#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 03 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
03:34 AM travis_farmer: G'Morning, all :-)
04:13 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:14 AM NoGodDamnIdea: hello everyone
04:15 AM TurBoss: morning
04:19 AM JT-Cave: TurBoss, are you building debs for debian 11?
04:20 AM TurBoss: by hand but yeah
04:24 AM JT-Cave: how do you resolve the translation thing poa something
04:26 AM TurBoss: built po4a from github
04:26 AM TurBoss: https://github.com/mquinson/po4a
04:29 AM JT-Cave: thanks
04:32 AM mrec: does anyone know a tool for milling circle discs from sheet metal?
04:32 AM Tom_L: morning
04:33 AM XXCoder: with or without hole at center?
04:33 AM Tom_L: mrec, how many?
04:33 AM Tom_L: make a die and punch them
04:33 AM JT-Cave: laser
04:33 AM cpresser: mrec: a hole-saw?
04:33 AM JT-Cave: water jet
04:33 AM JT-Cave: plasma
04:33 AM JT-Cave: tin snips
04:34 AM XXCoder: glue to rod on lathe, then cut clean circle.
04:34 AM XXCoder: so many options really
04:34 AM mrec: Tom_L: 100-500
04:34 AM mrec: laser would be one option certainly but I'd like to make them here.
04:35 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, instead of building that po4a just point the repo to sid and do an update on that package
04:35 AM Tom_L: mrec, might be worth making a punch
04:35 AM XXCoder: punch probably fastest way if has one
04:35 AM Tom_L: 2 plates and some cork to release the part
04:35 AM Tom_L: just heat treat the edge
04:36 AM Tom_L: and put maybe a 3 deg angle on them
04:37 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, the po4a from sid will bring it to ver 0.67
04:38 AM JT-Cave-: what version does emc 2.9 want?
04:38 AM Tom_L: 0.66 or >
04:39 AM JT-Cave: ok
04:39 AM Tom_L: i pointed to sid and let synaptic package manager update it
04:40 AM Tom_L: that's not the only error i encountered though
04:40 AM Tom_L: i haven't gotten back to it yet.
04:40 AM JT-Cave: ok
04:41 AM Tom_L: emergency vet visit yesterday... had to put my dog down so i've been a little distracted
04:42 AM Tom_L: you could use the nodocs switch also to get past those errors
04:42 AM Tom_L: i got a code dependency error as well
04:44 AM JT-Cave: sorry to hear that
04:44 AM XXCoder: that sucks :(
04:56 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:56 AM Tom_dev: deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main
04:58 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/packagemanager.png
04:59 AM Tom_L: thanks, that sort of thing is never easy
05:01 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:01 AM Tom_dev: JT-Cave, also: https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
05:01 AM Tom_dev: but that's for rip
06:12 AM JT-Cave: ok 2.9 is running on debian 11 now
06:12 AM XXCoder: finishing up your guide eh
06:12 AM JT-Cave: working on it yep
06:22 AM TurBoss: JT-Cave: got experimental debs for probe basic 64
06:22 AM TurBoss: \o/
06:32 AM JT-Cave: nice
06:33 AM TurBoss: for now it just works but develop mode hasn't been tested
06:33 AM TurBoss: I also need to figure how to run qcompile from debs
06:34 AM TurBoss: wait you do it on msact?
06:34 AM TurBoss: s/msact/mesact/
06:38 AM JT-Cave: yes I run bash commands from mesact even those that need sudo
06:38 AM TurBoss: nice
06:39 AM * JT-Cave has to get an early start cleaning chicken shit today... going to Cape Girardeau this morning
06:50 AM JT-Cave: TurBoss, https://github.com/jethornton/mesact/blob/master/mesact/src/libmesact/card.py#L32
06:50 AM JT-Cave: https://github.com/jethornton/mesact/blob/master/mesact/src/libmesact/card.py#L5
06:53 AM JT-Cave: 2.9 docs fail to build on debian 11
06:55 AM JT-Cave: tons of WARNINGS and ERRORS building the docs...
07:07 AM JT-Cave: lots of errors in pid-theory.adoc
07:13 AM satiowadahc[m]: Following or joint error?
07:37 AM JT-Shop: <JT-Cave> 2.9 docs fail to build on debian 11
07:37 AM JT-Shop: <JT-Cave> tons of WARNINGS and ERRORS building the docs...
07:37 AM JT-Shop: <JT-Cave> lots of errors in pid-theory.adoc
08:19 AM perry_j1987: morning
08:35 AM JT-Shop: yo
08:36 AM silopolis[m]: <TurBoss> "built po4a from github" <- JT-Cave: 0.67 is in sid/testing, just dl it and install it on bullseye
08:37 AM silopolis[m]: <Tom_L> "JT-Cave, instead of building..." <- JT-Cave: or this indeed 👍👌
08:38 AM silopolis[m]: <Tom_L> "0.66 or >" <- For building that should be ok, but we now need 0.67 for translation roundtrip
08:39 AM silopolis[m]: <Tom_L> "emergency vet visit yesterday......" <- Sorry for that man 🙏
08:40 AM perry_j1987: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJFt9ZvHYxY fun watch
08:41 AM silopolis[m]: <Tom_dev> "deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/..." <- Don't you need to set repo priority too? Can't remember, long time I haven't played with this 🤔
08:43 AM silopolis[m]: <JT-Shop> "<JT-Cave> 2.9 docs fail to build..." <- Would you please open an issue so we get a chance to track and solve this?
08:47 AM JT-Cave: 213 issues I doubt anyone will look into debian 11 docs not building
08:49 AM silopolis[m]: We haven't decided (yet, if that was only me) to drop 2.9 support for 11, so may be worth it...
08:53 AM JT-Cave: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues/1893
08:53 AM JT-Cave: there you go
08:54 AM mrec: did anyone ever make countersinks on think sheet metal? (eg. 0.3mm)?
08:54 AM mrec: thin*
08:55 AM mrec: just hammering it in also deforms the the surrounding area seems like I need to preload the area before making the sink
08:56 AM TurBoss: JT-Cave: i used dpkgbuildpakg command
08:57 AM TurBoss: `dpkg-buildpackage -b -uc`
08:59 AM JT-Shop: debuild uses dpkg-buildpackage but I didn't use -b
08:59 AM * JT-Shop heads to Cape now
09:02 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not sure what you are looking for here. I chamfer the hole before tapping and with a forming tap there is no burr. I can't imagine there would be much of one with a cutting tap either.
09:03 AM mrec: it's not about the burr, it's about fixing thin sheet metal without having the screw standing off
09:07 AM rmu: 0.3mm is not much to countersink... i'm curious how do you hold it while machining?
09:08 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You want to have 0.3mm sheet metal screwed down with a flat head screw? And countersink it so the head is flush?
09:08 AM jpa-: mrec: are you looking into making something like this? https://www.unipunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Style-2-1024x823.jpg
09:08 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That is tricky. I would look to how they do it on aircraft.
09:10 AM jpa-: https://www.power-tec.co.uk/product/91954/Countersink-Punch typically special tools like this are used
09:10 AM jpa-: https://www.unipunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/style-2.jpg but for one-off you could make your own tool and hammer with it
09:18 AM mrec: jpa-: https://snipboard.io/ABjLsO.jpg
09:18 AM mrec: jpa-: yes something like that but the surrounding is also easily affected without preloading with 0.3mm stainless sheet
09:20 AM mrec: I think about buying some compression springs and make my own tool I have a small press here which can do easily
09:21 AM mrec: wrap a pipe around the punch which gets pressed down onto the material first
09:21 AM _unreal_: t4nk_fn, I seem to have lost the link I posted, do you have it in your logs. the "windows" grbl control software?
09:21 AM jpa-: _unreal_: was it https://github.com/Denvi/Candle ?
09:21 AM jpa-: that's at least one that was discussed here some time ago
09:22 AM t4nk_fn: mmm
09:22 AM t4nk_fn: don't think so
09:22 AM _unreal_: I dont believe thats it
09:23 AM _unreal_: it was windows based only
09:23 AM _unreal_: I thought I book marked it. I was considering testing it out on my daughters computer/mini cnc machine which is a grbl system I built
09:23 AM _unreal_: been very busy with work as of late. though today we are so slow I'm off.
09:24 AM _unreal_: I was suposed to do tank testing pressure testing on blk water, dirty and clean oil tanks. and then fuel tanks but I found major problems with the blk water tank and the work done by other companies.
09:26 AM _unreal_: so I'm on pause. and we dont have any other boats currently under contract to do work on. then again mid summer is THEEEE slowest time of the summer. and the economy isnt helping. BUT the work line that I'm in in general is recession proof.
09:27 AM t4nk_fn: "just learned about a new GRBL sender. "ioSender 2.0.xx" on github. looks interesting."
09:27 AM t4nk_fn: was it that?
09:28 AM _unreal_: windows only. thats likely it
09:30 AM _unreal_: woooo.. look at AMC stock fly
09:30 AM _unreal_: up $1k
09:39 AM flyback: the movie maker or car maker
09:39 AM _unreal_: car maker?
09:40 AM flyback: oh that's right amc isn't around anymore
09:40 AM t4nk_fn: lol, nomen est omen
09:40 AM flyback: I thought there brand was still used for some cars somwhere
09:40 AM t4nk_fn: they're all doomed
09:40 AM flyback: how are you doing _unreal_
09:41 AM flyback: are you recovering from all the money loss and stuff
09:44 AM _unreal_: money... no
10:27 AM norias: :(
10:27 AM norias: wish i could go to imts this year
10:29 AM _unreal_: imts?
10:36 AM thepacket: hi there. apologies if this is not the right chat. Does anyone have any experience machining ceramics? i need to carve the smallest lines i can get on a ceramic surface but most of the bits i've tried can't do the trick
10:38 AM _unreal_: ceramics yes
10:38 AM _unreal_: what are you using
10:38 AM _unreal_: for bits
10:40 AM _unreal_: thepacket, ?
10:40 AM thepacket: 1mm carbide end tips for scrape the surface
10:40 AM thepacket: also apologies for my noobness i recently got in to machining stuff
10:41 AM _unreal_: ahh I'm not sure what kind of a bit that is
10:41 AM _unreal_: is that a fluted bit?
10:41 AM _unreal_: got a link?
10:41 AM _unreal_: I've done plenty of ceramic milling
10:41 AM thepacket: phone... brb
10:47 AM _unreal_: thepacket, ?
10:50 AM thepacket: sry.... still on the phone (gf)
10:50 AM _unreal_: >:) wiped LOL
10:51 AM _unreal_: whipped
11:04 AM roycroft: i ended up ordering more filament anyway, even though i was going to take a break from that
11:04 AM roycroft: i'm out of orange, and i need to print two more orange boxes to finish getting everything off the wall
11:05 AM t4nk_fn: how's the drawers coming along?
11:05 AM roycroft: i'm a week or so away from emptying all the wall storage
11:05 AM roycroft: the drawers are all done
11:05 AM t4nk_fn: got pics?
11:05 AM roycroft: i'm finishing up the top counter
11:05 AM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/32_Tag_Holders_1.jpeg
11:06 AM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/36_Counter_top.jpeg
11:06 AM t4nk_fn: very nice
11:06 AM roycroft: i have to glue the edging onto the counter top, which i'll probably do on saturday morning
11:06 AM roycroft: i need to do it early in the day, before it gets hot
11:07 AM roycroft: then i just need to radius the edges, sand, apply finish, and install the top counter
11:07 AM roycroft: thanks
11:07 AM roycroft: after 20 or so years of dealing with those wall-mounted drawers it's taking a while to get used to the new system
11:08 AM roycroft: but it will be a lot better than the old one, for sure
11:08 AM roycroft: and i am still tripping over hardwood boards every single day, multiple times/day, as i go out into my shop
11:08 AM roycroft: so getting the old storage drawers off the wall and installing the wood rack will be perhaps the biggest improvement of all
11:13 AM roycroft: uh oh
11:13 AM roycroft: the power company have several trucks parked outside my house, and the upses just kicked in on my computer gear
11:14 AM * roycroft may be disappearing for a bit
11:14 AM roycroft: i need to start printing another batch of boxes - perhaps i should hold off for a while to see what the power situation turns out to be
11:15 AM * Tom_L puts a tracker on roycroft
11:15 AM t4nk_fn: I'm gonna print some stuff in a bit, I want to see if I can forego with heating the bed this time
11:15 AM _unreal_: t4nk_fn, any cnc machine building progress?
11:16 AM t4nk_fn: or I'll die on the spot from heat
11:16 AM t4nk_fn: no action taken at all, _unreal_
11:16 AM _unreal_: ?
11:16 AM _unreal_: how come
11:16 AM t4nk_fn: it means I haven't done any work on the cnc, _
11:16 AM t4nk_fn: it means I haven't done any work on the cnc, _unreal_
11:16 AM t4nk_fn: :b
11:17 AM t4nk_fn: been messing around with electronics a bit
11:17 AM t4nk_fn: oh, sorry
11:17 AM t4nk_fn: I misread
11:17 AM t4nk_fn: lol
11:18 AM t4nk_fn: so because I've been doing electronics on the one hand
11:18 AM t4nk_fn: and on the other hand.. because I would have liked to have that pen mount sorted
11:18 AM t4nk_fn: in order to calibrate things
11:20 AM t4nk_fn: but it has been a bit disappointing, and I couldn't get myself to build a better solution
11:21 AM * roycroft has been kind of stuck on his motor mount/pinion mount design
11:21 AM thepacket: _unreal_ back... sry for the delay... you have to put the important thigns first ;)
11:21 AM roycroft: i need to get beyond that soon - i want to start ordering parts for my router right before i leave on vacation in a couple weeks
11:22 AM thepacket: _unreal_ so here is a tip that i used for the ceramics : https://www.fraxeon.com/f221-0-50-mm
11:24 AM _unreal_: thepacket, lol ya.... dont use that
11:24 AM _unreal_: https://www.amazon.com/CNQLIS-Sharpener-Compatible-Gemstones-Accessories/dp/B08SQN2QMM/ref=asc_df_B08SQN2QMM?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80745479685161&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584345028260125&psc=1
11:24 AM _unreal_: bits like that
11:25 AM _unreal_: https://img0.etsystatic.com/068/0/7854696/il_fullxfull.802615038_hl47.jpg
11:25 AM _unreal_: bits like that as well
11:25 AM _unreal_: thepacket, you need to use those kinds of bits with a slow VERY slow feed rate
11:25 AM _unreal_: depth per pass is not as important but feed rate is
11:26 AM _unreal_: IF You can water cool thats 10x better
11:26 AM t4nk_fn: lol, like you do yourself, _unreal_ :b
11:26 AM thepacket: ahhh so you need diamond coating for that material
11:26 AM _unreal_: air assist helps but its good to have a dust shoe collection system as well if your not using and kind of water cooling
11:26 AM _unreal_: for anything ceramic yes
11:26 AM _unreal_: those bits work on glass, stone, fiberglass
11:27 AM thepacket: i would assume that anything hard would work with "hard metal" but i was wrong
11:27 AM _unreal_: metal has a crystal structure that is alined, and its softer by a LOT then any kind of mineral
11:28 AM thepacket: roger. thanks.
11:28 AM _unreal_: i know youve seen them
11:29 AM thepacket: whats the smallest tip you ever worked with? a rough surface like those i'd say there is no way you can get bellow 1mm
11:29 AM _unreal_: but little rocks with designs on them. that are tourist trap trinkets... those are the kinds of bits used with a dremel
11:29 AM _unreal_: the super pointy kind like in the multi pack diamon bit link I posted.
11:29 AM thepacket: yeah i have but i am new at this and can't tell a lot of difference (and i tend to learn by failing)
11:29 AM _unreal_: just have to go SLOW
11:29 AM _unreal_: learning by failing=lack of reading
11:29 AM _unreal_: o,O
11:30 AM t4nk_fn: lol
11:30 AM thepacket: i got the stepcraft book but there is not a lot about ceramics in there
11:30 AM _unreal_: thepacket, quick thing to keep in mind
11:30 AM _unreal_: like materials will use LIKE bits
11:31 AM _unreal_: for example wood is super soft. so its going to want a DEEP toothed blade. because its soft its something that can heat very fast and is an insulator.
11:31 AM _unreal_: so if you use small teeth like the 'DIAMOND" bits I just posted on wood. its going to burn almost instantly
11:32 AM thepacket: they do :p
11:32 AM thepacket: yeah i should dig more
11:32 AM _unreal_: milling stone with diamond bits may not even produce much heat
11:33 AM _unreal_: so....
11:33 AM _unreal_: stone, and cinderblocks are the "same" thing
11:33 AM _unreal_: glass is hard like rock so its likely to work wel with the same bits
11:34 AM thepacket: so whereever i see stone, cinderblock and glass i can assume that it will work with ceramics?
11:34 AM _unreal_: fiberglass "its in the name" GLASS is glass with a resin. depending on the volume of resin to glass it should act like glass and work well with bits that work on stone/glass
11:34 AM _unreal_: yes
11:34 AM _unreal_: if you have a hybrid material then you have to take the middle ground plus speeds/feeds
11:35 AM thepacket: thanks bud. i don't want to say excuses but a lot of sites dont specify ceramics but they do mention stone
11:35 AM rmu: ceramics is a very broad category. i once asked a chemistry phd friend how "ceramics" was defined and he had to admit that he didn't really know.
11:35 AM thepacket: rmu: the same ceramics thats on a cpu
11:35 AM _unreal_: thepacket, what cam sotware do you use?
11:36 AM _unreal_: for making cad files and gcode files?
11:36 AM _unreal_: I use fusio360 and designspark, for cad, and estlcam / fusion360 for cam
11:36 AM thepacket: i am trying fusion360
11:37 AM thepacket: i dont know differences between the rest so i have to start somewhere..
11:37 AM _unreal_: check out designspark. its free and just as powerful as fusion. BUT it does not have a cam feature
11:37 AM Tom_L: rather useless without cam on a cnc
11:37 AM thepacket: do you have any experiences with freecad?
11:38 AM _unreal_: I tried it and found it to be a waste of time. Not saying its no good
11:38 AM thepacket: hmmm
11:38 AM _unreal_: main issue with freecad is that its lots of little programs made by different people, and then put together with a main wrapper
11:39 AM thepacket: i guess theres people on both sides. theres people saying it's crap and theres people defending it but none really praises it
11:39 AM _unreal_: the learning curve is huge and the rate of small failure problems to overcome is huge.
11:39 AM roycroft: i'm thinking a 6' precision straightedge would be useful for aligning the y axis extrusions on my router, but i cannot afford a starrett or similar
11:39 AM roycroft: i have found this at a reasonable price though:
11:39 AM roycroft: https://www.tools4flooring.com/crain-334-professional-straight-edge-6-ft-p-533.html
11:39 AM roycroft: it claims to hold 0.003" tolerance
11:40 AM roycroft: although it does not state if that's per foot or on the overall length
11:40 AM roycroft: is that possibly useful?
11:40 AM _unreal_: thepacket, the other aspect is that. a lot of the little freecad utils, you have to go to the "code" desire of that aspects web site to learn more about it.
11:41 AM roycroft: i have a 3' starrett, but since the length of the extrusions is just shy of 6', a longer one would be nice
11:41 AM _unreal_: again I'm not saying its bad but its a software that is not highly matured, and very spread out. On the same hand a person can do amazing work with it if that is there chosen platform.
11:41 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Can you use the tight wire technique? That can get you quite a bit closer than 0.003"
11:41 AM perry_j1987: i myself am fusion 360 user only thepacket
11:41 AM roycroft: i also want to make a new fence for my table saw, and i'll be using 6' or so rails for that
11:41 AM perry_j1987: its a good one to invest time in
11:42 AM roycroft: i can do that, zincboy
11:42 AM roycroft: i'm not sure how straight they actually need to be
11:42 AM roycroft: the straighter the better, of course
11:43 AM roycroft: i figure that if i can install one rail dead straight, i can make a jig to align the other one parallel to the first one
11:43 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: It is one of the things that will determine the accuracy of the machine so it depends on your goals.
11:43 AM _unreal_: thepacket, if your using fusion360. the cam side of it has a huge data base of materials=feeds and speeds for making gcode.
11:43 AM roycroft: well my goal is to hold 0.005" on the x-y plane
11:43 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You can indicate the second rail off the first.
11:43 AM roycroft: yes, that's what i'm saying
11:44 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: 0.003" would be most of that budget.
11:44 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I would aim for 0.0005" as this is just one source.
11:45 AM roycroft: i'd install the first extrusion, install the linear rail on that, make them as straight as possible, then install a couple trucks on the rail, mount a cross beam to the trucks, and stick an indicator on the far side of the cross beam to align the second extrusion and rail
11:45 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That is the way to do it.
11:46 AM roycroft: using a tight wire for the first extrusion would save money, and as you mentioned, can achieve greater accuracy
11:47 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Better if you can clamp the first rail against a machined straight step in the extrusion but this is more for when you have a more rigid machine.
11:47 AM roycroft: yes, that would be better, but it's not in my budget for this build
11:48 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The tight wire method is how I have done it and it is surprisingly easy to do. Also much nicer not trying to store a 6' precision straight edge 🙂
11:48 AM roycroft: indeed
11:48 AM roycroft: i even have concerns about storing my 3' precision straight edge
11:48 AM roycroft: there's only one place in my shop where i feel safe storing it, and it's rather inconvenient to access it there
11:48 AM roycroft: fortunately i don't need to use it often
11:49 AM roycroft: if i stored it anywhere else i'd have to remove the word "precison" eventually
11:49 AM _unreal_: lol... roycroft precision levels are suposed to be stowed hanging
11:50 AM roycroft: i am comparing my design to the commercial routers of the same size as mine, and they don't seem to have those kinds of precision ground surfaces
11:51 AM roycroft: my 3' precision straight edge is not a level
11:51 AM _unreal_: its hard to warp when gravity is limited to near zero force on the broad side.
11:51 AM roycroft: my precision levels are stored in boxes
11:51 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: No, they won't until you get to the higher end stuff. The ones made from extrusion are all pretty much the same.
11:51 AM roycroft: but they are short
11:52 AM roycroft: zincboy: avid cnc is pretty popular, and they just use extrusions up to 4'x8'
11:52 AM roycroft: they claim 0.005" accuracy at that size using extrusions
11:53 AM roycroft: i think i can build one that is as good as those
11:55 AM roycroft: their 2'x4' (roughly the size of the one i'm building) claims 0.002" repeatability and 0.005" accuracy
11:55 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: popular != high end. And I didn't say you couldn't do 0.005" using that method. Just that when you get to the weldment frame class of machine that is where you see the precision surfaces. Plus things like 17hp spindles and tool changes.
11:55 AM jpa-: 0.005" over 8' is just 5°C of thermal expansion
11:55 AM roycroft: which is plenty fine for me
11:55 AM roycroft: yeah, and i don't need that
11:55 AM roycroft: for now
11:55 AM roycroft: maybe some day
11:55 AM roycroft: i'll be routing wood
11:55 AM roycroft: i can fine tune with abrasive pads if necessary :)
11:56 AM XXCoder: can always watch yorkshire videos again for adjusting to get precision
11:56 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, their accuracy numbers are pretty suspect for any real world use case.
11:56 AM jpa-: IMO squaredness and staying square are the most important aspects of router precision
11:56 AM roycroft: that guy has anal retentiveness perfected :)
11:57 AM roycroft: that's my sense, jpa-
11:57 AM roycroft: and i know my design puts me at a disadvantage right away, as the frame itself will be made of wood
11:57 AM roycroft: it will be high quality plywood, in a torsion box design, with plenty of bracing
11:58 AM jpa-: https://github.com/HacklabJKL/sergei_cnc2/blob/main/linuxcnc/config/hal_components/matrixkins.comp i made this kinematics module to be able to calibrate out small alignment errors to the accuracy that i can measure them
11:59 AM roycroft: thanks for that link - i might find it useful when i'm doing my build, and i've bookmarked it
11:59 AM jpa-: i might try to get it to linuxcnc main repo also once i've tested it enough
12:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: DIY some laser interferometers for X and Y and compensate for thermal expansion, show those extrusions who is boss!
12:49 PM silopolis[m]: <jpa-> "i might try to get it to..." <- Yes please 👍
01:20 PM unterhaus_: jessum stock guides for tablesaw are on sale again
01:20 PM perry_j1987: this is wonderful
01:20 PM perry_j1987: the same post processer i used yesterday now outputs errors heh
01:22 PM _unreal_: time to break out the time machine
01:22 PM roycroft: i can't use them on my current fence
01:22 PM perry_j1987: lol
01:22 PM roycroft: which is one reason i'm thinking of making a new fence
01:23 PM roycroft: maybe if i spend the $200 or so on the stock guides my hand will be forced
01:24 PM roycroft: but where are they on sale?
01:27 PM * roycroft should probably just buy a power feeder instead
01:58 PM perry_j1987: ok... cant export gcode for lathe with drill ops now
02:17 PM perry_j1987: for some reason on this part it wont let me export
02:17 PM perry_j1987: claims there are milling tool paths....
02:17 PM perry_j1987: supress the drilling ops and then it exports fine
02:25 PM unterhaus_: roycroft cheapest as sold by amazon, woodcraft has them for $10 more
02:43 PM roycroft: oh, yeah
02:44 PM roycroft: i see three different listings for the same thing on amazon, for three different prices
02:44 PM roycroft: which does not surprise me
02:45 PM t4nk_fn: whatever a fool will pay :|
02:47 PM XXCoder: one of them probably having massive shipping fee
02:51 PM XXCoder: roy interesting one https://www.printables.com/model/36837-spool-winder-remix
02:52 PM XXCoder: saw it linked at prusa unoffical discord
02:52 PM t4nk_fn: XXCoder, just tried https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5396532
02:53 PM t4nk_fn: nice idea, but a bit of a pain to assemble, might take the idea and do it a bit differently
02:54 PM XXCoder: if you has a shop, as well as use more vitamins
02:54 PM XXCoder: like if you have allthread use that, and print holder ends and done.
03:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tested a 5.19rt kernel yesterday on LCNC 2.9, Axis got a core dump
03:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this was with Debian 11 (Bullseye)
03:03 PM djsftree5725[m]: i'm using 5.19rt and 2.9 on the rpi4, bookworm.
03:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no issues with Gentoo 5.19rt and 2.9 so far
03:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I didn't dig into the issue for more than a couple mnutes
03:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I read that there were issues like this a few Debians back with tcl or tkinter
03:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I didn't try a QT GUI to verify
03:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: dmesg had nothing
03:05 PM djsftree5725[m]: and genserkins experts here tonight?
03:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Axis would load and before you could start the machine it would core dump
03:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: djsftree#5725: just ask and then try posting on the forums
03:17 PM djsftree5725[m]: so i'm working on the DH params for my robot and wondreing about the last joint
03:17 PM * djsftree5725[m] uploaded an image: (77KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/ucyAnmpDneIfysSWbZRWPtvq/unknown.png >
03:17 PM djsftree5725[m]: my end effector (green model) is a mount for spindle with tool tip offsets as shown from j5
03:19 PM djsftree5725[m]: do I need to adjust the vals of setp genserkins.D-5 70.0 to accomodate the new tool offset from j5?
03:21 PM djsftree5725[m]: should this technically be 7 joint robot but no HALrotate on the last joint?
03:25 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (45KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/bPkfZqQjjruGfOEdCgHaCkXI/ly-01Aug2022-143451.png >
03:27 PM * djsftree5725[m] uploaded an image: (215KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/ZFJThIPGeHGFTTCugJXEFMrx/unknown.png >
03:27 PM * djsftree5725[m] uploaded an image: (118KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/XjyMmlpVsRwWYCSutYcQSbbl/unknown.png >
03:28 PM XXCoder: dual head. interesting
03:29 PM djsftree5725[m]: j2 and j4 jold some natural weight ~ 2kg . Would it be useful to add BIAS to pid ? if so, where do you start?
03:33 PM djsftree5725[m]: the robot has feedback for asbolute encoder, velocity(deg/s) and torque (% of max)
03:34 PM djsftree5725[m]: any tips for genserkins setup for this offset end effector would be much appreciated
03:35 PM djsftree5725[m]: will rotate j5 180deg for probing a few features
03:36 PM _unreal_: anyone good at compiling? https://github.com/grblHAL/ESP32
03:36 PM _unreal_: trying to figure out if I can compile this with ARDUINO IDE?
03:44 PM _unreal_: ugh....
03:46 PM _unreal_: waiting for apt-get update
03:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: djsftree#5725: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/44249-genserkins-6-axis-strange-behavior#226645 from this post I'd figure that it requires a custom component for your offsets
03:47 PM _unreal_: good lord
03:47 PM _unreal_: 1 hour estimated download time3
04:28 PM roycroft: kids these days have no patience :)
04:29 PM * roycroft remembers when downloading a linux distro took a day and a half on a compressed slip dialup connection
04:30 PM XXCoder: i remember taking few hours to download 1 mb file
04:31 PM Loetmichel_: roycroft: and that distro fitted on a single CD
04:31 PM Loetmichel_: XXCoder: my first modem was a Discovery 1200
04:32 PM Loetmichel_: ... and my first phone bill after that was around 500DM ;)
04:32 PM XXCoder: fancy
04:32 PM XXCoder: mine was 2400 baud
04:32 PM XXCoder: and yeah I cant translate 500dm to usd of same year
04:36 PM Loetmichel_: XXCoder: about $230 in 1986
04:37 PM XXCoder: thats pretty lot. my first "internet" usage was 1993 with aol
04:37 PM Loetmichel_: yep, that was Z-net and mailboxing in general
04:37 PM Loetmichel_: with an amiga 500
04:38 PM Loetmichel_: it was especially a lot for my dad that had to pay that phone bill.
04:38 PM XXCoder: it was thankfully local connection for me
04:39 PM XXCoder: I paid maybe $20? $30? for phone usage
04:39 PM XXCoder: man having a hardline. so few have that now
04:40 PM Loetmichel_: yeah, long distance calls were expensive in germany back then
04:41 PM XXCoder: not too bad here, but yeah there was such thing as long distance billing then also
04:51 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:49 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:54 PM _unreal_: roycroft, this laptop I'm updating is not fast
05:59 PM t4nk_fn: are you still at it1?
06:00 PM t4nk_fn: I might try grbl on esp32 myself
06:07 PM _unreal_: t4nk_fn, high
06:07 PM _unreal_: hi
06:07 PM _unreal_: yes I am but have not done much
06:07 PM _unreal_: right now I'm updating the laptop that I installed ubuntu on
06:08 PM t4nk_fn: _unreal_, high, euh.. I mean hi
06:08 PM t4nk_fn: I meant 'are you still at it, updating the laptop'
06:08 PM t4nk_fn: hehe
06:08 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, as far as the docs the only thing i see he did different was to build that po4a package instead of getting it from sid
06:08 PM _unreal_: FINALLY updates are done
06:09 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i'm not sure how to build it
06:10 PM Tom_L: getting it from sid pulls in a whole lot of other dependencies
06:10 PM JT-Shop: where did you see that TurBoss built the po4a package?
06:10 PM Tom_L: hang on
06:11 PM _unreal_: t4nk_fn, my next step is to follow the steps on that site https://github.com/grblHAL/ESP32
06:11 PM _unreal_: t4nk_fn, https://github.com/grblHAL/ESP32/blob/master/main/espduino-32_wemos_d1_r32_uno_map.h that is the map file
06:11 PM _unreal_: for the board I have
06:12 PM _unreal_: which is the uno form factor clone
06:12 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
06:12 PM _unreal_: what I'm not 100% sure of is if I can use the uno motor controller hat or not. because its a 3v3 the esp32
06:12 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, https://github.com/mquinson/po4a
06:12 PM Tom_L: that's the one he used
06:13 PM Tom_L: i just don't know how to build it
06:14 PM JT-Shop: me neither seems to be some kind perl thing dunno
06:14 PM Tom_L: perl Build.PL
06:14 PM Tom_L: ./Build
06:14 PM Tom_L: ./Build install
06:14 PM JT-Shop: saw that
06:14 PM Tom_L: maybe i'll try again but i don't know what perl packages it needs
06:15 PM Tom_L: i blew my first install.. starting again
06:15 PM JT-Shop: I think I'll pass trying to build po4a looks like a pia to me
06:15 PM Tom_L: never done any perl at all
06:15 PM Tom_L: unless you can get his thoughts on it :)
06:16 PM JT-Shop: maybe in the morning TurBoss will be around
06:16 PM Tom_L: yeah there has to be a way to get the docs built
06:16 PM Tom_L: i don't need them personally but it should build
06:16 PM JT-Shop: agree
06:17 PM Tom_L: i'm gonna build no-docs this round and see what happens
06:17 PM Tom_L: and leave po4a alone for now
06:17 PM JT-Shop: hmm he still has a .travis.yml file and that is gone
06:17 PM JT-Shop: no-docs worked fine for me with a clean install
06:17 PM Tom_L: i'll try that first
06:18 PM Tom_L: where did you get 12?
06:18 PM JT-Shop: the error didn't seem to be anything about po4a
06:18 PM Tom_L: missing dependency file?
06:18 PM Tom_L: i got an error about that
06:18 PM JT-Shop: you install 11.4 first then https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/debian-12.html
06:19 PM Tom_L: ok just change the sources and update
06:19 PM JT-Shop: and do a full-upgrade
06:19 PM Tom_L: yeah
06:19 PM JT-Shop: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues/1893
06:20 PM Tom_L: did you do that before or after building linuxcnc?
06:20 PM JT-Shop: I added a text file with the errors
06:20 PM JT-Shop: upgrade to 12 then install linuxcnc
06:20 PM JT-Shop: as it's already there...
06:20 PM Tom_L: i wonder what would happen if you installed linuxcnc before updating to 12
06:21 PM JT-Shop: try and see
06:21 PM Tom_L: heh
06:21 PM JT-Shop: I don't wonder about that at all
06:21 PM Tom_L: i doubt i try it
06:21 PM JT-Shop: I know I won't try it
06:22 PM JT-Shop: don't bother updating until you change the sources.list
06:22 PM Tom_L: right
06:22 PM Tom_L: for 12 you mean
06:22 PM JT-Shop: yup
06:22 PM JT-Shop: or 13
06:22 PM Tom_L: k
06:23 PM Tom_L: if debian has it's ducks in a row it should work
06:23 PM Tom_L: but i kinda doubt they do
06:23 PM JT-Shop: I've done both 12 and 13
06:23 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure how 'official' linuxcnc is yet
06:23 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/debian-12-emc.html
06:24 PM JT-Shop: it's about as official as you can get
06:24 PM Tom_L: i mean as far as a debian package
06:24 PM JT-Shop: if it's a debian package it's official
06:25 PM Tom_L: i think they're still trying to fix the docs aren't they?
06:25 PM JT-Shop: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linuxcnc-uspace
06:25 PM Tom_L: for bookworm
06:25 PM Tom_L: cool
06:26 PM JT-Shop: afaik the docs are there
06:27 PM Tom_L: bookworm is 12 so maybe once i get 12 installed i'll try installing from the package manager and see what happens
06:27 PM Tom_L: gonna finish this 11 one first
06:28 PM JT-Shop: it worked for me on 12 and 13, doing 12 over again in the am
06:28 PM * JT-Shop retires to the couch
06:43 PM solarwind: https://www.reddit.com/r/Machinists/comments/wfdanw/3d_surfacing_on_a_mill/
06:43 PM solarwind: What end mill is that?
06:43 PM solarwind: It looks like it's giving an amazing surface finish
06:44 PM solarwind: Also is that steel or aluminum?
06:44 PM Tom_L: looking at the mill coating i'd say steel
06:45 PM Tom_L: if it were aluminum the coating would be goldish color
06:45 PM Tom_L: on the cutter
06:45 PM solarwind: Tom_L do you know what the tool is?
06:46 PM Tom_L: no some carbide tapered cutter
06:46 PM XXCoder: machine looks to be expensive to have software that does anti-chattering
06:46 PM XXCoder: *expensive enough
06:46 PM t4nk_fn: _unreal_, yeah, those are the same kind of map files as for the stm32 version
06:47 PM _unreal_: thats for the board I have the esp32
06:47 PM _unreal_: not stm
06:47 PM t4nk_fn: that's what I said
06:48 PM t4nk_fn: so you're at the exact same point as before
06:49 PM _unreal_: yes downloading files
06:49 PM * t4nk_fn puts some poppn'corn in the mi-cwo-wave
06:49 PM _unreal_: oooo... not a bad idea
06:51 PM Tom_L: solarwind, probably TiALN coating
06:51 PM Tom_L: that's for steel
06:51 PM Tom_L: ZRN is more for aluminum
06:55 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i had to add one dependency to your list: libusb-1.0-0-dev
06:55 PM Tom_L: to make dpkg-checkdependencies happy
06:59 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:02 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, 2.9.0~pre0 installed fine this time
07:24 PM _unreal_: t4nk_fn, are you considering getting one of those esp32 boards?
07:25 PM t4nk_fn: I have esp32 boards on hand
07:30 PM _unreal_: t4nk_fn, my laptop is currently CHUGING on https://github.com/grblHAL/ESP32 I'm at this command . ~/esp/esp-idf/export.sh
07:30 PM refo[m]: I have the weirdest thing going, only tangentially LinuxCNC related. A bunch of stepper drivers are not responding to signals. I’ve verified everything with a scope: input signal shape, width, timing look good. The output looks like a motor energized to hold and it does not change. The stepper drivers are a new (to me) model, old drivers work fine, still use them on other axes. I would really appreciate any ideas to investigate, I really
07:30 PM refo[m]: don’t think they are defective.
07:32 PM _unreal_: new stepper drivers. what is there interface. is it identical?
07:33 PM refo[m]: yea, same brand
07:34 PM Tom_L: enables enabled? invert the step signal?
07:34 PM refo[m]: enables enabled
07:35 PM _unreal_: same pinout requirements?
07:35 PM _unreal_: and you said your using the old drivers on different motors same setup?
07:35 PM refo[m]: yea they are virtually identical except they have an alarm signal
07:36 PM refo[m]: which i'm not using for now
07:36 PM refo[m]: i've disconnected the motors at this stage, just looking at it with a scope
07:37 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't run the drivers with no stepper attached
07:38 PM refo[m]: i'll put it back on, doesn't seem to affect the picture yet, didn't know it's bad for the driver
07:43 PM XXCoder: any requirements on alarm signal?
07:43 PM XXCoder: it might treat floating as alarm on
07:43 PM refo[m]: that might be it
07:44 PM _unreal_: refo[m], could you post the models of the old and new controllers
07:44 PM _unreal_: that will let the guys here compare and contrast.
07:44 PM _unreal_: and what controller are you using? mesa?
07:48 PM refo[m]: found it, there is a new setting for control voltage, it was set to 24v
07:48 PM refo[m]: yep, 7c80
07:49 PM XXCoder: so it was why it refused to move?
07:49 PM refo[m]: yea
07:49 PM _unreal_: what does that setting do?
07:50 PM _unreal_: dont know what motor controlers your using
07:51 PM refo[m]: the setting changes control voltage levels
07:51 PM refo[m]: the new drivers are DM542T 4.0
07:52 PM refo[m]: the 4.0 turned out to be critical, i was looking at an old manual
07:52 PM _unreal_: who says reading doesnt pay off ;)
07:55 PM t4nk_fn: lol :)
07:56 PM t4nk_fn: don't be so harsh there, _unreal_ ... it doesn't come to us as naturally as it does come to you :b
07:56 PM * Tom_L snickers a bit
07:58 PM XXCoder: refo[m]: nice :)
07:58 PM refo[m]: thank you for your help!
07:58 PM _unreal_: refo[m], we couldnt have done it with out you ;)
07:58 PM _unreal_: LOL
07:58 PM refo[m]: everything is turning nicely
08:00 PM _unreal_: and crickets
08:01 PM XXCoder: unreal thats bit fast. I have had restroom breaks way longer than less than 2 minutes
08:03 PM _unreal_: ahhh ;) TMI..... #1 or #2
08:04 PM XXCoder: yes
08:14 PM _unreal_: O..M....G.... so annoying. still trying to get this thing for the esp compiled but every time I try to build. I have an other build error X ABC not installed fail to compile. SIGH
08:14 PM _unreal_: now I'm installing PIP
08:15 PM _unreal_: installing 2k megs to download
08:15 PM _unreal_: LOL
08:30 PM _unreal_: bnand now I need cmake
08:30 PM _unreal_: ugh
08:30 PM _unreal_: and
08:36 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:41 PM Tom_L: yay! bookworm installed with linuxcnc 2.9.0~pre0
08:42 PM Tom_L: built mesaflash and mesact
08:46 PM Tom_L: cat /etc/debian_version returns bookworm/sid
08:46 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:46 PM Tom_dev: Linux bookworm 5.18.0-3-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT Debian 5.18.14-1 (2022-07-23) x86_64 GNU/Linux
09:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 🎊