#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 22 2022

01:39 AM Deejay: moin
01:47 AM travis_farmer: G'Morning :)
03:54 AM randy__: morning
03:55 AM XXCoder: wow a new jer schmidt video. been a year
04:38 AM Tom_L: morning
04:39 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:57 AM * travis_farmer853 uploaded an image: (3652KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/uGLkbtxTfyXLZQetlNHFKcih/IMG_0001.JPG >
04:57 AM travis_farmer853: wanted to share a example of the work my father and i did. we built the complete kitchen (and house interior). the cabinets are birch, with zero particle-board 🙂
05:10 AM JT-Cave: I wish I had made my kitchen that big...
05:11 AM travis_farmer: it was in an old 1900 farmhouse (post and beam), and yes, a very large kitchen ;)
06:21 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:34 AM JT-Cave: roycroft, This is a test mail sent using "SMTP". Your email settings are correct!
07:51 AM travis_farmer: i don't think he is active yet ;)
08:07 AM JT-Cave: he'll see it when he logs in maybe
09:21 AM * JT-Shop heads to the industrial park to work
09:49 AM Thorhian7490[m]: I hate particle board. Looks great.
09:49 AM travis_farmer: thank you :)
10:02 AM roycroft: mdf is a great building material
10:03 AM travis_farmer: still don't like it.
10:03 AM roycroft: it's far superior to solid wood for many applications
10:03 AM XXCoder: as long as seal is good
10:03 AM roycroft: and there are formaldahyde-free varieties now, so it's quite safe
10:04 AM travis_farmer: but has the look of cardboard, with a sticker on it
10:04 AM roycroft: well it shouldn't normally be exposed
10:04 AM roycroft: either veneered or painted is fine
10:04 AM travis_farmer: i prefer real wood, and finish grade plywood construction for cabinets
10:05 AM roycroft: mdf is real wood
10:05 AM roycroft: it's just ground up wood
10:05 AM travis_farmer: aka, cardboard ;)
10:06 AM roycroft: i cannot see spending $200/sheet on cabinet grade plywood, when mdf is more stable, and the so-called cabinet grade plywood needs to be veneered anyway in most cases
10:06 AM roycroft: the 1/42" thick veneer on that plywood is closer to 1/60" these days, and getting thinner all the time
10:06 AM roycroft: and it's usually not very nice veneer
10:07 AM travis_farmer: i have seen MDF and particle board fail in wet enviroments, such as under a sink
10:07 AM roycroft: i much prefer cutting my own 1/8" thick veneers and covering mdf with it
10:07 AM roycroft: well
10:08 AM roycroft: 1. not all building materials are suitable for all applications, and because it does not work well for one application does not mean it is not suitable for all applictions
10:08 AM roycroft: 2. there is waterproof mdf now that holds up very well in wet environments, even outdoors
10:09 AM XXCoder: wonder how long that'd last underwater
10:09 AM roycroft: and i'm not talking about standard particle board here - i find its uses fairly limited
10:09 AM roycroft: probably about as long as most solid woods would last underwater
10:09 AM XXCoder: if thats the case, then yeah seems reasonable
10:09 AM travis_farmer: just saying, because of my experiance with mdf and particle board, i choose not to use it
10:09 AM XXCoder: seen bad mdf just grow in room
10:09 AM XXCoder: acting as diseccant
10:10 AM roycroft: mdf is vastly superior to plywood as a veneer substrate
10:10 AM roycroft: but i'll say again
10:10 AM roycroft: mdf and particle board are two different products
10:11 AM travis_farmer: i have seen too many fasteners pull right through MDF, to consider it being superior
10:12 AM roycroft: big box store mdf is fine for some things, but to address your concerns, go to a proper supplier of architectural wood products to get the good stuff
10:13 AM roycroft: using the wrong kind of joinery is not an indictment of mdf - it's a lack of skill/knowledge on the part of the person using the mdf
10:13 AM roycroft: i'm not saying that you must use mdf
10:13 AM roycroft: i'm saying that if you don't use it you're limiting yourself
10:14 AM XXCoder: talking about joinery, I printed the female side. turns out I completely forgot a feature, making it impossible lol
10:14 AM travis_farmer: i have installed many "expensive, quality" cabinets bought by customers from Home Depot, and seen 80% of the joints broken in shipping
10:14 AM XXCoder: i made new model, it SHOULD work, since I actually tested male model motion into female and found no conflicts
10:14 AM roycroft: especially when it comes to cabinet or furniture construction that requires large panels
10:14 AM travis_farmer: now i just build cabinets, and install only moy own built cabinets ;)
10:14 AM roycroft: shop-cut veneer over mdf is superior to solid wood or "cabinet grade plywood" any day
10:15 AM travis_farmer: not going to change my opinion, i am too stubborn when it comes to what i have seen happen with materials
10:16 AM roycroft: your loss
10:16 AM roycroft: and your customers' loss
10:17 AM travis_farmer: cabinets i build have so far stood up far better than any mdf or particle board cabinets i have ever seen
10:18 AM roycroft: well since you keep lumping mdf and particle board together, you obviously just have an irrational hatred of the materials, and refuse to see the differences between the two, and refuse to see the positive qualities of mdf
10:18 AM roycroft: again, your loss and your customers' loss
10:19 AM roycroft: urea formaldehyde free, waterproof mdf does not even remotelly resemble particle board
10:19 AM roycroft: other than that both come in big flat sheets
10:19 AM travis_farmer: i do not take attacks on my build quality lightly!
10:20 AM roycroft: i don't know anything about your build quality
10:20 AM travis_farmer: yet you have an opinion of it...
10:20 AM roycroft: all i know is that you keep making arguments about mdf that i've debunked repeatedly
10:20 AM XXCoder: travis theres difference between material critque and build critque
10:20 AM roycroft: my only opinion is that you're limiting yourself
10:20 AM travis_farmer: i have already debunked you debunks with personal experiance
10:21 AM roycroft: yes, but your "personal experience" does not involve the material i'm discussing
10:21 AM roycroft: big box store mdf does have some limitations
10:21 AM roycroft: it's not wholly unsuitable for anything, but it does have moisture issues
10:22 AM travis_farmer: that is all that is availible in my area
10:22 AM roycroft: as far as fasteners pulling out, that's just a lack of skill issue, not an inherent quality of material issue
10:23 AM roycroft: you can get decent mdf just about anywhere - you might have to special order it or find a trade-specific store for it
10:23 AM roycroft: you're usually not going to find formaldehyde-free waterproof mdf at a big box store
10:23 AM travis_farmer: i can agree with the lack of skill causing the fasteners pulling out. those came from big-box built cabinets. 1/4" staples, and hot-glue
10:23 AM XXCoder: wonder how machinable those are
10:23 AM roycroft: mdf is very machinable
10:24 AM XXCoder: ok. well wont be able to for quite a while but good to know
10:24 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Just creates infinite dust
10:24 AM roycroft: it does create a lot of dust
10:24 AM roycroft: but if your shop has decent extraction that should not be a problem
10:24 AM XXCoder: yeah, id add it, once shop exists
10:25 AM roycroft: and mdf dust is not safe to breathe
10:25 AM roycroft: but if you use proper ppe that's not a problem
10:25 AM XXCoder: id wear it even if it was
10:25 AM XXCoder: my lungs isnt in great shape
10:25 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: For sure, but you need much more than a shop vac 🙂 I hade a 5hp dust collector and that did the trick.
10:26 AM roycroft: i have a proper dust collector that i use on my stationary tools
10:26 AM roycroft: my sanders are all festool, and i have an extractor for them
10:26 AM roycroft: it picks up 90+% of the dust
10:27 AM XXCoder: jer schmidt is making massive cyclone dust seperator
10:27 AM roycroft: i was sanding for a couple hours last night
10:27 AM XXCoder: he finally made a video after a year
10:27 AM roycroft: i had the shop doors open, i used the extractor (as i always do - i have my sanders set to refuse to turn on if the extractor is not hooked up), and i had a fan set up behind me blowing away from me
10:27 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: The problem with wood dust is the fine particles <2.5um and you need a massive amount of airflow to keep those down.
10:27 AM roycroft: i did not wear a mask, and did not need one
10:28 AM roycroft: the key is to not let them get airborne in the first place
10:29 AM travis_farmer: sorry i got angry with you roycroft, just when i feel like my build quality and experience is being attacked, i go into a rage (part of my Autism)
10:29 AM roycroft: when i used the tablesaw i hooked the extractor up to the saw itself, i hooked a shop vac up to the sled, and i wore a mask, because i don't get that good extraction on the table saw
10:29 AM roycroft: travis_farmer: no worries - and i'm not attacking your build quality
10:29 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Wood dust is a sensitizer so you will be fine until you are not. Then there is nothing you can do. PPE is important.
10:29 AM roycroft: i'm just trying to help you see that mdf is just another material, and if you understand its properties well it can be very useful
10:30 AM XXCoder: zinc yeah so many wood shop channels I watch, they wear entire head breathers
10:30 AM XXCoder: not always but when dust heavy stuff like using sand wheel
10:30 AM roycroft: zincboy: i do use ppe, and i've been working with wood for over 45 years
10:30 AM roycroft: i've not been sensitized yet, so i think i'm doing an ok job
10:31 AM roycroft: travis_farmer: i also get that not everyone can use high quality mdf and make and apply shop-made veneer
10:31 AM roycroft: that's just beyond the capabilities of some shops
10:32 AM roycroft: in which case the cabinet grade plywood has to do
10:32 AM roycroft: and cabinet grade plywood is not a bad material
10:32 AM travis_farmer: in my area, quality MDF is unavailable, so that puts it out of the price market for both me and my customers. even the local lumber yards sell big-box quality mdf and particle board, as that is the price they are compeating with.
10:32 AM roycroft: as far as price, since you just alluded to it
10:32 AM roycroft: 3/4" big box store mdf is $60.88 right now here
10:33 AM roycroft: the formaldehyde free waterproof stuff is $72 at the architectural wood supplier i use
10:33 AM roycroft: it's not a big cost difference
10:33 AM roycroft: but availability can definitely be an issue
10:34 AM XXCoder: I suppose if business, would make one bulk order
10:34 AM roycroft: i'm fortunate to live in a city that's big enough to have some decent suppliers
10:34 AM XXCoder: cheaper with builk, even with shipping
10:34 AM roycroft: and when i need things i can't get here, portland is only a couple hours awya
10:34 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: The PAPR systems are great. I use one for welding now and it is so much nicer than the respirator under the mask I actually use it instead of thiniking "oh, it is just a bit of welding" 🙂
10:34 AM travis_farmer: we tried to get marine-grade plywood for a customer once. again, unavailable, cost-wise.
10:35 AM roycroft: travis_farmer: you have to do the best you can with the materials available to you
10:35 AM roycroft: i won't dispute that if you can't get the good mdf that your using cabinet grade plywood is the best option
10:35 AM travis_farmer: yes, and i believe we do. and our customers do as well :)
10:35 AM roycroft: my only issue is in characterising mdf as an inherently inferior product
10:36 AM roycroft: because it is categorically not
10:36 AM roycroft: IF you get decent mdf
10:36 AM travis_farmer: that is a comparison of what is availible ;)
10:36 AM roycroft: and IF you use it properly
10:36 AM roycroft: even big box store mdf is quite suitable for many applications, and superior to plywood for many applications
10:37 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: I love MDF for making speakers because of its uniform properties. BUT you do need to get the good stuff that doesn't stink for years.. Learned that the hard way 🙂
10:37 AM roycroft: it does need to be sealed well so that the formaldehyde does not offgas
10:37 AM travis_farmer: under sinks is where we have seen both MDF and Particle board fail
10:37 AM roycroft: sure
10:37 AM roycroft: and i would never use the big box mdf there
10:38 AM roycroft: the waterproof stuff would be fine there
10:38 AM roycroft: but if you can't get it you can't get it
10:38 AM roycroft: standard plywood will also fail in that application, but it would take longer to fail
10:38 AM travis_farmer: anyway, gotta make lunch now (11:38)
10:38 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: That is a tough application for any wood product. My counter is plywood under tile and is starting to fail due to water leakage.
10:40 AM roycroft: marine plywood or waterproof mdf will hold up pretty well
10:41 AM * roycroft will be using mdf with 1/8" thick shop-cut veneer for the countertop on his fastener cabinet project
10:41 AM roycroft: i considered cabinet-grade plywood, because it would be faster and easier, but the veneers are so thin i was certain it would not hold up in my shop environment for very long
10:42 AM roguish[m]: _discord_554508768402997249[m]: epoxy coat the plywood. West Systems https://www.westsystem.com/
10:42 AM roycroft: and there's so much so-called cabinet grade plywood that uses crappy, rotary-cut veneers anyway that i find it hideous
10:42 AM * roycroft hates resin-coated wood
10:43 AM roguish[m]: then tile over it
10:43 AM roycroft: the worst trend in the history of woodworking/cabinetry is the "river table"
10:43 AM roycroft: every time i see one i almost hurl
10:43 AM XXCoder: hence making a "river"
10:44 AM roycroft: and
10:44 AM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/27_First_Finished_Drawers.jpeg
10:44 AM roguish[m]: roycroft: I agree. that's why I said tile over the epoxy. anyway, it's like a paint.
10:44 AM roycroft: look at the top
10:44 AM roycroft: i am familiar with west systems products
10:44 AM roycroft: west systems is not very good for those kinds of pours anyway
10:45 AM roycroft: it's not as transparent as some of the other brands
10:45 AM roycroft: but it's a good adhesive, which is how i use it
10:45 AM roycroft: the only "river table" i like is the one that matt estlea made
10:46 AM roycroft: because his is a satire of river tables
10:46 AM roycroft: he literally has a river running through the middle of his table
10:46 AM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsistC0dqjc
10:59 AM XXCoder: only critque I would offer is that I would simply paint inside with epoxy first
10:59 AM XXCoder: sealing most, if not all, ponental leaks
10:59 AM XXCoder: then do small pour, then larger ones
11:01 AM travis_farmer: the problem under sinks, i see most, is when plumbers bore holes on the cabinet floor, and never seal them afterward. always frustrating...
11:01 AM * travis_farmer has put frozen pizza into oven
11:11 AM roycroft: there's an ls130 on the festool recon site right now
11:12 AM roycroft: the most unique sander on the market
11:12 AM roycroft: festoolrecon.com
11:12 AM roycroft: any cabinet maker/finish carpenter should consider one
11:12 AM roycroft: stairmakers especially
11:13 AM XXCoder: interesting
11:30 AM roycroft: it is the only linear sander on the market
11:30 AM roycroft: other than automotive ones
11:32 AM roycroft: they have a custom profile blank for it as well which is really neat
11:33 AM roycroft: you can use it to match any existing profile, so if you have some odd-shaped molding that you need to sand it's easy to do it
11:41 AM roycroft: https://www.festoolusa.com/accessory/490780---ssh-stf-ls130-kit
11:41 AM roycroft: you stick the abrasive sheet on your existing profile
11:42 AM roycroft: rub the custom pad on the abrasive sheet until it matches the profile
11:42 AM roycroft: and then you can sand your profile with it
11:45 AM roycroft: and for the mdf -
11:45 AM roycroft: https://www.roseburg.com/medium-density-fiberboard-mdf/armorite/
11:45 AM roycroft: you can order samples which they will send for free
11:47 AM * travis_farmer has returned from lunch, fat and happy :)
11:50 AM roycroft: if you're curious, see the link i just posted above
11:50 AM travis_farmer: i bookmarked it, trying to spruce up my website at the moment
12:23 PM roycroft: if you don't need the water protection qualities, medite is another high quality mdf product that is formaldehyde free
12:24 PM roycroft: also made by roseburg forest products, but i think mediate has been licensed to other manufacturers as well
12:24 PM roycroft: roseburg forest products are local to me, but they have national distribution
01:03 PM travis_farmer: wondering if i could get a opinion on my new website front page... i used a customized website template, but it was free, so it is worth exactly what i paid for it. ;) https://www.tjfhome.net/ the "My Work" images are just placeholders for now.
01:52 PM travis_farmer: Hmmm, that good i guess...
02:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Looks fine to me. Not really a fan of the scrolling menu look but that seems to be the fad these days. Just my personal preference though. 🙂 Seems a bit slow to load.
02:23 PM travis_farmer853: thanks, but doesn't matter. when the lease runs out on my domain name, it is gone, permanently...
02:32 PM roycroft: you don't own your domain?
02:36 PM travis_farmer853: i do, for as long as i pay for it...
02:37 PM travis_farmer853: the server i own...
02:38 PM roycroft: so it's the hosting service you're talking about?
02:39 PM travis_farmer853: the domain name itself, the registration
02:39 PM travis_farmer853: the host server is in my bedroom, and currently shutdown...
02:41 PM roycroft: yeah, but you can renew a domain
02:41 PM roycroft: you don't have to lose it
02:41 PM roycroft: and you can host it anywhere
02:43 PM travis_farmer853: yeah, but i won't be doing so.
02:43 PM travis_farmer853: my parents got the latest electric bill, and the 3 servers are using more then my A/C.
02:43 PM travis_farmer853: and why bother host it at all?
02:45 PM roycroft: if you don't want the domain that's fine
02:45 PM roycroft: i somehow got the impression that you were going to lose it
02:46 PM travis_farmer853: can't afford, and can't host, are different than don't want.
02:46 PM travis_farmer853: but i have come to the realization that with nobody using it, there is no reason for the expense anyway.
02:47 PM travis_farmer853: i will just strip the drives out, and sell the server hardware for money
02:47 PM roycroft: if you let it lapse it will probably turn into a porn site
02:48 PM travis_farmer853: not my problam
02:48 PM roycroft: unless anyone in the universe associates it with you currently
02:48 PM roycroft: but i get not wanting to pay for domains that are not being used
02:48 PM roycroft: i've let dozens lapse
02:49 PM roycroft: but any domains that are associated with me or that i think i might want to use in the future i keep registered, and parked
02:50 PM travis_farmer853: well, that would cost money i no longer have...
02:50 PM roycroft: i also realise that as a domain registrar it costs me less to register a domain than it costs the average person, so it's easier to afford
02:55 PM travis_farmer853: on the plus side, i can use the big rackmount APC battery backup for my CNC computer 🙂
03:01 PM travis_farmer853: maybe i will at least save my FreePBX system from the liquidation sale, in the event my business actually takes off and i need a phone system...
03:08 PM JT-Shop: productive day here
03:08 PM travis_farmer: interesting, really, how one's mood can go from brilliantly happy... to this. all because of one thing that snowballs downward... but anyway, i won't keep posting the crap
03:22 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, should get that board back friday but dunno what the issue was yet
03:28 PM JT-Shop: my order will be here tomorrow... wonder what I'll get
03:28 PM Tom_L: 7i96?
03:33 PM JT-Shop: 7i96s for sure
03:34 PM Tom_L: do those have drivers on them or just io protection?
03:34 PM JT-Shop: not sure what your asking
03:35 PM Tom_L: are they an all in one board?
03:35 PM Tom_L: no daughter needed
03:35 PM JT-Shop: yes, it's similar to a 7i96 and yes you can have a daughter card as well
03:35 PM Tom_L: i haven't looked at them that closely
03:36 PM Tom_L: does the new mesaflash work with them?
03:37 PM Tom_L: ... those have the new fpga on them i think
03:37 PM JT-Shop: you must have mesaflash version => 3.4.3
03:37 PM Tom_L: yeah
03:37 PM Tom_L: pretty sure i do
03:37 PM JT-Shop: I don't on this pc lol just tried to look at the firmware with my tool lol
03:38 PM Tom_L: heh
03:49 PM JT-Shop: so you can have a 7i74 or 7i76 or 7i77 or 7i78 or 7i85 or 7i85s or 7i89 for a daughter card on a 7i96s
03:50 PM Tom_L: huh
04:05 PM JT-Shop: if you want a daughter card on the 7i96s you can in fact all of the all in one boards have at least one header for a daughter card
04:05 PM JT-Shop: iirc the 7i76e has two headers... let me look at my tool
04:06 PM JT-Shop: yep it has two expansion connectors
04:07 PM JT-Shop: and firmware for the 7i96s is .bin file
04:07 PM Tom_L: right
04:07 PM Tom_L: different brand fpga
04:07 PM JT-Shop: yup
04:07 PM Tom_L: but the plain 7i96 still use xilinx?
04:10 PM Tom_L: been with a company for probably 40 yrs and the merged with another. i got a quote on a print job and called to see if it was ready and the price had tripled
04:10 PM Tom_L: s/the/they
04:17 PM JT-Shop: damn
04:17 PM JT-Shop: yes when they can get a few
04:18 PM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Trigger-Rear-Shifter-2016/dp/B01FQ348L2
04:19 PM JT-Shop: talk about a screwed up product listing
04:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: price gouging is the new inflation
04:20 PM XXCoder: backpacked lol
04:27 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, order one and see what you get
04:28 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], they started making excuses so i just said either honor the price or keep them
04:28 PM Tom_L: which then they would just have to throw them out
04:29 PM JT-Shop: what did they do?
04:29 PM JT-Shop: I found one on flea bay for $14 with free shipping
04:29 PM Tom_L: it was a simple reorder of supplies i normally get and got a quote for them
04:30 PM Tom_L: first time i went to pick them up part of them was only 1/4 of the order
04:30 PM Tom_L: so they had to redo it and now they're trying to triple the price
04:31 PM Tom_L: service quality is nothing like the original company
04:31 PM Tom_L: but i guess that's the new norm
04:33 PM Tom_L: funny thing, i would have paid the price had it been quoted originally
04:38 PM JT-Shop: well that's the second time using my netspend CC... $2 to load it and $1 each time you use it but for small places it's worth the security
04:42 PM XXCoder: does that card do any other fees?
04:42 PM JT-Shop: I don't understand your question
04:42 PM JT-Shop: actually I see it's $1.50 per use
04:42 PM XXCoder: does netspend cc have fees besides from 2 usd to load and well 1.5 usd to use
04:44 PM JT-Shop: ah ok you have to buy the card and I think at walmart I paid $3 for the card then depending on where you go to load the card (add money) the fee can be as low as $2
04:44 PM JT-Shop: netspend has a map that shows all the places you can reload it and what they charge
04:46 PM XXCoder: interesting. thanks. good to know
04:46 PM JT-Shop: after having my business card hacked 7 times I don't use it for small companies that might use a 3rd party to handle the charge
04:49 PM JT-Shop: I printed a 10x10x10mm cube and the height is 9.87 should I adjust something on z?
04:55 PM captain_morgan: I'm trying to give qtdragon a try, got it homing and touching off but when I hit Cycle Start is just sits with State Reading
04:55 PM captain_morgan: gcode exported from freecad, worked fine with AXIS
04:56 PM roycroft: i have a card where i can generate virtual card numbers
04:56 PM roycroft: if i need to use it in a sketchy situation i can generate a virtual number for it, set a maximum charge limit, and use it for that vendor
04:56 PM roycroft: i can cancel the virtual card number right after the charge if i need to
04:56 PM JT-Shop: interesting
04:57 PM roycroft: that only works for online transactions, of course, but those are usually the sketchiest
04:57 PM JT-Shop: yup
04:57 PM roycroft: and i don't use it often
04:57 PM roycroft: just were i feel uneasy about typing in my card number
04:57 PM roycroft: where
04:57 PM roycroft: like on aliexpress
04:57 PM roycroft: i feel uneasy about everything having to do with that place
04:58 PM JT-Shop: I stopped ordering from aliexpress 5 years ago
04:58 PM roycroft: well so far, i've ordered from them twice and it's been a fail twice
04:58 PM XXCoder: aliexpress has paypal support now
04:58 PM roycroft: i have my third order in to them now
04:59 PM JT-Shop: I used to use a bank card that I only kept very little in that account
04:59 PM roycroft: and it's already annoying
04:59 PM XXCoder: out of all orders, only 2 failed for me. one was scam, and other one delivered wrong item and refunded
04:59 PM JT-Shop: I don't have a personal paypal account only my business one
04:59 PM roycroft: it's been two weeks and the product hasn't shipped yet, which i figured would be the case
04:59 PM roycroft: i'm assuming they ship when the container is full
04:59 PM roycroft: but they're already sending me nag messages every day to "accept" the order
05:00 PM roycroft: how can i "accept" it when it hasn't even shipped?
05:00 PM XXCoder: accept? as in what?
05:00 PM JT-Shop: to say you have received it I assume
05:00 PM roycroft: and my understanding of their terms is that when i "accept" an order i am confirming that it arrived safely and will be unable to file a dispute after accepting it
05:01 PM XXCoder: ah yeah thats weird
05:01 PM JT-Shop: and you better file a dispute before time runs out, don't let the seller ask for an extension that's how they got $600 from me
05:01 PM XXCoder: sounds scammy
05:01 PM roycroft: on the website i have two buttons available: confirm receipt and track order
05:02 PM roycroft: the confirm receipt button showed up when they sent the first nag message
05:02 PM roycroft: the track order button shows it as pending shipment
05:02 PM XXCoder: once a while its pending as I got item in hand
05:02 PM roycroft: jt-shop: when i placed the order i added a todo item 60 days later to deal with it
05:03 PM XXCoder: but yeah not very often. combined with trying to make you accept arrival, yeah sounds not great
05:03 PM roycroft: because their terms are that i can't file a dispute 65 days after placing the order
05:03 PM roycroft: anyway, work is done
05:03 PM roycroft: i can go install some drawer fronts now
05:04 PM roycroft: i wasn't able to do any at lunch today - i needed a watch repair and the shop said if i brought it in right away they would do it while i waited
05:04 PM roycroft: which they did
05:04 PM roycroft: and did not charge me or the repair
05:04 PM JT-Shop: that's what happened to me I forgot to deal with it
05:05 PM XXCoder: first order in june 2014
05:05 PM roycroft: a few years ago i started using a calendar app that can set recurring events, send reminders in a number of ways, and can sync to a cloud server
05:05 PM roycroft: i started using it religiously, because i am becoming forgetful
05:05 PM roycroft: and it's really helped keep me organized
05:06 PM roycroft: it's only 3pm, and i can hardly remember what i had for lunch today
05:07 PM XXCoder: 143 orders
05:07 PM roycroft: with the last order i made at aliexpress the product was defective
05:08 PM roycroft: the led light tree, as some of you might remember
05:08 PM roycroft: the seller immediately agreed to let me return it, but then started stalling to try to run out the 65 day clock
05:09 PM roycroft: at one point they told me i needed to have a "certified electrical laboratory" confirm that it did not work
05:09 PM XXCoder: geez
05:09 PM roycroft: i even sent them a video of me applying current to it and it not working and they told me that i probably did not know what i was doing
05:10 PM roycroft: i'll concede that part of this may be language issues
05:10 PM roycroft: they obviously spoke no english and were using a chinese to english translation service to communicate with me
05:10 PM roycroft: and i don't fault them for that
05:11 PM roycroft: but it was pretty clear that i knew how to apply 24 volts to the documented color-coded terminals, and that the lamp did not work when i applied the current
05:11 PM roycroft: i showed in the video using a fluke to verify the voltage
05:12 PM roycroft: i am convinced it was a stall tactic, because every time i would respond to them they would come back a couple days later with a different question/accusation
05:12 PM roycroft: i think my skepticism about aliexpress is not unwarranted
05:13 PM roycroft: but maybe this current order will work out
05:13 PM roycroft: the first order was in 2018, and it never arrived
05:13 PM XXCoder: yeah. yeah dont know why youre not having great luck
05:13 PM roycroft: it was never marked as having been delivered, but i still had to open a dispute to get my money back
05:13 PM XXCoder: less than 1% of my orders had issues
05:14 PM roycroft: maybe i'm just good at picking bad vendors
05:14 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: I have ordered hundreds of things from aliexpress and have never had a real issue that was not immediately refunded or resent.
05:14 PM roycroft: i try to keep my money as local as possible anyway
05:15 PM * roycroft is not big on international trade as a matter of course, and would prefer that more things were manufactured here in the usa
05:15 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: I buy most of my carbide insert tooling on aliexpress and have had good luck as long as I keep to the ones that don't seem too good to be true 🙂
05:16 PM XXCoder: what you mean 100 carbide inserts for $1 each wasnt good? ;)
05:17 PM XXCoder: anyway roy I sorta do agree, im fine with world trade, just not exploitive ones
05:17 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Lol. I tried some of those and yes they were inserts. What they were made of is anyone's guess but they did not last long at all. Pretty much immediately shattered.
05:17 PM XXCoder: might be thirds
05:17 PM XXCoder: seconds is still usable. those is from faiure that cant work bin lol
05:19 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Agreed, fair trade is fine. Just not when governments are distorting the market with subsidies or covering externalities (pollution, slave labor).
05:21 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: I find that if you pay about 50% of the cost of a name brand insert you get something that is decent. Are they as good as a real sandvik? No, but for hobby use they hold up just fine.
05:25 PM XXCoder: so much fun
05:25 PM XXCoder: out to make grass slightly shorter and almost killing myself
05:33 PM JT-Shop: pace yourself
05:33 PM * JT-Shop prefers to buy a couple of good inserts that last much longer than cheap inserts and in the long run are more cost effective
05:47 PM Tom_L: looks like thunderboomers moving in
05:48 PM JT-Shop: we got a bit of thunder but no rain
05:48 PM Tom_L: with good tooling you tend to want to take better care of it too
05:48 PM JT-Shop: exactly
05:48 PM Tom_L: not much yet, just alot of noise
05:48 PM JT-Shop: I have a box marked "not so sharp tools" and when I have to do something that might destroy the too I look in there first
05:51 PM Tom_L: keep em for dowel pins
05:55 PM * JT-Shop calls it a night
06:05 PM sliptonicBradCol: Curious is anyone is attending MRRF this weekend
06:22 PM roycroft: speaking of being forgetful
06:22 PM roycroft: i totally forgot to send you the link to credentials for my account jt
06:22 PM roycroft: i'll do that now
06:28 PM Tom_L: actually i might if you need it
07:06 PM XXCoder: JT-Shop: I did
07:06 PM XXCoder: 15 breaks mowing average sized yard
07:06 PM XXCoder: my brain and body is so tired
07:06 PM XXCoder: body from lack of exercise, brain from constant visual assult of moving around
07:07 PM XXCoder: its why I usually take 1.5 to 2 hours mowing it
07:08 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: would need grinder cutter to cut off broken bits off but yeah its great pretty precise rods
09:25 PM XXCoder: yay my circlip tool arrived
09:25 PM XXCoder: surpising good for low price. didnt expect any case
09:25 PM XXCoder: and my plastic lathe chuck is awesome now lol
09:26 PM CloudEvil: :)
09:26 PM XXCoder: bit tight and hard to open and close because of real clip, but still awesome lol
09:35 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, you get both inside and outside pliers?
09:35 PM XXCoder: yep. 2 sets of
09:36 PM XXCoder: 2 strights and 2 bent
09:36 PM Tom_L: 'snap ring' pliers
09:37 PM Tom_L: mine are old but you can move the screw so they act as both
09:37 PM Tom_L: 1 bent and 1 straight
09:39 PM XXCoder: nice
09:39 PM XXCoder: certainly more compact
09:40 PM Tom_L: i don't see them made anymore
09:41 PM Tom_L: https://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/MST7090F/070-CONVERTIBLE-FIXED-TIP-FLUORESCENT-SNAP-RING-PLIERS-90/
09:41 PM Tom_L: closest thing i can see to them
09:42 PM XXCoder: interesting. I guess demend was never enough?
09:45 PM Tom_L: dunno
09:52 PM roycroft: i have a nice set of snap ring pliers
09:52 PM roycroft: they are craftsman, and i've had them for ages
09:53 PM roycroft: there are two pliers - open and close - and a box with several sets of tips that can be mounted in them
09:53 PM Tom_L: i dunno what mine are, either craftsman or bluepoint maybe snapon
09:53 PM roycroft: possibly all made by the same company
09:53 PM roycroft: bluepoint and snapon are the same
09:54 PM Tom_L: i know
09:54 PM roycroft: and craftsman outsourced most of their tools
09:55 PM Tom_L: then a pair that open parallel with cups on the tip for just c rings
09:55 PM XXCoder: old craftsman
09:55 PM XXCoder: when they was good
09:56 PM Tom_L: https://shop.snapon.com/product/Snap-Ring-Pliers/Snap-Ring-Pliers-(Red)/SRPCR3800
09:56 PM Tom_L: haha
09:57 PM XXCoder: that one tool cost $10 more than my case of 4 tools lol
09:57 PM Tom_L: not when i bought them :)
09:57 PM roycroft: snapon is for people whose time is worth more than their money
09:57 PM roycroft: bluepoint is for people whose money is worth more than their time
09:58 PM Tom_L: i have a fair amount of snapon tools from a previous life
09:58 PM XXCoder: harbor fright is for tools you dont want to care about
09:58 PM roycroft: i have a few snapon tools, and a few bluepoint tools
09:58 PM Tom_L: but i made money with them
09:58 PM roycroft: quite a few craftsman tools - almost all my socket tools are craftsman
09:58 PM roycroft: some mac and proto
09:59 PM Tom_L: mac didn't frequent the shop i was at
09:59 PM roycroft: hf tools are actually getting better
09:59 PM XXCoder: i guess price is rising too
09:59 PM roycroft: but i primarily buy hand tools from hf when i know that 1. the job i'm doing to do will destroy any tool, and 2. the hf tool will likely not fail any worse than a quality tool for the job
10:00 PM * roycroft heads out to see if he can install 3 more drawer fronts before 9pm
10:01 PM Tom_L: i got an angle drill from HF i got to use exactly 1/2 time
10:01 PM Tom_L: the head gear stripped the first time i tried using it
10:02 PM XXCoder: geez. well motor might be usable for somehing else
10:02 PM Tom_L: i never bothered with it after that just tossed it
10:02 PM Tom_L: hardly worth the time to try and return it
10:03 PM XXCoder: nowdays gas prices means it might have cost more to try return it
11:21 PM roycroft: i am half done with my drawer fronts now
11:21 PM roycroft: 24 installed, 24 to go
11:21 PM XXCoder: whooo
11:22 PM roycroft: i have decided i've spent enough time on this project
11:22 PM roycroft: it's no longer interesting
11:22 PM roycroft: so now i just have to finish it so i can move on
11:23 PM roycroft: actually, the counter top is still interesting, because i'll be making it in a way that i've not done before
11:23 PM roycroft: but that won't happen until the rest of my drawer fronts are installed
11:23 PM XXCoder: lol well gonna finish it after all
11:24 PM roycroft: and hopefully mdf will come back down in price soon
11:24 PM roycroft: it's still $60.99
11:24 PM roycroft: er
11:24 PM roycroft: $60.88
11:24 PM roycroft: i want it to be $53
11:24 PM Contract_PilotRh: Hope i did not fumble it to bad 1st time at a town hall I will make public after 4k rendering. I hope next event audio will be better. https://youtu.be/F6pARwlKzdc
11:24 PM roycroft: actually, i want it to be $38, like it was two and a half hears ago
11:24 PM XXCoder: yeah
11:24 PM roycroft: but i'd be ok if it was $53
11:36 PM Contract_PilotRh: 7\