#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 25 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:10 AM randy: morning
01:25 AM mrec: so nice now I have G83.1 implemented, G83.1 R0.1 Z-3 E0.4 (R start, Z target, E pitch), now pecking
03:54 AM mrec: pecking also works nicely
03:56 AM pere: mrec: there seem to be at least two standards for G-codes, RS-274 and ISO-6983. I would assume they can answer questions about valid notation.
04:32 AM Tom_L: morning
05:26 AM ritu[m]: Hi All.... newbie to linuxcnc here
05:26 AM ritu[m]: I am planning to use RPI4 with mesa card
05:27 AM ritu[m]: Any suggestion if RPI4 1GB variant is sufficient for the task ?
05:28 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:58 AM pere: ritu[m]: perhaps describe the task in more detail?
06:11 AM ritu[m]: I saw somewhere that 8GB RPI4 version having issues with linuxrc.... so want to know if RPI4 Modelb with 1 GB of ram is tested to be working ok with linuxcnc
06:14 AM * pere do not know
06:17 AM rmu: ritu[m]: i did run linuxcnc on a rpi model 3 with 1g back in the day, ram was sufficient for my uses
06:17 AM JT-Cave: well pinning didn't do squat for me so on to using testing
06:19 AM rmu: JT-Cave: in aptitude, you can search for the package you want to install and type "v", that shows different versions, select the proper one, and it should auto-resolve dependencies from the testing repository and basically leave the rest of the system alone
06:24 AM JT-Cave: crap testing still doesn't know about my video card
06:24 AM JT-Cave: like I said pinning did nothing for me
06:44 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:44 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:53 AM roycroft: we're having a heat wave
10:51 AM unterhaus_: wow, macmaster shipping has gone up by more than a factor of 2
10:53 AM roycroft: i haven't noticed that, but it's been a couple weeks since i ordered something from them
10:53 AM roycroft: gasoline is <$5/gallon here now
10:54 AM roycroft: diesel is still over $6, though
10:54 AM unterhaus_: I'm comparing to a year ago, which was already much higher than it was before
10:55 AM roycroft: well fuel has more than doubled in price vs. a year ago
10:55 AM roycroft: that said, i've always found mcmaster to be a bit high on shipping
10:56 AM roycroft: but their prices are really good - i should imagine that a lot of vendors, especially amazon, factor part of the shipping cost into the cost of the product itself
10:56 AM unterhaus_: I don't think you live as close to a mcmaster as I do
10:57 AM roycroft: the nearest warehouse is in reno, a 7 hour drive from here
10:57 AM unterhaus_: I guess you can't complain too much about overnight shipping
10:57 AM roycroft: mcmaster is usually 2 days ground to me
10:57 AM unterhaus_: it has always been next day here, which is outstanding
10:58 AM roycroft: i should note that although reno is the nearest warehouse, they've been shipping from various location in the bay area lately
10:58 AM unterhaus_: why go to the hardware store when you can get your stuff the next day
10:58 AM roycroft: which is about 10 hours from here
10:58 AM roycroft: well, eugene fastener now have a $200/month minimum, and i usually can't meet that
10:58 AM unterhaus_: I'm sure amazon hurts them on prices
10:58 AM roycroft: and the big box hardware stores rarely have what i need
10:59 AM roycroft: and when they do, their prices are 3-4x as high as mcmaster
10:59 AM unterhaus_: yeah, I needed 5/8" 18 tpi, fastenal laughed at me
10:59 AM roycroft: so i just plan ahead and order almost all my fasteners from mcmaster
10:59 AM roycroft: fastenal are jerks
10:59 AM roycroft: i would only go there if my life depended on having a fastener right now
10:59 AM unterhaus_: fastenall also has a horrible website
11:00 AM unterhaus_: it's a painful experience to go there to find something
11:00 AM * roycroft would not know, as fastenal are dead to him
11:01 AM roycroft: and grainger refused to sell to me for the longest time
11:01 AM roycroft: i finally got that sorted with them, and they promptly closed their eugene warehouse
11:43 AM CaptHindsight[m]: the Fastenals around here treat looking up prices as bother, they also have offered to regularly stop by to check my fastener levels and replenish them for me, as though it's on the same level as surgery
11:44 AM CaptHindsight[m]: what type of post doc work is required to be a fastener level checker?
11:44 AM roycroft: as i said, they are dead to me :)
11:45 AM roycroft: more than anything, they treat having to deal with hippies as a bother
11:46 AM CaptHindsight[m]: "I used to constantly struggle with knowing how many screws I had left. I tried counting and even weighing but it just didn't make sense."
11:46 AM roycroft: i have these nifty little hardware boxes now
11:46 AM CaptHindsight[m]: "If the bin is empty do I order more? How do you know?"
11:47 AM roycroft: i just look in them, and of any of them don't seem to have enough, i know that's what i need to order
11:48 AM CaptHindsight[m]: "the fastenal field tech came right out, saw which bins were low or empty and placed the order for me, I no longer had to count on my own"
11:49 AM CaptHindsight[m]: fastenal made counting obsolete
11:50 AM CaptHindsight[m]: 👍️ thank you fastenal
11:54 AM silopolis[m]: Just created a LinuxCNC Matrix Space https://matrix.to/#/#linuxcnc-space:matrix.org
11:58 AM roycroft: i used to have a scale with a counter function, but it broke and would cost more than i wanted to pay to fix it
11:59 AM roycroft: but it was pretty nice - you set a tray on the scale, tare it out, put 10 parts in the tray, press the set button, and it would count parts directly as you added more
12:00 PM perry_j1987: oh that would be nice to have
12:02 PM roycroft: yeah, all the hardware stores have them
12:02 PM roycroft: the real hardware stores
12:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: silopolis: https://matrix.to/#/#LCNC:matrix.org
12:08 PM silopolis[m]: CaptHindsight[m]: you mean this already existed ?
12:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes and bridged with libera irc and discord for the past year or more
12:10 PM silopolis[m]: Wait, but that's the room, not the Space !?
12:10 PM Tom_L: what's the difference?
12:11 PM Tom_L: what is the space used for?
12:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: closet , hallway, foyer, what is next?
12:12 PM silopolis[m]: Tom_L: looks like it allows to group channels/rooms like in Discord
12:12 PM silopolis[m]: The one I just created groups linuxcnc, linuxcnc-devel and qtpyvcp rooms
12:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: group, how?
12:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what features does it offer the user?
12:13 PM Tom_L: typically the -devel channel here is kept separate to help eliminate unwanted traffic
12:14 PM * silopolis[m] uploaded an image: (173KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/oWDCQUSHNhXyZvzaMhIGKtXL/image.png >
12:14 PM jpa-: i think the point is just to make it easier to find all linuxcnc-related channels
12:15 PM silopolis[m]: jpa-: Most probably indeed
12:15 PM Tom_L: well that just takes all the fun out of searching the ninnernet for stuff
12:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what if you group wrong?
12:15 PM silopolis[m]: Just discovered the feature searching for a debian room on matrix and stumbled on the Debian Space
12:15 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], you might learn about knitting
12:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: say I add #bigfeetparty to the space
12:16 PM silopolis[m]: CaptHindsight[m]: You can't because I'll never give you rights to ! 😄
12:17 PM Tom_L: that's not very sharing of you
12:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sounds like power and control
12:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so matrix is becoming facebooked?
12:18 PM Tom_L: why not?
12:18 PM Tom_L: the rest will follow
12:19 PM Tom_L: any better than a hostile takeover in irc?
12:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why can't they work on filters for our nicks?
12:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or other important things we need
12:19 PM * silopolis[m] uploaded an image: (95KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FxotaQDvsXZOhoWmYZQMlSUZ/image.png >
12:20 PM silopolis[m]: You add the space to your client and then choose the channels you join
12:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes i made the mistake of searching for debain-xfce
12:20 PM solarwind: Re toolpost grinder: think I can save myself a lot of trouble by starting with a 6" bench grinder instead of building the whole thing from scratch?
12:20 PM solarwind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8R6fgN-RsY
12:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: made me part of 30 channels
12:21 PM solarwind: I guess the biggest factor is bearing tolerances
12:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: glue
12:22 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, a bench grinder is going to suck for that application.
12:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: without glue the stone is a just a pile of powder
12:22 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] because of its bearings I assume
12:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: start with an air bearing
12:23 PM solarwind: Yeah I was looking into that
12:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: spare no expense
12:23 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Plus the motor/shaft is not likely to be balanced well enough even with good bearings.
12:24 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You can find tool post grinders on the used market pretty easily. They are not expensive used.
12:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or use a spindle for the grinder
12:24 PM roycroft: i ordered a festool product from amazon for 20% off list, which is not permitted by festool
12:24 PM roycroft: i just got a tracking number - they are shipping from australia
12:24 PM solarwind: Yeah I'm looking for a used one
12:24 PM roycroft: festool also do not permit shipping outwith the franchise area
12:24 PM Tom_L: that'll be 4 weeks out
12:25 PM roycroft: yeah, and i don't need it
12:25 PM roycroft: i jsut ordered it because i can use it some day, and the price was right
12:25 PM Tom_L: festool imposter
12:25 PM roycroft: i've never had amazon ship from australia before
12:25 PM roycroft: they've shipped from the uk, but they tell me that when i place the order
12:25 PM Tom_L: pretty soon they will ship you moon rocks if you order some
12:25 PM roycroft: if the price is right :)
12:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: have you considered mounting a mill on the your lathe as a grinder?
12:26 PM roycroft: i'd rather have meteorites though
12:26 PM Tom_L: there's a big one here you can visit
12:26 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] those machines exist
12:26 PM roycroft: some lathes come with mills mounted on them
12:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah but then you would have one
12:27 PM * roycroft notes that it takes about as long to load the australia post website as it takes to ship stuff from australia
12:27 PM Tom_L: http://www.worldslargestthings.com/kansas/pallasitemeteorite.htm
12:28 PM solarwind: So I'm about to order a pail of coolant from my fluids guy, but this is my first time, so I don't know really what to ask for
12:28 PM Tom_L: one of the few things that suvived after the tornado wiped the whole town out
12:28 PM Tom_L: solarwind, coolant
12:28 PM solarwind: There are probably various grades and a million different kinds. What's the "standard"?
12:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: World's Largest Pallasite Meteorite, on earth?
12:29 PM Tom_L: it's rather large
12:29 PM solarwind: Tom_L lol! Ok I'll go with that
12:29 PM Tom_L: solarwind, i use this http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Rustlick1.jpg
12:30 PM solarwind: Nice. Two questions: do I have to clean it off the slide ways at the end of the day or is it ok to just leave it on there? I'm assuming it has corrosion inhibitors
12:30 PM solarwind: I'll start with spraying it as a mist and not worry about recycling
12:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: will you be wearing a respirator?
12:31 PM solarwind: and 2. does it mess with the resin/bonding agent in grinding wheels?
12:31 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] now that you mention it, yeah, I have 3M organic vapour cartridges
12:32 PM Tom_L: solarwind, my bud has flood coolant and he just lets it sit
12:32 PM Tom_L: i have mist and do the same but put a light coat of oil on things just because
12:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unlikely to have much effect on the adhesive/epoxy
12:32 PM solarwind: I guess they really nailed the formula by this point
12:32 PM Tom_L: 4 oz /gal
12:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I inherited drums of spindle and way oil, if you need any
12:34 PM perry_j1987: i got a 5 gallon bucket of concentrate for free
12:34 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] nice. I bought a 20L pail of Accuflo TK 68, it's my favourite slideway oil
12:35 PM perry_j1987: local cnc shop said some company ordered it and never picked it up all paid for asked if i wanted it lol
12:35 PM solarwind: Lots of tackifiers and you can definitely feel the difference on manual machines
12:35 PM perry_j1987: green-cut solution
12:35 PM solarwind: So much so that I really need to add slide way locks on my lathe. Not sure why it didn't come with locks
12:36 PM solarwind: The oil Is so good, the carriage can be pushed with just my finger along the bed
12:37 PM roycroft: many lathes do not come with a carriage lock
12:39 PM solarwind: Yeah, I wonder why, the Y axis definitely gets pushed back as you move along a turning operation
12:40 PM solarwind: Especially with negative rake tools
12:42 PM solarwind: Found a tool post grinder for $200: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/kitchener-waterloo/tool-post-grinder-lathe-attachment/1625134975
12:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: all the MCS990x PCIe LPTcards seem to report the incorrect vendor and product IDs as seen with lspci -vv. They show up as a000:2000 instead of 9710:9900.
12:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: odd problem with PCIe LPT cards now
12:52 PM * ZincBoy[CAON][m] uploaded an image: (1103KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/hFfulgcbOYLZlUbXkgBOfaIv/IMG_1365.jpg >
12:52 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Since it looks like you are in my neck of the woods, I have one that you can have for free. I don't know what shape it is in though. It was part of a lot that had some other things I wanted.
12:53 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] WOW that would be amazing!
12:56 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] I sent you a PM
12:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: byzantine or roman era grinder?
12:57 PM solarwind: Doesn't matter, that's really generous and it looks really good
12:58 PM solarwind: Would love to have that
12:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the gem box looks like a later addition
12:58 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I am on discord so I don't know how the PMs transfer over
12:59 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: It is older for sure but I figure it should be good as a starting point at least.
12:59 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] I have discord too, what's your username?
12:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: broken in and the castings have settled
01:00 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Same as you see: ZincBoy[CA, ON]
01:02 PM solarwind: ZincBoy[CAON][m] I think you have to provide the # part that comes after your name
01:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: #0663
01:03 PM solarwind: thanks, ZincBoy[CAON][m] sent you a request
01:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 1.00 Canadian Dollar = 0.77852945 US Dollars
01:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09000266
01:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.zoro.com/dynabrade-electric-belt-grinder-115-v-4-in-64000/i/G9873753/
01:19 PM roycroft: those things are insanely expensive new
01:19 PM roycroft: most not that expensive, but they're always well into 4 figures
01:20 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: FYI, I got this grinder as part of a $50 lot that had a bunch of other things I actually wanted. Used grinders of unknown manufacturer do not command a high price 🙂
01:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djrNd5HVVN4
01:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the extra $10K might be for the jiggle action
01:24 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: For when you really want to automate that hand polished emery cloth finish?
01:25 PM roycroft: and as always, the east coast heat wave is making national headlines, while the northwest heatwave, which is not only just as intense as the east one, but is also more out of the norm, is being ignored
01:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: neighbor has been routing the past 4 hours, why does it always sound more annoying when it's someone else making the noise?
01:27 PM roycroft: because when you're making the noise you're wearing earplugs?
01:27 PM roycroft: i have to go to the hardwood store in my not air-conditioned van
01:27 PM roycroft: i think i'll do that now, before the heat of the day
01:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: our heat blast ended only high 70's today and most of the week
01:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: low 20's for the metric folks
01:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have a spare USB racing wheel and pedal set, will try to get them working with LCNC
01:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: should the accelerator hold the feed rate or should it slow down when released like a car coasts down?
01:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and how to control Z? Maybe a flight stick is a better choice
01:40 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Gearshift to change tools?
01:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why not
01:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or could be mapped to different ranges of feed rate
01:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or spindle RPM
01:49 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Motion simulator that uses an accelerometer to translate chatter into seat shake. Camera on spindle to provide 3rd person view of the tool. Gamify CNC control and have players compete to cut the parts the fastest. I think you are on to something here 🙂
01:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: chatter to force feedback on the wheel
01:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC the game
01:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or sense load on the spindle
02:07 PM jpa-: start rough cutting before the operator has finished the setup
02:08 PM XXCoder: ZincBoy[CAON][m]: some machines even vary spindle speed to get rid of chatter
02:09 PM XXCoder: since some of that is from build up frequence
02:22 PM XXCoder: roycroft: yeah last year deadly heatwave was ignored even with nymber of deaths basically
02:31 PM XXCoder: well I printed something to prop up AC vent cover
02:31 PM XXCoder: it'll be last print for a week or so due to heat
02:41 PM gywilo[m]: is anyone here familiar with stewart platform/hexapod kinematics?
02:41 PM gywilo[m]: I've been reviewing genhexkins.c with code that I wrote in python to do the same. I'm seeing some similarities but also some things that I don't understand. it would be helpful to discuss with someone who understood the code and math well.
02:42 PM gywilo[m]: my goal is to implement a similar but different kinematics module
02:45 PM XXCoder: cool :) well hope you succeed
02:47 PM gywilo[m]: thanks 🙂 its been a super fun project
03:06 PM roycroft: i could not find suitable jatoba or anything simlar :(
03:06 PM roycroft: walnut is ridiculously expensive now, which was my fallback
03:07 PM roycroft: i ended up getting a sheet of paper-backed walnut veneer, which is not what i wanted, but i can make it work
03:08 PM XXCoder: sucks :(
04:09 PM * JT-Shop wonders where he put the lcnc deb???
04:26 PM JT-Shop: hmm I should have downloaded a buildbot deb it seems
04:47 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, get the mill back up?
04:54 PM JT-Shop: no, just enabled backports but libboost-python is > than what's required so back to square one
04:55 PM JT-Shop: which is really stupid of a programmer to specify libboost-python = 1.67.0 and not => 1.67.0
04:55 PM XXCoder: thats way too specific
04:56 PM XXCoder: shouldnt it be editable?
04:58 PM andypugh: Which programmer?
05:04 PM JT-Shop: dunno, that's back in stretch
05:05 PM JT-Shop: XXCoder, it's a deb
05:05 PM JT-Shop: I could clone and build my own deb
05:05 PM XXCoder: isnt deb just zip file with package of files, with requirements file?
05:05 PM JT-Shop: dunno, never looked
05:06 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, time of day or availibility of the deb?
05:07 PM JT-Shop: I found the buildbot has some stretch debs I might try that
05:07 PM JT-Shop: Depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.4), libboost-python1.67.0\
05:07 PM Tom_L: yeah those are likely good
05:07 PM JT-Shop: there it is
05:07 PM Tom_L: try the 2.7 one and upgrade?
05:08 PM JT-Shop: every other depends has (>= x.xx.x)
05:08 PM JT-Shop: figures
05:08 PM Tom_L: :)
05:08 PM Tom_L: then copy your configs after the upgrade
05:08 PM JT-Shop: I just changed it in the deb so we'll see
05:09 PM ziper4: can you realistically start a small (1/4 inch or so) bottoming tap by hand?
05:09 PM Tom_L: ziper4, how good are you?
05:09 PM ziper4: or should I start with a taper tap?
05:09 PM Tom_L: i can
05:09 PM Tom_L: you need a taper first really
05:09 PM JT-Shop: I can...
05:09 PM JT-Shop: hmm the deb is read only :(
05:10 PM Tom_L: you can't change that?
05:10 PM Tom_L: like putting together a 2 sided puzzle
05:11 PM Tom_L: pic on both sides
05:11 PM JT-Shop: seems I can't edit even as sudo...
05:11 PM ziper4: I don't know if this is going to work
05:11 PM ziper4: I have a valve with a flathead that is totally trashed
05:11 PM Tom_L: ziper4, i'd recomend a tap guide if you're using a bottoming tap
05:11 PM JT-Shop: ah I have to unpack then edit then repack
05:12 PM JT-Shop: my buddy down at Revere has a pretty neat tap guide
05:12 PM ziper4: I managed to drill a reasonable hole. I don't think an extractor would work. I'm going to try left hand threads
05:14 PM Tom_L: damn electric bill doubled this month
05:14 PM * JT-Shop goes to check and see if Betty and Lucy have let themselves out
05:14 PM JT-Shop: wow
05:15 PM Tom_L: do have 3 more staying here though for a while
05:15 PM Tom_L: like a revolving door...
05:18 PM JT-Shop: lights on, door open... air condition the world
05:18 PM * roycroft whispers "edm" in ziper4's general direction
05:18 PM Tom_L: all led lights so that's not the big impact
05:18 PM Tom_L: more the door thing i'm sure
05:19 PM roycroft: so titebond make a cold press veneer glue that allegedly has a decent working time
05:19 PM Tom_L: we haven't had 100s in a while either
05:19 PM ziper4: the part is an outboard motor. I can't get the unit out without being able to manually raise the motor, but I can't manually raise the motor without getting this valve open
05:19 PM roycroft: i am going to go get a quart and do a test to see if it's feasible to glue up this veneer in the heat we're enduring
05:19 PM Tom_L: ziper4, thermite is your friend
05:19 PM roycroft: thermite is overkill
05:19 PM roycroft: a sawzall will do fine
05:20 PM Tom_L: sounds like he may wanna keep it though
05:20 PM roycroft: or you can ring up the fire brigade and ask to use their jaws of life
05:20 PM ziper4: bolt depot doesn't carry left hand bolts, and mcmaster wants 15 dollars for a single 1/4 inch bolt
05:21 PM Tom_L: get the old one out
05:21 PM ziper4: I'm trying
05:21 PM Tom_L: pics
05:21 PM roycroft: worst case, drill the old one out a bit oversize and install a helicoil
05:22 PM Tom_L: it's likely pot metal
05:22 PM Tom_L: outboard?
05:22 PM roycroft: worst case, drill the old one out a bit oversize and install a helicoil using a bunch of epoxy
05:22 PM JT-Shop: a helicoil kit prob cost $25 or more now a days
05:22 PM roycroft: and how much does an outboard motor cost?
05:22 PM XXCoder: probably can weld metal rod to damaged head then remove it
05:22 PM ziper4: this isn't mine, but it is the same concept https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/p1wAAOSwN2xhGc8a/s-l500.jpg
05:22 PM JT-Shop: $50k
05:22 PM ziper4: its recessed, hard to weld to
05:23 PM XXCoder: too too bad
05:23 PM ziper4: I can't drill it out, it would trash the sealing surfaces
05:23 PM roycroft: oh, i see
05:23 PM roycroft: it's not a flat head screw
05:23 PM roycroft: it's a *special* flat head screw
05:24 PM ziper4: a replacement valve costs 65 dollars lol
05:24 PM ziper4: so I don't even mind paying 25 dollars for the tap set and 15 dollars for the left hand bolt if it works
05:25 PM roycroft: i have one of these:
05:25 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BHJ7JM
05:25 PM JT-Shop: so much for editing the deb... I give up on that one
05:25 PM roycroft: it works brilliantly
05:26 PM roycroft: just get a slotted bit for it
05:26 PM roycroft: if you can't find one the right size get an oversize one and grind it to fit
05:26 PM * JT-Shop has an old school hammer impact
05:26 PM roycroft: i've never had a rusted/corroded screw i could not remove with that
05:26 PM * JT-Shop starts to lock up and call it a day
05:27 PM ziper4: I tried a harbor freight hammer impact. it sucked (expected)
05:27 PM JT-Shop: back in the day if you had a Honda motorcycle you couldn't work on it without a hammer impact screwdriver
05:27 PM roycroft: the nice thing about my tool is that the air chisel does all the impact work, but i do all the twisting work by hand
05:27 PM JT-Shop: prob any jap bike
05:27 PM roycroft: which sometimes requires a rather sensitive touch
05:27 PM ziper4: that might've worked before, but at this point there is hardly two nubs left
05:27 PM roycroft: i've had mediocre results with those hammer impact tools
05:28 PM roycroft: for me, they don't work more often than they do
05:28 PM roycroft: i think i still have one, but if so i haven't touched it in decades
05:28 PM roycroft: ziper4: you can recut the slot with a dremel tool and some patience
05:29 PM roycroft: a heavy dose of the latter, i suspect
05:29 PM andypugh: You need to pre-load the hammer impact drivers in the right direction before the strike. But they never tell you that.
05:29 PM ziper4: can't, recessed too far in the housing
05:29 PM roycroft: see the link i posted, if you haven't already, andypugh
05:29 PM XXCoder: I guess can drill a hole in it, then do inverse tap so it would force rotate it out as you trp tap it
05:29 PM roycroft: in my mind that's one of the most underrated, underapprciated tools in existence
05:30 PM XXCoder: dunno if would be effective
05:30 PM ziper4: roycroft, I didn't understand how that one worked until you explained it doesn't have any moving parts lol
05:30 PM roycroft: you attach it to an air chisel
05:30 PM andypugh: All my hammer impact bots have now migrated to my: https://www.amazon.com/RYOBI-18-Volt-Cordless-3-Speed-Tool-Only/dp/B08KFNSVWJ/
05:31 PM XXCoder: hey andy hows you doing
05:31 PM roycroft: sure, and those are ok
05:31 PM _unreal_: ok FINALLY just finished running the DIE down the 6 freaking bolts for this next part
05:31 PM roycroft: but sometimes you have a srew with a damaged head and you need to pound on it for a while before you start twisting it
05:31 PM roycroft: which is where the tool i have comes in
05:32 PM roycroft: it's the separating of the pounding and the twisting that makes it so brilliant
05:32 PM roycroft: of course, the best thing is to never let your fasteners get to be in such bad shape that you need a tool like that
05:32 PM _unreal_: so that was wonderful
05:33 PM _unreal_: just finished tapping these bolts to get them to be more all thread
05:33 PM roycroft: but i have to disagree with candide - this is not the best of all possible worlds
05:33 PM _unreal_: and I got 6mm instead of 5mm
05:33 PM _unreal_: fuck
05:33 PM andypugh: But I have a bit of a serious One+ habit now: https://photos.app.goo.gl/2GosCXXhxM9B1QwG8
05:33 PM XXCoder: hooked on drills ;)
05:33 PM roycroft: i have but one ryobi battery tool
05:33 PM roycroft: they make a really nice hot glue gun, and nobody else does
05:34 PM roycroft: i found an adapter on ebay that lets me use my milwaukee 18v batteries on ryobi tools
05:34 PM XXCoder: nice. i think theres few printable adoptors also
05:34 PM roycroft: that's not something i would want to do for a collection of tools
05:34 PM ziper4: how important is using a primer before threadlocker?
05:34 PM roycroft: but for just one tool it seemed a good solution
05:35 PM andypugh: Yeah, that drawer is the garage tools. The glue gun and another drill live in the house Then there is the circular saw (too big for the drawer) and the right-angle drill (bought since the photo)....
05:35 PM roycroft: it is important to clean the threads before using a threadlocker
05:35 PM ziper4: I assume regular carb cleaner would be fine
05:35 PM XXCoder: makes sense, dont want anything between threadlocker and metak
05:36 PM roycroft: i use the least hazardous solvent possible
05:36 PM roycroft: and acetone does a fine job, and is less hazardous than carb cleaner
05:36 PM andypugh: Whiskey?
05:36 PM roycroft: i don't drink whiskey
05:36 PM roycroft: but whisky belongs in my belly, not my threaded holes
05:37 PM andypugh: And I don’t drink acetone. That wasn;t my point :-)
05:37 PM roycroft: mineral spirits would be fine for cleaning the holes
05:37 PM roycroft: but it takes longer to evaporate than acetone
05:37 PM andypugh: Actually the least hazardous solvent possible might be water. Though not in this case.
05:38 PM roycroft: so if you're not in a hurry that would be fine
05:38 PM roycroft: the least hazardous solvent that gets the job done
05:38 PM roycroft: i should have qualified that
05:38 PM roycroft: and water can kill you
05:38 PM andypugh: It’s almost like you have never met a pedant.
05:38 PM roycroft: i can be rather one myself
05:39 PM roycroft: i find it annoys most people, so i try to play it down
05:39 PM roycroft: unless i don't like the person
05:39 PM roycroft: in which case i'll ramp it up
05:40 PM roycroft: i finally invoiced all that computer/network gear i sold the country fair last winter
05:40 PM ziper4: they make stainless with a black oxide finish?
05:40 PM roycroft: i should get paid next week
05:40 PM roycroft: yes, ziper4, i have quite a few black oxide coated ss fasteners
05:40 PM ziper4: do you like them?
05:40 PM roycroft: that money is for my cnc router, so i should probably get going on finishing the design, so i can start ordering parts
05:41 PM roycroft: they are more corrosion-resistant than the standard black oxide fasteners
05:41 PM roycroft: and usually have a smoother finish
05:41 PM andypugh: I just make sure that all my friends are pedants (they are mainly physicists) so we can pedantify recreationally.(and argue about the correct verb form of pedant)
05:41 PM roycroft: so yeah, anywhere that it might be damp or the humidity might be high for a prolonged period of time
05:41 PM ziper4: sure, but how do they compare to uncoated stainless?
05:41 PM roycroft: meaning, in my part of the world, "anywhere"
05:41 PM roycroft: they are an improvement over black oxide
05:42 PM roycroft: unless the latter are kept coated with oil or grease
05:42 PM roycroft: they look nicer in some applications
05:42 PM roycroft: they perform similarly
05:42 PM roycroft: they are expensive
05:43 PM andypugh: Black stainless it pretty: There is a black stainless but on this (thinking I shoulf have cleaned the lens, it’s all a bit hazy) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115474104418
05:43 PM roycroft: so where i don't really need the corrosion resisteance of ss, or i don't need them to be black, i use other fasteners
05:43 PM roycroft: but where i do want those two things, i'm happy to pay for the black oxide ss stuff
05:44 PM roycroft: keep in mind i'm kind of a fastener nerd
05:44 PM roycroft: as i think the $2.5k and dozens of hours i just spent on building new fastener cabinets demonstrates
05:44 PM roycroft: not to mention the hundreds of dollars worth of filament and countless hours 3d printing little boxes
05:45 PM andypugh: Do you have slots for Waltham and Holzapfel? Just in case?
05:46 PM andypugh: http://www.bodgesoc.org/thread_dia_pitch.html
05:46 PM roycroft: no, but i can always make some
05:46 PM andypugh: (Yes, I really did create my own thread table…)
05:47 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/24_Fastener_Drawer.jpeg
05:48 PM roycroft: i am printing boxes like that, and larger ones in multiples of the dimensions of the base boxes
05:48 PM roycroft: so i can add anything i might need at any time
05:48 PM roycroft: the box colors designate the material, and all the other parameters are printed on the labels
05:49 PM andypugh: What colour for alumina bolts?
05:49 PM roycroft: i don't have any at this point
05:49 PM roycroft: grey is for zps
05:49 PM XXCoder: what about butteralloy? I recommand yellow for that
05:50 PM roycroft: i use yellow for zinc chromate, generally used for grade 8 bolts here
05:50 PM roycroft: blue is for ss, of course
05:50 PM XXCoder: lol ok
05:50 PM roycroft: red for copper, white for nylon
05:50 PM andypugh: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/hex-bolts/2237248
05:50 PM roycroft: black for black oxide
05:50 PM roycroft: i picked green for galvanized steel
05:50 PM andypugh: At that price, perhaps you only need one for completeness.
05:50 PM roycroft: although brown is often used on fastener boxes around here
05:51 PM roycroft: i should probably come up with some color for "exotic materials" or "none of the above"
05:51 PM roycroft: and stipulate the material on the label itself
05:52 PM roycroft: perhaps mauve would be good for that
05:53 PM roycroft: or teal
05:53 PM andypugh: taupe
05:54 PM roycroft: since i don't have any brownish colors yet, that might work
05:54 PM roycroft: but i do have grey, although it's a medium grey
05:54 PM roycroft: i don't think it could be confused with taupe
05:55 PM roycroft: sadly, i had migrated from my desired grey to a dark silver-grey when i decided to try the shite filament
05:55 PM roycroft: 9kg of which is still sitting on my floor
05:55 PM roycroft: but i managed to print about 30 boxes with that stuff before i gave up on it and went back to the medium grey
05:56 PM roycroft: when all this is done, i may reprint those boxes just so they match better, and more importantly, so i'm not reminded constantly of that horrible filament vendor
05:56 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/gst3d.jpeg
05:56 PM roycroft: that is what they sent me
05:57 PM roycroft: the only times it doesn't jam in the hot end is when it breaks at the extruder
05:58 PM roycroft: meanwhile, i'm on my last print with the blue good stuff, and the 3.5kg jumbo spool is almost empty
05:58 PM andypugh: Eeew!
05:59 PM roycroft: last print for now
05:59 PM andypugh: No return option?
05:59 PM roycroft: they are ignoring me
05:59 PM roycroft: i have a dispute filed with my cc company
05:59 PM roycroft: they are ignoring them too
05:59 PM roycroft: but i dare not throw the stuff away until the dispute is settled in my favor
05:59 PM roycroft: which will be on 26 august
05:59 PM XXCoder: "smart" move by them to ignore
06:00 PM roycroft: i had just placed an order for an additional 10kg of filament with them when i got this stuff
06:00 PM XXCoder: andypugh: yeah just bad. all gst3d I have gotten was just ok
06:00 PM roycroft: i asked them to cancel that as well and they ignored me at first
06:00 PM roycroft: i filed a dispute on that order as well
06:00 PM XXCoder: so either they went shit on qa or it was just matter of timing with workers or evormental factors
06:00 PM roycroft: after which the cancelled my order and claimed to have issued a refund
06:00 PM roycroft: but they never refunded my money
06:01 PM roycroft: and that was almost a month ago
06:01 PM roycroft: i suspect they don't get dissatisfied customers initiating chargebacks often
06:01 PM roycroft: and that they just get away with ignoring customer service/refund requests
06:02 PM CloudEvil: That is ... an impressively fucked up reel.
06:03 PM CloudEvil: Is the polymer OK, and it's just fucked up diameter do you think?
06:03 PM roycroft: the little i was able to print seemed ok
06:03 PM roycroft: but it jams and breaks so easily
06:03 PM roycroft: and i even dried it out before using it
06:03 PM roycroft: although it should have been dry when i got it
06:03 PM XXCoder: brittleness tend to be from it being wet, but since his was well dunno
06:03 PM roycroft: this is what i'm using instead:
06:03 PM roycroft: https://atomicfilament.com/collections/3-5kg-jumbo-rolls/products/3-5kg-gray-pla-filament?variant=12892967108669
06:04 PM roycroft: it costs 3x as much, but it's actually a lot cheaper
06:04 PM roycroft: since 90% of that other stuff goes in the bin
06:05 PM roycroft: i'm going to go try to find some of that cold press veneer glue
06:05 PM XXCoder: roy honestly what id do is just dry it then print till it gets too troublesome and throw it away and go to next roll
06:05 PM roycroft: and maybe think about doing some veneering tomorrow, since it will be the hottest day of the year, and the worst day to do that kind of work
06:05 PM XXCoder: try recover as much as possible. might be lucky with some.
06:06 PM roycroft: xxcoder: i'm doing nothing with it until the dispute is settled
06:06 PM XXCoder: I know
06:06 PM roycroft: they may want me to send it back
06:06 PM XXCoder: I was talking about post
06:06 PM roycroft: yeah, i might do that
06:06 PM roycroft: it depends on how irritated it makes me to try to use it
06:06 PM roycroft: and even if i get a full refund, it costs a lot for the electricity to print the stuff
06:07 PM XXCoder: yeah
06:07 PM XXCoder: man I want solar power
06:07 PM roycroft: if i get 90% through a print and then it fails, that costs me time and money
06:07 PM roycroft: even if the power were free
06:07 PM XXCoder: here electricity is quite cheap
06:07 PM roycroft: there's wear on the printer components
06:07 PM XXCoder: yeah
06:07 PM roycroft: and time
06:07 PM roycroft: time is never free
06:07 PM roycroft: and when you get older, time becomes even more valuable
06:08 PM roycroft: when i was your age i had not crossed anything off my bucket list that i hadn't done
06:08 PM roycroft: i'm starting to do that now, to keep the bucket list realistic
06:09 PM * roycroft heads out into the heat
06:09 PM XXCoder: stay safe roy
06:11 PM srk- is now known as srk
06:42 PM perry_j1987: got question
06:42 PM perry_j1987: i got this gang tooling here
06:42 PM XXCoder: ask away
06:43 PM perry_j1987: touch off on tool 1 is all i'd like to do to verify everything is still good
06:43 PM perry_j1987: is there a way i can set all the other tools off tool 1
06:43 PM perry_j1987: for X
06:45 PM andypugh: Yes. Touch-off Tool1 into G54, (make sure it has an offet of zero in the tool table)
06:46 PM andypugh: Then touch off the other tools into the tool table.
06:48 PM perry_j1987: ok so tool1 loaded then touchoff not tool touch off
06:48 PM perry_j1987: put it into g54
06:48 PM andypugh: So, G10 L1 P1 X(measured diamter of a test cut)
06:48 PM andypugh: Sorry, ignore that…
06:48 PM andypugh: G10 L1 P1 X0 Z0 (sero-out the tool rable for tool 1)
06:49 PM andypugh: Then make a test cut and touch-off T1 to zero in Z and measured dia in X
06:50 PM andypugh: Then taje your next tool, and touch-off with a dowel to Z and a test-cut diameter in X (into the tool table)
06:50 PM andypugh: But, that’s as much as I can give you, I really need to be asleep now.
07:10 PM perry_j1987: gah lost internet out at the shop
07:10 PM perry_j1987: ok last thing iseen was [06:48:10 pm] andypugh: So, G10 L1 P1 X(measured diamter of a test cut)
07:10 PM XXCoder: perry_j1987: check that site
07:11 PM perry_j1987: ty reading back
07:11 PM XXCoder: welcome
07:13 PM perry_j1987: hmm do you understand what he was saying
07:13 PM XXCoder: not really
07:15 PM perry_j1987: hmm
07:42 PM roycroft: the last batch of blue boxes (for now) will be finished tonight
07:42 PM XXCoder: nice
07:42 PM XXCoder: glad you come back form shop hell lol
07:43 PM roycroft: and the grey filament will arrive tomorrow
07:43 PM roycroft: i even got some glue that should work
07:43 PM roycroft: i got liquid hide glue
07:44 PM roycroft: the warmer it is the thinner the glue gets
07:44 PM Tom_L: the kind you normally heat?
07:44 PM Tom_L: animal glue
07:44 PM roycroft: it is animal glue, but it comes in liquid form
07:44 PM Tom_L: all i've ever used is the crystals
07:44 PM roycroft: i have not used this brand before, but the folks at woodcraft say it works well with paper-backed veneer
07:45 PM XXCoder: its also reversable and nice
07:45 PM roycroft: i've used old brown liquid hide glue before, and while it's more convenient than the crystal stuff i don't think it's as strong
07:45 PM roycroft: i got titebond today - i did not want to pay for old brown
07:45 PM roycroft: and yes, if it doesn't work i can just steam the veneer off and do something different
07:46 PM roycroft: this is a fairly thick veneer, with the paper backing, and it's going on a surface that won't get a lot of stresses
07:46 PM roycroft: i think it should work ok
07:46 PM roycroft: i'm not sure how long i should leave it in the vacuum bag though
07:47 PM roycroft: with titebond ii i usually leave things in the bag for a couple hours
07:47 PM roycroft: with this stuff, maybe overnight
07:47 PM roycroft: i'm doing the setup in my yard, just outside the shop, so it is no big deal to leave it there for a long time
07:48 PM Tom_L: so the kids can play with it
07:48 PM roycroft: it will be underneath an ez-up, so it won't get any direct sun
07:48 PM roycroft: it won't be out front - it will be in my side yard, which is completely fenced in and gated
07:48 PM roycroft: and the gates are locked
07:49 PM roycroft: i doubt the kids will be outside playing tomorrow anyway
07:49 PM roycroft: not when it gets up to 39-40 degrees
07:49 PM roycroft: the forecast high for today was 37, but it's 39 right now
07:49 PM roycroft: and the forecast high for tomorrow is 38
07:57 PM roycroft: i have a time-sensitive project that i need to deal with first thing tomorrow, otherwise i'd just shift my work day and do my glue-up at 7am, when it's still tolerable
08:03 PM XXCoder: how about very late when it cooled off some?
08:03 PM roycroft: like 1am?
08:03 PM roycroft: i'll be sleeping then :)
08:03 PM XXCoder: well more tolerable anyway
08:03 PM XXCoder: like 11 pm
08:03 PM roycroft: it will actually cool off by 10pm or so
08:03 PM roycroft: and that is an option
08:05 PM XXCoder: prepping to cut some time yeah good idea
08:05 PM roycroft: it's not going to get down to 21 degrees until 1am
08:06 PM roycroft: it will still be 30 at 9pm
08:06 PM roycroft: 27 at 10pm
08:06 PM roycroft: that's too hot, although nothing like it is right now
08:11 PM roycroft: i still have this coil of sunlu black filament, and i think i might have thrown away the two-piece spool for it
08:12 PM roycroft: i'd rather not coil it up by hand on one of my empty spools
08:15 PM XXCoder: you'd have to do it twice
08:16 PM XXCoder: so theres less internal stresses to expand and overlap
08:16 PM roycroft: the first spool of the stuff was a disaster
08:16 PM roycroft: not as bad as the gst3d, but still pretty bad
08:16 PM roycroft: i might just toss this stuff
08:19 PM * roycroft has gone down the path of cheap filament twice now, and has found it twisty, jagged thing that is full of peril, and has finally emerged on the straight and narrow path of expensiveness
08:20 PM XXCoder: lol
08:20 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Cheap filament is too expensive to use so I use the expensive stuff and save money 🙂
08:20 PM roycroft: exactly
08:20 PM XXCoder: yeah we used many cheap filaments and sunlu was only problemic ones we had
08:20 PM roycroft: and i knew that all along
08:20 PM roycroft: but i had to go down that other path to be absolutely certain
08:21 PM roycroft: now i know
08:21 PM roycroft: and besides
08:21 PM roycroft: gst3d nor sunlu send me gummi bears with my filament
08:21 PM roycroft: so screw them!
08:21 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Always the difference between cheap and inexpensive.
08:21 PM roycroft: neither gst3d, that is
08:21 PM roycroft: atomic *always* send gummi bears
08:23 PM XXCoder: oh yeah they do. been long while since last ordered from em
08:29 PM roycroft: i still don't know how gst3d could even ship a spool of filament that looks like what i got
08:30 PM roycroft: it's like they have no quality control at all
08:31 PM XXCoder: agreed
08:31 PM XXCoder: ones I have its wound ok, and reasonable stright
08:32 PM XXCoder: so far, never failed us too
08:32 PM roycroft: btw, i'm at a point where if you want to share that picture with folks i'm ok with it
08:33 PM XXCoder: ok
08:33 PM srk- is now known as srk
08:33 PM roycroft: i still want to let you know the final resolution, but since gst3d are not responding at all, i'm find with that picture going out and folks knowing they send stuff like that and then do not respond to customer service queries about it
08:34 PM roycroft: they have had plenty of opportunity to make good on the problem
08:34 PM roycroft: i won't guarantee that i'll leave that picture on my website forever, but i'm not planning on taking it down any time soon
08:35 PM XXCoder: yeah. if it was quickly fixed and new batch is better (more like mine) id assume it was just bad run
08:35 PM roycroft: feel free to download it if you want to be sure you have a copy
08:35 PM XXCoder: yeah getting it
08:35 PM roycroft: yes, and that kind of stuff happens
08:35 PM roycroft: it happens to the best vendors
08:35 PM roycroft: but what makes a vendor one of the best is how they own up to problems like that
08:36 PM roycroft: i don't think i can categorize gst3d as one of the best at this point
08:36 PM XXCoder: i already didnt, but I certainly put it few pegs down from what it was at
08:38 PM roycroft: rep glenn thompson (r, pennsylvania) voted against the house bill to protect same sex marriage
08:38 PM roycroft: then he attended his gay son's wedding
08:39 PM * XXCoder facepalms
08:40 PM roycroft: anyway, time to put dinner on the barbie
08:40 PM roycroft: my stove will not be used until the heat wave is over
08:41 PM roycroft: after dinner i'll start setting up for veneering, but i probably won't have it ready to night - i still have to cut the veneer to size and cut the substrate to size
08:41 PM roycroft: but i'll try to get it all prepped tonight
08:41 PM roycroft: maybe tomorrow i'll wait until 10pm to do the actual glue-up
08:41 PM roycroft: i don't need to do any of this immediately, but i don't want to wait a week to do it
08:42 PM roycroft: i really should try to find some timing gears tonight so i can start on a rack and pinion design for my cnc router y axis
08:46 PM roycroft: holy moly
08:47 PM roycroft: joni mitchell made a surprise appearance at the newport folk festival, and did a full set of 13 songs with brandi carlisle
08:47 PM roycroft: she hasn't done a concert in over 20 years
08:48 PM roycroft: and has hardly done anything in public since her brain aneurysm a few years ago
08:48 PM * roycroft saw her in '74, when she was touring with tom scott and the la express
08:48 PM roycroft: i would love to see her perform again
08:49 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aqGjaFDTxQ&t=312s
08:51 PM roycroft: that brought tears to my eyes
08:52 PM roycroft: i've been listening to her music for 55 years
08:52 PM roycroft: and still play her albums often
08:53 PM * ZincBoy[CAON][m] uploaded an image: (648KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/YCWxvFUTrHdOSiMqNZHqMOAX/IMG_1369.jpg >
08:53 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: This evenings parts fresh off the mill. Just a few critical dimensions but surface finish is important as these are heat spreaders and need good contact.
08:55 PM ziper4: will you polish them?
08:56 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: No, I could lap them but they are not that critical. Thermal compound will fill in the gaps.
08:57 PM Tom_L: just the center square make contact?
08:57 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I did try one just to see and they come out to a mirror finish just with some metal polish and a cloth.
08:58 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, just the center will make contact.
08:58 PM Tom_L: the mill circles where the tool lifted?
08:59 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Where it dropped down actually. It seems I have a couple um of overshoot when plunging.
09:00 PM Tom_L: try ramp?
09:00 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Not too bad for a 40 year old machine 🙂
09:00 PM Tom_L: doesn't matter there anyway
09:00 PM Tom_L: nope
09:01 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have and that fixes it. But yes, I didn't want to add to the cycle time by adding a ramp where it really doesn't matter.
09:01 PM Tom_L: yep
09:05 PM Tom_L: how are you holding them to do the full perimeter?
09:05 PM Tom_L: softjaws?
09:05 PM Tom_L: then flip and do the bottom
09:06 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I machine the flat side with the counter bored holes in the first op. The second up is in softjaws.
09:07 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: There were almost enough that I wanted to make a fixture to 6 at a time but it wasn't quite worth it.
09:07 PM Tom_L: do you interpolate the hole chamfers or use a larger chamfer bit and plunge?
09:07 PM Tom_L: just curious...
09:07 PM Tom_L: quicker to plunge but i usually interpolate chamfers
09:09 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The top side were interpolated. The bottom were plunge. I only had a 1/4" chamfer mill loaded in the machine. I plunge when I can as it is faster and gives a better result in small holes.
09:10 PM Tom_L: it's always interesting to me to see how ppl do things differently
09:10 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: All of the other chamfers on the bottom were done with a 1/4" ball nose mill and a multiaxis deburring op. Only 3 axis are used but it is the same calculation routine as a 5 axis deburr.
09:10 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cutters/counterbore2.jpg
09:11 PM Tom_L: i used those when building the mill plates for the linear trucks
09:11 PM Tom_L: they were used and free
09:14 PM Tom_L: seems there isn't much call for 3 axis in industry now at least around here. all the shops use 5
09:14 PM Tom_L: fewer ops i suppose
09:15 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, less setups so more machine time vs operator time. Machines are cheap, operators are expensive.
09:16 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't say either is cheap
09:19 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Capital vs operating expense. Capital is almost always easier to swing as amortization is much more flexible. Of course it depends on how the company is structured and what the accounting goals are.
09:43 PM roycroft: stuff can always be sold
09:43 PM roycroft: labor cost can never be recovered
09:43 PM roycroft: that is the thinking of the investors who demand a 3 month roi