#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 17 2022

12:09 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8VAZsYlt2Q
12:19 AM XXCoder: he wouldnt like minstry of weird walks
01:57 AM randy: morning
03:41 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
04:17 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
04:34 AM Tom_L: morning
05:02 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:02 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:02 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:24 AM Deejay: hi
08:49 AM perry_j1987: morning
09:17 AM Guest43: hi
09:27 AM perry_j1987: hows it goin
09:28 AM roycroft: it's hump day, so yay
09:32 AM perry_j1987: im fixin to head over to the shop and get going on these parts
10:16 AM roguish[m]: topped out at 103.7 yesterday. a little lower today, forecast for mid 90's
10:16 AM MikeM[m]: Greetings. Quick question. I saw LinuxCNC 2.8.3 was released, and it made mention of an auto-update. I have ran LinuxCNC multiple times, and never got prompted to update. Is there something special I need to do? I did a manual build/install of LinuxCNC vs. using an ISO if that matters.
10:21 AM roguish[m]: I do use the debs
10:21 AM roguish[m]: but i could be wrong. not an expert.....
10:21 AM roguish[m]: MikeM: i believe if you built it yourself, you would have to update the git pull and build again. I recommend you use the .deb's in the buildbot with the corresponding repositories, and then do regular updates.
10:21 AM roguish[m]: MikeM: if it works now, you don't need to be in a hurry.................it's all good
10:21 AM MikeM[m]: It does work well, and will get it when I can.
10:21 AM MikeM[m]: Okay, that is what I was wondering. Will update when I get some time after I finish this kitchen remodel. Thanks!
10:33 AM perry_j1987: i kinda want to add a physical button for cycle start and stop on this lathe now
10:34 AM perry_j1987: such a tiny play button on the screen to always click on every 24 seconds lol
10:36 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The cycle-start and feed-hold buttons get the most use out of any of the ones on my control panel. Definitely worth adding.
10:37 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: On the original membrane control panel that I replaced, both of those buttons were worn out 🙂
10:37 AM perry_j1987: oh i also was wondering
10:37 AM perry_j1987: is there a way to run a program x amount of times with a pause inbetween
10:37 AM perry_j1987: ie if i want to do 50 parts in a series and just click a button that says yep i swapped parts
10:38 AM perry_j1987: then i can let the machine do more of the counting for me
10:38 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You could do it with an O word while loop and a G4 pause.
10:38 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The optional stop is what you would want for the "start next part"
10:39 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: M1
10:39 AM perry_j1987: does it show on the interface a count or countdown anywhere with this?
10:44 AM perry_j1987: ah R key on axis starts cycle
10:44 AM perry_j1987: thats much easier than the mouse haha
10:44 AM perry_j1987: but scary having hotkey in the regular keyboard area for this...
10:45 AM perry_j1987: should be like scroll lock or something off in the distance of normal keyboard buttons you'd press
11:14 AM perry_j1987: quiet in here this morning
11:28 AM Birdman3131[m]1: Are there any decent cheap options for inputs outside of a second BOB? Not needing instant inputs. (Home switches and probe are going on the BOB for where instant matters.)
11:36 AM jpa-: Birdman3131[m]1: you can program an arduino or similar with USB HID firmware and use hal_input module
11:36 AM Birdman3131[m]1: I have a few esp8266 chips and arduinos so i may try that.
11:36 AM jpa-: or even steal the pcb from an old usb joystick if you are very hacky :)
11:37 AM perry_j1987: bobs are so cheap too at the same time
11:37 AM perry_j1987: but well ya may need to add second parport to your computer too then
11:37 AM Birdman3131[m]1: Bobs need a second lpt port though
11:38 AM jpa-: parallel port cards are quite cheap also, though
11:38 AM perry_j1987: i had a few dual parport pci cards laying around that i use in one of my towers
11:39 AM perry_j1987: what kind of machine Birdman3131[m]1
11:40 AM Birdman3131[m]1: I've got like 4 serial ports but only one lpt on my donor computer. (Ex cash register. Hoping the touch screen is compatible)
11:40 AM Birdman3131[m]1: Trying to stick to stuff on hand as bills are getting tight.
11:40 AM Birdman3131[m]1: Dm2800
11:40 AM perry_j1987: lots of touchscreen support in linux in my experience
11:41 AM Birdman3131[m]1: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/30-cnc-machines/46518-dynamite-2800-retrofit
11:41 AM Birdman3131[m]1: Or are you asking what kinda computer?
11:41 AM perry_j1987: what do you need to run for a 3 axis mill that you couldnt do with a single bob?
11:42 AM Birdman3131[m]1: I can get it up and going with a single bob but id like more than 5 inputs.
11:43 AM perry_j1987: your home switches can all be bonded to single input
11:43 AM perry_j1987: to free some up
11:43 AM perry_j1987: i have tool height setter and touch plate and such on single bob on my mill
11:45 AM perry_j1987: i dont have an encoder though
11:50 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not by default. You can create a VCP component to do that though.
11:50 AM Birdman3131[m]1: Eventually I want a Mesa card but that's money that goes to bills right now.
11:51 AM perry_j1987: ZincBoy[CAON][m] you do? stepconf let me choose the axis on single input i dont remember doing anything fancy
11:51 AM perry_j1987: Birdman3131[m]1 i have a 7i96 in this lathe im running here
11:51 AM perry_j1987: its nice
11:52 AM perry_j1987: i had to get it for this high resolution encoder that the thing had
11:52 AM perry_j1987: its a techno isel lathe that i converted to linuxcnc
11:52 AM Birdman3131[m]1: Other than being small it feels like this little DM 2800 is going to be a nice machine.
11:53 AM Birdman3131[m]1: But I'm having trouble trying to get it home it's currently sitting off at a building at work but I think I'm going to have to take it apart to get it where I need it to go.
11:53 AM perry_j1987: how much did you pick it up for if i might ask
11:53 AM Birdman3131[m]1: 500 plus 150 fuel
11:54 AM perry_j1987: very nice
11:54 AM perry_j1987: where at?
11:54 AM Birdman3131[m]1: https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?acctID=2706&itemID=917&fa=Main.Item
11:55 AM Birdman3131[m]1: And my day job is electronics tech for a machine shop so I know quite a bit about that side of things.
11:55 AM perry_j1987: page is loading im on wifi hotspot out here at this shop super slow heh
11:56 AM perry_j1987: ah nice
11:56 AM Birdman3131[m]1: So far the only thing I found actually wrong with the thing is a stepper drive. I've got a stepper online one sitting on my desk waiting to go in it once I get it home
11:57 AM Birdman3131[m]1: I am modeling wondering if there would be any reason to want the spindle to go backwards as currently it seems to only go forwards.
11:57 AM perry_j1987: going to do rigid tapping?
11:57 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: If you want to do tapping, reversing the spindle is pretty important
11:58 AM perry_j1987: i always wondered what models were thinking about when they were on the runway... now we know
11:58 AM perry_j1987: haha
11:59 AM jpa-: if it doesn't yet have a VFD, it is a reasonable upgrade and gives reverse easily
11:59 AM Birdman3131[m]1: Well i almost corrected that but recalled that I'm not supposed to do that here with the matrix and irc bridges.
12:01 PM Birdman3131[m]1: Well it's a brushless dc motor. I'm not positive but from what I recall looking into them on e-bikes if I swap both the hall sensor and power leads in a specific way i may be able to reverse it.
12:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The controller might already have a direction input. Most of them do. It just might be hardwired in the current control.
12:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I replaced the BLDC drive in my Novakon NM-145 with one of the Mesa 8i20 drive cards. Worked way better and actually had usable torque below 1000rpm.
12:04 PM * Birdman3131[m]1 uploaded an image: (2676KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/wbJNhSXqbLaGbhuOgvlYkCRK/IMG_20220810_140701.jpg >
12:04 PM jpa-: oh, pretty nice to have such on spindle
12:04 PM jpa-: even has an encoder already?
12:05 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Nice, you should be able to do closed loop spindle control.
12:05 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I would be very surprised if that will not do reverse with the right voltage on the control input.
12:05 PM Birdman3131[m]1: And i have 3 belt settings. 1600 max on low and 10k max on high
12:06 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Very nice! The 10k speed is really nice on a small machine like that as you get the best MRR with small cutters pushed hard.
12:11 PM Birdman3131[m]1: The servo company is still around too. Just need to contact them as i can't find the manual
12:12 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Looks like a nice drive so hopefully you can get some info on it.
12:12 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Way better than the open loop one that was in my mill.
12:13 PM Birdman3131[m]1: It was a $25k machine in the early 90's. As somebody elsewhere put it. "Oh cute. A 1/4 scale CNC"
12:14 PM Birdman3131[m]1: Id keep the original control but it's not gcode.
12:22 PM perry_j1987: i dont see any other's for sale
12:22 PM perry_j1987: just peeked once it finally loaded
12:24 PM jpa-: https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=104&acctid=8554 is an interesting looking cheap machine also
12:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like one of those wood frame routers
12:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.purplewave.com/auction/151006/item/K6277/Machine_Tools-Machine_Shop_Tools_and_Equip.-Iowa
12:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.k-bid.com/auction/15715/item/2
12:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.purplewave.com/auction/160913/item/BX9158/Machine_Tools-Machine_Shop_Tools_and_Equip.-Nebraska
12:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: look like an aluminum gantry from these pics
12:33 PM Birdman3131[m]1: Be warned that usually the people listing on govdeals are not the people who know what it is. So you gotta get creative on your searches. Is it a cnc? Mill? Milling? Metal Scrap?
12:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i stopper at Rockler last week and saw a few plastic frame gantry CNC routers
12:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: worth a few hundred $ if it is not worn out
12:45 PM roycroft: as rockler move more and more to their own branded products i find myself buying less and less from them
12:45 PM roycroft: it's the same with woodcraft
12:46 PM roycroft: both franchises used to carry high-quality name brand kit
12:46 PM roycroft: both have devolved into producing cheap knock-offs with their house brands
12:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=20851&acctid=1055
01:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: are there any 2x PCIe LPT port cards still available? 2 LPT ports per PCIe slot
01:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.newegg.com/startech-com-model-pex2pecp2/p/N82E16815158343
01:51 PM zincboy[m]: Beat me to it.
01:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.newegg.com/vantec-model-ugt-pce20pl-pci-express-to-parallel-port/p/N82E16815287023 lower cost
01:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-2-Port-Parallel-PCIe-UGT-PCE20PL/dp/B00EA0WKDG $26
02:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: can't find a pic clear enough to see the chips used
02:16 PM roycroft: do you really need to get that ancient okidata printer working?
02:16 PM roycroft: and where will you find ribbons for it anyway?
02:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hah "Has an Oxford chipset that is compatible with LinuxCNC"
02:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: i hate to waste Mesa cards on systems that can use LPT
02:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://composter.com.ua/documents/OXPCIe952.pdf
02:32 PM roycroft: yeah, mesa cards are not that expensive, so if you can get by with a parallel port that's probably good
02:33 PM roycroft: besids, mesa cards are still in short supply, so saving them for applications where they are really needed is good
02:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: can't be the 952 since it's a single LPT port device
02:39 PM Tom_L: use a 7i90 on the parport
02:39 PM Tom_L: 8 available
02:39 PM Tom_L: but you'd need a daughter card
02:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: what?
02:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: PCIe --> LPT card --> 7i90 + daughter card?
02:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: are you over at royscroft's and smokin somethin behind the barn? :)
02:54 PM * roycroft wishes he had a barn
02:56 PM * XXCoder also wishes that
02:57 PM * CaptHindsight[m] wishes roycroft had a barn to
02:58 PM roycroft: that's just because you want to come hang around in the back
02:58 PM roycroft: but i have to warn you
02:59 PM roycroft: if i did have one and you came over, joe biden himself would take you around the back if you started any kind of malarkey
03:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not a fan of malarkey, I lean more towards tomfoolery
03:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so you're roy no barn croft?
03:03 PM XXCoder: heyy roy is you brother of that famous lara?
03:03 PM XXCoder: the lara croft
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://mesaus.com/product/7i96s/ actually in stock!
03:15 PM JT-Shop: been in stock for a while
03:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what else is usually around?
03:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: on crap but it's the new FPGA so what is the story on re-configuring the IO's for encoders?
03:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it' only has one as shipped
03:30 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:30 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: can the GPIO inputs of the 7i96S be used as encoder inputs as is just using HAL?
03:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: with no VHDL changes
03:41 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes but only at low encoder rates as you would be decoding in software/hal
03:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh yeah, no hardware counters as is
03:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so there is my answer
03:42 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: 1ms servo rate would mean no more than ~100hz encoder rate for reliable operation.
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: which FPGA tools are required for -S version boards?
03:44 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Some of the Mesa cards have encoder input modes for the IO pins meant for jog wheels. I don't know if the 96S does
03:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 7i96S has the ONE spindle encoder input
03:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: howto get TWO more
03:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: ^^
03:48 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I don't think you will have much luck. The field IO on that card have a note that they are limited to 5kHz bandwidth.
03:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh great
03:49 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not enough for much more than a handwheel even if you reprogrammed the FPGA
03:49 PM unterhaus: is there a smart serial board that will do it?
03:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: RC filtered?
03:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bypass the RC filters
03:49 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: They are isolated so I assume the isolation method is the reason.
03:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: and are they in stock?
03:49 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: No filters to bypass.
03:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how isolated?
03:50 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You have a 25pin expansion connector on that board you could use to add another IO board with more encoder inputs.
03:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sure IF the board is in stock, hardly anything is
03:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: optos may be bypassed as well
03:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: get me to the pins
03:51 PM roycroft: we just need a few chips, and that problem will be solved
03:51 PM roycroft: has anone contacted lay's about this?
03:51 PM roycroft: anyone
03:51 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: 7i85
03:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: should be fine by 2024 or so
03:52 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: 8 in stock.
03:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 7i85S has the header for direct access as well
03:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: OK so that should work
03:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for got it has a header
03:54 PM unterhaus: can you hook the 7i85 to the 25 pin header on the 7i96 and have it do anything?
03:54 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You really don't want to hook anything direct to the FPGA. That would lead to very quick death of the FPGA in an industrial system.
03:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I am familiar
03:55 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Just making sure no one else thought that would be a great idea 🙂
03:55 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You will need a bit file that supports the configuration but it should work just fine.
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what i haven't done yet is modify VHDL or bitfiles for the new FPGA cards with the -S
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ZincBoy[CA, ON]: have you?
03:57 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not yet. I have not needed to use any of the S cards yet as I have enough of the older cards on hand.
03:57 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Looks like you need the Efinix dev tools. Not familiar with that one.
03:59 PM JT-Shop: unterhaus, yes you can connect a 7i85 or 7i85s to the 7i96s
03:59 PM unterhaus: mind blown
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if I use the same pinouts as a supported bitfile then I should be good as is
03:59 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Looks like no free version. Have to buy a dev kit to get a license.
04:00 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not bad, only $75 for a dev kit. Not sure why they don't have a free version if that is the price to buy in. Must be licensing related.
04:00 PM JT-Shop: you can also use a 7i74, 7i76, 7i77, 7i78 or 7i89 with the 7i96s
04:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/efinix-inc/XYLONI/13535080
04:01 PM * Birdman3131[m]1 uploaded an image: (2446KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/zNxsuzzOtGCbKhetbfBgTNhO/IMG_20220817_155731.jpg >
04:01 PM * Birdman3131[m]1 uploaded an image: (1949KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/rdOgLAtiXtSftjoOfqzpSMci/IMG_20220817_153648.jpg >
04:01 PM Birdman3131[m]1: Limit switch cleaning on a machine at work. (Assuming this can go here. It's cnc related but not Linuxcnc really. Just thought some of y'all might get a kick out of it.)
04:01 PM unterhaus: good think I mistakenly bought 3 of them back when I could afford them
04:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: only $75 for the dev kit
04:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Birdman3131 (@_discord_154805116942286848:jauriarts.org) mmm, tasty congealed coolant 🙂 That must have smelled great
04:02 PM XXCoder: capt affordability is always relative.
04:03 PM Birdman3131[m]1: It was under the bed too. So i got that smell all over me.
04:03 PM zincboy[m]: I am used to FPGA dev tools in the $10K+ range so $75 seem odd.
04:04 PM roycroft: tar is a pretty good corrosion inhibiter
04:05 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The thing I found works best to clean off old coolant like that is Ammonia. Just spray it on and it dissolves it right away.
04:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Birdman3131: no judgement here, whatever you do at home is your business
04:05 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I got lots of experience cleaning out my 30 year old mill with 30years of coolant residue.
04:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/evaluation-boards-embedded-complex-logic-fpga-cpld/796
04:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and actual FPGA's in stock by Efinix https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/embedded-fpgas-field-programmable-gate-array/696
04:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: I just noticed the header as well
04:13 PM unterhaus: I knew about the header, I just always thought it would be most useful to drive a parport bob, not a mesa card. This opens some possibilities.
04:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i do have some 6i25's available "for one million dollars"
04:14 PM JT-Shop2: you can use a 5abob on the header as well
04:14 PM unterhaus: I knew that
04:14 PM unterhaus: I guess the 25 pin interface is compatible with a bob
04:15 PM JT-Shop2: if you flash the right firmware
04:16 PM unterhaus: I meant the interface on something like a 5i25
04:16 PM Tom_L: there is limited firmware for the 7i96s
04:17 PM unterhaus: is there a toolchain available?
04:17 PM Tom_L: sure
04:17 PM Tom_L: you gotta buy a dev board and it comes with it
04:17 PM Tom_L: but it's out of stock everywhere
04:18 PM JT-Shop2: there might be more firmware for the 7i96s, I've not checked in a few months
04:18 PM Tom_L: oh and dk marked it way up
04:18 PM unterhaus: dk?
04:18 PM Tom_L: digikey
04:18 PM unterhaus: bastages
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: just checked a zillion in stock and only $75ea
04:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or the $100 or $150 kits
04:24 PM unterhaus: link?
04:26 PM unterhaus: which company's fpga?
04:26 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/efinix-inc/XYLONI/13535080
04:26 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: efinix. For the mesa S boards
04:27 PM unterhaus: xyloni doesn't sound confusingly like xylinx at all
04:27 PM Tom_L: they were like $0
04:27 PM Tom_L: $30
04:28 PM roycroft: so all those storage drawers i had on my garage wall have quadrupled in price since i bought them
04:28 PM roycroft: i can sell them for twice what i paid for them and they'll still be half price
04:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/evaluation-boards-embedded-complex-logic-fpga-cpld/796?s=N4IgjCBcoLQdIDGUBmBDANgZwKYBoQB7KAbRACYwBmAFhAF0BfAmcqUZSAFwCcBXfEVIgArA0YSgA
04:29 PM Tom_L: but the dollar is worth half as much now
04:29 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Semiconductor prices are up across the board.
04:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: half of $0 is still -$ 15 or something
04:30 PM roycroft: my assets appreciated 400% over 20 years
04:31 PM roycroft: inflation over that same period was 58%
04:31 PM roycroft: who knew that storage drawers would be such a good investment
04:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: imagine what you'd have now if you had invested in a barn/s
04:32 PM roycroft: yes! and i could have filled the barn with storage drawers1
04:32 PM roycroft: !
04:33 PM roycroft: the appreciation on the drawers would have more than paid for the barn
04:34 PM unterhaus: My sister used to own a barn, but it was so run down it was mostly just a burden
04:34 PM unterhaus: pre-civil war barn, if you can imagine
04:35 PM unterhaus: OTOH, back then it was worth less than a $1
04:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I do have an http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=99 7i47S
04:36 PM unterhaus: you can drive the 50 pin cards from a 25 pin interface, with some loss of functionality
04:37 PM unterhaus: since you are going to have to get a firmware built somehow, the other one might be better
04:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah, might be enough
04:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: forgot how I ended up with a 50 pin daughter card
04:38 PM unterhaus: maybe ask pcw
04:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: will try the dual LPT card first
04:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: supposedly Oxford Semi, so will get 40KHz samples
04:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: only using 1000 pulse per rev encoders
04:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: could probably do this with GRBL but then it would need a GUI
04:45 PM zincboy[m]: You need to oversample the quadrature pulses. I found 5x was the practical minimum when I designed a fpga based decoder. A glitch filter is also helpful. I would expect the same in a SW implementation
04:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we used to do this in software back in the 80's using LPT ports with DOS
04:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: by the 90's we got $80 8086 motherboards from China, and really saved some cash
04:47 PM unterhaus: I wish there was a better way to interface to grbl for special projects
04:48 PM unterhaus: the '90s were the peak of using pc's for industrial projects. Then things got weird
04:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I got a bunch of celeron mini-itx mother boards for $20ea
04:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they only have 1 PCIe slot
04:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 1 x16
04:49 PM unterhaus: yeah, I can get cheap dells for almost nothing right now, university is going to win 11
04:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: where do i order?
04:50 PM unterhaus: most recent one I bought meets win 11 requrements except the cpu, which is one generation too old
04:50 PM unterhaus: it's all in person sales. I did think about starting an ebay store, but lcnc isn't a big enough market
04:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah
04:51 PM unterhaus: I need to go in, they have some mini towers with full height slots
04:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: low volume shipping is a hassle as well
04:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what do they want for them? <$100ea
04:51 PM unterhaus: yeah, plus my wife would kill me if I bought any more pc's
04:52 PM unterhaus: last I looked, it was $20-$40 depending on age
04:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh nice
04:52 PM unterhaus: yeah. I was also interested in the very small ones
04:52 PM unterhaus: that still have expansion slots
04:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we have a dozen or so older am2 and am3 pc's here
04:53 PM roycroft: i ran across some old sparcstation 10s and 20s recently when i was crawling around my attic
04:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we did the RTAI work with them
04:53 PM roycroft: i thought i had gotten rid of all that stuff
04:53 PM * roycroft wonders if they are "collectable" yet
04:54 PM roycroft: they are worth two figures
04:54 PM roycroft: they are going for three figures on ebay currently
04:54 PM roycroft: so they are becoming "collectable"
04:56 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I just found a stack of xterms that were collecting dust in a back corner. All went to ewaste
04:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the new Rockchip boards are starting around $120
04:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they should run preempt_rt and work well with Mesa ethernet
04:58 PM unterhaus: I wish the cheap dells had better power management, I haven't been able to get rid of the real time delays
04:58 PM unterhaus: seems like cheap amd's are easier to manage
04:59 PM roycroft: i used to have some ncd xterminals
04:59 PM roycroft: those were nice machines
05:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: corporate Dells and HP's often have very limited BIOS options to keep support problems to a minimum
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i have an AMD HP system that can't be used, best numbers are like 400K
05:01 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Those were them. NCD xterms. Great machines for the day.
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ans also can't run openBSD :(
05:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256802475516334.html these should replace the Rpi4's
05:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why isn't everyone gagga about these?
05:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $60ea with 2GB DDR
05:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $64 with 4GB ddr https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256801685527943.html
05:07 PM roycroft: because it's harder to defend yourself from someone attacking you with a banana than with a raspberry
05:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Pointed Stick board with 4GB DDR will be a winner
05:09 PM roycroft: yes
05:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there is not a single situation in life that hasn't been covered by M Python
05:11 PM roycroft: just as there is not a single situation in cartoon life that hasn't been done already by the simpsons
05:13 PM t4nk_fn: they hired some pigmees to pose in front of the 7" screens :|
05:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/01/09/rock5-model-b-rk3588-single-board-computer/
05:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: prices starting at $79 through distributors
05:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh that was pre-orders
05:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: current prices
05:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $129 with 4GB RAM
05:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $149 with 8GB RAM
05:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $189 with 16GB RAM
05:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: evryone should just use these for LCNC and shut up about any other boards
05:17 PM t4nk_fn: still quite a bit cheaper than the current rpi4s
05:17 PM snaked_clancy is now known as snaked
05:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they have 3 integrated microcontrollers so they should be able to software step really fast as well
05:17 PM XXCoder: have packages ready to go and chances is better
05:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I might do so to stop hearing about the Rpi's
05:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: t4nk_fn: way more powerful than an Rpi4
05:19 PM XXCoder: unless price stays high for years, rpi will not be non-option
05:20 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: hey, got any IBM Peanuts?
05:21 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], you've tested those?
05:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: will very soon, been so busy
05:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the real work will be porting the stepgens to the mcirocontrollers
05:23 PM Tom_L: oh and when you find time, write a gui for grbl :)
05:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: kernel should be no problem
05:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sure no problem, maybe next Thursday afternoon
05:24 PM Tom_L: over your luncn break
05:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i think the u-boot source is all open
05:24 PM t4nk_fn: Tom_L, ... I made my own ;)
05:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so a good u-boot, preempt_rt kernel should be on the easy side
05:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://ameridroid.com/products/rock5-model-b
05:27 PM Tom_L: a go fund me?
05:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $144.95 USD for the 4gb model
05:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $169.95 USD for 8GB
05:28 PM Tom_L: for a preorder with no guarantee of shipment date
05:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and $219.95 USD for the 16gb
05:29 PM Tom_L: 4 or 8g should be plenty
05:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah, the pre-orders from the other seller have already stopped, they expect production versions this month
05:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they already slipped from shipment by Q2
05:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: software stuff again
05:31 PM Tom_L: software / hardware.. one is always lagging
05:31 PM Tom_L: wonder what sort of cooling they will need
05:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: chip shortage didn't hlp
05:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hip/help
05:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but these should be more than powerful enough for LCNC and have more than enough RAM
05:32 PM Tom_L: i wonder if that is like the gas shortage of the 70's
05:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: plus Mali gpu's with open libs
05:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so we might finally have it all
05:33 PM Tom_L: but i want more
05:33 PM t4nk_fn: I want it now
05:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: RT, working firmware, HD GUI
05:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and enough RAM
05:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and runs on 12V
05:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: with Rpi headers
05:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: ever cut gum/crepe rubber on a lathe?
05:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the rubber on the bottom of a desert boot
05:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/smoother-sole-less-expensive.png
05:43 PM Tom_L: sry no
06:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Rockchip+RK3588&id=4906
06:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/07/05/rock-5b-developer-edition-preview-part-1-unboxing-and-first-boot-to-debian-11/
06:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "ROCK 5B is 2.4 times faster than an overclocked Raspberry Pi 4 and can deliver about 90% of the performance of an Intel Core i7-1185GRE processor."
06:13 PM Tom_L: software to come
06:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Vantec UGT-PCE20PL 2lpt port pcie card uses Moschip MCS9865
06:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://vantecusa.com/products_detail.php?p_id=122&p_name=2-Port+Parallel+PCIe+Host+Card&pc_id=12&pc_name=Add-on+I%2FO&pt_id=4&pt_name=Add-on+Cards ~$25
06:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://www.tronicore.com/downloads/datasheets/MCS9865.pdf
06:24 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Hi, I'm trying to set up LinuxCNC on a RPi4 8Gb, and noticed that the ISO images are pretty out of date, I built my own RT Linux for the Pi, but it seems slow, so it may not have been compiled with the right settings for the kernel, and then I installed LinuxCNC, which does run, but my Latency isn't good, and the 3D graphics is worse than the one I at one time had running on it, any suggestions where I can grab an ISO to test; Thank
06:24 PM RoboticsNut1189[: You 🙂
06:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: http://linuxcnc.org/downloads/
06:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LinuxCNC 2.8.1 Raspberry Pi OS based on Debian 10 Buster
06:29 PM RoboticsNut1189[: yes, it was last updated in 2021, there were several bugs that I had to chase down with that release, and I ended up editing the source code.
06:30 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I can also have a go at compiling it from sources.
06:30 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Though I think the issue I have has more to do with the settings on RT pi kernel.
06:31 PM RoboticsNut1189[: as I have the mouse lag for the UI with that kernel, not even running LinuxCNC.
06:31 PM RoboticsNut1189[: What are you guys using for a RT kernel?
06:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: what are your latency numbers? And how are you planning on using the rpi4?
06:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: with a mesa card?
06:32 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I tried to install the RT kernel from the RPi repo's with apt-get install, but the kernel wouldn't install, found the error in the control file, but wasn't able to properly repackage the .DEB.
06:32 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Yes.
06:32 PM RoboticsNut1189[: with a 7i92M
06:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: you will only be running 1mS servo thread
06:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so latency can be pretty poor but it should be well under 100uS with proper firmware and rt kernel
06:36 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Do you think that is fast enough to run Analog +/- 10V AC servo motors?
06:37 PM RoboticsNut1189[: They have 4096 counts per Rev.
06:37 PM RoboticsNut1189[: they are rated for 6000RPM, and connect to 1" diameter .200" lead ball screws.
06:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
06:38 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I did test the servo amp, motor, and so on with the previous RPi build running LinuxCNC that I was using and performance seemed okay.
06:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: yes, since the Mesa FPGA does all the heavy lifting
06:38 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I just had issues with that ISO Linux on the Pi properly driving my monitor.
06:39 PM RoboticsNut1189[: The monitor I connect to the RPi is 2048x1536.
06:39 PM RoboticsNut1189[: essentially 2x 1024x768.
06:39 PM RoboticsNut1189[: oddly at 4k it worked okay which was higher resolution.
06:39 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I think I broke something trying to edit the config.txt and the X11 server config files.
06:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i have used my Rpi4 in about a year but, you should be able to use the ISO you downloaded then upgrade using the package manager
06:40 PM RoboticsNut1189[: The other computer I have for this is the Nvidia Jetson TX1, and Could pick up a Xavier, but I don't know how well LinuxCNC would work on nVidia's RT linux kernels.
06:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rpi has crappy firmware
06:41 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I'm not wedded to using the RPi.
06:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they won't use u-boot since broadcom is behind the chip and the world would end if they gave up any "secrets"
06:41 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I'm open to getting something better, its just what I have.
06:41 PM RoboticsNut1189[: that mess is insane!
06:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I am waiting for https://ameridroid.com/products/rock5-model-b
06:42 PM RoboticsNut1189[: They give the impression that the RPi is a open thing, when its in many ways worse than Intel systems.
06:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but if you know how to build kernels and LCNC there are several other options for ARM boards
06:42 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I have a beagle bone black, and some Intel Galilelo's.
06:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: me too, but i avoid TI and Intel
06:43 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Yeah, I saw that above and clicked on the link, that board looks awesome.
06:43 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I do know how to build kernels.
06:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah ok, then better wait
06:43 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I haven't built LinuxCNC on the Pi, but have for x86.
06:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what happened with trying to upgrade using the rpi iso?
06:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: andypugh: is there anything new for ISO for the Rpi4?
06:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he's probably gone for the night ^^
06:44 PM andypugh: No, still here.
06:44 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I haven't tried that yet, as the one build I had from some ISO, which I could swear was 2.8.2
06:45 PM andypugh: Working on the forum backlog. AIm is to get to only 6 pages unread… (I have been away a bit)
06:45 PM roycroft: i built linuxcnc on a rpi4 a while back
06:45 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I really wanted something that had a good GPU, so I was considering the Jetson/Xavier systems, but don't know of anyone who has gotten LinuxCNC working on them.
06:45 PM andypugh: At the moment the ISO is 2.8.2 for x86. I have a new RTAI deb ready to drop on the server, but I probably should test it first :-)
06:46 PM roycroft: well, iirc i cross-compiled it on a server with a decent amount of resources
06:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: your answer ^^
06:46 PM andypugh: As for Pi, my Pi images are pretty old now, and don;t work with some of the newest models. There is a 64-bit SD card image for Pi4 somewhere on the forum, I recommend that at the moment.
06:47 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I'd like a 64-bit os version!
06:47 PM RoboticsNut1189[: yes.
06:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: ah now you have all 4 co's mentioned that i avoid :) Intel, nvidia, TI and Broadcom
06:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: andypugh: ah ok I was trying to find that forum link
06:48 PM roycroft: yet you embrace bananas but do nothing more than allude to pointed sticks
06:48 PM RoboticsNut1189[: CaptHindsight, that doesn't leave much left 😦
06:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: AMD, rockchip, allwinner, amlogic, ect
06:49 PM andypugh: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/39779-rpi4-raspbian-64-bit-linuxcnc?start=130#238020
06:49 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Can you get a small embedded board that works with those, I suppose it doesn't have to be to small, but something rugged.
06:50 PM andypugh: RoboticsNut1189[: That link there, 6th link down.
06:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: that one I listed that you like the pi5 is Rockchip
06:51 PM RoboticsNut1189[: looking now, thank you 🙂
06:52 PM RoboticsNut1189[: downloading.
06:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: I posted a list here https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/46077-potential-all-in-one-single-board-computers
06:52 PM roycroft: uh oh - it looks like the chickens have dug up the internet cable and pecked it in half
06:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: fowl alert?
06:53 PM roycroft: that's a very bad eggsample of a pun
06:54 PM RoboticsNut1189[: OMG, I sure am grateful to have you guys here, it gets so lonely forging along alone on things, and I still don't have a operational CNC.
06:54 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I have to drill 340 holes, and I'm not going to drill those by hand, let alone tap them.
06:56 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Computers have turned into Nanny States!
06:56 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:56 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: standard dad joke issue
06:56 PM RoboticsNut1189[: was not able to use wget on that link, and then google warned me it could not scan it for viruses, then again they warned me, then the web browser asked if I wanted to allow downloads from google!!!
06:57 PM roycroft: wow
06:57 PM roycroft: i just got a "survey" phone call
06:57 PM roycroft: i was asked if i would vote for #45 for a third time
06:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: fire brigade?
06:58 PM roycroft: i repsonded that it would be impossible for me to do so without breaking the law, as i am only permitted one vote in the election
06:58 PM Tom_L: RoboticsNut1189[, just stack em and get a really long drill bit
06:58 PM roycroft: the survey ended right there
06:58 PM roycroft: and i was not the one to end it
07:00 PM RoboticsNut1189[: its 240 holes on a planar grid, there are no parts to stack.
07:00 PM RoboticsNut1189[: 240 1/4-20 threaded holes.
07:00 PM RoboticsNut1189[: in some mic6.
07:00 PM Tom_L: you must have done 100 already...
07:01 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I've done zero, I thought I'd get the CNC running first.
07:01 PM RoboticsNut1189[: lol.
07:01 PM Tom_L: <RoboticsNut1189[> I have to drill 340 holes
07:02 PM roycroft: my wrist is sore just thinking about 240 14"-20 threaded holes
07:02 PM roycroft: i guess i need a cnc machine
07:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: I ask if Canadians are allowed to vote in that election
07:03 PM roycroft: well my entire body would be sore thinking about 14"-20 holes
07:03 PM roycroft: but 1/4"-20 holes still make my wrist sore
07:03 PM Tom_L: RoboticsNut1189[, been there done that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6n2ZgY-5Ls&t=8s
07:04 PM roycroft: i'm sure that depends on how they would vote, capthindsight :)
07:04 PM roycroft: but we're talking about tapping too many holes now
07:05 PM roycroft: or maybe not enough holes?
07:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: what ratio do you use for peck drilling?
07:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: dia vs depth per peck
07:10 PM roycroft: if you're discussing pecking, i think jt is the better person to ask about that
07:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://zero-divide.net/?article_id=4242_programming-efficient-peck-drilling-cycle
07:10 PM Tom_L: on that one i'm not sure but at least the diameter is a safe bet
07:11 PM Tom_L: that would also depend if you did a full retract each time or not
07:11 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I was just going to use the Z axis manually with the quill, vs. installing the z-axis ball screw and peck drilling, and tapping that way.
07:11 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I figure since the holes are through, I can power tap them.
07:12 PM Tom_L: better have a helical tap
07:12 PM RoboticsNut1189[: they are 1", but I will generally chamfer them.
07:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I get bored just thinking about it
07:12 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I can order a helical tap, I only have spiral point taps, but they are sharp.
07:13 PM Tom_L: my guess was close
07:14 PM Tom_L: unfortunately the chart doesn't realize you get one peck number to set prior to drilling
07:15 PM RoboticsNut1189[: okay its imaging:
07:15 PM RoboticsNut1189[: sudo dd bs=1m if=linucnc-2.9.0pre-bullseye_arm64rt.img of=/dev/rdisk5
07:15 PM * ZincBoy[CAON][m] uploaded an image: (326KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/YtqerOvGKFxClDHKLUtJswDb/IMG_0730s.jpg >
07:15 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Fixture plate I made for my mill.
07:16 PM Tom_L: RoboticsNut1189[, imagine no more: https://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/debian-11.html
07:17 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: 188 1/2nc holes with a 0.5003+0.0002-0.0000 counterbore.
07:17 PM Tom_L: ZincBoy[CAON][m], my bud uses fixture plate tooling and has probably every other hole tapped and some reamed
07:18 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Thank you 🙂
07:18 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I do finally have a set of under and over reamers now.
07:18 PM Tom_L: ZincBoy[CAON][m], print some plastic plugs for them
07:18 PM Tom_L: i don't buy sets of anything but drills
07:18 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: @Tom_L, nice thing about this is that all of the holes have both threads and counterbores.
07:19 PM * ZincBoy[CAON][m] uploaded an image: (1268KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/GdWXgImyWhpXzjSNeepzItrS/IMG_0741.jpg >
07:19 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:19 PM * ZincBoy[CAON][m] uploaded an image: (1027KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/ucTKdYBKmPzcNFQDHAWKHqgE/IMG_0742.jpg >
07:19 PM Tom_L: hope you test fit one first :)
07:19 PM RoboticsNut1189[: did you thread mill those hole plugs?
07:19 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That is the orange one 🙂
07:19 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The plugs are just 3d printed out of PETG
07:20 PM RoboticsNut1189[: nice.
07:20 PM Tom_L: coolant resistant i assume
07:20 PM RoboticsNut1189[: They look great!
07:20 PM RoboticsNut1189[: what did you print that on?
07:20 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: They actually seal really well and coolant does not get down into the holes.
07:20 PM RoboticsNut1189[: That is pretty cool.
07:20 PM RoboticsNut1189[: someday I may have a fixture plate.
07:20 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The printer is a Vivendo Troodon
07:21 PM Tom_L: ZincBoy[CAON][m], is the top of each hole reamed?
07:21 PM XXCoder: those printed plugs is awesome
07:21 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Fixture plates are great. Save a ton of time in setup.
07:21 PM Tom_L: yup
07:21 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: @Tom_L, no they are bored. It took me for ever to get the head dialed in.
07:21 PM Tom_L: i have a small one for my small mill
07:21 PM Tom_L: heh
07:22 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I'm still trying to make a mounting plate to go from my 4th AXIS to the Lathe Chuck, since I don't have either CNC running on the mill, or a lathe of any kind.
07:23 PM Tom_L: mine is more a sacrificial plate though
07:23 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The jaws on mine are the sacrificial part.
07:24 PM * RoboticsNut1189[ uploaded an image: (6628KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/mficDqKdoYtnmNNhmlwBiNkM/A3642F13-5FAA-4B87-BA76-D568B8331BF7.jpg >
07:24 PM * RoboticsNut1189[ uploaded an image: (6535KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/qRZwycNshJadDhXqahNzKIOj/BEB7D697-025D-4386-B48A-56B7F6D2FC39.jpg >
07:24 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A8_new/A8%20profile2.jpg
07:24 PM roycroft: when i finally cnc convert my mill-drill, or get a new one and convert it, i think a good fixure plate will be one of the first things i add to it
07:24 PM roycroft: it just seems like that would make it so much easier to make parts
07:25 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Hopefully the 4th AXIS will work until I'm able to afford a lathe.
07:25 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I stole the idea for mine from Saunders Machine Works. They make some nice stuff just not quite what I wanted.
07:27 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Robotics Nut (@_discord_570343600026550287:jauriarts.org) The chuck looks like it has thru bolt holes so it should not be too hard to make an adapter plate.
07:27 PM RoboticsNut1189[: yes, I found it on ebay for that purpose, its a Buck Chuck.
07:27 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Is that a self centering 4jaw?
07:27 PM RoboticsNut1189[: its 8" though, a little big for my table, but I think it will work.
07:27 PM RoboticsNut1189[: yes.
07:27 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I got a really good deal on it, and it was new.
07:28 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Can't blame you for that 🙂
07:28 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I will just have to put a spacer under the 4th Axis so it sits a little elevated.
07:28 PM RoboticsNut1189[: for about $300 for a new Buck Chuck in the precision series with a TIR of less than .0002 I thought that was a good price.
07:29 PM Tom_L: ZincBoy[CAON][m], do you use cam bolts on those fixtures?
07:29 PM Tom_L: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/ucTKdYBKmPzcNFQDHAWKHqgE/IMG_0742.jpg
07:29 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I wanted a 3 jaw, but this was a good price.
07:29 PM RoboticsNut1189[: The image finished imaging.
07:30 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: @Tom_L, No, I use mitee-bite pitbull clamps.
07:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I need some 3-jaw 3" chucks for glass tubing
07:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if you overtighten you crack the tubes
07:31 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: CaptainHindsight (@_discord_702231000050040894:jauriarts.org) I have bought cheap chucks from my local used machinery dealer for welding positioners and other low accuracy applications.
07:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I am looking for new
07:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there must some half way decent chuck that doesn't fall apart after removing it from the shipping box
07:33 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Do you need super accuracy, or can you get away with the ebay specials? I wouldn't think you would need great TIR for that?
07:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even partially zinc castings are fine
07:33 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Wood lathe chuck?
07:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sure
07:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: +- 0.1mm should be fine
07:34 PM Tom_L: https://www.littonengr.com/Chucks.cfm?sc1=87
07:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-H8034-3-Inch-3-Jaw-1-Inch/dp/B000M63194
07:35 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Success, the image you guys linked me to off the forums booted, and the monitor came up with 2048x1536 resolution.
07:35 PM RoboticsNut1189[: woot!
07:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 🎉
07:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: https://www.littonengr.com/Products.cfm?pn=HJ11%2D211&pID=714 $43000.00 USD
07:38 PM Tom_L: be sure to get a spare
07:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: please post your latency histogram results
07:41 PM * RoboticsNut1189[ uploaded an image: (1800KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/PdnSwmHgujKqcPMvGkZAMjEz/IMG_6766.jpg >
07:41 PM RoboticsNut1189[: 3D rotation is smooth, mouse movement is smooth, unlike my low latency USB kernel.
07:42 PM RoboticsNut1189[: CaptHindsight, will do.
07:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/16508/RPi3-17Jan2021-50794.png
07:43 PM RoboticsNut1189[: where do I find that?
07:43 PM Tom_L: cmd line
07:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: in the LCNC menu
07:44 PM Tom_L: is that one the menu now?
07:44 PM Tom_L: s/one/on
07:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: by apps
07:44 PM RoboticsNut1189[: looking, thank you.
07:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Sample Configurations ---- apps ---- latency ---- latency histogram
07:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: or as user $ latency-histogram
07:47 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I do not have the mesa board connected yet.
07:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: doesn't need to be connected
07:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: latency-histogram --help for options
07:48 PM * RoboticsNut1189[ uploaded an image: (1951KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/GgfPHeEiseAJGcyZZTSheSUm/IMG_6769.jpg >
07:49 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I'm running the simulation.
07:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you can't run both at the same timer, so wait until you are done playing with the sim
07:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh that is non RT kernel
07:50 PM RoboticsNut1189[: ok
07:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh no it is
07:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: <<--- blind tonight
07:54 PM * RoboticsNut1189[ uploaded a video: (6964KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/TXvvKOhPMhRvoIEjScNqVISN/IMG_6770.mov >
07:55 PM perry_j1987: those emco compact 115 cnc look kinda cool
08:00 PM * RoboticsNut1189[ uploaded an image: (5262KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/rdSUGViSYEfMixhSbpSLifMR/36B58644-4C05-4951-8348-C14841D26986.jpg >
08:00 PM RoboticsNut1189[: its showing an unexpected realtime delay.
08:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Looks like software stepping is out of the question but you should be fine with the Mesa board and 1ms servo period.
08:02 PM RoboticsNut1189[: awesome, there is a stepper motor on my 4th axis.
08:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You need to run some stress programs to see if you have issues though.
08:02 PM Tom_L: or fiddle with the bios settings
08:03 PM RoboticsNut1189[: it is well heat sunk.
08:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Youtube is my go-to as well as glx gears.
08:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah that looks right for an rpi4
08:03 PM Tom_L: oh is that what it is?
08:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah load FF and run a youtube
08:03 PM * RoboticsNut1189[ uploaded an image: (1512KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/kIUwcgniOLPhdIYtkwFnxykG/IMG_6772.jpg >
08:03 PM * Tom_L wasn't paying attention
08:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not a heat issue. It is just to make sure that compute loads don't cause the kernel to have an excessive delay.
08:04 PM XXCoder: I usually use one of those HD video of fire
08:04 PM XXCoder: its HD, and most of screen is constantly changing
08:04 PM RoboticsNut1189[: FF?
08:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Robotics Nut#1189: change to isolcpus=3
08:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: FF = firefox
08:05 PM RoboticsNut1189[: where is that isolcpus=3? in my config.txt?
08:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no need to isolate all the other cores
08:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe i forget
08:09 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: It is a kernel parameter. Don't know how to set it on a pi
08:09 PM RoboticsNut1189[: ok.
08:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there is an rpi4 thread on the forums where tjt33 and i go through all the settings and post results
08:14 PM * ZincBoy[CAON][m] uploaded an image: (826KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/SmrCewIGKuTannfWrKAGBxNH/unknown.png >
08:14 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: This is what you want for a latency test. Leave it running for at least an hour.
08:14 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Or do what @CaptHindsight says and save yourself a bunch of time 🙂
08:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah the rpi4's are similar, but andy found some new ones with differences
08:20 PM RoboticsNut1189[: I think the isolcpus=3 is in the /boot/config.txt file where it would get set.
08:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: edit /boot/cmdline.txt
08:31 PM RoboticsNut1189[: Thank you 🙂
08:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what the 9 year old docs say :/
08:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/configuration.html
08:39 PM satiowadahc[m]: fwiw on my latest build I had massive issues with the pi thermal throttling itself but not advertising it was thermal throttling.
08:39 PM satiowadahc[m]: Adding the dinky little 3v3 fan cooled it by 10degrees C... And I switched to a rela computer
08:40 PM satiowadahc[m]: real*
08:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes Rpi firmware sucks
08:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it overrides what you set and they don't give you the real rules or priorities
08:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so be sure to just use a nice big heatsink and or fan
08:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "we are going to give you these firmware options"
08:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "but we are going to ignore them when we want"
08:44 PM satiowadahc[m]: don't trust the end user (:
08:46 PM XXCoder: is rpi os new windows?
08:46 PM roycroft: more to the point
08:46 PM roycroft: the first rule of system administration is:
08:46 PM roycroft: never overestimate the intelligence of the end user
08:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Broadcom - Shut Up and Just buy Something
08:48 PM satiowadahc[m]: Something about the universe creates idiots faster than we can keep up?
08:49 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I think they are also preventing the user from setting the HCF (halt, catch fire) bit. The problem is that they don't tell you what is going on.
08:50 PM * satiowadahc[m] uploaded an image: (22KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/cNUOJJGNtTfpoNyhEbeaJwXR/unknown.png >
08:50 PM satiowadahc[m]: huh.. perfectly square box... in estop... glad I tried this on a sim machine
08:50 PM Tom_L: RoboticsNut1189[, in the rpi config file
08:54 PM Tom_L: mmm can't find my config for it
09:02 PM RoboticsNut1189[: thank you Tom_L
09:31 PM roycroft: it's not hip to be square, anyway
09:35 PM satiowadahc[m]: didn't realize motion could move in estop
09:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: satiowadahc: then it's really not an e-stop
09:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe it's an almost sim
09:36 PM satiowadahc[m]: I guess the homepage's warning is there for a reason
11:43 PM jesseg: Hey guys, I inherited an old friend's collection of small used ball bearings upon his passing. He rebuilt vintage aircraft gyroscopes so they are mostly from that sort of thing. But some of them, instead of having a cage made of metal or plastic, simply have a small coil spring between each ball and the next. Ever seen something like that, and what's the point?
11:44 PM jesseg: No picture, but can get one another day (I'm not at my shop atm, but the bearings are.)
11:44 PM XXCoder: i wonder if thats the older version]
11:45 PM XXCoder: tried to google it. cant find anyrhing like it
11:46 PM XXCoder: found this though lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDsVZD6Q5Wc
11:53 PM jesseg: lol
11:53 PM Thorhian[m]: I finally fixed my first compute shader. What a ride for such a simple bug. Just to count types of pixels. https://github.com/Thorhian/Path_Tinkering/blob/initial-path-generation/shaders/count_colors.glsl
11:54 PM jesseg: LOL... what has hot peppers got to do with Damascus steel?
11:55 PM XXCoder: never figured that
11:55 PM XXCoder: adding carbon? maybe?
11:55 PM XXCoder: he does add em to many of packages like nails etc
11:56 PM XXCoder: maybe peppers being carbon source is a joke "cooking it" but still needs some carbon
11:56 PM XXCoder: thats my guess anyway lol
11:57 PM thorhian[m]1: Shurap is awesome. Glad he is okay.
11:58 PM XXCoder: talking about youtubers in risk, engineering brin recently released a video. its a status update. glad hes still ok