#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 27 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:05 AM gywilo[m]: I have not specified, but would think latest stable? 2.8?
12:20 AM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: which distro are you building on?
12:21 AM CaptHindsight[m]: here are recent instructions on building LCNC 2.9 on Bullseye https://www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
12:22 AM gywilo[m]: building on bullseye with 5.18.0-2-rt-amd64 kernel
12:24 AM CaptHindsight[m]: bullseye is Python3
12:24 AM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC 2.8 still uses Python2
12:25 AM CaptHindsight[m]: so 2.9 on Bullseye is the way to go
12:25 AM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC 2.8 would need Buster
12:25 AM CaptHindsight[m]: or a bunch of extra work
12:29 AM gywilo[m]: gotcha, I didn't realize bullseye is python3 and buster python2
12:30 AM CaptHindsight[m]: it took LCNC a few years to finally reach all Python3
12:32 AM gywilo[m]: getting more dependency issues
12:32 AM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (229KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/ieOortpsGDnRpIaAgvDpzfgO/unknown.png >
12:33 AM gywilo[m]: I think I need to consider going to buster with latest kernel available
12:34 AM gywilo[m]: give that a try from a bootdisk before wiping system and starting over
12:39 AM CaptHindsight[m]: if you want the easy way https://repository.qtpyvcp.com/repo/linuxcnc_debs/ for Bullseye
12:41 AM roycroft: new yorkshire workshop just released a great cnc router build video
12:41 AM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHy-AX4ZnNI
12:41 AM roycroft: it's long
12:41 AM roycroft: but it's a good watch
12:42 AM XXCoder: im watching CD video. he finally released a new video
12:42 AM gywilo[m]: I need to build from source. would this do that?
12:43 AM XXCoder: it referenced to fairly infamous "money for nothing" music video. it was ispired by some worker rant about music as they was working on moving stuff
12:43 AM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: those are pre-built LCNC packages
12:44 AM roycroft: spoiler for this video: he builds a temporary gantry to mount a grinder so he can precision grind his gantry
12:45 AM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: follow my earlier link to build it yourself
12:45 AM gywilo[m]: gotcha; easy way won't work for me then. I need to make from source so that I can recompile and test kins
12:46 AM CaptHindsight[m]: the only issue was po4a might need to be built for Bullseye
12:46 AM CaptHindsight[m]: or use a packport of it if there is one
12:46 AM gywilo[m]: thanks, I have. I'm running into more dependency issues, but this isn't with a clean build
12:47 AM XXCoder: if curious, this is the CD video im talking about https://youtu.be/0Cz8CjLq0fQ
12:47 AM roycroft: thanks
12:52 AM XXCoder: man that was fun video indeed
12:55 AM XXCoder: checking your video link now
12:56 AM XXCoder: roycroft: water leveling. very interesting
01:00 AM CaptHindsight[m]: 40 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0
01:00 AM CaptHindsight[m]: 37 years
01:04 AM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (43KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/wZYGoCnMpVKGzgYJumThNMQO/ly-26Jul2022-19462.png >
01:04 AM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Shop: after a few hours
01:11 AM XXCoder: "I had to re-mortage the house and sell a kidnet to buy one" (a mdf sheet) lol
01:15 AM roycroft: xxcoder: that sunlu black filament has been printing fine
01:15 AM XXCoder: thats good
01:15 AM roycroft: i think the difference is that i'm using the rollers to support the spool, not a dowel through the hub
01:16 AM roycroft: i started with that last night, and by morning i should be done with the 1kg spool
01:17 AM roycroft: then it's back to a jumbo spool from atomic
01:17 AM XXCoder: you also used rollers for gst3d?
01:17 AM roycroft: i haven't tried it with the rollers
01:17 AM roycroft: i'll do that when i have some time
01:17 AM XXCoder: doubt will change due to brittleness
01:17 AM roycroft: that stuff had so many other problems though, i don't think it will make much, if any difference
01:17 AM XXCoder: indeed
01:18 AM XXCoder: my machine ironically started having extrusion issues...
01:18 AM XXCoder: not gst3d though, but atomic
01:18 AM XXCoder: think I finally figured issue though. idler being too tight
01:18 AM roycroft: sounds like a pretty easy fix, thank goodness
01:18 AM XXCoder: yeah
01:19 AM roycroft: new yorkshire workshop guy is decrunchifying his linear rail trucks now
01:19 AM roycroft: they must not be genuine hiwin
01:19 AM XXCoder: lol. I was thinking he would be likely to need to do that
01:20 AM XXCoder: chinese mgn is good, once you rebuild em
01:20 AM XXCoder: maybe even take all balls out and measure all of em
01:20 AM XXCoder: and insert one to spec oversize ball for backlash
01:29 AM XXCoder: funny how I can see blue only when hes soldering. )night mode)
01:30 AM XXCoder: erm welding
02:11 AM XXCoder: white? wont be white for long...
02:12 AM XXCoder: roycroft: ah grinder dust also. needed to remove that from MGN blocks
02:25 AM pere: Tom_L: created <URL: https://bugs.debian.org/1016098 > to track the issues building bookworm ISOs on Buster.
02:27 AM CaptHindsight[m]: bearings stored in sand to keep them dry may also become crunchy
02:31 AM pere: is it better to cover them in oil to avoid air access than to store them in sand?
02:39 AM CaptHindsight[m]: pere: stored in sand is a joke since many of the Chinese bearings and ballscrews arrive"crunchy" vs smooth and sileent
02:40 AM CaptHindsight[m]: I've gotten some bearings with 3-4 detents in their rotation
02:41 AM CaptHindsight[m]: some of the balls were either square or very dirty
02:41 AM pere: ah
02:43 AM rs[m]: JT-Shop: the peaks spaced 10µs look very suspicious. strange.
02:44 AM Loetmichel_: CaptHindsight[m]: oh. got used and recycled bearings?
02:44 AM XXCoder: or new china balls
02:45 AM CaptHindsight[m]: Loetmichel_: nah, just telling him about Chinese bearings
02:45 AM Loetmichel_: those detents are usually a sign of "too much axial force"
02:45 AM rs[m]: the new yorkshire guy used a grinder next to the rails for (probably) multiple hours, so the grinding dust had to come out. usually you would put the disassembled stuff into ultrasonic cleaner.
02:46 AM CaptHindsight[m]: Loetmichel_: fresh out of the box
02:46 AM Loetmichel_: thats why i thought they sold you used ones that were mounted somewhere as a pair and got too much "tension"
02:46 AM CaptHindsight[m]: like the Chinese rails from Automation Technologies
02:47 AM CaptHindsight[m]: Loetmichel_: too much dirt and not enough grinding
02:51 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.jwwinco.com/en-us/home
02:59 AM CaptHindsight[m]: rs: I have 2 Ryzen systems that act the like that
03:00 AM CaptHindsight[m]: act like that
03:01 AM rs[m]: is it really useful to isolcpu 3 cores?
03:01 AM CaptHindsight[m]: very similar with Debian rt kernel and Gentoo
03:02 AM CaptHindsight[m]: rs: depends, it gets the lowest jitter that way
03:03 AM CaptHindsight[m]: depending on kernel and BIOS with same MB and cpu and isolcpus not used might be 2-3x the jitter
03:04 AM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/46292-current-motherboards?start=40#247993 with and without isolcpus
03:20 AM rs[m]: CaptHindsight: that was not the point. I use isolcpus=5 on a 6-core phenom.
03:40 AM pere: anyone here know if <URL: https://awesome.tech/product/mg3-mini-gerbil-v3-2-axis-controller-for-k40-laser/ > can be controlled by linuxcnc?
03:52 AM Loetmichel_: pere: as K40 is a modified GRBL: nope. (as far as i know). Because those can be fed direct Gcode over a serial connection. You'd have more luck with something like k40 whisperer.
03:53 AM pere: thanks.
04:12 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:16 AM pere: hi
04:24 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:36 AM Tom_L: morning
04:38 AM Tom_L: why does it seem every install takes a different path to get to the end
04:41 AM JT-Cave: what are you installing?
04:55 AM Tom_L: debian 10
04:55 AM Tom_L: trying to install linuxcnc on it
04:56 AM Tom_L: seems there is a different key now or i did something wrong
04:56 AM Tom_L: so i tried building from scratch and got an error compiling 2.8
04:57 AM Tom_L: some little typo but i thought 2.8 didn't change or was 'stable'
04:57 AM Tom_L: so now when i try building that iso, it can't find the linuxcnc packages
04:58 AM Tom_L: anyway.. i'll sort it out later
04:58 AM JT-Cave: are you building a deb from the repo?
06:03 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:18 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:34 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:49 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, that is the goal
06:49 AM Tom_L: err an iso
06:51 AM Tom_L: bookworm iso (debian 12 i think)
07:06 AM JT-Cave: bookworm = testing = debian 12
07:07 AM JT-Cave: so your installing debian 12 and building emc from the repo?
07:08 AM pere: should not be necessary, as linuxcnc-uspace is already in debian 12/testing.
07:09 AM Tom_L: i'm installing debian 10 and building an installable iso for 12
07:09 AM Tom_L: pere, it's a fun exercise anyway
07:09 AM pere: part of the problem is that debian 10 do not really support live-build building iso for debian 12. had to patch it a bit...
07:09 AM Tom_L: but aparently they moved the repo
07:09 AM pere: I suspect building on debian 11 would be a lot easier. :)
07:10 AM pere: live-build on N support building for N+1, but not N+2, in general.
07:10 AM pere: would probably be easier to build for sid, but it is kind of pointless as the test is for Debian/testing.
07:11 AM Tom_L: i couldn't get linuxcnc to install from syaptic package manager last night so i tried building from scratch
07:11 AM Tom_L: got errors building also
07:12 AM JT-Cave: oh, that sounds like fun for you
07:12 AM Tom_L: pyvcp.py had an error
07:12 AM Tom_L: and i don't do python so it took a bit to get past that
07:13 AM Tom_L: i didn't think 2.8 changed once it was out the door
07:13 AM pere: <URL: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc-live-build/pulls > is part of the fixes that came out of this effort. :)
07:14 AM Tom_L: upi
07:14 AM Tom_L: woops
07:14 AM Tom_L: you're a busy boy
07:15 AM Tom_L: i will still try again later on today
07:16 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, is python space sensitive?
07:17 AM Tom_L: tabs and indents?
07:17 AM Tom_L: i did get your tool rebuilt and that _did_ work ok
07:18 AM JT-Shop: holy shit batman mill touch 6 is up and running
07:18 AM Tom_L: yay
07:19 AM JT-Shop: must have picked and older version of mt6... putz with it later time to split firewood
07:19 AM Tom_L: started to rain here
07:20 AM Tom_L: later..
08:26 AM JT-Cave: python is both case sensitive and indents define blocks
08:32 AM JT-Cave: and PEP 8 is stupid
08:38 AM JT-Cave: I think I'll start from scratch on this pc tomorrow and take notes of everything I did
08:47 AM turnmyCNCde: hi i try to compile from git
08:47 AM turnmyCNCde: on debian 10 buster
08:48 AM turnmyCNCde: getting compile error
08:48 AM turnmyCNCde: "/usr/bin/ld:objects/max31855.ver:2: syntax error in VERSION script
08:49 AM turnmyCNCde: can someone help
08:49 AM pere: turnmyCNCde: how do you build?
08:49 AM turnmyCNCde: hi pere
08:49 AM pere: I build using "debian/configure; debuild' on bullseye, and it work fine.
08:50 AM turnmyCNCde: build via make#
08:50 AM turnmyCNCde: i used src autogen
08:50 AM pere: but I tend to use 'debian/configure no-docs' during testing to speed up the build.
08:51 AM pere: buster is rather old.
08:51 AM pere: turnmyCNCde: same result if you install devscripts and use debuild?
08:52 AM turnmyCNCde:  i am now 1week on to get this macro on the lathe with gmocacapy to light
08:53 AM turnmyCNCde: so what are the commands for debian
08:53 AM pere: what does 'get this macro on the lathe' mean?
08:54 AM pere: 'sudo apt install devscripts' and then 'debian/configure; debuild'
08:54 AM pere: or add the no-docs option to configure if you do not want to build the documentation.
08:55 AM turnmyCNCde: i downloaded more then 2Gb of build files
08:56 AM rmu: turnmyCNCde: do you want to build a .deb package? or just build for "run in place"?
08:56 AM pere: I have spent almost a year working on the documentation system in LinuxCNC, to make it easier for translations, so I do not recommend dropping doc building lightly.
08:57 AM turnmyCNCde: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=240   this forum tread
08:57 AM turnmyCNCde: it workes with axis and touchy
08:58 AM turnmyCNCde: but no way to get gmoccapy to load
08:58 AM turnmyCNCde: gmoccapy without the macro workes
08:59 AM turnmyCNCde: rmu run in place needed deb woudt be perfect for more then one installl
09:00 AM turnmyCNCde: successfully configured for 'uspace-Debian-10'.
09:01 AM turnmyCNCde: build running
09:01 AM rmu: so off the top of my head first you run autogen.sh, then configure, then make and then sudo make setuid or something like that
09:02 AM turnmyCNCde: i did that with compileerrror
09:02 AM rmu: thats not a compile error but a linker error and a very strange one
09:02 AM pere: just built successfully master HEAD on bullseye, so my guess is that buster is too old to build the current master, but I have not tested on buster.
09:03 AM rmu: probably running from git unstable won't help really
09:03 AM pere: turnmyCNCde: did you consider building the 2.8 edition instead of the latest git master edition?
09:03 AM rmu: 2.8 is still python 2.7 IIRC
09:03 AM turnmyCNCde: the 2.8 doesnt have this macros
09:04 AM turnmyCNCde: it is in the latest master
09:04 AM pere: ah.
09:04 AM turnmyCNCde: or dont i understand this gnu git system like i do
09:04 AM rmu: ok. i see.
09:05 AM turnmyCNCde: the forum sying gtk3
09:05 AM rmu: so you managed to run some sort of 2.9? you said the macros are working in axis and touchy?
09:05 AM turnmyCNCde: yes
09:05 AM rmu: what 2.9 version was that?
09:06 AM turnmyCNCde: todays update
09:06 AM rmu: how did you build that?
09:06 AM turnmyCNCde: 7148
09:06 AM turnmyCNCde: its the buuildbot version from today
09:06 AM rmu: you mean the buildbot deb?
09:07 AM turnmyCNCde: yes
09:07 AM turnmyCNCde: glade cand open the macro.ui from the folder
09:07 AM rmu: this feels like a session at the "Hals Nasen Ohren" doctor pulling stuff out of your nose
09:08 AM rmu: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/code/building-linuxcnc.html
09:08 AM turnmyCNCde: lathemacro.ui
09:08 AM rmu: if you follow those steps, you should not get any strange liker problems
09:09 AM rmu: but you are building basically the same thing as the buildbot
09:10 AM rmu: meaning the cause of your problem is something different. do you have an error message from gmoccapy startup`
09:10 AM turnmyCNCde: i only wnat to look what build file of this looks on my own buuild
09:10 AM rmu: ?
09:10 AM turnmyCNCde: the error is quite large
09:11 AM turnmyCNCde: let me breakup the compile
09:11 AM rmu: put the error in copy/paste the error here https://paste.debian.net/
09:12 AM turnmyCNCde: LINUXCNC - 2.9.0-pre0-7148-g2698cc73fb
09:12 AM rmu: don't paste it into irc
09:12 AM rmu: that can get you kicked ;)
09:12 AM turnmyCNCde: ROF
09:14 AM roycroft: we don't kick so much as chastise here
09:15 AM roycroft: in the friendliest way, of course
09:16 AM turnmyCNCde: it tait takes about 2min tostartup till the error on gmoccapy kes
09:18 AM rmu: roycroft: i thought of a libera chat anti-dos bot
09:18 AM turnmyCNCde: rmu https://dpaste.org/ysesT
09:19 AM rmu: (onboard:22768): Gdk-CRITICAL **: 16:15:34.674: gdk_window_thaw_toplevel_updates: assertion 'window->update_and_descendants_freeze_count > 0' failed
09:20 AM rmu: no idea what that means, but that assert seems to be the thing that terminates linuxcnc
09:21 AM * pere do not know gtk either.
09:22 AM pere: turnmyCNCde: I suspect your best chance is to figure out how to reliably replicate this using one of the simulated linuxcnc instances, and make a test script to trigger it. this way someone who do understand gtk can replicate and hopefully fix it.
09:22 AM turnmyCNCde: i did terminate linuxcnc terminal
09:22 AM turnmyCNCde: as it stalls without any buttons viewing only the preview frame is present
09:23 AM turnmyCNCde: ok that sounds like a good idee
09:23 AM pere: turnmyCNCde: is this crash reported on <URL: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues >?
09:24 AM turnmyCNCde: i got it to work on a old Fujitsu D2312-A23
09:24 AM turnmyCNCde: but i got 8 School lathe to turn and the D3451board wont work
09:25 AM rmu: turnmyCNCde: you could look for gtk_status_icon_set_name in the "lathe macros" and in gmoccapy or whatever that function is called from python and remove it if you find it
09:25 AM turnmyCNCde: ok i will
09:26 AM rmu: and you could try a different desktop / window manager
09:26 AM turnmyCNCde: changing xfce to gnome ?
09:27 AM rmu: just as experiment if it changes something, but it is only a hunch
09:30 AM turnmyCNCde: Recommends: task-gnome-desktop | task-xfce-desktop | task-kde-desktop | task-lxde-desktop | task-cinnamon-desktop | task-mate-desktop | task-lxqt-desktop
09:31 AM rmu: seems i can't run gmoccapy at all at my desktop, it barfs on TypeError: argument self: Expected GdkX11.X11Window, but got __gi__.GdkWaylandWindow
09:32 AM turnmyCNCde: i need to restart
09:32 AM rmu: that is gmoccapy is working, but lathe macros doesn't work. :-)
09:33 AM rmu: s/working/"working"/
11:32 AM perry_j1987: morning
12:12 PM GTKplusplus[m]: still messing with my m6 and stuff
12:12 PM GTKplusplus[m]: any idea why gmocappy.toolchange-change "does not exist" even when put into a postgui file?
12:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: rs: sorry, I am a very poor mind reader
12:55 PM roycroft: minds are messy
01:10 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (45KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ofOXsrMZlZePkxHlOEJEqYaI/ly-27Jul2022-1371.png >
01:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: rs: ^^
01:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: results are similar for the base thread, the servo has a bit more but won't matter much at 1mS
01:44 PM JT-Shop: yippee it's Friday and quitting time
01:44 PM Tom_L: heh i wish
01:45 PM * JT-Shop celebrates with a nap
01:46 PM bmbbsr: hi : Can someone point me to a list of Hardware Computers that can run the Modern Linuxcnc as it is expectet to go to 64bit Debian bullseye
01:47 PM bmbbsr: most Systems here still on 32bit ubuntu
01:51 PM roycroft: bmbbsr: most 64 bit machines will work
01:52 PM roycroft: there is no list at this point, nor is there likely to be one
01:52 PM roycroft: the important thing is how you're going to handle motion control
01:53 PM roycroft: if you are planning on using a parallel port on the system board, you should download the livecd image, run it from a cd-rom or thumb drive, and run the latency test to see if your system board is suitable for that
01:53 PM roycroft: if you're going to use a "smart" motion control board like one of the mesa products, the latency test is not important
01:54 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: *less important. There are some terrible systems with >1ms latency 🙂
01:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bmbbsr: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/46292-current-motherboards
01:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bmbbsr: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/39371-results-of-latency-test-list-of-computers-tested-for-use-with-linuxcnc
01:58 PM roycroft: that's not really a list
01:58 PM roycroft: more of a discussion and a couple anecdotes
01:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: avoid Intel since they are just a rotten compnay
01:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: look for gaming motherboards since they tend to have the BIOS options for turning off the latency problems
01:59 PM roycroft: the second link contains more useful information, but it's harder to get at
01:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yea, readin
02:00 PM roycroft: someone should volunteer (and i'm not that person) to summarize the latency results
02:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pretty much Ryzen and gaming motherboard should do it
02:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: avoid Asrock and MSI
02:00 PM roycroft: if you can disable power management completely you have a decent shot at tolerable latency
02:01 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The problem is the consumer stuff changes so fast it is really hard to keep on top of it.
02:01 PM roycroft: so don't buy a "green" system board
02:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nah roycroft will keep the list up to date
02:01 PM roycroft: zincboy: hence my recommendation to boot from a livecd and run the test
02:02 PM roycroft: and my stronger recommendation not to use a parallel port for your motion control signaling
02:02 PM roycroft: not to mention that you'd need a bob anyway with a parallel port
02:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I like to find some of the older refurb off lease corporate systems. You can then find a system that they made a ton of and they are all exactly the same. Current go-to is the HP8300 ultraslim.
02:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: buy what JT got
02:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I get lucky and end up with HP systems with terrible latency
02:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: usually a corporate off lease that has no way to kill VM's or power management in the BIOS
02:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if only there was some way for people to share this info
02:05 PM roycroft: a wiki would be a good place
02:05 PM roycroft: then no single person would have to aggregate the info
02:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah like an electronic billboard
02:06 PM roycroft: a forum thread is a stupid place to do it
02:06 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: There was one.
02:06 PM roycroft: sorry
02:06 PM roycroft: but it is
02:06 PM XXCoder: capt if its because of bios password you can reset bios
02:06 PM roycroft: 33 pages of latency test posts
02:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nah sum buddy was sposeto do that
02:06 PM roycroft: that could take an entire evening to sort through
02:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think it was a python thngamabob that can do it after a bunch of people run the test
02:07 PM roycroft: or someone can set up a latency test table on the wiki and folks can add their own results
02:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/39370-script-for-automated-testing-of-computer-latency
02:09 PM roycroft: i need one more black box
02:09 PM roycroft: i have but a few meters of black filament left
02:09 PM roycroft: it's going to be close
02:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe a patch for that script that takes the results and automagically posts them on the wiki
02:09 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
02:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but then the wiki will be vulnerable to spam
02:09 PM roycroft: but the entire rest of that spool from sunlu printed fine
02:10 PM roycroft: that wiki page is what i'm talking about
02:10 PM roycroft: but the date of each entry is missing - there should be a date column
02:11 PM roycroft: so that i'm not looking at test results from 2014
02:11 PM roycroft: or can exclud them
02:11 PM roycroft: and one should be able to sort on any column, which is easy to do
02:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: what happened to discussing facts and hand picking the ones that support your wishes?
02:12 PM roycroft: that's a political approach
02:12 PM XXCoder: roy if theres history of edits, can always sort em by year
02:12 PM roycroft: well, old school political approach
02:12 PM roycroft: modern politics can't be bothered with such a rigorous methodology
02:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: new science
02:12 PM roycroft: it's a lot easier just to make up "alternative" facts and use them to support your positions
02:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: latency jitter is for the weak
02:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: alternative latency results is what I would expect
02:15 PM XXCoder: my linuxcnc latency is in negative numbers. #alternatefacts
02:16 PM bmbbsr: thanks there are somwhat expensiv
02:16 PM roycroft: low latency is for the faint of heart anyway
02:16 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (10KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/wLXHVZYCLciBEDxKIDreXUwP/alternative_latency_results.jpg >
02:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: see proof
02:17 PM roycroft: be bold! embrace high latency and mill that huge titanium part with it!
02:17 PM XXCoder: in least you didnt say inconel. lol
02:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bmbbsr: did you see the HP system that ZincBoy[CA, ON] posted, they are $100 usd
02:18 PM roycroft: i may be bold, but i'm not insane :)
02:18 PM bmbbsr: yes
02:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: still too much?
02:18 PM bmbbsr: the problem is offen that the systems recommended here are in real not the same
02:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: check with goodwill or similar
02:19 PM XXCoder: normally I'd suggest maybe rpi is enough but those is nigh impossible to get,'
02:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bmbbsr: most AMD dual cores made in the past 12 years work pretty well
02:20 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That is why I recommend the corporate systems. They are exactly the same because the IT dept demand it.
02:20 PM bmbbsr: yes i got a bunch of fujitsu P5915
02:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: somebody posted an available ARM board like the Rpi4 that is around $50 usd
02:20 PM bmbbsr: they run on the 2.7 very fast
02:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://libre.computer/products/s905x/
02:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe this plus remora or esp32 or colorlite boards
02:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/Libre-Computer-AML-S905X-CC-Potato-64-bit/dp/B074P6BNGZ/ref=sr_1_1
02:22 PM roycroft: an rpi4 should work fine with linuxcnc along with a mesa ethernet board
02:23 PM roycroft: other than that rpis are currently being made of unobtanium, as noted above
02:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.pine64.org/2022/03/15/march-update-introducing-the-quartzpro64/
02:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.banana-pi.org/t/banana-pi-with-rockchip-rk3588-development-kit-with-8g-ram-and-32g-emmc-flash/13123
02:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://linuxgizmos.com/rock-5-sbc-features-octa-core-rk3588-16gb-ram-and-triple-displays/
02:24 PM bmbbsr: what OS shoudt go to the rpi5
02:24 PM bmbbsr: 4
02:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://www.orangepi.org/html/hardWare/computerAndMicrocontrollers/details/orange-pi-4B.html
02:25 PM roycroft: and i lost the filament gamble
02:25 PM XXCoder: there is linuxcnc package ready to be used on rpi
02:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bmbbsr: for Rpi4 there is a complete LCNC iso to copy
02:25 PM roycroft: but i'd have had to bin it anyway
02:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bmbbsr: if building yourself I'd say use Gentoo
02:26 PM XXCoder: roy sunlu failed? or gst3d?
02:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bmbbsr: https://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/linuxcnc-2.8.1-pi4.zip Rpi LCNC ISO
02:27 PM bmbbsr: thank you
02:27 PM bmbbsr: lots of infos Good night
02:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: AML-S905X-CC (Le Potato) + a remora compatible board is <$100
02:28 PM unterhaus_: what lcnc would it run?
02:28 PM unterhaus_: tempting
02:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: same as the Rpi
02:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there is a 64b Gentoo ISO for the Rpi4, I'd probably start there and just build LCNC
02:29 PM roycroft: i ran out
02:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I don't know why the Rpi fans are happy about the Potato, it's more open and actually available
02:30 PM unterhaus_: it doesn't have the same video though
02:30 PM roycroft: i wasn't sure if i could get one more box out of the spool
02:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and only $54
02:30 PM roycroft: and i couldn't
02:30 PM roycroft: but i ran the entire spool of sunlu without a hitch
02:30 PM roycroft: i'm back to atomic again, with another jumbo reel
02:30 PM unterhaus_: rpi4 are outrageous prices still?
02:31 PM XXCoder: still yes
02:31 PM roycroft: and i have more atomic black on the way
02:31 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus_: IF you can find one
02:31 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:31 PM XXCoder: capt read it, not too bad but seems form factor of rpi 2/3 and max 2 gb ram
02:31 PM roycroft: unobtanium is a very expensive element, even though it's one of the most common elements now
02:31 PM unterhaus_: the last price I saw on amazon was $190
02:31 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:32 PM roycroft: for an rpi4?
02:32 PM unterhaus_: yes, rpi4
02:32 PM roycroft: jeeze
02:32 PM roycroft: i bought one not too long ago for $64 or so
02:32 PM XXCoder: cheapest was 150 usd, it was for 1 gb modelk
02:32 PM roycroft: with 4GB of ram
02:32 PM unterhaus_: at that price I can go over and buy 10 small form factor pcs
02:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://libre.computer/products/s905x/ potato also uses u-boot so you can tweak it for real time
02:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unlike the Rpi4 closed firmware
02:33 PM unterhaus_: I think I bought one right after you from adafruit for about $65
02:33 PM unterhaus_: soon thereafter it got hard to find one for $100, and then they went through the roof
02:34 PM unterhaus_: potato would be much nicer with wifi
02:35 PM XXCoder: each day, peak hot day of week moves a day forward
02:35 PM roycroft: oh, it was longer ago than i remembered
02:35 PM roycroft: 20 september 2021
02:35 PM XXCoder: its sat at 96f now
02:35 PM roycroft: but i paid $55 for the rpi4 with 4GB of ram
02:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.rutronik24.com/product/rockchip/rk3588/17772762.html
02:36 PM XXCoder: pi have been excessive price for pretty much most of this year so makes sense
02:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.rutronik24.com/pgm/rockchip/microprocessor/icmpu/
02:37 PM roycroft: chicago electric distributors, where i bought my last one, have a starter kit for $99
02:37 PM roycroft: but that's a 2GB model
02:37 PM roycroft: anything with more ram is sold out
02:37 PM unterhaus_: I wanted a pi for octoprint, but no go at that price
02:38 PM roycroft: and all their bare bones pis are sold out
02:38 PM roycroft: i'm using a pi3 or pi4 for octoprint
02:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so why the Rpi4? Easy to load software?
02:38 PM roycroft: i forget which
02:38 PM roycroft: capthindsight: small footprint, light on power use, used to be cheap
02:38 PM roycroft: my rpi4 is going to live inside my cnc control panel, mounted on a din rail
02:39 PM roycroft: so no need for an external computer
02:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: same is true for Opi, Bpi, potato etc etc
02:39 PM XXCoder: im just glad I have rpi for a while. orginally got it for controlling laser machine
02:39 PM roycroft: i don't know about those, capthindsight
02:39 PM roycroft: if they work as well and are cheaper, then i'd be fine with them
02:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: so it might just be product unawareness?
02:39 PM roycroft: yes
02:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah ok
02:39 PM roycroft: that's probably the entire reason
02:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/46077-potential-all-in-one-single-board-computers
02:41 PM roycroft: i think you know me well enough by now to know that i look for what works, not to make something work
02:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: most should be able to software step as well using their internal microcontrollers
02:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and most have ethernet so they can work with Mesa
02:43 PM roycroft: all that stuff can be added if it's not there
02:43 PM roycroft: the primary criterion is: can it run a linux distro on which linuxcnc easily installs and runs?
02:45 PM roycroft: and a minor criterion, for me at least, is: can it mount on a din rail?
02:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what would be handy is a howto for crossbuilding on x86 for ARM64, or better yet a package that just installs it
02:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 6-12 core ryzen are pretty low cost and lots of people have them, they compile a kernel in minutes
02:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so building for all these ARM boards would not take long vs the every man for himself approach that rarely even happens
02:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even with Debian
02:49 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that build times are particularly relevant for linuxcnc
02:49 PM roycroft: it's real time performance that matters, and nothing else
02:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: building on ARM can take hours
02:49 PM XXCoder: hours, and one time
02:49 PM XXCoder: (more or less)
02:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so many don't bother even trying
02:50 PM roycroft: and they should not need to
02:50 PM roycroft: install the os
02:50 PM roycroft: apt -y install linuxcnc
02:50 PM roycroft: bob's your uncle
02:50 PM roycroft: that's how it should work
02:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah somebody should do that
02:50 PM roycroft: i believe it's being done
02:50 PM XXCoder: wha, bobs my uncle?
02:51 PM roycroft: bob is everybody's uncle
02:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: instead we have the Rpi4 iso
02:51 PM roycroft: bob's brother is a rather prolific breeder
02:51 PM XXCoder: bob's brother must be busy
02:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for that Rpi4 with closed firmware that likes to speed step no matter what
02:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bad firmware, lousy manufacturer of the silicon, what is not to like
02:52 PM roycroft: even if linuxcnc is not in the official package repository for those other single board machines, someone can always make a .deb for them
02:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi
02:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi
03:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/SmartFly-Info-Quad-Core-Bluetooth-Computer/dp/B0772K2T8K/ref=sr_1_1
03:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like ARM boards with 4GB of RAM are around $90 https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Pi-Rockchip-Computer-Android/dp/B09TKNPPJV/ref=sr_1_2
03:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/youyeetoo-Banana-BPI-M5-Amlogic-Computer/dp/B08QSD48N2/ref=sr_1_1
03:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://pine64.com/product/rock64-4gb-single-board-computer/ is only $45
03:11 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://pine64.com/product/quartz64-model-a-4gb-single-board-computer/ $60
03:14 PM XXCoder: is camera interface same as one on rpi?
03:16 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:16 PM Tom_shop: GPG error: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org buster InRelease: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY EF1B07FEE0EE663EThe repository 'http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org buster InRelease' is not signed.
03:16 PM Tom_shop: i added the key and still get that
03:16 PM roycroft: apt update
03:16 PM Tom_L: guess again
03:16 PM roycroft: you have to do that after you add the key or change anything in /etc/apt/sources.list.d
03:17 PM Tom_L: already did
03:17 PM roycroft: and you're certain that you added the correct key?
03:17 PM Tom_L: yes
03:17 PM Tom_L: i copied the key from the error message
03:18 PM Tom_L: anyway. i'm gonna take a break from it
03:18 PM roycroft: maybe apt-key update ?
03:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/accessories/camera.html#hardware-specification I don't know, do they actually mention the hardware interface used?
03:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: other than camera connector
03:20 PM JT-Shop: dang that 240GB SSD is tiny
03:20 PM Tom_L: how big should it be?
03:20 PM Tom_L: M.2?
03:21 PM XXCoder: found name, rpi use CSI port
03:21 PM XXCoder: pine one uses MIPI-CSI 4 lanes
03:22 PM XXCoder: dunno because board picture, it has few of similiar ribbon connections
03:22 PM JT-Shop: no, it's 2 3/4" x 4" x 1/4"
03:23 PM XXCoder: ah "
03:23 PM XXCoder: I don't think RPi camera module can work on Pine A64 board and vice versa. The CSI in Pine A64 is parallel type and Rpi is serial type. "
03:23 PM XXCoder: respond to guy who asked same question as I did
03:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: YES
03:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah ok
03:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: have alink to the reply?
03:25 PM XXCoder: sec
03:25 PM XXCoder: https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=183
03:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Without a adapter the CSI slot on the Pine64 is to small for a standard Raspberry Pi CSI Camera
03:27 PM XXCoder: yeah I dont think there is such thing as "adoptor"
03:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_Serial_Interface
03:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Rpi dumbs everything down so it's hard to find the actual info
03:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: try to find the ARM soc docs
03:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/bcm2711/bcm2711-peripherals.pdf
03:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no CSI in the doc?
03:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I don't see a full datasheet for the bcm2711
03:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe the world would end if it were published
03:46 PM Tom_L: i bet it would
03:52 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:21 PM roycroft: perhaps the world would end, but would dogs and cats start getting along as well?
04:23 PM XXCoder: world wont end. you can take out humans and supermajority of life but life is stubborn
04:24 PM CloudEvil: It is quite possible with a tractable number of nuclear devices to impact Ceres into earth.
04:24 PM CloudEvil: Resurface it all
04:25 PM XXCoder: you'd have to heat surface to over 1 mile down in order to ponentally end all life
04:36 PM JT-Shop: deeper than that :)
04:37 PM * roycroft notes that folks are willing to discuss the end of life on the world, but will not touch the topic of dogs and cats getting along
04:37 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder, have you ever printed two colors with a single extruder printer?
04:37 PM XXCoder: JT-Shop: sure
04:38 PM roycroft: how would you do that? stop the print, flush the hot end, and install the second color?
04:38 PM XXCoder: pretty much. prusaslicer you choose when it stop and wait for you
04:38 PM XXCoder: just do purge till it looks proper color, then do 2 more cycles purge
04:38 PM XXCoder: way more if you change materials!
04:38 PM roycroft: i've thought about a two nozzle printer
04:39 PM roycroft: primarily so that i can print supports with a water-soluble filament for ease of removal later
04:39 PM XXCoder: modern 2 nozzle, you can seperately adjust heights
04:39 PM XXCoder: (basically you touch one nozzle down, then loosen other one and slide it down to touch also)
04:40 PM XXCoder: roy 2 nozzle is great if you always want one color and one dissolvable, or 2 colors
04:40 PM XXCoder: do a HEAVY purge if changing from pva to not pva
04:40 PM roycroft: that may be something i try when i get a second printer
04:40 PM XXCoder: or cold pulls till none of different color left
04:41 PM roycroft: i should go see if my jumbo spool has fallen over, like the previous one did a couple times
04:41 PM roycroft: i *think* i have it well-positioned so that it won't do that
04:42 PM roycroft: it's fine
04:43 PM roycroft: i haven't made it to the goodwill for a new webcam yet - i never got that errand done the other day
04:43 PM roycroft: perhaps after dinner tonight
04:44 PM roycroft: i don't like the extra space that the rollers require, but i do think that they're a lot better for the filament, and i'll probably keep using them even for 1kg spools
04:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cat and dogs will get along far sooner than Broadcom releasing open data sheets
04:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unless there is money and power in keeping dogs and cats from getting along
04:48 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder, what I want to do is print sizes in black like T-12 etc then print the holder in blue
04:48 PM roycroft: there are teeth and poop smells keeping them from getting along, both of which are more powerful than money and other powers
04:49 PM roycroft: to do it with a single nozzle printer, jt-shop, one color would have to be printed on top of the other
04:49 PM roycroft: it would be very difficult to have both colors in the same layers
04:49 PM XXCoder: roy dunno my sis dog toby went along very well with her 3 cats she had then
04:50 PM roycroft: but it would probably not cost that much to add a second hot end to your printer
04:50 PM XXCoder: she now have 2 dogs, neither toby, both blue hellers. (previous all died of old age)
04:50 PM roycroft: in which case you could mix and match on the same layer
04:50 PM XXCoder: roy honestly id go for speciality hotends, not just have 2 hotends. unless you do seperate assemblies like that certain printer
04:51 PM roycroft: i don't know enough about those
04:51 PM roycroft: but adding a second one would cost about $100 for the hot end, extruder, and stepper motor
04:51 PM XXCoder: hold on a sec lemme get couple examples
04:51 PM roycroft: whether there's a driver for it i'm not sure - you might have to add one
04:52 PM roycroft: and then, of course, a special bracket to hold both hot ends on the z axis
04:52 PM XXCoder: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255800025235349.html
04:52 PM roycroft: having two separate hot ends would allow printing at two different temperatures, which might be useful for my example of the water-soluble support filament
04:52 PM XXCoder: wait wrong type
04:53 PM XXCoder: hold on
04:53 PM roycroft: for two colors of the same stuff that would not be needed, of course
04:53 PM XXCoder: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832673351741.html
04:53 PM XXCoder: correct type. look at rear picture. you can see set screws.
04:53 PM XXCoder: that is how you can ensure both is at same Z height
04:53 PM XXCoder: id suggest throw away heat break and nozzle and get real ones, but yeah
04:55 PM XXCoder: https://us03-imgcdn.ymcart.com/48400/2022/03/09/8/a/8ad6d448b641c0e8.jpg?x-oss-process=image/resize,m_lfit,w_1000,h_1000/interlace,0/auto-orient,0
04:55 PM XXCoder: this is example of dual head machine
04:55 PM roycroft: one would still need a second extruder and another stepper motor
04:55 PM roycroft: for pushing the second filament
04:55 PM XXCoder: yeah. however whats nice is latter, one stays out of way
04:56 PM roycroft: but yeah, that dual hot end looks nice
04:56 PM XXCoder: earlier 2 heat block hotend type is simpler to design for but yiu will need to find correct X axis distance for correctly aligning 2 colors.
04:57 PM XXCoder: i gonna go out for now
04:57 PM roycroft: and not only do you need a driver for the stepper, the 24v power supply may not be adequate to run two heaters simultaneously
04:57 PM XXCoder: also true for both
04:57 PM roycroft: none of these are difficult problems
04:57 PM XXCoder: most boards have bed seperate input, even if just wired together
04:58 PM roycroft: but they are things that must be addressed
04:58 PM XXCoder: you can seperate bed out to its own PSU
04:58 PM XXCoder: bed uses a LOT of power.
04:58 PM roycroft: i really should get a second printer soon
04:58 PM roycroft: this would be a perfect mod for it
04:58 PM XXCoder: printers is like cats. never get only one
04:58 PM XXCoder: ;) with that im out laters
04:59 PM roycroft: i just renewed my season ticket subscription for the eugene symphony, though, so spare cash is tight at the momen
04:59 PM roycroft: t
05:00 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (277KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/oueyySIDTnEjtUmbvmmBMWfD/unknown.png >
05:00 PM gywilo[m]: anyone know easy way to get po4a?
05:00 PM gywilo[m]: I've given it a whack and it has not worked
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: turboss built it after two attempts
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: didn't Seb mention posting it somewhere in the dev area or buildbot
05:04 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (76KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/BVMeJkkZflINgcTeliApKWlg/unknown.png >
05:04 PM gywilo[m]: I tried building it, did not work:
05:14 PM roycroft: water soluble filament is wicked expensive
05:14 PM roycroft: $59.99 for 750g of it
05:14 PM roycroft: and $179.99 for 500g of it
05:34 PM XXCoder: roycroft: it is. but there is interesting trickery based on that
05:34 PM XXCoder: you can use it ONLY on contact points of supports
05:34 PM XXCoder: drastically cutting usage of it
05:36 PM XXCoder: roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICt4XvXgbYI
05:38 PM XXCoder: video is OLD, but many slicers should have that feature now
05:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/DLI-APi-Atomic-Developers-Kit/dp/B08CGFM2B1/ref=pd_rhf_d_cr_s_pd_sbs_rvi_sccl_1_4/134-9696170-0808954
05:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://ameridroid.com/products/atomic-pi only 2GB of ram
05:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $44.95 USD
05:43 PM * JT-Shop relaxes with his Friday beer and takes 5 with Billy Joel
05:43 PM XXCoder: time traveler exposed
05:43 PM Tom_L: something is very wrong!
05:43 PM Tom_L: this build went way too smooth...
05:46 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, are you building a live cd?
05:46 PM Tom_L: no not right now
05:47 PM Tom_L: that project has been moved to the linuxcnc git though
05:47 PM JT-Shop: what are you building?
05:47 PM Tom_L: just trying a fresh buster install
05:47 PM Tom_L: to see if that fixed the issues i was having building yesterday
05:47 PM Tom_L: in the interim he moved the project
05:48 PM JT-Shop: buster is ?
05:48 PM Tom_L: huh?
05:48 PM JT-Shop: #10?
05:48 PM JT-Shop: I know from working so much with debian 9 it's sneezy or something
05:49 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc-live-build
05:49 PM Tom_L: have a go at it :)
05:49 PM Tom_L: he's not quite done with it i think
05:49 PM Tom_L: oh yeah buster is 10
05:49 PM JT-Shop: too busy, going to reinstall sid in the am and take notes so I can publish it
05:49 PM Tom_L: i was trying to build the iso for bookworm (12)
05:50 PM Tom_L: it's likely not necessary now since it's a package install
05:50 PM Tom_L: but at least i know i have a clean install to work from
05:51 PM JT-Shop: the only issue is mesaflash is out of date even in unstable
05:51 PM Tom_L: i just build that from source
05:51 PM Tom_L: that was actually next on the list..
05:51 PM Tom_L: along with your utility
05:52 PM JT-Shop: yep building mesaflash is easy sudo make install
05:52 PM Tom_L: you gotta add 2 dependencies
05:53 PM JT-Shop: just depends on what you installed before
05:54 PM Tom_L: clean
05:54 PM Tom_L: libpci-dev & libmd-dev
05:54 PM JT-Shop: aye clean you need a few dependencies
05:55 PM JT-Shop: do you know how to turn off x blanking the screen? I figured that out this morning or yesterday I forget
05:55 PM Tom_L: no
05:55 PM JT-Shop: seems even if you turn off the screensaver x still blanks the screen
05:56 PM JT-Shop: I'll show you in the morning
05:56 PM Tom_L: i'm using mate
05:56 PM XXCoder: power management
05:56 PM JT-Shop: me too mate
05:56 PM XXCoder: turn off blank settings
05:56 PM JT-Shop: turn off all you want and x still blanks the screen
05:56 PM XXCoder: https://imgur.com/DznOq4v.png
05:57 PM JT-Shop: like I said you can turn everything off that blanks the screen and x still over rides and blanks the screen
05:57 PM JT-Shop: what de is that?
05:57 PM XXCoder: thats odd
05:57 PM XXCoder: xfce
05:58 PM JT-Shop: debian mate has been like that for a long time
05:59 PM Tom_L: you got a fix for it?
06:00 PM JT-Shop: yep but it's downstairs
06:01 PM Tom_L: i don't worry too much about that stuff on the test pc
06:01 PM JT-Shop: it's annoying to me lol
06:01 PM XXCoder: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/651932/how-to-completely-disable-screensaver-turning-off-screen-on-ubuntu-mate-20-04
06:01 PM Tom_L: well of course
06:01 PM XXCoder: may be solution for MATE
06:01 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, the fix is downstairs
06:01 PM XXCoder: ok
06:11 PM Rhine_Labs: Ask how do Japan business make money? You ask is this part available they say yes! ask price silence!
06:23 PM roycroft: i suspect they make money by selling goods and services for a higher price than their cost to provide those goods and services
06:24 PM roycroft: it is "only" 34 degrees, and that temperature has held for an hour
06:24 PM XXCoder: fun
06:24 PM XXCoder: 93f here
06:33 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:13 PM solarwind: Every cordless hand drill I've used almost never manages to properly center the drill bit
07:14 PM solarwind: Is it just the inherent nature of jacobs and other 3 jaw chucks?
07:15 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: runout in jacobs chucks is never that great. Should not be a problem for a hand drill though
07:17 PM Tom_L: if you resort to a hand drill, the accuracy is of little importance to you
07:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: practice with a bent bit
07:24 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Just use bits from one of those import 101 bit sets. Bent, made of cheese, dull, take your pick of one or all three 🙂
07:24 PM Tom_L: or a good chinese one
07:24 PM Tom_L: same diff
07:28 PM XXCoder: made from high quality butteralloy
07:31 PM CloudEvil: You can often work out how to get chucking rather more accurate, by trying different closing pracedures.
07:31 PM CloudEvil: But they are not precision mechanisms.
07:37 PM solarwind: Yeah it's not an issue in practice, just annoying
07:57 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:57 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:59 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (58KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/MuTVGjcyXTOeBNntvOVThRGG/unknown.png >
07:59 PM gywilo[m]: yehaw; finally, I'm getting somewhere
08:00 PM Tom_L: no gui?
08:00 PM satiowadahc[m]: I always feel like that should be at the end of the make not configure
08:01 PM satiowadahc[m]: It's kinda deceiving
08:15 PM gywilo[m]: yes, I agree
08:16 PM gywilo[m]: when using the 'runtests' utility, will it go through and test all of the kinematics types? is there a description of what's being tested?
08:17 PM gywilo[m]: it's run quite a few tests but nothing looking related to the kinematics files yet
08:29 PM Tom_L: what's a good mirror site for debian 11?
08:30 PM Tom_L: seems none of the ones i select work for it
08:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: did you build po4a?
08:53 PM Tom_L: well first attempt was a bust
08:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: i use UofChicago
08:54 PM Tom_L: i usually do too
08:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sorry dunno
08:54 PM Tom_L: must not have detected the ethernet card
08:54 PM Tom_L: i had to manually enter an ip
08:54 PM Tom_L: 10 comes right up
08:55 PM gywilo[m]: yes
08:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: which version?
08:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: >0.76
08:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or higher
08:55 PM gywilo[m]: I thought 0.68 but not sure
08:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: something like that :/
08:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: updating po4a to the bookworm version (0.66) works (june 16, 2022)
08:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: more recent 29 Jun 2022
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09:10 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
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09:14 PM gywilo[m]: I'm compiling linuxCNC on debian 11.4 now; seems to be working
09:14 PM gywilo[m]: (virtual envs)
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09:17 PM XXCoder: roycroft: did you enjoy the cd video?
09:18 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:28 PM roycroft: i watched part of it - it's really not my thing
09:28 PM roycroft: i did enjoy dinner with friends tonight though :)
09:28 PM XXCoder: its fine, preferences is different
09:29 PM XXCoder: its interesting though, they "make" 3 different musicals and showing how it was made
09:29 PM roycroft: we went to an izakaya that makes wonderful cocktails and declicious small plates
09:29 PM XXCoder: showing final result after each section end
09:29 PM roycroft: yeah, it wasn't bad
09:29 PM roycroft: it just did not grab my attention enough at the time to watch all of it
09:30 PM XXCoder: its musicals, normally not something im interested at. at all,.
09:31 PM XXCoder: special effects is always awesome though. cd previous video about flight of the navigator was truly one of his best
09:32 PM XXCoder: good that you had a nice day though
09:36 PM roycroft: my first batch of grey boxes is almost done as well
09:37 PM roycroft: first batch with the atomic filament
09:39 PM Tom_L: gywilo[m], did you have any issue installing 11.4?
09:40 PM gywilo[m]: still working on it; will let you know
09:40 PM Tom_L: i had trouble detecting the network cards
09:41 PM Tom_L: 10 was a breese
09:41 PM Tom_L: realtec
09:41 PM Tom_L: iirc
09:43 PM gywilo[m]: it looks like it compiled on 11.4 on virt env no problem
09:43 PM gywilo[m]: no issues so far with 11.4 in harware, but have to take a break for dinner
09:50 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:50 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:27 PM gywilo[m]: looks like I am having an issue with libreadline-gplv2-dev
10:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/45884-2-9-master-on-debian-11-3?start=10#246181