Jun 06 2022
05:19 AM travis_farmer853: that's different, never seen a log bot before...
05:28 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, one thing i found by accident, you should allow positive values in Scale. if i put a negative there and check Reverse Dir i get a double '--'
05:31 AM travis_farmer853: i just wish i had the forethought to run a power wire from my generator load-center... so my machine is unprotected from power loss... i will be eventually adding a UPS for it, and setting the machine to pause when power fails, just so it doesn't die tragically
05:44 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:56 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:07 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, I fixed it so you can't have both rev dir and negative scale
11:30 AM Tom_L: ok, i'll grab it later. got some branches to clean up after the storm
11:49 AM travis_farmer853: a thought came to my attention... it occurred to me that the fixtures i may need to finish my CNC router table, could be 3D printed with my Ender 3 i just bought (once i get it working).
11:49 AM travis_farmer853: previously, i figured i would have to mill them out of aluminum, but with the machine not ready to do aluminum, it was holding me back. but 3D printing is definitely an option 🙂
12:21 PM CloudEvil: PLA, while it has problems, is really pretty rigid and strong, if it's used right
12:25 PM roycroft: pla+ is supposed to be stronger than pla
12:26 PM roycroft: my cursory testing with it indicates that it's not weaker
12:30 PM roguish[m]: good morning..... has anyone tried to print a timing belt pulley? successfully?
12:39 PM hazzy[m]: roguish[m]: yes, I’ve printed some pretty decent small timing pulleys. I used cad models from McMaster and added more draft to the side plates so I would have to use support
12:39 PM hazzy[m]: *Wouldn’t
01:00 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: roguish[m]: I have printed several timing pulleys. Mostly GT3 and GT5 style. They work fine but will have a few thou of runout so there is some periodic error in motion transmission.
01:00 PM XXCoder: roycroft: https://hackaday.com/2021/04/10/dynamic-build-platforms-for-3d-printers-remove-supports-and-save-material/
01:05 PM roguish[m]: kcjengr[m]: Hazzy, is that you?
01:07 PM roguish[m]: _discord_554508768402997249[m]: i need to add some reduction to my y axis ball screw. want to at least a 5mm pitch belt. probably an AT5. could go up to an L profile (3/8 pitch). thinking of printing rather than buying pulleys. both motor and ball screw.
01:08 PM roguish[m]: like a 20 tooth motor side, and a 60 tooth ball screw.
01:10 PM roguish[m]: just wondering if they'd be rugged enough.
01:10 PM silopolis[m]: hello friends, I'm asked if a simple 3 axis, dual joint Y, 2.8.2 ini/hal config files will work under 2.9 ?
01:10 PM silopolis[m]: Sorry have a doubt suddenly
01:16 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: The belt drive interface will be fine but I would be concerned about keeping them solidly attached to the motor/ballscrew shafts. I printed pulleys for encoders so there is very little torque. In a motion system application the torque on the small shaft ends is significant. You also need to use a reasonably high temp plastic as the motor can get quite hot. I used CF-Nylon for temperature and creep resistance. I would buy them
01:16 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: for your application.
01:46 PM unterhausen: I just sent an email to two addressees and apparently that caused it to be flagged as spam content
01:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: spammer!
01:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i had ti set my spam filter to only "obvious" spam or it would block messages from the LCNC maillist
01:47 PM unterhausen: it was a one sentence email with no links or anything, so i assume it was the 2 addressees
01:48 PM unterhausen: yeah, I think google is hilarious because they block their own email groups quite often
01:49 PM unterhausen: I always filter email lists with "never send to spam"
01:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: debatable spam :)
01:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'd prefer keywords to trigger spam
01:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: worse is if your webhost shares mail servers with your account and an actual spammer
01:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and you get ip blocked
01:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: one reason to avoid Delux Hosting
01:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://framadate.org/LinuxCNC-June-2022-online-meeting
02:10 PM JT-Shop2: yippee the 15hh is here
02:11 PM JT-Shop2: step 1 move a bunch of stuff so there is room to back the trailer in
02:11 PM JT-Shop2: step 2 wait for the rain to stop
02:11 PM JT-Shop2: step 3 figure out how to get it off the trailer (was pretty easy with old tilt trailer)
02:17 PM travis_farmer853: probably this will get flagged by somebody as SPAM... but i found a neat Rpi project, that runs on a Pi3B. it is called Screenly OSE (Open Source Edition). it is digital signage from a Rpi!
02:17 PM travis_farmer853: now, the reason you folks "may" be interested, you can load it with a bunch of pictures of your work, and display it for customers/clients in your shop. that is why i got interested in it. 🙂
02:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: like a digital picture frame?
02:18 PM travis_farmer853: yeah, but on a bigger screen if you want
02:18 PM XXCoder: digital picture frame is so cheap lol
02:19 PM XXCoder: or just get android stick, and use pictures screensaver
02:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pi3 can also handle video
02:19 PM travis_farmer853: it does other stuff too, i am trying to find the website
02:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: travis_farmer: do you let customers into your shop?
02:20 PM travis_farmer853: i will when i get a shop 😉
02:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have to keep them out
02:21 PM XXCoder: capt when I worked ay a shop, they do give a tour once a while
02:21 PM travis_farmer853: whatever, i just thought it was neat
02:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some just want to see how to do something vs hire you to do it
02:21 PM XXCoder: usually important clients
02:21 PM XXCoder: once a year, students from high school
02:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but I'm not a machine shop
02:21 PM travis_farmer853: maybe ad a trade show then...
02:22 PM travis_farmer853: at
02:23 PM travis_farmer853: anyway, if anybody wants to check it out, https://www.screenly.io/ose/ it is 100% free for the OSE version, and no i am not affiliated with it 😉
02:32 PM JT-Shop2: I want my rpi4 to display rtsp camera feed from 6 ip cameras and play music, I found a python program but it gobbles up all the rpi4 memory and the kernel shuts it down
02:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://preview.redd.it/3wpc6wzug0491.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=972704c71ceb405333a4fabbbc5f82ddf89a52bc
02:38 PM XXCoder: rod whupping?
02:39 PM XXCoder: why was there no holder for rear?
02:40 PM JT-Shop2: hmm the 15hh weighs 582 pounds...
02:41 PM JT-Shop2: hmm it's supposed to be sunny this afternoon
02:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: using the backhoe and some straps?
02:44 PM travis_farmer853: 582 pounds? in my youth i could lift that with my legs... though now... not likely.
02:45 PM XXCoder: that rod is that heavy eh
02:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.amazon.com/Shoulder-Dolly-Moving-Straps-Efficiently/dp/B00022749Q just get these two
02:53 PM JT-Cave: but there's only one of me
02:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: is it just people that work around me or do people not know how to act around a front door? They don't knock, they just yank on the door and then go to the next door and do the same.
02:54 PM JT-Cave: and that looks pretty dangerous with a single strap under the load
02:54 PM travis_farmer853: try and develop a second personality 😉
02:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok so pulling didn't work so you just walk next door and do the same
02:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and these are adults
02:55 PM unterhausen: I had a length of tube that started to go eccentric on the lathe. Fortunately hit the stop button in time
02:55 PM JT-Cave: age is not related to common sense
02:55 PM JT-Cave: CaptHindsight[m], https://gnipsel.com/shop/gantry/gantry.xhtml
02:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: apparently
02:55 PM JT-Cave: I think I can lift it off the trailer
02:56 PM JT-Cave: I should add a photo where it is now and all painted up
02:59 PM JT-Cave: CaptHindsight[m], I could lift it off the trailer with the backhoe, but the gantry crane would be a better choice inside the shop
02:59 PM XXCoder: if its often the case its heavy something, then yeah id go for crane'
03:04 PM roycroft: age is not related to much except aches and pains
03:06 PM JT-Shop2: you got that right
03:06 PM * roycroft passes the bottle of dones pills around the channnel
03:06 PM JT-Shop2: looks like the 15hh has 4 lift handles built in for straps so the gantry will be out
03:07 PM roycroft: my grizzly has those
03:07 PM roycroft: they're rods about 18mm in diameter that pull out for lifting
03:07 PM roycroft: they mount below the bed
03:20 PM roycroft: the lift rods on your 15hh look almost identical to what i have
03:20 PM roycroft: they are very handy
03:22 PM travis_farmer853: even more handy... if you have more than one person to use them 😉
03:23 PM roycroft: jt has a gantry crane
03:24 PM roycroft: so it requires zero people to use them in his case :)
03:24 PM travis_farmer853: true...
03:24 PM JT-Shop: well you do need one hand to pull on the chain of the chain fall
03:26 PM JT-Shop: and you better sweep the floor before you try and move it
03:27 PM roycroft: i don't want to talk about my shop floor right now
03:27 PM roycroft: even with decent extraction, all the sawing and routing i've been doing lately has created a huge mess
03:27 PM travis_farmer853: what, are you supposed to be able to see the floor? 😉
03:28 PM roycroft: i'm not going to even start tidying up until i finish making my drawer pulls, which will probably be later on this week
03:28 PM JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp5S5ke00bE
03:39 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/shop/gantry/gantry-16.xhtml
03:39 PM JT-Shop: that's where it's parked at
03:41 PM XXCoder: travis_farmer853: once went to a bad shop. you couldnt see floor
03:42 PM XXCoder: shop was so dark and there was chips everywhere
03:42 PM XXCoder: glad I wasnt hired there lol
03:42 PM XXCoder: you can tell how good shop is to workers by lighting level and cleanness
03:43 PM travis_farmer853: OMFG! sounds hazardous to even visit there
03:43 PM XXCoder: yeah
03:43 PM roycroft: xxcoder: my first print with the gst3d blue filament went well
03:43 PM XXCoder: yeah as I predicted roy
03:43 PM XXCoder: its not best but it works well
03:43 PM roycroft: i'm doing a batch of 9 boxes now, and then probably one more batch, then i'll go back and try the silver/grey again
03:44 PM roycroft: that's the stuff that broke earlier, hopefully because of the extruder problem
03:44 PM roycroft: if that works well i'll be ready to order 30 spools
03:46 PM roycroft: the only problem is that their estimated delivery date is 11 july, and i'll be at the country fair from the 8th through the 12th
03:46 PM roycroft: but by the time i've tested the silver/grey, the delivery date may be later on anyway
03:47 PM roycroft: this is what i was trying to avoid, and the main reason i was bummed when my extruder failed
03:51 PM XXCoder: yeah dunno :) well hope your plans will work
04:01 PM JT-Shop2: 15hh is inside the shop and the door is closed...
04:03 PM travis_farmer853: time to call it a day, after that... 😉
04:04 PM roycroft: i am half finished with my cabinet drawers
04:04 PM roycroft: i have 8 of that half to install yet, but i can do that right after work today - it takes about 5 minutes per drawer
04:04 PM JT-Shop2: nice
04:04 PM roycroft: yeah, i'm happy about that
04:04 PM XXCoder: nice indeed
04:05 PM roycroft: i won't get any more done until later this week
04:05 PM roycroft: i'm almost out of finished drawer bottoms, so i need to spend a couple days applying finish to the rest
04:05 PM roycroft: then i can get back to 4/day
04:05 PM roycroft: with luck i'll be done with drawers around the 15th or 16th
04:06 PM roycroft: i still have the systainer trays to make
04:06 PM roycroft: and drawer fronts for everything
04:06 PM roycroft: the drawers are 5 pieces, with an applied drawer front
04:06 PM roycroft: the systainer trays will be four piece, with the show front being the tray front as well
04:07 PM roycroft: i need that exta 12mm of depth
04:07 PM roycroft: so i can't work on those until i buy the drawer front material, which i'll probably do later on this week
04:07 PM roycroft: but yeah, it's going prety well
04:08 PM roycroft: and i am *really* happy that i'm now taking fasteners out of the bins on the wall and putting them in boxes that live in the new drawers
04:08 PM JT-Shop2: hmm this will take a while the gantry is configured too narrow for this trailer so I have to move the legs out to the ends of the beam
04:08 PM roguish[m]: JT-Shop2: what's a 15HH ???
04:08 PM roguish[m]: the Powermatic planer?
04:10 PM roycroft: when i got my thicknesser i uncrated it on the back of my pickup, called a friend, and he and i hoisted it off the truck
04:10 PM roycroft: i was younger then
04:10 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i'd give that a go now
04:11 PM roycroft: and yes, roguish, that's what it is
04:15 PM JT-Shop2: roguish[m]: yup
04:17 PM JT-Shop2: got one leg out to the end of the beam... I really should weld a stop on the beam
04:24 PM roguish[m]: use a C-clamp, temporarily.......... better than rolling off the end........
04:32 PM * roycroft decides to give aliexpress another go
04:32 PM roycroft: my experiences with them to date are two attempted transactions, two fails that required a lot of effort on my part to secure a refund
04:32 PM roycroft: but the third time's a charm, right?!
04:32 PM XXCoder: I only had 2 failures, and I did way more orders
04:33 PM XXCoder: whats you buying off aliexpress anyway
04:33 PM XXCoder: and they have paypal now
04:33 PM roycroft: i'm getting some furniture levelers
04:33 PM roycroft: my hardware storage drawers are not going to be full, at least not initially
04:34 PM roycroft: in fact, i'm not going to fill up any of them for a while - i want to keep some space to add more storage boxes to each drawer so i'm not shuffling all of them around every time i want to add another box
04:34 PM roycroft: so i'm making some stop rods to keep the boxes from shifting to the back of the drawer whenever i open it
04:35 PM roycroft: i'm going to use some woodend dowels for that, with rubber furniture levelers on each end
04:35 PM roycroft: that's cheap and easy, and it should work well - the levelers are on threaded studs, so i can just insert one behind the boxes, and twist it until it's snug against the sides
04:36 PM roycroft: so when i found 20 levelers for $6.09 on aliexpress, vs 4 for $20 elsewhere, it was a no-brainer to give them another go
04:38 PM roycroft: even though my drawers will smell like china for a while after i install them
04:40 PM XXCoder: wouldnt know
04:40 PM XXCoder: I never smelled anything for last 46 years lol
04:42 PM JT-Shop2: roycroft: what kind of finish are you putting on the drawer bottoms?
04:45 PM roycroft: shellac
04:45 PM roycroft: it is all that i use on the inside of drawers, because it doesn't offgas
04:45 PM roycroft: i'll use tried and true varnish oil on the drawer fronts when i get to that point
04:46 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/18_First_Installed_Drawers_2.jpeg
04:46 PM JT-Shop2: thanks
04:46 PM roycroft: that is amber shellac
04:46 PM JT-Shop2: Plan #A is a fail
04:46 PM roycroft: i think it to 1#, apply 3 coats, sand lightly with P320, then apply a fourth coat
04:46 PM roycroft: thin, not think
04:47 PM XXCoder: well looks very clean
04:47 PM roycroft: i'm not taking too much care on the underside and the outsides
04:47 PM roycroft: because these are shop cabinets, and those parts won't be seen
04:47 PM JT-Shop2: looking good
04:47 PM XXCoder: sand to remove fibers lifting under shellc right?
04:47 PM roycroft: but i'm trying to make the insides look good
04:47 PM Tom_L: build a wider gantry
04:47 PM roycroft: there's not much, if any grain raising
04:48 PM roycroft: but three coats of finish will always be a little uneven
04:48 PM roycroft: it takes me like 10 seconds to sand a drawer - it's just a couple quick passes with a hand pad
04:48 PM travis_farmer853: shellac doesn't usually raise grain
04:48 PM roycroft: and then i blow the dust off with compresed air
04:49 PM roycroft: it will raise it a little bit when it's cut to 1#, because the alcohol absorbs water
04:49 PM roycroft: but just a wee bit at most
04:49 PM XXCoder: ok good to know
04:49 PM XXCoder: well out for now laters
04:49 PM travis_farmer853: later XXCoder
05:05 PM JT-Shop2: it's hanging so plan #C2 worked to get it airborn
05:05 PM JT-Shop2: e
05:07 PM Tom_L: better get rid of the other one so you have room
05:11 PM roycroft: it is time to install drawers
05:21 PM JT-Shop2: https://semo.craigslist.org/tls/d/poplar-bluff-delta-x15-planer/7492013600.html
05:21 PM JT-Shop2: the 15hh is on the ground gently
05:31 PM JT-Shop2: top's off
05:44 PM Tom_L: christmas in june
05:48 PM JT-Shop2: box is off...
05:48 PM JT-Shop2: yup
05:49 PM Tom_L: did you get the fancy blade with that one?
05:53 PM JT-Shop2: yup
05:53 PM Tom_L: you'll have to make another chute for it too
05:54 PM Tom_L: or does it come with one
05:54 PM Tom_L: oh the problems that come with new toys...
05:57 PM JT-Shop2: it comes with a side discharge chute
06:06 PM JT-Shop2: it's on the floor
06:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why do they make oxy-propane torches so complicated?
06:18 PM roycroft: half my drawers are installed now
06:19 PM roycroft: that's a pretty good milestone to have reached
06:19 PM JT-Shop2: that's awesome
06:19 PM * roycroft is happy
06:19 PM JT-Shop2: the 15hh is on the ground... clean up tomorrow
06:20 PM roycroft: i said i'm not going to take pictures every time i install drawers, but i think this is a good time for one
06:20 PM roycroft: on the ground in one piece, undamaged?
06:22 PM JT-Shop2: of course
06:22 PM JT-Shop2: I'm a master rigger
06:23 PM roycroft: i assumed so, but had to ask
06:23 PM JT-Shop2: I understand
06:25 PM JT-Shop2: I used to be amazed at the hand riggers in nuclear submarine overhaul, with a few chain falls they would move machinery through the sub like it was on rails... I paid attention
06:25 PM djdelorie: in my case, give me a few rails and I can move stuff like it's on chains
06:26 PM JT-Shop2: Tom_L: the gantry crane is wide enough, just had to move the legs out to the ends of the rail
06:27 PM JT-Shop2: https://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-gallery.xhtml
06:28 PM JT-Shop2: https://gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308.xhtml
06:28 PM JT-Shop2: some interesting unloading of machines with nothing but a come along
06:29 PM * JT-Shop2 takes 5 with Webb Pierce
06:29 PM _unreal_: ok back to milling
06:29 PM djdelorie: in my case, it usually involves an excavator: http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_2416.html
06:29 PM djdelorie: btw, I've got that same planer, it's a beast. Enjoy :-)
06:30 PM JT-Shop2: down the hatch :)
06:30 PM JT-Shop2: small excavator?
06:30 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/23_Drawers_Half_Installed.jpeg
06:30 PM roycroft: pardon the clutter
06:31 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/New_Cabinets/24_Fastener_Drawer.jpeg
06:31 PM djdelorie: yeah, a small one. We built the stairs in the bulkhead to be removable for just such a use
06:31 PM roycroft: my fastener boxes fit very nicely now
06:31 PM roycroft: i had to make them 0.010" smaller to fit like that
06:31 PM JT-Shop2: gotta make use of any flat spot in a small shop
06:31 PM djdelorie: oh, hey! That lathe is 100 years old last month :-)
06:32 PM JT-Shop2: nice
06:32 PM roycroft: i was lost when i moved the old tool cabinet out of the shop
06:32 PM JT-Shop2: I have a 100 year old stanley #5 plane
06:32 PM roycroft: all that flat surface for piling things up was gone
06:32 PM roycroft: and in case it's not clear to anyone, those drawer pulls are temporary
06:32 PM roycroft: i'll be applying nice drawer fronts to all the drawers, with the new pulls i'm making
06:32 PM JT-Shop2: my tractor is younger than me it's a `56 Ferguson F40
06:33 PM JT-Shop2: I assumed that the knobs were temp
06:33 PM roycroft: this is the fourth or fifth cabinet build on which i've used them
06:33 PM * JT-Shop2 retires to the house for the night
06:34 PM * roycroft has a board meeting tonight, but thinks he'll get a little more work done before then
06:45 PM Tom_L: djdelorie, that's an awfully small hole to fit all your toys thru
06:45 PM djdelorie: there's a full size bridgeport down there...
06:45 PM Tom_L: hope it never floods
06:45 PM djdelorie: and I'm collecting bits for a 5x10 cnc, although that's going down piecemeal
06:46 PM djdelorie: it does, a little. A few inches of water every 5-8 years or so. I deal with it
06:46 PM djdelorie: I have water alarms down there
06:52 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, fix works... but then you knew that
06:53 PM srk- is now known as srk
06:57 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: I have everything important on stilts in the basement
07:14 PM roycroft: but are your stilts on stilts?
07:14 PM roycroft: it seems to me they would be important
07:19 PM Tom_L: where to go in debian to edit the menu items?
07:20 PM Tom_L: mate
07:24 PM XXCoder: back, I am
07:45 PM _unreal_: god I wish i could mill faster.
07:45 PM XXCoder: dont think god can
07:45 PM XXCoder: only money and better machine can
07:47 PM JoseIgnacioRomer: You can mill faster if you dont care what the end result looks like
07:47 PM DigitalReaper: or if you switch materials. I hear air machines real fast
07:48 PM XXCoder: roycroft: nice work indeed. prints looks great
07:59 PM XXCoder: man
07:59 PM XXCoder: https://www.reddit.com/r/Machinists/comments/v6hplg/an_engineer_is_conceived/
07:59 PM XXCoder: that picture makes me bit nervious
07:59 PM XXCoder: theres T handle still in chuck, and I hope lathe is powered down or locked out
08:18 PM _unreal_: god.... still got two more passes
08:18 PM _unreal_: it is cutting though. I've had no chip welding
08:19 PM _unreal_: nor bit deflection.
08:20 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Slow and steady wins the race. Especially in light machines 🙂
08:27 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:36 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_VTYlBoLec
08:36 PM XXCoder: interesting. extrusions and 3d printed mill
08:55 PM roycroft: i just got an email from etsy saying they're implementing a purchase protection program
08:55 PM roycroft: i wonder if that means they're going to try to ditch or minimise the use of paypal
09:24 PM XXCoder: roy did you see that video?
09:24 PM XXCoder: paypal ditching is a possibility also. theres massive profit if you do right on payment processing.
11:07 PM Thorhian7490[m]: PayPal is both convenient for customers and a terror to sellers from what I know.
11:08 PM roycroft: there are horror stories about paypal, but i've never had a problem with it myself, and i've conducted hundreds of transactions as a seller using paypal
11:09 PM roycroft: i am one person, though, out of millions, so my experience are hardly even anecdotal
11:10 PM Thorhian7490[m]: One of the big killers is PayPal not giving back their slice of the pie when someone returns something from hat I’ve seen. It wasn’t always like that from what I know.
11:12 PM XXCoder: I used to sell so many stuff and never had issue except for only one
11:52 PM roycroft: i have not done many refund, but i've always had my paypal fees refunded when i refund money
11:52 PM roycroft: and i'd say the last time i did a refund was about a year ago
11:52 PM roycroft: so not really recent, but also not a long time ago
11:53 PM XXCoder: think retaining some fee is on seller side not sure
11:53 PM roycroft: xxcoder: when i print the boxes without supports i get a loose string or two on maybe 1/3 of the boxes, on the underside of the lip
11:54 PM roycroft: it takes like one second to snip them off when that happens
11:54 PM XXCoder: maybe on slicer, try slightly slower bridge, with bit more fan
11:54 PM roycroft: when i was printing with supports, not only would i use a lot more filament and print more slowly, i'd spend at least 2-3 minutes per box removing the supports and cleaning things up
11:55 PM roycroft: what i'm getting now is really no problem
11:55 PM XXCoder: yeah sounds like no suppory is way to go, as is
11:55 PM XXCoder: *as it is
11:55 PM roycroft: it was horrible with the old extruder when i did not add supports
11:56 PM roycroft: as in unusable boxes
11:56 PM roycroft: well, i should say, with the old extruder and old software
11:56 PM XXCoder: i remember
11:57 PM roycroft: since i can't be absolutely certain which of those changes cleaned up the lips
11:57 PM XXCoder: probably was both. bad extruder not extruding exactky at command, and old slicer having less effective bridging
11:57 PM roycroft: i think you're probably right that the extruder made the difference
11:57 PM roycroft: but the slicer software is a major rewrite
11:57 PM roycroft: whatever it is, it's working nicely for me now, and i could not be happier that i don't have to print supports
11:58 PM XXCoder: yep
11:58 PM roycroft: now when i start printing the longer boxes i may need to add supports again
11:58 PM roycroft: i'll find out when i get there
11:58 PM XXCoder: yeah.
11:58 PM roycroft: the vast majority of what i'll be printing are the ~2"x2"x2" boxes
11:58 PM roycroft: probably at least 70%