperatures, very low humidities, and stronger winds are expected to combine to produce an increased risk of fire danger.
04:36 PM Tom_L: roycroft, that's gonna look out of place parked next to the prius
04:43 PM JT-Shop: ah
04:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: his trucks bumper sticker can be "My Other Truck is a Prius"
04:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or camo the truck https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/37/ba/b337babb823054452d384eadf6301b71.jpg
04:46 PM JT-Shop: hmm I can't connect to my router with my laptop...
04:55 PM roycroft: i was looking at a pickup yesterday that had a bumper sticker on the front bumper that said "prius crusher"
04:58 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: I like the red. my F150 is red. 1998. small v8
04:58 PM roycroft: i'm not particular about the color
04:59 PM roguish[m]: holy poop. it's 4 wheel also.
04:59 PM roycroft: traditionally, folks are warned to not drive red cars, as they are cop magnets
04:59 PM roycroft: but i think that applies to sports cars more than work vehicles
04:59 PM roycroft: yes, a 4x4 was one of my requirements
04:59 PM roguish[m]: ya got it. go cruzin....
04:59 PM roycroft: 7.3l is roughly 424cc, iirc
05:00 PM roycroft: it's a big engine
05:00 PM roycroft: 445cubic inches
05:00 PM roycroft: not 424
05:00 PM roycroft: 275hp
05:01 PM roycroft: but that's diesel hp, so i have pretty much all of it at 1rpm
05:01 PM roycroft: and i tested 4 high and 4 low
05:01 PM roycroft: they're fine
05:01 PM roycroft: the autolock works fine, so i don't have to dial the hubs to use 4wd
05:02 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i had that problem with my kids laptop the other day
05:02 PM Tom_L: windows?
05:02 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what fixed it but i reinstalled the driver because it said it wasn't on then rebooted
05:02 PM JT-Shop: yep
05:03 PM Tom_L: it finally came back to life
05:03 PM JT-Shop: the wifi driver?
05:03 PM Tom_L: yes
05:03 PM Tom_L: his wasn't showing up under the device list as ready
05:03 PM Tom_L: device manager..
05:05 PM Tom_L: with windows, it could very likely be the moon phase
05:07 PM Tom_L: https://mysupport.razer.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1957/~/how-to-fix-the-razer-blade-that-is-disconnecting-from-wi-fi-or-cant-connect-to
05:07 PM Tom_L: uninstall then scan for hardware changes
05:08 PM Tom_L: for god's sake don't do a system recovery!
05:08 PM Tom_L: i have NEVER had one of those work in any windows version i've ever used
05:21 PM JT-Shop_: hmm phone connects
05:22 PM JT-Shop_ is now known as JT-Shop
05:23 PM JT-Shop: power cycle the router fixed it, I assume when I turned off wifi the other day and turned it back on a reboot was needed
05:31 PM roycroft: and i have a friend on her way to take me to the dealership, so i can get my new pickup today
05:31 PM roycroft: that is excellent - everything handled in one day
05:32 PM roycroft: but the happier day will be the one when the toyota goes away
05:38 PM roycroft: it just dawned on me that while i said red is not the color i would choose, my toyota is burgandy, which is in the red family
05:38 PM roycroft: and the very first pickup i ever owned was a red '52 ford flat top six
05:40 PM xxcodery: lol while colors never really mattered to me, I probably wont buy black/black color vehicle again
05:40 PM xxcodery: insides gets hot
05:40 PM xxcodery: cook cookies hot. probably to almost crisp
05:41 PM roycroft: i don't like a black exterior because it shows every speck of dirt and dust
05:41 PM roycroft: plus the hot thing
05:42 PM JT-Shop: toyota doa?
05:43 PM Tom_L: powercycling the router may put it in discovery mode too
05:44 PM xxcodery: DOL more like jt lol as he had it for a while ;)
05:45 PM xxcodery: roy honestly dont really care about dirt. I only go to car washes and wax to retain good paint
05:46 PM Tom_L: i keep em out of the sun when possible
05:46 PM xxcodery: no space for me to unfortunately
05:46 PM xxcodery: may change in future
05:48 PM * JT-Shop calls it a day
09:01 PM roycroft: so i forgot to mention what is perhaps the best feature of this new pickup
09:01 PM roycroft: it does not smell like dog
09:01 PM roycroft: not at all
09:01 PM roycroft: and it's the only one i checked out that does not
09:52 PM solarwind: As far as linuxcnc and the mesa cards go, I understand that the mesa FPGA cards generate the steps
09:52 PM solarwind: so if I want to use an analog servo drive, where is the loop closed?
09:53 PM solarwind: The servo drives support both step/dir and velocity/torque. They support driving them like a stepper motor and the loop is closed in the servo drive itself
09:53 PM solarwind: but if I wanted to run them in velocity/torque mode, where is the loop closed and how do the mesa cards come into the picture here?
09:54 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: For an analog servo drive the typical place to close the loop is in the linuxcnc realtime layer.
09:55 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The mesa cards have the ADC and encoder logic.
09:55 PM solarwind: ok that's what I was unsure about
09:55 PM solarwind: that makes sense
09:55 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: LinuxCNC sends the analog velocity value to the DAC on the mesa card and reads the encoder value from the FPGA counter logic.
09:55 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I believe it is possible to close the loop on the FPGA itself but I have not looked into that.
09:56 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The PID control is in linuxcnc.
09:57 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Torque mode works best with a higher frequency servo loop (>=4kHz), Velocity mode works fine at 1kHz.
09:58 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] thanks, that clears it up
09:58 PM solarwind: I have a few machines I have yet to set up
09:58 PM solarwind: I have the 7i77 cards and everything already on hand
09:59 PM solarwind: the worst thing about the mesa cards is the part numbers lol
09:59 PM solarwind: they make no sense. I have to label every single antistatic bag with the description of the card
10:00 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I work in the semiconductor space and I am used to dealing with random strings of numbers that have no logical basis. The mesa numbering makes sense to me 🙂
10:06 PM solarwind: leadshine has been putting out some interesting servo drives lately
10:07 PM solarwind: the ethercat stuff is interesting, but not sure how that can have better loop bandwidth over analog
10:08 PM solarwind: I am a fan of optical whenever possible though
10:08 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ethercat is better as the position loop is closed on the drive. The drive can run the loop much faster than if using a host controller.
10:08 PM solarwind: fibre optic cables in as many places as possible. The cheap SFP transceivers work really well in dumb mode like an optocoupler
10:09 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You need a different motion planner to take advantage of it though.
10:09 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] the servo drives all seem to support closing the loop at the drive
10:09 PM solarwind: all the drives I'm looking at support step/dir and analog
10:09 PM solarwind: in step/dir mode, they all close the loop in the drive itself
10:10 PM solarwind: which is why I'm wondering if I should let LinuxCNC close the loop or if I should run it in open loop mode and let the drive close the loop
10:11 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ethercat is more advanced as you give each drive motion segments and the drive takes care of the rest. (depending on the ethercat mode you are using).
10:11 PM solarwind: https://www.dmm-tech.com/Dyn4_main.html and https://www.leadshine.com/products/servo/servo-drive/el7-series.html these are both very well priced servo drives which support standard analog input as well as step dir and they handle closing the loop in the drive
10:11 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] yeah, so does LinuxCNC have algorithms which support those motion profiles?
10:12 PM solarwind: In a case like this: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/mach4-ethercat-system/ethercat-servo-motor-kit-1000w-220vac I don't know what the motion controller is
10:12 PM solarwind: I'm guessing it's Mach4?
10:13 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I was looking at the DYN5 drives to replace the analog drives on my machine.
10:13 PM solarwind: and not sure what kind of messages Mach4 is sending to the drives over ethercat
10:13 PM solarwind: I'm going to email them for Dyn5 drive pricing. Don't know why they didn't list those on the site
10:13 PM solarwind: those look like very nice drives and a very accessible cost
10:14 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: No. It would need to be developed. I know there is ethercat in linuxcnc but only in a simplistic mode AFAIK
10:14 PM solarwind: Silly how they're based in Canada and have pricing in USD though
10:15 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I had a quote for the Dyn5 drive, the T01 was 540USD and the TS01 was 620. You also need the encoders if not using their motors.
10:15 PM solarwind: yeah not a big deal
10:16 PM solarwind: for the motors I have, I already have the drives for them
10:16 PM solarwind: For the rest, I'm talking it out here and deciding which to buy
10:17 PM solarwind: already have the PCIe mesa cards, both the analog and digital I/O ones
10:17 PM solarwind: just bought a whole bunch of different daughter cards to play with and figure out what I like
10:22 PM solarwind: what is "position" control mode?
10:22 PM solarwind: "Position, Velocity, Torque servo modes"
10:24 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: step/dir
10:24 PM solarwind: ah ok
10:36 PM solarwind: I don't understand why DMM needs to make 10 different models, one for each communication type
10:36 PM solarwind: it can all be stuffed into the same model for next to no cost increase
10:36 PM solarwind: You already have the I/O pins and RJ45 jack. The rest is just software
10:41 PM solarwind: I'm inclined to try the ethercat drives and see if I can eliminate the need for mesa boards
10:42 PM solarwind: don't mind writing the interface code for linuxcnc if necessary
10:43 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ethercat is already supported. There is a realtime driver.
10:44 PM solarwind: IS it doing the position profile over ethercat?
10:44 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I would assume so but I have not looked at it in detail.