#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 21 2022

12:09 AM jpa-: mrec: if it has the typical bridge rectifier on input, it cannot feed to grid
12:18 AM jpa-: but it is fairly typical for BLDC drivers to feed back to their DC rail when braking
12:18 AM mrec: jpa-: I'm discussing it in the ##electronics channel there's one valid point it doesn't come with a power cord
12:18 AM mrec: so it should be hardwired possibly it's a different product category I guess
12:34 AM roycroft: i has box!
12:34 AM * roycroft prints a batch of them now
12:35 AM XXCoder: yay
01:35 AM randy: morning
04:14 AM travis_farmer: Good Morning :)
04:48 AM Tom_L: morning
04:53 AM Tom_L: did your repo change? 04:25 PM JT-Shop: crap I screwed up the mesact repo... no wonder the d/l failed lol
04:57 AM JT-Cave: when I unzipped the saved files it created another dir mesact so it was 2 deep
04:57 AM JT-Cave: fixing that now
04:59 AM Tom_L: ok i'll dl later today and retest
05:01 AM JT-Cave: I'm also resizing the forum storage to 50GB and it might be down for a while
06:49 AM TheMightyFozz: Hi folks, slightly off topic but im sure the technical wizzards here can answer this question. I want to install IRC on my android phone. I am in the uk and would like a simple Google Play install. any good apps about?
06:51 AM JT-Cave: I use element on my phone
07:01 AM rmu: technically element is not an IRC client, but there exist some matrix <-> irc gateways
07:04 AM Tom_L: revolution irc
07:04 AM Tom_L: and juice ssh for that
07:11 AM JT-Cave: everything should be sorted out in the mesact repo now if you want to build a armhf deb
07:15 AM Tom_L: i'll grab it later this AM and maybe have one by noon
07:27 AM Tom_L: that looks better. i'll build it later this AM. gotta run
07:55 AM _unreal_: found one of my cad files I've been looking for finally. its a drawing that will be used to make the interface attachment between the z axis timing belt hybrid pully/bearing. Cant wait to get that part done.
08:15 AM _unreal_: sweet I'm up almost 2k on AMC :)
08:46 AM cncturnDE: Hi I caned find How to deactivated the Screensaver or energize Mode in BUSTER
08:46 AM cncturnDE: in Forum or Wikipedia
08:47 AM _unreal_: buster?
08:47 AM cncturnDE: Debian 10
08:48 AM cncturnDE: is Andyputh here ?
08:50 AM _unreal_: he's not on line
08:51 AM _unreal_: and lives in the UK I believe
08:59 AM rmu: cncturnDE: what desktop environment are you using?
08:59 AM cncturnDE: xfce
09:00 AM rmu: there should be some kind of power manager in settings menu
09:01 AM _unreal_: if there isnt then just install it.
09:01 AM rmu: also, https://forum.linuxcnc.org/29-forum-announcements/40212-linuxcnc-2-8-0-buster-iso-file-re-issued
09:02 AM _unreal_: as to power that should be under power managment
09:02 AM rmu: cncturnDE: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/29-forum-announcements/40212-linuxcnc-2-8-0-buster-iso-file-re-issued
09:02 AM cncturnDE: thanks
09:34 AM TheMightyFozz: does cortan steel weld to mild steel. i have tonnes of the stuff and want to make brackets. (don't know where else to ask)
09:38 AM roycroft: i think that would probably work as long as the corten is cleaned well to remove the oxide layer
09:39 AM roycroft: if you have "tonnes" of it perhaps you should do an experiment
09:39 AM roycroft: you'll need to figure out the current and rod flow anyway
09:49 AM TheMightyFozz: may just do that. its only for brackets for cable chain trays. i have about 12ft x 3ft of the stuff.
09:56 AM CloudEvil: I don't think it welds difdferently than regular steel if you don't care about preserving the corrosion properties
10:07 AM roycroft: every ally welds a bit different to the others, so i'd still do some test welds
10:07 AM roycroft: alloy
10:07 AM roycroft: allies tend to differ also :)
10:08 AM * roycroft started a print job last night, went to bed, and woke up to some finished prints this morning
10:08 AM roycroft: the machine and the filament are behaving as expected, finally
10:09 AM JT-Cave: hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go
10:09 AM Tom_L: :)
10:09 AM Tom_L: gettin ready to build the arm deb
10:23 AM TheMightyFozz: nice what did you print?
10:24 AM roycroft: i'm printing hardware storage boxes
10:24 AM roycroft: boring, but necessary
10:25 AM roycroft: i just built some new cabinets to store my fasteners and the like:
10:25 AM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/32_Tag_Holders_1.jpeg
10:26 AM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/24_Fastener_Drawer.jpeg
10:26 AM roycroft: now i'm printing the boxes to store the actualy fasteners
10:26 AM TheMightyFozz: ha, realising that building my behemoth router. I have various types of M6 bolts all over the place. My tool chest is full of stuff and my 2x A4 15 drawer filing cabinets are almost full.
10:27 AM roycroft: and i have a *lot* of those boxes to print
10:27 AM TheMightyFozz: Nice
10:28 AM roycroft: i would just buy the boxes but nobody makes them in the sizes i need, and that can be put together in a regular grid pattern
10:28 AM roycroft: it's really frustrating
10:28 AM roycroft: i found one vendor who sold them in various sizes, but they were not exact multiples of each other
10:29 AM TheMightyFozz: I use the makita MacPak boxes. i have been meaning to model storage containers for it for a while. i could do it in blender easily. but i might take the opportunity to learn FreeCad with that project.
10:29 AM roycroft: i.e. the ones that are 2x as wide as the "standard" size are mot exactly 2x as wide
10:29 AM roycroft: they're like 1.9x as wide
10:29 AM TheMightyFozz: Either that or model a replacement dust collector and cyclone for the little makita handheld vacuum.
10:30 AM roycroft: so i decided in the end to print my own, even though it will be more expensive than buying them and will take months to complete
10:30 AM roycroft: i also like the lifting tabs on the ones i'm printing, and the ability to attach labels to the tabs
10:31 AM TheMightyFozz: If i had that many to do. I would buy a laser head for the cnc and go to boxes.py for the tray thing
10:31 AM TheMightyFozz: https://www.festi.info/boxes.py/
10:32 AM roycroft: that could work
10:33 AM roycroft: i'm using different colors of filament for different materials
10:33 AM roycroft: i.e. orange = brass, blue = stainless steel, etc.
10:33 AM roycroft: if i made them out of wood i'd have to paint them after
10:34 AM roycroft: so for me, printing them out of pla works fine
10:34 AM roycroft: plus, i don't have to deal with the smoke from the laser cutter
10:34 AM roycroft: that many boxes would mean a *lot* of smoke
10:34 AM TheMightyFozz: I would use "A simple Box" https://www.festi.info/boxes.py/ABox?language=en
10:35 AM TheMightyFozz: I guess so. I wonder if an industrial extractor fan is expensive. Should be easy to make a shroud for it.
10:36 AM TheMightyFozz: YES very expensive. your way's cheapest. lol
10:36 AM roycroft: i should be able to print about 20 of the small (2"x2"/50mmx50mm) boxes per day
10:37 AM roycroft: i'm looking at a couple months or so to print enough to replace my old hardware storage, and most of the jars/boxes/bags of unsorted fasteners
10:40 AM TheMightyFozz: If that was my system I'd have to replace those handles. Id make some like these flight case ones, just for the coolness factor of everything being 3d printed. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Folding-Insulated-Toolbox-Replacement-Storage/dp/B096K2HGS1/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?keywords=flight+case+handles&qid=1658417894&sr=8-3-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQ0lTNzNIOVRPTjMmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA1NzE4MTAyN1pUN0dDNDQyR1o5JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkS
10:40 AM TheMightyFozz: AyMDQ1MDAxWVdTVjNRNDNUVktTJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
10:43 AM rmu: TheMightyFozz: you should really cut everything after (including) the last / in amazon URLs
10:50 AM roycroft: i don't like how the drawer pulls worked out
10:50 AM roycroft: i'll probably make new ones at some point
10:51 AM roycroft: but it took a long time to make those, and will probably take even longer to make new ones
10:51 AM roycroft: and i have other shop projects to work on in the meantime
10:53 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, armhf deb tested and uploaded
01:17 PM roycroft: my jumbo (3.5kg) spool of filament just arrived
01:17 PM roycroft: unfortunately it's too big to fit in my vacuum seal bags, but fortuantely it does fit in my filament dryer
01:17 PM roycroft: i'll probably use it all up in a single go anyway
01:19 PM jpa-: how much printing time does it take to use 3.5kg of filament? :)
01:19 PM Loetmichel_: jpa-: depends on the capacity of your hotend
01:20 PM jpa-: i know that on my prusa it would take two weeks of continuous printing
01:21 PM roycroft: probably about 4 days, with pauses during the night when a job completes as i am sleeping
01:21 PM roycroft: actually, probably more like a week
01:21 PM roycroft: i can print a 1kg spool in 2 days
01:22 PM roycroft: i'm using a volcano hot end and a 0.8mm nozzle
01:22 PM roycroft: 80mm/s print speed
01:23 PM roycroft: this is with decent quality (atomic) filament
01:23 PM roycroft: with gst3d filament it takes infinity to print 1kg
01:24 PM roycroft: i do try to time things so that i start a 9 hour print job right before i go to bed
01:26 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Supervolcano with a 1mm nozzle was able to use a 1kg spool in about 6 hours. I went to 5kg spools so I could run overnight without needing to get up to change filament.
01:36 PM roycroft: i'm not thrilled with the print quality i'm getting with the 0.8mm nozzle, but it's acceptable for making plastic boxes for my shop
01:36 PM roycroft: i don't think i'd want to go with any larger nozzle though
01:36 PM roycroft: i don't like 3d print quality, period
01:37 PM TheMightyFozz: would these be good to make my stepper cables longer? solderless connectors. https://www.amazon.co.uk/PENGLIN-Solderless-Connector-Terminal-Compatible/dp/B0B1MFBYG6/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3LVTXX7KSYR2T&keywords=15+pin+vga+connector&qid=1658428502&sprefix=15+pin+vga+connector%2Caps%2C89&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzUzNLTEZQVkhKOFdRJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDQ2NDAxS0lHSzNFSzJTV1I1JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MzQzNTYxV1FYO
01:37 PM TheMightyFozz: ROSDgmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
01:37 PM roycroft: i do not intend to ever make finished parts for sale with a 3d printer - it's just for making jigs/fixtures/etc. for the shop
01:37 PM roycroft: please do not post such long urls
01:37 PM roycroft: everything from the ref= part on is not necessary
01:38 PM TheMightyFozz: or will they cause trouble .. ..sorry
01:38 PM roycroft: if you're not sure, use a url shortener
01:38 PM roycroft: thank you
01:38 PM TheMightyFozz: im in a group where some people dont like clicking them. understandable both ways. i'll try and remember
01:39 PM roycroft: personally, i don't think i would want to extend a stepper cable like that
01:39 PM roycroft: i would prefer to replace the entire cable
01:39 PM roycroft: it would help ensure that the shielding is intact throughout, and would both help remove noise and remove a point of failure
01:39 PM TheMightyFozz: are the connections in the back of the encoders easily accessable?
01:40 PM roycroft: sometimes
01:40 PM roycroft: have a look at yours :)
01:48 PM TheMightyFozz: no, the connector is tiny. I'll never be able to connect that back up. must be some sort of machine that wires them up. Does the six core shielded cable have a special name?
01:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just had a 60yo start drilling into our front door, no knock first
01:50 PM Loetmichel_: drilling?
01:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he said he didn't knock this time since he tried knocking several days before and nobody answered
01:51 PM Loetmichel_: drilling?
01:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes drilling with a cordless to mount a new door sweep/weathertrip
01:51 PM Loetmichel_: ah
01:51 PM Loetmichel_: i thought to drill the lock out
01:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so it's not just delivery people
01:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if you door doesn't open when you pull on it then you just do whatever you want next
01:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Loetmichel_: was my first thought as well
01:53 PM Loetmichel_: if you are in the US i wouldnt have been surprised when that got the guy a greeting with a double barrel
01:53 PM Loetmichel_: 12 gauge
01:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they haven't made that connection yet since it requires thinking
01:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there will need to be several news stories about people being shot outside a door for it to sink in
01:54 PM Loetmichel_: yep
01:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: uhmericans are mostly stupid
01:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so fear us
01:55 PM Loetmichel_: considering the Police officers that were inverviewing my appartment neighbors when i forgot the keys and opened my door with my id-card at least asked politely if i do that often...
01:56 PM Loetmichel_: s/Police/german police
01:56 PM Loetmichel_: i would say that may have not gone over well in the US :)
01:58 PM Loetmichel_: They didnt even imply i was a burgular. Low probability that one would do that with 2 police officers in sight AND with his own ID.
01:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for many stupid reasons we have decided to place the police above the law here
01:58 PM Loetmichel_: they were just surprised that i opened the door in mere seconds.
01:59 PM Loetmichel_: <- "yeah, i tend to forget my keys every so often. You'll get used to open the door this way after the 20th time or so..."
02:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, watching your version of Cops I was surprised at how civil your police are there
02:01 PM Loetmichel_: oh, we have our share of asshole cops here. mostly those that have to do with the "lower class neighborhoods" or hate crimes.
02:02 PM Loetmichel_: but probably a LOT less than in the US, if i can belive the (probably heavily opinionated) news that get over the big pond
02:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it is well known that our Nazi's and other racist groups dropped the skinhead look and started getting jobs in police departments and other civil service
02:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they started transitioning in the 90's
02:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: that war from 80 years ago over this has been mostly forgotten here
02:05 PM Loetmichel_: <- has sen a report in 2017 or so about a police shooting a few criminals where the newscaster stated that the bulletcount on that incident fired by the police was higher than the whole german police force fired that ENTIRE YEAR... stuff for thought...
02:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, it really is that bad here
02:06 PM Loetmichel_: a report by and about US citizens
02:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I never carried firearms here but I started considering it to protect myself from a "good" idiots with a gun
02:07 PM Loetmichel_: IMHO your cops lack training AND some background checks, but i may be wrong
02:08 PM Loetmichel_: over here i wouldnt qualify for police because i was convicted of "stealing telephone minutes" from a neighbor 4 decades ago.
02:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Chicago is especially bad, the cops I knew that were direct neighbors or close relatives were all people with serious issues
02:09 PM Loetmichel_: (used his line to dial into mailboxes. the sins of youth)
02:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: a group of friends of my kids applied to the CPD and the only one that got hired was a gang member
02:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: others are proud of the fact that they are never first on the scene
02:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and they shoot first and ask questions later since if they get injured they might loose time on the job and pay
02:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but free and the brave :)
02:17 PM Loetmichel_: CaptainHindsight: i think its very funny that your guys have "to protect and serve" on their cars (do they still have that motto?) and german cops are often called "Dein freund und helfer" (Your friend and helper)
02:17 PM Loetmichel_: it seems to show a different mentality.
02:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah old signs, the supreme court ruled years ago that they don't have to do that
02:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: protect property of the wealthy, serve their masters would more accurate today
02:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what you might find obvious there is what people are blind to here about Fascism and Oligarchs
02:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they lack the ability to make connections, especi8ally if there are more than two dots to connect
02:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Loetmichel_: you might find it amusing that a pregnant woman here is using her fetus in defense for driving in the carpool 2+ lane when it was just her and her fetus in the car
02:28 PM roycroft: and in another case, a woman had a miscarriage the other day but her doctor refused to remove the dead fetus because that procedure is now agsint the law in her state (texas, i think), because the same procedure can be used for an abortion
02:29 PM roycroft: so she has to walk around with a dead fetus inside until her body expels it
02:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: waiting for the lawsuits on fetus rights to child support, tax exemptions etc etc
02:30 PM Loetmichel_: CaptainHindsight: probably depends on the state if that goes through
02:30 PM Loetmichel_: IIRC there are some states that heavily oppose abortion laws because they see a "life" at the moment of conception.
02:30 PM Loetmichel_: those states it could work
02:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: those states also want their invisible angry sky man rules to apply to everyone in other states
02:33 PM Loetmichel_: "bible belt"?
02:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Jesusland is another label
02:36 PM roycroft: we also have legislators openly stating that pre-teens who are the victims of incest should be required to carry their child to term
02:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sadly just areas where people are poorly educated and indoctrinated
02:36 PM roycroft: and legislators, and at least one supreme court justice, who want to outlaw birth control
02:38 PM roycroft: and yes, there is legislation pending in the state of missouri that would make abortions illegal for any child conceived in that state, even if both parents were not missourians, and the abortion procedure takes place in another state where it is legal
02:39 PM roycroft: basically, if you're travelling across country and accidently have sex in missouri they want you to be subject to missouri state laws
02:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: simply put, they just want Freedom to apply only to what they believe in, superstitions, complete fabrications (lies) and popular opinions of the ignorant
02:40 PM roycroft: i think that if you don't want to have an abortion then you should not have an abortion
02:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it doesn't have to make sense
02:40 PM roycroft: and if you don't want to use birth control then you should not use birth control
02:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just obey, conform and consume
02:40 PM roycroft: along the same lines, if you don't want to be gay married then don't get gay married
02:41 PM roycroft: if you don't like cheerios then don't eat cheerios
02:41 PM roycroft: none of this seems too difficult to me
02:41 PM roycroft: leben, un leben lassen
02:41 PM roycroft: und
02:41 PM roycroft: shouldn't that be our creed?
02:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "you want to eat Cheerios!, Burn the witch!"
02:42 PM roycroft: i'll even go as far as to say that if you don't want to use linuxcnc then don't use linuxcnc, and i won't hold it against you that you're using mach
02:43 PM roycroft: i know some may feel i'm taking things a bit too far there
02:43 PM roycroft: but isn't that what freedom is all about?
02:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nope Freedom is what i say it is :)
02:44 PM roycroft: "freedom"'s just another word for "do whatever you want as long as i approve"
02:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: their religious zealotry is being used against them to control them
02:44 PM roycroft: unfortunately janis could not get that lyric to fit the melody, and had to change it
02:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they know better and are holy and therefor better than you, so they know what is best for you
02:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC 2.9 Gentoo ebuild will be available soon
03:23 PM * JT-Shop was hungry on the way home and bought a slice of Hunt Bros pizza and a 2oz bag of smartfood popcorn and it cost $6.23
03:31 PM roycroft: i don't think i can buy a slice of pizza around here for $6.23
03:31 PM roycroft: and we don't have sales tax
03:33 PM XXCoder: pizza is overpriced when just buy a slice
03:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it was 2 slices and a can of soda/pop for $8
03:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: probably $10 now
03:37 PM XXCoder: 2 days ago I had quezlos sub and fancy tater. $20
03:37 PM XXCoder: crazy expensive. no wonder most of that reserant closed down. thought it was ALL but I was wrong
03:38 PM JT-Shop: wife spent $400 at the grocery store the other day
03:38 PM JT-Shop: HB pizza used to be $2 a slice
03:38 PM XXCoder: (note I didnt include drink because I do not drink soda. only ice and water)
03:40 PM roycroft: i don't eat pizza out very much these days
03:40 PM roycroft: and now that i am harvesting fresh basil from my garden i'm even less inclined to eat pizza out
03:41 PM XXCoder: pizza, I can eat 6 slices and still not feel full. I only eat pizza once or twice a year
03:41 PM JT-Shop: I only eat pizza out at Marco's but the nearest one is 90 miles away
03:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I make my own dough
03:42 PM JT-Shop: I think it's been a year since I had a slice of Hunt Bros pizza
03:43 PM roycroft: since the megaspools are too big for my spool holder i ordered a set of spool rollers to handle them
03:43 PM JT-Shop: I got a set a couple of weeks ago from atomic
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 55 lb sack of 00 pizza dough flour is $44
03:44 PM TheMightyFozz: I adapted that geared bearing model to direct my spools.
03:45 PM JT-Shop: CaptHindsight[m], better check the price today it's like $100
03:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/caputo-55-lb-00-pizza-flour/104CAPPIZZA.html
03:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: one thing that hasn't gone up
03:46 PM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/Antimo-Caputo-Pizzeria-Flour-Pound/dp/B003ASHHDM
03:47 PM XXCoder: amazon
03:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah, Amazon prices lately haven't been very good
03:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i rarely use it
03:48 PM JT-Shop: with shipping it's $75
03:49 PM JT-Shop: it ain't just amazon, walmart two NY strips $30
03:50 PM roycroft: i've had pizza made with italian ingredients at pizzarias that are certified by whoever that italian certification board are who do so, and i have not found any difference in quality or flavor at those places vs. some good non-certified pizzarias who use domestic ingredients but make their pizzas in the italian wood-fired style
03:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Walmart actually has some good beef, but prices were even high a few years ago
03:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we looked for local butchers and tried all their best
03:51 PM roycroft: i don't think the source of the ingredients matters at all
03:51 PM roycroft: it's the quality of the ingredients and how the pizza is prepared that matters
03:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: many were 2x the price of walmart but not really better, we did find the best local beef
03:52 PM * JT-Shop attempts to weed wack his way to the hose racks
03:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: surprisingly a local supermarket gets in large sections of frozen beef and sells it for ~$6-7lb, for filet, sirloin and NY Strip, but you have to get ~10 lbs
03:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: yeah, around here they tend to undercook pizza, it's taken out before any carmelization of the cheese
03:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you have to request well done, and really mean it
03:55 PM roycroft: we have a good local meat market here in eugene who carry a lot of organic, pasture-fed meats, wrap everything in butcher paper and not plastic, etc.
03:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah, similar but >$25lb for prime cuts
03:55 PM roycroft: well in your part of the world the crust is way too thick, and it has to cook at a lower temperature to have any chance of avoiding raw dough
03:55 PM TheMightyFozz: roycroft: This 3d printed metal cutting CNC looks awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctyLjOHg7Ag
03:56 PM roycroft: real pizza has a very thin crust, and can be cooked at extremely high temperatures for just a couple minutes and be perfectly done
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not really a fan of the pizze pie :)
03:56 PM XXCoder: is that same guy who made that massive 3d printer?
03:56 PM * roycroft grew up in the land of deep dish pizza, and always knew that it was fundamentally wrong
03:57 PM TheMightyFozz: I had a pizza pie in Italy. it was amazing. Looks like a pasty with crimped crust as well.
03:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i bake at ~500F on a 3/8 thick steel plate, I haven't modified the oven to get hotter
03:58 PM roycroft: i try to get mine a bit hotter than that, and i have a ceramic pizza stone that lives in the oven all the time
03:58 PM roycroft: the stone i'm using these days has a black glaze on it, and it does a wonderful job
03:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: most places around here offer everything from pan to thin crust
03:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: thin, double dough, pan, thick and stuffed
03:59 PM roycroft: when i lived in chicago, pizzaria uno and lou malnati's were the main places to go
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the pizza in a pizza
03:59 PM roycroft: and they both specialized in mike ditka heart attack style pizza
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: those are still the big tourist traps
04:00 PM roycroft: because people like to travel to chicago to experience heart attacks?
04:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but now just about everyone offers pan style with 45 bake times
04:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's just variations with or without the corn meal
04:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 45 minute bake time
04:01 PM roycroft: the only thin i liked about pizzaria uno is that i could go there at 4am on a saturday morning and get pizza and beer
04:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, Chicago and Wisconsin for dairy induced cardio and allergy issues
04:02 PM roycroft: i don't know what the liquor laws are in chicago these days but back then a liquor license stated that you have to close for one hour/day
04:02 PM roycroft: which was interesting, because you could have a tavern that closed at 7am for an hour
04:02 PM roycroft: and right next door a tavern that closed at 8am for an hour
04:02 PM roycroft: at 7am everyone would have to leave the first one and head over to the second one
04:02 PM roycroft: and then go back an hour later
04:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not many of those left
04:02 PM XXCoder: TheMightyFozz: whats interesting is its just belt system. not even double belt
04:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you have to head out to Cicero for that
04:03 PM roycroft: this is back when there were two drinking ages - 19 for beer and wine, and 21 for liquor
04:03 PM roycroft: and when the drinking age in wisconsin was 18, and in indiana 21
04:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: they even capped the number of liquor licenses
04:04 PM roycroft: you can imagine how trafflic flowed on friday nights in western indiana, northeastern illinois, and southeastern wisconsin
04:04 PM TheMightyFozz: I just think its great how its 3d printed at home and cuts metal. i like this guys videos anyway.
04:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah not much interstate drinking these days
04:05 PM roycroft: and there were commuter rail lines from chicago to indiana, so the kids would not even have to risk driving across state lines and dealing with the cops
04:05 PM roycroft: just hop on the train and go to the party
04:05 PM travis_farmer: well, looks like, as far as money-wise (from IRS Tax refund), i will be able to go ahead with building my bigger CNC workshop :) i just got my taxes back from the accountant (yes, very slow), but as soon as the refunds direct-deposit into my account (couple weeks or so), i can order material! :D
04:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: metal prices are coming down
04:06 PM XXCoder: finally
04:06 PM roycroft: i've heard that some of the stupid tariffs are going away
04:06 PM roycroft: like the one where we punish the chinese by putting a tariff on german tool steel that we don't make in this country
04:06 PM roycroft: or the tariff on scotch whisky because
04:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes all very smart tarrifs
04:07 PM roycroft: well, probably because windmills off the coast near a certain former president's golf course
04:07 PM roycroft: i don't know what the reason for any of that stuff was
04:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you put tariffs on imports so that the US buyer has to pay more for the products but tell people that the Chinese will pay for it
04:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this is done to favor US made products
04:08 PM roycroft: that we don't make
04:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but since the products are no longer made here the US buyer just ends up paying more
04:09 PM roycroft: i'm all for protectionism
04:09 PM roycroft: well, not protectionism as a goal
04:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so how did this hurt the Chinese?
04:09 PM roycroft: but as a means to building self-sufficient communities and reduce our consumption of oil for transporting goods all over the world
04:10 PM roycroft: i don't recall a tariff on maga hats, oddly
04:10 PM roycroft: funny how that slipped through the cracks
04:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sure, that is how tariffs are supposed to work
04:10 PM XXCoder: nor "USA FIRST!" hats made in china
04:12 PM TheMightyFozz: the irony, stuff like that makes me chuckle.
04:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm going to punish you buy hurting myself
04:12 PM roycroft: blah
04:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I don't think that you hurt the Chinese through empathy
04:12 PM XXCoder: more directly on nose, "Made in usa" labels, made in china. saw that one in person
04:13 PM roycroft: we have a forecast high of 37 four days in a row next week
04:13 PM roycroft: that's too hot
04:15 PM TheMightyFozz: technically for something to be made in the uk, the final manufacturing process has to be completed in the uk. so for example a car can be made in japan. the spanish engine put in in the uk and its branded as made in the uk.. ..is this the same with the us?
04:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: TheMightyFozz: saw a great poster with the irony of all the Freedom party freedoms they are against
04:16 PM XXCoder: roycroft: hows new hotend working out so far
04:17 PM TheMightyFozz: I Ignore them. bunch of loons to say the least.
04:17 PM roycroft: brilliantly
04:18 PM XXCoder: excellent.
04:19 PM roycroft: my third print since last night is almost done
04:19 PM roycroft: i just got a 3.5k jumbo spool of atomic filament, so when the spool i'm working on runs out i'll have plenty to work with
04:19 PM roycroft: and i just ordered another jumbo spool in a different color, and it has shipped alrady
04:19 PM TheMightyFozz: whoop. what's your next project after the trays roycroft?
04:20 PM XXCoder: wild guess, countertop
04:20 PM XXCoder: whats your plans on that anyway
04:20 PM TheMightyFozz: your probably the manufacturers best customer at the moment. :P
04:20 PM roycroft: i am not
04:20 PM roycroft: far from it
04:21 PM roycroft: but i shall sing their praises
04:21 PM TheMightyFozz: oh sorry i meant 3d printer project.
04:21 PM roycroft: after getting some crap filament from another vendor and having to initiate a chargeback because they won't respond to my queries about it
04:21 PM roycroft: but to answer your question
04:22 PM roycroft: i have to make the top counter for the cabinets i built, and i'm finishing a table extension for my band saw today so that i can more easily slice some long pieces of veneer for that
04:22 PM roycroft: once that's done i'll be working on my cnc router, which i actually got back to last week
04:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: yeah it's the only way some vendors learn, I've been getting refunds since they don't respond
04:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wrong or broken parts, I am not asking for much
04:23 PM roycroft: i was hoping to have that built by the end of this summer, but realistically it might be done by canadian thanksgiving, and more realistically, but usa thanksgiving
04:24 PM roycroft: capthindsight: they even cancelled my unshipped order, informed me that they had issued a refund, but never refunded my money
04:24 PM roycroft: fortunately i had opened a dispute on that charge as well
04:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: one responded after a refund and said that they don't accept open returns, how do you know if the parts are right if you don't open the package?
04:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so i kept them
04:24 PM XXCoder: roy yeah I ciunt as attempt to steal money
04:24 PM XXCoder: I mean, not returning money what
04:24 PM roycroft: yes
04:25 PM roycroft: i have confirmation that the order was cancelled
04:25 PM roycroft: but if i'm honest, i'm not sure they are intentionally trying to steal my money
04:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sucker beware
04:25 PM TheMightyFozz: not good. i had a similar problem with the suppliers of my ballscrews.
04:25 PM roycroft: i suspect, rather, that they are utterly incompetent and incapable of providing customer service or performing remedial bookkeeping
04:25 PM XXCoder: its why I said "count as" as it can be indeed incompency problem
04:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: you elitest !
04:26 PM roycroft: never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence
04:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how dare you demand fairness
04:27 PM TheMightyFozz: they didnt supply the end bearings. in the end i sucked it up and bought them separately. 1 star review and the company vanished from amazon.
04:27 PM roycroft: what i'm really hoping is that they cancelled my order and refunded someone else's order that they did not cancel
04:27 PM roycroft: because i'm getting my money back anyway
04:28 PM roycroft: but enough talk about that
04:28 PM roycroft: i have the good stuff now
04:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: TheMightyFozz: heh I had an Amazon seller reply to my review and turn down my return when I didn't ask for one, i just said that the part was wrong and I had to modify it to make it work
04:28 PM roycroft: atomic filament, made in indiana, usa
04:28 PM roycroft: and it only costs 3x as much as the shite from florida!
04:29 PM roycroft: but it's actually a lot cheaper
04:29 PM roycroft: because 90% of it does not go in the bin
04:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what is wrong with the filament?
04:29 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (25KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/yIJvHzswHLcZpppRYfEunOnF/unknown.png >
04:29 PM gywilo[m]: hmm, I'm trying to test linuxCNC on new PC for first time. I have downloaded the ISO, run checksum and copied to USB drive. Installed USB drive into PC and am in the 'select boot device' option menu. When I select the USB drive with ISO image, nothing happens, I'm still at the 'select boot device' option menu (back at option 1 instead of 4). What might be the problem here? Can I simply copy ISO to USB device like I did?
04:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: moisture, recycled material, poor tolerances?
04:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: it has to be bootable and how did you copy it?
04:31 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You can't just copy the iso to the drive. You need to use a program to create a bootable USB drive from the ISO
04:31 PM TheMightyFozz: fobbed me off saying that they couldn't understand my comment. Parts Missing. Need Bearings to complete order. I figured if someone is so desperate to not ship 15 quids worth of parts, they need the money more than me. and its not worth my time arguing.
04:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: do you know how to copy with dd ?
04:31 PM TheMightyFozz: Google Rufus. you need to burn the image to disc
04:32 PM XXCoder: dd command, triple check everything, including what you are reading from and what you are writing to
04:32 PM gywilo[m]: I just directly copy and pasted, sounds like that's not the right way
04:32 PM gywilo[m]: I do not, but can learn
04:32 PM roycroft: you tell me what's wrong with it
04:32 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/gst3d.jpeg
04:32 PM XXCoder: etcher works well, but is not open source
04:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: is this for the RPI4?
04:33 PM gywilo[m]: no, SBC x86
04:33 PM JT-Cave: etcher does have a bad habit of wanting to open html files for some strange reason
04:33 PM gywilo[m]: or maybe x64
04:33 PM roycroft: it jams, it breaks in random places
04:33 PM JT-Cave: changes the default each time you run etcher
04:33 PM TheMightyFozz: if your main machine is a windows pc. i recommend rufus https://rufus.ie/en/
04:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah ok, your pic posted with Rpi image instructions
04:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://matrix-client.matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/thumbnail/jauriarts.org/yIJvHzswHLcZpppRYfEunOnF?width=800&height=600&method=scale
04:34 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, new deb is up
04:34 PM XXCoder: JT-Cave: interesting. doesnt happen to me, but I always double check everything anyway. dont want to nuke os, or worse, my user data rust disk
04:35 PM gywilo[m]: Will take a look and try this. Thanks!
04:36 PM Tom_L: i've used rufus for that as well
04:39 PM TheMightyFozz: roycroft: it looks warped. almost like its been heated up and cooled again.
04:40 PM gywilo[m]: roycraft, is this for a 3D printer? looks like a big role of filament! are you driving the printer with linuxCNC?
04:40 PM XXCoder: TheMightyFozz: if thats the case, it may explain jamming due to annealing
04:40 PM XXCoder: gywilo[m]: so far I know, linuxcnc controlled printers is very rare
04:40 PM XXCoder: and his isnt one of em
04:40 PM XXCoder: nor is mine
04:41 PM TheMightyFozz: yes, also i reccomend un-spooling some of it and winding it on again. I had one that was wound too tight and just jammed.
04:41 PM XXCoder: may explain why mine is fine, we ordered em in colder months, near winter
04:41 PM XXCoder: dont matter as its too brittle
04:41 PM XXCoder: doubt he can do wind unwind thing
04:42 PM XXCoder: roy id try drying it, but yeah not worth risking your new hotend I would think?
04:42 PM TheMightyFozz: not sure what it is, but a dehydrator might help.?!?
04:43 PM TheMightyFozz: the end of it defiantly looks like heat warping though.
04:43 PM XXCoder: talking about drying, I got sunlu s2 and it seems quite good?
04:43 PM roycroft: yes, it's for a 3d printer
04:43 PM roycroft: no, i'm not using linuxcnc on the printer
04:44 PM roycroft: and no, it's not a big roll of filament
04:44 PM roycroft: it's a big roll of shite
04:44 PM TheMightyFozz: hahaha
04:44 PM XXCoder: need some more testing, but I tried drying my PETG that was way too soaked. it stayed at 40% RH for pretty long time, then dropped steadly till it reached less than 15% RH
04:45 PM XXCoder: then stayed there for while. I guess it ran out of water that can be removed by S2
04:45 PM roycroft: and my current print is almost done
04:46 PM TheMightyFozz: wind it onto another spool so the bottom is at the top.
04:46 PM TheMightyFozz: use a stepper motor. if you dont want to do it by hand. lol
04:46 PM XXCoder: fozz wont work, since it would resist wind size, unless warmed to just above TG
04:46 PM XXCoder: then it would release stresses
04:47 PM roycroft: i was not impressed with the sunlu filament at all
04:47 PM roycroft: in fact, i have a 1kg coil of black that i haven't even tried yet
04:47 PM XXCoder: roy unsurpising. I bought few LB of em to get very cheap sunlu S2 deals and bleh gonna use those up
04:47 PM roycroft: i want to do a bunch of boxes with atomic first, so that i'll feel i've made some actual progress
04:47 PM XXCoder: id do same also
04:47 PM TheMightyFozz: i don't know what to suggest... ..the kitchen oven. its fubared anyway.
04:48 PM XXCoder: melt and cast into wooden casts for cool
04:48 PM * roycroft suggests a chipper and a hopper feed extruder
04:48 PM XXCoder: use segements of different color on tops for pattern color
04:49 PM roycroft: one layer to go, then i can start on another batch
04:49 PM roycroft: and work is almost done for the day, so i'll be able to fill the ones i just printed
04:49 PM XXCoder: roy whats cool is you will have cnc router. you can make plastic formers woith those
04:50 PM XXCoder: just dump random segements and then press it down after tis heated
04:50 PM XXCoder: you got fancy colors plates or bowls or tv dinner plates etc
04:50 PM XXCoder: its a way to salvage useless filament plastic cost
04:51 PM XXCoder: just dont dishwash em ;)
04:52 PM XXCoder: just had a thought. clock face project lol
04:53 PM TheMightyFozz: I expect a link to a Melted chunk of plastic tomorrow. ready to be milled into the thing you wanted to print with it. :P
04:53 PM roycroft: right now i just want the old hardware boxes off the wall
04:53 PM TheMightyFozz: haha, salvador dhali ?
04:53 PM roycroft: so i can install my wood rack and quit tripping over hardwood boards
05:00 PM TheMightyFozz: has anyone used these connectors before. are they good? shorturl.at/eoSVZ
05:01 PM TheMightyFozz: www.shorturl.at/eoSVZ
05:01 PM XXCoder: product could not be found
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: The product could not be found.
05:01 PM XXCoder: google search links sometimes use cookies so cannot be shared. id suggest more directly product website or something
05:02 PM TheMightyFozz: Ok you asked for the long link
05:02 PM TheMightyFozz: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32845337080.html?spm=a2g0o.ppclist.product.2.1aad695I695IlG&_t=pvid%3A3ef6d116-044a-4c06-a18c-5081228007ed&afTraceInfo=32845337080__pc__pcBridgePPC__xxxxxx__1658440918&gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt
05:02 PM XXCoder: you can skip everything after ? for aliexpress
05:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: connectors are pretty hard to screw up unless the plastic melts with solder cup pins
05:03 PM TheMightyFozz: thanks
05:03 PM XXCoder: looks like standard VGA connector, db15
05:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Those are good connectors for an analog VGA monitor connection. What do you want to do with them?
05:03 PM XXCoder: 3A for ac, 5A for dc
05:04 PM TheMightyFozz: yeah My stepperonline motors use them i think
05:04 PM TheMightyFozz: 6a motors. but this is for the encoder, so i'm guessing its low amperage.
05:06 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The DB15 is fine for signal connections but is not designed for power applications. 5A rating would be optimistic for most real use cases.
05:06 PM TheMightyFozz: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/download/34HS46-5004D-E1000.pdf
05:07 PM XXCoder: you first apply aliexpress de-rate of 80%
05:07 PM TheMightyFozz: says DB in that sheet, so with 15 pins I guess its a db15
05:07 PM TheMightyFozz: de-rate?
05:08 PM roycroft: "the db 15" does not exist
05:08 PM roycroft: there is a de15 connector though
05:08 PM XXCoder: fozz yeah, since they often lie on ratings
05:08 PM XXCoder: I wouldnt trust 5A PSU to actually have max of 5A for example
05:08 PM XXCoder: I would get say 8A or something to supply 5A power
05:10 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Plus the rating would be for a single pin carrying current. With multiple pins you need to derate further. Most manufacturers will have this data available but not the aliexpress specials 🙂
05:10 PM roycroft: i don't think i'd want to carry any signal greater than ttl level with d-sub connectors
05:11 PM TheMightyFozz: yeah I am pretty sure its just low voltage signals.
05:11 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Technically it does. The DB15 is the two row wider version. HD15 or DE15 is the 3 row 15 pin version. 🙂
05:13 PM TheMightyFozz: well i think i found the same cable that is attached to the connector.
05:13 PM TheMightyFozz: https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-power/ppb0115/cable-7-0-20mm-6c-screened-25m/dp/CB23726
05:14 PM TheMightyFozz: hey i did it. copying before the ?
05:14 PM XXCoder: honestly, why cant you just biy VGA cable?
05:14 PM XXCoder: unless pins is missing? not sure
05:15 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: VGA cable is not straight through in most cases.
05:15 PM TheMightyFozz: I have some but it's around the same price as this. the colours are the same as my motors too.
05:16 PM TheMightyFozz: oh the stuff i have is quite rigid.
05:16 PM XXCoder: zinc ok
05:16 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: If you are looking for connectors I recommend Digikey as you will at least get something that will work. Aliexpress/amazon are a bit of a crap shoot.
05:17 PM XXCoder: well can always start with parallel port, then split off as it travels in cnc machine. ie first Y axis, use smaller cable to X, then finally just de15 to z
05:17 PM TheMightyFozz: Yeah i know. trying to find the ones to buy first. I will probably buy through amazon so i can get the machine running.
05:18 PM JT-Shop: I use PC Accessories Connectors Pro connectors https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SCX5I1S
05:19 PM TheMightyFozz: just want to know what the good ones are. don't want the ones that dont pass the shielding through it.
05:19 PM XXCoder: jt for encoder+stepper signal?
05:20 PM JT-Shop: for Mesa card cables so signals yes
05:20 PM TheMightyFozz: Yes. its for encoder.
05:21 PM TheMightyFozz: from the driver to the motor.
05:21 PM TheMightyFozz: I am running a Ethernet board.
05:21 PM JT-Shop: I don't see a DB-15 connector anywhere... DB-25, DB-44 and DB-52 are the only DB connectors that I know of
05:21 PM TheMightyFozz: nothing to do with signals from pc
05:21 PM TheMightyFozz: try it without the -. try DB15
05:22 PM TheMightyFozz: i think its actually a DB15 3 row
05:23 PM TheMightyFozz: somthing like that
05:23 PM TheMightyFozz: 3 rows of 5 pins.
05:23 PM XXCoder: like zinc said its actually de-15
05:24 PM JT-Shop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature
05:24 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: https://edac.net/products/db15-connector/168
05:25 PM TheMightyFozz: no wrong cable. its a DB15
05:26 PM roycroft: there is no such thing as a "db15" connector
05:26 PM roycroft: i've said it before
05:26 PM roycroft: just because a manufacturer mislables something does not make it true
05:26 PM JT-Shop: that's a DA-15, just because a store doesn't know what they are don't make it true
05:26 PM roycroft: there is da-15 and de-15
05:27 PM roycroft: the latter being a high density (3 rows of pins) connector in an e-size shell
05:27 PM TheMightyFozz: Zinc has got it Db15 DSUB connector
05:27 PM roycroft: i'll concede that "db15" could possible be an internal part number
05:27 PM roycroft: but it does not describe any existing standard connector size
05:28 PM TheMightyFozz: ok. so what ones are good connectors?
05:28 PM roycroft: a b shell is *much* larger than an a shell or an e shell
05:29 PM TheMightyFozz: the solderless ones look like they will introduce a load of RF interference.
05:29 PM TheMightyFozz: is it based on metric units? can i simply measure it.
05:30 PM * JT-Shop ponders the where abouts of the missing sprinkler head while watching chicken TV
05:30 PM TheMightyFozz: nope, thats just me being tired.
05:30 PM * roycroft has printed and filled 13 boxes so far today, and has another batch printing right now
05:31 PM roycroft: i think i'll get six more printed today in total, and then a batch of 9 printed overnight
05:31 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You are technically correct (the best kind of correct) but I have never actually encountered these being called anything other than DB9/DB15/DB25. I have learned something new today 🙂
05:31 PM roycroft: my goal is 20 per day, so i should meet that goal today
05:31 PM roycroft: zincboy: it's ok
05:31 PM roycroft: i've been trying to get people straightened out on d-sub connectors for close to 40 years
05:32 PM roycroft: and hardly anyone gets it
05:32 PM roycroft: it's not a difficult concept, but "db" is so deeply engrained in folks it's almost impossible to show them the light
05:32 PM roycroft: maybe more than 40 years
05:32 PM TheMightyFozz: yes thanks roycroft.
05:33 PM roycroft: it all started way back in The Olden Days(tm) when folks primarily used db25 connectors for serial ports
05:33 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The ones on Amazon/alixpress might be good or might not. There is no way to say as there is no real quality control. If you want a good connector, you need to buy it from somewhere like digikey or mouser that has a traceable manufacturer.
05:33 PM roycroft: and then the de9 connector standard for serial ports came out, and folks called them "db9"
05:33 PM XXCoder: roy what did joystick ports of old use?
05:34 PM TheMightyFozz: I'm on CPC as we speak. looking
05:34 PM roycroft: i don't recall joysticks being used on computers at all back then
05:34 PM roycroft: this was before vga displays
05:34 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: DB9 😛
05:34 PM roycroft: so before the de-15 was inuse
05:34 PM roycroft: in use
05:34 PM XXCoder: it was used in various consoles, like atari and c64
05:35 PM roycroft: i should imagine the first joysticks probalby had rs-232 interfaces, and so used de-9 connectors
05:35 PM roycroft: yeah, but i'm talking about before atari and commodore existed
05:35 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ha, no. just contact closures.
05:35 PM roycroft: early '70s
05:35 PM TheMightyFozz: OH roycroft wont like the zero results on CPC for the connectors. :P
05:35 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Before my time but most that I saw were hardwired.
05:36 PM TheMightyFozz: db15 works though.
05:36 PM roycroft: i was never into gaming
05:36 PM roycroft: and never had any interest in joysticks, so i did not follow their evolution
05:37 PM TheMightyFozz: My favourite game.. ..the game that got me into 3d design was Freespace2
05:37 PM roycroft: themightyfozz: i am a creature of the real world, and i know how to find things, even if i have to type in incorrect search terms to find them
05:37 PM roycroft: but having to type in "db9" to find a de9 connector does not make "db9" correct
05:38 PM XXCoder: freespace2 was a lie. multipath story game my back end
05:38 PM TheMightyFozz: Yep. i wont forget it.
05:38 PM XXCoder: loved game yes, but...
05:39 PM XXCoder: can hardly play games nowdays. I just play picross lately
05:39 PM TheMightyFozz: haha XXCoder you get it. the Linux port and mods are much better than the original. although the one thing i took from that game through life was the quote "I can deal with being a pawn if the game makes sense"
05:40 PM XXCoder: lol ok. didnt know such existed
05:40 PM XXCoder: not that I can play it now
05:41 PM TheMightyFozz: literally every employed job i had I said that... ...needless to say I am now self-employed. :-D
05:41 PM roycroft: it seems that the early game consoles mostly used de9 connectors for their joysticks
05:41 PM XXCoder: making games or what?
05:42 PM XXCoder: roy there was larger more pins version for pcs, that was very short lived because it was between de9 and usb
05:42 PM XXCoder: ah yes da-15
05:42 PM XXCoder: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Da-15_port.PNG
05:43 PM XXCoder: "game port"
05:43 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The DA15 connector was the defacto PC game port standard for decades. Right from the DOS days to USB2
05:43 PM roycroft: da-15 was on pc game ports
05:43 PM roycroft: de-9 was on game console ports
05:44 PM XXCoder: yeah
05:45 PM roycroft: and apple used a de-9 with the gender reversed, analog instead of digital, and completely different pinouts to the game console joysticks
05:45 PM roycroft: because apple
05:45 PM XXCoder: yay apple
05:45 PM XXCoder: yeah they like to change everything
05:46 PM TheMightyFozz: I might still have my flight stick from the FreeSpace2 days in the loft (i can never bin that thing). the connector does remind me of it. I remember getting my next PC with usb connectors and being amazed. so your probably right.
05:46 PM XXCoder: I wonder if da-15 is better for your needs
05:47 PM XXCoder: if full pin cables is easier to get
05:47 PM roycroft: so i've mounted my 1kg spool of filament on the rollers instead of suspending it using the core of the spool
05:47 PM roycroft: it seems to feed a lot more smoothly
05:47 PM roycroft: so the bearing rollers i think are a win even for 1kg spools
05:48 PM XXCoder: interesting. id think roller is better since theres more torque due to distance from center to filament contact spot
05:48 PM roycroft: if you're concerned about current carrying, you can get db-13w3 connectors which have three high-current pins
05:48 PM roycroft: there's less friction, xxcoder
05:49 PM XXCoder: ok
05:49 PM roycroft: and i've confirmed this
05:49 PM roycroft: the rod that holds the filament spool on my printer is black
05:49 PM roycroft: the spool that i'm printing from right now is white
05:49 PM roycroft: when i pulled it off the rod and put it on the rollers, i noticed that the core of the spool is black
05:53 PM TheMightyFozz: ok, sounds cool so far.
05:55 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Just note that most 13w3 connectors/cables you will find are for high frequency ( Sun monitor cables) and not high current.
05:56 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: You really don't want your encoder lines in the same connector as your motor power cables anyway. You would have major issues with noise on the encoder.
05:57 PM roycroft: correct
05:57 PM roycroft: to the latter
05:57 PM roycroft: and mostly correct to the former
05:57 PM roycroft: while 13w3 connectors are primarily designed for high frequency, those three "special" pins can carry higher current than the standard pins
05:58 PM roycroft: but not "high" current
05:59 PM roycroft: i'll be using neutrik connectors for my stepper motor power cables
05:59 PM roycroft: and my steppers do not have encoders
05:59 PM roycroft: if they did that would be a separate cable
06:01 PM TheMightyFozz: Power lines are connected by an 'aviation connector'. I am pretty sure this is a specilist aviation cable too
06:02 PM TheMightyFozz: ths six wires for the encoder are EB+ EB- EA+ EA- VCC and EGND .
06:03 PM TheMightyFozz: I bought the cable its the same cable as the motors. i measured it with a micrometer.
06:04 PM TheMightyFozz: just those 15 pin little Bug***s i have to find now. CPC only sold the 2 row versions
06:06 PM solarwind: I really need to get or make myself a toolpost grinder
06:07 PM solarwind: Can't really justify buying a cylindrical grinder or a centreless grinder
06:09 PM TheMightyFozz: looks like an over priced cement mixer motor attached to a pulley driving a shaft... ...could a cheap lathe do it?
06:09 PM XXCoder: dumping grind powder down into ways sounds wrong
06:10 PM TheMightyFozz: cheap lathe sounds wrong.
06:10 PM TheMightyFozz: but cheaper than that.
06:11 PM TheMightyFozz: could any car parts be adapted? scrapyard find might work
06:11 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The main issue with using a cheap lathe is that cheap headstock bearings will give you out of round parts.
06:11 PM solarwind: I'll have to make some slide way covers
06:12 PM XXCoder: zinc some parts you just dont cheapen out on. me and my bro bought clone prusa mk3s, but threw away hotend nozzle and heat break because those is not parts you cheap out on
06:12 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I picked up a Dumore at auction for $100. Needed a new belt and a couple pulleys but worked great.
06:13 PM TheMightyFozz: kind of reminds me of a go-cart rear end.
06:13 PM XXCoder: probably can swap cheap bearings out and have decent lathe for cheapish (it wont be as good as whole good lathe but yeah)
06:16 PM TheMightyFozz: if your main focus is grinding you probably don't need much. I sharpen my drills by holding them in my hand whilst holding the 4" grinder in the other. mind you i've been doing that for years.
06:17 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Might work, but my experience with those cheap machines is that the bearing bores are out of round and so is the spindle. Putting better bearings in didn't help. It needed to be completely re-machined and at that point I tossed it out and got a better starting point 🙂
06:17 PM XXCoder: zinc makes sense
06:18 PM TheMightyFozz: so second hand good lathe and chuck a sheet over it to protect the working mechanism when sharpening?
06:19 PM TheMightyFozz: *put a sheet over the working mechanism?
06:19 PM XXCoder: theres interesting resharping tools that can be 3d printed but good? dunno
06:21 PM TheMightyFozz: One day soon, people will say. ' sharpening, why bother. just buy cobalt powder and print a new one. '
06:21 PM solarwind: I don't think so
06:22 PM solarwind: Well tungsten carbide inserts are sintered, but you need special expensive equipment to do that
06:22 PM TheMightyFozz: when i was a kid, mobile phones were a "fad".
06:22 PM solarwind: Yeah that doesn't mean anything you imagine will become a thing in 30 years
06:24 PM solarwind: Even 3D printing is difficult to do properly if you want to make strong parts
06:24 PM TheMightyFozz: the only reason why equipment is expensive is because its not in popular use.
06:25 PM solarwind: Sharpening makes an incredibly fine edge. That's why abrasive stones are a thing
06:25 PM TheMightyFozz: agreed about current 3d printing.
06:25 PM TheMightyFozz: I stick a thermostat on an oil radiator next to mine. it helps
06:25 PM XXCoder: someday, "drill a hole? why not just print another part with hole in it"
06:25 PM TheMightyFozz: hahaha
06:25 PM solarwind: There isn't any other way to make a precision fine cutting edge. Toolroom flatstones are essential
06:26 PM XXCoder: it didnt always exist solarwind. tech always changes
06:26 PM TheMightyFozz: maybe, but if they are automated, you have a production line.
06:33 PM gywilo[m]: hmmmm, I got a bootable usb drive setup with rufus (thank you). the initial linuxCNC dialogue displayed and I chose the safemood option. There was an error reported and it's seemlingly timing out waiting for hardware cmd interrupt. I have not plugged in ethernet cord to mesa hardware yet. what am I doing wrong here?
06:33 PM TheMightyFozz: WOW found the connectors on uk.farnell.com D Sub DE Connector. thanks Roycroft.
06:33 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (4825KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/pPBFqEKdjSBlJELIdfeMXfiE/IMG_20220721_162552.jpg >
06:34 PM solarwind: gywilo[m] what's your hardware?
06:34 PM solarwind: That has nothing to do with mesa or linuxcnc
06:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: are you always this lucky? :)
06:35 PM XXCoder: sounds like bad flash
06:35 PM XXCoder: did you verify it after flashing?
06:35 PM gywilo[m]: hardware is a SBC, https://store.mele.cn/products/mele-fanless-mini-pc-quieter3q-n5105-windows-11-pro-micro-computer-8gb-ddr4-256gb-rom-small-desktop-computers-for-office-home-dual-hdmi-4k-60hz-bt5-2-wi-fi-6-usb3-0-ethernet-port-vesa-mount
06:36 PM solarwind: Also, consider this: https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html
06:36 PM gywilo[m]: I did do a MD5 checksum when I downloaded the ISO
06:36 PM solarwind: A lot easier than rufus
06:36 PM gywilo[m]: I did not do any checking after that
06:36 PM solarwind: Should normally do a verification pass after flashing
06:36 PM gywilo[m]: Should I go play the lotto?
06:36 PM XXCoder: solars depend on what they used for flashing
06:38 PM solarwind: gywilo[m] also check your BIOS settings. Disable secure boot and all that
06:38 PM XXCoder: anyway when I was making install usb drive for my pc reinstall, it didnt work few tmes. turns out usb drive was dead. I tried another and it worked perfectly
06:38 PM XXCoder: I had forgotten about verifing flash then
06:38 PM XXCoder: hey mis
06:39 PM TheMightyFozz: hmm. try a windows format. put a file on it and unplug the drive. plug it back in and load the file. that way you can see if the drive works.
06:40 PM gywilo[m]: okay, I'll check bios settings, disable secure boot and report back
06:40 PM TheMightyFozz: ALSO, dont forget some computers hate modern usb sticks. find one that has a low amount of storage. some pc's mess up when reading them.
06:41 PM gywilo[m]: this is a 4GB stick, and a new computer
06:42 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (3601KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/yBWjiMdKFUzeNhSIXoIfQJNb/IMG_20220721_164111.jpg >
06:42 PM TheMightyFozz: I have a Sandisk Cruzer Blade 16gb that seems to work for everything i stick it in.
06:42 PM gywilo[m]: I'm not seeing a secure boot option
06:43 PM solarwind: Yeah that's fine
06:43 PM solarwind: Try a different external drive
06:44 PM satiowadahc[m]: Try security tab
06:44 PM solarwind: It has PXE, can easily do netboot https://ipxe.org/
06:44 PM satiowadahc[m]: Also disable fast boot
06:44 PM gywilo[m]: bingo, secure boot at bottom of security tab
06:45 PM gywilo[m]: fast boot? where might I find that?
06:46 PM solarwind: it was in your boot tab
06:46 PM satiowadahc[m]: 2/3s of the way down in boot
06:46 PM satiowadahc[m]: What's the point of levels on this server?
06:47 PM gywilo[m]: okay, fast book and secure boot disabled. Anything else I should configure in bios?
06:47 PM solarwind: no it should just work at this point
06:47 PM solarwind: if it doesn't, run to the local gas station and buy a different flash drive
06:48 PM gywilo[m]: okay
06:50 PM gywilo[m]: should I be using the 'Live system (fail-safe mode)' to start?
06:50 PM solarwind: what are the other options?
06:50 PM solarwind: The default one is the right one
06:51 PM solarwind: You have a pretty modern system, so at this point, it can only mean the hardware is being weird somewhere
06:51 PM solarwind: But again, you have the option of netboot
06:51 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (3713KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/dJTjLeWzbfFKDlVKsskoisXx/IMG_20220721_165106.jpg >
06:52 PM solarwind: The first one should work just fine
06:53 PM solarwind: Also grab some microfibre cloths while your at it to wipe the dust off your monitor lol
06:53 PM gywilo[m]: hmmm, I tried the first option, debian screen flashed briefly. now it's a blank black screen
06:54 PM TheMightyFozz: wow Americans can buy usb flash drives at a petrol station. I learn something new every day.
06:54 PM gywilo[m]: I'll give it some time, clean my monitor[lol] then try a new USB boot drive?
06:54 PM solarwind: TheMightyFozz LOL
06:54 PM solarwind: gywilo[m] ok different approach, install this: https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html
06:54 PM solarwind: flash it to your flash drive
06:55 PM solarwind: What that lets you do is drag and drop your ISO files into your flash drive without having to use rufus
06:55 PM solarwind: and it allows you to add multiple operating systems. So go ahead and do that first, then add the linuxcnc ISO to your flash drive
06:55 PM TheMightyFozz: i like the look of this ventoy thing.
06:56 PM solarwind: Then add a couple of other distributions that are known to work well across a wide range of hardware like ubuntu
06:56 PM solarwind: or arch linux
06:56 PM TheMightyFozz: does this mean i can have multiple iso's one one disc?
06:56 PM TheMightyFozz: is it like a usb boot loader?
06:56 PM solarwind: TheMightyFozz it's exactly what I described above
06:56 PM solarwind: so yeah pretty much
06:56 PM _unreal_: MAN that took WAY WAY WAY WAY WAYYYYYY longer then I expected it to... just milled a plate to mount to my boat trailer so I can put my launch permit on. but it took almost 3 hours to mill the stupid thing
06:57 PM gywilo[m]: okay, thanks, will give that a try
06:57 PM solarwind: it lets you just copy the ISOs to your flash drive normally and pick which one you want to boot with a menu
06:58 PM TheMightyFozz: I LOVE that. i can have everything i need hanging on my keys.
06:58 PM solarwind: TheMightyFozz you regularly need bootable ISOs on your keychain?
06:58 PM gywilo[m]: hah, you guys are a hoot
06:58 PM TheMightyFozz: no but i do now
06:59 PM TheMightyFozz: :P
07:05 PM _unreal_: should have been like 40min max on my machine
07:05 PM _unreal_: #$%!#$% and now its dark out and I cant even install it >:(
07:05 PM satiowadahc[m]: Flashlight?
07:06 PM TheMightyFozz: 8
07:06 PM TheMightyFozz: damn it, wrong keyboard sorry
07:07 PM TheMightyFozz: fyi i need 8 connectors.
07:13 PM TheMightyFozz: don't worry _unreal_ i am sure most of us get our best work done after dark.
07:14 PM TheMightyFozz: torches were invented for a reason.
07:14 PM XXCoder: think unreal is concerned about zombies, skelations with bows, endermen, and creepers
07:15 PM TheMightyFozz: F* the creepers those lil green b***ards are the things of nightmares.
07:17 PM TheMightyFozz: that and me slightly drunkenly buying electronic connectors because i give up looking at them.
07:17 PM TheMightyFozz: hope for the best.
07:17 PM XXCoder: lol well hope it will work
07:17 PM TheMightyFozz: me too. 36 quid later it had better do.
07:18 PM * CaptHindsight[m] uploaded an image: (60KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/mgWtTyENiYngAXzzFrMYcOgn/lcnc-21Jul2022-672.png >
07:20 PM TheMightyFozz: psychology wasn't my strong point. I see murder and manslaughter in that image.. you are talking to the internet after all. :-D
07:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so tell me about your mother.....
07:26 PM TheMightyFozz: 45(53 usd) quid for connectors for 4 stepper motor cables and the case connectors is that about right.
07:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: TheMightyFozz: oh and don't insult solarwind he is from Cananda :)
07:27 PM solarwind: I'm pretty hard to insult
07:27 PM XXCoder: oho never challenge me
07:28 PM TheMightyFozz: for the french among us thats 53 euros. :P
07:29 PM XXCoder: interesting https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256802137755437.html
07:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/EURUSD:CUR
07:30 PM TheMightyFozz: voron is cool. cant remember seeing it on ali before though
07:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: stm32f446, give it to scotta, he will port remora toit
07:30 PM XXCoder: not sure who that is, and what remora is
07:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/44828-remora-ethernet-nvem-cnc-board
07:31 PM XXCoder: looking
07:32 PM XXCoder: ahh yea
07:32 PM XXCoder: I have one of those boards saved for ponental future buy
07:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/42276-remora-rpi-software-stepping-using-external-microcontroller-via-spi
07:33 PM XXCoder: why its interesting is its plenty of axis to make pocketnc ripoff
07:34 PM gywilo[m]: not sure if applicable, but this is also stm32f446 with ethernet
07:34 PM gywilo[m]: https://biqu.equipment/products/bigtreetech-octopus-pro-v1-0-chip-f446?variant=39585170096226
07:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: will likely work with some tweaks
07:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not the finest made boards
07:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but it's nearly impossible to get stm32's in the USA and Europe right now
07:37 PM XXCoder: roycroft: just thought of interesting double "single" belt system. its like simple single belt, execept there is two. those 2 belts is exactly same except idlers is pushed opposite directions
07:38 PM XXCoder: so it pulls both ways, elimating backlash
07:38 PM XXCoder: not as good as one you plan to make but interesting concept
07:39 PM XXCoder: not too sure how I would explain jow it'd be designed
07:44 PM TheMightyFozz: I am sure JC was a socialist, because after seeing 52.90 for a bunch of small connectors anyone would cry out and ask for his dads help.
07:45 PM gywilo[m]: hmmm, okay, I'm using Ventoy now to load ISO to USB. I've tried two separate USB sticks with the same result, Ventoy screen pops up, I select the .iso, the debian screen loads, some text briefly, then blank screen with '_' pulsing in top left. Oh, and I've cleaned my monitor
07:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: how long does the upper left courser flash?
07:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: more than a minute?
07:46 PM gywilo[m]: yes
07:46 PM TheMightyFozz: dissable hyperthreading?
07:46 PM solarwind: Yeah sometimes you have to wait for it to load the kernel
07:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok then try this:
07:46 PM solarwind: Did you try loading ubuntu?
07:46 PM gywilo[m]: I let it go flashing while I loaded up the other USB stick with ventoy/ISO
07:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: catch grub when it lists the kernel
07:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: press e for edit
07:47 PM gywilo[m]: I have not tried loading ubuntu
07:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: go down to where it likely says quiet and add nomodeset
07:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and delete quiet
07:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and press f10
07:48 PM TheMightyFozz: what is the size of the usb sticks your using?
07:48 PM solarwind: might not be f10, but it'll tell you what key to press
07:48 PM solarwind: I highly doubt the size of the flash drive is an issue for modern UEFI systems
07:48 PM solarwind: it shouldn't matter
07:49 PM gywilo[m]: they are both 4GB
07:49 PM solarwind: But CaptHindsight[m] 's nomodeset will give better information
07:49 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (2997KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/ulnshwhAlJtNLgHFixOdyFxx/IMG_20220721_174801.jpg >
07:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: similar https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/23/html/Multiboot_Guide/GRUB-runtime.html
07:49 PM TheMightyFozz: should be fine on anything
07:50 PM solarwind: gywilo[m] delete everything including and after video=
07:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah, edit it and remove quiet and add nomodeset
07:50 PM gywilo[m]: is this where I would see 'quiet' and add 'nomodeset'
07:50 PM solarwind: delete the video too
07:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: yes
07:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and then F10 to boot when done editing
07:51 PM solarwind: it should just be `linux /install/gtk/vmlinuz nomodeset`
07:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JUST like it says solarwind :p
07:51 PM solarwind: I miss grub1
07:52 PM solarwind: it was easy to configure
07:52 PM solarwind: I think they overcomplicated it with the whole menu.cfg thing
07:52 PM TheMightyFozz: is this the official dl for linux cnc?
07:52 PM solarwind: TheMightyFozz yes if you want rtlinux
07:52 PM solarwind: don't need it if you don't need rtlinux
07:53 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (3095KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/rxaJGMYTLLKslyWFhkmNuSNW/IMG_20220721_175102.jpg >
07:53 PM gywilo[m]: Is this correct
07:53 PM solarwind: gywilo[m] add `nomodeset`
07:53 PM TheMightyFozz: i used debian 11 and installed the rt kernal. it was easy.
07:54 PM solarwind: TheMightyFozz then you're good to go
07:54 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (2435KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/LprFCxpKvUGLoEHnYnlKBACG/IMG_20220721_175329.jpg >
07:54 PM gywilo[m]: using 'linuxcnc-2.8.2-buster.iso'
07:54 PM solarwind: aiyaa without quotes
07:55 PM gywilo[m]: okay, quotes removed then F10
07:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: go forit
07:55 PM solarwind: yes
07:55 PM gywilo[m]: looking better
07:56 PM gywilo[m]: looking at debian screen asking for language
07:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah haha
07:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bingo
07:56 PM gywilo[m]: perfect, thanks guys, really appreciate it
07:56 PM solarwind: So there you have it
07:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ^5
07:56 PM solarwind: ^5 indeed
07:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 🤼‍♀️
07:57 PM gywilo[m]: ^5
07:57 PM TheMightyFozz: Select some kind of English please. although the others would be a blast trying to figure out.
07:58 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (2941KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/xlpUmuMeyGzeYTLpkPZBVqIh/IMG_20220721_175754.jpg >
07:58 PM gywilo[m]: no options, but mouse works!
07:59 PM gywilo[m]: lol
07:59 PM solarwind: ok why do I have the feeling it thinks your resolution is higher than it is
07:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hit enter
07:59 PM gywilo[m]: no response by hitting enter
07:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what res is the monitor?
08:00 PM gywilo[m]: 4k
08:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: try the monitor settings if it has an auto alignment
08:00 PM solarwind: reboot and do the same thing except, don't delete the video line
08:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: on the bottom or back of the monitor
08:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah that to
08:00 PM solarwind: I mean just delete `quiet` and add `nomodeset`
08:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: quiet doesn't really matter but it tells us how far things get when it's not used
08:01 PM TheMightyFozz: I would install debian 11. this sounds like a cutting edge system.
08:01 PM solarwind: it's a video driver issue
08:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what cpu is this?
08:02 PM solarwind: just boils down to telling the kernel how to set up the framebuffer
08:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: AMD?
08:02 PM TheMightyFozz: deb 11 install might solve it. he can always upgrade
08:02 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] https://store.mele.cn/products/mele-fanless-mini-pc-quieter3q-n5105-windows-11-pro-micro-computer-8gb-ddr4-256gb-rom-small-desktop-computers-for-office-home-dual-hdmi-4k-60hz-bt5-2-wi-fi-6-usb3-0-ethernet-port-vesa-mount
08:02 PM gywilo[m]: Quad Core N5105 Processor
08:02 PM solarwind: Intel Celeron 11th Gen Jasper Lake N5105, Quad cores, Frequency 2.00 GHz-2.90 GHz
08:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah :(
08:03 PM solarwind: so it has the intel graphics. That kernel is probably a bit too old or doesnt have the proper driver included
08:03 PM solarwind: you can still work around it during install and fix it after installing
08:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: try the video setting as is but add nomodset
08:04 PM solarwind: That's a pretty damn good price for a computer like that though
08:05 PM gywilo[m]: I paid $220 for it
08:05 PM TheMightyFozz: I am imagining the 3d printed fan housing i can add to it.
08:05 PM solarwind: why? It looks like it comes in a nice compact case already
08:05 PM gywilo[m]: okay, that worked
08:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nomodeset
08:05 PM gywilo[m]: its loading components from cd
08:05 PM gywilo[m]: or so it says
08:06 PM TheMightyFozz: my computer ran hot. now its cool with an external fan
08:06 PM gywilo[m]: yes, I just added nomodeset to end of line
08:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: worst case you'll have to use a Debian 11 install ISO and then add LCNC via the package manager
08:07 PM solarwind: after installing, you can try `sudo apt install xserver-xorg-video-intel` or similar
08:07 PM TheMightyFozz: damn I want one of those PC's
08:07 PM gywilo[m]: no need to configure the network at this time, right?
08:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or pull the SSD out and install using a slightly older system
08:07 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (3233KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/aXfwIqhVFDaFYMKdJzgxnNIX/IMG_20220721_180706.jpg >
08:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, do network NOW
08:08 PM solarwind: lol!
08:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: debian is stupid about skipping network at install time
08:08 PM solarwind: I was about to say you don't _need_ to, but then we'll have to help you set it up later
08:08 PM solarwind: so yeah easiest to just plug in the ethernet cable now lol
08:09 PM solarwind: and if you're using wifi for some dog awful reason, stop, and run an ethernet cable to it
08:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: have done too many Debian installs this month
08:09 PM TheMightyFozz: I would stick all hardware in before you install. the installer might detect it.
08:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: getting LCNC on Gentoo again
08:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: will have an ebuild ready as well
08:10 PM TheMightyFozz: I am only here because i dont want to spend
08:10 PM TheMightyFozz: 52.86 franc on a few connectors. :P
08:11 PM TheMightyFozz: putting it off.
08:15 PM roycroft: i don't like spending money, but i also don't like wasting money by not spending enough
08:15 PM gywilo[m]: should I leave domain name blank?
08:16 PM solarwind: yes
08:16 PM roycroft: for what? a linux install?
08:16 PM TheMightyFozz: same. My hungarian partner says. I am too poor to pay twice... I like that way of thinking.
08:16 PM roycroft: that is correct thinking, themightyfozz
08:17 PM TheMightyFozz: you can change the domain name later.
08:17 PM gywilo[m]: well, I'm just booting from USB at this point, initial goal was to run latency test and make sure this hardware was suitable
08:17 PM solarwind: you will almost certainly never have to touch that or worry about it
08:17 PM gywilo[m]: okay
08:17 PM gywilo[m]: leaving blank
08:17 PM TheMightyFozz: especialiy if you dont know what to do with it.
08:18 PM solarwind: and I can tell you already the hardware is suitable
08:18 PM solarwind: it's a modern x86. It's a shitty celeron, but it's _more_ than enough for linuxcnc
08:18 PM solarwind: the whole system has low latency
08:19 PM TheMightyFozz: the most rememrable root password i came up with was turnip. never forgot it
08:19 PM roycroft: if you're just booting from the livecd then there is no reason to input any networking information at all
08:19 PM roycroft: and ignore solarwind
08:19 PM roycroft: run the latency test if you're going to be using the parallel port directly
08:19 PM solarwind: why ignore? we've been helping him through it from the start
08:19 PM solarwind: we know what his hardware is
08:20 PM roycroft: if you're using a smart motion controller board like a mesa board, then the latency test is not important
08:20 PM solarwind: we know it doesn't have an (exposed) parallel port
08:20 PM roycroft: because were wrong just now
08:20 PM gywilo[m]: its no problem, I can setup it up again
08:20 PM gywilo[m]: its good practice? 🙂
08:21 PM solarwind: no it has nothing to do with the configuration you're doing now
08:21 PM solarwind: keep going, you're doing fine
08:21 PM Tom_L: if you _are_ planning to use mesa hardware there is a very nice config tool for them called mesact
08:21 PM roycroft: you may have been 100% correct until now, but you are wrong to say that the latency test is not necessary on modern hardware, and that the whole system has low latency
08:21 PM roycroft: if you're using a parallel port you *must* run the latency test
08:22 PM solarwind: I didn't say it's not necessary, I'm just saying I know for a fact that platform has overall very low latency
08:22 PM gywilo[m]: in this case, I will be using mesa hardware
08:23 PM TheMightyFozz: no parralel port i can see. all ethernet?
08:23 PM gywilo[m]: yes
08:23 PM TheMightyFozz: i am running the 7i96s
08:24 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/jethornton/mesact
08:24 PM Tom_L: nice
08:24 PM TheMightyFozz: it was the only card available in europe a few weeks ago.
08:24 PM Tom_L: when you get ready to make your config, that's the tool you should use
08:24 PM gywilo[m]: that's what I have too, plus a daughter board
08:25 PM gywilo[m]: okay, great, thanks Tom
08:25 PM Tom_L: and the 7i96s is a great card
08:25 PM TheMightyFozz: ok
08:25 PM Tom_L: any questions about the config tool jt or i can probably help you along
08:26 PM TheMightyFozz: it is. i love it. trying to figure out wiring. but i want to hwlp gywilo before we get to that
08:26 PM Tom_L: there is also a deb for the rpi4 now
08:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I prefer to create and edit my configs manually since i don't like to mix tabs with spaces :)
08:28 PM TheMightyFozz: i think so, try buying a rpi4 though. in the uk we would say its like rocking horse poo.
08:28 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/install/latency-test.html
08:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: TheMightyFozz: yeah you also drive on the wrong side of the street and call fries chips and chips crisps
08:31 PM refo[m]: Just got a Mesa 7c80, working great so far with a rpi4
08:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and a real time kernel is like having the kernel ready with boots on when the interrupt signal goes off vs sleeping in a bed under a weighted blanket
08:33 PM TheMightyFozz: what do americans call crisps then? (totally agree about the wrong side of the road thing)
08:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: crisps are chips
08:34 PM solarwind: then what are chips?
08:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we don't call anything crisps unless it come in a bag from the UK with Crisps on the label
08:35 PM refo[m]: I’m not sure why it makes more sense to do the real stuff through the kernel rather than keep it completely in user land, with non-shared hardware and userland facing drivers
08:35 PM refo[m]: Kernel-bypass NICs work this way and it works great
08:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: because when Linux started out they didn't care about real time
08:35 PM roycroft: chips are pommes frites
08:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: freedom fries
08:36 PM refo[m]: Right, that’s why I don’t think bothering with the kernel is worth it
08:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: remote DMA
08:37 PM roycroft: ask the sliced up deep fried spuds how they feel about their freedom
08:37 PM solarwind: refo[m] that's called a microkernel
08:37 PM TheMightyFozz: well i like chipping my potatoes and crisping them in the oven.
08:37 PM solarwind: refo[m] QNX does exactly that
08:37 PM solarwind: so does MINIX
08:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_direct_memory_access
08:37 PM solarwind: and GNU Hurd
08:37 PM refo[m]: You can keep the regular kernel
08:38 PM refo[m]: Kernel-bypassing rdma works the same way
08:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: but QNX is from Canadia
08:38 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] I run my 200 Gbit/s SAN over RDMA
08:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Cananda
08:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or similar
08:38 PM solarwind: Well blackberry bought QNX
08:38 PM solarwind: I remember when it was mostly open source
08:38 PM solarwind: I don't know what it is now, but it's a shame it's locked up
08:39 PM solarwind: it's a very good kernel
08:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: iym uhmerican so i kant speel
08:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they never had many drivers for it
08:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i asked them for a driver list back in the late 90's and that was not a happy question for them
08:41 PM solarwind: Well luckily we have freertos when we need to keep it simple
08:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC could be re-written to use RDMA
08:42 PM TheMightyFozz: I've just spent 53 of my hard earned chips(slang for money) on cables, hopefully they are crisp when they arrive.
08:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: run headless
08:42 PM solarwind: easily
08:42 PM solarwind: it's well suited for infiniband
08:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but whois gonnah pay for that?
08:43 PM solarwind: I'd do it if I had the time
08:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what? You're young
08:43 PM gywilo[m]: hmmmm, the installation completed, and now I'm back at a blank screen with pulsing '_'
08:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok
08:43 PM solarwind: gywilo[m] do the same thing at the bootloader
08:44 PM solarwind: then when you boot up and log in, make those changes permanent
08:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and then you'll need the non-free drivers
08:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and then you might still need to permanently modify grub
08:44 PM solarwind: which is super simple anyway
08:45 PM gywilo[m]: okay, I should be booting the debian installation though, not from the USB stick, correct?
08:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: debian has a grub2 mod tool but don't use it
08:45 PM solarwind: gywilo[m] right, remove the USB drive
08:46 PM refo[m]: OFED is open source
08:46 PM solarwind: when you see the bootloader during normal boot, press `e` and do the same thing
08:46 PM solarwind: refo[m] you'd need to modify linuxcnc to use infiniband verbs
08:46 PM solarwind: you'd need an actual infiniband switch and HCAs to take advantage of it
08:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: plus infiniband is for oldpeople
08:47 PM solarwind: lol!
08:47 PM refo[m]: Infiniband works direct connect 😛
08:47 PM solarwind: so does ethernet
08:47 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (4825KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/zCubcBUkkjfqzuyswtceriiG/IMG_20220721_184638.jpg >
08:47 PM gywilo[m]: I need to nomodeset after quiet?
08:47 PM solarwind: yes
08:48 PM gywilo[m]: * I need to add nomodeset after quiet?
08:48 PM solarwind: yes
08:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes and remove quiet of you want to see what it's doing while starting
08:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: of/if
08:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: are the startup messages so evil that they need to be kept away from users eyes?
08:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: like peeking into the most holy section of the tabernacle at easter?
08:50 PM gywilo[m]: hmm, that didn't seem to work, will try again
08:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what did it did?
08:50 PM solarwind: remove `load_video` on line 2
08:51 PM solarwind: line 3 whatever, at the top
08:51 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (3863KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/KNnZtzqSoMiTlEadVtmMqxgc/IMG_20220721_185055.jpg >
08:52 PM solarwind: yeah and add nomodeset on the `linux` line like before
08:52 PM gywilo[m]: removed load_video and added nomodeset
08:52 PM solarwind: ok try booting now
08:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yikes 4.19
08:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no wonder
08:52 PM gywilo[m]: I hit f10
08:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes hit F10
08:53 PM gywilo[m]: getting blank screen with pulsing '_'
08:53 PM solarwind: there is a way to fix it if you know your way around the console
08:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok then we can go command line
08:53 PM solarwind: you can boot back into the live environment, mount the installed partition, create a new initrd
08:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: press Ctl Alt F2 at the same time
08:54 PM solarwind: hopefully that works
08:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lets do an update on his system
08:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: get a newer kernel
08:55 PM solarwind: I don't know if that'll even work because the framebuffer won't work either
08:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: press Ctl Alt F2 at the same time
08:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: as see
08:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and see even
08:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: <-- uhmerican
08:56 PM solarwind: gywilo[m] press ctrl+alt+F2 when you see the blinking _
08:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: will be much easier to do a Deb11 install at this point
08:56 PM gywilo[m]: okay, getting prompt to login
08:56 PM solarwind: oh looks like it worked
08:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: great then login
08:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: did you create a root password or skip that step?
08:57 PM gywilo[m]: okay, logged in
08:57 PM gywilo[m]: linux cmd line
08:57 PM solarwind: `sudo apt update; sudo apt full-upgrade`
08:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: did you create a root password or skip that step?
08:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this is where we find out if sudo vs SU - will be used
08:58 PM gywilo[m]: I created a username and password; not sure if it was root
08:59 PM solarwind: that's probably a regular user
08:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok then type sudo apt update and tell us what happens
08:59 PM roycroft: is sudo part of the livecd?
08:59 PM * roycroft has not installed from that image in ages
09:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: during install IF you set a root password then the user is not added to the sudo group
09:00 PM gywilo[m]: 'we trust you have recieved the usual lecture.....'
09:00 PM gywilo[m]: entered password again
09:00 PM gywilo[m]: it read some packages
09:00 PM solarwind: yeah that's fine
09:00 PM gywilo[m]: 120 packages can be upgraded
09:00 PM solarwind: good, do `sudo apt full-upgrade`
09:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok good, so sudo works for you
09:01 PM gywilo[m]: okay, its updating
09:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: you haven't done anything wrong, it's just that Debian tends to be way behind on support for new hardware in its install kernels
09:04 PM gywilo[m]: okay, it completed, back at cmd line
09:04 PM solarwind: In this case, it's the linuxcnc installedr
09:04 PM solarwind: Debian 11 is fine
09:05 PM gywilo[m]: now restart and try again?
09:05 PM solarwind: Not yet
09:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: gywilo: lets reboot now and see if there is a new kernel in grub
09:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sudo shutdwon -r now
09:05 PM solarwind: I was going to say just list the kernels
09:06 PM solarwind: but sure that works too
09:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok he has something
09:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 6 of 1 , half dozen of the other
09:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I forget is this the LCNC 2.8 ISO?
09:07 PM gywilo[m]: yes
09:07 PM gywilo[m]: linuxcnc-2.8.2-buster.iso
09:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok, it's been a few minutes
09:08 PM gywilo[m]: okay, restarted with cmd, blank screen with pulsating '_'; should I ctrl alt F2?
09:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh you were suppose to stop at the grub2 screen
09:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and look for kernel choices
09:09 PM gywilo[m]: okay
09:10 PM * gywilo[m] uploaded an image: (4861KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/GGbCnneTwLGuZrECpdUqxZPe/IMG_20220721_190956.jpg >
09:10 PM solarwind: CaptHindsight[m] I can't imagine it would install a new major kernel version
09:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bullseye does
09:11 PM solarwind: But you should be able to install the video drivers
09:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes now comes the fun of Debian
09:12 PM gywilo[m]: oh boy
09:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: install non-free drivers and later kernel
09:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but I'll be back later
09:13 PM Tom_L: i installed buster from the debian iso then added the kernel
09:13 PM gywilo[m]: okay, thank CaptHindsight
09:13 PM Tom_L: then installed linuxcnc afterward
09:13 PM gywilo[m]: s/thank/thanks/
09:13 PM Tom_L: get the latest updates
09:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: might be easier for him at this ppint
09:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: point
09:14 PM Tom_L: it didn't take long at all
09:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah
09:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if a deb install gets broken during or right after install just re-install
09:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but there is something about the Debian mindset that just doesn't mind ignoring new hardware
09:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: because stable
09:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: means old
09:16 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:16 PM Tom_dev: Linux buster 4.19.0-20-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.235-1 (2022-03-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux
09:17 PM Tom_L: was the latest preempt as of a week or so ago
09:22 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], is new 'better'?
09:30 PM gywilo[m]: okay, interesting trying to better understand this stuff
09:30 PM gywilo[m]: Would this be a good approach to get 'non-free' drivers?
09:30 PM gywilo[m]: https://www.xmodulo.com/install-nonfree-packages-debian.html#:~:text=If%20you%20want%20to%20install%20any%20non-free%20package,an%20example%20of%20%2Fetc%2Fapt%2Fsources.listfor%20Debian%2010%20%22buster%22%20Release.
09:33 PM Tom_L: i think so
09:33 PM Tom_L: i've got similar in my repos
09:34 PM Tom_L: at least the main contrib non-free and buster/updates main and non-free
09:35 PM Tom_L: i had fewer issues installing debian from their iso then adding the preempt-rt from synaptic package manager
09:36 PM Tom_L: then install linuxcnc from buildbot.linuxcnc.org
09:36 PM Tom_L: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
09:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: new is better when you have new hardware
09:37 PM Tom_L: i suppose for those on the bleeding edge
09:37 PM Tom_L: i did have to list the linuxcnc.org repo first in the list or i got errors
09:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://store.mele.cn/products/mele-fanless-mini-pc-quieter3q-n5105-windows-11-pro-micro-computer-8gb-ddr4-256gb-rom-small-desktop-computers-for-office-home-dual-hdmi-4k-60hz-bt5-2-wi-fi-6-usb3-0-ethernet-port-vesa-mount
10:56 PM XXCoder: ohh new jer
10:56 PM XXCoder: hes making blower
11:00 PM roycroft: yeah, i saw that
11:00 PM roycroft: and he is overbuilding it, which is not a good thing for stuff that spins fast
11:02 PM XXCoder: makes sense
11:04 PM XXCoder: ther thing I wondered is he balanced circle thing before adding fins
11:04 PM XXCoder: wouldnt it be better to just wait till done then balance?
11:05 PM XXCoder: oh guys rebalancing it.
11:07 PM roycroft: yes, and that is correct
11:07 PM roycroft: the disc should have been balanced first
11:07 PM roycroft: it makes balancing the fins easier
11:07 PM XXCoder: ok
11:08 PM roycroft: but the disc and the fins are both way too thick
11:08 PM roycroft: and should be made of aluminium, not steel
11:08 PM roycroft: i'm sure jeremy can weld aluminium
11:08 PM roycroft: if not he can learn
11:12 PM XXCoder: angled so can use wood is smart savings
11:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Jeremy spoke in
11:20 PM XXCoder: he sure loves overkill