#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 18 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:29 AM unterhaus: that's not exactly the most striking version of damascus steel I have seen
12:39 AM XXCoder: did not claim it to be :D
12:39 AM XXCoder: he does make amazing ones
01:32 AM CaptHindsight[m]: jesseg: it would keep a preload on the balls vs a hard wall from a cage
01:35 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://patents.google.com/patent/US3142182
01:38 AM CaptHindsight[m]: jesseg: I'll wait for pics
01:39 AM jesseg: CaptainHindsight, Thanks!!!
01:39 AM jesseg: The springs are not preloaded or not much at all. I'll get pics when I'm at my shop and come back with those :D
01:39 AM CaptHindsight[m]: jesseg: how much space between each ball?
01:40 AM CaptHindsight[m]: the spring will dampen reactions between each ball
01:40 AM jesseg: yeah
01:40 AM CaptHindsight[m]: that patent mentions lubrication films
01:41 AM CaptHindsight[m]: back then gyroscopes were the GPS
01:43 AM CaptHindsight[m]: every little bit of extra stability made the difference between a missile landing on target from many K's of miles vs just nearby
01:43 AM randy: morning
01:44 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.mcico.com/resources/flight-instruments/how-directional-gyros-work
01:45 AM CaptHindsight[m]: They can spin at up to 24,000 rpm
01:45 AM jesseg: Ahhh, so it's the high speed bearings, i.e. spin-axis
01:46 AM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe, lets ee pics
01:47 AM jesseg: Does the patent mention springs between the balls?
01:47 AM unterhaus: some company that makes little gyros came to talk to us about analyzing their bearings but we never heard back
01:47 AM unterhaus: another day wasted
01:48 AM jesseg: I'm sort of questioning the spring-caged bearings turning at 20krpm because the springs would be thrust out hard scraping against the outer race, no doubt scratching it and wearing themselves.
01:49 AM jesseg: Morning randy !
01:51 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/0043-1648(63)90191-1
01:52 AM CaptHindsight[m]: jesseg: if the springs are long enough
01:53 AM jesseg: CaptainHindsight, I'll bring pics. Thanks so much for the research! Bedtime for me.
01:54 AM CaptHindsight[m]: heh 60 year old papers
01:54 AM CaptHindsight[m]: neat stuff back then
01:54 AM CaptHindsight[m]: analog mechanical solution's for all sorts of things
01:55 AM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: does that happen often
01:55 AM CaptHindsight[m]: why can't they analyze their own bearings?
03:03 AM XXCoder: LOL https://twitter.com/stefangtwr/status/1552048216677531649/photo/1
03:34 AM randy: "tentacle hairnet" :)
03:35 AM XXCoder: should tie up the tentacle. osha wouldnt like that
04:32 AM Tom_L: morning
04:43 AM chris_99: good morning. As a book for an intro to machining, do you folks think 'Machining Fundamentals' would be ok? It sounds interesting, but pretty expensive (£120).
04:47 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:07 AM CloudEvil: Does it include critical modern topics like appropriate tiktok filters?
06:12 AM CloudEvil: More seriously, there is a 1989 version for 40 quid.
06:13 AM CloudEvil: Actually, down to 10 quid
06:13 AM CloudEvil: What aspects of machining.
06:21 AM chris_99: heh. cheers, just looking at the earlier edition used copies, will grab one of them
06:21 AM t4nk_fn: I heard that the diamond-laced version costs only $3499
06:28 AM CloudEvil: Though why did you pick that book?
06:30 AM chris_99: i'm open to other suggestions, that was one that seemed to have pretty good reviews
06:55 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:55 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:41 AM perry_j1987: morning
09:12 AM unterhaus: CaptHindsight[m]most people can't measure runout of a bearing very well. We had a bearing analyzer that would measure runout and torque. It was based on a motorized air bearing.
09:12 AM unterhaus: lab is gone now though
09:20 AM skunkwor1s: https://youtu.be/cx12SkQkGgI?t=3411
09:29 AM skunkwor1s is now known as skunkworks
09:45 AM unterhaus: I wonder what's wrong that his machine stutters
09:47 AM unterhaus: he mentions ethernet having problems with stuttering, but doesn't say if he's talking about mesa hardware
09:49 AM perry_j1987: think he's talking about some etherstepper on his gantry machine
10:13 AM unterhausen: he did mention it in the same sentence as usb
10:14 AM unterhausen: I don't think I can agree with crocs in a shop though, they get chips in the soles
10:18 AM perry_j1987: i use to have a pair of bright orange crocks somene gave me
10:18 AM perry_j1987: years ago they were very comfortable
10:19 AM perry_j1987: called them my safety crocks lol
10:19 AM perry_j1987: on account of the orange color
10:20 AM roycroft: i wear birkenstocks in the shop sometimes, when i'm doing woodworking and not moving anything heavy
10:21 AM perry_j1987: ok i need to finally order some ccmt inserts
10:21 AM perry_j1987: been putting it off all week
10:21 AM roycroft: when i'm making metal chips i always wear at least some decent shoes, and i'll wear steel-toed boots whenever i am handling/moving heavy stuff
10:26 AM roycroft: https://www.etsy.com/listing/724103725/plain-large-keepsake-box
10:26 AM roycroft: is this the kind of crap that people like these days?
10:26 AM roycroft: that box is absolutely hideous
10:28 AM perry_j1987: omg ty so much for finding this roycroft im going to buy 5 of them!
10:28 AM roycroft: honestly, i think that cnc lasers have done to woodworking what laser printers did to typography
10:29 AM roycroft: brought the ability to bring mediocre results to the masses, and lowered the bar for quality by an order of magnitude
10:30 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That still looks better than most of the stuff at Ikea and that is the bar that most people have for quality.
10:31 AM roycroft: it's absolutely fugly
10:32 AM roycroft: if they hadn't gone for the dark stain around the edges it might be semi-ok
10:32 AM roycroft: i guess there's no accounting for taste any more
10:33 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: No arguments about that here 🙂 But if I wanted a storage box I would keep one of the crates from a machine...
10:34 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I think they hit the corners with a torch to blend the laser cut edges.
10:34 AM roycroft: a friend sent me that link
10:34 AM roycroft: and now i'm looking at all the other ugly boxes on etsy
10:34 AM roycroft: and how much money they get for the ugliness
10:35 AM roycroft: i think that if i wanted to get into the ugly box business i could make a pretty nice living
10:35 AM unterhausen: curious if they sell any
10:35 AM roycroft: they do, it seems
10:35 AM roycroft: etsy lists their sales figures, roughly
10:35 AM roycroft: that link i posted has over 100 sales
10:35 AM unterhausen: Halloween lanterns seem to sell well, and they are junk
10:36 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I'm the nail gun nail holes in the top of the box.
10:36 AM roycroft: and you know, ugly as it is, for $75 it might not be that bad a deal
10:36 AM roycroft: but the seller is getting $200 for those things!
10:36 AM unterhausen: it's solid
10:36 AM unterhausen: there are probably people on there selling mitered versions
10:36 AM unterhausen: I don't like the starburst
10:37 AM roycroft: i can't tell from the pictures whether those finger joints are really laser cut or they're cut on a tablesaw and stained to look like they're laser cut
10:37 AM unterhausen: you should see the mitered boxes they sell at the local "arts fest"
10:37 AM unterhausen: more money than that, takes a few minutes to make
10:37 AM roycroft: i've seen a lot of those
10:38 AM roycroft: and there's nothing wrong with a mitered box that's made well
10:38 AM roycroft: the problem is that the craft fair (i won't dignify them by using the word "art") ones are not made well
10:38 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: WTF, It looks like they nail gunned the corners together too.
10:38 AM roycroft: they're slapped together
10:38 AM unterhausen: I'm prejudice against them because they block off the road to my work
10:39 AM unterhausen: our art's fest is juried and there is actually art there
10:39 AM unterhausen: also, there is craft fair junk
10:39 AM roycroft: all the food and craft booths at the country fair are juried
10:39 AM unterhausen: by snobs? we have certified snobs on our jury
10:39 AM roycroft: and while there are a lot of things sold there that i don't like, none of them are shite like that box
10:40 AM roycroft: we're hippies, not snobs
10:40 AM unterhausen: see, that's your problem
10:40 AM roycroft: but hippies with taste
10:40 AM unterhausen: well, you might be sneaking into snob territory with that
10:41 AM roycroft: but i'm glad we all seem to agree that those lasery-stainy boxes are fugly
10:41 AM unterhausen: can you really do that with lasers?
10:41 AM roycroft: i don't know
10:41 AM roycroft: but it sure looks like the joint edges are burned
10:41 AM unterhausen: only lasered stuff I have seen has been no more than 1/4" thick
10:42 AM roycroft: i don't know why someone would create that affect on purpose
10:42 AM roycroft: i'm assuming it's a laser artifact
10:42 AM * JT-Shop fixes to ride to Bufordville MO on the BlueWing
10:43 AM JT-Shop: Burfordville even
10:43 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Just depends on your laser cutter. The typical hobbyist 50W ones can't do more than 1/4" reliably. If you get into 100-150W, then thicker materials are quite do-able.
10:43 AM roycroft: and the wood sure looks like plywood with thin edge banding
10:44 AM roycroft: maybe that's why the joints are disguised like that
10:44 AM unterhausen: I think the top is 6mm ply and the sides are solid
10:44 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The top is but the sides look to be dimensional lumber. No edge banding along the top.
10:44 AM unterhausen: they went to a lot of work to make that knot in the front if it's veneered
10:44 AM roycroft: the top and bottom are very clearly rotary-sliced veneer, so plywood for sure
10:45 AM roycroft: the sides appear to be solid wood, yes, when i look closer
10:45 AM unterhausen: and also the groove in the top was cut by a laser
10:45 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The uncovered nail holes really offend me for some reason.
10:45 AM unterhausen: shouldn't they have a picture of a deer engraved in the top?
10:45 AM roycroft: i was looking for an excuse for them for the finish on the joinery
10:46 AM roycroft: disguising plywood would be more acceptable to me than just intentionally making it as ugly as possible
10:46 AM unterhausen: yeah, the nails bothered me too. I think they did the sunburst just to disguise the top
10:46 AM roycroft: those make it look rustic, zincboy
10:47 AM unterhausen: should have used cut nails then
10:47 AM roycroft: they can be wormholes, if you stretch your imagination
10:47 AM perry_j1987: what do you guys think of kennametal inserts
10:47 AM unterhausen: I think kennametal could make their catalogs make sense, but the inserts are good
10:47 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: @perry_j1987, I like them? What are you trying to do with them?
10:48 AM roycroft: i got my lumber rack installed the other day, and the wood is semi-organized now
10:48 AM perry_j1987: got a cheap lefthand index tool holder that came with some random ccmt insert in it
10:48 AM perry_j1987: doing some 4037 steel 1mm depth of cut
10:48 AM roycroft: when i did that i was looking at what i have, and determined that a lot of it is too nice to burn or toss, but too small for most things
10:48 AM perry_j1987: whatever insert was in it chineseium insert did very well
10:48 AM roycroft: yet ideal for boxes, so i'm thinking i should start making and selling boxes with my cutoffs
10:49 AM unterhausen: I found the app notes are very helpful. Problem is hobby quality lathes are an edge case for insert manufacturers
10:49 AM roycroft: i mentioned this to a friend, and then got that link in email
10:49 AM perry_j1987: but im interested in some "good" carbide to see the difference
10:49 AM roycroft: i haven't used carbide tooling much on my 12x36, but it seems my lathe is even on the small side for carbide
10:50 AM unterhausen: this old tony recommended a vendor that knows about inserts for wimpier lathes, forget the details
10:50 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: @perry_j1987, it really depends on your machine. On a hobby class machine you won't see much difference as you can't hit the chiploads needed to get the chip breakers to work.
10:50 AM roycroft: this
10:50 AM unterhausen: typical insert is made for huge doc
10:50 AM roycroft: with carbide inserts you want to make abom-size chips
10:50 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The inserts intended for finishing can work okay as a rougher in a home lathe.
10:51 AM roycroft: and you just can't do that on a small machine
10:51 AM unterhausen: I was going to say finishing inserts
10:51 AM unterhausen: my lathe is borderline for the more typical inserts
10:51 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I use VNMG inserts in my small lathe and they are about in the sweet spot when I max out the machine.
10:52 AM roycroft: i have a nice tooling grinder in the lean-to shed next to my shop
10:52 AM unterhausen: I know people that have hss inserts
10:52 AM roycroft: it only takes a few seconds to step out there and touch up a tool
10:52 AM perry_j1987: https://i.ibb.co/HzqXfj2/IMG-9321.jpg
10:52 AM roycroft: i decided to keep doing that with hss tooling
10:52 AM roycroft: but sometimes it would be nice to have carbide insert tooling
10:53 AM roycroft: primarily for thread cutting, in my case
10:53 AM unterhausen: I never learned how to grind tools and I would rather spend time shopping for inserts
10:53 AM roycroft: and that may be an area where it works decently on a 12x36
10:53 AM unterhausen: I admire people who are good at it though
10:53 AM perry_j1987: here's the chips it was giving
10:54 AM roycroft: this is where formal training helps
10:54 AM roycroft: learning how to grind tooling by watching youtube videos doesn't work that well, i think
10:54 AM unterhausen: sometimes I like to get my lathe moving and cut 3mm doc just to make myself feel alive
10:55 AM roycroft: but having an instructor demonstrate and look over your shoulder while you're learning works well
10:55 AM perry_j1987: lol
10:55 AM unterhausen: 6mm doesn't usually work out
10:56 AM roycroft: i still have to do some repair work on my lathe - i've been putting that off for months because of other projects, but i need to get it done before the rainy season begins
10:56 AM unterhausen: I have to repair my lathe too, so I can cut threads
10:56 AM unterhausen: I have some seals to put in so it holds lube
10:57 AM roycroft: the pin that connects the back gear to the drivetrain is worn, and slips out of place frequently, stopping the spindle
10:57 AM unterhausen: I just don't want to make it so it doesn't work and then get discouraged
10:57 AM roycroft: i have the parts, but i have to dismantle much of the headstock to do the repair
10:58 AM roycroft: when i finish the cabinet i've been working on for the last couple months, i'll be able to do a good tidy of the shop and set up to dismantle the lathe
11:03 AM perry_j1987: hmm i can get a 6 pack of sandvik inserts for 34 bucks
11:03 AM perry_j1987: i hear those are top notch inserts?
11:04 AM skunkworks: unterhausen: I think he is using https://edingcnc.com/
11:07 AM Rab: <roycroft> i think that if i wanted to get into the ugly box business i could make a pretty nice living
11:08 AM Rab: roycroft, somehow I have a hard time imagining you wanting to serve this market: https://relicwood.com/
11:08 AM Rab: Wonder how they do the artwork.
11:10 AM Rab: https://relicwood.com/product/custom-memory-gift-box/
11:11 AM Rab: Crissaundra's really in a bind, she can't stand to look at this thing but she also can't get rid of it in case her sister asks.
11:11 AM roycroft: that looks like that etsy seller
11:12 AM roycroft: and calling that giraffe box fugly is an insult to the word fugly
11:12 AM roycroft: :)
11:13 AM roycroft: but yeah, that's the kind of gift you hide somewhere, and make a note that when the gifter comes for the holidays you have to dig it out and display it
11:14 AM roycroft: and if the gifter lives nearby you might consider moving
11:14 AM Rab: roycroft, it's the same seller's independant website.
11:14 AM roycroft: i'd have a hard time getting up in the morning and going out to the shop if that's what i was making
11:14 AM Rab: Pallet signs! Pallet signs?
11:14 AM Rab: https://relicwood.com/product/custom-cremation-urn/
11:15 AM Rab: This website just keeps on giving
11:15 AM unterhausen: if you just need a box and no tray insert, the cremation urns are a bargain
11:16 AM roycroft: dad doesn't even get edge banding on the lid of his urn
11:16 AM unterhausen: I always wanted to shoot mom's cremains into the sun. I think she would have liked that
11:16 AM Rab: **Handguns are obviously not included.
11:18 AM unterhausen: Jonny depp actually made a movie about the psychic weight imposed by cremains. Chocolat
11:21 AM Rab: Relic Wood shop tour: https://vimeo.com/316850326
11:23 AM Rab: The joints do not appear to be laser cut, although they do have laser engraving capability. Looks like the burnt finish is airbrushed.
11:27 AM CloudEvil: https://relicwood.com/relic-wood/ has a tour video.
11:27 AM CloudEvil: It looks to me that they produce wood boxes that you will forever be able to look at and think 'that is a wood box'.
11:28 AM unterhausen: that is a good price for a production box
11:28 AM roycroft: so 80/20 never acknowledged my report about getting scratched up extrusions due to their being just tossed loosely in the box
11:29 AM unterhausen: I assume they have a machine that will do box joints in one cut
11:29 AM roycroft: i made it clear to them that i wasn't expecting any kind of compensation for the damage, but i wanted assurance that it won't happen in the future
11:30 AM roycroft: unterhausen: it's almost certainly a table saw with a finger joint jig
11:30 AM Rab: I was beginning to suspect that they were just getting boxes from an east Asian OEM and finishing themselves. Glad to see it's in house.
11:30 AM unterhausen: too slow, they are a (semi-) production shop
11:30 AM roycroft: i don't think someone who makes product that ugly would spend five figures on a gang saw that would cut them all at once
11:31 AM unterhausen: I'm sticking with misumi then
11:32 AM unterhausen: relicwood is in north carolina, there is a good chance they got a finger jointing machine used
11:32 AM roycroft: anyway, i'm over that
11:32 AM roycroft: i wish my friend had never sent me the link
11:32 AM * roycroft moves on
11:32 AM unterhausen: I agree you should make boxes with your scraps though
11:32 AM unterhausen: just nice looking ones
11:33 AM roycroft: or i could use them to make river charcuterie boards!
11:33 AM unterhausen: I think the charcuterie board/cutting board craze is over
11:33 AM roycroft: maybe embed some bullet casings in the resin
11:33 AM unterhausen: now you're getting somewhere
11:33 AM roycroft: and laser burn an american flag in the corner
11:34 AM unterhausen: eagle too
11:34 AM roycroft: yeah
11:34 AM unterhausen: "these colors don't run" because they are laser etched
11:36 AM unterhausen: I want one of the "ibox" things for my tablesaw but I'm too cheap
11:36 AM roycroft: i don't need one - i have an incra jig
11:36 AM roycroft: this is my second one
11:37 AM roycroft: and i do like the incra jig a lot
11:37 AM roycroft: especially since i have a python app that lets me make custom templates
11:38 AM roycroft: one of the things i dislike the most about box joint and dovetailed boxes is the discontinuity where the lid is cut off the box
11:47 AM roycroft: but with my python app i can add the width of the kerf to the appropriate finger, so when i cut the lid off the spacing of the joints remains consistent
11:47 AM roycroft: a good tablesaw finger joint jig would be nice - it would be faster than using the router, and tooling is much less expensive
12:05 PM unterhausen: I wonder if you can cut a wider joint with the ibox
12:07 PM unterhausen: but to be realistic, I either do hand cut dovetails, dowels, or 1/4 1/4 1/4
12:11 PM roycroft: i have a leigh d4 dovetail jig that i use when doing production dovetails, and that lets me space the tails any way i want
12:12 PM roycroft: that works a lot better for me than using the incra jig
12:12 PM roycroft: but for one-off stuff it's faster to cut them by hand than to fiddle with a jig
12:12 PM Tom_L: must be a woodworker's union meeting today
12:12 PM roycroft: i have not used my domino machine to make boxes yet
12:13 PM roycroft: the chickenmeister is on a bike ride today
12:13 PM roycroft: so we're talking wood insted of eggs
12:13 PM roycroft: at least it's not politics :)
12:13 PM Tom_L: make him a wooden egg and send it to him
12:13 PM Tom_L: i'll give you that...
12:14 PM roycroft: and i have segued to machining topics
12:14 PM roycroft: but folks like to talk about wood, i gues
01:03 PM perry_j1987: man i hate these gloves
01:03 PM perry_j1987: tear so easily
01:06 PM perry_j1987: blue powder free nitrile gloves
01:06 PM perry_j1987: i thought nitrile was suppose to be pretty tuff stuff
01:08 PM Rab: perry_j1987, I've seen nitrile gloves degrade when they get old, and/or are exposed to certain types of chemicals. No visible indication, they just tear really easily.
01:09 PM perry_j1987: ah these are couple years old
01:09 PM perry_j1987: i generally hate wearing gloves
01:09 PM perry_j1987: so they sat but im doing production run right now and it was destroying my hands heh
01:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes they break down just sitting around
01:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: perry_j1987: look for the thicker ones
01:16 PM perry_j1987: ya next box i'll do that
01:16 PM perry_j1987: they are just about out so next time im at the store
01:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.harborfreight.com/safety/gloves/disposable-gloves/9-mil-nitrile-powder-free-gloves-large-50-pc-68511.html
01:17 PM unterhausen: the nitrile gloves I bought in 2009 are still fine. We had some otherwise nice ones at work that degraded in a couple of years
01:17 PM unterhausen: Cap'n, is that a recommendation?
01:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i found some gloves coated with nitrile only on the palms that were as stiff as aboard after 4-5 years
01:18 PM perry_j1987: are those thin enough to feel what your doing though?
01:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: perry_j1987: they are for me, some solvents get to them, depending on what I'm working with I can sometimes even rewear them a few times
01:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they fill up with sweat though
01:21 PM perry_j1987: ya i just mainly am keeping from having to spend so much time cleaning my hands after work heh
01:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.harborfreight.com/safety/gloves/nylon-knit-gloves-with-nitrile-palms-large-66374.html home depot has a 5-10 pack version of these
01:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.homedepot.com/p/FIRM-GRIP-Nitrile-Dip-Gloves-10-Pack-32042-160/311633919 I use similar for mechanical work
01:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and the black 9-mils for lots of chems
01:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but of course when doing any machining you just have to deal with dirty hands
01:26 PM perry_j1987: so far this has been working nice and cut way down on the clean up time
01:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: when building a clean machine and machining parts to fit i end up washing pasts and hands sometimes several times and hour
01:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pasts/parts
01:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if I am waiting for a phone call all i have to do is put on gloves and start working with chems, about 5-10 minutes in the call will come :)
01:32 PM perry_j1987: lol
01:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Android needs a elbow activated answer call feature
01:41 PM perry_j1987: is there some sort of "hey google" answer phone thing?
01:41 PM perry_j1987: i dunno i dont use android at all
01:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah that would be their solution, let us listen to you 24/7 so that you can just answer by voice command
01:50 PM perry_j1987: lol yup
01:53 PM * roycroft doesn't talk to machines
01:54 PM perry_j1987: it would sure be fun to have one of those tormach robot arms :P
01:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Kuka
01:55 PM perry_j1987: even when they misbehave roycroft ?
01:55 PM perry_j1987: is it pretty straightforward to conver kuka to linuxcnc?
01:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wish they would have chosen just about any other robot manufacturer
01:56 PM perry_j1987: kuka is making the tormach one?
01:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: aren't they using kuka's controller?
01:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what i heard
01:57 PM perry_j1987: no clue
01:57 PM perry_j1987: all i know is some sort of python programing interface for it
01:57 PM perry_j1987: and new pathpilot screen for them
01:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pretty sure that is all for the front end
01:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC/Pathpilot talks to the Kuka controller
01:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i don't think that they have Mesa cards controlling their servos
02:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29TUqvUR1CI
02:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I can call and ask them but it might irritate them
02:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: with every robot vendor a few questions in "why do you want to control the robot directly?"
02:04 PM pcw-home: I think they are using EtherCAT
02:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "because I need to synchronize motion down to the few microns for things like inkjet"
02:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "oh we can't give you access to the encoders directly, you have to wait for 1mS updates from the controller for position info"
02:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "but the encoders are my clocks"
02:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "sorry it's proprietary (and the world would end if we let this info out - writers embellishment)"
02:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: The underlying trajectory planning and motion control is handled by ROS,
02:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so LCNC talks to ROS
02:25 PM mrec: https://snipboard.io/RrDbLp.jpg my solid toolpost is coming :-)
02:27 PM mrec: it's already installed on the crossslide, that shitty compound I won't miss it and this is especially for 1-2cm diameter parts with multiple tools
02:28 PM mrec: 9$ for that 6kg steel block I'm curious how it will perform on it
02:39 PM pere: anyone know french here? interested in looking at <URL: https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/linuxcnc/linuxcnc-docs/fr/ >?
03:28 PM perry_j1987: well ive made more on this lathe in the last two days than i have it listed to sell for haha
03:30 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:30 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:38 PM Tom_L: sounds like you better keep it
04:00 PM XXCoder: nice! https://hackaday.com/2022/08/18/angled-drill-guide-helps-you-with-those-tricky-holes/
04:02 PM XXCoder: printable files not shared lol
04:02 PM XXCoder: design looks simple enough though
04:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://pine64.com/product/quartz64-model-b-4gb-single-board-computer/ $60 in stock as a replacement for the rpi4
04:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: RK3588 boards will be out soon that are 2-3x the power but also 2x the price
04:49 PM XXCoder: how compitable is it?
04:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: the same Linux as the rpi4 should run on it
04:51 PM XXCoder: hmm interesting. good to see competition since rpi4 is so pricy (not thier fault but still)
04:51 PM roycroft: gear people: i'm using the solidworks gear toolbox, and it wants me to enter the "pitch height"
04:51 PM roycroft: this is for a rack gear
04:52 PM roycroft: and i do not see the term "pitch height" used anywhere when it comes to gears
04:52 PM XXCoder: roy did you see that HaD link? pretty cool, though not sharing 3d model fules is lol
04:52 PM roycroft: i did not
04:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://ameridroid.com/products/rock5-model-b $140 and up but more features, power and RAM
04:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: https://ameridroid.com/collections/single-board-computer/architecture_arm+ram_4gb see what is in stock that meets 4GB + ARM
04:54 PM XXCoder: not in market for one for now
04:54 PM XXCoder: having no income means I have extremely tight budget
04:55 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Gear-Rack.png
04:55 PM roycroft: those are the specs of the gear i'm drawing
04:55 PM XXCoder: nic
04:56 PM roycroft: does anyone know how to translate that to "pitch height"?
04:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: https://ameridroid.com/collections/single-board-computer/products/rock64-rev3?variant=16149663449122 less powerful option but in stock
04:56 PM XXCoder: roycroft: isnt that just tooth to tooth
04:57 PM roycroft: that is the module
04:57 PM roycroft: times pi
04:57 PM roycroft: so a module of 1 is ~3.1416mm from tooth to tooth
04:57 PM roycroft: it could be hp in that spec
04:58 PM XXCoder: you can always 3d print samples to see if you got design correct
04:58 PM roycroft: which i suppose is the rack equivalent of pitch diameter
04:59 PM roycroft: my intent is to draw the parts before purchasing
04:59 PM roycroft: so that i can make sure they will work on the machine i'm designing
04:59 PM XXCoder: yeh draw and print small thickness samples :)
05:00 PM XXCoder: nothing like having cross section sample to test if it properly works
05:00 PM roycroft: but how would i know that the samples would match the parts that i purchase?
05:00 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Isn't pitch height the same as pitch diameter? So for a rack, the pitch height would be 1.0 for the module 1 rack?
05:00 PM roycroft: it defaults to 40 in the solidworks gear tool
05:00 PM roycroft: so i'm thinking probably not
05:01 PM roycroft: i've looked at several resources that have glossaries of gear terms, and none of them mention pitch height
05:01 PM roycroft: yet that is what solidworks wants
05:01 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That would be because it is only applicable to racks and not gears.
05:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: It would still be the mesh point of the tooth.
05:03 PM roycroft: so in the diagram i posted, the mesh point of the teeth is 14mm above the bottom of the rack
05:03 PM roycroft: i.e. the "hp" parameter
05:03 PM roycroft: i suppose i can just try that and measure the drawing
05:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes. That would be how I read it.
05:04 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The pitch diameter of your gear should be tangent to that line.
05:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://qtcgears.com/tools/info/infopinions.php
05:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.pic-designcatalog.com/gears/gear-racks/
05:11 PM roycroft: when i draw it that way, with the "pitch height" being 14mm, the height of the rack from the base to the bottom of the teeth is 12.75mm, so i think that is correct
05:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.mcmaster.com/info/images/d03b-mountingdistance2-gi-digitals.png more confusion
05:11 PM roguish[m]: watch the dedendum and addendum
05:12 PM roycroft: so that pic page shows what i entered into solidworks as the pitch height as the "pitch distance"
05:12 PM roycroft: yet in the specs below it refers to "pitch height"
05:13 PM roycroft: but i like what mcmaster say
05:13 PM roycroft: thanks
05:14 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The name doesn't really matter. The distance from the bottom of the rack to the mesh line is 14mm for the rack in your document. The pitch diameter is tangent to that. All of @CaptHindsight's links say the same thing.
05:14 PM roycroft: yes, the name does not matter
05:14 PM roycroft: what matters is that it is drawn to the correct specifications
05:14 PM roycroft: i was just having trouble figuring out what solidworks wanted
05:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if it does in the future I vote for "McPitchface"
05:15 PM roycroft: i thought that was what it wanted, but when i could not find a definition for "pitch height" i thought i'd ask
05:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or better "RestingPitchFace"
05:16 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ah, fair enough. I can get the confusion when the software doesn't define the term 🙂 Been there.
05:16 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: are you going to cut a rack gear? or just designing one into your system?
05:16 PM roycroft: pitchy mcpitchface would be the term
05:16 PM roycroft: i am designing some into my system
05:16 PM roycroft: and i want fairly accurate drawings so that i can design the clearances and mounts, etc. correctly
05:17 PM roycroft: so i don't recall if i asked this earlier or not, but if i did i've forgotten what folks have told me
05:17 PM roguish[m]: that's cool. i've used rack and pinion systems, and would never, ever even think about making them myself....
05:17 PM roycroft: i'm going to mount the racks teeth down on my y axis rails, towards the bottom
05:18 PM roycroft: the linear guide rails will mounted above the racks
05:18 PM roguish[m]: down is good. won't collect sawdust
05:18 PM roycroft: both on the outsides of the y axis rails
05:18 PM roycroft: the pinion gear, attached to the gantry, will engage from below
05:19 PM roycroft: i want to use a spring tensioner to hold the pinion gear in place
05:19 PM roycroft: would it be better to install a spring below that pushes the gear up into the rack, or mount it above and have it pull the gear up into the rack?
05:20 PM roycroft: i'll have enough clearance to do it either way
05:20 PM roycroft: i want the spring loading both to reduce backlash and to allow for a bit of resiliance in case a chip finds its way down onto the rack
05:21 PM XXCoder: wonder if there can be brush system to keep rack reasonable clean
05:22 PM XXCoder: and set so teeth on rack is downwards and gear under it
05:22 PM XXCoder: so top is smooth and easily brushable maybe
05:22 PM roguish[m]: I used a plate as a spring for the pinion. change dimensions and it changes stiffness.
05:23 PM roguish[m]: motor - flex coupling - shaft - bearing and pinion
05:24 PM roguish[m]: plate between the motor mount and the bearing
05:24 PM roguish[m]: worked good.
05:25 PM roycroft: there should not be much of a chance of stuff getting on the rack, but i want to design it to handle a little movement anyway
05:26 PM roycroft: i am not going to do a direct drive from the motor
05:26 PM roycroft: it will be connected to the pinion gear via a timing gear and belt, with probably a 2:1 gear ratio
05:27 PM roguish[m]: KISS keep it simple stup...
05:28 PM roycroft: ideally i'd do a worm drive configuration so i can mount the motor 90 degrees from the pinion gear
05:28 PM roycroft: that would conserve space
05:29 PM roycroft: i've considered just buying this:
05:29 PM roycroft: https://www.avidcnc.com/pro-rack-and-pinion-drive-nema-23-p-227.html
05:29 PM roycroft: and i would not have to bother building that part myself
05:29 PM XXCoder: worm drive pinion? didnt know that existed. interesting
05:30 PM roycroft: i don't know if they do
05:30 PM roycroft: i'm saying that there would be an advantage to having that kind of setup
05:30 PM roycroft: not that i plan on doing it, or that anyone has done it
05:30 PM XXCoder: ok
05:30 PM roycroft: i mean, it would not be hard to make
05:31 PM roycroft: the rack and pinion side would not be the worm drive
05:31 PM roycroft: the motor to pinion would be
05:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $169.75 not bad
05:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: use two and be lash free
05:42 PM Tom_L: called pitch height because it has no diamter
05:42 PM Tom_L: take a gear and roll it out flat.. same thing
05:43 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Gear_info/
05:43 PM Tom_L: may or may not apply
05:44 PM roycroft: well i already need two because my y axis is two joints
05:44 PM Tom_L: one from 1937 so may be too old for you
05:44 PM roycroft: hey
05:44 PM roycroft: *i* am old
05:44 PM roycroft: not that old
05:44 PM Tom_L: not that old
05:45 PM roycroft: but i watch films, read books, and listen to music that is older than that
05:45 PM XXCoder: not get off my yard old yet?
05:45 PM Tom_L: one finger typing is slow when you got a burger in the other
05:45 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, he's way past that
05:45 PM roycroft: that finger shaking is only for the sons of maga who like to torment me
05:46 PM roycroft: and they have not been around lately
05:46 PM Tom_L: i think the pitch height may be an imaginary line between the root and major diameter where the teeth make first contact
05:46 PM roycroft: yes
05:47 PM roycroft: it would be 1/2 the pitch diameter on a gear with less than an infinite radius
05:47 PM Tom_L: depends if it's 14 or 20 deg
05:48 PM Tom_L: pressure angle
05:49 PM roycroft: the pitch circle shifts if the pressure angle changes?
05:49 PM Tom_L: on your png the pitch height would be either the 1.0 or 1.5 number
05:50 PM Tom_L: they're calling it from the base of the rack to be 14 or 15
05:51 PM Tom_L: no.. hp would be 14
05:51 PM roycroft: yes hp is what i plugged into solidworks for the "pitch height"
05:51 PM Tom_L: he is the major diameter equivalent i would say
05:52 PM roycroft: and the measured distance from the base to the dedendm is 12.75mm
05:52 PM roycroft: i'm assuming an addendum of 1mm and a dedendum of 1.25mm, to add some clearance
05:53 PM roycroft: whatever the case, i think i drew my rack accurately enough
05:53 PM Tom_L: for visual effect i'm sure you did
05:53 PM roycroft: since i'm planning on a spring-loaded pinion gear, i'll be designing some adjustability into the machine
05:54 PM roycroft: this is not primaril for visual effect
05:54 PM roycroft: i need to be sure the parts will mate proper, and that i'm locating them properly
05:54 PM Tom_L: they don't offer a cad model?
05:54 PM Tom_L: wtf...
05:54 PM roycroft: if it were just for visual effect i'd just draw a rectangular bar
05:54 PM roycroft: they offer what i posted on my website
05:54 PM Tom_L: even my chinaco rails had cad models
05:55 PM roycroft: well i think i have a decent model now
05:56 PM Tom_L: 20 deg pressure angle
05:56 PM roycroft: their spec sheet has enough information to draw the model
05:56 PM roycroft: yes
05:56 PM Tom_L: just noticed
05:56 PM Tom_L: i'm sure it does
05:56 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/152777886138
05:56 PM roycroft: that's what i'm looking at getting
05:57 PM roycroft: perhaps not from that seller
05:57 PM roycroft: but it's a fairly generic, ubiquitous rack and pinion gear system
05:58 PM Tom_L: helical rack would be quieter
05:58 PM roycroft: that particular rack and pinion come from canada
05:58 PM roycroft: it might be faster to order from china
05:58 PM Tom_L: i'll forgive you for that
05:58 PM roycroft: :)
05:59 PM roycroft: i'd rather order from canada any day
05:59 PM roycroft: but i also delight in any opportunity to take a jab at canada post
05:59 PM Tom_L: it's quite a bit better than in the past
06:00 PM roycroft: it's still faster to drive across the border, ship to another border town, and have the recipient drive across the border to pick itup
06:01 PM XXCoder: roy I used to ship bunch of lego sets and parts into canada. for less price than they pay for local shipping.
06:01 PM roycroft: i'm told that a helical rack and pinion will not only be quieter, it will tend to have less backlash
06:01 PM roycroft: but also that it's more fiddly to set up
06:01 PM roycroft: i have not decided yet if i want to go that route or not
06:02 PM XXCoder: used to run small hobby lego selling biz lol for years
06:02 PM roycroft: but if i do, the solidworks toolkit does not have helical rack and pinion gears, so unless i get a cad model elsewhere, or draw it myself from scratch, i'll probably stick to a straight gear in my drawings
06:03 PM roycroft: i don't ship to or from canada much these days - i used to do so all the time
06:03 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, ti legos http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/threading/prints/Ti_print3.jpg
06:03 PM roycroft: and i have read and been told my multiple sources that canada post are actually getting better
06:03 PM XXCoder: tom thats awesome. alum or ti sls?
06:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://grabcad.com/library/rack-and-pinion-assembly-2
06:04 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/threading/prints/Ti_print1.jpg
06:04 PM Tom_L: all those are Ti
06:04 PM XXCoder: might be, roy. I last shipped stuff more than 10 years ago
06:04 PM XXCoder: nice!
06:04 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm/152777886138
06:04 PM XXCoder: I always wanted ti sls machine. but investment so expensive
06:04 PM roycroft: the helical version is actually cheaper from that same seller
06:04 PM perry_j1987: https://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-us/products/pages/productdetails.aspx?c=CCMT%2006%2002%2004-UM%20%20%20%204425 got myself box of these enroute to try
06:05 PM Tom_L: roycroft, you'd have to control endplay more
06:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.traceparts.com/en/product/yuan-yi-chang-yycmachinery-co-ltd-helical-milled-racks-chtmq8?CatalogPath=TRACEPARTS%3ATP01005002009&Product=50-24052018-106139
06:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Sandvik Coromant is nice stuff
06:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: i think he mentioned a spring for preload
06:07 PM roycroft: yes
06:07 PM Tom_L: i meant if went with a helical rack opposed to straight
06:07 PM roycroft: and keep in mind that i'm building a router, and expect tolerance of 0.005" or so
06:07 PM roycroft: it's not going to be a precision machine
06:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.machinedesign.com/motors-drives/article/21833478/separating-rack-and-pinion-myths-from-reality
06:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.linearmotiontips.com/gallery-rack-and-pinion-systems-designs-and-applications/2/
06:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: to prevent (or reduce) backlash is preload, which can be achieved with either of two designs: a split-pinion or a dual-pinion
06:11 PM roycroft: in that myths article, everything they said makes sense, and i already did not believe any of the myths
06:11 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i've even heard all of those myths
06:12 PM roycroft: and i briefly considered a split pinion or dual pinion system, but quickly decided i did not want to incure the cost nor complexity
06:12 PM roycroft: i don't need zero backlas
06:12 PM roycroft: i need minimal backlash
06:12 PM roycroft: and i do have a budget
06:13 PM roycroft: and prices are going up every day, so i had best get the damn thing designed and buy all the parts soon, or i won't be able to keep to my budget without making some unacceptable compromises
06:17 PM Tom_L: i went to get an i product and it is 2x what it was the last time i looked and no longer available from the source
06:18 PM roycroft: the supply side issues are still crazy
06:19 PM roycroft: i went to the printer the other day to inquire about the timeline for getting envelopes and ballots printed for our board election in october
06:19 PM roycroft: we usually order that stuff the first week of september, so we will be ready to mail ballots in late september
06:19 PM roycroft: i was informed that both enevelopes and card stock are very hard to get these days
06:19 PM roycroft: and had to order them all right then, with still no assurance that they will be ready in tiem
06:20 PM roycroft: why would there be a shortage of those kinds of paper products?
06:21 PM CloudEvil: roycroft: non-newtonian pinion lubricant to take up backlash. Crunchy peanut butter.
06:21 PM roycroft: it seems that even though covid is going away, or at least fading to being roughly on par with the seasonal flu, the covid effect on the supply chain will be with us for a very long time
06:22 PM roycroft: naw
06:22 PM roycroft: that's too old school
06:22 PM roycroft: this is the 21st century
06:22 PM roycroft: i'll use almond butter instead
06:22 PM XXCoder: nutella eh
06:22 PM roycroft: crunch almond butter
06:23 PM roycroft: crunchy
06:23 PM roycroft: no, it will have to come from pasture-raised organic almonds
06:23 PM roycroft: free-roam almonds, although they have a tendency not to roam even when allowed to do so
06:24 PM roycroft: unless there's an earthquake
06:24 PM roycroft: in which case they might roam a few meters
07:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how they are harvested also makes the difference, fruits and nuts that have naturally fallen to the ground vs murdered and placed in baskets
07:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXIdcA6mlV4
09:32 PM roycroft: does it matter if the murder weapons used on the fruits are bananas vs pointed sticks?
09:32 PM XXCoder: banana is tasty murder
09:33 PM roycroft: well, using a banana would be fruit on fruit
09:33 PM roycroft: which may be more fair than stick on fruit