#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 03 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:07 AM djdelorie: build day 3 results: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc2/PXL_20220703_044923879.html
12:16 AM djdelorie: my surplus servos fit the nema 34 mounts, but only just barely. Had to modify the bolts and print new timing gears
12:18 AM djdelorie: thanks! I think we're about halfway through the instructions
12:18 AM * roycroft just finished gluing up the last tray
12:18 AM roycroft: is that a kig, djdelorie, or scratch built?
12:19 AM djdelorie: it's an AvidCNC kit, but I'm supplying my own motor and electronics, and a 3rd party ATC spindle
12:19 AM roycroft: kit, rather
12:19 AM djdelorie: Avid doesn't support linuxcnc, so...
12:20 AM djdelorie: well, they don't support servos either, or ATC, so much customization was needed
12:20 AM roycroft: sounds like a fun project
12:20 AM djdelorie: so far yes, this part is "just like Legos" but I'm still doing the bldc driver board layout
12:22 AM djdelorie: I've got friends helping with the "Legos" part, though - gotta share the fun somehow :-)
12:26 AM djdelorie: and this is my first time with pneumatics for the ATC, and it's all custom... is that the kind of "fun" we like? ;-)
12:27 AM djdelorie: I'm not sure it's "fun" to learn that there's a difference between 1/4" PT (american/inch) and 1/4" PT (british/metric)
12:29 AM djdelorie: WHY AREN'T ALL 1/4" PIPE FITTINGS THE SAME??? :-P
12:30 AM roycroft: metric pipe taper thread sizes are the same throughout the world
12:31 AM djdelorie: so call it a 6mm pipe thread and avoid confusion
01:35 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:20 AM Deejay: moin
03:40 AM travis_farmer: G'Morning
03:47 AM pere: good morning.
03:49 AM pere: I got a Mesa 7i49 feeding four servo controllers, and ran into something I do not understand. The control voltage show up for AOUT0 and AOUT1, but there is no voltage on AOUT2. I have not started on AOUT3 yet. What could be wrong with the setup?
04:20 AM pere: correction, there is never any positive voltage, only negative voltage.
04:30 AM pere: hm2_7i80.0.pwmgen.02.output-type is set to 2, for up/down behaviour.
05:06 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:18 AM pere: not quite sure what is going on with the voltage, but now I suspect the multimeter is out of wack, as I got the Z axis moving up and down...
06:05 AM Tom_L: morning
06:05 AM pere: good morning. :)
06:06 AM pere: Very happy to report that I ran my first G code command today. G0 with a small movement, almost completed before I got the usual following error. :)
06:11 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:14 AM JT-Cave: why are you getting a following error?
06:15 AM JT-Cave: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/calling-any-one-from-missouri.73271/page-1566#post-25915042
06:22 AM Tom_L: jt 1 hornworm 0
06:53 AM JT-Cave: that's Sue from SW Missouri
06:53 AM JT-Cave: I have some BT arriving today
08:04 AM t4nk_freenode: I think the score is supposed to be 5 - 0 at the moment, Tom_L, since it was 4 - 0 last time out
08:05 AM t4nk_freenode: however.... if the worms were able to keep him bothered all this time, a partial observer might suggest 5-2 was in order hehe
08:10 AM t4nk_freenode: (make that an UNpartial observer of course :| )
08:13 AM t4nk_freenode: ( and with that I mean impartial ;) )
08:14 AM travis_farmer: i bet your wishing IRC had spellcheck now ;)
08:20 AM JT-Cave: more like 30 - 0 just because they never got a bite before death
08:21 AM JT-Cave: hot and muggy here
08:40 AM Tom_L: 77F
08:41 AM Tom_L: and yes, muggy
08:42 AM travis_farmer: 73F and 56%, here (so far...)
08:43 AM Tom_L: Humidity: 90% here
09:32 AM _unreal_: did you guys hear about shockwave?
10:08 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:18 AM pere: JT-Cave: I get them because the PID controller is not tuned properly yet.
10:21 AM JT-Cave: analog servo?
10:21 AM pere: yes
10:21 AM pere: three phase motor with meldas controller
10:22 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html
10:22 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/index.html
10:23 AM pere: JT-Cave: already tried to follow it, and it do not have enough details for me to grasp it all yet. also, I do not know the max velocity of the machine.
10:24 AM JT-Cave: ah ok, just making sure you knew about that page
10:24 AM JT-Cave: set your following error larger for testing
10:25 AM pere: The only real take -away from that page was how to set P, and set f-error large during testing. Had a few surprised yesterday, when I switched the machine from inch to mm, and the entire machine would shake like crazy when enabling the axis for the first few times.
10:25 AM pere: discovered that P is highly dependent on inch/mm status. :)
10:26 AM Tom_L: units change
10:26 AM JT-Cave: yes
10:26 AM * Tom_L wonders where he left off with these rpi4 images
10:27 AM pere: fixed it by setting P to 1 and move up from there. proved around 1.5 was a good value, not 10 as it was originally. :)
10:27 AM * JT-Cave needs to clean up down here and organize
10:28 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, can i get from a .deb to an image for rpi?
10:29 AM JT-Cave: I don't think so the image is already a compressed file
10:29 AM Tom_L: will a deb install on rpi?
10:29 AM JT-Cave: yes
10:29 AM Tom_L: so i need to get a clean debian on rpi then
10:30 AM t4nk_freenode: raspbian is debian
10:30 AM JT-Cave: that would help
10:30 AM Tom_L: i can install that old buster iso i suppose and go from there
10:30 AM Tom_L: i'm trying to get up to 2.9 on the rpi
10:31 AM Tom_L: then see if your tools work there
10:31 AM JT-Cave: cool
10:31 AM Tom_L: but i haven't had the rpi out in a very long time :)
10:32 AM Tom_L: i have one working image but i don't really wanna screw it up so i have another sd that doesn't wanna boot that i was gonna use
10:32 AM t4nk_freenode: there's rpi-imager
10:32 AM Tom_L: i have one i think
10:34 AM Tom_L: the iso is 2.8.1 but i can dump that i think
10:35 AM Tom_L: i thought i had a copy of the iso but can't find it..
10:35 AM _unreal_: strongly thinking about redesigning the cyclone dust system I have on my cnc
10:36 AM _unreal_: the one I'm using is ok. but I can make a better design then what I got on line
10:36 AM _unreal_: from thing verse
10:39 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, you don't have a copy of the rpi iso do you?
10:39 AM Tom_L: says the zip i dl is corrupt
10:39 AM JT-Cave: no, I don't think so
10:40 AM JT-Cave: who says?
10:40 AM Tom_L: the unzip thing
10:40 AM Tom_L: i'll try it again
10:41 AM Tom_L: i'm gonna search the hdds first
10:41 AM Tom_L: see if i can find an old dl
10:43 AM * JT-Cave is very close to a nap
10:43 AM Gamad[m]: I have classic break out board with parallel port. Now i have question -> Why when PC turns ON i get short pulse for spindle ON (relay) and also sometimes steppers move for few steps . Anyone have idea whats going on here ?
10:43 AM Tom_L: if i can't find an iso i am too :)
10:45 AM pere: btw, what is the unit of AXIS_Z / JOINT_2 MAX_VELOCITY, and is there some relationship between this one and the value of hm2_7i80.0.resolver.02.velocity ?
10:48 AM JT-Cave: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/config/ini-config.html#_axis__lt_letter_gt_section
10:48 AM JT-Cave: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/config/ini-config.html#_joint__lt_num_gt_section
10:49 AM Tom_L: ok i think i found an old copy
10:49 AM JT-Cave: looks like a link in the docs is pointing to the wrong place
10:52 AM Tom_L: does rpi use gdebi?
10:52 AM Tom_L: i suppose if it's debian it will
10:52 AM pere: JT-Cave: any idea why I got MAX_VELOCITY listed in both sections?
10:52 AM Tom_L: pere, no but keep them the same
10:53 AM Tom_L: i noticed similar on mine when i updated to joints from just axis
10:53 AM pere: this setup was automatically upgraded by linuxcnc.
10:53 AM Tom_L: yeah
10:53 AM pere: so is the resolver velocity also in machine units / s, or some other unit?
10:53 AM Tom_L: that updater had a couple issues when i ran it. it may be fixed by now...
10:55 AM pere: trying to measure velocity/max velocity, and the number I see is 0.00something, which seem quite small if it is mm/s.
10:56 AM Tom_L: i'm not sure
10:56 AM Tom_L: it may be in units per servo_thread update?
10:56 AM Tom_L: i don't know
10:56 AM travis_farmer: i thought they were in units/second, i think i was told...
10:58 AM JT-Cave: units is either mm or inch depending on what the machine units are
10:58 AM JT-Cave: some say user units/sec some say machine units/sec
10:58 AM Tom_L: so it's per sec not per servo_thread update
10:58 AM pere: I witched to mm yesterday, so it should be mm/s, then. trying to reduce the max speed to see if f_error go down.
10:58 AM JT-Cave: right
10:59 AM * JT-Cave wanders upstairs for a power nap
10:59 AM Tom_L: heh
10:59 AM Tom_L: wonder if we can distract him again..
11:00 AM travis_farmer: lol
11:04 AM _unreal_: anyone hear about shockwave yet?
11:04 AM Tom_L: you asked us that already
11:04 AM _unreal_: no one even responded
11:04 AM Tom_L: i take that as a NO then :)
11:04 AM _unreal_: or no one around
11:05 AM Tom_L: no i was just ignoring you
11:05 AM Tom_L: :)
11:05 AM _unreal_: shockwave the tripple jet drag race truck crashed yesterday driver died
11:05 AM Tom_L: ok
11:07 AM Tom_L: ok even the old image doesn't wanna boot now
11:09 AM Tom_L: ok finally. just slow as molasses in winter
11:09 AM Gamad[m]: is even possible to get MESA board in those days?
11:09 AM Tom_L: in what days?
11:10 AM Gamad[m]: .. everywhere is out of stock
11:10 AM Tom_L: what board are you looking for and what country?
11:11 AM roycroft: they are starting to become available again, gamad
11:12 AM Gamad[m]: i would like to get 7i92H or M.. im from Slovenia - Europe but it can be shipped from USA
11:12 AM Tom_L: there are 8 7i96s in stock
11:12 AM Tom_L: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=374&search=7i96
11:13 AM Tom_L: it's a brand new board
11:13 AM Tom_L: looks quite good too
11:14 AM Gamad[m]: i would love to have 7i92H its cheap and it would suit me perfectly 🙂
11:14 AM Tom_L: but you can't have one :)
11:14 AM Gamad[m]: do you think it will be in stock once again ?
11:14 AM Tom_L: you'll have to ask the powers in charge of the chip shortage
11:15 AM Gamad[m]: :/
11:15 AM Gamad[m]: is there maybe and alternative to MESA boards?
11:15 AM Gamad[m]: any*
11:15 AM Tom_L: not in my books
11:15 AM Gamad[m]: damn, it would be healthy to have some competition
11:16 AM Tom_L: the 7i92 you need a daughter card of some sort
11:17 AM Tom_L: the 7i96s has built on protection
11:17 AM Tom_L: so you will end up spending about the same or even more
11:17 AM Tom_L: for a 7i92 setup
11:17 AM Tom_L: and you _can_ add additional sserial cards or a 26pin daughter card if need be
11:18 AM Tom_L: on the 7i96
11:18 AM * Tom_L quits trying to sell mesa.. it sells itself
11:18 AM djdelorie: Tom_L still needs to hold the bag where people throw their money
11:19 AM Tom_L: now i _would_ be happy to hold that bag
11:20 AM Gamad[m]: Yeah you are correct, but i was thinking to build a pcb board around 7i92
11:20 AM Tom_L: ok looks like i have a working rpi4 image finally
11:22 AM Gamad[m]: which daughter board suits 7i96?
11:22 AM Tom_L: any of the 25pin ones
11:33 AM Tom_L: Gamad[m], there are 2 7i96 boards. the 7i96 and the 7i96s
11:33 AM Tom_L: don't be confused
11:34 AM Tom_L: although he may have taken down the plain 7i96.. i don't see it
11:40 AM robh_ is now known as Guest6357
11:41 AM Guest6357 is now known as _robh_
11:41 AM _robh_ is now known as _robh__
11:47 AM JT-Cave: I still have the 7i96 listed but may remove it
11:47 AM Tom_L: is he gonna discontinue it?
11:47 AM Tom_L: in lieu of the s?
11:49 AM Tom_L: running thru all the dist upgrades.. rpi
11:51 AM JT-Cave: dunno, depends on the spartan 6 chip I assume
11:56 AM JT-Shop: lgo
12:23 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, did you fix that last error?
12:23 PM JT-Shop: lol which last error?
12:23 PM Tom_L: the last last one :)
12:24 PM Tom_L: i noticed an update 5hrs ago..
12:24 PM Tom_L: it was a menu item error... i forgot which one
12:24 PM Tom_L: grabbing stuff for the rpi..
12:25 PM Tom_L: but the brouser on rpi doesn't work so i had to ssh in
12:26 PM JT-Shop: you mean the documents button?
12:27 PM Tom_L: oh.. yeah that was it
12:28 PM Tom_L: trying to install 2.9
12:29 PM JT-Shop: yep, I fixed that
12:31 PM Tom_L: yay! 2.9.0~pre0 on the rpi4
12:31 PM XXCoder: nice
12:31 PM XXCoder: realtime stuff works?
12:32 PM travis_farmer: whats the latency look like on an Rpi?
12:32 PM Tom_L: doesn't wanna install your tools
12:33 PM Tom_L: can't get an exclusive lock on the package backend
12:33 PM Tom_L: nothing else is open..
12:33 PM Tom_L: i'll restart it and try again
12:34 PM Tom_L: travis_farmer, not great but workable for a mesa card
12:34 PM travis_farmer: ok, i was thinking of switching at some point, just to try
12:35 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, something about yours it can't get a package lock
12:35 PM XXCoder: I want to have rpi setup for my cnc router someday. much smaller than bulky pc
12:35 PM travis_farmer: i wonder if qtdragon or probe basic would run on a Rpi...
12:37 PM Tom_L: 48000ns servo thread
12:37 PM Tom_L: 3 glxgears running
12:37 PM Tom_L: no tweaking..
12:38 PM travis_farmer: Hmm, downloading the image...
12:38 PM Tom_L: ?
12:38 PM Tom_L: the rpi iso?
12:38 PM travis_farmer: yes
12:38 PM Tom_L: you will want to update it
12:38 PM travis_farmer: yeah, i figured
12:38 PM Tom_L: but it's still the quickest way to get goin
12:39 PM Tom_L: and i tried dl and got a corrupt zip error
12:39 PM Tom_L: so i can post it if it's corrupt
12:39 PM Tom_L: i found an older copy i had
12:39 PM travis_farmer: oh, i am going with the other setup, but i just want something smaller than a rack computer
12:41 PM pere: full speed on my X axis seem to be 20 cm per second or more, which make it both hard to measure speed, and make the resolver velocity values particularly strange.
12:42 PM Tom_L: how can i tell if i'm running 32 or 64bit on an rpi4?
12:42 PM Tom_L: i bet that's the issue with mesact installing
12:43 PM pere: uname -a or lsb_release -a?
12:43 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: should be able to tell using un ah im slow lol
12:43 PM Tom_L: neither show that
12:44 PM Tom_L: just shows buster
12:44 PM XXCoder: theres another that should show cpu type a sec
12:44 PM Tom_L: or '10'
12:44 PM pere: the arch should be listed from uname?
12:44 PM pere: dpkg-architecture might help too
12:44 PM XXCoder: cat /proc/cpuinfo
12:44 PM Tom_L: yeah it's 32bit
12:45 PM Tom_L: dpkg-architecture showedit
12:45 PM pere: 32 bit should be enough for everyone.
12:46 PM Tom_L: his package is built for 64bit
12:50 PM JT-Shop2: Tom_L: yup mesact is built for 64 bit
12:50 PM Tom_L: can i clone and build it for 32?
12:50 PM JT-Shop2: yep
12:50 PM Tom_L: how?
12:50 PM Tom_L: i'm cloining now..
12:51 PM JT-Shop2: give me a bit to post the instructions to build a deb
12:51 PM Tom_L: ok
12:51 PM Tom_L: i used to have those somewhere
12:53 PM Tom_L: dpkg-buildpackage -b
12:53 PM Tom_L: ?
12:53 PM pere: apt-get source -b package or cd sourcepackagewithdebiandir && debuild
12:53 PM pere: (I strong recommend debuild from the devscripts package over dpkg-buildpackage
12:53 PM pere: )
12:56 PM JT-Shop2: mesact should build on 32 bit let me wander downstairs and get the build line
12:56 PM Tom_L: take your time so i can install hexchat :)
12:58 PM JT-Cave: dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc
12:59 PM JT-Cave: execute that from the mesact directory the one with src, debian and man directories
12:59 PM JT-Cave: in it
01:00 PM JT-Cave: IIRC I never could get debuild to work
01:00 PM * JT-Cave wanders back to the big shop
01:02 PM pere: JT-Cave: perhaps the build rules in debian/ are incorrect? debuild will do quite a lot of automated quality control.
01:03 PM JT-Shop2: I don't know, I never could figure it out
01:03 PM JT-Shop2: if you can make it work let me know how
01:03 PM pere: do not even know what mesact is, nor where to find the source. :)
01:05 PM JT-Shop2: https://github.com/jethornton/mesact
01:05 PM JT-Shop2: it creates configurations for Mesa cards
01:06 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:08 PM travis_farmer: so, just put the flashed MicroSD into my Pi4, and booted it... had issues updating, so i didn't yet. but it ran LinuxCNC, right out of the box! so my next step is to get a dedicated RPi at some point, and try it all in-full. :)
01:09 PM travis_farmer: it died, trying to run qtdragon though...
01:12 PM pere: JT-Shop2: 'git clone https://github.com/jethornton/mesact; cd mesact/mesact; debuild' work here.
01:13 PM pere: note, lintian found some issues:
01:13 PM pere: E: mesact source: missing-separator-between-items in mesact Depends field between 'python3-requests' and '${misc:Depends}'
01:13 PM pere: W: mesact source: debhelper-but-no-misc-depends mesact
01:13 PM pere: W: mesact source: no-versioned-debhelper-prerequisite 11
01:14 PM Tom_rpi: i had to install that
01:14 PM Tom_rpi: i'm on buster though
01:14 PM Tom_L: seems to be building here
01:15 PM JT-Shop2: pere: debuild with no flags?
01:15 PM pere: JT-Shop2: yeah. do not care about the 'unable to sign' messages at the end.
01:15 PM JT-Shop2: lintian issues are so verbose they are hard to fix lol
01:15 PM pere: could have used the same you did, to quite down the stuff.
01:15 PM JT-Shop2: ok I'll wander down in a bit and give it a try
01:16 PM pere: JT-Shop2: the first two are basicly the same, a missing comma
01:16 PM JT-Shop2: ok
01:16 PM pere: and the latter is a mismatch between debian/compat and debian/control. the latter claim v8 is needed, while the former require v11.
01:17 PM pere: JT-Shop2: if you need more details, you can rerun lintian with -i
01:18 PM travis_farmer: Hmmm, no Rpi4's in stock anywhere local... will try it all out later i guess...
01:19 PM pere: Rpi4 are getting rare and expensive...
01:20 PM travis_farmer: yeah, no more $35 SBC's anymore ;)
01:21 PM travis_farmer: i have a Rpi4 compute module i could use, but it has no wifi, so no internet connection for updates...
01:22 PM travis_farmer: may just stick with what i have that is working...
01:22 PM JT-Shop2: pere: thanks
01:22 PM JT-Shop2: raining now so stuck out here as I might float away
01:23 PM Tom_rpi: CNC menu has a new entry now
01:23 PM XXCoder: pine64 is making new board, similiar to rpi
01:23 PM Tom_rpi: mesact
01:24 PM pere: JT-Shop2: if you decide to decide to fix the lintian errors, you might also consider commiting the result from wrap-and-sort.
01:29 PM Tom_L: ok installed and read the 7i96s config i built from the other pc
01:33 PM Tom_L: ok that's a problem.
01:34 PM Tom_L: can't build mesaflash on the rpi due to libpci
01:34 PM Tom_L: rpi has no pci :)
01:34 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:34 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:34 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop,
01:35 PM Tom_L: need mesaflash 3.4.3 to run the tool
01:36 PM Tom_L: however 3.4.0~pre built on it with no complaints
01:47 PM * JT-Shop2 sees it's stopped raining
01:48 PM travis_farmer: quick, run for it JT!
01:54 PM JT-Cave: pere, what is wrap-and-sort
02:06 PM JT-Cave: pere, debuild -us -uc works for me and lintian is a happy camper
02:06 PM * JT-Cave heads back to the shop
02:24 PM _unreal_: ok I'm 90% done cad designing a new cyclone
02:24 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop2, will the tool use mesaflash if it's the pre version?
02:24 PM _unreal_: done a lot of math on this. It should work way better then my current one
02:24 PM _unreal_: way better
02:24 PM Tom_L: oh, no it won't work on the 7i96s
02:24 PM Tom_L: nevermind
02:26 PM Tom_L: where would i look for libpci for the rpi4?
02:26 PM Tom_L: doesn't seem to be available
02:29 PM JT-Shop2: Tom_L: yes for any card except the 7i96S
02:30 PM JT-Shop2: Tom_L: a build dependency for mesact?
02:30 PM pere: JT-Shop2: wrap-and-sort is a tool making a (more) predictable content in debian/ (control and a few other files).
02:30 PM Tom_L: no libpci is required to build mesaflash 3.4.3
02:31 PM Tom_L: but can't seem to find it for the rpi4
02:31 PM Tom_L: mesact compiled and installed fine
02:31 PM pere: is there pci on rpi?
02:32 PM Tom_L: no but mesaflash needs it to compile
02:34 PM Tom_L: "pkg-config can't find libpci". Stop.
02:34 PM JT-Shop2: I don't see an option to make without it
02:34 PM Tom_L: maybe there should be one if the rpi is a viable platform
02:35 PM Tom_L: that or find a lib for it
02:36 PM pere: According to <URL: https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=pciutils > is is building on arm*
02:36 PM Tom_L: lemme hook up some cards and see if 3.4.0~pre will work
02:36 PM pere: Tom_L: did you try to install libpci-dev or libpci?
02:36 PM Tom_L: just libpci
02:36 PM Tom_L: lemme try the dev
02:36 PM pere: it is libpci3, according to the tracker.
02:37 PM pere: but you do not need the library, you need the header and development part.
02:37 PM Tom_L: now it burps on libmd
02:37 PM JT-Shop2: sudo apt install libpci-dev libmd-dev pkg-config build-essential git
02:37 PM Tom_L: same thing.. libmd-dev
02:38 PM Tom_L: ok it's building
02:38 PM pere: Tom_L: if you use debuild, it should tell you what to install if debian/control has correct build-depends.
02:39 PM Tom_L: make install and it still shows 3.4.0~pre0
02:39 PM Tom_L: i'm not familiar with debuild
02:39 PM Tom_L: i'm just a rookie ya know
02:39 PM JT-Shop2: for mesaflash I just do sudo make install
02:40 PM Tom_L: ok i forgot sudo
02:40 PM Tom_L: 3.4.0 installed
02:40 PM Tom_L: 3.4.3
02:40 PM pere: Tom_L: for mesaflash, I normally add deb-src for unstable in /etc/apt/sources.list, and then apt update && apt-get source -b mesaflash
02:41 PM * Tom_L looks for a cat5 cable
02:46 PM Tom_L: ok i need to set up a static ip.. i forgot to to that
02:58 PM Rhine_Labs: https://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/machine-tetris-1024x578.jpg
02:58 PM _unreal_: and its done
02:58 PM _unreal_: so I just finished designing a new cyclone for dust and particles. MAN that was a lot of math
02:59 PM _unreal_: this should clear EVERYTHING only the finest of dust should escape
03:00 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I just found a cat6 cable... :) will that do
03:01 PM Tom_L: nope, it's too far away
03:01 PM JT-Shop2: Rhine_Labs: what's behind the lathe?
03:01 PM Rhine_Labs: Co2 Laser
03:02 PM JT-Shop2: cool
03:02 PM Rhine_Labs: https://www.stevenrhine.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/20220630_185139-1024x576.jpg
03:04 PM Rhine_Labs: Laser Cut Arcade Cabinets LOL
03:05 PM JT-Shop2: that's pretty big, what is the xy?
03:05 PM Tom_L: mmm doesn't want to find the 7i96s
03:05 PM Tom_L: can't ping either
03:06 PM Tom_L: but eth0 is set to
03:06 PM XXCoder: there should be some name you can use, like devicename.local
03:07 PM XXCoder: it should return ip address
03:08 PM Tom_L: tried different cable.. same thing
03:09 PM Tom_L: same with 7i92
03:13 PM _unreal_: under the folder dust collector I just put all the photos of the cad drawing. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PAgv2L3UJL2gOle35AczsBejKtVXsq5d?usp=sharing
03:16 PM Rhine_Labs: 36 X 48
03:20 PM Rhine_Labs: Z is about 10"
03:21 PM _unreal_: this cyclone design is made for the 1.5" hose vacuum systems. and it follows aspects of cyclones that NO one seems to follow in there designs. sigh
03:21 PM _unreal_: cant wait till I get this printed
03:26 PM Tom_L: yay! finally
03:30 PM Tom_L: and it recognizes the sserial 7i84
03:31 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, you want this armf.deb?
03:36 PM sliptonicBradCol: What's the best supported distro to build v2.9 on?
03:36 PM Tom_L: debian 10
03:37 PM Tom_L: but there are debs
03:38 PM Tom_L: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/buster/master-rtpreempt/
03:38 PM Tom_L: master being 2.9
03:39 PM roycroft: i have applied the last coat of finish to my remaining trays - i shall be able to install them in an hour or so
03:39 PM Tom_L: linuxcnc-uspace_2.9.0~pre0.6931.g228dc1a79_amd64.deb looks like the latest build
03:39 PM roycroft: in the meantime, i've been doing some more research on this crappy filament that i have
03:40 PM roycroft: i found a couple references to the gst3d being variable from batch to batch, and that printing temperature may have to be adjusted on a per-batch basis, even for the same color
03:40 PM sliptonicBradCol: Hm. I'm on debian 10 building from source. The problem I'm seeing is appearing even in sim configs. But not on another machine I have that's running debian testing. Thought it might be python related.
03:40 PM roycroft: and that the problems i'm having - jamming and breaking on retraction - may be related to printing at too low a temperature
03:41 PM roycroft: so i just loaded some of the crap and upped the print temperature by 20 degrees - to 225 - and it seems to be printing ok, at least initially
03:41 PM Tom_L: sliptonicBradCol, try the deb unless you just wanna build it
03:41 PM roycroft: i'll know better when it starts printing the walls
03:42 PM roycroft: and the first spool from this batch printed at 205 just fine until the end of the spool, so perhaps it's not even a batch to batch variance, but an inter-batch variance
03:42 PM roycroft: like they don't mix the pellets evenly enough when they start extruding the filament
03:42 PM XXCoder: wow
03:42 PM XXCoder: I usually use 215c for everything
03:42 PM roycroft: if so, that would kind of suck
03:42 PM XXCoder: (everything pla)
03:43 PM roycroft: although it may still be cheaper to do test prints for every spool and waste a fair amount of filament doing so than to buy the other brands
03:43 PM roycroft: i'll know in a few hours how the higher temp works - it should take another 6 hours for this print
03:43 PM XXCoder: I guess so, but meh, supporting such company dunno
03:43 PM roycroft: assuming it completes the print
03:44 PM roycroft: well i have a dispute in with my cc company
03:44 PM pere: I believe I figured out my velocity measurement issues. RESOLVER_VELOCITY_SCALE is out of wack, need to come up with a better number for it.
03:44 PM roycroft: my reason for doing that was to get gst3d to respond to me
03:44 PM roycroft: they may think they can get away with ignoring me, but if they ignore citibank it will cost them money
03:45 PM roycroft: i have never printed pla this hot before
03:45 PM roycroft: i hope it doesn't get all stringy
03:46 PM XXCoder: light strings is fine, just run over with torch or hot air and gone
03:46 PM XXCoder: its when its too heavy that its a problem
03:48 PM roycroft: there is a good chance i'll be stuck with this filament that i already have
03:48 PM roycroft: so i thought i'd try to see if i can find a way to make it work
03:48 PM XXCoder: indeed. I dislike waste also
03:49 PM roycroft: there's even a good chance that my bulk order that is supposed to ship in a week or so will ship in spite of my attempt to cancel it
03:49 PM XXCoder: I do wonder if they are simply buying as cheap pla as they can and they dont bother with specific pla type
03:49 PM roycroft: they have their own factory in florida
03:50 PM roycroft: i suspect it's a production line problem
03:50 PM XXCoder: possibly
03:50 PM XXCoder: or training problems
03:50 PM XXCoder: one guy not running it right would have random rolls bad
03:50 PM roycroft: the varying diameter of the filament indicates a production issue
03:50 PM roycroft: productione problem includes both equipment issues and operator error issues
03:51 PM roycroft: i won't speculate what the root problem is
03:51 PM roycroft: i do know that back in the early '80s, i worked a a couple different steel mills doing qa, one produced electrical conduit, and the other galvanized water pipe
03:52 PM roycroft: my job was to go onto the production floor every 30 minutes and cut a sample of the product coming out of each production line, and take it back to the lab to analyze
03:52 PM JT-Shop2: they could be using regrind
03:52 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have found that cheap filament is seldom worth the price. My time is worth more that fiddling about trying to get each spool to work or to deal with variable filament diameter.
03:53 PM roycroft: we'd check roundness, inner and outer diameter, thickness and eveness of galvanizing, etc.
03:53 PM roycroft: if gst3d are not doing qa checks like that then it's bound to be quite variable in quality
03:53 PM roycroft: i'm beginning to think that myself, zincboy
03:54 PM roycroft: i did buy a couple spools to test before i placed a bulk order
03:54 PM roycroft: and the first two spools printed great
03:54 PM roycroft: better than i expected
03:54 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: They didn't have in line monitors for that? The steel rolling mill I am familiar with had in line x-ray thickness monitors and defect detection.
03:54 PM roycroft: this was in the early '80s
03:55 PM roycroft: those kinds of monitors mostly did not exist then, and certainly did not exist in a 50 year old factory
03:55 PM roycroft: everything was very old in both those factories where i worked
03:57 PM roycroft: this was in chicago, where everything was old anyway :)
03:57 PM * JT-Shop2 finally got the egg drawer to fit perfectly
03:57 PM roycroft: actually, it was in the late '70s, not early '80s, because i moved to the west coast in 1980
03:57 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Fair. The mill I was talking about was run by a PDP-11, well a PDP-11 emulated on a DEC alpha emulated on a x86 server. No one could get the re-write to work so they just kept emulating as the hardware went obsolete 🙂
03:58 PM roycroft: the pdp-11 was brand new when i was working at those factories
03:59 PM jdh: I retired my last production pdp11 about 5 years ago
04:00 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop2, the config works fine on the rpi4
04:00 PM Tom_L: i posted the deb if you want it
04:00 PM roycroft: at least it wasn't written for a pdp-12
04:00 PM Tom_L: although it will change
04:00 PM Tom_L: but seems good now
04:00 PM roycroft: it's hard to emulate a 12-bit computer
04:00 PM roycroft: well, not particularly hard, but inefficient
04:00 PM Tom_L: how about a 1bit processor?
04:01 PM XXCoder: 12 of 1 bit processors?
04:01 PM roycroft: you mean a person who pokes you with a stick when they want you to do something?
04:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sliptonic (Brad Collette): thanks for finding the bug in Gmoccapy with 2.9 on deb11, now someone just has to find the fix, does sound Python related since 2.9 and deb11 are the new all Python3 versions of LCNC
04:01 PM Tom_L: nope, rue wrote an assembler for a 1 bit processor
04:01 PM JT-Shop2: Tom_L: where did you post it?
04:02 PM Tom_L: in a very special place
04:02 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/mesact/
04:02 PM JT-Shop2: I figured that lol
04:02 PM sliptonicBradCol: CaptainHindsight Is it an actual bug?
04:03 PM JT-Shop2: I'll grab it in the morning
04:03 PM Tom_L: but if you hit the deb button you won't get the right one!
04:03 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Interesting design. The proportions of the cone look about right but the inlet/outlet arrangement is non-traditional. I will be interested in the separation efficiency as it looks like all the separation needs to happen in the cylindrical inlet section. The cone wont contribute to separation as there is no exhaust flow out the center.
04:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they don't check the diameter of cheap filaments the whole time as they extrude them, they check at the start and just keep the machine settings the same for the run
04:03 PM sliptonicBradCol: I'm only 40% convinced it isn't something on my side. Trying the packages per Tom_L and stuck in dependency hell
04:03 PM roycroft: and that's a big part of the problem, capthindsight
04:04 PM roycroft: when the filament started jamming and breaking, it felt "bumpy" when i ran my fingers across it
04:04 PM Tom_L: sliptonicBradCol, here's a fairly good dependency list: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/rpi4-emc.html
04:04 PM roycroft: and some spot measurements showed it as very inconsistent in diameter
04:04 PM Tom_L: if i build from scratch i just cut n paste them
04:05 PM Tom_L: there's one it won't find
04:05 PM Tom_L: some gtksourceview or such lib
04:05 PM sliptonicBradCol: I've installed all of that and succesfully built from source many times. But Trying to dpkg -i the .deb from the link above, I get complaints about unmet dependencies.
04:05 PM Tom_L: for gmocapy and friends
04:05 PM roycroft: it was pretty uniformly round i.e. a measurement taken at a particular location on the filament would measure the same when measured again 90 degrees to the first one, but if i moved down a cm or so it could differ by 0.05mm or more
04:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sliptonic (Brad Collette): we have debs for 2.9 if you wish to try them
04:06 PM Tom_L: sliptonicBradCol, try an earlier deb
04:06 PM Tom_L: there's a whole list of them there
04:06 PM roycroft: anyway, this print is on the second layer, and it seems to be fine so far, but the box bottom is 5 or 6 layers thick, and the problem did not manifest itself until the side walls were being printed before
04:06 PM Tom_L: i grabbed the latest one for armf and it worked for me
04:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sliptonic (Brad Collette): https://repository.qtpyvcp.com/repo/
04:07 PM sliptonicBradCol: That's what I'm trying. (2.9) linuxcnc-uspace_2.9.0~pre0.4421.ge060ed441_i386.deb
04:07 PM roycroft: i did not notice the unevenness in the filament diameter in the spool that mostly printed fine
04:07 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop2, you need a way to detect an rpi build!
04:07 PM Tom_L: for your dl deb button
04:08 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I worked a bit on a filament diameter meter to use as a feed forward into the 3d print controller. Unfortunately a single axis measurement does not work as the filaments aren't round. Developed an air gauge that worked quite well but it was loud and used a fair bit of compressed air. Ended up just going to better filament that had good process control a the factory.
04:08 PM roycroft: i'm trying to return this filament, but the vendor are not responding to me
04:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sliptonic (Brad Collette): I'm ruing those on Sid right now. I'll try to test your gmoccapy problem
04:08 PM XXCoder: capt dunno because even "cheap" $4k filament extruder constantly measures and adjusts to filament diameter
04:08 PM roycroft: and i have another order in with them that i'm trying to cancel
04:09 PM sliptonicBradCol: Sid/Testing didn't appear to show the problem. Only Bullseye
04:09 PM roycroft: i suspect that if i am stuck with the 10 spools that i have now, my cc issuer will convince them to cancel the pending order
04:09 PM roycroft: but i'm not sure that will happen
04:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sliptonic (Brad Collette): interesting I'll note that on the forums
04:10 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Eh, most of them only do single axis testing. Need to measure cross sectional area not the diameter of a single point. Gauges to do this are not cheap.
04:10 PM roycroft: i'm just using dial calipers, measuring at a point, and then again at the same point rotated 90 degrees to the first measurement
04:10 PM roycroft: and it's pretty consistent
04:11 PM XXCoder: 2 of single axis would tell approxate shape of circle
04:11 PM roycroft: i suspect they're extruding it unevenly
04:12 PM roycroft: but as i mentioned earlier, it could be that they're not mixing the pellets well enough in the hopper
04:12 PM roycroft: i really don't know and don't care
04:12 PM roycroft: i care that it does not work properly
04:12 PM XXCoder: indeed
04:13 PM XXCoder: oh yes costs bit more than I remembered but yeah https://www.3devo.com/shop
04:13 PM roycroft: it's the manufacturer's job to figure out why, and prevent it from happeining again
04:13 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I have tested quite a bit of filament and it does not tend to be round or even an ellipse. Some filaments are round but most of the problem ones I had weren't.
04:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: look at videos of extrusion lines that make filaments, they extrude the filament into a water bath with some tension on the filament
04:14 PM roycroft: well this stuff is pretty round
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: too high a tension and the filament gets thinner
04:15 PM roycroft: uneven tension and the filament gets bumpy
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: making them thicker than the orifice they extrude through is a challenge
04:16 PM roycroft: the stuff i'm dealing with varies between 1.70mm and 1.75mm in diameter, with a couple measurements as low as 1.68mm
04:16 PM roycroft: none of it is bigger than the nominal diameter
04:16 PM XXCoder: yeah though bigger than 1.75 is easy, since well extruder nozzle is larger than that. something like 2mm or so? they pull it and it cools down and strunks a bit
04:17 PM XXCoder: roy in least gst dont mix pla and abs lol
04:17 PM roycroft: i should hope that nobody does that
04:18 PM XXCoder: my first printer, elcrapo, come with blue roll. it started woth pla and changed to abs lol
04:18 PM XXCoder: I threw the roll away
04:18 PM roycroft: that would be a disaster
04:18 PM XXCoder: it was. it was impossible to print after few first stuff was excellent
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: all you need to do is have a micrometer on the entrance to the printers hot end and adapt the feed rate to the change in filament size :)
04:18 PM roycroft: or use filament that is a consistent diameter
04:19 PM XXCoder: then it couldnt print and each time I printed something, room air felt worse and I got dizzy (it was years ago, well before my current perment dizzyness)
04:19 PM XXCoder: it got so bad and it was printing way too cool. I tried abs temp and it was perfect
04:19 PM XXCoder: so i threw roll away
04:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or pre-melt the filament before the hot end so all it has to do is deposit
04:20 PM roycroft: if i were doing real production printing i would probably get a pellet-feed hot end and be done with extruded filament
04:20 PM roycroft: it would be cheaper, there would be no more end-of-spool waste
04:20 PM roycroft: it could run continuously, as long as someone kept the hopper fed
04:21 PM XXCoder: if I used that much plastic, I'd probably buy that machine. pellets is a LOT cheaper
04:21 PM XXCoder: 5k pounds is bit too much though, I'd need to make probably 5000 rolls to make even
04:21 PM XXCoder: **500
04:22 PM XXCoder: assuming $10 saving per roll
04:22 PM roycroft: that was 5k euros not £5k
04:22 PM roycroft: but it's still a lot
04:22 PM XXCoder: oops yes. i keeps forgetting pounds vs euros
04:23 PM XXCoder: also 10 euro saving per roll not usd
04:23 PM * roycroft checks on his print and on his trays - they should be about dry now
04:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: DIY powder bed fusion to lower costs further
04:25 PM Tom_L: air gage is about the most accurate way to measure a hole
04:25 PM XXCoder: tom yeah. shop used one, but I never used one lol
04:30 PM roycroft: the print is still working, and the trays are ready
04:30 PM XXCoder: nice
04:30 PM XXCoder: in least it seems fixable
04:31 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: They are pretty easy to make. Just need a differential pressure sensor and a plug that is about the right size. The challenge is calibrating them. Also, they don't really measure diameter they more measure area. Though with clever plug design you can get close to a single point diameter measurement.
04:31 PM roycroft: yeah, the cabinets will be done in about an hour, other than the top counter
04:36 PM JT-Shop: well my amazon package has been delivered to front door porch... I wonder who's front door porch it's on?
04:38 PM Tom_L: did you specify?
04:38 PM Tom_L: it could be anywhere
04:38 PM JT-Shop: somewhere in the poplar bluff zip code...
04:39 PM * Tom_L calls it a day for the rpi4 project
04:39 PM Tom_L: buster w/2.9 & mesact all working
04:40 PM Tom_L: ~48000us servo_thread with no tweaks
04:41 PM XXCoder: been working on minor programming project but I dont understand it enough lol'
04:41 PM XXCoder: been trying to get content side of javascript to read website data
04:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: what happens when you fire up firefox? :)
04:59 PM pere: what does "Qtvcp only" mean? Found in <URL: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/ini-config.html >.
05:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pere:
05:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: DISPLAY = axis - The name of the user interface to use. Valid options may include: axis, touchy, gmoccapy, gscreen, tklinuxcnc, qtvcp
05:01 PM pere: so Qtvcp is not a strange acronym?
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it is one of the available user interfaces
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: QT video control panel
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even more fun is QTPYVCP
05:01 PM pere: Aha. Perhaps the doc should be changed to use complete and understandable sentences instead...
05:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: QT Python video control panel :)
05:02 PM JT-Shop2: except in the titles which should not be a paragraph like some think they should
05:02 PM pere: Like 'This keyword is only used by the Qtvcp frontend.' :)
05:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i wish I lived in a world where people took docs seriously
05:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: writing and editing
05:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: consistency would help tremedously
05:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: at the same time, great coders tend to have expressive writing issues
05:04 PM pere: CaptHindsight[m]: that is not my experience. those unable to write well are mostly mediocre coders.
05:05 PM XXCoder: write well and expressive isnt quite same I would think
05:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the main issue tends to be assuming that the reader already knows how some code works vs having to explain it to a new user
05:08 PM pere: <URL: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/1792 >.
05:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the USA in general have very poor signage for directions on roads, transportation hubs, stations etc
05:09 PM roycroft: well, my trays are all installed - i just have to put a coat of finish on the fronts of them and that will be done
05:09 PM roycroft: so yay
05:09 PM roycroft: and the filament just jammed, and my print is spoiled
05:09 PM roycroft: so blech
05:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's like the signs are just there to remind you vs help someone new to the locations
05:10 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], firefox wasn't installed and chrome didn't work on it
05:11 PM Tom_L: i had so ssh in to move some files around
05:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it might be interesting to rewrite firefox to use far less interrupts
05:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but only real time users would care
05:12 PM roycroft: i'm also finding that this spool of filament is not only uneven in diameter, it has a bunch of kinks, and it also very brittle
05:13 PM XXCoder: brittleness usually can be solved by drying, but other issues yeah dunno
05:13 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure why the default chrome that came installed wouldn't launch
05:13 PM roycroft: i dried it for 6 hours at 42 degrees before using it
05:13 PM Tom_L: too dry
05:14 PM roycroft: well, i dried it yesterday evening
05:14 PM roycroft: so it did sit for about 12 hours before i installed it, but it should not have picked up that much moisture in a few hours
05:14 PM roycroft: i think it's just crap filament
05:14 PM roycroft: i keep wanting that not to be true, but all signs point to crap filament
05:15 PM roycroft: oh well, i'm going to go put varnish oil on the tray fronts so can call that phase of the project done
05:15 PM Tom_L: yuo used it before?
05:16 PM roycroft: and it occured to me that, while it would be inconvenient, i could put all the drawers from my wall mounted hardware cabinets inside the drawers of my new ones for now
05:16 PM roycroft: that would let me remove the wall mounted ones and install the lumber racks
05:17 PM roycroft: so if this filament saga continues for much longer, i'll have a way of working around it
05:24 PM JT-Shop2: roycroft: what did you finish the inside of the drawers with?
06:01 PM _unreal_: anyone take a look at my clone images?
06:02 PM Tom_L: no just me
06:16 PM roycroft: shellac
06:17 PM roycroft: i always use shellac or lacquer on the insides of drawers/cabinets, because they don't offgas for weeks after applying the finish
06:18 PM roycroft: actually, i take that back
06:18 PM roycroft: sometimes when i build a machine stand using mdf i'll paint the inside of the stand with latex paint
06:18 PM roycroft: but other than that, always shellac or lacquer
06:19 PM roycroft: and i prime mdf with a shellac-based paint
06:26 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/29_Almost_Finished_1.jpeg
06:27 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/30_Almost_Finshed_2.jpeg
06:27 PM roycroft: all that is left to do is install the top counter and a trim strip on the bottom of the cabinets
06:28 PM roycroft: and install label tag plates on all the drawers/trays, but that will wait a few weeks until the varnish oil is really well cured
06:28 PM * roycroft will be happy to put that project to bed - it's taken far too long
06:29 PM XXCoder: lol well you wanted decent drawers, and you got em
06:29 PM roycroft: it might have taken me less time to build my workbench, in terms of days, although the workbench was many more hours
06:30 PM roycroft: i'm generally pleased with how it's working out
06:30 PM roycroft: i still hate the drawer pulls - they're just too bulky looking for that many so close together
06:30 PM roycroft: but those are easy to replace
06:31 PM roycroft: and i wish the drawer fronts lined up better, but that's what i get for taking shortcuts
06:32 PM roycroft: long term i might be willing to live with the drawer fronts and just replace the pulls
06:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I could sell a UV spray coating repair kit for furniture. But i don't think it would be safe enough for consumer use.
06:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and it would require a very good cleaning of the surface before use
06:43 PM _unreal_: ok now working on trying to print this freaking cyclone
06:44 PM roycroft: i should decide if i'm going to do any other shop work or not before the fair
06:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and be kept in deep shade until cure in sunlight
06:44 PM roycroft: i want to flatten, sand, and apply some varnish oil to my bench top before the fair, so that it will have time to cure while i'm gone
06:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: corn dogs
06:45 PM roycroft: i haven't done that since i first built the bench two years ago, and it should be done annually
06:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: funnel cakes
06:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bbq turkey legs
06:45 PM roycroft: none of that kind of food is permitted at our fair
06:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and lots of bees
06:46 PM roycroft: everything is made from scratch
06:46 PM roycroft: the menus are juried before a food vendor is permitted to sell
06:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: make your own sausages booth
06:47 PM roycroft: if the sausages were made of high quality ingredients and were tasty, that could almost work
06:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 101 kinds of tacos, as long s it's beef
06:47 PM roycroft: sanitation would be an issue
06:47 PM roycroft: but if they are typical sausages, especially if they were english sausages ,which are mostly grissle, fat, and heat meat, it would probably not pass muster
06:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "Guess what you're eating" stand
06:47 PM roycroft: head meat, rather
06:48 PM roycroft: sadly, one of our most popular food booths, and a eugene legend both at the fair and in town, won't be there this year
06:48 PM roycroft: dana's cheesecake
06:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "How good is your stomach, really?"
06:49 PM roycroft: they had to cancel a couple or three months ago, out of concern that they could not make their product
06:49 PM roycroft: you might recall we had a severe cream cheese shortage a while back
06:49 PM roycroft: that was right when they had to commit to the fair or not
06:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, midwestern dairy shortage
06:50 PM roycroft: hopefully there will be a different dessert booth that will be open at 4am
06:50 PM roycroft: otherwise there will be a lot of unhappy stoners
06:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we had no problems here because "I know a guy"
06:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: did you hear that Minnesota accidentally legalized edibles?
06:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/03/minnesota-republicans-edibles-thc-accident/
06:52 PM roycroft: yes, i heard that
06:53 PM roguish[m]: accidental ???
06:53 PM roguish[m]: right
06:53 PM roycroft: i'm wondering if someone made a batch of brownies for the legislature the day they voted on that
06:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: too bad they don't accidentally do the right thing more often
06:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "there are no such things as accidents"
06:56 PM roguish[m]: well, i'm going to accidentally find a rum and tonic on the deck...................
06:57 PM * roycroft prefers a nice mojito, but is generally fine with any rum drink
06:58 PM XXCoder: capt yeah saw that. its funny
06:59 PM roycroft: wow
06:59 PM roycroft: the section of my bench in between the legs is still dead flat
07:00 PM roycroft: like i can't shove a 0.001" feeler underneath a straighedge laid across it
07:00 PM roycroft: the right side outside the legs is just slightly cupped - maybe 0.003" or so
07:01 PM roycroft: that side has a big walnut piece joining the front and back halves together, like a breadboard edge
07:01 PM roycroft: the left side is cupped about 0.010"
07:01 PM roycroft: it is not constrained at all
07:01 PM roycroft: 0.010" is pretty flat for a woodworking bency
07:01 PM roycroft: so the worst part of it is still pretty good
07:02 PM roycroft: i'm rather astonished that the middle section is dead flat
07:02 PM roycroft: and very happy
07:02 PM XXCoder: thats good yeah
07:03 PM roycroft: i guess building it so massively paid off in keeping it flat
07:03 PM roycroft: i'm not even sure i'm going to bother flattening the one section that's slightly cupped
07:04 PM roycroft: in a month it may be dead flat
07:04 PM roycroft: i finished building the bench in august, so august is probably when it will be the flattest
07:04 PM roycroft: actually, i finished building it in september of 2020
07:05 PM roycroft: i started it in august
07:26 PM acer: started my print
07:26 PM acer is now known as _unreal_
07:26 PM _unreal_: I love my delta printer
07:26 PM _unreal_: wish I had a bigger one
07:28 PM XXCoder: you can make one
07:29 PM _unreal_: yes I can but doesnt help in the moment :)
07:29 PM _unreal_: I'd like to build one with those BLDC motors
07:29 PM _unreal_: but I wont do anythiung like that till I escape this place
07:29 PM _unreal_: again market MAY GO NUTS some time soon.
07:30 PM _unreal_: ooooo the things I have planned
07:30 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, did you see the photos of the cyclone I designed?
07:30 PM XXCoder: you menioned it, but cant remember if I saw picture
07:30 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UPeafbuzTVUI1wyX-EwYIeL5fQUjnguf?usp=sharing
07:30 PM _unreal_: I just posted photos
07:30 PM _unreal_: spent all day today drawing it
07:31 PM _unreal_: its designed and tuned to the hose size
07:31 PM Tom_L: ALL DAY?!
07:32 PM _unreal_: well not all day maybe 3 hours
07:33 PM XXCoder: cool :)
07:33 PM Tom_L: :)
07:33 PM _unreal_: printing the cyclone upper body right now just started
07:34 PM XXCoder: I hate how google drive handles images
07:34 PM _unreal_: if it does what I expect. it should capture 100% of all large particals and 97% of fine particals
07:34 PM _unreal_: you can zoom
07:34 PM _unreal_: with google images
07:34 PM _unreal_: mouse wheel
07:34 PM XXCoder: well yeah
07:34 PM XXCoder: I like browser image view better lol
07:34 PM _unreal_: heh
07:34 PM XXCoder: I would need to click twice to get normal size on that site
07:34 PM _unreal_: in any case this cyclone should be amazing
07:35 PM _unreal_: the only thing I didnt add was a top side cone to the body of the seperation plate
07:36 PM _unreal_: not needed but can really cut down on fine particles
07:48 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: I don't get how your cyclone design works? It looks more like a centrifugal separator stage with a conical settling section. Usually the exhaust is out the center of the cyclone (tapered section) to allow airflow. Your separator plate blocks the center and doesn't allow the vortex airflow to form.
07:48 PM Tom_L: ZincBoy[CAON][m], ask Mr Dyson
07:49 PM Tom_L: oh you mean unreals
07:49 PM Tom_L: well, he's just unreal
07:49 PM _unreal_: LOL ZincBoy[CAON][m] its one of the most efficient types out there.
07:49 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, I am familiar with the normal cyclone designs and have built a few.
07:50 PM _unreal_: the upper plate is designed to stop the UP welling of fine dust that happens
07:50 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Can you link to any of the papers or data? I am interested to learn more.
07:50 PM _unreal_: it also increases the vortex speed at the top
07:51 PM _unreal_: while isolating the the dust and particles to below the main plate
07:51 PM _unreal_: ZincBoy[CAON][m], yes give me a few
07:52 PM _unreal_: ZincBoy[CAON][m], just an FYI, cyclones that deal with bigger particle's dont need that plate. vortex forces take care of it. finer dust how ever can get sucked up.
07:53 PM _unreal_: ZincBoy[CAON][m], example https://woodgears.ca/reader/jensen/index.html
07:53 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Yes, but with that design you don't need the conical section. It isn't doing anything other than looking cool from what I can tell. I don't see how you get airflow into the lower section.
07:54 PM _unreal_: you dont want airflow into the lower section. :) that is the trick BUT if you look close at.... um
07:54 PM _unreal_: inside seperator dividor plate
07:54 PM _unreal_: you will notice the end of the opening has an angle to it
07:55 PM _unreal_: to capture some air and help spin it below.
07:55 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Ah, yes, he does just have a cylindrical lower section. It is a centrifugal separator and not a cyclone separator.
07:55 PM _unreal_: he meaning me?
07:55 PM _unreal_: or that link
07:55 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The link.
07:57 PM _unreal_: in mine the vertical semi cylinder is mostly a deflection device. to stop lite particle's from getting sucked up before spinning out.
07:57 PM _unreal_: I've got prob 40 hours of printing ahead of me but I cant wait till its done
07:59 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: The tapered section in your design was throwing me off. I thought it was a cyclone separator but it is not. The Bill Pentz design is really efficient and has really good separation. Typically much better than a centrifugal separator due to the much longer path. See: https://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.php
07:59 PM _unreal_: I could not have said it better my self LOL
08:00 PM _unreal_: though mine is a hybrid
08:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: One suggestion is to put some conductive tape on the inside and ground it. The static generation capabilities of these are impressive. I have had mini lightning storms in my plastic separators and that is a concern with wood dust.
08:03 PM _unreal_: ! oh shit DAMN IT you just reminded me. I ment to add lighting
08:04 PM _unreal_: I cant believe I forgot
08:04 PM XXCoder: and lightning? lol
08:04 PM _unreal_: dattt tooo
08:05 PM _unreal_: I want to add 12v LED strip lighting
08:05 PM _unreal_: I can add it to the divider plate
08:06 PM _unreal_: if I do that. it will be SOOOOOO DAMN cool to watch
08:06 PM _unreal_: using "" clear "" PLA
08:06 PM _unreal_: if you can call it that
08:24 PM Tom_L: what's the program to create an rpi4 img file from a SD?
08:24 PM _unreal_: heh wish I knew. dont have an RPI4
08:25 PM _unreal_: still waiting on my RPI3
08:25 PM Tom_L: windoz
08:25 PM XXCoder: dd
08:25 PM Tom_L: windoz
08:25 PM XXCoder: lol dunno then
08:25 PM XXCoder: havent used windows for a decade
08:25 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/raspberry-pi-imager-imaging-utility/
08:26 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: That is what I used last time?
08:26 PM Tom_L: will that go from the SD back to a ssd?
08:26 PM Tom_L: i have that
08:27 PM XXCoder: would want iso creator, not sd flasher
08:27 PM ZincBoy[CAON][m]: Sorry read your request the wrong way around 🙂
08:27 PM Tom_L: i also have win32 disk imager
08:32 PM Tom_L: yeah imager works
08:32 PM Tom_L: i just forgot how to use it :)
08:40 PM XXCoder: nice
08:53 PM _unreal_: huge salad for din....
08:54 PM _unreal_: i'm sure thats going to turn into a mistake
09:00 PM _unreal_: well the print is a 3rd of the way done
09:39 PM roycroft: i went ahead and sanded my bench top and applied fresh varnish oil
09:39 PM roycroft: i shall return from the fair in eight days, so as long as i don't use the bench before the fair it should be well cured by the time i get back
09:41 PM _unreal_: damn it, I just relized I'm printing the part upside down. not a huge issue but it has some small over hangs that would have been better to have been printed inverterd.
09:41 PM _unreal_: sigh
09:49 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlEGmAbvuZs
09:49 PM skunkworks: https://photos.app.goo.gl/YqDsYKmRVvLAJvma8
09:50 PM skunkworks: https://photos.app.goo.gl/J6uPVmqVKGDU9fhK9
09:52 PM XXCoder: nicely done
09:55 PM skunkworks: The chuck is a little on the big side.. But will work for some things. we have a couple smaller 4 jaws coming too..
09:55 PM skunkworks: I made a few extra blanks..
09:56 PM skunkworks: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Kkfz157mtXaMZ9Xh8
09:56 PM skunkworks: (we didn't have any 4 jaw chucks for the emco)
09:57 PM skunkworks: emco's?
09:57 PM XXCoder: 4 blanks is 2x as hard as 1 blank
09:58 PM skunkworks: lol - no.. Not when done on the K&T.. after the first one is programed - the rest are cake
09:58 PM XXCoder: yeah, it applies even when manual though
10:17 PM _unreal_: over haf way done
10:17 PM _unreal_: sigh
10:52 PM _unreal_: sweet it made the bridge jump
11:59 PM _unreal_: There the first of 5 prints is done