#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 10 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:18 AM CaptainHindsight: https://www.reddit.com/r/Machinists/comments/v46um7/tour_eiffel_on_cnc/
12:27 AM CaptainHindsight: but still can't machine a boaty
12:50 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:04 AM Deejay: moin
01:56 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:56 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:58 AM travis_farmer853: G'Morning ☕
03:23 AM rene-dev56 is now known as rene-dev5
03:29 AM TurBoss8676[m]: morning
03:29 AM XXCoder: good morning sir bridgemaster!
03:30 AM TurBoss8676[m]: 😄
03:30 AM TurBoss8676[m]: I could not figure the apos issue
03:31 AM XXCoder: that sucks. best i can figure is pre-process all messages to be sent to discord, but i dont know bot source enough to even begin, assuming I was well
03:31 AM TurBoss8676[m]: I hope I can manage to fix soon
03:53 AM travis_farmer853: too bad Discord didn't have a search and replace feature, like what is used for custom censoring.
04:37 AM travis_farmer853: not really a LCNC question, but one of my servers for my website is running at 52.9c CPU temp (24 core, Dell PE R710)
04:37 AM travis_farmer853: seems high to me... or is this about average? i guess i never paid much attention before...
04:50 AM Tom_L: morning
05:00 AM CloudEvil: That is high, if that is the temp completely idle.
05:01 AM CloudEvil: But, it could be quite reasonable if it's throttled the fans all the way down at the same time
05:09 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:09 AM travis_farmer853: yeah, that is when idle. the fans are throttled down, but occasionally race up to full speed for 45 seconds to a minute.
05:10 AM travis_farmer853: i suspect dust clogging the cooling channels. i will vacuum it at some point today and see if that helps.
07:09 AM JT-Cave: todays project is finish the 6 bulb grow light fixture and install that as well as burn trash
07:11 AM Tom_L: one nice thing about living in the middle of nowhere.. you can burn just about anything
07:12 AM Tom_L: bulbs for chicken crack?
07:13 AM Tom_L: another storm moved thru last night
07:15 AM Tom_L: 85 for the high
07:15 AM travis_farmer853: 71F for a high here 😄
07:35 AM JT-Cave: bulbs for micro greens and chicken sprouts... chicken crack is dried mealworms, sunflower hearts and sunflower seeds
07:39 AM travis_farmer853: i was just about to ask what chicken crack was... you must have read my mind 🤣
08:48 AM * JT-Shop2 thinks he better mow the grass before it rains and do inside stuff while it's raining
09:07 AM JT-Shop2: mow one more time and it's time for the first oil change
09:22 AM CloudEvil: https://www.tiktok.com/@lucas_vrtech/video/7106919111703268650 The power of carefully and thoughtfully chosing your axes, and what you actually want to measure.
10:47 AM travis_farmer853: well... my test LCNC computer is dead in the water, until i get a working Ethernet or WiFi card for it.. that has native firmware.
10:47 AM travis_farmer853: without an internet connection, it is very hard to research to figure out why nothing seems to work... (pertaining to the Ethernet connection used for the Mesa connection)
10:47 AM travis_farmer853: i still have the Dell R200 that is still loaded with the production WORKING setup, so i am not completely dead, just the different computer is. it does provide a pretty good Max Jitter for the Servo period. never got above 15000 with me puttering around for half and hour. couldn't run YouTube, but it was as much activity as i could muster with what i had.
11:29 AM enleth1 is now known as enleth
02:19 PM roguish[m]: well, only 95 here now. still going up................
02:21 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:44 PM * JT-Shop removed 4 warning labels from a new extension cord and didn't even glance at them
02:49 PM roguish[m]: remove under penalty of law.........
02:58 PM roycroft: i had to stretch my lunch break today
02:59 PM roycroft: i flattened and jointed all my drawer front roughs
03:00 PM roycroft: and then, with the humidity being 140% again, i decided i needed to run the other sides through the thicknesser, so as to minimise warping
03:00 PM roycroft: and i decided that could not wait until after work
03:00 PM roycroft: so that's done, and they are stacked and stickered nicely
03:01 PM roycroft: now they get to sit for a week or so before i do the final dimensioning
03:10 PM JT-Shop: roguish[m], get your house painted?
03:11 PM roguish[m]: oh yeah. all done last week. nice job. very happy with it.
03:11 PM roguish[m]: and new hvac is working like a charm. 96 outside, 77 inside.
03:12 PM JT-Shop: nice
03:12 PM JT-Shop: got a guy coming to look at my Spyder tomorrow
03:13 PM roguish[m]: do you use craigslist, or ebay? whick is easier?
03:13 PM roguish[m]: I have a bunch of stuff i should sell off.
03:14 PM JT-Shop: craigslist works for a lot of items except motorcycles and cars it's $5 per posting
03:20 PM roycroft: a fiat spyder?
03:23 PM JT-Shop: Can-Am
03:23 PM roycroft: oh
03:23 PM JT-Shop: I need room in the garage lol and I prefer to ride the BlueWing
03:24 PM * roycroft had a fiat spyder back in the late '70s
03:24 PM roycroft: my "sports car" phase was short-lived
03:24 PM roycroft: it was a fun car, but high maintenance, and i've never been a fast driver
03:26 PM * CaptHindsight[m] had an Alfa Spyder, left it with a friend for a weekend and she nearly destroyed it
03:30 PM roycroft: i also owned a mustang once
03:31 PM roycroft: i wouldn't really call that a sports car
03:31 PM roycroft: it's more a "sporty" car that girls like
03:31 PM roycroft: i only bought it because my mechanic at the time was really into mustangs, and got me a good deal on it
03:31 PM roycroft: and he took really good car of it
03:31 PM roycroft: care
03:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: recall the year, I only had a '69 conv and a '72 Mach-1
03:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: never finished the '69
03:41 PM JT-Shop: my first mustang was a 65 yellow 6 cyl stick shift on the floor with a bench seat... pretty rare I think
03:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I used to find everyones project cars that never got finished, i stopped when I no longer finished them
03:42 PM JT-Shop: my second mustang was a 66 v8 and factory amp for the radio, I had to replace both front fenders and doors and one rear quarter panel
03:42 PM JT-Shop: the guy was driving in his neighborhood and a guy backed out without looking and the trailer hitch started at the headlight and finished at the tail light
03:43 PM JT-Shop: so he parked it with the bad side facing the house and someone side swiped the other side one night
03:43 PM JT-Shop: I bought it for $200
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: my sons car that I finished last year after 3 years was hit last month
03:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: people just can't wait at stop signs anymore
03:46 PM travis_farmer853: that 3D printer i asked to cancel the order on, just got delivered... so now i am stuck with whatever parts it has left... i will check it over tomorrow, see what is missing. i have a small Chineseium cnc laser i can scavenge parts from, like hardware...
03:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there was a seller on bay with all Flashforge printer returns, all $90ea, never sure what is in the box
03:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: s/bay/ebay/
03:50 PM travis_farmer853: in my quick look, i found no hardware, or directions...
03:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just packing material?
03:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or no accessory hardware?
03:51 PM travis_farmer853: no nuts and bolts
03:52 PM JT-Shop: ouch
03:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ever try to make a deal at Home depot or similar for some last remaining tool that has open packaging?
03:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "yeah we can knock $2 off that regular price"
03:55 PM travis_farmer853: yeah, got a sliding chop saw like that...
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: did you get an actual discount?
03:57 PM travis_farmer853: not exactly, we got a $15 Home-Depot gift card... better than nothing i guess
03:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: $300 tool?
03:57 PM travis_farmer853: $475 i think it was
03:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: that is probably about the only good thing about Amazon, if something expensive arrives with missing parts they tend to refund you quite a bit vs taking a return
03:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: missing remote $300
03:59 PM travis_farmer853: "back in my day, we didn't have remotes! we had to walk to the tv to change the channel." 😉
03:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have even gotten furniture from Amazon for free since it was a delivery mistake, they said keep it
03:59 PM travis_farmer853: dang, good deal
04:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heh, i was the remote
04:00 PM travis_farmer853: lol
04:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we were also poor (well very cheap) so we didn't have UHF or color TV until maybe '72
04:01 PM travis_farmer853: just found a manual for the ender 3, so at least i have that to go by now... see what else i am missing
04:01 PM travis_farmer853: we had two tvs. one for picture, and one for sound. 😉
04:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hah
04:02 PM roycroft: my tv has a remote, but my hifi does not
04:02 PM roycroft: and i use the hifi for tv sound
04:03 PM roycroft: so i do have to get up and walk across the room to adjust the volume
04:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: taught myself TV repair, my room was then filled with everyone's broken TV's
04:03 PM travis_farmer853: lol, roycroft
04:03 PM travis_farmer853: yeah, i tought myself electronics by taking stuff apart
04:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we still had electronics factories in Chicago back then
04:04 PM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: I had a '65 298 mustang. hiperf motor - solid lifiters. 3 spd stick
04:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we dumpster dived for parts and assemblies, how i got started
04:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nice
04:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish[m]: what color?
04:07 PM travis_farmer853: i had a 2014 Chevy Spark.. hiperf 1.2L motor, 5 spd stick, 0 - 60 in 3 days 😉
04:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: downhill with the wind
04:07 PM travis_farmer853: lol, yes
04:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have a 85 Fiero here in 1k parts, first thing was remove the 4 cyl Iron Duke
04:08 PM travis_farmer853: at the same time, i had a 1988 Honda GL1500, so my bike had a bigger motor than my car
04:09 PM andypugh: Probably already been posted, but cool kinematics: https://youtu.be/RR4pmNEWuo4?t=124
04:11 PM roguish[m]: andypugh: isn't there already hex-a-pod kinematics for linuxcnc?
04:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 3d printed parts as well?
04:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah
04:11 PM andypugh: There is, but that’s a rather new way of doing it, and a very clever one.
04:11 PM roguish[m]: yup
04:14 PM andypugh: Ah, disappointing for the inventor, he didn’t invent it first. (Been there so many times)
04:14 PM andypugh: https://youtu.be/g9uMf_9CW6k
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if the end goal is practical there isn't much left
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if it's just to be unique for a patent then much is possible
04:15 PM andypugh: I _think_ that I am the first to invent my lock design.
04:15 PM roguish[m]: andypugh: think you could get the kinematics for it?
04:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I saw a mention of the lock but I didn't want to look
04:17 PM andypugh: Talking of which, I took my lock design to EMF Camp and challenged the lock piking village there. https://photos.app.goo.gl/yPjbKCiKaya41D4u7
04:17 PM roguish[m]: or is that the reverse kinematics ???
04:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish[m]: the actual math is old, writing it in C/C++ is another story
04:18 PM andypugh: One guy got really annoyed with it, and picked it 300 times, but only to the trap.
04:18 PM CloudEvil: :)
04:19 PM CloudEvil: Can you pick it?
04:19 PM Tom_L: andy, you finished it?
04:19 PM andypugh: So, despite some serious attempts from good pickers, it remains unbeaten.
04:19 PM CloudEvil: Do they get to know the design?
04:19 PM andypugh: Yes.
04:20 PM andypugh: In fact the space on that label was for a QR code to the details of the challenge, and a picture of the design.
04:20 PM CloudEvil: ah
04:20 PM jdh: send it to the LPL?
04:20 PM andypugh: He doesn’t answer emails. He only wants to show himself picking locks.
04:21 PM travis_farmer853: sounds like a lawyer 😉
04:21 PM sliptonicBradCol: He probably gets a lot of challenges sent his way
04:22 PM andypugh: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ufWQuY9g5kv6v5DgBClG-8c0B2aSbH7KJ0KS2EgqD0M/edit?usp=sharing
04:23 PM andypugh: Unlike many such designs, it fits in a standard cylinder profile, https://photos.app.goo.gl/gR6qiUr2LPENL4b46
04:24 PM andypugh: That’s it mounted in a padlock for EMF camp.
04:24 PM CloudEvil: neat
04:25 PM Tom_L: was it more fun making or coming up with the idea?
04:25 PM Tom_L: or... watching it not get picked :)
04:25 PM andypugh: Oh, definitely making. I am far more interested in the machining than the lock (or in selling the design)
04:27 PM CloudEvil: Is it actually manufacturable in volume?
04:27 PM CloudEvil: And is it intended for there to be just the cutaway, and no explaantion?
04:28 PM andypugh: In fact I so-much didn’t like this design with the tiny-screws into too-shallow holes: https://photos.app.goo.gl/u4nojA86snn6kFEi6
04:29 PM andypugh: That I am making some more that fit together with a tiny bayonet style fitting: https://photos.app.goo.gl/EM2ew161YsZHi62Y6
04:31 PM CloudEvil: :)
04:32 PM andypugh: CloudEvil: Yes, this two-part shell is just to avoid me making / buying a special annular cutter. But with that cutter it’s not very different to make to a standard lock. All the parts look like lock parts, and the actual parts inventory is less as the differs are built with wafers rather than multiple key pins.
04:32 PM CloudEvil: Shiny.
04:33 PM andypugh: I might make the cutter anyway, it might be fun :-)
04:33 PM CloudEvil: I had a thought-experiment lock based around notched pins which sample the pins before rotating 90 degrees to the actual sensing part, to keep picks well away of the actual active zone.
04:34 PM andypugh: Like a rotabroach cutter but with 12.258mm ID and 15.258 OD
04:34 PM CloudEvil: ^sample the key
04:34 PM CloudEvil: Conceptually similar to a bowley lock, but not.
04:35 PM andypugh: CloudEvil: Like the “Stuff Made Here” lock, or maybe this one: https://youtu.be/l-EN1duVk9w?t=67
04:35 PM DigitalReaper: you could also make a trepanning tool if you wanted something more generic/reusable
04:35 PM CloudEvil: I have not seriously considered the field - it's one I'd like to deep dive into if I had the energy
04:36 PM DigitalReaper: either a lathe tool or something you can stick in a boring head
04:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roguish[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a9qIj7kwiA
04:37 PM andypugh: “Enclave” is pretty clever, but doesn’t package. Mine isn’t quite as clever, but does package.
04:38 PM andypugh: (Though locksmiths reckon that my design is tougher against brute force attacks than Enclave)
04:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: with a magnesium shackle, so when the cutting wheel hits it a flame starts and alerts the neighborhood
04:39 PM andypugh: DigitalReaper: Trepaning a 1.5mm thick x 25mm deep hole? Good luck with that...
04:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: powdered metal
04:40 PM DigitalReaper: ah. I didn't realize it was so deep (google doesn't work without javascript so no pics)
04:41 PM DigitalReaper: oh well, still an idea to throw in the toolbox
04:42 PM andypugh: CaptainHindsight: I am pretty sure that the annular cutter would work, but it would be a fun challenge to make. Where’s Syyl when you need him?
04:44 PM DigitalReaper: chip evacuation might be an issue
04:45 PM andypugh: Yes, it would need flutes. Though through-tool coolant is really easy. I would anticipate a guide-rod too.
05:00 PM andypugh: Helical sweeps in Fusion are more trouble than I fancy this time of night, but the cutter would look a bit like this, but with chip evacuation.
05:00 PM andypugh: https://a360.co/3aHWKHx
05:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cutters/counterbore2.jpg
05:25 PM Tom_L: same or different?
05:25 PM Tom_L: andypugh,
05:26 PM Tom_L: those are counterbores
05:27 PM andypugh: Different, I need to leave a shape like this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/zmt8iNSDt9zyxmhW7
05:42 PM JT-Shop: https://thepatriotwoodworker.com/forums/topic/37460-2x4-storage-rack/
05:51 PM XXCoder: andypugh: nice lock
05:53 PM * xxcoder8265[m] uploaded an image: (210KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/ZVibmExuSYgXJDktrxsIXaAe/unknown.png >
05:53 PM xxcoder8265[m]: double springed?
05:58 PM XXCoder: https://hackaday.com/2022/06/10/3d-printed-lobe-pump-shifts-water-well/ nice
06:17 PM JT-Cave: looks like they were machined after printing...
06:18 PM Tom_L: ahh i see
06:18 PM Tom_L: or sanded
06:18 PM JT-Cave: aye
06:19 PM JT-Cave: did you see my 2x4 rack
06:19 PM Tom_L: no cut marks that i see
06:19 PM Tom_L: just walked in
06:19 PM JT-Cave: no layer lines either
06:19 PM Tom_L: clicking
06:20 PM Tom_L: is that the ones you made previously or a new set?
06:20 PM Tom_L: i've seen the old ones
06:20 PM JT-Cave: made them a month ago
06:20 PM XXCoder: yep still looks nice
06:20 PM Tom_L: yeah i was watching then
06:20 PM JT-Cave: ah ok
06:20 PM JT-Cave: I forgot if I posted it here or not
06:21 PM Tom_L: i forgot what i did 5 min ago..
06:21 PM JT-Cave: it was a fun project
06:21 PM JT-Cave: I resemble that
06:22 PM Tom_L: also noticed you rounded the pegs but not against the 2x
06:23 PM Tom_L: except maybe 1 :)
06:23 PM Tom_L: at least that's how it appeared
06:24 PM JT-Cave: the pins are split pins both outside edges are rounded but the inside is not
06:24 PM Tom_L: ahh ok
06:25 PM Tom_L: any utility updates?
06:25 PM JT-Cave: working on flashing a pci card with sudo but not done yet
06:26 PM Tom_L: can't test that here
06:26 PM JT-Cave: I think travis_farmer853 was going to test but not heard anything
06:26 PM Tom_L: oh wait.. maybe i have an 6i something...
06:26 PM Tom_L: i'll have to look
06:26 PM JT-Cave: it requires sudo so a bit of a challenge
06:26 PM Tom_L: pcie maybe?
06:26 PM JT-Cave: 6i25 is pcie
06:26 PM JT-Cave: 5i25 is pci
06:26 PM Tom_L: i may have one of those
06:26 PM Tom_L: 6ixx
06:27 PM Tom_L: 5 is pci 6 is pcie right?
06:27 PM JT-Cave: yup
06:27 PM Tom_L: i could probably test that
06:27 PM * JT-Cave hears some salad being fixed see you in the morning
06:27 PM JT-Cave: coo
06:27 PM JT-Cave: l
06:28 PM Tom_L: later
06:28 PM JT-Cave: that would be great
06:28 PM Tom_L: pretty sure it's the pcie one though
06:36 PM coralgoat: I am trying to get a CNC router's spindle motor working.
06:36 PM coralgoat: The spindle motor has this information on it:
06:36 PM coralgoat: WH80, 2.2 kW, 220 V, 8 A, 400 Hz, 24,000 RPM
06:36 PM coralgoat: There are two VFDs that are already on hand and could be used with this spindle motor.
06:36 PM coralgoat: The first VFD is VFD015EL21A. <https://deltaacdrives.com/delta-vfd015el21a/>
06:36 PM coralgoat: The second VFD is HY01D523B. <https://www.lollette.com/inverter-HY01D523B.html>
06:36 PM coralgoat: The problem is that there is not a 220V outlet available to power either of these VFD.
06:36 PM coralgoat: I asked about having a 240V outlet put in and was asked to find another way to power the VFD and it's spindle motor.
06:36 PM coralgoat: There is also a restriction that has been put on the use of the VFD015EL21A VFD which is that it remain in the CNC controller box it came in. A single 220V plug powers the entire CNC controller box (including the VFD015EL21A VFD). On this box it says "Voltage 220V 1 phase" and "Total power 3.5kW".
06:36 PM coralgoat: So I think the watt requirements for these VFDs are:
06:36 PM coralgoat: * 3,500W for the entire CNC controller box that the VFD015EL21A VFD has to remain in
06:36 PM coralgoat: * 1,540W (220V * 7A) for the HY01D523B VFD
06:37 PM coralgoat: Would the HY01D523B VFD work with the motor specs above?
06:37 PM coralgoat: I was thinking about combining two out of phase 120V electrical outlets like what is explained in this video <https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=LZbIJZe_YDs>.
06:37 PM coralgoat: I have measured the voltage of the out of phase electrical outlets with a multi meter and found the highest voltage to be 205V.
06:37 PM coralgoat: <https://deltaacdrives.com/delta-vfd015el21a/> says "Input Range VAC: 200 to 240 Volts AC".
06:37 PM coralgoat: <https://www.lollette.com/inverter-HY01D523B.html> says "Input Voltage : 220V, single phase or three phase".
06:37 PM coralgoat: What do people think about trying to run one of these VFDs off of a combined out of phase 205V?
06:37 PM XXCoder: whoa
06:37 PM XXCoder: try to use dpaste.com if text paste is large
06:41 PM roycroft: i think it's extremely unsafe
06:42 PM coralgoat: roycroft, okay I will avoid the 205V out of phase option. Thanks
06:42 PM coralgoat: Another option I was looking at was using a 120V to 240V step up transformer.
06:43 PM coralgoat: Looking at the product descriptions for step up transformer I saw the suggestion of getting one that has a watt spec three times the watt required by the load.
06:43 PM coralgoat: Given the watt requirements above these are the step up transformer I was thinking of:
06:43 PM roycroft: how much power do you need?
06:43 PM roycroft: if not too much, there are vfds that run with 120vac mains coming in
06:44 PM roycroft: a step up transformer would be a lot safer than pulling current off of two different circuits and combining it
06:44 PM coralgoat: roycroft, I am looking to power a spindle motor with this information on it "WH80, 2.2 kW, 220 V, 8 A, 400 Hz, 24,000 RPM".
06:45 PM roycroft: so 3hp
06:45 PM roycroft: a 20a 120v circuit would be barely adequate for that
06:45 PM roycroft: and you would have to have no other load on the circuit
06:46 PM roycroft: but if you have a spare 20a circuit that you can dedicate, get the step-up transformer
06:47 PM coralgoat: I was looking at these step up transformers.
06:47 PM coralgoat: * for the CNC controller box with the VFD015EL21A VFD
06:47 PM coralgoat: ** (3,500W * 3) 10,000W <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BA00LJI>
06:47 PM coralgoat: * for the HY01D523B VFD
06:47 PM coralgoat: ** (1,540W * 3) 5,000W <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D7JPJDP>
06:47 PM * roycroft knows exactly what that spindle is, as he has several of them
06:48 PM roycroft: for $500 you can hire an electrician to pull a 20a 250v circuit for you
06:49 PM roycroft: the one in the second link does not weigh enough for me to trust
06:49 PM coralgoat: roycroft, is there a model of 120V AC VFD you would suggest?
06:49 PM roycroft: not for 2.2kw
06:50 PM roycroft: do you not have a 250v circuit anywhere?
06:50 PM roycroft: folks often build these machines in their garage or basement, and there's often a 30a electric clothes dryer outlet nearby
06:50 PM roycroft: if you have one you can make an extension cord to operate the machine
06:50 PM roycroft: you just can't do laundry while the machine is running
06:52 PM * roycroft heads to jerry's for a couple parts
06:52 PM coralgoat: The issue is that I think the 250V are being used by other machines and I am not sure if they can add more 250V outlets. I will have to ask about that specifically.
06:52 PM coralgoat: roycroft, thanks
06:53 PM XXCoder: this is insane https://youtu.be/RR4pmNEWuo4
07:07 PM DigitalReaper: using 2 110v circuits is a shock hazard, as soon as one plug is inserted the other becomes live. the kind of transformer you want is known as an autotransformer, it's non-isolating but only needs to supply the difference in supplied/required voltage and as such is much smaller/cheaper
07:12 PM DigitalReaper: it's also known as a buck/boost transformer. https://youtu.be/mb75-kVVtW8?t=217 goes into a lot of detail on how to use one (he's stepping voltage down but they go up just as easily)
07:18 PM coralgoat: DigitalReaper, thanks for pointing out the idea of a autotransformer.
07:19 PM DigitalReaper: np
07:20 PM DigitalReaper: also I just realized it sounds like your building is wired for 208v 3 phase so if you get a proper circuit run you won't need one anyway
07:20 PM DigitalReaper: https://www.thermalcorporation.com/208-volts-is-a-weird-voltage-where-did-it-come-from/
07:22 PM DigitalReaper: actually, maybe you will. I think I was looking at the wrong diagram
07:23 PM DigitalReaper: my guess is you have a wye config and as such you get 208v between any 2 phases and 120v between any phase and neutral
07:25 PM DigitalReaper: it's also possible there's already another transformer supplying 240v for other devices in the building so *shrug*. contact whoever's in charge before you commit to anything
07:26 PM coralgoat: DigitalReaper, yes it is 205V across 2 outlets and 120V on one outlet.
07:29 PM DigitalReaper: you can also supply many (but not all) 2.2kw VFDs with 3 phase directly
07:30 PM DigitalReaper: so 3 phase to the cabinet/VFD might be an option and just tap off 110v for anything in there that needs it
07:39 PM coralgoat: DigitalReaper, that is another new idea for me. Could you elaborate on the "3 phase directly ... to the cabinet/VFD" and "tap off 110v"?
07:40 PM DigitalReaper: the VFD gets connected to L1, L2 and L3. any 110v devices get connected between neutral and any of the phases
07:41 PM DigitalReaper: I'm assuming you have more than just the VFD in the cabinet and those things need 110v not 208v single/three phase
07:47 PM coralgoat: That is correct for the VFD015EL21A. I have been told it is required to stay in the cabinet with the other components.
07:48 PM coralgoat: There is another VFD available.
07:48 PM coralgoat: HY01D523B <https://www.lollette.com/inverter-HY01D523B.html>
07:49 PM DigitalReaper: that's a 1.5kw drive but your motor is '2.2kw'
07:49 PM coralgoat: But I do not know if it will work with a motor that has these specs: WH80, 2.2 kW, 220 V, 8 A, 400 Hz, 24,000 RPM
07:51 PM coralgoat: DigitalReaper, what specs should I be looking at to determine compatability of the VFD and motor?
07:52 PM DigitalReaper: I don't have experience with motors/drives
07:54 PM DigitalReaper: it's possible your existing drives could work but just be limited on maximum power. ie running your motor at 1.5kw
07:54 PM DigitalReaper: but someone else will have to weigh in on that, i'm just making guesses here
07:55 PM coralgoat: DigitalReaper, thanks
08:04 PM roycroft: if you feed single phase power into a vfd you need to derate the output of the vfd by 50%
08:04 PM roycroft: so if you have a 2.2kw spindle you need a 3kw vfd to run it with single phase mains
08:04 PM roycroft: at least
08:04 PM roycroft: 4kw would be better
08:05 PM roycroft: if you read your manufacturer's specs you will see that they stipulate this
08:06 PM * roycroft is almost regretting either getting rid of his belt sander or building his belt grinder with a 3hp motor
08:07 PM roycroft: i am sanding my drawer pulls now, and even with a very light touch, and running the motor at less than half speed (1400rpm) i'm getting burn marks on the pulls occasionally
08:07 PM roycroft: and i'm only using a p120 belt
08:07 PM roycroft: i had planned on going to p320, and if i do, it will be hand sanding for sure
08:12 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: If you have 205V across two outlets and 120V across one, you have a nominal 208V 3 phase feed to your panel. Running 3 phase to the VFD is much better but you can run the 240V VFD from 208V. Most VFDs have the nominal 240V mode cover the range of 200V to 250V.
08:15 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: This is true for more or less every VFD over 2.2kW. For VFDs 2.2kW and under, most of them will not need to be derated for single phase operation. This will be spelled out in your VFD manual to be sure.
08:16 PM djdelorie: well, you have nominal 2-of-3 phase at leas
08:50 PM roycroft: perhaps with under 2.2kw vfds
08:51 PM roycroft: i have seen specs on several 2.2kw vfds that suggest derating
08:51 PM roycroft: but i did direct the user to the manufacturer's specifications
08:51 PM roycroft: as i do not know the exact product being used
08:53 PM roycroft: i also did not mention the general prc derating that is essential
08:54 PM roycroft: while i appreciate that the prc are now concerned about excess environmental pollution of their country, i do not approve of their packing exesssive amounts of blue smoke into all electronic components manufactured there, with the intent that it be released in other parts of the world
08:55 PM roycroft: and a good way to combat that unwanted release is to derate everything originating from there, in addition to any other prudent deratings
08:58 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: For sure. My comment on the VFDs is for name brand units and not the cheapest thing from aliexpress 🙂 I would definitely derate any of those units but I don't find them much cheaper than getting good quality from places like automation direct. Still made in the same place but with actual quality control.
09:12 PM roycroft: what is disconcerting is that there are some decent quality vfds (amongst other electronic devices/components) that are made in the prc
09:12 PM roycroft: and those are fine
09:13 PM roycroft: but there are usually counterfeit/knock-off versions of those same devices/components, that are not at all fine
09:13 PM roycroft: and it can be difficult (by intent) for the average person to differentiate between the genuine and the counterfeit
09:14 PM XXCoder: got that atomic dialed in?
09:15 PM roycroft: no
09:15 PM roycroft: but i got two more spools of atomic delivered today
09:15 PM XXCoder: ok
09:16 PM roycroft: i'm in the middle of doing the final machining on my drawer pulls - adding the roundovers to all the edges
09:16 PM roycroft: i may get back to that after dinner
09:16 PM roycroft: or i may go load some filament in my printer
09:16 PM XXCoder: thats cool :)
09:16 PM XXCoder: I went to ikea, with my sis in law. she needed drawers lol. today, I know I'm allegric to ikea soap
09:16 PM roycroft: i realised that the filament i loaded and tested had been sitting around for a couple months not dried and vacuum sealed
09:17 PM XXCoder: hands got very itchy then numb and bit swollen
09:17 PM roycroft: so it may be just wet filament that's the problem
09:17 PM roycroft: i'll pull some dry stuff out next to test
09:17 PM XXCoder: might be it. usually just bagging it and leave in cardboard is enough to keep pla pretty good
09:17 PM roycroft: s/dry/known dry/
09:17 PM roycroft: even when the humidity is 140%?
09:18 PM XXCoder: well I wouldnt keep it in rooms where its raining
09:20 PM roycroft: the printer lives in the same room as my equipment rack
09:20 PM roycroft: even in the dead of winter the computers in the rack generate way more heat than is needed, so the window is open year-round
09:21 PM roycroft: that room is just off my kitchen, and in the winter, i actually put a fan in that room and blow heat into the kitchen, so i don't have to use the radiant ceiling heat in the kitchen and dining rooom
09:22 PM roycroft: in the summer i move the van to the window and blow as much of the heat as i can outside
09:23 PM coralgoat: roycroft, what type of filament material?
09:23 PM XXCoder: I still find it ironic that heat is a form of energy, but we cant extract it to make stuff cold and collect power
09:23 PM XXCoder: no, we gonna spend energy to move heat out
09:25 PM roycroft: we actually can, and do
09:25 PM roycroft: that's what heat pumps do
09:25 PM roycroft: coralgoat: pla
09:25 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: How do you think a power plant works? It is by converting heat to a different form of energy. Now low quality heat is of limited use because you just can't extract a economically useful amount of energy.
09:26 PM XXCoder: well yeah
09:26 PM XXCoder: im talking something like hot air
09:27 PM XXCoder: not enough to extract the usual way
09:27 PM coralgoat: roycroft, have you tried annealing PLA to increase the temperature it melts at?
09:27 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Thermodynamics always gets in the way 🙂
09:28 PM roycroft: xxcoder: some heating systems extract heat from air and store that heat in underground revervoirs, and then in the winter extract that heat to warm the building
09:28 PM XXCoder: yeah. thats still retaining heat form of energy
09:29 PM XXCoder: would be great if we had much more direct heat->power
09:29 PM XXCoder: stirlings only extract energy from heat differences
09:29 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Thermoelectric junctions can do that but the efficiency is terrible.
09:31 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: You have to have a temperature differential to extract energy. There is no way to do it just from a system at equilibrium temperature.
09:31 PM XXCoder: so far we know
09:32 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: LOL, now we are in the domain of free energy and infinite motion.
09:32 PM roycroft: well it's terribly difficult to do
09:32 PM roycroft: there is always a cost to converting energy from one state to another
09:33 PM XXCoder: zinc, im not talking about extracting nonexistant energy
09:33 PM XXCoder: roy indeed
09:38 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: You can have a vast amount of potential energy but until you release that potential, you can't use it for anything. That is why you need a temperature differential to use thermal energy. A system all at a given temperature has no potential difference no matter how high the temperature or thermal energy is.
09:44 PM roycroft: this is why heat pumps that store heat when it is hot and extract heat when it is cold work so well
09:45 PM roycroft: typically they store the heat in some underground tubes filled with ethylene glycol or some similar liquid that is able to transfer heat very efficiently
09:47 PM djdelorie: those tubes don't store enough to be useful. They're transferring heat to/from the earth itself
09:48 PM roycroft: if they are big enough they can be useful
09:48 PM roycroft: and they can be insulated
09:48 PM djdelorie: I've got geothermal; it doesn't take long to reach equilibrium - like, days, not seasons
09:49 PM djdelorie: power storage ideas are thinking about "filling caverns with liquid salt" not "a tube full of glycol"
09:50 PM DigitalReaper: tubes are for transfering heat, tanks are for storing it
09:51 PM djdelorie: or caverns :-)
09:52 PM DigitalReaper: wouldn't those need to be insulated and air sealed? y'know, like a tank? :)
09:53 PM djdelorie: yeah. They reuse salt domes and deep depleted wells
09:59 PM coralgoat: roycroft, <https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=DyAKtS1b3SQ> video on annealing PLA.
09:59 PM roycroft: i don't think that's my problem, coralgoat
09:59 PM roycroft: but i'll check out the video later on
09:59 PM roycroft: i'm going to go finish my drawer pulls right now, before it gets too late
10:02 PM coralgoat: roycroft, it is just a neat post processing technique for PLA. It is not about moisture absorption.
10:53 PM roycroft: it might be interesting
10:53 PM roycroft: i have over 1000 boxes to print
10:54 PM roycroft: my interest is in printing them as quickly and easily as possible
10:55 PM roycroft: so as much as i dislike working with jatobá, when it's sanded to p320 and varnish oil applied, it's a very attractive wood
10:56 PM roycroft: whether it is worth the effort or not, i'm not sure
10:56 PM roycroft: but the end result is nice
10:57 PM XXCoder: nice
10:58 PM roycroft: i have several in finish
10:58 PM roycroft: i'll take a couple pics this weekene
10:58 PM roycroft: it actually looks kind of like mahogany when it's finished
10:59 PM roycroft: but it's way harder and more brittle and a total bitch to work with
10:59 PM roycroft: while mahogany hand tools and machines nicely