Aug 12 2022
12:13 AM roycroft: aah, the last box is printing
12:22 AM roycroft: it won't be finished by the time i go to bed, but it will be finished well before i wake up in the morning
12:22 AM XXCoder: awesome
12:22 AM roycroft: i have to go out to the fair this weekend and pack up our booth, but i should still have time to remove the wall cabinets, paint the wall, and install the lumber racks
12:22 AM XXCoder: I wish I had chance to do a quick visit
12:22 AM XXCoder: but timing just wasnt there
12:22 AM roycroft: we'll have more fairs
02:46 AM roscogamer[m]: I'd say that's fucked
02:46 AM roscogamer[m]: Rip windmill
02:46 AM XXCoder: ?
02:46 AM roscogamer[m]: Oh theres a picture of a windmill on fire here
02:47 AM XXCoder: oh I missed that picture
02:47 AM XXCoder: I was still torturing myself then
02:47 AM * roscogamer[m] uploaded an image: (173KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/DLOKQyEtbVYlJiiWxVRLOLJs/windturbine.jpg >
02:47 AM roscogamer[m]: I resend it
02:47 AM roscogamer[m]: Pretty sure you can see it then
02:48 AM XXCoder: already saw it yeah. I switched to discord for fast picture searching
02:48 AM roscogamer[m]: Pretty sure that ain't gonna make power anymore
02:49 AM XXCoder: ralking about windmills
02:50 AM XXCoder: I recently read about new material that will make windmill blades infinitly recyclable
02:50 AM XXCoder: pretty dang cool
02:55 AM jpa-: only if it gets cheap enough
02:56 AM jpa-: even as it, they could be made out of carbon-carbon composite, it is just way too expensive
02:56 AM XXCoder: add fee for handling unrecyclable blades and suddenly its worth it
02:56 AM jpa-: or suddenly windmills are no longer worth it
02:57 AM XXCoder: if I recall right, they worked price to be barely more money anyway
02:57 AM jpa-: yeah, that would be cool :)
02:57 AM jpa-: the current alternatives to fiberglass + resin are way more expensive
03:06 AM randy: morning
03:11 AM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: have a link to the mystery material
03:12 AM XXCoder: no, ut was long enough ago lemme see if can find it
03:13 AM XXCoder: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-wind-turbine-blades-could-be-recycled-instead-of-landfilled/
03:14 AM XXCoder: "The new NREL blade uses most of these components, but bonds them together with a thermoplastic resin that can harden and set the blade’s shape at room temperature. It can also be reclaimed at the end of its life by heating it into a liquid resin that can then be reused to make new blades."
03:14 AM XXCoder: key point.
03:15 AM XXCoder: this is also interesting. new process to exrract fiberglass https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/articles/carbon-rivers-makes-wind-turbine-blade-recycling-and-upcycling-reality-support
03:15 AM CaptHindsight[m]: er eh lets see, where do i start
03:16 AM CaptHindsight[m]: epoxy is a thermoset like resin, once it hardens it can't be reflowed, it can be ground up into filler though
03:17 AM XXCoder: first link does NOT ise epoxy
03:17 AM CaptHindsight[m]: IF they use a thermoplastic then yes, they can reheat the blade and reflow it
03:17 AM XXCoder: second link im not too sure how they process to extract most of fiberglass from epoxy
03:18 AM CaptHindsight[m]: you can recycle thermoplastics by remelting and blending with new thermoplastic
03:19 AM XXCoder: from what I read that specific one theyre using can liquidify
03:19 AM XXCoder: rather than turn into soft plastic
03:19 AM XXCoder: which mean they can simply filter out stuff then just let it cool in mold and solidify
03:20 AM CaptHindsight[m]: same thing
03:20 AM CaptHindsight[m]: "Carbon Rivers’ recycling uses pyrolysis—a process during which organic components of a composite (e.g., resins or polymers) are broken down with intense heat in the absence of oxygen and separated from the inorganic fiberglass reinforcement."
03:20 AM XXCoder: second one interesting
03:20 AM CaptHindsight[m]: so they burn it, the epoxy burns out and they are left with glass
03:20 AM XXCoder: wonder how they burn it without oxygen
03:21 AM CaptHindsight[m]: epoxy is a hydrocarbon, so it burns
03:21 AM XXCoder: ok
03:22 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.ars.usda.gov/northeast-area/wyndmoor-pa/eastern-regional-research-center/docs/biomass-pyrolysis-research-1/what-is-pyrolysis/
03:25 AM XXCoder: bit hard to follow but cool
03:25 AM XXCoder: so its a interesting process to reclaim fiberglass. some loss but 100% isnt possible
03:25 AM XXCoder: great since we got a lot spinning away now
03:26 AM XXCoder: even if we start using that termoplastic ones right away, it'll be 30 years for rated life
03:26 AM CaptHindsight[m]: there more fiberglass in the worlds boats than there is in windmill blades
03:26 AM XXCoder: indeed. and same process makes em more recycleable I would think
03:27 AM rmu: i very much doubt you can extract the plastic out of glass fiber composite
03:27 AM XXCoder: rmu: plastic isnt part thats recycled in that process]
03:27 AM XXCoder: fiberglass is
03:27 AM CaptHindsight[m]: capitalism vs the environment
03:28 AM CaptHindsight[m]: using aluminum vs fiberglass
03:28 AM rmu: let me say it this way: i very much doubt you can (easily) separate the plastic from the fiberglass
03:29 AM XXCoder: dont know either. above process (second link) seem to be indeed the process to remove fiberglass from epoxy
03:29 AM XXCoder: considerable tougher than plastic
03:29 AM rmu: pyrolysis? that means more or less burning it
03:29 AM CaptHindsight[m]: yes
03:30 AM CaptHindsight[m]: fire hot, plastic burns, glass no burns since fire not hot enough
03:31 AM rmu: but the glass fibers will probably melt and trap all sort of icky half-burnt plastics in the melt
03:32 AM XXCoder: from what I remember, fiberglass has MUCH higher melt temp than plastic
03:32 AM XXCoder: 2700f. ill say so I guess
03:32 AM rmu: maybe it is possible to make windmill blades from veneer
03:33 AM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: yes
03:35 AM CaptHindsight[m]: spider silk
03:36 AM rmu: glass can fuse at much lower temperatures
03:36 AM CaptHindsight[m]: if they are using fiberglass and epoxy, their cost is a few $/Kg
03:37 AM CaptHindsight[m]: if they could make the blades out of dog crap they would
03:38 AM CaptHindsight[m]: they probably have the cheap source of epoxy well tweaked by now
03:38 AM rmu: i guess FR4-type prepreg is now around 15$/kg in 1t quantity
03:39 AM rmu: epoxy type stuff is scarce the last year or so
03:40 AM CaptHindsight[m]: the cheap epoxy components haven't changed much in price
03:40 AM CaptHindsight[m]: the additive have gone up, some have doubled
03:42 AM CaptHindsight[m]: they are all hydrocarbons, so if the sources of hydrocarbons go up so do the component prices
03:42 AM CaptHindsight[m]: crude oil, soy oil etc etc
03:47 AM djsftree[m]: Hi!
04:02 AM djsftree[m]: some really good progress with robot sim
04:31 AM Tom_L: morning
04:40 AM JT-Cave: morning
07:40 AM JT-Shop: some chap keeps doing pull requests on mesact title screen resolution 1024x768 then closes them
09:06 AM perry_j1987: morning
09:28 AM roycroft: my printer is enjoying a well-deserved rest, after cranking out hundreds of boxes
09:28 AM JT-Shop: my printer is in pieces...
09:28 AM roycroft: so it is also resting
09:29 AM JT-Shop: however the Kubota is in operational condition again
09:29 AM roycroft: i still have hundreds of boxes to print
09:29 AM roycroft: but no deadline on those
09:29 AM JT-Shop: hmm the dual z upgrade won't get here until tomorrow
09:32 AM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: hey. where do I put a feature request in? github >> Issues ?
09:32 AM JT-Shop: yup
09:35 AM * JT-Shop is going to ride 162 miles tomorrow for an ice cream waffle cone covered in chocolate
09:35 AM * JT-Shop wonders why CnC Machines is on google maps now
09:35 AM roguish[m]: Ride? on a pedal bike, or ebike
09:36 AM JT-Shop: bluewing
09:36 AM roguish[m]: too easy, but a good idea
09:36 AM JT-Shop: be hard to take my wife on the e-bike or pedal bike
09:37 AM JT-Shop: also hard to keep up with friends on the harley trike
09:37 AM JT-Shop: now the map says Mesa US
09:37 AM roguish[m]: finally got one of my digital drives to work correctly. ferror is below .0001
09:37 AM roguish[m]: now have to copy setup to next axis.
09:38 AM JT-Shop: " or mm
09:38 AM roguish[m]: wow, you're on the map. one of those wealthy businesses. the tax man will find you.....
09:39 AM roguish[m]: oh, inches.
09:39 AM JT-Shop: I just removed the link from g maps
09:39 AM roycroft: i need to go to the fair site tomorrow and pack up our booth for the year
09:39 AM JT-Shop: call coming in on +990 543...
09:40 AM JT-Shop: +90 543...
09:40 AM roycroft: FAKE CALL
09:40 AM JT-Shop: I never answer a call unless they are on my contacts
09:42 AM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: same here.
09:49 AM roycroft: i kind of have to pick up random calls, but if i don't recognize the number i'm prepared to hang up very quickly
09:49 AM roycroft: i would not pick up a random call purporting to be from turkey, though
09:50 AM * roycroft does wonder why he continues to get "upgrade your flash player" spam when flash was retired over 2 years ago, and forceably removed from his computers back then
09:52 AM roycroft: it's another case of where the insult to my intelligence is more annoying than the scam itself
09:54 AM roycroft: it will be interesting to see if 80/20 respond to my email about their packing issue
10:26 AM JT-Cave: seems uninstall leaves some files...
10:27 AM roycroft: maybe you have to do a purge as well
10:28 AM roycroft: which you can do even after you remove a package
10:28 AM roycroft: apt remove leaves config files
10:28 AM roycroft: apt purge deletes the config files
10:28 AM roycroft: i'm not sure if that'e relevant, because i don't know the context of the install/uninstall stuff
10:29 AM JT-Cave: I might try apt autoremove
10:29 AM JT-Cave: time to head out and fix an air compressor
10:30 AM roycroft: i'm not sure apt autoremove will get rid of the config files
10:30 AM roycroft: but apt purge should, if the package is structured properly
11:34 AM unterhausen: spouse invited her family for my birthday. I'm going to stay at a friend's house
11:53 AM Tom_L: good call
11:54 AM Tom_L: when is the big event?
11:55 AM roycroft: i think the standard protocol for such events is to "go fishing"
11:56 AM c101horse[m]: well, i might have send out a quote on a new (well, it was used as a demo machine once or twice) wabeco f1210
01:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: did Fedex break your 80/20?
01:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2022/08/11/how-thinking-hard-makes-the-brain-tired who knew?
01:42 PM travis_farmer: Just finished setting the last 3 cement pads for my CNC shed... my back is killing me... :-( at least now, i just have to set some posts at level to support the platform floor, and it will be all simple framing after that. :-)
01:53 PM roycroft: it's lunch time
01:54 PM roycroft: time to empty the last fastener box, and get ready to remove the wall cabinets :)
01:54 PM travis_farmer: i already ate 3 hours ago, when it was my lunch time ;)
01:55 PM * CaptHindsight[m] didn't even have breakfast yet
01:57 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: was surprised to see lathe chucks at Rockler
02:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and the gantries of the Next Wave Shark CNC routers made of HDPE or similar
02:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.rockler.com/power-tools/wood-turning/lathe-chucks
02:21 PM JT-MachineShop: mainboard is here now to figure out how to flash the firmware on it
02:26 PM XXCoder: wow https://hackaday.com/2022/08/12/young-inventor-builds-motor-without-rare-earths/
02:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-MachineShop: a newer new motherboard than the 550?
02:26 PM XXCoder: gets rid of rare earths AND torque increase
02:26 PM JT-MachineShop: Mainboard V4.2.7 for Ender 3
02:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: synchronous reluctance motor
02:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: well known
02:28 PM XXCoder: seems to be improvement over known designs too
02:28 PM XXCoder: thats why he won 75k
02:28 PM roycroft: the wall behind the old fastener cabinets is a real mess
02:28 PM roycroft: after 20+ years i had forgotten how beat up it is
02:28 PM XXCoder: roy ah thats why yiu hid it years ago ;)
02:28 PM roycroft: probably :)
02:29 PM roycroft: that's ok though - i need to do some other stuff at the fair, and the other things can't be done until next weekend, so i'm postponing this weekend's work until then
02:29 PM roycroft: that gives me more time to make the wall look nice
02:29 PM roycroft: so that i can cover it up with a lumber rack
02:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: ah nope, clickbait article
02:32 PM XXCoder: linked article https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/this-17-year-old-designed-a-motor-that-could-potentially-transform-the-electric-car-industry-180980550/
02:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: things are taken out of context, but yeah he is working on things
02:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I wonder if his school librarian told him to stay out of the grown up section and stick to schoolwork
02:34 PM XXCoder: I think thats awesome that theres youths interested and working hard on solving problems
02:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe it will encourage some others
02:35 PM roycroft: not needing rare earth magnets would be great
02:35 PM roycroft: we mine a small amount of rare earth elements here in the us
02:35 PM roycroft: but the overwhelming majority of them are mined in china
02:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why can't they write an article without embellishing the facts
02:35 PM roycroft: and we need to stop getting stuff from china
02:35 PM roycroft: period
02:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh yeah facst, sorry i asked
02:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: also get less stuff
02:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: who really needs all this stuff?
02:36 PM roycroft: we all do
02:36 PM roycroft: we need stuff to store our stuff
02:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: a "Stop With the Stuff!" movement
02:36 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:37 PM roycroft: and when our houses fill up with our stuff, we need to buy a vaction house so we can take some of our stuff there
02:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: shed sales are up
02:39 PM roycroft: but what we really need right now are battery factories, not motor factories
02:39 PM roycroft: to claim the full $7500 ev tax credit the batteries have to be made in usa
02:39 PM roycroft: and we don't make enough batteries here to supply all our evs
02:40 PM roycroft: so we need to start with that
02:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: thorium reactor powered cars
02:40 PM roycroft: mr fusion is just around the corner
02:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but we can't have those because terroists
02:41 PM roycroft: maybe when mr fusion is perfected there will be a legitimate reason to buy taco bell burritos
02:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and we can't get rid of terrorists since we "need" wealth and power inequality
02:42 PM roycroft: but back to the article
02:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so maybe once start throwing people who deserve it into volcanoes things will change
02:43 PM roycroft: even if we did not have this relatinship with china that is becoming more and more tenuous, there's just not enough rare earth minerals to convert the global vehicle fleet to evs using conventional motors
02:43 PM roycroft: even if china mined it as fast as they could and gave it to us for free, there would still be a shortage
02:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we don't need this many vehicles
02:44 PM roycroft: and cnn now have a copy of the search warrant
02:44 PM roycroft: and faux news has a copy of the inventory
02:44 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: There are lots of rare earth minerals. They are just really messy to extract. China is the only place that is willing to eat the environmental impact of extracting them right now.
02:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but we choose not to cooperate with each other
02:44 PM roycroft: what we don't need is this many people
02:44 PM roycroft: excessive breeding is the root of the problem
02:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: same reason
02:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even with less breeding there is just too much stuff that people get that they don't need
02:46 PM roycroft: hmm, my nas just crashed
02:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: are people better off in China now with more cars vs bicycles?
02:46 PM roycroft: if there were only 17 people that would not matter so much
02:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 16 people and one hoarder
02:47 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The one thing that has been shown to reduce birth rates and population growth is raising the standard of living.
02:47 PM XXCoder: no wonder policies seem to have cruelity as point
02:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ZincBoy[CA, ON]: but you can't do that since we need wealth and power inequality
02:47 PM XXCoder: they want to "increase national baby supply"
02:48 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Well, some people need to see others suffer to feel good about themselves. Send those people off on the B ark 🙂
02:48 PM XXCoder: hah gonna love that reference
02:49 PM XXCoder: in least we dont have public phones that could spread plagues anympre?
02:49 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The one bright side!
02:49 PM roycroft: it appears to have spontaneously rebooted
02:50 PM roycroft: except we've raised the standard of living here in the usa
02:50 PM roycroft: yet the bible thumpers still engage in excessive breeding
02:51 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Most of the US is at or below 3rd world standards. Driving through it is shocking.
02:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: a side effect of entertainment
02:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ZincBoy[CA, ON]: uhmericans don't notice
02:51 PM roycroft: and the white supremecists, who think the answer to racial dilution is to outbreed people of color
02:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: since they don't travel, they can't compare
02:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and they don't study history either
02:53 PM * roycroft thinks we're going down the wrong path too far today
02:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we never got our video pay phones like in Blade Runner :(
02:54 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yup. Traveling the world really puts things into perspective. The other problem is american exceptionalism. If you know you live in the best country in the world, how could things be better?
02:54 PM XXCoder: zinc you know of "not invented here" fallacy?
02:55 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Anyway, back to linuxcnc questions. Anyone know why capslock would get stuck on? I connected via VNC and at some point the system seems to think capslock got put on and there doesn't seem to be a way to turn if off.
02:56 PM roycroft: do you perhaps swap ctl and caps lock?
02:56 PM roycroft: if caps lock is mapped to a different key you may need to find the key that it's mapped to to disengage it
02:56 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The local machine doesn't have caps lock on, only the remote system.
02:57 PM * roycroft has been restoring the ctl key to its proper position ever since ibm came out with that horrible keyboard that moved it into the wrong place back around 1980
02:57 PM roycroft: that's odd
02:57 PM roycroft: disconnect the vnc session and reconnect?
02:57 PM roycroft: maybe restart the vnc server on the host machine as well
02:58 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I disconnected and it persisted so I don't think it is VNC doing it. If I go to the system caps lock is on there as well.
02:58 PM roycroft: and the judge just unsealed the warrant
02:59 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I am using a Kinesis Advantage keyboard so the key positions are very different than normal.
03:00 PM roycroft: that's a problem with vnc and many remote desktop apps - they don't handle dissimilar keyboards particularly well
03:01 PM roycroft: the inventory was also unsealed
03:01 PM roycroft: although faux news have been discussing the copy of the inventory they got for some time now
03:03 PM * roycroft gets ready for the "go ahead and read the warrant, but don't believe what it says. believe what i tell you it says" speech
03:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "don't believe your lying eyes"
03:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "tell me what to think"
03:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Under Investigation For Violating Espionage Act
03:10 PM roguish[m]: laws around Secret stuff are very tough.......... I've seen people get fired for leaving 'confidential' stuff out on a desk overnight.
03:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.grizzly.com/products/teknatool-comet-ii-bed-extension/t32343 i wonder how flat these are ground
03:15 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight[m]: "well, sir. With all due respect to your office... I am ought to inform you that every word you say is listened to live by my lawyer. Thank god for one button speed dial."
03:16 PM roycroft: i have one of those
03:16 PM roycroft: it's flat enough for a wood lathe
03:17 PM Loetmichel: roguish[m]: hehe, same here in germany. Dont ask me how often i had to carry the (military) EMI scan prints back to my boss "Hey, you forgot those on my desk. AGAIN!"
03:17 PM roycroft: it's not ground
03:17 PM roycroft: it's fly cut
03:17 PM roycroft: if you'd like i'll take a straightedge to mine after work and let you know how flat it is
03:18 PM roycroft: what the wingnuts don't seem to get is that #45 is NOT THE PRESIDENT ANY MORE
03:18 PM roycroft: they keep claiming he has the ultimate authority to declassify things
03:18 PM roycroft: and all he has to do is declare them declassified
03:19 PM roycroft: which was correct until the stroke of noon on 20 january 2021
03:19 PM roycroft: but is patently and utterly incorrect now
03:19 PM roycroft: ESPECIALLY since he had his security clearance stripped
03:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: thanks, will skip then
03:20 PM roycroft: wood lathe beds don't need to be very flat
03:20 PM roycroft: nothing is indexed off of them in normal turning operations
03:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: still trying to rationalize MAGA?
03:26 PM roycroft: no, at my age, i cannot afford to damage that many brain cells :)
03:28 PM XXCoder: my brain is damged enough, thanks
03:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://toolsteelservice.com/product/toolsteel/pgfs/lc-precision-ground-flat-stock-standard/lc-precision-ground-flat-stock-standard-12/ but the shipping kills the price
03:29 PM XXCoder: *no thanks
03:32 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_AOfzrQYV0
03:32 PM Rab: They don't say how precise, although I guess they imply it with their display of dimensions (e.g. "24.000 × 3.000 × 0.500 in").
03:33 PM Rab: Precision ground to within a thou long? In the morning, or in the afternoon?
03:33 PM JT-Shop: hmm the new mainboard has a filament sensor port
03:35 PM roycroft: you should be able to find that kind of flat tool steel at any local steel supplier, without incurring shipping costs
03:45 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Also that type of ground flat stock will be on size but not necessarily straight.
03:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: who buys ground flat stock from MSC or McMaster? I can buy precious metals for less
03:48 PM roycroft: abom seems to buy a lot of stuff from mcmaster that i can't understand
03:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I was just comparing prices in a google search
03:48 PM roycroft: i wonder if mcmaster give steep discounts to some commercial accounts
03:48 PM roycroft: i know msc do
03:48 PM Tom_L: you mean regular price?
03:48 PM roycroft: and i know i'm not one of those accounts
03:48 PM Tom_L: not the inflated one
03:49 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Commercial accounts get discounts for sure. Plus he is used to it from his time at Motion.
03:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have managed to stay away from McMaster for the past two months
03:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they are local
03:49 PM Tom_L: gas has been quietly going down again
03:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I just find everything for less nearby
03:49 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The price of ordering something from McMaster << price in time of finding it elsewhere
03:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: have McMasters prices gone up by 100%?
03:50 PM Tom_L: wonder if shipping & cost of goods will follow it
03:50 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Once you get a network of local suppliers, you can get most things cheaper and faster. but for that oddball part, it is still cheaper to use McMaster than find it elsewhere.
03:50 PM roycroft: mcmaster prices have gone up, but not by much
03:51 PM roycroft: there is no network of local suppliers here, sadly
03:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: not if they can help it
03:51 PM roycroft: there is fastenal, who are neither local nor a supplier
03:51 PM roycroft: they are nothing more than a customer abuser
03:51 PM roycroft: and there is eugene fastener, who were not doing enough busines and so decided to cut off most of their accounts, including mine
03:52 PM roycroft: and there are the big box stores
03:52 PM roycroft: we don't even have a grainger around here any more
03:52 PM roycroft: so i use mcmaster for fasteners
03:52 PM roycroft: mcmaster were cheaper than eugene fastener anyway, even with shipping
03:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we still have several suppliers like this around here http://www.toolsteel.com/products
03:55 PM roycroft: you're in a market 15x larger than mine
03:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I can spec finish and straightness and even have them drilled and ready to be mounted
03:55 PM roycroft: i should hope you have more suppliers
03:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: but you have lots of glass suppliers near you
03:58 PM roycroft: we do have several glass suppliers
03:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://lampworksupply.com/
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lots of art glass and scientific glass
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe you should move from wood to glass?
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: never too late to learn a new trade
04:00 PM roycroft: we are the bong capital of oregon
04:04 PM roycroft: i might incorporate some art glass into my wood products, especially the lamps
04:04 PM roycroft: but i do not want glass to be my primary medium
04:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we are going to be the bong capitol of the world here soon
04:06 PM roycroft: i thought north wells street, in old town, already was
04:06 PM roycroft: at least it was in the '70s
04:06 PM roycroft: bong and bootleg records
04:06 PM roycroft: bongs
04:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: you would not recognize that strip of street today
04:07 PM roycroft: i know the earl of old town is long gone
04:07 PM XXCoder: roy I recently saw a video of ocuple making bootleg record out of epoxy
04:07 PM XXCoder: funny
04:07 PM roycroft: that used to be one of my favorite hangouts
04:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm not sure what is even there from the 80's-90's anymore
04:07 PM roycroft: second city was just up the street from the earl
04:07 PM roycroft: is that still there?
04:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes still remains
04:07 PM roycroft: that might be the only thing i would recognise
04:08 PM roycroft: the question is: is it safe to walk the streets there after 5pm?
04:08 PM roycroft: it used to be
04:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heh for a few decades
04:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: by the 80's it was all rehabbed
04:09 PM roycroft: the last time i was in chicago i was told that it's not safe to be in the south part of the loop after 5
04:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: my kids went to school just a block away
04:09 PM roycroft: and the last time i was in chicago was 1996
04:09 PM roycroft: other than a layover in midway in 2000
04:10 PM roycroft: which doesn't count
04:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: south and west loop is all redone
04:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what used to be not after dark is all yuppies
04:10 PM roycroft: i don't at all regret having grown up there
04:10 PM XXCoder: I live at tacoma. highest crime city in wa state. still is, though much less dangerous than it was in 80s-90s
04:11 PM roycroft: and i had good times when i lived there
04:11 PM roycroft: moving to the northwet was the best thing i've ever done, though
04:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even the run down area west side command rents >$1200/mo for a 1br
04:11 PM roycroft: the city was gentrifiying even when i lived there
04:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there are still bad pockets but Cabrini and similar are all gone
04:12 PM roycroft: i worked with a guy who was a roofer at cabrini green and also the hancock center
04:12 PM roycroft: he used to tell some pretty good stories
04:14 PM JT-Shop: mainboard in installed now to snake the bed leveling wire up to the hot end
04:14 PM roycroft: i remember when the hancock center was being built
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: I'm only in the city now for hours per year
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm up in Milwaukee more often
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you haven't missed much
04:15 PM roycroft: i think all the cabrini green units were built by the time i was in kindergarten
04:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: traffic, not much to do but eat, drink and shop
04:16 PM roycroft: i usually used public transportation when i lived there
04:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: once you've been to all the museums and galleries
04:16 PM roycroft: so traffic wasn't an issue
04:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: buses are slow due to traffic
04:17 PM roycroft: i rarely rode the bus
04:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: trains are slow due to old infrastructure
04:17 PM roycroft: it was mostly the el or the subway
04:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: constant maintenance
04:18 PM roycroft: the infrastructure was 40 years younger when i lived there
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's >120 years old now
04:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: like Zinc mentioned earlier, you come back to town and you think the el is going to fall on you
04:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it is so shabby
04:19 PM Tom_L: are they waiting until it does?
04:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: run down, peeling paint, rust rust rust
04:20 PM Tom_L: like bridges... steel rivited bridges have to fall before it becomes a national concern
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/rusting-bridge-downtown-chicago-in-winter-picture-id1096273864
04:21 PM Tom_L: only saving grace is they were overengineered back then
04:21 PM Tom_L: where's the bums?
04:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: usually at expy underpasses
04:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/04/ca_covid19homelessness_041020.jpg?w=1280
04:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: and in congress
04:26 PM roycroft: you know, i don't know how we manage to do it, but we have a lot of bridges on the oregon coast, mostly on highway 101, that were built as wpa projects, and we do a really good job of maintaining them - they're constantly being repaired/repainted
04:26 PM roycroft: https://structurae.net/en/structures/siuslaw-river-bridge
04:26 PM roycroft: that's a good example of one i go over regularly
04:26 PM roycroft: the art deco architecture is really great
04:27 PM roycroft: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/YaquinaBayBridge1.jpg
04:28 PM roycroft: there's another one i go over regularly, and that picture even shows it wrapped on the north (left) side for repainting
04:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: a conservative looks at that and says "why should that money go to a bridge when it can go to me"
04:30 PM XXCoder: sometimes they block stuff so they can take credit when they pass it when in power. then they forget the second step
04:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the bridge problem is also that there are too many middlemen between funding source and construction
04:33 PM Tom_L: roycroft, they should paint it a brighter color, that green is sooo dated
04:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: California's high speed rail project was ridiculous for it's costs
04:35 PM Tom_L: just build vehicles that don't need bridges
04:35 PM XXCoder: just design hover cars so we dont have to fix roads
04:40 PM roycroft: they've been that same color green since the 1930s
04:41 PM roycroft: xxcoder: it's even worse now
04:41 PM roycroft: republicans vote no on bills, and when the bills pass anyway they go home and take credit for them
04:41 PM Tom_L: roycroft, yeah i'm aware... must have had a big sale on that color...
04:42 PM Tom_L: leave politics out of here pls
04:42 PM roycroft: i think it's the anti-rust agents in the paint that mek it green
04:42 PM roycroft: make
04:42 PM Tom_L: probably, aircraft is a yellowish color
04:43 PM roycroft: that particular color green is used across the nation, and it is named odot green, after the oregon department of transportation, who first came up with it
04:43 PM Tom_L: zinc chromate
04:44 PM roycroft: they picked that color because it blended in with the environment well
04:45 PM roycroft: https://bridgemastersinc.com/steel-bridges-painted-green/
04:45 PM roycroft: speaking of paint, when i get off work i need to go get some paint for the shop
04:45 PM roycroft: i have to decide on a color - i painted it bright white when i first moved in
04:45 PM roycroft: flat bright white
04:45 PM roycroft: and i never liked that color much
04:46 PM roycroft: it's very reflective, which is good, but it's a bit too harsh
04:46 PM roycroft: i'm thinking a light grey semi-gloss might be better
04:46 PM roycroft: not as harsh, but it would also not shift the color of the wood that i'm working with
04:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they could use a 50-70 year paint
04:47 PM roycroft: repainting the shop would be a big job, but i haven't painted it in 20 or so years, and could use a fresh coat of paint
04:47 PM roycroft: and i don't have to do it all at once
04:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XZOXRgVBMI not too difficult
04:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just have the death penalty for inspectors that take bribes
04:55 PM JT-Shop: just ordered a filament sensor and it's going to be here Sunday
04:55 PM XXCoder: nice
04:56 PM XXCoder: jt one of fun things you can do with filament sensor is create some model to print then use shortish leftovers for random color strips model
04:56 PM XXCoder: also great way to run out those leftover few meter filaments
04:58 PM roycroft: i might consider getting a filament sensor
04:58 PM roycroft: the extruder i recently got - the "upgrade" is not working out so well
04:58 PM roycroft: it's really hard to load new filament in it, to the point that most of the time i have to remove the bowden tube to get it started, then reinstall the bowden tube
04:59 PM JT-Shop: the new mainboard has a plug for the filament sensor so why not while I'm upgrading
04:59 PM roycroft: now that i'm done with the first big round of box printing i can take some time and get that sorted
04:59 PM JT-Shop: I just need to finger out what firmware to download now...
04:59 PM roycroft: i've debated whether to upgrade the main board or not
05:00 PM roycroft: the reason most folks do it is to make the printer run more quietly, and that doesn't matter to me since i don't hang out near the printer
05:01 PM XXCoder: 8 bit to 32 bit might be worth it
05:01 PM roycroft: but adding a filament sensor and/or a leveling probe would be a reason to upgrade
05:01 PM XXCoder: if already 32 bit then meh
05:05 PM JT-Shop: I had to upgrade for the auto bed leveling thingy
05:06 PM JT-Shop: as a bonus it had filament sensor port
05:07 PM XXCoder: what did you go for on terms of sensor?
05:07 PM XXCoder: theres quite a bunch of em
05:08 PM roycroft: yes, there are no free io pins on my controller board
05:08 PM roycroft: and it is 8 bit
05:08 PM roycroft: maybe it's time to upgrade the main board
05:08 PM XXCoder: id have another functional printer first
05:08 PM XXCoder: in case you need printer parts
05:08 PM roycroft: i'll get it sorted
05:09 PM roycroft: if it's just a matter of swapping boards i should not need to print parts for that phase of the upgrade
05:09 PM JT-Shop: hm the plate the build surface attaches to is very not flat... going to fix that
05:09 PM roycroft: i use a piece of tempered glass for my build plate
05:09 PM JT-Shop: as I understand it's swap boards, insert sd card with .bin file and boot up
05:09 PM roycroft: but there are some fancy flexible metal ones, and i've been meaning to get one of those
05:09 PM roycroft: that's what i thought, jt-shop
05:10 PM JT-Shop: not the build plate the support under it
05:10 PM XXCoder: I love my prusa spring steel sheets
05:10 PM roycroft: oh, the build plate support
05:10 PM XXCoder: textured is amazing. pla and petg
05:10 PM JT-Shop: yep
05:10 PM roycroft: you have a bridgeport it can be flattened :)
05:10 PM JT-Shop: that explains a lot of issues with leveling
05:10 PM XXCoder: jt whats your bed like anyway
05:10 PM roycroft: o
05:10 PM XXCoder: is it springs mounted?
05:10 PM JT-Shop: I can flatten it without the BP
05:10 PM XXCoder: so on
05:10 PM roycroft: i have never had much problem with leveling
05:10 PM roycroft: it just stays level
05:11 PM roycroft: a lot of people seem to have issues with bed leveling
05:11 PM roycroft: i've had a few issues with my printer, but bed leveling has never been one
05:11 PM roycroft: i guess i'm lucky there
05:11 PM roycroft: anyway, it's time to head to jerry's for some paint and patching plaster
05:12 PM JT-Shop: I was using a spacer between the build plate and the support for general leveling
05:12 PM XXCoder: roy yeah mine had .5mm varance. not too bvad
05:13 PM XXCoder: that was before silcine tube mod. its now less than .13mm
05:13 PM JT-Shop: https://www.creality3dofficial.com/files/goods/20220712/ender-3.jpg
05:13 PM JT-Shop: that's a pretty good view of the build plate and support
05:13 PM XXCoder: ok spring mount it is then
05:14 PM XXCoder: not very tall springs which is ok
05:14 PM JT-Shop: I have some new stiffer springs that came with aluminum wheels
05:14 PM XXCoder: ssilicane mod is definitely possible with that I think.
05:14 PM JT-Shop: what does the silicone do?
05:14 PM XXCoder: it will need minium amount of squeeze to be very rigid
05:15 PM XXCoder: act as "springs" but rigid
05:15 PM JT-Shop: the new springs are pretty rigid
05:15 PM XXCoder: should be fine then
05:16 PM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LL9NGQP
05:16 PM JT-Shop: springs are 3 times as thick as stock
05:16 PM XXCoder: nice
05:16 PM XXCoder: all you need to ensure it has good compression but not maxed out
05:16 PM XXCoder: then use bed visualizer to adjust till reasonable flat
05:16 PM JT-Shop: I could live without the red wheels...
05:17 PM JT-Shop: bed visualizer?
05:17 PM XXCoder: hold on on phone
05:17 PM JT-Shop: ok
05:19 PM XXCoder: its addon to octoprint, helps you level
05:20 PM JT-Shop: I use octoprint
05:20 PM Tom_L: https://plugins.octoprint.org/plugins/bedlevelvisualizer/
05:24 PM XXCoder: ok phone call is done. sorry got hold time finished right at your asking lol
05:24 PM XXCoder: tom precisely
05:26 PM XXCoder: phones bit overheated lol gonna love vp calls
05:33 PM XXCoder: https://www.thedrive.com/deals/amazon-dewalt-sale
05:33 PM XXCoder: massive sale
05:33 PM XXCoder: 15 to 53% off
05:33 PM XXCoder: erm 63
05:35 PM JT-Shop: I never click on a link from a site like that
05:36 PM XXCoder: curious why
05:36 PM JT-Shop: it's affiliate links, he gets a kickback
05:37 PM XXCoder: its why site exists really. plus you can always strip affiliate data off url
05:41 PM JT-Shop: support plate is flat and back on time to call it a day
05:41 PM XXCoder: yay
10:14 PM solarwind: As much as I'd love to buy a horizontal bandsaw, they're quite expensive. So My only option is a chop saw I think
10:15 PM solarwind: I have one. But I never use it because those abrasive blades are sooooo horrible
10:15 PM solarwind: I'm cutting structural hollow tube, so not solid bars. Anyone have experience with those metal cutting blades?
10:17 PM solarwind: Steel by the way, mostly A36
10:22 PM roycroft: i paid a bit over $200 for my 7x12 bandsaw
10:22 PM roycroft: it was at a harbor freight parking lot sale
10:22 PM roycroft: the cuts are dead square
10:22 PM roycroft: and it's a lot quieter and cleaner than a chop saw
10:23 PM XXCoder: saw is vastly less, always works. lot of sweat and probably swearing too
10:26 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I had a 7x12 bandsaw for 20 years and it worked great. Bought it for $200 and sold it for $150. Just needed blades fairly often.
10:27 PM XXCoder: theres such thing as automated blade resharper
10:27 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Also have one of those rage metal cutting miter saws. It works well but the blades wear out pretty quickly and can't be re-sharpened.
10:27 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] they're carbide tipped right?
10:28 PM solarwind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7kX7pqaFmI well according to this, they're all tungsten carbide, or cermet
10:28 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The rage saw blades are, yes. The problem is the braised teeth are so small there is nothing to sharpen.
10:28 PM solarwind: excluding the Lenox diamond blades which I use on my angle grinder for copper and aluminum too
10:29 PM XXCoder: I guess filing em is possible but amount of labor
10:29 PM roycroft: decent metal cutting bandsaw blades are difficult to resharpen
10:29 PM roycroft: and they're not that expensive
10:29 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The 7x12 bandsaw blades are usually 18tpi and that is a lot of teeth.
10:30 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: At $20 for a bimetal blade it really isn't worth it.
10:30 PM XXCoder: roy yeah automatic though should be wortj it to resharp few times. would evenually meet and surpass cost of recharper
10:31 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I replaced my 7x12 when I was able to get two of these saws for $300: https://www.busybeetools.com/products/metal-cutting-bandsaw-2hp.html
10:32 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Needed rebuilding with new guide bearings and electrical controls but otherwise fine.
10:32 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] willing to sell one of them? :P
10:32 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: They are lightyears better than the 7x12 but you would expect that for a $4000 saw.
10:33 PM XXCoder: shipping would blow savings up
10:33 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Sorry, the other one went to my buddy 🙂
10:34 PM roycroft: yes, i won't say my 7x12 is a great saw, but it works fine and it makes square cuts
10:35 PM roycroft: it's a good value, for sure
10:35 PM XXCoder: $200 is reasonable yeah
10:35 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I would say the 7x12 is a great saw for the price. They are slow but get the job done.
10:35 PM XXCoder: if it cuts what you want to cut without breaking in a day
10:35 PM roycroft: slow, but they also operate unattended
10:35 PM roycroft: so you can start a cut and go off and do other things while it's finishing
10:36 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yup. The one thing I have seen is a hydraulic downfeed kit. Would really help, but more or less doubles the price of the saw.
10:36 PM roycroft: mine has one
10:36 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Nice, I just had gravity and a big spring.
10:37 PM roycroft: what i usually do is make a cut, start the next one, and head off to the belt grinder to clean up the first one while the second one is cutting
10:37 PM roycroft: my 4x6 had a spring
10:37 PM roycroft: and no hydraulic downfeed
10:37 PM roycroft: i sold that for $250 when i got my 7x12 :)
10:37 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I would cut one, start the next and wander off until I heard the clunk.
10:37 PM roycroft: so i paid for a new blade plus paid for the 7x12
10:39 PM roycroft: the drive gear on my hf 7x12 was brass though
10:40 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/7x12Gear.jpeg
10:40 PM roycroft: it did not last all that long
10:40 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Mmm, glitter
10:40 PM roycroft: but i ordered a steel one from grizzly and that has lasted years
10:40 PM roycroft: i think it was a $24 repair
10:41 PM XXCoder: brass gear is good for removing backlash but for that usahe its strange
10:41 PM roycroft: backlash should not be an issue with a bandsaw
10:42 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Cheap
10:42 PM roycroft: it only ever goes in one direction
10:42 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Actually surprised it isn't plastic.
10:42 PM XXCoder: yeah like zinc said its for cheapness reasons I gues
10:42 PM roycroft: it's brass-colored
10:42 PM XXCoder: true might be butteralloy
10:44 PM roycroft: it's another one of those machines where the hf version and the grizzly version (and other brands like jet) are all made in the same factory with the same castings, but the ancillaries differ
10:44 PM roycroft: the hf is the cheapest, so if you get that, and replace parts with grizzly parts as they fail, you come out well
10:45 PM roycroft: especially if the hf you get is a parking lot sale item
10:45 PM roycroft: mine was missing the vertical table, the coolant pump, and sump
10:46 PM roycroft: i made a table out of a piece of 1/8" steel plate that was laying around, used an old parts cleaner as a sump, and bought a cheap pump at jerry's for about $25
10:50 PM roycroft: pond pumps work well for this kind of application