#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 15 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:55 AM Deejay: moin
03:09 AM travis_farmer853: G'Morning all! ☕
04:50 AM Tom_L: morning
05:02 AM JT-Cave: morning
07:13 AM pere: <URL: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=SfmrdumZngM > might interest some of you. :)
09:13 AM Loetmichel_: *giggle* Thats starting to be a running gag here. $me just now: "OUCH! Is it wednesday already?" CoWorker: "Let me guess: You burned yourself on the soldering iron?" $me: "Yep!" Co:"Told you so. its always the wednesdays!"
09:15 AM * ZincBoy[CAON]066 uploaded an image: (58KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/IGOqqiANQgixaxluejbyatpx/unknown.png >
09:31 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:35 AM Loetmichel_ is now known as Loetmichel
10:13 AM * JT-Shop wonders where he put the string for the weed wacker???
10:16 AM nemesis6646: \part
10:17 AM nemesis6646: \leave
11:03 AM * JT-Shop wonders what part of the E-Bike just got delivered
11:03 AM roycroft: you know what part got delivered - the part that has to be installed last
11:07 AM JT-Shop: yep it's the battery
11:09 AM JT-Shop: which is ok as it needs charging
12:02 PM sinned6915: i am stuck trying to install 2.8.2
12:02 PM sinned6915: i put it on a USB via rufus
12:03 PM sinned6915: and the installer is stuck on mounting the CD drive
12:04 PM sinned6915: is there a workaround to install by USB only?
12:08 PM roycroft: there is a live cd distro that installs from a thumb drive
12:28 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: I usually use etcher to create the bootable usb drives. Usually if there is an issue it is a bad USB drive. I have had quite a few cheap drives that couldn't be used to install from.
12:29 PM sinned6915: its not the USB drive, it boots fine
12:29 PM sinned6915: I then get choices to run the liveCd version, run the text based installer or Grpahical installer
12:30 PM sinned6915: but during the install, it insists on mounting the CDrom drive for srouce
12:30 PM sinned6915: this is what i downloaded
12:30 PM sinned6915: https://lounge.mikkel.cc/uploads/02fff8819635c0ca/image.png
12:32 PM Tom_L: can you download a .deb and install that way?
12:32 PM sinned6915: i can.
12:33 PM Tom_L: set a source in your package manager and try this
12:33 PM Tom_L: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
12:33 PM sinned6915: oh, no.
12:33 PM Tom_L: pick your flavor
12:33 PM sinned6915: this is the linux installer that is puking
12:33 PM Tom_L: do you have a preempt-rt kernel installed?
12:33 PM Tom_L: ok
12:34 PM sinned6915: i am installing to a fresh hard drive
12:34 PM Tom_L: you can install debian buster and add a kernel then install linuxcnc
12:34 PM Tom_L: that's what i did
12:34 PM sinned6915: i have not even gotten to partitiioning the drive
12:34 PM Tom_L: if you can give me 20 min i can help you thru it
12:34 PM sinned6915: the linux installer is insisting to mount and use the CD
12:34 PM sinned6915: I will burn a DVD and try again
12:34 PM Tom_L: it's a few more steps but it works
12:35 PM Tom_L: the dvd should work
12:35 PM sinned6915: right
12:35 PM Tom_L: you will be stuck with xcfe or whatever that desktop is called..
12:36 PM Tom_L: won't make a difference to linuxcnc, i just prefer mate
12:36 PM sinned6915: i am looking a tthis
12:36 PM sinned6915: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_alternate_install_methods
12:36 PM Tom_L: that should get you there
12:36 PM Tom_L: but
12:36 PM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/index.html
12:36 PM Tom_L: is good
12:37 PM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/
12:37 PM Tom_L: bak in a while
12:37 PM sinned6915: ok, so instead of using the 2.8.2 cd, install generic debian buster
12:37 PM sinned6915: and then add the packages?
12:37 PM Tom_L: that's how i did it
12:38 PM Tom_L: but you have to install a preempt-rt when you do it that way
12:38 PM Tom_L: it's really easy
12:38 PM Tom_L: bye
12:38 PM sinned6915: thanks
12:39 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: It is worth while to try a different USB stick. I have encountered strange behavior with flaky sticks. They will boot but not install.
12:45 PM sinned6915: ok
12:45 PM sinned6915: good idea
12:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I left a flash drive plugged into a win11 system and it deleted a file off the flash drive without asking, win11 claimed it was a malware file
12:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: surprise, so it looks like don't plug in a flash drive and turn your back on it
12:54 PM Tom_L: i've had that happen too
12:57 PM roycroft: bill knows better than you abut such things
12:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: any drive I plug in gets backed up elsewhere first
01:18 PM sliptonicBradCol: Trying to rebuild from tip of master branch on stretch. configure completes normally and says that it finds yapps. But make is failing with error that there's no module 'yapps'
01:19 PM Tom_L: master is sometimes broken
01:19 PM Tom_L: if you want reliability install 2.8.2
01:19 PM sliptonicBradCol: Nope. Need 2.9
01:19 PM Tom_L: bleeding edge kinda guy ehh
01:20 PM sliptonicBradCol: Need the trt kinematics to work on FreeCAD Path features
01:20 PM Tom_L: sometimes packages aren't available yet
01:21 PM Tom_L: like one or two for the graphical gui
01:21 PM Tom_L: i forget the lib name
01:21 PM sliptonicBradCol: Is 2.9 build not possible on stretch? Just looking for confirmation here.
01:22 PM Tom_L: i honestly don't know. it should build on stretch
01:22 PM Tom_L: but i doubt anything prior to that
01:22 PM Tom_L: try installing python-yapps
01:23 PM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/rpi4-emc.html
01:23 PM Tom_L: there's a list of dependencies for buster you may want to look over for a possible help
01:23 PM Tom_L: about halfway down
01:24 PM Tom_L: you may have to update to buster for 2.9... i'm not exactly sure on that
01:25 PM roycroft: i'm not sure why anyone would want to try to build the development version of linuxcnc on a very old version of debian, which will be completely unsupported in 2 weeks
01:25 PM Tom_L: stretch isn't _that_ old
01:25 PM roycroft: i get running what works
01:25 PM Tom_L: i'm still runnign wheezy :)
01:25 PM roycroft: long term support ends on 30 june for stretch
01:26 PM roycroft: but again, i get running what works
01:26 PM Tom_L: so i'm sol with wheezy for sure :)
01:26 PM roycroft: running 2.8 on wheezy is fine if you have it working
01:26 PM Tom_L: yeah
01:26 PM sliptonicBradCol: I will upgrade to bullseye if necessary. Was just hoping to avoid that if possible since touchscreen and other things are already working here
01:26 PM roycroft: but if you need to upgrade you should upgrade on a modern, supported os
01:27 PM roycroft: i would build buster or bullseye in a virtual machine and test that way before nuking a production install
01:27 PM Tom_L: if you did i'd do it on a spare ssd and keep what you got until the newer one is working
01:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sliptonic (Brad Collette)#2339: LCNC 2.9 is all Python3
01:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: <2.9 it still relied on Python2
01:27 PM Tom_L: gtksourceview2 was one of the missing dependencies
01:27 PM sliptonicBradCol: Well that explains it
01:28 PM Tom_L: it affects gmocappy and the other gui
01:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC got years behind on Python
01:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: finally caught up
01:29 PM roycroft: even if i were developing third-party software and wanted to test on as many platforms as are commonly used, i'd tell people at this point "no more stretch - the os will be unsupported in 2 weeks, and we're not going to port/test against an unsupported os"
01:29 PM roycroft: buster, bullseye, sure, and maybe work on bookworm, knowing that it's a rapidly-moving target and what you build today may break tomorrow
01:30 PM roycroft: that is always the case with a bookworm release
01:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just use Sid, help fix stuff, stop whining
01:32 PM roycroft: sid is always broken :)
01:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: for a trivkins mill using the Axis GUI I started using Sid without issue maybe 5 years ago
01:33 PM roycroft: you got lucky that minute
01:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: even Sid is often 4-5 version behind the new bug fixed code
01:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ever try to get a brand spanking new GPU card working with Debian and without Sid?
02:09 PM andypugh_ is now known as andypugh
02:27 PM sliptonicBradCol: Interesting video. But c'mon. Not a single mention of the FreeCAD Path CAM solution?
02:28 PM tcurdt: I just generated my first config and are greeted with 1) .hal 2) .ini 3) .var 4) .tbl
02:28 PM tcurdt: Not sure what the .tbl and .var are for.
02:28 PM tcurdt: It looks like the hal references variables from the ini - but actually many more than I think make sense. I would have less in the ini and more in the hal. What's the best practise there?
02:32 PM tcurdt: are the ini sections free to define? or are some required/predefined?
02:33 PM tcurdt: does the order in the hal matter?
02:38 PM FranseFrikandel1: .tbl stores your tooltable, .var stores machine variables, among other things G54/G55 etc.
02:41 PM tcurdt: FranseFrikandel1 thx!
02:41 PM tcurdt: any advice on the hal vs ini balance?
02:42 PM FranseFrikandel1: What did you use to generate it initially? I only have a single machine I ever set up so mostly went with what PnCConf generated for me tbh.
02:43 PM Tom_L: tcurdt, .tbl is your tool table
02:43 PM Tom_L: .var is for things like work offsets etc
02:44 PM Tom_L: tcurdt, you can define ini sections and reference them but there are also predefined ones
02:44 PM Tom_L: woops.. FranseFrikandel1 beat me to it :)
02:44 PM tcurdt: ok ... the predefined ini section part is important
02:44 PM Tom_L: are you using mesa cards?
02:45 PM tcurdt: Tom_L yes, a 7i92
02:45 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop has written a nice config utility for a basic config file set
02:45 PM Tom_L: unless you've already done one
02:45 PM tcurdt: That's the one I used to generate the config :)
02:46 PM Tom_L: see there are 2. pncconf and mesact
02:46 PM Tom_L: https://www.gnipsel.com/mesa/mesact/index.html
02:46 PM tcurdt: maybe worth to also generate with pncconf and then compare
02:46 PM tcurdt: Tom_L that's the one I used
02:47 PM Tom_L: thing about pncconf, once you generate it you can't reopen it witout starting again
02:47 PM enleth: finally, I have a plan for dealing with people who forget to close argon and CO2 bottle valves after welding - the welding cart gets its own electrical disconnect, the pressure regulators get a T junction at the output, the T side gets a normally *open* solenoid valve, an orifice and an air horn
02:47 PM Tom_L: jt's is reentrant
02:47 PM Tom_L: enleth, :)
02:47 PM Tom_L: hope it's deafening
02:48 PM Tom_L: tcurdt, jt's is a work in progress
02:48 PM tcurdt: I know ... opened two bugs report yesterday ... but he was fast to fix :)
02:49 PM Tom_L: generally overnite :)
02:50 PM Tom_L: they both will give you a basic template but eventually you will have to manually edit and then you're on your own
02:50 PM Tom_L: that's actually where the fun begins
02:50 PM FranseFrikandel1: PNCconf is not flawless either, at least the time I generated a config file with it it wasen't. Didn't connect the spindle feedback pins properly.
02:51 PM tcurdt: Tom_L that's where I am at now :)
02:51 PM tcurdt: and I got questions! :)
02:51 PM FranseFrikandel1: That bug has been fixed, to be clear
02:51 PM Tom_L: and you can usually get an answer here
02:51 PM Tom_L: FranseFrikandel1, which bug?
02:51 PM Tom_L: ahh nevermind
02:52 PM tcurdt: Tom_L do you have any input of the ini vs hal question?
02:52 PM tcurdt: I think I would rather have a very light ini
02:53 PM Tom_L: yes
02:53 PM tcurdt: and move the things that don't really change into the hal
02:53 PM tcurdt: IMO the ini is so big and the hal has so many references
02:53 PM tcurdt: feels wrong (to me)
02:53 PM tcurdt: but I am a newbie ... so before and "clean it up"
02:54 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Split your hal file up into separate functions
02:54 PM Tom_L: feel free to look at mine if you want: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/NEW_MILL_SHOP_2.8.2/
02:54 PM Tom_L: stepper based
02:54 PM tcurdt: thx!
02:54 PM Tom_L: and i have 2 configurations in there
02:54 PM Tom_L: one for an A axis and one without
02:55 PM Tom_L: anything _A is the A axis
02:55 PM Tom_L: and are practically identical otherwise
02:55 PM Tom_L: all your stuff like loadrt should go in hal
02:55 PM c101horse8332[m]: Guys, what were the max numbers youd want when doing the latency test? Im running a mesa card if that makes a difference
02:55 PM Tom_L: setp etc
02:56 PM tcurdt: Tom_L but what's the point of "loadrt [HOSTMOT2](DRIVER) ioaddr=[HOSTMOT2](IO_ADDR) config=[HOSTMOT2](CONFIG)" e.g.
02:56 PM tcurdt: why not move that straight into the hal
02:56 PM c101horse8332[m]: Oh and how do you get the gears again for the stress testing
02:56 PM tcurdt: why the ini references?
02:56 PM Tom_L: that's just where i put it
02:56 PM FranseFrikandel1: Terminal and type glxgears?
02:56 PM c101horse8332[m]: That was it
02:56 PM Tom_L: makes it easier for me to change if i need to
02:57 PM tcurdt: does the order in a hal file matter?
02:57 PM Tom_L: yes
02:57 PM Tom_L: first get loaded first
02:57 PM Tom_L: afk
02:58 PM tcurdt: alright ... that gave some important background infos ... will play a bit and then come back :)
02:58 PM tcurdt: thx folks!
02:59 PM tcurdt: I'll be back ;)
02:59 PM FranseFrikandel1: mesa makes it a lot less sensitive for latency. Docs say no more than 1ms if not software stepping. But that already seems incredibly high to me: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/install/latency-test.html
03:00 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: I think the max for Mesa and a 1ms servo period is around 300us.
03:00 PM * c101horse8332[m] uploaded an image: (3611KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/EbswIAHJdSQUXkYrNyXmWMeh/20220615_215959.jpg >
03:00 PM c101horse8332[m]: This is pmuch right after starting the test
03:01 PM c101horse8332[m]: Waar high right?
03:01 PM c101horse8332[m]: * Waay high right?
03:03 PM FranseFrikandel1: I don't know how much increasing the servo period would affect things, have never had to do it. I imagine if you're not going too fast it's not too terrible but other people here probably know better.
03:03 PM FranseFrikandel1: It's indeed already over the 300us ZincBoy[CA, ON] (@_discord_554508768402997249:jauriarts.org) mentioned.
03:05 PM tcurdt: pid num_chan=4 ... why 4 channel? ... 1 channel per joint?
03:05 PM c101horse8332[m]: aight then, neither of these little pc's i got will be replacing the big one im running now then
03:06 PM FranseFrikandel1: Sounds right. Or 3 joints and a spindle with feedback.
03:08 PM tcurdt: what is the difference between [SECTION]VALUE and [SECTION](VALUE) .. I've seen both
03:08 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure
03:08 PM tcurdt: maybe quoting?
03:09 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Have you looked at: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/config/ini-config.html
03:09 PM tcurdt: ZincBoy[CAON]066 I should have ... thx!
04:00 PM JT-Shop: tcurdt, what was all those screen shots for?
04:00 PM tcurdt: JT-Shop just wanted to give context what values I entered
04:01 PM JT-Shop: overloaded my connection lol
04:02 PM XXCoder: nice dynimatic picture of screen lol
04:03 PM JT-Shop: got the rack and kickstand mounted on the E-Bike
04:03 PM XXCoder: lol this is bit cool https://learn.adafruit.com/cnc-wooden-building-bricks
04:04 PM JT-Shop: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/calling-any-one-from-missouri.73271/page-1560#post-25848753
04:05 PM XXCoder: published on june 15 2022, cnc is not longer in sale :P
04:05 PM XXCoder: jt interestinbg
04:06 PM JT-Shop: I need to post the rest of the photos
04:06 PM JT-Shop: rear wheel/motor and controller is due to arrive tomorrow
04:09 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/vehicles/e-bike/
04:12 PM XXCoder: nice indeed
04:14 PM tcurdt: JT-Shop what linuxcnc version does mesact generate for? it seems like stable has some different ini keys
04:14 PM tcurdt: or a bug?
04:15 PM JT-Shop: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/config/ini-config.html#sub:custom-variables
04:16 PM JT-Shop: only certain sections and variables are used by LinuxCNC the rest can be called anything as long as you use the same section and variable in the hal file
04:17 PM tcurdt: right ... but rs274ngc is not a custom section ... I thought
04:19 PM JT-Shop: no it's not a custom section
04:20 PM JT-Shop: any stepgen variable is use only in hal
04:21 PM * JT-Shop goes to make some chicken crack
04:26 PM Tom_L: jt is that a steel bike frame?
04:29 PM roycroft: well this is convenient
04:30 PM roycroft: i am almost finishing printing some orange hardware boxes, at which point my printer was going to be idle for a while, as i need more filament to print the grey boxes that are coming up next
04:30 PM roycroft: but just a moment ago ups showed up with 10 spools of grey filament
04:30 PM XXCoder: atomic ones?
04:31 PM tcurdt: JT-Shop the [OUTPUTS] and [INPUTS] section is just for the config tool ... otherwise not needed? ... not sure I understand the comment right
04:31 PM XXCoder: or was that gst3d order, not 30 days one?
04:31 PM travis_farmer853: and here the printer thought it would get a break 😉
04:31 PM JT-Shop: tcurdt, to answer your question about what version, that depends on the board
04:31 PM XXCoder: lol
04:31 PM JT-Shop: tcurdt, correct anything below normal is only to reload back into the tool
04:32 PM tcurdt: so [OPTIONS] is also config tool specific?
04:32 PM JT-Shop: been thinking of having .config file maybe and store that data in there
04:32 PM JT-Shop: correct
04:32 PM tcurdt: ok .. now the comment makes total sense :)
04:33 PM JT-Shop: how would the comment be more understandable?
04:33 PM roycroft: it was the regular gst3d order, not the 30 days out one
04:33 PM XXCoder: yea ok
04:34 PM tcurdt: JT-Shop I wasn't sure if it was just meant for the next section or all following
04:35 PM tcurdt: you could have a comment in every section config tool specific section
04:35 PM tcurdt: so it wouldn't depend on the order either
04:35 PM JT-Shop: that's a good idea, I'll fix that in the morning
04:37 PM roycroft: so i'll be printing in grey in a few minutes
04:37 PM roycroft: and for the next few weeks
04:38 PM travis_farmer853: why not do some boxes in "glow in the dark" filament? 😉 could make it easier to see in them in he dark 😉
04:39 PM roycroft: when i use fasteners i have a tool in hand
04:40 PM roycroft: i do not thing it is prudent to be using tools in the dark
04:40 PM travis_farmer853: 😉 was a joke, anyway 😉
04:40 PM XXCoder: not very safe that, and glow in dark eats extruder and nozzle
04:40 PM roycroft: the color coding is to identify the type of fastener, btw
04:40 PM XXCoder: my 3d printer nozzle will outlive the printer, its made from tungsein carbide
04:41 PM roycroft: orange is for brass, blue for stainless steel, grey for zinc-plated steel, et.
04:41 PM roycroft: etc., rather
04:41 PM roycroft: this is why i like mcmaster-carr
04:41 PM roycroft: i just received an order from them - it was some screws
04:41 PM travis_farmer853: it eats the extruder and nozzle??? what is in that stuff?
04:41 PM roycroft: they were packed poorly, and most of them were missing
04:42 PM roycroft: so i emailed them asking if they would send replacements
04:42 PM XXCoder: glow in dark have extremely abrustive crystals in it
04:42 PM roycroft: less than five minutes later they 1. issued a credit for the entire order, and 2. sent shipping confirmation for the replacements
04:42 PM XXCoder: but even if you never use abrustive filaments, brass evenually wears out.
04:42 PM travis_farmer853: ahh, ok. i will take it off my eBay wish list then...
04:42 PM roycroft: which is how they have always done it
04:42 PM XXCoder: my tc one never will
04:43 PM travis_farmer853: Hmm, another good tip (tc nozzles) 🙂
04:43 PM XXCoder: dont buy "tungsein alloy" thats just steel
04:43 PM roycroft: tc nozzles are good if you are using abrasive filament
04:43 PM roycroft: i don't use abrasive filament, and the brass nozzles i've been using have worked out fine so far
04:43 PM XXCoder: roy or anytime really, since its heat properies is very similiar with brass. only difference is that tc does not expand as much as brass does.
04:44 PM roycroft: i'm using a volcano hot end now
04:44 PM XXCoder: so you'd need to tighten it bit more, or usecoated copper block
04:44 PM roycroft: the nozzle is very long
04:44 PM roycroft: a tc nozzle would be expensive for that
04:45 PM XXCoder: https://www.3dmakerengineering.com/products/tungsten-carbide-3d-printer-nozzle?variant=31398587695159
04:45 PM tcurdt: what's the difference between STEPGEN_SCALE and SCALE in the JOINT sections?
04:46 PM roycroft: i'm also using a 0.8mm nozzle
04:47 PM roycroft: that site's volcano nozzles only go up to 0.6mm
04:47 PM roycroft: and they are $50
04:47 PM roycroft: i'll stick with my $6 nozzles for now :)
04:47 PM XXCoder: yeah. mine cost me 45 usd lol
04:47 PM XXCoder: just remember yours will evenually wear
04:47 PM XXCoder: even with zero abustive filament
04:49 PM roycroft: yes, but i can buy 8 brass nozzles for the cost of one tc nozzle
04:49 PM XXCoder: yep
04:49 PM XXCoder: really depends on user case as always
04:50 PM roguish[m]: hey, how are the Creality printers?
04:50 PM XXCoder: dunno, I use prusa mk3s
04:51 PM roycroft: i have a creality ender 5, and i'm happy with mine
04:51 PM roycroft: i was printing a couple hours after the box arrived
04:52 PM roycroft: it has undergone a number of upgrades, but that's the case with most, if not all entry level printers
04:52 PM XXCoder: lol https://youtu.be/SkDARaS3NOk have a brilliant section of adding circlip groove to rod. using 3d printed holder and guide
04:52 PM roycroft: i had no 3d printing experience before i bought mine, and i wanted something that was pretty turn-key to start with, but could be upgraded as needed
04:53 PM roycroft: and the ender 5 fit the bill nicely
04:53 PM XXCoder: heard 5 is ok. some enders is just horrible
04:53 PM * JT-Shop needs to get his ender working again
04:53 PM roguish[m]: is it a standard size, or a big one 5 Plus ?
04:53 PM roycroft: i can only speak about what i have
04:53 PM roycroft: mine is the regular ender 5
04:53 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, what hot end did you get?
04:53 PM roycroft: i would like a larger build plate footprint, but i'm happy with what i have for now
04:54 PM roycroft: i got a volcano hot end - one moment and i'll find a link to it
04:54 PM roguish[m]: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144604676753?epid=27032821453&hash=item21ab1c4291:g:BJYAAOSwW6licr8b&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4GCqrlSbgB8Y0vPNpnvDbih5cnjIlIR2teNjgHaKA7sAw3bEpzXJ%2BIii5vid%2FXaVpSKi89Q%2BDwptnJ0fefnStjgbioc6W4fnaH6K1aKR7TxfwIFdpYaQ16nm%2BO5o3SQ7idGS8fD2i8N4fhMj%2B7Pjb6Wc31R1ptv9ccRB67rMYWNYPn6TMXPy2yXU%2BUOMH1V8%2F%2BDk%2F6XWtcopO%2FIIPgIhjQdbngePaVv2N43PtxXdGtcOCImGWKrSBgYWTrH%2BllD3DKt5g48E5j1GBETG57%2B5jMZoK8lWMTtj%2BzDsGR9U7NzI%7Ct
04:54 PM roguish[m]: kp%3ABFBMjsnTla1g
04:54 PM XXCoder: roy for larger, theres bunch of options, like voron, or hypercube
04:54 PM XXCoder: less messy yrl for rogish https://www.ebay.com/itm/144604676753?epid=27032821453
04:55 PM JT-Shop: roguish[m], drop everything after the ? in a link
04:55 PM roguish[m]: don't know what happed there. sorry.
04:56 PM roguish[m]: or this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/144604793555?
04:56 PM tcurdt: JT-Shop what's the difference between STEPGEN_SCALE and SCALE in the JOINT sections? and is there some documentation on the hm2_7i92 component/module (or whatever it is called)
04:57 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: have modified yours at all?
04:57 PM roguish[m]: if so, what?
04:58 PM * tcurdt got an Ender and a Prusa (Bear mod) and thinks that for just PLA an Ender is just fine
04:58 PM roycroft: https://www.filastruder.com/products/e3d-volcano?variant=1242711912
04:58 PM roguish[m]: so, just the hot end?
04:59 PM roycroft: i added a tempered glass build plate, a new hot end so i could squirt faster, and i just upgraded the extruder, as the plastic one that came with it wore out
04:59 PM roycroft: oh, i also replaced the bowden tube
04:59 PM roguish[m]: i've watched a few youtubes on mods, seems quite extensive if ya really want
04:59 PM roycroft: the hot end was just because i wanted to print as fast as possible for this project i'm working on
04:59 PM roycroft: the stock one works fine
04:59 PM roycroft: but i'm using a 0.8mm nozzle now
05:00 PM roguish[m]: what is the extruder?
05:00 PM roycroft: the extruder is the thing that pushes the filament from the spool to the hot end
05:00 PM roguish[m]: ah, ok.
05:00 PM roycroft: if you buy one, buy the aluminium extruder on day one
05:00 PM roycroft: it's $10
05:01 PM XXCoder: yeah his went oval lol
05:01 PM roycroft: the tempered glass build plate is nice, but i don't think it's essential
05:01 PM XXCoder: it was funny
05:01 PM XXCoder: sorry roy lol
05:01 PM roycroft: replace the stock bowden tube with a capricorn (brand name) tube on day one as well
05:02 PM roycroft: that's another $12, including a cutter that will ensure you cut the ends square
05:02 PM roycroft: those two upgrades are all i think are needed right away
05:02 PM JT-Shop: tcurdt, I don't see STEPGEN_SCALE in the joint section
05:02 PM roycroft: anything else, you do as you start using the printer and determining what you want to do with it
05:02 PM roycroft: and maybe you do no other upgrades ever
05:03 PM roguish[m]: nice, thanks. i'm shopping
05:03 PM JT-Shop: which extruder are you using
05:03 PM roycroft: the red one :)
05:03 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B96QMN2/
05:04 PM roycroft: it takes 10 minutes at most to install
05:04 PM tcurdt: JT-Shop found it the docs and got confused ... but it's a custom var
05:04 PM JT-Shop: yup
05:05 PM tcurdt: the hal/ini custom/non-custom duality is a bit crazy TBH
05:06 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GM6W972
05:06 PM roycroft: that's the bowden tube
05:06 PM roycroft: and now it is time to install some drawers
05:06 PM tcurdt: JT-Shop the dir/step inverted don't seem to be used in the hal?
05:07 PM roycroft: after this i'll be down to single-digits - eight left to go
05:07 PM coder_kalyan_ is now known as coder_kalyan
05:08 PM cpresser1 is now known as cpresser
05:09 PM JT-Shop: tcurdt, I'll check that in the morning but it seems to not be used as it should
05:10 PM tcurdt: thx!
05:12 PM tcurdt: why is there a MIN/MAX_LIMIT on both the joints AND the axis?
05:13 PM JT-Shop: they have to match
05:13 PM JT-Shop: you may have more than one joint per axis and they must all match
05:15 PM tcurdt: why aren't they just on the joints then?
05:16 PM tcurdt: or just fall back to the values of the axis
05:16 PM JT-Shop: you would have to ask Dewey that question
05:17 PM tcurdt: JT-Shop that's a dev?
05:17 PM JT-Shop: yup
05:17 PM JT-Shop: he was the author of joints/axes
05:27 PM tcurdt: the PID settings on the joints are not relevant for servos if the loop is closed outside of linuxcnc ... right?
05:29 PM XXCoder: joint/axis makes sense to me, since sometimes joints and axis dont have direct colleration
05:29 PM XXCoder: ie on robot arm
05:29 PM XXCoder: theres good vismach examples of robot arm
05:37 PM JT-Shop: the 48v 20Ah battery weighs 14.5 pounds
05:39 PM JT-Shop: I think I'll move the ender up here after cleaning off the table where the old one sits with lots of crap
05:40 PM JT-Shop: so the battery took 5-6 hours to charge from empty but I was not keeping an eye on it too close
05:45 PM XXCoder: a while, but whats bicycle range anyway
05:45 PM XXCoder: if I wasnt too dizzy to ride a bicycle, id vbe all over it
05:47 PM JT-Shop: depends on how much you assist and the terrain but 20 miles with a 20Ah battery is pretty safe
05:47 PM JT-Shop: once the battery can take a full charge
05:47 PM XXCoder: interesting
05:48 PM XXCoder: i guess no regenerating brake
05:48 PM JT-Shop: no
05:48 PM XXCoder: would be fanastic for on way down, to supply for upwards
05:48 PM JT-Shop: in hilly country that might be a plus
05:48 PM JT-Shop: there's a giant truck that runs on battery and never needs recharging
05:49 PM JT-Shop: it uses battery to climb up the mountain to get filled with ore and uses regenerative to recharge and brake on the way down
05:49 PM XXCoder: interesting
05:50 PM XXCoder: its that basis that some placs is building "batteries".
05:50 PM Loetmichel: XXCoder: the regenerative braking of Bike sized brushless motors is not THAT effective. may be 80% of the invested energy comes back
05:50 PM Loetmichel: so that "never recharging" will not happen unless you pedal quite a bit
05:50 PM XXCoder: theres one place building train track up hill, it pulls weight up on excess, and lets down for power
05:50 PM XXCoder: loet yeah that'd be still fine :D
05:50 PM XXCoder: I mean, 80% back?
05:51 PM Loetmichel: at best, yes
05:51 PM JT-Shop: the Honda Insight uses regenerative braking to charge the battery and is quite effective
05:52 PM XXCoder: yeah, 80% at best vs zero?
05:53 PM Loetmichel: JT-Shop: a car is better at it i assume because the electric motor is bigger and can be made more effective as an generator
05:54 PM Loetmichel: the bike motors are simply too small to be 95+% effective
05:55 PM JT-Shop: yep it's like 20 HP motor
05:55 PM JT-Shop: IIRC
05:56 PM JT-Shop: https://electrek.co/2018/06/08/e-bikes-are-efficient-but-nothing-beats-this-400-mile-range-electric-recumbent-trike/
05:56 PM JT-Shop: this is interesting
05:57 PM XXCoder: i tried riding one of those, meh
05:57 PM XXCoder: not battery one
05:58 PM JT-Shop: I'd like to build a similar one
05:58 PM JT-Shop: or a electric motorcycle
05:59 PM JT-Shop: https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/models/urban_mobility/ce04.html
05:59 PM JT-Shop: kinda ugly lol
05:59 PM tcurdt: from the docs it does not sound like the PID settings are not required ... but it seems most configs have them ... even non-servo configs
06:00 PM XXCoder: yeah its more expensive than my car blue book so meh
06:00 PM JT-Shop: electric vehicles are super expensive
06:00 PM tcurdt: is that a PID for the loop between the stepgen and linuxcnc?
06:00 PM JT-Shop: yep
06:07 PM JT-Shop: CDB is done time to retire for the night
06:07 PM JT-Shop: that's Charlie Daniels Band
06:11 PM tcurdt: check_config validation failed ... can't read "section": no such variable
06:11 PM tcurdt: that error message isn't particular helpful
06:11 PM tcurdt: is that an error with the hal or the ini?
06:11 PM XXCoder: wild guess, its missing a section:
06:11 PM tcurdt: is there no way to get a proper error message?
06:27 PM tcurdt: man, this is frustrating ... the tcl parse_ini seems to fail ... with no further indication ... but other ini file readers are just fine
06:27 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: While you can remove the PID between the stepgen and motion block it is not recommended. I accidently did that a while ago and wondered why the motion did not go to the commanded position. Do not remove the PID block unless you really understand how things work under the hood.
06:27 PM tcurdt: ZincBoy[CAON]066 thanks for clarifying that!
06:30 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: This is to deal with non trivial kinematics. There may be multiple joints involved in one axis moving. Think SCARA system or the like. You need to have separate limits for the joints and axis as they may have little relation to each other.
06:30 PM tcurdt: oh boy ... found the problem ... didn't like a comment on a section line
06:31 PM XXCoder: nice you found why
06:31 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Yes, that is called out in the INI doc. Comments can't be on the same line as a command/value
06:32 PM tcurdt: didn't see that
06:37 PM tcurdt: ZincBoy[CAON]066 hm .. so the axis could have an overall limit of the various joints? ... I still cannot visualize it - but it sounds like that could make sense :)
06:40 PM tcurdt: yay! at least it starts now :-D
06:42 PM roycroft: well, i'm down to single digits - 8 drawers left to install, and all the drawer parts are either finished or ready for finish
06:42 PM XXCoder: awesome tcurdt
06:42 PM XXCoder: roy nice
06:42 PM roycroft: a couple weeks ago my bench was completely covered in drawer parts
06:42 PM roycroft: today there is one stack left - the parts for the systainer trays
06:43 PM * roycroft is feeling good about this
06:44 PM roycroft: and now it's time for a couple errands, and then to meet some friends for dinner
06:59 PM tcurdt: I've open a halrun shell ... loaded the hm2_eth ... and with halcmd show I can see the pins
07:00 PM tcurdt: how can I set pins to hi/lo or read them?
07:00 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: setp/sets
07:01 PM tcurdt: ah ... and getp I can read a pin?
07:02 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: halshow should let you look at all of the signals
07:03 PM tcurdt: ah! I guess that's the "Value"
07:05 PM sinned6915: +Tom_L: i have base Debian 10 installed.
07:06 PM sinned6915: I am a little stuck no
07:06 PM sinned6915: trying to follow the directions, I could use some clarification
07:06 PM sinned6915: if you got time, I would appreciate the help
07:11 PM tcurdt: ZincBoy[CAON]066 I was reading through a tutorial but I still don't see how I switch a pin to an output though
07:11 PM tcurdt: setp hm2_7i92.0.gpio.000.out 0
07:11 PM tcurdt: setp hm2_7i92.0.gpio.000.out 1
07:11 PM tcurdt: getp hm2_7i92.0.gpio.000.in
07:11 PM tcurdt: is clear though
07:15 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Pins are defined at compile time for components in HAL. You can't change an input to an output.
07:17 PM tcurdt: ZincBoy[CAON]066 AFAIU the mesa has components that are defined in the bit file ... but I can also use any pin as GPIO as input or output
07:18 PM tcurdt: and I thought I would configure that through the hal
07:24 PM tcurdt: so am I wrong? ZincBoy[CAON]066
07:35 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: I don't think so. GPIO pins will have an .in and an .out. If you use the .out it will be set to that value. I don't know if there is a direction select. I haven't really used the GPIO, only the dedicated input and output pins on the daughter cards.
07:35 PM Tom_L: sinned6915, ?
07:35 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: The point stands that you can't change the direction of a HAL pin though.
07:41 PM Tom_L: they default to input however you _can_ change the direction with a pin modifier
07:41 PM Tom_L: in, in_not, out
07:42 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:43 PM Tom_dev: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_gpio
07:46 PM tcurdt: aaaaah! ... so it's "setp hm2_7i92.0.gpio.032.is_output 1" and 032 becomes an output
07:46 PM tcurdt: thanks, Tom_dev !
07:47 PM Tom_L: also notice the invert_output, is_opendrain, is_output parameters below that
07:51 PM Tom_L: sinned6915, have you installed the preempt-rt kernel yet?
07:52 PM Tom_L: mine is ver 4.19.235-1
07:53 PM Tom_L: buster has been updated since that webpage
07:54 PM Tom_L: tcurdt, be sure that line appears above any line you use it on
07:55 PM tcurdt: Tom_L because the hal order matters ... got it
08:05 PM Tom_L: who was asking about axis vs joint?
08:05 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:05 PM XXCoder: tcurdt i think
08:05 PM Tom_dev: http://linuxcnc.org/2016/06/27/Joints-Axes-merged/
08:05 PM XXCoder: that was exactly what I thought
08:05 PM tcurdt: yup! me
08:06 PM XXCoder: one machine type I menioned was directly menioned there also
08:06 PM Tom_dev: a couple parameters overlap
08:06 PM Tom_dev: they should be set the same in both sections afik
08:07 PM sinned6915: Tom_L: I did install the preemtpive kernerl
08:07 PM sinned6915: let me check the number
08:07 PM Tom_dev: uname -a
08:07 PM sinned6915: the current problem is linuxcnc auth key
08:07 PM Tom_dev: yes
08:07 PM Tom_dev: use the ubuntu key server
08:07 PM Tom_dev: the other one doesn't work
08:08 PM sinned6915: PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.235-1
08:08 PM Tom_dev: good
08:08 PM sinned6915: ok, the other issue was it would NOT let install and set root password to nothing
08:08 PM Tom_dev: Linux buster 4.19.0-20-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.235-1 (2022-03-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux
08:08 PM Tom_dev: that's what i have
08:08 PM Tom_dev: sure it will
08:09 PM Tom_dev: did you use a debian buster iso?
08:09 PM sinned6915: ah, it was 10.12 net-inst iso
08:10 PM sinned6915: and its giving me grief that the local user i created is not in sudoers
08:10 PM Tom_dev: there's a way to clear it but i forgot how
08:10 PM sinned6915: i can live with it for a while,
08:10 PM Tom_dev: 10 min you can start fresh
08:10 PM sinned6915: my questions is there any step in the process that relies on a blank root password?
08:11 PM Tom_dev: not that i'm aware of
08:11 PM Tom_dev: but that may be why you don't have sudo rights
08:11 PM sinned6915: ok, so i can clear it later
08:11 PM Tom_dev: i'm not too linux savvy
08:11 PM sinned6915: i am ssh'g to the machine too, it does not like root ssh'g
08:13 PM sinned6915: so which is the other keyserver?
08:13 PM tcurdt: sinned6915 you don't have superuser/root access?
08:13 PM sinned6915: i can su and give it the password
08:13 PM tcurdt: a blank root password can prevent sudo to work correctly
08:13 PM sinned6915: but if i sudo nano ... it complains that the user is not sudoer
08:14 PM tcurdt: then add it as sudoer
08:14 PM tcurdt: know how to do that?
08:14 PM Tom_dev: i think it's keyserver.ubuntu.com
08:15 PM sinned6915: "/sbin/usermod -aG username"
08:15 PM sinned6915: "/sbin/usermod -aG sudo username"
08:16 PM Tom_dev: yes
08:16 PM Tom_dev: for the linuxcnc key?
08:17 PM sinned6915: no, for sudo
08:17 PM sinned6915: per tcurdt
08:17 PM Tom_dev: dunno
08:18 PM Tom_dev: i installed mine without a root password
08:18 PM Tom_dev: for sudo i just enter my user password
08:18 PM sinned6915: tcurdt: i think i needed to exit and start a new shell
08:18 PM sinned6915: ok, the ubuntu keyserver worked
08:18 PM Tom_dev: for linuxcnc you will need to install all those dependencies
08:19 PM Tom_dev: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/rpi4-emc.html
08:19 PM Tom_dev: it will complain about gtksourceview2
08:19 PM Tom_dev: ignore that
08:19 PM sinned6915: tcurdt: which also means to logout of bitvise
08:19 PM sinned6915: Tom_dev: ok, one sec
08:19 PM Tom_dev: that's for gmocappy gui and the other graphic one
08:20 PM tcurdt: sinned6915 yes, new groups are available after a re-login
08:21 PM tcurdt: time for bed ... thx everyone .. more learning tomorrow :)
08:21 PM sinned6915: so the apt-get install linuxcnc-uspace is all i need to do to install linuxcnc ow?
08:22 PM sinned6915: tcurdt: thank you!
08:22 PM Tom_dev: no you need those dependencies
08:22 PM Tom_dev: you will get errors if you don't
08:23 PM sinned6915: does it not do automatically?
08:23 PM Tom_dev: not unless you use the linuxcnc iso
08:23 PM Tom_dev: this is a fresh debian install
08:23 PM sinned6915: yes.
08:23 PM sinned6915: hmm
08:23 PM sinned6915: lets see what it does
08:23 PM Tom_dev: at least jt added the ones you need
08:24 PM sinned6915: ok, now i am confused.
08:24 PM sinned6915: arent you JT?
08:24 PM Tom_dev: do i look like JT?
08:24 PM sinned6915: i get confused by the handles changing constantaly
08:24 PM Tom_dev: jt is JT-Cave or JT-Shop
08:25 PM Tom_dev: i'm Tom_L
08:25 PM sinned6915: ok
08:25 PM sinned6915: no offense intended.
08:25 PM XXCoder: tom always start with tom, jt always start with jt
08:25 PM Tom_dev is now known as XXCoder_imposter
08:25 PM XXCoder_imposter: :O
08:26 PM XXCoder: lol
08:26 PM sinned6915: that i KNOW is a spoof! lol
08:26 PM XXCoder_imposter is now known as Tom_dev
08:26 PM Tom_dev: so
08:26 PM Tom_dev: install the dependencies
08:26 PM sinned6915: no complaints yet
08:26 PM Tom_dev: then synaptic package manager search for linuxcnc
08:27 PM sinned6915: i will but nothing yet
08:27 PM Tom_dev: ok
08:28 PM sinned6915: i got no dependancy complaints. it finished the uspace install
08:28 PM Tom_dev: ok
08:28 PM Tom_dev: did you get a CNC menu added?
08:28 PM sinned6915: so that is where i am feeling like i am not finished
08:28 PM sinned6915: i did the uspace
08:29 PM sinned6915: is there any linuc cnc package to clone or install?
08:29 PM Tom_dev: you didn't install linuxcnc?
08:29 PM Tom_dev: you can clone and build it or you can install it. your choice
08:29 PM sinned6915: it was not anywhere in the instructions
08:30 PM sinned6915: literaly, lat part of https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian10-emc.html
08:30 PM sinned6915: is uspace
08:31 PM Tom_dev: hehe
08:31 PM sinned6915: or do i follow this page? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_installing_on_debian_buster_with_preempt_rt_kernel
08:31 PM Tom_dev: ok https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/rpi4-emc.html
08:31 PM Tom_dev: try that
08:31 PM Tom_dev: after the keyserver part
08:32 PM Tom_dev: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
08:32 PM Tom_dev: add the buster 2.8 branch to your sources list
08:33 PM Tom_dev: and the deb-src one
08:33 PM Tom_dev: then install all those dependencies
08:33 PM sinned6915: https://lounge.mikkel.cc/uploads/1173c7f0fca74884/image.png
08:34 PM Tom_dev: as long as you get them there...
08:35 PM Tom_dev: move them to the top or it may complain about some of the packages
08:35 PM Tom_dev: i've never gotten that error until this last install
08:35 PM sinned6915: ok, i have to go back to the physical linuccnc machine. brb
08:54 PM sinned6915: ok thiis is confusing
08:54 PM sinned6915: after the first part i installed the linuxcnc-uspace
08:55 PM Tom_L: you sure?
08:55 PM sinned6915: the buildbot page section "Adding the buildbot packages"
08:56 PM Tom_dev: skip to the yellow table and use those
08:56 PM sinned6915: https://lounge.mikkel.cc/uploads/2fac97c9c523afd9/image.png
08:56 PM sinned6915: so the linuxcnc-uspace is version 1.2.8.x or something
08:57 PM Tom_dev: yes, that would remove older pre packages that may have been installed
08:57 PM Tom_dev: then the new repo will point to the new 2.8.2 instead of the older 2.8.1~pre
08:57 PM Tom_dev: that's what that it sofr
08:58 PM Tom_dev: for
09:02 PM Tom_dev: i doubt you had any ~pre packages installed since it was a fresh buster install
09:08 PM Tom_dev: sinned6915, ?
09:44 PM RoboticsNut[m]: When I'm looking at jointn.f-error in halscope what scale should I set the gain to?
09:44 PM RoboticsNut[m]: I'm looking at 5m/div presently.\
09:49 PM pcw--home: mm or inch?
09:52 PM sinned6915_cnc: +Tom_L: this look right?
09:52 PM sinned6915_cnc: https://imgur.com/a/cemekpq
09:56 PM RoboticsNut[m]: I'm in inch units
10:05 PM roycroft: m is meters
10:05 PM roycroft: so i assume it's a big machine
10:08 PM RoboticsNut[m]: oh, is for a tiny lead screwl 5" of travel
10:21 PM pcw--home: 5m is 5 mills on a inch machine (and 5u on a mm machine)
10:24 PM roycroft: in american customary units m is miles
10:25 PM roycroft: which would mean the machine is even bigger :)
10:26 PM RoboticsNut[m]: I'm getting pretty low error at 5m.
10:26 PM RoboticsNut[m]: so I think the drive is working adequately.
10:26 PM RoboticsNut[m]: Though I'm not accelerating very fast, or moving very fast.
10:27 PM RoboticsNut[m]: When I tried the internal PID position controller on the drive, it was fantastically performant even at high speeds.
10:27 PM RoboticsNut[m]: though the Bridgeport specs say the axis is rated to 100ipm
10:28 PM RoboticsNut[m]: so I went with those numbers for the configuration.