#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 29 2022

01:33 AM Loetmichel_: *ooops* ... just killed a dove (i think) ... now i have a sharp "Dove dust snow angel" on my windshield. Dumb animal. Flying straight into a windshield of a car traveling at 90kph(55mph) is NOT good for your health. :(
01:43 AM XXCoder: indeed. well glass is hard to see I guess
01:43 AM Loetmichel_: the car isnt though
01:43 AM XXCoder: pronbably thought can fly though car
01:43 AM pere: Loetmichel_: It sound more likely that it was hovering, minding its own business, when some huge nerve wrecking lump of metal and glass came at it in 90 kph.
01:43 AM Loetmichel_: dove-> thinking: implausible.
02:11 AM Loetmichel_: oh, co-worker just came in after me and confirmed that the dove is dead. laying on the side of the highway.
02:11 AM XXCoder: dinnertime
02:12 AM Loetmichel_: THAT would be "poaching" IIRC
02:13 AM Loetmichel_: and actually be against law.
02:13 AM XXCoder: oh interesting. dunno in usa
02:15 AM Loetmichel_: in germany if you have an accident with wildlife you have to call the police which will call the local hunter (that rented the woods it happened in as hunting grounds) to remove it. Thats for wildlife thats considered "huntable". I think doves fall unter "pests". But it would still be poaching if you take it without sending note/call the local hunter.
02:28 AM rmu: hummingbirds can hover pretty well and are not predatory
02:29 AM rmu: never been attacked by a hummingbird. but had unpleasent encounters with male ducks that are also not considered birds of prey.
04:03 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:05 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:40 AM Tom_L: morning
04:42 AM Loetmichel_: rmu: point was that the only birds i know of being able to "hover in place" are birds of prey so they can identify their target. Hummingbirds may be a n exception because they need to stay stationary in front of the flowers they suck nectar out of.
04:43 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:01 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, you see my note about making a crontab?
05:01 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2022-07-28.html
05:01 AM Tom_L: 6:58PM
05:03 AM JT-Cave: yes
05:04 AM JT-Cave: 08:11 PM JT-Cave: ok
05:05 AM Tom_L: missed that :)
05:08 AM JT-Cave: why did you do dpms and -dpms?
06:09 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/index.html
06:29 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:37 AM satiowadahc[m]: Hal components are basically executables living in /usr/bin. Since LCNC is a bash file, would it make sense to put the ini files location in PATH in the script for custom halcomponents/ user interfaces? Variables are temporary to the session so it would be reverted to default right after?
06:42 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:47 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:51 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:55 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, nice page
06:55 AM Tom_L: that wasn't my line.. bud gave it to me but that's what he uses
06:58 AM Tom_L: i just happened to remember crontab from the bot
07:01 AM JT-Cave: installing debian 12 but may run out of time this morning to finish
07:02 AM JT-Cave: I'm completely reworking the linuxcnc pages on gnipsel
07:04 AM Tom_L: and i just got used to where things were :)
07:12 AM Tom_L: do you need backports with bookworm?
07:14 AM JT-Cave: I don't
07:14 AM Tom_L: i haven't tried it yet
07:18 AM Tom_L: i did get 11 installed but didn't build linuxcnc successfully on it yet
07:19 AM JT-Cave: I ordered some more of those cheap 240GB SSD drives to try different OS's on
07:20 AM Tom_L: i'm gonna pick up a couple more today i think
07:20 AM Tom_L: i still have some but with backup stuff on them
07:20 AM Tom_L: i stick with the samsung because i never know where they may end up
07:21 AM Tom_L: hi ho hi ho it's off to work i go...
07:22 AM Tom_L: are you planning to leave the debian 9 10 install stuff up?
07:23 AM Tom_L: i still use 10 from time to time
07:23 AM JT-Cave: yes, I have to recreate the rst files for them... remember when I wiped out the hd on this pc
07:23 AM turnmycnc: hi someone familar with git for linuxcnc
07:23 AM Tom_L: glad i grabbed what i needed last night then :)
07:23 AM turnmycnc: how do i set the git back to a point
07:24 AM Tom_L: later..
07:24 AM turnmycnc: the point buildbot calls 7127
07:24 AM JT-Cave: the old linuxcnc stuff is still up, as I recreate the rst files I'll move them
07:24 AM turnmycnc: JT-Cave
07:25 AM turnmycnc: jt-cavw the old stuff is running pefect as i can recall
07:25 AM JT-Cave: hmm old stuff not found opps
07:26 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I didn't use diodes on my implementation of a control panel with 7i73. The way it scans means diodes are not required (or they are built in to the board already).
07:26 AM turnmycnc: ZincBoy[CAON][m] idid make a forum entry on gmoccapy
07:27 AM turnmycnc: ZincBoy[CAON][m] can you help me with finding and setting git back to the 7127 buildbot compile
07:27 AM turnmycnc: im not that crack to do this on my own
07:29 AM Splat7847[m]: ZincBoy[CA, ON] thanks. Gives me more confidence to move foreword with my PCB designs
07:30 AM * JT-Cave goes to split firewood
07:30 AM turnmycnc: Splat7847[m] the old eagle version got CNC feather to get nice PCB
07:31 AM turnmycnc: Question are old buildbot builds stored I Guess not
07:33 AM Splat7847[m]: @turnmycnc I use kicad. And I've mostly designed all my PCBs but then I started seeing stuff about diodes and have been unsure if I need to redesign my control panel breakout boards or not
07:35 AM * ZincBoy[CAON][m] uploaded an image: (887KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/uwzmlYCMLPPRbXFTerLbdrMA/IMG_0400.jpg >
07:35 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I just hand wired mine as a pcb would have been pretty big. Everything other than the keyboard and estop are controlled by one 7i73. All the buttons light up when active/selected.
07:36 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The one thing I would suggest is to look at EMI issues. Have a solid ground plane and ferrite beads to kill common mode noise.
07:38 AM Splat7847[m]: Yeah, I'm using breakout boards so I get screw terminals etc.. and then making some 2x4 modules with cherry MX blue switches
07:40 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I would add ferrites to the lines on the PCBs. I had to add snap on ferrites to my panel to solve some noise issues.
07:46 AM DanSand: Hi All. I've designed my own servo which has the real-time motion controll stuff built-in. From what I've read, linuxcnc isn't usually used this way. I'm curious if there's an easy way to get linuxcnc to output X, Y, and Z positions from gcode. I could then send those coordinates directly to the servos' position queue. Is this something easy
07:46 AM DanSand: or would it require significant linuxcnc code changes?
07:49 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Two ways I can think of.
07:49 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Use step/direction inputs on your drives to control the position
07:50 AM DanSand: Yeah, that possibility occurred to me but seems hacky. Also, the servos are USB controlled and from what I read linuxcnc doesn't support that since it's expecting to real-time control everything.
07:51 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Or create a hal component to pipe the axis.L.pos-cmd values out over what ever comm bus you are using. This is more difficult to do real-time and keep sync between axis.
07:51 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: USB won't work at all. It is not real time.
07:52 AM DanSand: I don't need real-time output. Just a list of xyz coordinates (X1, Y1, Z1), (Z2, Y2, Z2), ... that I can then feed to my servos. The real-time will be handled by the servos themselves. I'll just queue-up positions in their position queues.
07:52 AM turnmycnc: ZincBoy[CAON][m] how do i compile without DOCS for faster compiling
07:53 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Are all the servos on one controller? how will you handle synchronized motion?
07:53 AM turnmycnc: DanSand the Gui needs realtime
07:53 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I am not an expert on git or compiling linuxcnc so I can't help you there.
07:54 AM DanSand: The servos share an RS485 bus and synchronize timing through that. And they each have a queue of positions. So as long as the queue doesn't ever empty, and as long as the timing is kept synchronized properly, the axis should align.
07:55 AM DanSand: Hmm. I know linuxcnc has a simulator. If that simulator can use gcode, perhaps it'd be better to plug into that? Cause I need more of a batch-process where X, Y, Z coords are output, rather than any real time functionality. What do you think?
07:56 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: But what happens if I move from X0 Y0 to X1 Y10? Does the X move complete before the Y or are they synchronized.
07:57 AM turnmycnc: Dan is that ethercat bases RS485
07:57 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I really don't think linuxcnc is a good solution for what you want to do. Something like klipper would be a better fit as it expects to work in this way.
07:57 AM DanSand: There's code that feeds positions into the queues of each servo every X milliseconds.
07:57 AM DanSand: Ok, I never heard of klipper so that is very useful, thanks. What about the idea of using the simulator? That is part of linuxcnc, right?
08:00 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I mean you could take the axis.L.pos_cmd pins and pipe them out every n milliseconds. This would need a custom HAL component but those are easy to write. Performance is not going to be in any way good though.
08:00 AM DanSand: turnmycnc: nope, not ethercat based. Just old-school 3 wire RS485
08:01 AM turnmycnc: so only a simple python serial you need to capturer
08:01 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Turnmycnc has a good suggestion to use ethercat. If you can configure your drives to use ethercat over rs485 then it could work.
08:02 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Simulator is not real time in anyway. I would not use it for any real system. It has all the same issues as using the normal real-time mode.
08:03 AM DanSand: ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not sure what performance means in this case. I just need a batch process -- if it takes 5 minutes to generate coordinates it would be fine, as once I have all the coordinates I would just stream them into the motor's position queues.
08:03 AM DanSand: The problem is right now I'm using USB to RS485 bridge because I don't need real-time on the host since the uC in the servos handles that. So Ethercat would be a big change that I don't otherwise need.
08:03 AM turnmycnc: DanSand what system is the main RS485 port
08:04 AM turnmycnc: DanSand it seams you just want to move a Robot to coordinates
08:05 AM DanSand: It's cross platform, it can work on Windows/Linux/Mac because it doesn't need real-time there. The servos themselves take care of the real-time stuff. Yes, I just need cartesian coordinates from gcode. I thought linuxcnc was looking into since it seems like the most advanced/supported system with a big ecosystem of GUI stuff, etc.
08:06 AM DanSand: s/was looking into/was worth looking into
08:10 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I still don't think linuxcnc is a good choice for this. It is easy to pull xyz coordinates directly from a gcode file as basic gcode is easy to parse. You could use the rs274 parser code if needed but you would need to create an application around it.
08:12 AM DanSand: You're probably correct. I just know that gcode supports many things like lines, arcs, splines?, etc, and I figured that rather than re-inventing the wheel I should just figure out how to use existing solutions. But you very well may be correct -- I'm trying to choose the correct (shorter) path.
08:14 AM turnmycnc: look into RasperyCNC there is simply RS485 out and IN
08:16 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I recall seeing quite a few off-line motion planners for robot applications that might fit your needs.
08:16 AM DanSand: turnmycnc: Cool, I will look into that too, thank you. I'm curious -- If the simulator doesn't need actual hardware, then how come that's not a good approach for a place to tie-in?
08:17 AM turnmycnc: even glade with the pythonserial can make you a very quick GUI
08:18 AM turnmycnc: DanSand SIM is a simple GIFT as no oututs are connectet and the GUI runs as a real machine
08:18 AM DanSand: turnmycnc: Was thinking of using Electron for the GUI part, but Glade is worth looking into too. At the beginning I can do without a GUI.
08:19 AM turnmycnc: download the ISO burn a STICK and run Linuxcnc as so many SIMS are on there ROBOTS are under AXIS.VISMACH
08:19 AM DanSand: turnmycnc: Seems like I can simulator some generic step/dir motors, and then make so the HAL keeps track of where it is on the axis and outputs it at a regular rate and then I'd have the info. But yeah, like you guys are saying, probably not the ideal place to start.
08:20 AM DanSand: turnmycnc: Seems like I can simulate some generic step/dir motors, and then make so the HAL keeps track of where it is on the axis and outputs it at a regular rate and then I'd have the info. But yeah, like you guys are saying, probably not the ideal place to start.
08:21 AM turnmycnc: DanSand https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/gladevcp.html
08:26 AM turnmycnc: DanSand you first need to know if the RS485 is plain TTL or Modebus
08:28 AM turnmycnc: DanSand just google python read RS485
08:29 AM DanSand: turnmycnc: That's cool, thanks. It's a tough choice, as the linuxcnc ecosystem is so rich that even though an integration would be jury-rigged, having access to all those tools (like GladeVCP) would be a big benefit. Would be cool if someday the real-time stuff was separated so the rest of the ecosystem could work with models other than a
08:29 AM DanSand: centralized motion control.
08:29 AM DanSand: The RS485 interfaces through USB. It's not TTL voltages but it's not modbus protocol either.
08:30 AM turnmycnc: Full motion control while only need the Servo data is a bit of overshooting
08:30 AM turnmycnc: via USB so it is a UART
08:31 AM turnmycnc: ARDUINO got a CNC controll LIB
08:32 AM DanSand: turnmycnc: You mean physically overshooting? It's a bit kludgey for sure. The right way is to feed splines into the servo queues instead of positions but I'm rushing to get a machine working so want to do it a fast and sufficient but kludgey way. For our app it should be fine.
08:32 AM DanSand: Yeah, there's a UART.
08:32 AM turnmycnc: ZincBoy[CAON][m] How long did your compile take
08:33 AM turnmycnc: DanSand splines are simple point XYZ cordinates and then Metric or Steps or whatever the Xontroller takes
08:34 AM DanSand: By splines I mean algabreic curves that determine position
08:35 AM DanSand: (so that the position loop can get positions as quickly as possible)
08:36 AM turnmycnc: DanSand take a look here https://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G5-Cubic-Spline
08:38 AM DanSand: Yeah, I'm saying that by sending splines rather than positions the servos themselves can determine the position from the time at a higher time resolution that would be possible if just sending positions to the servo.
08:39 AM DanSand: It's the same as the gcode, except that the gcode splines are multi-axis while the ones I'm talking about would be per-motor.
08:40 AM jpa-: the usual setup is that you send speeds to servos, so that the positions can be synchronously tracked in one place (PC) to avoid any synchronization error between the axes
08:41 AM DanSand: jpa-: yeah, we're doing synchronization in a different way. Each servo knows the time and knows where it's supposed to be at a given time.
08:42 AM jpa-: DanSand: have you made some calculations about what the linear approximation error is at e.g. 1 kHz servo loop frequency for your use cases?
08:42 AM jpa-: my intuition would say that sending splines to servos adds a lot of complexity for very little benefit, after all it is easy to go to 10 kHz PC servo loop if needed
08:44 AM jpa-: centralized control also nicely solves the problem that you need to stop all axes if one of the servos fails to keep position due to mechanical problems
08:45 AM jpa-: i can see the point of advanced servos in some applications, but for use with linuxcnc it makes sense to run even advanced servos in simple velocity control & realtime position feedback mode
08:50 AM DanSand: jpa-: Haven't done the calculation for this application because it's pretty forgiving (slow moving glue dispensing) and we've used the servos enough already to have a feel that they'll be fine. But you may be right that 10kHz loop with a real-time host sending coordinates would be sufficient. The system still has a centralized controller that
08:50 AM DanSand: can issue estops. But I take your point, thank you.
08:50 AM turnmycnc: im off
08:51 AM jpa-: DanSand: yeah, typically even 1kHz servo loop can exceed mechanical performance
08:52 AM DanSand: Cool cool, thanks for the help everyone, was super useful.
08:52 AM jpa-: DanSand: i guess if you are limited to USB, you could benefit from sending timestamped coordinate packets and then somehow try to apply them always e.g. 10 ms after the timestamp - that would take care of the variable latency of USB communication
08:53 AM jpa-: it would mean that the position feedback shown in linuxcnc GUI would also lag by 10 ms, but that won't be noticeable. It would matter more if you have some probe sensors or other stuff that requires synchronization but isn't connected through your custom controller.
08:54 AM DanSand: The motors have crystals so the timing should stay pretty consistent if they all receive a "go" command at the same time, which they will since we're using a USB-RS485 adapter and all the servos are on the bus.
08:55 AM jpa-: (back when i was considering similar integration between LinuxCNC and an old robot arm with its own controller, i also got a lot of people saying that it is not possible - but nowadays i think it is perfectly possible to use LinuxCNC in this way, it just has some drawbacks and limitations)
08:55 AM jpa-: DanSand: even good crystals drift 5 ms per hour
08:56 AM jpa-: cheap crystals can drift 200 ms per hour
08:57 AM DanSand: jpa-: Yeah, but since the servos are on the same bus there's ways of adjusting the skew, at least so they stay in sync with each other even if they slow skew from absolute time.
08:57 AM jpa-: yeah
08:58 AM jpa-: you'd need a way to keep them in sync with the motion controller also, but i guess you can do the same with the timestamps received from PC (always try to keep e.g. 10 ms between the timestamp received and the actual time)
08:58 AM Loetmichel_: jpa-: i have a DAB radio clock here that shows about 3 minutes a DAY to fast when its hot... once a day when i switch on the radio part it corrects itself back 3 minutes plus
09:05 AM DanSand: What we're building is aimed at motion control novices rather than experts like you guys, but if you want to see what we're building check out: https://yorc.global/technology
09:05 AM DanSand: Happy to hear any feedback and please sign-up if you want to hear more about our progress. It's just me and my brother right now.
09:20 AM roycroft: but are you building spider robots?
09:25 AM DanSand: roycroft: nope :)
09:29 AM roycroft: those things are pretty creep
09:29 AM roycroft: y
09:31 AM * roycroft hopes nobody ever builds a linuxcnc-controlled spider robot
09:34 AM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Zincboy has a new goal 🙂
09:54 AM roycroft: you will put the "creep" in "CNC" if you do that
10:00 AM DanSand: Ah. Thought you meant spide-like multi-jointed moving robots
10:00 AM perry_j1987: you seen the syringe spider videos lately on the internet
10:00 AM perry_j1987: spiders move their legs with hydraulics
10:01 AM perry_j1987: so some college is taking syringes and poking into dead spiders and actuating their legs in and out to use as grippers lol
10:01 AM perry_j1987: necrorobotics they call it or something like that
10:15 AM roycroft: i call it creepy :)
10:37 AM * JT-Shop is waiting for the next jpl customer service person
10:38 AM JT-Shop: or maybe jpw
10:39 AM roycroft: i hope you have a refreshing beverage and a comfy chair to hang out in
10:39 AM JT-Shop: yup
11:00 AM perry_j1987: hmm thinking of getting a fly cutter
11:00 AM perry_j1987: think a fly cutter could take 1mm off the side of a bolt in one pass?
11:01 AM perry_j1987: to make a flat
11:04 AM CloudEvil: That rather depends on the bolt alloy and fixturing
11:14 AM roycroft: fly cutters are quite simple to make and can leave a very high quality finish
11:19 AM * JT-Shop has learned to not contact Jet customer support because they don't have any... call JPW and you get a new DRO
11:21 AM roycroft: hopefully your new dro will work
11:27 AM JT-Shop: I hope so, it's more accurate than a wixey and you can set it to board thickness after planing one
11:27 AM JT-Shop: the only knock is the dro is pretty low on the planer
11:28 AM roycroft: nice
11:28 AM roycroft: i wonder if it would work on mine
11:28 AM roycroft: i'm pretty happy with the wixey, but if there's a more accurate one i might be interested
11:29 AM roycroft: the wixey dro has been a game changer on my thicknesser - one of the best machine upgrades i've ever done
11:29 AM JT-Shop: yep, the wixey was a game changer on the delta too
11:34 AM JT-Shop2: Jet 708520 DRO resolution:0.01mm repeatability:0.01mm
11:36 AM roycroft: barry wixey told me that having that high resolution on a thicknesser dro will drive one crazy
11:36 AM roycroft: that the vibration of the machine will cause it to constantly change, and that is why he made his thicknesser dro granularity 0.005"
11:37 AM JT-Shop: I didn't see that at all
11:37 AM roycroft: i've not tried a higher resolution dro on mine, so i don't know about that first-hand
11:37 AM roycroft: perhaps barry has been using crappy thicknessers
11:38 AM JT-Shop: a lot of folks complain that the jet dro looses it's setting when you turn it off and I have a good chuckle because they didn't read the instructions
11:38 AM roycroft: i've only set my dro once on my thicknesser
11:38 AM roycroft: and it's still accurate to within 0.005"
11:39 AM roycroft: i generally make my boards a few thousandths overthickness anyway
11:39 AM roycroft: because sanding brings them down to size
12:07 PM roguish[m]: nonie
12:07 PM roguish[m]: oops, wrong window....
12:19 PM * coredump[m] uploaded an image: (30KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/HeuNeWYHWzWzxfVhuYxFgIbR/unknown.png >
12:19 PM coredump[m]: so my Mesa 7i96 is repaired and coming back, it was probably lightning damage, so quick psa that it has a grounding place
12:21 PM roycroft: nice
12:27 PM roycroft: not nice that it was damaged, but nice that you were able to get the fault diagnosed and the repair effected quickly
12:28 PM Tom_L: still a few places that have stellar customer service
12:28 PM coredump[m]: yeah it arrived there yesterday and apparently is already fixed and being shipped back
12:28 PM coredump[m]: now I just want to buy more stuff from them, even if I don't exactly need anything really lol
12:29 PM coredump[m]: I actually don't think my 7i96 can use other daughter boards, apparently there's a S model that supports serial things
12:30 PM Tom_L: it has a 26 pin header doesn't it?
12:30 PM Tom_L: the S model is Spindle among other additions
12:30 PM Tom_L: and most will support sserial
12:31 PM * coredump[m] uploaded an image: (14KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/owBlDFuqpiaKXvtykQJkWVkE/unknown.png >
12:31 PM coredump[m]: this, probably?
12:31 PM Tom_L: yes
12:31 PM Tom_L: any 25 pin daughter card
12:32 PM coredump[m]: ok so what is the S difference then? is it the analog spindle output?
12:33 PM Tom_L: yes
12:33 PM Tom_L: https://mesaus.com/product-category/db25-pin-cards/
12:33 PM coredump[m]: ah, noice
12:33 PM Tom_L: but has alot of other additional features
12:34 PM Tom_L: if you dl the mesact tool you will have all the docs right in front of your nose
12:35 PM Tom_L: https://www.gnipsel.com/mesa/mesact/index.html
12:35 PM coredump[m]: that's not the same one that is used to flash firmware/change eeprom ip address, right?
12:35 PM coredump[m]: ah ok
12:35 PM Tom_L: no but that tool is linked to it
12:35 PM Tom_L: that would be mesaflash
12:36 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/mesaflash
12:36 PM Tom_L: if it's not already installed on your pc
12:36 PM Tom_L: git clone and make install
12:36 PM Tom_L: after adding 2 dependencies
12:37 PM coredump[m]: it is, I think it comes with the linuxcnc distro things
12:37 PM Tom_L: usually
12:37 PM Tom_L: you need 3.4.3
12:37 PM coredump[m]: thanks I will take a look when the card is back
12:39 PM JT-Shop: coredump[m], a 7i96 has one smart serial port and one daughter card port
12:40 PM Tom_L: picked up a couple spare drives today
12:40 PM JT-Shop: 7i96 does not need mesaflash 3.4.3 only the 7i96S
12:40 PM JT-Shop: I have a handful arriving sunday
12:41 PM Tom_L: right on the 3.4.3 but you may as well keep up to date :)
12:42 PM JT-Shop: yep 3.4.3 has more features so it's better
12:44 PM Tom_L: although i keep an old version around for wheezy in case i ever need to update something there
12:47 PM JT-Shop: in my spare time I'm making a configuration for the BP with mesact
12:48 PM JT-Shop: but first time to play with the CHNC and try to remember how I set the threading tool
12:48 PM coredump[m]: I wonder if someone even make encoders for those chinese spindles
12:48 PM roycroft: that someone could be you :)
12:55 PM coredump[m]: bahahaha
12:55 PM coredump[m]: I mean, yeah, but would I trust it? lol
12:55 PM Tom_L: why not?
01:02 PM coredump[m]: I am an idiot, I totally thought the encoder would be necessarily stuck to the front of the spindle
01:21 PM roycroft: you can stick it wherever you can measure rotation
01:22 PM roycroft: it's almost going to be uk hot here today!
01:22 PM andypugh: 38K ?
01:22 PM roycroft: that would be rather uncomfortable, i should think
01:23 PM andypugh: ~We had a single day of hot, it’s been OK since.
01:23 PM roycroft: even more than 38c
01:23 PM pere: here it is more 17C, luckily. :)
01:23 PM roycroft: we've had a solid week in the upper 30s
01:23 PM roycroft: we haven't hit 40 this year (yet)
01:24 PM andypugh: I think that 38K would be briefly uncomfortable. Coldest I have tried to operate in is 227K (-46C)
01:24 PM roycroft: at 38k i'd be concerned about machinery being too brittle to operate without breaking
01:24 PM roycroft: and your way oil would be rather solid
01:25 PM roycroft: mist cooling would be right out
01:25 PM roycroft: unless you're cooling with liquid nitrogen or something similar
01:27 PM andypugh: Melting point of nitrogen is 63K.
01:27 PM roycroft: yes, so it would be fine to use as a coolant at 38K
01:27 PM andypugh: At 38K there wouldn’t be any gaseous atmosphere to breathe. Not that you would want to.
01:27 PM roycroft: oh, not quite
01:30 PM roycroft: it appears that neon is the only element that would be a liquid at close to 38K
01:30 PM roycroft: but even there, not quite
01:31 PM roycroft: melting point is 24.56K, boiling point 27.104K
01:32 PM roycroft: helium and hydrogen being the only elements with a lower melting point than neon
01:32 PM * roycroft decides not to hang out in a 38K environment, even for a moment
01:36 PM JT-Shop: WOW the CHNC coolant tank is filthy
01:37 PM roycroft: where are your grandchildren?
01:38 PM roycroft: isn't it their job to do that kind of cleaning?
01:38 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, you should get on your maintenance dept about that
01:38 PM Tom_L: well at least the 2 & 4yr olds are gone for the weekend
01:39 PM Tom_L: i never knew so much noise could come in such a small package
01:42 PM JT-Shop: he's never around to do maintenance!
01:43 PM JT-Shop: LOL
01:46 PM roycroft: maybe your boss should fire the maintenance guy and hire a new one
01:49 PM JT-Shop: he is a nice guy and gave me a 4 1/2 day weekend
01:57 PM XXCoder: roycroft: someone suggested https://llldmax.com/ but eh they even sell same colors as gst3d.
01:58 PM XXCoder: uncertain
01:58 PM turnmycnc: hi why is gmoccapy so slow on respond
01:58 PM turnmycnc: it trakes up to 10sec to hit a button
01:58 PM turnmycnc: is this the RAM of the PC legging as of 2GB
01:58 PM turnmycnc: maybe the Intel Core
01:59 PM turnmycnc: the Axis is mutch faster
01:59 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have no issues with speed using gmoccapy. no difference between axis and gmoccapy on my setup.
02:00 PM roycroft: 2GB is not a lot of ram in a modern computer, though
02:00 PM turnmycnc: ZincBoy[CAON][m] what hardware are you using
02:00 PM roycroft: check to see if you are swapping
02:00 PM XXCoder: roy heck even roll types is same. I dont think ill be buying from them probably
02:01 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: A hp8300. 2ghz i5/16g memory/ssd
02:01 PM roycroft: maybe gst3d are rebranding themselves
02:01 PM turnmycnc: roycroft meaning SWAP file
02:01 PM roycroft: or preparing to declare bankruptcy
02:01 PM roycroft: you can use various tools to see where your performance bottleneck lies
02:02 PM roycroft: top, vmstat, iostat, netstat, etc.
02:03 PM turnmycnc: how can top see the bottleneck
02:03 PM roycroft: have you ever used top?
02:03 PM turnmycnc: just of memuse
02:03 PM XXCoder: roy or they both is reseller from other or third source
02:03 PM roycroft: it will show you the load average, cpu usage, memory usage
02:03 PM roycroft: it would be a good start
02:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I am running a 2.3g used memory on my system right now but that is with eclipse, firefox, and gmoccapy in sim mode. 2g might be tight
02:04 PM roycroft: since i don't know what your bottleneck is i can't tell you precisely what tool use to confirm it
02:04 PM roycroft: i'm just suggesting a few things you can look at
02:05 PM turnmycnc: Thank you
02:05 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Also what window manager are you running? Some of them are a bit more memory heavy. I use xfce since I don't need anything fancy
02:05 PM turnmycnc: xfce
02:05 PM roycroft: xxcoder: while the price of atomic filament is high, i'm able to print continuously now, without any spoilage
02:06 PM turnmycnc: as a frech install from a iso it shoud be very clear
02:06 PM XXCoder: think only few uses less memory than xfce. mate possibly one of em? memory sucks
02:06 PM roycroft: i am making significant progress on my boxes
02:06 PM XXCoder: roy indeed.
02:06 PM roycroft: that justifies the high cost of the filament in my mind
02:06 PM turnmycnc: roycroft 3D filament is getting more and more expenciv from the past
02:06 PM roycroft: i don't regret my detour down the bargain filament path
02:07 PM turnmycnc: so far used » 30kg this year
02:07 PM roycroft: but i'm happier than ever to be back on the straight and narrow path of quality
02:07 PM turnmycnc: 5Anet A8 in school
02:07 PM roycroft: i've bought 20+kg in the last month
02:07 PM XXCoder: turnmycnc: I wonder if you can remove more stuff from linux thats installed and run by default
02:07 PM roycroft: i have a decent size project
02:07 PM roycroft: normally i won't go through this much filament
02:07 PM roycroft: but right now i need to be printing 24/7
02:07 PM roycroft: and will need to be doing that for another month or so
02:08 PM turnmycnc: maliong most Gears and Fance caracters with the "kids"
02:08 PM roycroft: i'm going through a kg of filament every 36 hours or so
02:08 PM turnmycnc: cool what Printer
02:08 PM roycroft: just an ender5
02:08 PM roycroft: with a volcano hot end and a 0.8mm nozzle at the moment
02:09 PM turnmycnc: ender5 is more then a simple 60USD printer
02:09 PM turnmycnc: yes 0,8 eats up filament
02:09 PM roycroft: i don't recall saying it was a simple US$60 printer
02:09 PM roycroft: i need to print fast
02:10 PM turnmycnc: in privat education money is always a factor
02:10 PM roycroft: and i'm printing boxes for hardware storage in my shop
02:10 PM roycroft: i do not need a high quality finish
02:10 PM roycroft: i need fast and functional
02:10 PM turnmycnc: cheeper to print then to buy
02:10 PM roycroft: i have to print over 1000 of them
02:10 PM roycroft: not really, but nobody makes what i need
02:10 PM turnmycnc: roy do you got a image
02:10 PM XXCoder: .8 noizzle is smart honestly because it really cuts print down hard
02:11 PM roycroft: if i felt like going into the injection molding business i think i could make good money making and selling what i'm printing
02:11 PM turnmycnc: roycroft only one wall
02:11 PM roycroft: turnmycnc: my old fastener storage is this:
02:11 PM XXCoder: you might want to try slice using cura 5 or prusaslicer 2.5 which has archae slicer, if not already. could cut print time pretty hard
02:11 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/01_Old_Fastener_Storage.jpeg
02:11 PM roycroft: i built these cabinets to replace that storage:
02:12 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/32_Tag_Holders_1.jpeg
02:12 PM roycroft: i'm printing boxes like this:
02:12 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/24_Fastener_Drawer.jpeg
02:12 PM turnmycnc: in transparency clear filament also
02:12 PM roycroft: that's the base sizse
02:12 PM roycroft: i am also printing boxes in multiples of that base size, so they all nest nicely
02:13 PM turnmycnc: lots of storiges you got
02:13 PM roycroft: i have lots of fasteners
02:13 PM roycroft: the top two drawers in every one of those cabinets is for storing tools
02:13 PM roycroft: the lower drawers in the left two are for fasteners
02:13 PM travis_farmer[m]: how fascinating... 😉
02:13 PM roycroft: the lower drawers in the middle cabinet are for abrasives
02:14 PM roycroft: and the two right cabinets store my festool tools in their systainers
02:14 PM roycroft: two systainers deep in each tray
02:15 PM turnmycnc: thats what i did with the Kids in one School year https://www.thingiverse.com/make:1029795
02:16 PM turnmycnc: let me reconecct from a Education PC here to see some speed
02:17 PM roycroft: the fastener cabinets can hold 2880 of the base size boxes
02:17 PM roycroft: i'll be printing around 1000 boxes initially
02:17 PM * JT-Shop thinks roycroft is obsessed with fasteners
02:17 PM roycroft: and i can average 25 or so per day
02:17 PM roycroft: i'm not obsessed with fasteners, per se
02:18 PM roycroft: i just have a lot
02:18 PM roycroft: i'm obsessed with organizing them
02:18 PM roycroft: so that 1. i can actually find them, 2. they're not consuming space all over the place, and 3. i'm not constantly ordering new fasteners because i can't find the ones i already have
02:18 PM JT-Shop: I build machines and don't have that many fasteners, only one wall 4' x 6' x 2'
02:19 PM roycroft: i have far more than i need to stock
02:19 PM roycroft: but until they're organized i won't know what i should be getting rid of
02:20 PM roycroft: my hope is that eventually i can repurpose some of the fastener drawers for other things
02:21 PM roycroft: i do admit i have a hard time purging fasteners
02:21 PM roycroft: and i often should - as an example, i needed some distorted thread flange nuts a while back
02:21 PM roycroft: i needed two, but i had to purchase 10
02:21 PM roycroft: so now i have 8 of those left over
02:21 PM roycroft: i'll probably never need them again
02:22 PM roycroft: but if i get rid of them, and some day i find i do need another one or two, i'll have to purchase 10 more
02:22 PM roycroft: so i keep them
02:22 PM turnmycnc: andypugh are you on
02:22 PM andypugh: Unusually, yes.
02:22 PM roycroft: and a lot of my fastners are oddball things like that
02:23 PM turnmycnc: andypugh im in germany trying to get your lathemacros gmoccapy to work for over 1 week
02:23 PM turnmycnc: the macros work itself but not on gmoccapy
02:23 PM andypugh: Are you using the latest version?
02:23 PM roycroft: i also hate having to run to the hardware store or placing an order with mcmaster and waiting a few days for a couple fasteners, when i can just reach up on the wall and grab what i need
02:23 PM * JT-Shop takes his BOW for a quick look before getting ready to leave
02:24 PM turnmycnc: andypugh compiling today
02:24 PM turnmycnc: from the git
02:24 PM turnmycnc: on debian 10 and linuxcnc 2.9
02:24 PM andypugh: Does the sample config work?
02:24 PM turnmycnc: no
02:25 PM turnmycnc: it simply stall
02:25 PM andypugh: sim/gmoccapy/lathe_configs/macros
02:25 PM XXCoder: hey andy'
02:25 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: @roycoft I used to be like that for electronics components. I finally have broken myself of the habit of holding on to all those left over tapes with 8 smt resistors in it. Now I stock the basics and just buy for specific projects.
02:26 PM andypugh: turnmycnc: If you start linuxcnc from the command-line, is there any useful debug info?
02:26 PM turnmycnc: andypugh a git checkout got new lathe macros
02:26 PM turnmycnc: let me see
02:27 PM turnmycnc: is the new files also in the newest buildbot
02:28 PM turnmycnc: andypugh im not that programmer and not that git man
02:28 PM turnmycnc: so i did from linuxcnc-dev folder git checkout
02:28 PM turnmycnc: that loaded the new files
02:28 PM andypugh: I have just kicked off a build here with the latest 2.9. I will see if that works, but it will take a few minutes.
02:29 PM turnmycnc: andypugh how do i do the new build
02:29 PM turnmycnc: simply make
02:29 PM andypugh: Whch branch did you check out?
02:29 PM andypugh: Presumably master?
02:29 PM turnmycnc: 'origin/master'.
02:29 PM andypugh: Try this:
02:30 PM andypugh: cd linuxcnc-dev
02:30 PM andypugh: ./debian/configure
02:30 PM andypugh: dpkg-checkbuilddeps
02:30 PM turnmycnc: configured for 'uspace-Debian-10'.
02:31 PM turnmycnc: all debs inside
02:31 PM turnmycnc: and now make
02:31 PM turnmycnc: or make clear bevore
02:32 PM andypugh: Ah, if you are building from source…
02:32 PM turnmycnc: drom inside src
02:33 PM andypugh: don’t forget . ../scripts/rip-environment
02:33 PM andypugh: (that really is dot space dot dot slash)
02:33 PM andypugh: Then start linuxcnc with the command “linucnc”
02:34 PM turnmycnc: dont i need to recompile
02:35 PM turnmycnc: as only files have changed
02:36 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, I really like the BOW and I'm glad I got the kit
02:37 PM XXCoder: BOW?
02:38 PM roycroft: a "feather board" for the bandsaw
02:38 PM roycroft: and yeah, it's a great product
02:38 PM XXCoder: ahh thats cool
02:39 PM turnmycnc: andypugh you know that the gladevcp command got chanded from 2.9
02:39 PM roycroft: https://www.woodcraft.com/products/guidepro-featherboard
02:39 PM turnmycnc: halcmd loadusr -Wn gladevcp gladevcp -c gladevcp -U notouch=1 -U norun=0 -u lathehandler.py -x {XID} lathemacro.ui
02:39 PM roycroft: and i assume you did need the anchor bar for it, jt-shop
02:40 PM andypugh: turnmycnc: OK, after a bit of a false start, it seems to work here.
02:41 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: still having issues compiling?
02:41 PM JT-Shop: no, the oval part is movable but I like the anchor bar better
02:41 PM andypugh: turnmycnc: start linuxcnc from the command-line, and be _very_ sure that you start the sample-configs / sim / gmoccapy / lathe_configs / lathe_macros config
02:42 PM turnmycnc: now https://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/gmoccapy.html#fig:gmoccapy_emb_tab_locations
02:42 PM andypugh: _Not_ any of the ones that exist in your own linuxcnc/configs folder
02:43 PM turnmycnc: EMBED_TAB_COMMAND = gladevcp -c gladevcp -U notouch=0 -U norun=0 -u lathehandler.py -x {XID} lathemacro.ui
02:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how do you go about developing a multi axis synchronized motion system and then look for a graphical front end and be unaware of LCNC?
02:43 PM turnmycnc: yes i did remove the folder from config
02:44 PM JT-Shop: WOW gmoccapy hurts your eyes... I almost went blind when it loaded
02:44 PM andypugh: EMBED_TAB_COMMAND = halcmd loadusr -Wn gladevcp gladevcp -c gladevcp -U notouch=1 -U norun=0 -u lathehandler.py -x {XID} lathemacro.ui
02:44 PM andypugh: Definitely works for me…
02:45 PM turnmycnc: im not getting it to run https://dpaste.org/7M3R5
02:46 PM turnmycnc: this is the last error
02:46 PM JT-Shop: andypugh, nice graphics on the cycles
02:46 PM memfrob: andypugh, the error is gone now!
02:46 PM JT-Shop: the spinboxes are a bit small...
02:47 PM andypugh: JT-Shop: I think it depends on the theme?
02:47 PM JT-Shop: ah I had to go full screen
02:47 PM memfrob: Just need to make it permanent, export TCLLIBPATH="/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc" fixes it, your email gave me an idea!
02:47 PM JT-Shop: very nice even though I use ngcgui and Axis
02:48 PM andypugh: JT-Shop: The macros work in Axis too, and you can use them alongside ngcgui
02:49 PM turnmycnc: nit here
02:49 PM andypugh: turnmycnc: Can you try with my EMBED_TAB_COMMAND and paste everything from “linuxcnc” onwards
02:50 PM turnmycnc: therfore i need to edit your lathe_macros inside the linuxcnc-dev ?
02:51 PM turnmycnc: or getting the Macros inside my own Config folder
02:51 PM turnmycnc: and stating with the rip invirerment linuxcnc
02:52 PM andypugh: turnmycnc: Well, that was a direct paste from the sample configs folder, but you showed something else?
02:54 PM andypugh: So, no, don’t change anything, just load the config folder and paste all the output somewhere that I can see it.
02:56 PM turnmycnc: ./scripts/rip-environment linuxcnc /home/cnc/Dokumente/linuxcnc-dev/linuxcnc-dev/configs/sim/gmoccapy/lathe_configs/lathe_macros.ini
02:57 PM turnmycnc: shoudt i set the debugg mode
02:57 PM andypugh: You might finf linuxnc -l more convenient (re-load the last-used config)
02:58 PM andypugh: And it is dot space dot slash for the rip-environment, that makes the rip config sticky in your current command window
02:58 PM turnmycnc: no way stalling at the same error
03:00 PM andypugh: So, please paste the complete output?
03:00 PM andypugh: (where you pasted it before)
03:00 PM turnmycnc: . ./scripts/rip-environment linuxcnc /home/cnc/Dokumente/linuxcnc-dev/linuxcnc-dev/configs/sim/gmoccapy/lathe_configs/lathe_macros.ini
03:01 PM andypugh: No, not the command line, the output from the terminal
03:03 PM turnmycnc: points still running it takes ages to load
03:04 PM turnmycnc: lets give it 1minute
03:04 PM JT-Shop: andypugh, cool
03:04 PM turnmycnc: pointer break at 69206019
03:05 PM andypugh: Which OS and version?
03:06 PM andypugh: (and please, put _all_ the output on dpaste. That’s the third time I have asked, and I do have other things to be doing)
03:08 PM turnmycnc: its a frech install 4days ago Debian10 linuxcnc buildbot 2.9 master
03:08 PM turnmycnc: https://dpaste.org/GuG3i
03:09 PM turnmycnc: maybe just a memleek here
03:10 PM turnmycnc: MiB Swap: 3814,0 total, 3813,7 free, 0,3 used. 999,0 avail Mem
03:10 PM turnmycnc: let me start again and check
03:11 PM turnmycnc: MiB Mem : 1866,4 total, 19,1 free, 1135,5 used, 711,9 buff/cache
03:13 PM andypugh: There is a _lot_ going in there.
03:14 PM andypugh: Can you check that a config _without_ the lathe macros works?
03:15 PM andypugh: There’s a bunch of stuff like “**** GMOCCAPY INFO ****
03:15 PM andypugh: File i_am_lost.ngc of the macro ['i_am_lost'] could not be found ****
03:15 PM andypugh: we searched in subdirectories: ['macros', './']
03:15 PM turnmycnc: yes
03:15 PM andypugh: “ In there.
03:16 PM turnmycnc: this are the MDI macos
03:17 PM turnmycnc: andypugh the AXIs and touchy work
03:17 PM andypugh: Yes, but does Gmoccapy (some other lathe config, not the macros one) work?
03:17 PM turnmycnc: and the buildbot version of 7130 also workes as i did install 4PC bevore and there it workes
03:18 PM turnmycnc: Andy lathe.ini workes
03:20 PM andypugh: The log shows a keyboard interrupt, is that because you are breaking out?
03:20 PM turnmycnc: lathe_c.ini loading
03:21 PM turnmycnc: yes CTRL+C
03:21 PM turnmycnc: on the out break Gmoccapy comes up with the termination window
03:22 PM turnmycnc: lathe_C.ini fails
03:23 PM turnmycnc: signal.default_int_handler(signal.SIGINT, None)
03:23 PM turnmycnc: "/home/cnc/Dokumente/linuxcnc-dev/linuxcnc-dev/bin/gmoccapy", line 5785, in <module>
03:23 PM turnmycnc: its always the same fault
03:24 PM turnmycnc: coudt this be Graphic related
03:24 PM turnmycnc: radon modeset 0
03:25 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: turnmycnc, you were mentioning that gmoccapy buttons were taking 10+ seconds to execute. I suspect there is something not right with your hardware if this is the case. It should not be that slow on any system that would be useful to run linuxcnc on.
03:26 PM turnmycnc: DMI: FUJITSU SIEMENS D2451-A2
03:27 PM ziper3: what do you call a nut that is particularly thin relative to its diameter?
03:27 PM roycroft: a jam nut
03:28 PM roycroft: and a lot of other people call it that too
03:28 PM roycroft: some call it a low profile nut
03:28 PM andypugh: ziper3: Or half-nut
03:28 PM roycroft: some call it a "thin hex nut"
03:29 PM roycroft: and yes, some call it half-nut
03:29 PM roycroft: but as i have some involvement with engine lathes, i try not to use that term for thin nuts
03:29 PM andypugh: Half nuts are not _particularly_ thin. Just, well, jalf as thin as normal.
03:30 PM andypugh: The really thin ones (like used for mounting potentiometers) might have a different name
03:31 PM roycroft: so we've given you many choices
03:31 PM ziper3: I think I found it
03:31 PM ziper3: panel nut
03:31 PM roycroft: which one do you like?
03:31 PM ziper3: which is what andy just mentioned, for mounting things
03:31 PM roycroft: panel nuts are what andypugh just mentioned
03:31 PM andypugh: Yeah, panel nut sounds right for potentiometers and suchlike
03:31 PM ziper3: yeah
03:32 PM turnmycnc: Q on all where can i find informations on this motherboard what RAM it takes
03:32 PM ziper3: thanks guys
03:32 PM turnmycnc: My problem is that i got 15 CNC SIm places to be Run but not enoph of the same PC
03:33 PM andypugh: turnmycnc: You could try changing “DISPLAY = “ to touchy
03:33 PM andypugh: Touchy does not use OpenGL.
03:33 PM roycroft: usually from the system board manufacturer's website, turnmycnc
03:33 PM turnmycnc: axis workes
03:34 PM andypugh: Thouhg, that doesn’t really fit with Gmoccapy working without the macros.
03:34 PM andypugh: turnmycnc: Axis works with the macros ?
03:34 PM memfrob: Ah, ./configure --docdir is not honored, it's still installing things to /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc instead of /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc-9999-r2
03:34 PM roycroft: the axis were actually defeated
03:35 PM memfrob: Somehow this even failed: find "${where_linuxcnc_source_is}" -type f -exec sed -i "s#/share/doc/linuxcnc/#/share/doc/linuxcnc-9999-r2/#g" "{}" \;
03:36 PM memfrob: All of the hard-coded lines were changed except some phantom one
03:36 PM andypugh: turnmycnc: Can you raise this question on the LinuxCNC forum Gmoccapy section? (inclding the dpaste link) Possibly Norbert might see something that I am not seeing.
03:36 PM turnmycnc: andypugh yes up and running all is there
03:37 PM andypugh: Use Axis? It’s not terrible…
03:37 PM turnmycnc: i did so this afternoon
03:37 PM andypugh: At least you can make parts that way.
03:37 PM turnmycnc: no pats needed
03:38 PM turnmycnc: but every student shoudt have the same gui
03:38 PM andypugh: I don’t know what the coolest, newest UI is now. Probe-Basic is popular. Or QTDragon.
03:38 PM * roycroft is boring, and likes axis and touchy
03:39 PM turnmycnc: will it run on qt_dragon
03:39 PM turnmycnc: ok its neet midnight got to go
03:39 PM roycroft: if you have a mish-mash of machines and want the ui to be the same on all of them then my recommendation would be to stick with something simple
03:39 PM XXCoder: i want to design a ui using qtvcpsomething for fun evenually
03:40 PM andypugh: Yeah, I have settled on Touchy. I like the philosophy that only physical buttons cause movement (except homing, and I see that as a bug that should be fixed)
03:40 PM XXCoder: andy how about stoppage thereof? like e-stop? me, id have as many ways to stop machine in case
03:40 PM roycroft: estops should be physical and plentiful
03:41 PM andypugh: XXCoder: Yes, onscreen machine-off works, but shouldn’t be the one you rely on.
03:41 PM turnmycnc: andypugh here is the forumpost https://forum.linuxcnc.org/gmoccapy/46525-lathe-macros-not-starting-in-gmoccapy-since-2-9-pre7130
03:42 PM XXCoder: yeah id not depend solely on that. e-stop button is better anyway as it can be wired to cut off stuff like spindle
03:42 PM roycroft: i would argue that it shouldn't even be there
03:42 PM XXCoder: reardless if pc crashes or not
03:42 PM turnmycnc: i am off thank you all for the hrlp
03:42 PM turnmycnc: help
03:42 PM andypugh: turnmycnc: Norbert is in Germany too (Gmoccapy author)
03:42 PM roycroft: if whatever is causing you to panic is affecting the control computer then you're wasting precious time even trying the on-screen e-stop
03:42 PM roycroft: you need a big button attached to the screen that you can mash
03:47 PM XXCoder: agreed
03:47 PM XXCoder: I was quite nervious when I ran lathe. only way to stop was by "esc" on keyboard
03:48 PM XXCoder: dammit I meant cnc router. wtf why I said lathe
03:48 PM Tom_L: maybe that was the other you
03:48 PM XXCoder: lol. hey tom you resolved that issue?
03:48 PM Tom_L: what issue? lunch?
03:48 PM Tom_L: yes just finished
03:48 PM XXCoder: compiling?
03:48 PM Tom_L: at 4pm
03:49 PM Tom_L: no i haven't been back to it
03:49 PM Tom_L: picked up some more drives to test os on
03:49 PM XXCoder: cool
03:50 PM Tom_L: may as well have a garden variety on hand
03:53 PM Tom_L: you see jt's new pages?
03:55 PM XXCoder: no?
03:55 PM Tom_L: https://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/index.html
03:55 PM memfrob: Thank you andypugh! https://github.com/NTULINUX/ntu_overlay/commit/a396ce3b87d5dcb9c67d56a53cfac17a0941a85e
03:55 PM memfrob: LinuxCNC now starts consistently on Gentoo
03:56 PM andypugh: I guess .desktops are very debian?
03:57 PM XXCoder: tom I see that xset step is added now
03:57 PM memfrob: Yeah LinuxCNC shows up in Accessories lol
03:57 PM memfrob: (on Gentoo)
03:57 PM XXCoder: erm was added (not "now" since never seen page before)
03:57 PM andypugh: Or is that just a documentation thing because Gentoo compresses them?
03:57 PM memfrob: No no, the compression thing is handled now
03:58 PM XXCoder: tom whats funny is that I recent learned how to use cron, in order to dim and remove most blue after 11 pm
03:58 PM XXCoder: I plan to change to 10 pm soonish. it certainly helps so I get tired and go to sleep earlier
03:58 PM memfrob: All the configs work and LinuxCNC starts fine, the icons show up in Accessories, and the linuxcnc docs install to /usr/share/doc/linuxcnc instead of listening to --docdir
03:59 PM memfrob: --docdir is practically useless
03:59 PM XXCoder: roycroft: bit of update. seems they buy same rolls but they make their own filaments
03:59 PM roycroft: ok
03:59 PM roycroft: well if you buy some let me know how it works out
04:00 PM XXCoder: sure. doubt i will anytime soon, have bit too many filaments atm
04:00 PM andypugh: afk
04:00 PM roycroft: although at this point i've bought the majority of the filament i need for this big project
04:00 PM roycroft: and when i'm doing small, one-off things, i don't mind the cost of atomic at all
04:00 PM XXCoder: indeed
04:01 PM Tom_L: it's cheap no matter what compared to the problems you had
04:01 PM roycroft: i haven't checked in a few days to see if gst3d every issued the refund they said they did
04:01 PM roycroft: that's what i think, tom_l
04:01 PM XXCoder: yeah
04:01 PM roycroft: $10/kg filament with 90% spoils is $100/kg filament that takes 10x as long to print
04:02 PM roycroft: still no refund
04:03 PM roycroft: and damn me! i know how to do arithmetic!
04:03 PM XXCoder: youre smarter than average kid ;)
04:04 PM Tom_L: dum de dum dum dum
04:04 PM XXCoder: caja-open-terminal interesting
04:04 PM XXCoder: fle browser that has term in it
04:05 PM XXCoder: does folder location bar at top turn into editable text when clicked?
04:05 PM roguish[m]: XXCoder: that's a good one. i use it frequently
04:05 PM XXCoder: I hate file browsers that doesnt have text editable location bar
04:05 PM roguish[m]: the cmd is in a right click menu
04:06 PM XXCoder: yeah thundr has right click context start term here
04:06 PM XXCoder: it doesnt go to correct working directory but yeah
04:08 PM memfrob: pcmanfm-qt is misleading because initially it's buttons, but if you click to the right of them, it becomes a text bar
04:08 PM XXCoder: same for thundr
04:09 PM memfrob: you mean thunar?
04:09 PM XXCoder: yeah lol
04:10 PM XXCoder: trying caja out
04:11 PM XXCoder: caja file explorer errors out "failed to execute command "caja" lol. lemme install that also
04:11 PM XXCoder: hmm mate libs needed dont really want to install that
04:12 PM memfrob: A lot of people like dolphins
04:14 PM XXCoder: "Sphinx is written in Python and supports Python 3.7+. It builds upon the shoulders of many third-party libraries such as Docutils and Jinja, which are installed when Sphinx is installed."
04:14 PM XXCoder: lol it doesnt even say what its for
04:15 PM XXCoder: finally found homepage for it. "Sphinx makes it easy to create intelligent and beautiful documentation."
04:15 PM XXCoder: JT-Shop: might want to add what programs is for summary for each of 3 programs. https://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/debian-software.html
04:16 PM XXCoder: otherwise very nice, once complete (few blank pages)
04:20 PM memfrob: Well LinuxCNC works on Gentoo now via package manager, few minor bugs and some checks to add but it's good enough for now.
04:20 PM XXCoder: congats
04:21 PM memfrob: andypugh is awesome :D
04:21 PM XXCoder: that andy is
04:26 PM roycroft: grr
04:26 PM roycroft: i have to go to tree products hardwoods after work to get a walnut board
04:27 PM roycroft: and i need to drive my van, which does not have working a/c
04:27 PM XXCoder: careful, wood might get on fire on way home
04:27 PM roycroft: it could!
04:27 PM roycroft: fortunately it's a short drive
04:27 PM XXCoder: bring a bottle of iced water with you, pour on yourself for on way home
04:27 PM roycroft: but i bet the van is over 50 degrees right now on the interior
04:28 PM XXCoder: roy just be glad its not my car
04:28 PM roycroft: i'm going to have to put on some long pants
04:28 PM roycroft: othewise my legs would burn when i sat down on the seat
04:28 PM XXCoder: black car, black interior. I open all doors for a minute each time I drive somewhere
04:28 PM roycroft: my prius has a/c and it works fine
04:28 PM roycroft: maybe i'll drive the prius
04:28 PM roycroft: now that i think about it, the roof rack is still onit
04:28 PM XXCoder: otherwise it IS possible to die in my car while AC is chanking up
04:28 PM roycroft: and it's just one board
04:29 PM roycroft: if i drive the prius i'll probably start it up and let it run for 5 minutes before i get in and go
04:29 PM roycroft: that's enough time for the a/c to kick in and cool it down a bit
04:29 PM roycroft: and that's starting to sound like a good idea
04:30 PM roycroft: i also need to go to harbor freight at some point soon, and if i'm the prius i could just swing by there first
04:30 PM XXCoder: yeah seems worth 5 min idle
04:30 PM XXCoder: when you are the prius? ;)
04:31 PM roycroft: especially in a prius that gets 50mpg
04:31 PM roycroft: if it were a dodge ram i would go through quite a bit of fuel in that 5 minutes
04:34 PM XXCoder: well if it fits in or on top of car as well as use that
04:41 PM * roycroft prefers not to drive while inside an oven
04:42 PM XXCoder: oven is cool compared to my car during peak hours lol
04:42 PM XXCoder: when I had a job, in summers I used to always open all 4 doors wait for a minute with it idling with air at full blast
04:43 PM XXCoder: and its still extremely hot afterwards but not deadly hot
04:43 PM XXCoder: only had to go right away one time, and I felt sick hot in very short time, even with all 4 windows down and air going at full
04:44 PM XXCoder: I have no doubt I can cook hotdogs and whatever in my car now
04:46 PM roycroft: it is 37 here right now, and we usually reach our peak temperature for the day around 5pm this time of year
04:47 PM roycroft: so i have no doubt we'll get to 38, and perhaps even 39
04:48 PM XXCoder: 34c here currently
04:52 PM roycroft: we usually get a bit hotter than you do
04:53 PM roycroft: you have the sound right next door to help mitigate the heat
04:53 PM roycroft: i'm in a valley between two mountain ranges
04:53 PM roycroft: not to mention quite a bit south of you
04:58 PM XXCoder: tacoma does have sound, but also often under heat dome
04:58 PM XXCoder: not this time it looks like but yah
04:59 PM roycroft: yeah, you do get a bit warmer than seattle much of the time
05:00 PM andypugh: The cars I work on let you start the engine and the aircon with your phone 5 minutes bedore you set off. I can see the usefulness.
05:01 PM XXCoder: roy dome sucks during smokey hellscope season :( its coming. I should build fan filter soon to keep house air clean
05:16 PM Tom_L: bullseye, lights not lit on the 2nd network card for the mesa card
05:16 PM Tom_L: lights on the nic not the mesa card
05:17 PM Tom_L: set the static ip like i did in 10
05:22 PM Tom_L: ip a shows it as down
05:22 PM Tom_L: both are realtek
05:32 PM Tom_L: ok nevermind
05:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i got a gummy eraser earlier, it's like Silly Putty, I wanted to test its lifting ability and not a shred of newsprint or comic book in the house
05:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it used to be full of them
05:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: where do they still sell newspapers?
05:35 PM perry_j1987: old folks homes :P
05:36 PM Tom_L: damn card wasn't seating right
05:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: went to an art supply to get gum rubber erasers, nobody under 50 knew what they were
05:37 PM Tom_L: something odd is going on
05:38 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight[m]: here winco has some magazines and newspapers
05:38 PM XXCoder: dont see em anywhere else anymore
05:38 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], show them an analog watch and ask what time it is
05:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: xxcoder https://www.wincofoods.com/
05:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we don't have those here
05:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: hah or a rotary phone
05:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe somebody should make the Rolex of digital watches for the young and dumb
05:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: then again Apple iwatch
05:41 PM Tom_L: how much current do ssd require?
05:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not much
05:41 PM Tom_L: this is odd
05:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: have size in mind?
05:42 PM Tom_L: just trying to determine why this card keeps going dead
05:42 PM Tom_L: the lights come on on boot then they go out on the nic
05:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: few watts
05:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://ssdsphere.com/ssd-power-consumption-comparison/
05:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: try cleaning the edge of the card
05:43 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight[m]: I know, im saying its only one I know of, you might look for similiar store type
05:43 PM Tom_L: i put it in the other slot and wiggled it
05:43 PM roycroft: all the supermarkets around here have a magazine section
05:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: try pulling it out and popping it back in a few time first
05:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: are comic books still the printed like newsprint?
05:44 PM Tom_L: as bullseye boots the lights go out
05:44 PM tcurdt: pcw---home when the 7i96 info says it has differential outputs ... does that mean iPUL+ switches between 0 and 5V and PUL- has the inversion of that? 5V and 0 at the same time? it doesn't go into the negative voltage area like RS232 and friends, right?
05:44 PM roycroft: they are still printed
05:44 PM roycroft: i'm not a comic book reader, and don't know what kind of paper is used for them now
05:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: newsprint is on recycled paper and the inks use solvents like glycol
05:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: very slow dry and pretty safe
05:45 PM roycroft: i should imagine it's something more archival than the newsprint of yore, because it seems a large portion of the comic book market these days consists of collectors/investors, and not readers
05:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why silly putty lifts it so well
05:45 PM roycroft: and they would not want their investment falling apart or disintegrating
05:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i wonder if there is a bootleg market
05:46 PM roycroft: perhaps there are collectable quality comic books and reader quality comic books
05:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: reproductions would not be too difficult
05:47 PM Tom_L: does the same thing with buster
05:47 PM Tom_L: never had that before
05:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they weren't trying for archival or anti-counterfeit back then
05:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah weird
05:47 PM roycroft: no they were not
05:47 PM Tom_L: i've used it lots of times
05:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: had some weirdness with LPT cards recently as well
05:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: all work except for the CH382L chips
05:49 PM Tom_L: don't think i have another one
05:49 PM * roycroft is cooling off for a bit before heading back out into the heat
05:50 PM roycroft: i need to dash to the grocery store still
05:50 PM roycroft: then i can stay indoors until it cools off a bit later on tonight
05:51 PM roycroft: and wow, there is a chance of rain the beginning of next week in the forecast
05:51 PM roycroft: rain in august
05:51 PM roycroft: who ever heard of that?
05:53 PM andypugh: The UK?
05:54 PM XXCoder: aug rain? unpossible
05:54 PM andypugh: It’s useful crops grow.
05:55 PM andypugh: We had rain 2 days after the hottest day on record.
05:56 PM roguish[m]: send some rain over here. Bay Area is as dry as a popcorn fart
05:58 PM XXCoder: roy sadly quite a bunch of years ago, it was normal to have rains in least once a week during entire summer
05:59 PM XXCoder: I remember loving to bicycle during rainy day in summer
05:59 PM XXCoder: its in least 30 years ago
05:59 PM andypugh: But, then, we are all near the sea.It is a commonly believed fact that nowhere in the UK is more than 70 miles from the sea.
06:01 PM Tom_L: lbp16_access.send_packet: Network is unreachable
06:01 PM Tom_L: never got that on buster
06:01 PM andypugh: (I borrowed the phrase “it is a commonly believed fact” from a friend, I like it a lot. It also includes “you are nevet more than 10 yards from a rat” and “it takes more energy to eat celery than you get from it”
06:01 PM roycroft: i don't think that's quite true, andypugh
06:02 PM roycroft: but it's not a major stretch of the truth
06:02 PM andypugh: Indeed, it is a commonly believed “fact” “ :-)
06:03 PM roycroft: some areas near birmingham may be slightly farther than 70 miles from the sea
06:03 PM roycroft: but not much farther
06:07 PM roycroft: and i suppose that depends in on the definition of "the sea" as well
06:07 PM roycroft: and where the bristol channel turns into the river severn
06:36 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], tried on another pc with that card an no go
06:36 PM Tom_L: tried it on the interweb and works fine
06:36 PM Tom_L: both buster and bullseye
06:36 PM Tom_L: mesaflash 3.4.3
06:36 PM Tom_L: no clue...
06:37 PM roycroft: so tonight is pizza night
06:38 PM roycroft: i think the pizza stone is going to move from my oven to my grill this week
06:38 PM XXCoder: man its hot oiutside. felt like im walking into oven
06:38 PM roycroft: yes, it is
06:38 PM XXCoder: then i walked from oven into actual oven
06:38 PM XXCoder: opened all 4 doors
06:39 PM XXCoder: luckly no charging error so I could use AC
06:39 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], 2 different cards.. 7i92 7i96s
06:39 PM roycroft: grr
06:39 PM Tom_L: 2 different cables
06:39 PM roycroft: i do not want to go drive anywhere again, but i need some phenolic plywood for a project i'm designing and will be buildling in the next few days
06:39 PM XXCoder: doh
06:40 PM roycroft: the plywood is at woodcraft, i don't need it right now, but it's listed as '3/4"(18mm)'
06:40 PM roycroft: i called the store and asked which it was, and if it's a nominal size or an exact size
06:41 PM roycroft: and they told me the 3/4" is 18mm, and that is what thickness the plywood is
06:41 PM roycroft: so now i have to measure it myself
06:41 PM roycroft: s/the/that/
06:42 PM roycroft: if it's 3/4" it will be fine as is, but if it's 18mm i have to change my design
06:43 PM XXCoder: bit weird answer
06:44 PM roycroft: kind of expected
06:44 PM roycroft: that store is staffed by maga people who think metric units are a communist plot to destroy our culture
06:44 PM roycroft: they're very belligerently anti-metric
06:46 PM XXCoder: metric system is vastly older than communist
06:48 PM roycroft: and democrats are not communist
06:48 PM roycroft: but let's not let facts get in the way of some good old-fashioned hate
06:50 PM roycroft: there's a reason i'll sometimes drive to portland to go to a woodworking store than drive across town to the local woodcraft
06:51 PM roycroft: gst3d just emailed me
06:51 PM roycroft: they have 3d printers on sale
06:51 PM XXCoder: lol
06:51 PM roycroft: i guess they did not get the memo that i'm less than thrilled with them
06:53 PM roycroft: and they just emailed me again with the same offer
07:07 PM andypugh: Is it a good offer?
07:08 PM andypugh: (Not that I am interested, really, I am committed to buy a very expensive Prusa XL. Because, basically, it was the printer I was intending to build, but demonstrably haven;t)
07:15 PM roycroft: i've no idea
07:16 PM roycroft: but since i have two open disputes with them it would not be prudent for me to purchase anything else from them
07:16 PM roycroft: and a prusa xl would be an excellent printer to have
07:16 PM XXCoder: i want xl
07:16 PM andypugh: Don;t they get three strikes? :-)
07:16 PM roycroft: they did get three strikes, i think
07:16 PM roycroft: two failure to perform strikes
07:17 PM roycroft: and then they cancelled one of my orders per my request and told me they refunded my money but never did
07:17 PM roycroft: so that adds up to at least a liar strike or a theft strike
07:17 PM roycroft: and probably both
07:18 PM roycroft: anyway, a prusa xl is a printer i'd like to have
07:18 PM roycroft: i just don't want to spend that much money on a printer at the moment
07:19 PM roycroft: an mk3s+ would be ok, but i'd like a fairly large build volume for my next printer
07:19 PM roycroft: the xl is just the right size
07:19 PM andypugh: I looked at the XL at $2000 and thought that I could do it cheaper, but not _that_ much chaaper, and in the last two tears I just hadn’t even started. (and I am single, my money is only mine)
07:20 PM roycroft: i was advised by several folks to build my own printer so i would learn more about them
07:21 PM roycroft: i bought an off-the-shelf printer and was printing within an hour or so after i got it
07:21 PM roycroft: and i've been happy with that decision
07:21 PM andypugh: You could just send me files and I can print them, I won;t be running it all day, or even ebery day.
07:21 PM roycroft: i have done several mods, and i have learned a lot about 3d printing
07:21 PM roycroft: but i have been printing since day one
07:22 PM roycroft: and if i had built my first one from scratch it would have been a lot longer before i was printing
07:22 PM roguish[m]: andypugh: a quick question about PID loop? what setting can be used to pass a signal straight through? P=1 and FF1=1? or what?
07:22 PM roycroft: after i'm done printing all these boxes i won't be using mind every day
07:22 PM andypugh: I bought the cheapest printer on eBay, as a toe-dipping excercise and have been using it fot several years unmodified.
07:22 PM roycroft: or even every week
07:22 PM andypugh: roguish[m]: FF0
07:23 PM roycroft: mine isn't the cheapest one around, but it was an entry level printer
07:23 PM XXCoder: andypugh: theres always bambu. its not multi-material but multi-color tho
07:23 PM roycroft: iirc i paid about US$350 for it
07:23 PM roycroft: bambu is a brand of rolling papers
07:23 PM roycroft: cheeh and chong even named one of their albums after it
07:23 PM roguish[m]: andypugh: could you be a bit more precise? please?
07:23 PM roycroft: "big bambu"
07:24 PM XXCoder: https://bambulab.com/en
07:24 PM roycroft: the one with sister mary elephant
07:25 PM andypugh: roguish[m]: pid.N.FF0 ?
07:26 PM andypugh: Set the FF0 gain to 1 and the output is exactly the same as the input, if al other gains are zero.
07:27 PM roguish[m]: andypugh: that's exactly what I wanted to know..... thanks. i'm starting to tune my newish digital AMC drives.
07:28 PM roguish[m]: ah, yes. now I see. looking at the pid block diagram.
07:29 PM roguish[m]: i've never used FF0 before.
07:29 PM andypugh: Set FF1 gain to 1 and the output is exaclty equall to dIn/dt and FF2 is the same for d2in/dt2
07:30 PM andypugh: FF2 is handy for torwue mode drives, gives a current kick under hard accel.
07:30 PM andypugh: (torque)
07:32 PM roguish[m]: I've set the torque and velocity gains in the drive. now it's on the lcnc....
07:33 PM roguish[m]: brushed motors
07:33 PM roguish[m]: 4 pole...
07:36 PM roguish[m]: andypugh: thank you.
07:44 PM roguish[m]: well, tending dinner on the stove. better pay attention there....... ttnf
08:23 PM * roycroft has the pizza stone on the barbie, and is heating it up there
08:23 PM roycroft: i've also recently learned that i'm really old fashioned
08:23 PM roycroft: all the hip, modern pizza cookers don't use stones
08:24 PM roycroft: they use 1/4" or 3/8" thick steel plates
08:24 PM XXCoder: sounds expensive
08:24 PM XXCoder: stones is cheaper
08:24 PM roycroft: because the steel transmits heat faster, and does not crack at high temps
08:24 PM roycroft: i don't know
08:24 PM roycroft: the pizza stone i'm using now was about $50
08:24 PM roycroft: er, about $40
08:26 PM roycroft: a 12" square of 1/4" a36 steel is $52.65 at online metals
08:26 PM roycroft: so not that big a difference
08:26 PM roycroft: the a36 is hot rolled, so i'd have to descale it as well as cut it in a circle
08:27 PM roycroft: i bet i could go to coyote steel and find some scrap for about $25
08:27 PM XXCoder: interesting
08:27 PM roycroft: so maybe next time i go buy some steel i'll see what i can find
08:31 PM XXCoder: maybe theres good ones yeah
08:32 PM roycroft: i'm sure if i go shopping i can find a $200 yuppie steel pizza stone
08:33 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com//dp/B08HJMFV64/
08:33 PM roycroft: or that
08:33 PM roycroft: it's hardly worth making one's own at that price
08:34 PM XXCoder: I suppose
08:34 PM XXCoder: but I remember seeing that one for half price
08:34 PM Tom_L: just get a flat rock from the river
08:34 PM XXCoder: but it was pretty while ago
08:35 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09B4JYXMB/https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09B4JYXMB/
08:35 PM roycroft: that would be ok too
08:35 PM roycroft: i have a ceramic pizza stone that works fine
08:35 PM roycroft: it is glazed, though
08:35 PM roycroft: allegedly a steel one works even better because it transfers heat faster
08:35 PM Tom_L: copper
08:36 PM Tom_L: wonder what a slab of copper that size would cost
08:36 PM XXCoder: you prepured to re-mortage?
08:36 PM roycroft: i haven't found a $200 one yet
08:36 PM XXCoder: kidding ;) but bet not cheap
08:36 PM roycroft: but this is getting there
08:36 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PC5FH1J/
08:37 PM XXCoder: https://www.amazon.com/Sierra-VOLARE-Diameter-Volare-Natural/dp/B09BMT531K/ ;)
08:37 PM roycroft: the absolutely ideal thing, of course, would be a proper wood fired pizza oven that lives out on the patio
08:37 PM roycroft: and where the firebrick is the cooking surface
08:38 PM roycroft: yeah
08:38 PM roycroft: even if i win the US$1.2 billion lottery, i don't think i want that
08:38 PM roycroft: i'd rather pay someone $3k to build a proper bespoke wood-fired pizza oven
08:39 PM roycroft: or $5k, as the case may be
08:39 PM roycroft: but for now, assuming i don't win the lottery (and if i don't buy any tickets i probably won't win)
08:39 PM XXCoder: when you win something with no ticket bought its probably scam
08:40 PM roycroft: an upgrade to a steel "stone" would be fine
08:41 PM XXCoder: buy massive cast iron
08:41 PM XXCoder: cover it with stainless steel to protect against rust
08:42 PM roycroft: stainless steel is a horrible heat conductor
08:43 PM roycroft: i don't want it anywhere near anything i'm cooking
08:43 PM XXCoder: it would be just thin coating
08:43 PM XXCoder: just making it rustproof
08:43 PM XXCoder: rest of block being cast iron
08:43 PM XXCoder: or copper
08:46 PM Tom_L: well i didn't get far tonight. i found out what doesn't work
08:46 PM roycroft: i'll be heating the "stone" up to 290c when i use it
08:46 PM roycroft: and it won't ever be in a damp environment
08:46 PM roycroft: i'm not really concerned about rust
08:47 PM roycroft: if/when i get one it will live in the oven 100% of the time, unless i'm making pizza on the grill
08:47 PM XXCoder: cast iron very easily rusts thats why if I was designing some pizza oven using it, id cover it
08:47 PM roycroft: as my current pizza stone does
08:47 PM roycroft: when i use the oven for not pizza i just leave the stone in it and put whatever pan i'm using on top of it
08:48 PM roycroft: if i were desigining a pizza oven i'd use refractory bricks on the inside
08:48 PM roycroft: and i would clad it in stainless steel
08:48 PM roycroft: probably
08:48 PM XXCoder: i saw interesting one that uses gas fired concerete block
08:48 PM roycroft: i might use some other material to clad the refractory bricks
08:48 PM XXCoder: its over foot thick
08:48 PM roycroft: depending on the look i want
08:49 PM XXCoder: it takes quite a while to get going, but once it goes you can cook anything
08:49 PM roycroft: but ss would work well, would help contain the heat, would not rust, and can look good
09:01 PM XXCoder: watching that khaos guy make filament lol
10:23 PM bdju: does anyone know about lynx plasma tables and how to get them running? my dad got an early 2000s one