#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 03 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:07 AM Deejay: moin
01:48 AM randy: morning
02:04 AM travis_farmer853: G'Morning ☕
02:18 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:26 AM travis_farmer853: Hmm, come on discord this morning, and somehow there was posted a gif of some guy playing with his bits... 😉 how obscene, this early in the morning...
02:27 AM XXCoder: lol
05:04 AM Tom_L: morning
05:23 AM silopolis[m]: folks, for your patching hard times add `git apply --reject --whitespace=fix file.patch" followed by a "wiggle --replace file file.rej" !
05:23 AM silopolis[m]: * folks, for your patching hard times add \`git apply --reject --whitespace=fix file.patch" followed by a "wiggle --replace file file.rej" to your belt !
05:24 AM silopolis[m]: That https://linux.die.net/man/1/wiggle does wonders. Discovery of the day 🙂
06:08 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:12 AM silopolis[m]: o/
07:18 AM silopolis[m]: Is that an error or simply ignored if one puts an M61 in a program ?
07:21 AM JT-Cave: try it and see
07:27 AM Tom_L: It is an error if:
07:27 AM Tom_L: Q- is not 0 or greater
07:33 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: I am pretty sure there will also be an error if the selected tool does not exist in your tool table. At least I would expect that to be the case.
07:49 AM silopolis[m]: OK, works in a program too
07:50 AM silopolis[m]: Was asking because doc specifies "change the current tool number while in MDI or Manual mode without a tool change"
07:50 AM silopolis[m]: <ZincBoy[CAON]066> "I am pretty sure there will also..." <- Let's see...
07:54 AM silopolis[m]: Exact
07:57 AM silopolis[m]: It doesn't workk on first line though, any idea why ?
07:57 AM silopolis[m]: s/workk/work/
07:59 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: First line of the program?
08:05 AM silopolis[m]: yes
08:27 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Any error messages? Or does it just not select the right tool?
09:13 AM silopolis[m]: Just does nothing
09:39 AM ZincBoy[CAON]066: That is odd but does it work after the modal settings are done? You should always set the modal codes at the beginning of a file: G17 G20 G40 G49 G80 G90 is what I use.
09:45 AM JT-Shop: yep you should always start a G code file with a good preamble
09:45 AM * JT-Shop found a new way to get worms to come to the surface... pour 5 gallons of old wine on the ground and they come flying up
10:07 AM CloudEvil: :)
10:07 AM silopolis[m]: I do ! No worries 🙂
10:07 AM silopolis[m]: Just that was a lazzy testing
10:07 AM JT-Shop: wow my powermatic 15HH has shipped
10:20 AM Loetmichel: JT-Cave: wine or was it vinegar already?
10:46 AM unterhaus: If I had 5 gallons of old wines I would set it out so the slugs could enjoy it
10:47 AM travis_farmer853: i thought wine got better with age...
10:47 AM unterhaus: some wine was no good to begin with, but if it's opened any wine will go bad
10:48 AM unterhaus: actually not sure if slugs like wine as much as they like beer
10:48 AM travis_farmer853: well, yeah, once it is opened...
12:05 PM roycroft: spill the wine, take that worm
12:26 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:09 PM tcurdt: cooling is usually just a PWM signal, is it? so I just reserve one pin for it on the mesa?
01:09 PM * tcurdt doesn't have cooling yet
01:13 PM travis_farmer853: thinking of buying a used (in need of repair) Creality Ender 3 3D printer, and making it work...
01:14 PM roycroft: if you get it for a good price, go for it, travis_farmer853
01:15 PM travis_farmer853: $64 a good price?
01:15 PM roycroft: it's a decent little starter printer, marlin is pretty widely used, and it uses standard components - it's easy to repair/upgrade
01:15 PM roycroft: probably
01:15 PM roycroft: what does it need to make it work?
01:15 PM travis_farmer853: doesn't say
01:15 PM roycroft: the frame and stepper motors alone are worth that much
01:16 PM travis_farmer853: “Unrepair:ALL MAJOR COMPONENTS/ASSEMBLIES/PARTS INCLUDED. MAJORITY OF THE PRINTERS ARE IN WORKING ORDER OUT OF BOX. SOME HOWEVER MAY NEED TROUBLESHOOTING. "
01:16 PM roycroft: you might need to invest 10 minutes making it work
01:16 PM roycroft: you might need to invest $100 to make it work
01:17 PM XXCoder: if you dont already own a printer, id buy 2
01:17 PM roycroft: yeah, buying two if you can swing it would be good
01:17 PM travis_farmer853: all i have is $100...
01:17 PM roycroft: you'll likely get one working one and a bunch of spare parts
01:17 PM XXCoder: youre likely able to make a working one, then repair second one using working one
01:18 PM XXCoder: I always advise people to have 2 3d printers because you can repair one using other often
01:18 PM roycroft: i may get a second one soon
01:18 PM roycroft: as my cabinets come closer to being finished, i'm becoming more anxious to wanting the wall of fasteners gone soon
01:19 PM roycroft: my extruder and other parts have shipped finally, and are still due to arrive on sunday, btw
01:20 PM roycroft: so hopefully i'll be printing again on sunday night
01:20 PM XXCoder: nice
01:20 PM XXCoder: my mk3s is out of comission till I get new bed bolts
01:21 PM XXCoder: I was starting silicone mod when I realized 3 bolts on left was stripped
01:21 PM XXCoder: I managed to remove them, but its now unsecure
01:23 PM roycroft: i've thought about getting a prusa printer as my next one
01:23 PM roycroft: just to be trying out ssomething different
01:23 PM XXCoder: they recently had a price increase unfortunately
01:24 PM roycroft: the mk3s+ is over $1k
01:24 PM roycroft: my budget is not that big
01:25 PM XXCoder: my second one is a clone. $400 plus new heat break and nozzle (they use crap versions of those)
01:27 PM roycroft: there are some delta printers in the $400 range that are supposed to be pretty fast
01:27 PM roycroft: that might be fun
01:27 PM travis_farmer853: just bought it... if nothing else, i can use it to experiment with a LinuxCNC controlled 3D printer, if the control system is defuncted ... but if it is good, i will fix it and run as is 🙂
01:28 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C3FLY6P/
01:28 PM roycroft: like that
01:29 PM roycroft: the build plate looks pretty small, though
01:30 PM roycroft: oh, 255x360
01:30 PM roycroft: not too bad
01:30 PM XXCoder: yeah base looks small because its quite tall
01:30 PM roycroft: i guess it looks small because the machine has to be so tall to handle the delta motion controllers
01:31 PM roycroft: i'll have to measure my printer shelving to see if there's enough room for a printer like that
01:32 PM XXCoder: deltas is meh
01:33 PM XXCoder: you better have good probing and calculation, otherwise you'll be manually tweaking it for quite a long while
01:33 PM roycroft: they can be ery fast
01:33 PM roycroft: the one i linked to can print at up to 300mm/s
01:33 PM roycroft: i can barely push 100 on my ender5
01:34 PM roycroft: but yes, i can see that calibration is probably more fiddly than a conventional cartesian printer
01:36 PM XXCoder: want fast? id go voron
01:36 PM XXCoder: you have arc errors for one, where its not calbrated correctly so z is like a bowl
01:36 PM roycroft: i want fast but i don't want to pay for fast :)
01:37 PM XXCoder: me either.
01:37 PM roycroft: their website is horrible, too
01:40 PM * roycroft heads out to apply more shellac
01:42 PM XXCoder: yeah that website needs more shellac ;)
01:43 PM travis_farmer853: what am i going to need for software for my Ender 3, assuming i get it working...
01:43 PM XXCoder: a slicer for one. maybe program to model stuff if you want to print stuff you design
01:43 PM XXCoder: essentally thats it. cad that can export stl, and slicer to turn that stl to gcode
01:44 PM travis_farmer853: i have Fusion 360 (non-commercial, free) and Slic3r
01:58 PM travis_farmer853: Hmm, it looks like Fusion360 outputs directly for an ender 3 🙂
02:08 PM XXCoder: cool
02:18 PM roycroft: travis_farmer853 the ender printers run marlin natively, which is pretty well supported
02:18 PM roycroft: you just need a way to generate stl files, and then a slicer
02:18 PM roycroft: i've been using ultimaker cura as my slicer for my ender 5, and it's worked well for me
02:18 PM XXCoder: roy apparently fusion acts as slicer too
02:18 PM roycroft: and is free
02:18 PM roycroft: that i don't know about
02:18 PM XXCoder: me, I use prusaslicer because mk3s is prusa. theres fork called superslicer though
02:18 PM roycroft: but if that works it can save a step
02:19 PM roycroft: although i'm not sure it's as good a slicer as the dedicated slicer apps
02:19 PM XXCoder: roy wonder if fusion slicer plugin actually uses g2 and g3
02:19 PM roycroft: i've no idea sense that it's not
02:19 PM roycroft: s/idea//
02:19 PM XXCoder: since it can have models with true arcs
02:19 PM travis_farmer853: probably not...
02:19 PM roycroft: i just don't know at all
02:19 PM XXCoder: travis_farmer853: do you have fusion installed?
02:19 PM roycroft: if fusion has a slicer, and you have fusion, i'd try that out firt
02:20 PM XXCoder: if so, can you just slice a cylinder see if gcode has arcs
02:20 PM travis_farmer853: yes
02:20 PM roycroft: and then perhaps install a dedicated slicer app
02:20 PM roycroft: export the same model from fusion as stl
02:20 PM roycroft: slice it with the dedicated app
02:20 PM roycroft: print both, and complare
02:20 PM roycroft: compare
02:20 PM travis_farmer853: ok
02:21 PM roycroft: i do know that ultimaker cura has printer profiles for most of the creality line built-in, including the ender 3
02:21 PM roycroft: that saves a lot of preliminary configuration
02:21 PM roycroft: i should imagine that most slicers do as well
02:21 PM roycroft: since it's such a common platform
02:23 PM XXCoder: yeah id suggest superslicer though. its around as good as prusaslicer but less focused on prusa so theres more profiles
02:28 PM roycroft: i'm not pushing the slicer i use
02:28 PM roycroft: i'm just saying that it works and describing some of the features
02:29 PM travis_farmer853: i think my computer is a bit taxed... too many programs open, plus Fusion360 translating a STL file... LOL
02:29 PM roycroft: i don't remember why i started using it
02:30 PM XXCoder: i liked cura for my mp select mini v2
02:30 PM XXCoder: retired that machine though so doubt will use cura for a while. unless I want tree supports
02:31 PM travis_farmer853: no arcs in the Fusion360 output
02:32 PM XXCoder: aw
02:32 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: ?
02:32 PM XXCoder: so far, no slicer uses any g2 or g3
02:32 PM XXCoder: that'd compress gcode by a whole lot
02:32 PM XXCoder: AND no polyagon shape error on hole size
02:32 PM travis_farmer853: i looked for both, and saw none
02:33 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Ah, yes. I would imagine that would be difficult as the STL format they are all use is triangle based
02:34 PM XXCoder: yeah I hoped for otherwise in fusion sicne it has arcs and circles directly
02:34 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: They would need to use step or equivalent files as the source for slicing.
02:34 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Probably translates to stl and uses one of the open slicer cores at heart.
02:35 PM XXCoder: yeah
02:35 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Do any of the standard 3d printer controller even handle G2/G3?
02:35 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Just need helical interpolation for vase mode prints 🙂
02:35 PM XXCoder: depends
02:36 PM XXCoder: many internally translates g2 g3 to g1s
02:36 PM XXCoder: I want to start on bottom up, start supporting models with true arc and circles
02:36 PM XXCoder: then slicers start using g2 g3
02:36 PM XXCoder: then finally firmwares can do true arcs like linuxcnc can
02:37 PM XXCoder: note internal g2/g3 converting have much smaller segements than slicer arc via g1s tend to be
02:37 PM XXCoder: so theres still improvement
02:38 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Even linuxcnc translates arcs into linear moves. Any system that uses finite time steps will do so.
02:39 PM XXCoder: of course. anything step based its like that, though linuxcnc does something differently so its much more precision moves
02:39 PM XXCoder: it does NOT convert g2 g3 to g1 internally
02:39 PM XXCoder: i forgot the exact details
02:43 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Yes, but with fine enough g1 resolution there is no practical difference. The only advantage of G2/3 is saving gcode size and that is not something that is too relevant today. I don't turn on arc detection in my CAM and just have the resolution set to 0.0001". Makes for bigger files but the motion seems to be smoother with only G1 moves (in linuxcnc).
02:45 PM XXCoder: interesting. well I guess it depends
02:45 PM XXCoder: I remember one guy was working to add that something linuxcnc has into marlin
02:45 PM XXCoder: but silent since
03:17 PM roycroft: the issue with marlin, as with most of the embedded processor platforms, is the hassle involved with tweaking parameters
03:17 PM roycroft: with linuxcnc you just edit a file
03:17 PM XXCoder: more modern ones is better but yeah
03:17 PM roycroft: with marlin et al you have to do the edits, recomplile, and then push the new code to the controller board
03:17 PM XXCoder: my elcrapo printer is so ancient it predates martin 1.0 lol
03:17 PM XXCoder: 1.0 rc I think
03:24 PM JT-Cave: wonderful biden shut down more oil leases in the gulf and the price of gas jumped up to $4.50 in one day
03:24 PM JT-Cave: pretty soon the oil industry in the south will be shut down and millions out of work
03:25 PM Tom_L: i would think he'd do just the opposite
03:25 PM Tom_L: makes no sense
03:25 PM XXCoder: apparently, due to lack of ninterest
03:26 PM XXCoder: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/12/climate/biden-oil-gas-lease-sales.html
03:26 PM Tom_L: and he stopped the pipeline
03:27 PM Tom_L: you've reached your limit on free articles...blah blah blah
03:27 PM roycroft: the pipeline would have done nothing for this country at all, other than pollute it
03:27 PM XXCoder: and employ maybe 10 people
03:27 PM XXCoder: once build is done
03:28 PM roycroft: which it already did, the parts of it that were online
03:28 PM roycroft: 10 canadians
03:28 PM Tom_L: the already dug up half the US though putting it in
03:28 PM Tom_L: they came thru here a few months ago
03:29 PM XXCoder: honestly we need to turn away from oil.
03:29 PM Tom_L: the alternative solution will pollute just as much when the batteries are dumped
03:30 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: 127k people employed in the whole of the US oil and gas extraction industry. Don't know how a lack of interest in additional exploration would translate to millions of jobs lost.
03:30 PM roycroft: no it won't
03:30 PM XXCoder: dumped not so much. japan is recycling lathium and making them into new batteries
03:30 PM roycroft: but as much as curbing climate change is critical, we need to wean ourselves off of oil for national security reasons
03:30 PM roycroft: and that alone is a compelling argument to do so
03:30 PM XXCoder: and there is no loss of ability so more and more will recycle
03:31 PM Tom_L: we need to do alot of things that rely on us alone
03:31 PM XXCoder: roy very much so. russia have borne that out for UK
03:31 PM roycroft: yes
03:31 PM roycroft: but we don't
03:31 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Yes, oil is a limited resource. Moving to renewables just makes sense.
03:31 PM roycroft: because the big money that owns our politicians (on both sides) require globalization
03:32 PM roycroft: and they don't care about this country or its people at all
03:32 PM roycroft: so they instruct our politicians to do their bidding, and not serve the people
03:32 PM Tom_L: i doubt many ppl will want to spend their vacation at a charge station
03:33 PM XXCoder: tom charging isnt that long
03:33 PM Tom_L: hours
03:33 PM roycroft: there are very fast charging mechanisms, and they're getting faster all the time
03:33 PM roycroft: no, minutes
03:33 PM roycroft: 20 minutes right now
03:33 PM XXCoder: there was one yt channel guys who planned a long trip across 4 states
03:33 PM roycroft: which is less than a lunch break
03:33 PM Tom_L: that has to cause excessive heat
03:33 PM XXCoder: total was 3 hours for entire trip
03:33 PM JT-Shop: if you could get chips they could build electric cars...
03:33 PM XXCoder: honestly, id take bit more time with my gas car, because i want to walk around and have breaks
03:34 PM roycroft: or maybe we should just start making the chips here again, instead of depending on china for them?
03:34 PM JT-Shop: if you can get the raw materials
03:34 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Battery packs are cooled and temp controlled to deal with it. Also only fast charge to 80% to minimize issues.
03:34 PM Tom_L: i recall someone else suggesting that quite some time ago
03:34 PM JT-Shop: yes it's a good idea to make more here
03:34 PM roycroft: not anyone that matters, i'm sure
03:35 PM roycroft: anyway
03:35 PM roycroft: enough soapboxing
03:35 PM roycroft: it's friday!
03:36 PM JT-Shop: saturday here
03:36 PM JT-Shop: just got back from the river ridge winery
03:36 PM XXCoder: friday, 1 pm
03:36 PM JT-Shop: in the car that gets 45+ MPG
03:37 PM XXCoder: mines at 30 mpg.
03:37 PM roycroft: sounds like jt-shop is having another french weekend
03:37 PM XXCoder: too bad I never got that elio
03:37 PM roycroft: my prius gets between 42 and 50mpg, depending on my driving habits
03:37 PM JT-Shop: dang I need to clean up here but I have 2 more cherokee purple tomatoes to put into bigger pots
03:37 PM JT-Shop: aye we like to do that during the week to avoid crowds
03:37 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: 7mpg in the racecar 🙂
03:37 PM XXCoder: been doing yard work myself
03:38 PM roycroft: did you see me ask you about making some parts, jt-shop?
03:38 PM XXCoder: I can barley work 30 minutes or hour a day
03:38 PM JT-Shop: sunny and 80°F here
03:38 PM XXCoder: fuck this dizzyness
03:38 PM JT-Shop: yes but you had some kind of problem
03:38 PM roycroft: i was asking if you were willing and able to do so
03:38 PM roycroft: mid-july or so
03:38 PM JT-Shop: depends on the part really
03:38 PM Contract_PilotRh: Right to Repair passes in New York State
03:38 PM Contract_PilotRh: The New York state Assembly approved a new Right to Repair bill Friday by a vote of 145 to 1. The legislation, sponsored by Assembly member Patricia Fahy and state Sen. Neil Breslin, passed the state Senate earlier this week by a vote of 59 to 4, and now goes to Gov. Kathy Hochul to be signed into law.
03:39 PM roycroft: my problem is that the parts are too big to handle on my mill-drill easily
03:39 PM XXCoder: Contract_PilotRh: yes!
03:39 PM roycroft: they would be my gantry supports
03:39 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Nice!
03:39 PM roycroft: 1/2" aluminium plate
03:39 PM JT-Shop: send me the cad file
03:39 PM XXCoder: I hope for country-wide someday
03:39 PM roycroft: i don't have the final design yet, so i can't expect a quote or any detailed information
03:39 PM roycroft: i'm just asking if you might be interested right now
03:39 PM roycroft: later on this month i'll try to have the cad files
03:39 PM JT-Shop: I have lots of 6061 1/2" bars
03:40 PM JT-Shop: ok
03:40 PM roycroft: this would be bigger than bars
03:40 PM roycroft: it would require some plate
03:40 PM JT-Shop: how big?
03:40 PM Contract_PilotRh: https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/3/23153504/right-to-repair-new-york-state-law-ifixit-repairability-diy
03:40 PM roycroft: i'm thinking 12"x20" or so, maybe
03:40 PM roycroft: i honestly don't recall what my design shows currently
03:40 PM roycroft: i'll try to check it out from my gitlab server this weekend
03:41 PM XXCoder: I have a design idea that I would need laser or waterjet someday. honestly uncertain how much it would cost lol
03:41 PM XXCoder: I want to make a 3d printer shredder
03:41 PM roycroft: they would be l-shaped
03:41 PM XXCoder: *3d printed stuff
03:41 PM XXCoder: roy L shaped? no "lean back" to make sure spindle reaches all of table?
03:42 PM roycroft: it would save me a lot of time and hassle, and would be worth paying for
03:42 PM roycroft: roughly l-shaped
03:42 PM roycroft: i don't have a final design yet
03:42 PM roycroft: and i don't recall if i'm doing any lean back with the current design or not
03:43 PM JT-Shop: biggest piece of bar stock I have is 1/2" x 10" x 36"
03:44 PM * xxcoder8265[m] uploaded an image: (1312KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/AnaviZcudBLnKEMJISrzGTWd/unknown.png >
03:44 PM xxcoder8265[m]: something like this
03:44 PM roycroft: i could send you the stock, but it would probably be cheaper to pay you to source it locally
03:44 PM roycroft: anyway, this is all conceptual right now
03:44 PM roycroft: i'll touch bases with you later on, when the design is more refined, and i'm ready to schedule the build
03:44 PM JT-Shop: ok
03:45 PM roycroft: i'm trying to finish up these cabinets as fast as possible so i can move on to the cnc router
03:45 PM roycroft: with the new setup i'm using i may be able to finish and install four drawers per day instead of four drawers every two days
03:45 PM JT-Shop: understand
03:45 PM roycroft: which would put me at mid-june to get the drawers installed
03:46 PM roycroft: i still need to make a top for it, and drawer fronts, and all those damn drawer pulls
03:46 PM JT-Shop: so the 15HH has shipped so they say today in an email
03:46 PM Tom_L: ZincBoy[CAON]066, try 7 gal to the mile...
03:46 PM roycroft: but if i get the drawers installed by the 15th or so i should be able to get the rest of that done by the end of the month
03:46 PM roycroft: nice
03:46 PM Tom_L: 1/4 at a time :)
03:46 PM roycroft: does it come with a dro or will you be adding that?
03:47 PM * JT-Shop goes to get some photos of the delta 15x for craigslist... wonder what it's worth
03:47 PM XXCoder: roy if youre reffering to that picture, its just example of leaning back gantry sides
03:47 PM ZincBoy[CAON]066: Yes, drag cars are at a different level. 🙂
03:49 PM XXCoder: if I recall right, loet? upgraded his 6040s to have more lean back than stock cnc router, like mine. mine is just stright up lol
03:49 PM roycroft: i'm referring to jt-shop's new thicknesser
03:50 PM XXCoder: ahh yeah his nice one
03:53 PM Tom_L: i could probably get that size material but can't machine it
03:53 PM JT-Shop: I've had the dro for quite some time, ordered them together
03:54 PM JT-Shop: you have a surplus place close by?
03:54 PM Tom_L: yup
03:55 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/stock_index.php
03:55 PM Tom_L: have a gander
03:55 PM XXCoder: nice
03:56 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, my vmc can do X18, Y12.5 and Z16.1
03:56 PM Tom_L: drill a couple index holes
03:56 PM Tom_L: that's what i did on the sherline when i made the plates for my mill
03:57 PM Tom_L: pins
03:58 PM Tom_L: i think that yellow marked stuff is 7075
03:58 PM Tom_L: most of it is 6061
03:58 PM roycroft: ok
03:58 PM XXCoder: jt feet or mm? ;)
03:59 PM roycroft: i'll see if i can make the supports fit that footprint
04:00 PM roycroft: if not, i underestand it will cost more to reindex them partway through the job
04:00 PM roycroft: they should be able to be completely machined from one side only
04:02 PM Tom_L: there used to be a boeing surplus here until they left town
04:02 PM Tom_L: you could find Ti sheet there amongst other things
04:04 PM XXCoder: too bad :(
04:04 PM JT-Shop: if there is no critical Z milling the BP has X23.875 Y11.25
04:05 PM roycroft: there will be some counterbored holes, but nothing more z precise than that
04:07 PM Tom_L: the guy i take small welding jobs to (usually cast iron) has a fadal he said i could use any time i wanted but i never have so far
04:07 PM Tom_L: and the trees my bud has
04:07 PM Tom_L: he was trying to sell one i think
04:08 PM XXCoder: wonder which fadal
04:08 PM Tom_L: i don't remember
04:08 PM XXCoder: old one is meh but great physical controls
04:08 PM Tom_L: 6040 maybe
04:08 PM XXCoder: later version really suck on physical ui but works well
04:08 PM XXCoder: they released new one with ui that looks like old one
04:09 PM Tom_L: they're lightweight machines but do ok on aluminum
04:09 PM XXCoder: https://fadal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/4020B-II.png
04:09 PM Tom_L: i used to have a set of manuals but dunno where they are now
04:10 PM XXCoder: noticably, it has modern case and such design. but ui screen is essentally exactly same as old one I used to run before it was sold off
04:10 PM Tom_L: looks about the same to me
04:10 PM XXCoder: and damn lights is way better. old one have single blue one set way in back
04:10 PM Tom_L: except that one is clean
04:11 PM XXCoder: this https://d1wnlqtkbaqmki.cloudfront.net/gallery/5900/front-view-of-fadal-vmc-4020ht-machine.jpg
04:11 PM XXCoder: it had no chip conveyer which was great for fiberglass parts, but other jobs you have to dig chips out lol
04:13 PM JT-Shop: the bp will hold -
04:13 PM XXCoder: shitty ui version https://d1wnlqtkbaqmki.cloudfront.net/gallery/ada9/front-view-of-fadal-vmc-4020-ht-machine.jpg
04:13 PM JT-Shop: ± 0.005" on z
04:13 PM roycroft: that's good enough for counterbores
04:14 PM Tom_L: it's not goin to the moon...
04:14 PM roycroft: hopefully not
04:14 PM roycroft: unless sending it there helps get elon off the planet faster
04:19 PM solarwind: Hi guys, I'm going to be adding a free spinning top to all my commonly used standard hand screwdrivers
04:20 PM solarwind: I'm thinking of machining a bushing out of brass unless anyone can recommend a simpler/cheaper way
04:21 PM solarwind: perhaps buying a bunch of standard small deep groove ball bearings would work
04:22 PM solarwind: the force on the bearing would be entirely axial and likely much less than what the bearing is rated for
04:22 PM Tom_L: roller skate bearings are dirt cheap
04:23 PM XXCoder: yeah 10 for maybe $3?
04:23 PM solarwind: ok that makes sense
04:23 PM solarwind: but wouldn't they be too big for something like this: https://products.wera.de/en/screwdrivers_kraftform_plus__series_300_350_ph.html
04:23 PM Tom_L: or you can spend $300 a set if you want
04:24 PM solarwind: cheapest thing will be more than adequate for this purpose
04:24 PM Tom_L: rc car bearings
04:24 PM Tom_L: slot car bearings
04:24 PM Tom_L: those are tiny
04:24 PM XXCoder: plenty of smaller sizes bearings
04:25 PM solarwind: ok thanks guys, I'll do a search on amazon
04:25 PM Tom_L: take some from a hdd
04:25 PM XXCoder: literally hundred or more stndards
04:25 PM solarwind: I do salvage magnets and motors from hard drives, but the bearing is a fluid bearing
04:25 PM solarwind: wouldn't be appropriate here
04:25 PM Tom_L: on the arm?
04:26 PM Tom_L: not the spindle
04:26 PM solarwind: oh
04:26 PM solarwind: never bothered with that, I'll have to check what kind of bearing it is
04:26 PM Tom_L: small
04:26 PM solarwind: but I think your RC car suggestion is good
04:26 PM Tom_L: about the same size
04:27 PM roycroft: for bushings i'd use phospor bronze before brass
04:27 PM roycroft: it's more porous, and able to hold lubricant better
04:27 PM Tom_L: brass cap
04:28 PM Tom_L: he just want's to screw up perfectly good screwdrivers
04:28 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/practice_drawings/HDD.jpg
04:29 PM Tom_L: incidentally that was one of our assembly problems
04:30 PM solarwind: roycroft you're right, but it's insanely expensive at metalsupermarkets. It's the most expensive of all the metals they have
04:31 PM solarwind: brass is quite a bit cheaper for some round bar stock
04:31 PM solarwind: Tom_L their laser etched tips don't come in standalone 1/4" hex bit types, only in fixed screwdrivers
04:32 PM solarwind: so I can't use them in my bit holders which already have the bearing on top. It's one of those things I really really like
04:33 PM solarwind: I totally don't mind modifying their screwdriver handle and gluing a bearing onto it. Easy to turn on a lathe so I can press the bearing onto the screwdriver, then adding a nice custom machined "cap"
04:34 PM solarwind: I don't think I would mess it up, it's a pretty simple operation
04:38 PM Tom_L: hdd bearings might be too small for that
04:39 PM Tom_L: i have some here .375OD .187ID
04:40 PM Tom_L: 11 x 5mm
04:40 PM Tom_L: 9.4 x 4.7mm
05:14 PM roycroft: it is almost the weekend
07:17 PM roguish[m]: the weekend started an hour ago.............
07:18 PM XXCoder: weekend started 2 years ago for me'
07:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i like long weekends so i go by Christmas Island on Friday and Midway island on Sundays
07:32 PM roycroft: my printer parts just arrived, a couple days early
07:33 PM roycroft: that's good - i can squeeze that work in whenever i have the time over the weekend
07:33 PM XXCoder: awesome
07:33 PM roycroft: it is raining again, and the humidity is back up to 140%, so my shellac is drying slowly again
07:33 PM XXCoder: hope my printer parts arrive early too lol
07:33 PM roycroft: i may not be able to keep on my schedule
07:34 PM XXCoder: well but then its good thing, all you need to, when thristy, is wave around cup and it'll fill itself
07:34 PM roycroft: but since my new system cuts the total time in half, getting a bit behind is not as big a deal as it would have been
07:36 PM roycroft: i'm kind of pushing things a bit - one of the originally unplanned benefits of my new cabinet will be drawer for hand tool storage
07:36 PM roycroft: i have two roll-around drawer units that hold hand tools now, always intended to be temporary
07:37 PM roycroft: i was going to build a nice wall-mount cabinet for them, but then decided on lumber storage on that wall, so i designed in an additional 10 drawers at the tops of the cabinets to hold hand tools
07:37 PM roycroft: the roll-around units are always in the way, and one of them is almost inaccessible, making it very difficult and time-consuming to get tool out of it
07:37 PM roycroft: as of today, both of them are almost empty :)
07:40 PM XXCoder: awesome
07:40 PM XXCoder: so yoiu can fill em again with new tools ;)
07:41 PM roycroft: no, they are going away asap
07:41 PM XXCoder: id suggest keep one, for "local temp tool cart"
07:41 PM XXCoder: you place stuff in it, and move it to area youre working at
07:41 PM roycroft: i still have not finished the top drawers for the new cabinets, so i've not been able to clear them out completely
07:41 PM XXCoder: unless shop is tiny then meh
07:42 PM roycroft: the shop is tiny
07:42 PM roycroft: my workbench is with arm's reach of the new cabinets
07:42 PM roycroft: so i *am* storing the tools where i'll be working
07:42 PM roycroft: they're actually closer to the workbench now than they were win the roll-around carts
07:42 PM XXCoder: nice indeed
07:43 PM roycroft: yeah, i'm glad it took me about 15 years to build these
07:43 PM roycroft: the design just kept getting better and better :)
07:44 PM Tom_L: procrastination wins again!
07:44 PM roycroft: it does!
07:44 PM roycroft: even though this was not intentional procratination
07:45 PM roycroft: it was more a case of designing them, then realizing that a new feature or a changed feature would be better, redoing the design, etc.
07:45 PM roycroft: i went through at least a dozen iteration before i got to the current design
08:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so who is going to be the next LCNC admins?
08:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: any volunteers?
08:27 PM XXCoder: being admin of discord server and op on irc is enough for me
08:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sure, but we need to find a few
08:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: jepler isn't happy with having to still deal with site hosts and similar
08:28 PM XXCoder: if I was perfectly fine I'd probably work on that stuff. I do have IT background, if bit rusty
08:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and we could use someone to setup a contribution system for funds to pay for hosts
08:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lots of people are willing to donate a few $/mo
08:29 PM roycroft: i would be happy to handle some of the hosting duties
08:29 PM roycroft: and also to donate money to the cause
08:29 PM XXCoder: be sure to have $1 a month option, id go for that
08:29 PM XXCoder: patreon
08:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT is probably already off for the day
08:30 PM roycroft: i looked into that, and $1/month would net about $0.40 for the cause
08:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and Tom might be interested in some part
08:30 PM roycroft: i was trying to figure out microdonations, and they benefit paypal et al. more than the folks accepting the donations
08:31 PM XXCoder: $1 tier would be literally no benefit level. maybe something like $5 for listing names at patreon page list
08:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah with the credit card payment legal skimming processing administrative and just because we deserve it fees
08:31 PM roycroft: yes
08:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah they get you for each transaction
08:31 PM roycroft: right
08:32 PM roycroft: so $12/year is a lot better than $1/month
08:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so $6 for 6 months min
08:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah
08:32 PM roycroft: there's a transaction fee + percentage
08:32 PM roycroft: the percentage stays the same, but 1 transaction fee vs 12 transaction fees is good
08:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and currency conversion fees
08:32 PM roycroft: and fee calculation fees
08:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: since half the users are spread out over the EU, Australia and Asia
08:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: our local gas co dropped all the CC processing fees for making payments, and instead just raised everyones rates
08:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pure genius
08:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cause people are just fucking stupid
08:35 PM roycroft: well it makes sense, because virtually everyone pays with cc these days anyway
08:36 PM roycroft: it would be better to have raised the rates and then implemented a cash discount
08:36 PM roycroft: for low income folks who pay in person with cash
08:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: OK so we have to make an announcement on the Dev list to see who wants to do what
08:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we are currently running headless
08:36 PM roycroft: if you need money let me know
08:37 PM roycroft: if you need someone with hosting experience and a willingness to help with that, let me know
08:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: soon it will be headless with spite
08:37 PM roycroft: if you need someone who knows joomla really well, that's not me so much
08:37 PM roycroft: i haven't touched joomla in many years
08:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i know some one paid all the hosting fees for the .org and the wiki a few years in advance
08:38 PM roycroft: but keeping the website going, mailing list going, making sure thing are backed up, etc - that's what i do for a living
08:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sounds like that is down to a few months right now
08:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah
08:38 PM roycroft: i offered money a year ago, when the topic came up then
08:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i forget who the host is
08:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I only have a few questions for you before I nominate you
08:39 PM roycroft: look like new dream, in canada
08:39 PM roycroft: as in dreamhost
08:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: are you planning on dying anytime in the next few years?
08:39 PM roycroft: that is not my intent
08:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: can you perform your duties for the next few years?
08:40 PM roycroft: i made a ten year committment to the country fair a year ago to be a board officer
08:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok
08:40 PM Tom_L: would be better to have someone with IT background or such which i am not
08:40 PM roycroft: i would not make the offer if i did not intend to perform the job for several years
08:41 PM roycroft: transistions can be challenging
08:41 PM roycroft: best to avoid too many of them
08:41 PM Tom_L: jepler has the torch so he would likely be the decision maker
08:41 PM roycroft: however, i should make it really clear that i do not do much coding thse days
08:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Jepler doesn't sound happy so, why should he be burdened any longer?
08:41 PM roycroft: so if custom code needs to be written for the website/forum, i'm probably not the person for that
08:42 PM Tom_L: jt has done alot for the community but i don't know if he want's or has the time
08:42 PM Tom_L: (since he is retired) !
08:42 PM roycroft: if keeping it running, doing os/cms updates/patches is needed, taht's what i do
08:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i think it just needs the occasional updates and any fixes that come with them
08:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: been pretty much running the same for years
08:42 PM roycroft: it would be best to have two people handling it
08:43 PM Tom_L: not my field of expertice
08:43 PM roycroft: while i do not intend to die any time soon, i'm at an age where i can't guarantee that
08:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there were some attackers a few years ago with sql injection stuff
08:43 PM roycroft: even if i were a youngster, stuff happens
08:43 PM Tom_L: nor is anyone else
08:43 PM roycroft: buses hit young people
08:43 PM Tom_L: so do bullets
08:43 PM Tom_L: sad but true
08:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but it pretty much works as is even with instructions in how to login and modify the wiki
08:44 PM roycroft: if jepler has been doing this by himself all along, that is probably a contributor to his unhappiness
08:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not much spam
08:44 PM Tom_L: i think it should be a shared thing between 2 or more
08:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lots of people will help if asked
08:44 PM roycroft: i'd like to know how much time per week jepler invests in it before making a firm committment
08:44 PM roycroft: but i'm quite willing to help out as i can
08:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why that should go out to the dev list for discussion
08:44 PM roycroft: i've learned a lot from this community over the years
08:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: see who is willing to do what
08:45 PM roycroft: and i'd like to give back, in the best way that i can
08:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but passing up people willing to make regular donations is silly
08:45 PM roycroft: but right now, i need to go make pizza
08:45 PM * Tom_L appoints CaptHindsight[m] to light the fire
08:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there is a LCNC board of directors
08:46 PM Tom_L: i know
08:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: never looked into how official any of it is
08:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: actual LLC or similar
08:47 PM roycroft: i'm already on one board of directors, and that consumes at least 10 hours/week of my time
08:47 PM Tom_L: when it comes to things like changing names from emc to linuxcnc they come alive
08:47 PM roycroft: i'm not willing to be on another right now :)
08:47 PM roycroft: i am on the emc-users list, not the dev list
08:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: heh, LCNC board hasn't met in years
08:47 PM roycroft: if that's where it's going to be discussed perhaps i should join that list
08:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 10 hours maybe since 2015
08:48 PM Tom_L: i've been on a couple and mostly there for name sake
08:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: when machinkit spun off there were some regular meetings
08:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so 2013
08:48 PM Tom_L: was that the year of 'the fest' ?
08:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah
08:49 PM Tom_L: damn time flies
08:49 PM roycroft: ok, i've subbed to the dev list
08:49 PM roycroft: and just got my welcome spam
08:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: baptized by the spammer, the father of the spammer and holy spammer
08:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: with bacon
08:50 PM Tom_L: sprinkled or immersion?
08:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: depends on how much spam you get
08:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: neck deep vs a shower
08:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i think the position does require a silly hat or head covering
08:52 PM Tom_L: must wear a 'chips' suit to all meetings
08:53 PM XXCoder: wow there should be a meeting soonish
08:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: what is the best payment system to accept donations?
08:53 PM XXCoder: nearly a decade is kind of eg
08:53 PM roycroft: i'm really not sure
08:53 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], let met give you my square acct...
08:53 PM roycroft: paypal is pretty expensive - i thought they had a cheaper micropayment program, but apparently not
08:53 PM XXCoder: for ease for people, patreon is fine, even if bit lossy at lower tiers
08:54 PM XXCoder: im patreon supporter of few people
08:54 PM roycroft: i don't know how expensive patreon is, but i'm willing to check it out
08:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why is this not a thing already?
08:54 PM roycroft: i've heard they keep 50%
08:54 PM roycroft: which is a lot
08:54 PM XXCoder: https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/360027674431-What-fees-can-I-expect-as-a-creator- roycroft
08:54 PM roycroft: capthindsight: i'll spend a little time researching it over the weekend
08:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Go Fund Yourself!
08:55 PM * roycroft really does need to make pizza right now
08:55 PM Tom_L: Go Fuxx Yourself!
08:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Donation Wazoo
08:56 PM XXCoder: not too bad from what i read
08:56 PM Tom_L: maybe they'll collect enough to purchase a virtual cnc
08:56 PM XXCoder: platform fee https://www.patreon.com/pricing
08:57 PM XXCoder: 8% if you want tiers
08:57 PM Tom_L: plus payment processing
08:57 PM XXCoder: plus another few $ on processing, and payout
08:57 PM XXCoder: %
08:58 PM XXCoder: micropayment is 5% plus 10 cent. under $5. not too bad really
08:58 PM XXCoder: errm under $3
08:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so for $3 payment they keep 25 cents
08:59 PM Tom_L: transferred to a bank that charges what?
08:59 PM XXCoder: tom look at my earlier link
09:00 PM XXCoder: platform fees, pay processing fee, then payout. VAT if in applicable countries
09:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: " receive monthly auto payouts from your creator balance via direct deposit, PayPal, or Payoneer."
09:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: can dreamhost get direct deposits?
09:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: otherwise there are more just because fees
09:03 PM Tom_L: https://help.dreamhost.com/hc/en-us/articles/215202667-Making-a-payment
09:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so due to the fees you have to make big lump multi-month/year payents
09:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so maybe we should have a LCNC drive where everybody dumps in a few $ at the same time, then make one payment to dreamhost
09:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or if monthly really works best for many then we collect over time and then still only pay dreamhost every few months or yearly
09:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: otherwise we pay the CC processor too much
09:08 PM roycroft: i'd like to see the current financials
09:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: too much is relative but we aren't talking large sumes of $
09:08 PM roycroft: which are basically how much dreamhost costs per month
09:08 PM roycroft: then i can put some payment options in a spreadsheet and figure out what makes sense
09:09 PM roycroft: pizza is in the oven btw
09:09 PM roycroft: so i have a five minute break
09:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Jepler mentioned the current state of the balance available
09:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: check the backlog or message him
09:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: jepler#1088
09:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: digitalocean hosting costs for forum.linuxcnc.org will go up I think by about $2.20/month starting next month. Is nbd. https://www.digitalocean.com/try/new-pricing -- not actually sure what will happen, as we have a discontinued droplet type (basic, 1vCPU, 30GB storage)
09:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.digitalocean.com/try/new-pricing
09:15 PM XXCoder: if we round up, its $12 monthly
09:15 PM XXCoder: transfer amount is not menioned
09:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: jepler#1088
09:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Was getting e-mails that the forum machine's storage was nearly fully, tidied some things, but eventually we'll have so many attachments we have to go to a higher disk size on digitalocean.
09:18 PM XXCoder: very interesting https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/02/nuclear-waste-us-could-power-the-us-for-100-years.html
09:20 PM Tom_L: more importantly, what will happen when seb decides it's time?
09:21 PM roycroft: i already discussed a few days ago the option of using amazon s3 storage for some of that stuff
09:21 PM Tom_L: what stuff? the forum?
09:22 PM roycroft: i'm working on that for some wp sites that we host right now
09:22 PM roycroft: and found a joomla plugin to deal with s3
09:22 PM roycroft: files, not posts
09:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok message sent to dev list
09:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: ask Jon Elson about it
09:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://pico-systems.com/
09:26 PM XXCoder: deccan international?
09:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: nuclear waste
09:34 PM roycroft: a former perennial candidate for congress in my district advocates for adding small amounts of nuclear waste to the foundations of homes, claiming that the low level radiation it emits is beneficial for one's health
09:34 PM roycroft: this is the guy who used to send me postcards asking me to send him my pee
09:35 PM Tom_L: maybe he wanted to test for radiation
09:35 PM roycroft: i respectfully declined doing so every time
09:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: send, show up in person to collect
09:35 PM XXCoder: attend golden showers and collect
09:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: attracts lots of fetishists doesn't it?
09:36 PM Tom_L: https://triviahappy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/calvinpeeingsecond.jpg
09:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wow I haven't seen that in years
09:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wasn't that 80's or a 90's thing?
09:37 PM roycroft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Robinson
09:37 PM roycroft: he is a state senator now
09:37 PM Tom_L: i've seen recent ones
09:37 PM XXCoder: i think peeing calvin creator was sued for ripping off calvin
09:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://triviahappy.com/articles/the-tasteless-history-of-the-peeing-calvin-decal
09:42 PM roycroft: and he is still asking people to send him their pee
09:42 PM roycroft: http://www.oism.org/Sample_Bank_A_34_Final_With_Bleed2.pdf
09:42 PM Tom_L: was he friends with hughes?
09:43 PM Tom_L: although hughes collected his own
09:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: maybe he is from a planet where they use pee as money?
09:44 PM Tom_L: fuel
09:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC fundraiser swap meet and bake sale
09:48 PM * Tom_L puts roycroft in charge of pizza by the slice
09:49 PM Tom_L: it would have to be held on a friday though
09:54 PM roycroft: i'm not that rigid
09:54 PM roycroft: in fact, every night could be pizza night
09:54 PM roycroft: worse things have happened in the history of humanity
10:10 PM * xxcoder8265[m] uploaded an image: (606KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/jauriarts.org/EUtpXkNtsfDOzulsWOMkbRoK/unknown.png >
10:10 PM xxcoder8265[m]: what a horror of a picture lol
10:11 PM XXCoder: that guy is about to die
10:13 PM unterhaus: I was wondering if he bent the drill bit, but it's tapered, so possibly not bent
10:13 PM unterhaus: tapered shank
10:13 PM unterhaus: in a chuck
10:16 PM XXCoder: honestly more places you look at, more wrong you see
10:17 PM XXCoder: for example, he look posed to chank on Y axis. not good axis for drilling
10:18 PM XXCoder: could be wrong, not too familiar with that machine model
10:31 PM roycroft: that drill looks bent to me
10:32 PM roycroft: but it could just be the way the chuck is holding it
10:32 PM roycroft: there is absolutely nothing right about that photo except the hard hat
10:32 PM roycroft: which in this circumstance will provide zero protection
10:34 PM * roycroft just glued up some more drawers
10:35 PM roycroft: this routine is starting to get old already :)
10:42 PM XXCoder: roy yeah think drill is just place and not tightened, nor is chuck
10:58 PM roycroft: maybe he's using it as a wiggler to try to line up the spindle with the bore hole locatin
10:58 PM XXCoder: interesting idea since part is insecure lol
10:59 PM roycroft: he's going to bump the part around until it lines up and then clamp it
10:59 PM roycroft: because the table is so rusty it's frozen in place
11:01 PM XXCoder: indeed lol
11:02 PM XXCoder: "ok grab me some handsome modeler, machines is always rusty, get picture of that, chuicks is always used in machines. must have some bigass drill in chuck and some guy looking at it and working on machine"
11:02 PM XXCoder: "STAT!"