#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 30 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:54 AM Deejay: moin
05:53 AM Tom_L: morning
06:03 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:55 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:55 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:59 AM solarwind: Good morning!
09:00 AM solarwind: Bedding for small animals like pet rats is overpriced, so I use wood chips from non pressure treated wood
09:00 AM solarwind: What's a good way to make wood chips that are not as fine as saw dust from a mitre saw or something, but still small enough to have good surface area for absorption?
09:01 AM solarwind: That is, it shouldn't be a breathing hazard for the animal.
09:02 AM solarwind: So anything larger than 0.5mm in diameter is good.
09:02 AM solarwind: Like the size of cat litter granules is good. I actually use that as a substrate, but the top layer should be something soft like shredded paper or wood
09:03 AM solarwind: I have a helical cutter jointer and a bunch of other standard woodworking power tools, but all ideas are welcome
10:35 AM * JT-Shop2 considers using mortise and tenon joints for the rails of my wood rack with locking pegs
11:48 AM JT-Shop: roycroft, https://imagebin.ca/v/6fYF7UGBjU1g
11:50 AM roycroft: is that your lumber rack?
12:31 PM t4nk_freenode: there.. a short rest up, then a bite to eat... and then on to the thing I love most in life;
12:31 PM t4nk_freenode: cutting and drilling square tube.
12:37 PM t4nk_freenode: youknow, having that santa's little helper branded on me.. is nice and all, but you aint no man until you cut at least the circumference of 20 football fields worth of square tubing
12:38 PM t4nk_freenode: I need 16 pieces and 40 holes tonight
12:38 PM * roycroft needs to make a router sled today and flatten some slabs
12:40 PM t4nk_freenode: omg, I need more than 40 holes
12:46 PM unterhaus: I would like to commend the intern that recommended that the giant machining center be the model A55
12:47 PM unterhaus: https://www.facebook.com/SoldTiger/photos/pcb.5368018649886921/5368017943220325
12:47 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, yes
12:48 PM unterhaus: the problem with lumber racks is you can never figure out what wood you have. OTOH, the alternative is not having enough lumber
12:49 PM JT-Shop: that's the problem I have so much lumber I need an efficient storage rack for pieces longer than 24"
12:49 PM roycroft: i don't have too much lumber - more like not enough
12:50 PM roycroft: but i have no good way to store it currently
12:50 PM roycroft: which is why my inventory is low
12:50 PM roycroft: all this will change very soon, though:)
12:50 PM JT-Shop: me too, I have a 36" diameter white oak to cut down
12:50 PM XXCoder: jt you should make that thing that guy made. seems very effecient lumber storage. lemme find that video
12:50 PM roycroft: i'll probably just get racks like this:
12:50 PM roycroft: https://www.rockler.com/rockler-lumber-rack
12:51 PM roycroft: two sets of those should do it
12:51 PM roycroft: i just bought a shelving unit for shorts, and i keep that in a climate controlled part of the house
12:51 PM roycroft: but my longer pieces are just stacked up against a wall, and i constantly trip over htem
12:52 PM * roycroft gets bus
12:52 PM roycroft: y
12:52 PM roycroft: did you get the link to the tunes, jt-shop?
12:53 PM XXCoder: JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYW2PfVQCWo
12:53 PM roycroft: in case you didnt:
12:53 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Steve_Winwood_and_Tito_Puente_1998-07-18_Hamburg,_Germany-Westport_Festival/
12:53 PM XXCoder: its two parter
12:54 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, no
12:54 PM JT-Shop: thanks
12:56 PM JT-Shop: got them now
12:58 PM JT-Shop: the tenon is 2" high and full width of the 2x4
12:59 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxhhckcS4xY is part 2 of wood shed
01:00 PM JT-Shop: the lead in photo the screws are not used correctly
01:01 PM XXCoder: first or second?
01:03 PM JT-Shop: the one you just posted
01:03 PM XXCoder: part 1 or 2?
01:04 PM JT-Shop: the last one you posted
01:04 PM XXCoder: oh lol ok lemme look
01:04 PM JT-Shop: unless you just want the tin to leak water inside
01:05 PM XXCoder: at what time?
01:05 PM JT-Shop: o:oo
01:06 PM XXCoder: talking about roof?
01:06 PM XXCoder: he makes that in part 1
01:06 PM XXCoder: he does menion that hes not great gutter installer
01:09 PM XXCoder: unless its something else, im not really seeing anything problemic lol
01:11 PM JT-Shop: the first photo before the video starts, the screws are in the wrong place, you never screw tin through the crest.... screws go in the center of the valley
01:12 PM XXCoder: isnt highest points better since water would go into valleys
01:12 PM XXCoder: oh I see it. on sides right? not roof
01:12 PM JT-Shop: no, it's the worst place because you can't compress the rubber washer without crushing the tin
01:13 PM roycroft: with a corrugated metal roof that is correct
01:13 PM roycroft: when using fiberglass roofing panels you put wavy support boards underneath the panels, and screw through the ridges
01:13 PM JT-Shop: my buddies shop constantly leaks
01:14 PM JT-Shop: yep fiberglass roofing with supports is different, most even have holes in the support showing you where to put the screw
01:14 PM XXCoder: interesting. jt thanks :D
01:14 PM JT-Shop: interesting that on clear panels only one side is uv resistant... put it on upside down and it don't last long
01:15 PM XXCoder: it dont seem to have caused him any issues so far.
01:15 PM XXCoder: i think it does help that it has foot long overhangs on all sides except back
01:16 PM XXCoder: so walls is almost always in rain shadow
01:20 PM unterhaus: I always hesitate to watch woodworking videos, lots of dangerous stuff
01:20 PM unterhaus: didn't "stumpy nubs" have a serious injury not that long ago?
01:21 PM XXCoder: that guy is usually great
01:21 PM unterhaus: his name was a joke, until it wasn't
01:21 PM XXCoder: I dont watch guys who are too careless
01:21 PM unterhaus: I think it was him, maybe someone else. but then he got to make a video about safety
01:23 PM unterhaus: yes, it was him. He has a series of videos about how to cut off your middle finger
01:28 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, that's what silicone caulk is for...
01:28 PM Tom_L: .. for the dummies that don't know better
01:28 PM Tom_L: and
01:28 PM Tom_L: they sell _alot_ of it
01:29 PM Tom_L: unterhaus, i would think he'd only have a couple chances to get that one right
01:30 PM unterhaus: point taken, but if I cut off my middle finger it might take me more than one video to process my loss
01:30 PM unterhaus: I worked with a guy that cut off his index finger and now wishes he hadn't had it put back on
01:30 PM unterhaus: he had some other serious injury on a shaper first.
01:33 PM JT-Shop2: I stop watching a video as soon as I know they don't know what they are doing, the video starts with a wiz bang entry, their face is in the camera, they wave their hands all the time etc
01:33 PM XXCoder: jt yep, some "restore" videos is so bad lol
01:33 PM XXCoder: guy I linked to generally isnt that bad, and makes awesome stuff
01:38 PM Tom_L: don't make excuses for morons :)
01:38 PM Tom_L: he probably just got lucky on the good one
01:38 PM XXCoder: huh?
01:38 PM Tom_L: oh nevermind.. i'm just messin
01:38 PM XXCoder: im not talking about same guy as one unterhaus menioned
01:38 PM XXCoder: oh lol
01:40 PM JT-Shop2: hmm I'm guessing I need to cut the tenons first?
01:46 PM Tom_L: maybe easier to fit the tenon to the mortise
01:47 PM t4nk_freenode: *brr*
01:47 PM t4nk_freenode: quarter way done cutting...
01:47 PM t4nk_freenode: think I might have to adjust my plans ;)
01:47 PM JT-Shop: going to cut the tenons on the bandsaw
01:48 PM t4nk_freenode: thought I could do the entire base tonight... maybe half if I'm lucky, and I don't even think I'll quite make that
01:49 PM Tom_L: so those skills USA competetions my kids have been in..
01:50 PM Tom_L: youngest went again this year and took gold at state so they get to fly to Atlanta for the nationals
01:50 PM Tom_L: last year they took a van
01:50 PM JT-Shop: nice
01:50 PM t4nk_freenode: did they get arrested for that?
01:50 PM Tom_L: maybe private jet since they have so much equipment etc to take
01:51 PM t4nk_freenode: what skills is that btw?
01:51 PM Tom_L: https://www.skillsusa.org/competitions/skillsusa-championships/
01:52 PM Tom_L: he took 3rd nationwide last year
01:52 PM Tom_L: well last time.. covid n all they skipped some
01:54 PM Tom_L: 2020 was in Louisville
01:54 PM t4nk_freenode: kewl
01:54 PM t4nk_freenode: I saw a girl peer over a center punch as if probing a diamond
01:55 PM t4nk_freenode: I saw 3 centerpunches in that movie though
01:55 PM t4nk_freenode: 1x automatic, and 2x manual ;)
01:55 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't wanna be in the center
01:55 PM t4nk_freenode: I wouldn't want to be in that competition, lol, I'd be the laughing stock
01:56 PM t4nk_freenode: yet I can't help but feel that crafts are a dying art
01:56 PM t4nk_freenode: real crafts that is
01:57 PM t4nk_freenode: and ironically, try as I may... I'm probably gonna be the last nail in the coffin ;)
01:58 PM Tom_L: Automated Manufacturing was what he competed in
01:58 PM Tom_L: 3 person team, drafter, programmer, operator
01:59 PM t4nk_freenode: gotta rush and continue cutting
02:29 PM t4nk_freenode: ok, half way done cutting, that's enough saw for tonight
02:32 PM t4nk_freenode: good thing too; this chunk of steel was plowing half way through the sole of my foot
02:33 PM t4nk_freenode: didn't cut through, but it sure feels nice now that it's out
02:33 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
02:40 PM t4nk_freenode: ok, best continue; filing, marking, drilling
02:59 PM t4nk_freenode: mmmm done! guess I'm making progress there too
02:59 PM t4nk_freenode: .. I'll stop blogging now :|
03:00 PM t4nk_freenode: euhhhh, I meant the marking is done
03:00 PM t4nk_freenode: lol, now drilling
03:09 PM JT-Shop2: tenons are all done...
03:10 PM * JT-Shop2 ponders how to layout and cut the mortises
03:23 PM unterhaus: I always cut tennons first, so you might want to do it the other way
03:41 PM JT-Shop2: I can cut the tenons more accurate than the mortises so I did them firs
03:52 PM t4nk_freenode: it looks like a busy night tonight then ;)
03:52 PM t4nk_freenode: I got the holes in the plywood base left to mark and drill
03:53 PM t4nk_freenode: I wanna use m4 bolts, not sure if I can drill the holes with m3
03:54 PM t4nk_freenode: would be nice if they had a tight fit
03:55 PM t4nk_freenode: anyhow, should be able to mount one y axis after this
04:07 PM t4nk_freenode: gonna buy me some decent saw blades tomorrow before I start
04:07 PM t4nk_freenode: see how that works out
04:08 PM t4nk_freenode: kind of excited about that, seeing how buying the more expensive drill bits made a huge difference
04:12 PM t4nk_freenode: mmmm you know what... I'm gonna buy a decent hand saw altogether! lol, just realised that a comfortable grip would be nice too
04:17 PM unterhaus: the previous owner of the house used epoxy to weatherproof the double doors in the basement
04:17 PM unterhaus: they didn't put it in straight, so the epoxy has to go
04:17 PM unterhaus: Hopefully an oscillating tool works
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: how thick is the epoxy?
04:47 PM JT-Shop: while I did cut an acceptable mortise it took way too long for this project... cnc time
04:47 PM CaptHindsight: sand or plane your way though it
05:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: testing 1 2 3
05:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: bridge test
05:34 PM TurBoss: CaptHindsight: hello
05:34 PM TurBoss: i managed to join with my main account
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: yay \0/
05:35 PM TurBoss: I'll try to bridge
05:35 PM TurBoss: or wan't you?
05:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: be my guest
05:35 PM TurBoss: !discord bridge 970073318357078036 970073318810075149
05:35 PM TurBoss: your turn
05:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: from matrix?
05:36 PM TurBoss: yes from here copy and paste what i typed
05:36 PM TurBoss: TurBoss: this
05:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: !discord bridge 970073318357078036 970073318810075149
05:37 PM TurBoss: hmmmm
05:37 PM TurBoss: sek plz
05:37 PM TurBoss: 970073318357078036 970073318810075149
05:37 PM TurBoss: they are the same
05:39 PM TurBoss: !discord help
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: ..
05:49 PM XXCoder: need to fix bunch of stuff heh
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: heh >5 minute lag from libera to matrix
05:59 PM TurBoss: !discord bridge 970073318357078036 970073318810075149
05:59 PM TurBoss: CaptHindsight: plz could you try now
05:59 PM TurBoss: the other side is ready
06:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: !discord bridge 970073318357078036 970073318810075149
06:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sent
06:01 PM TurBoss: hurray!
06:01 PM TurBoss8676[m]: test
06:01 PM TurBoss: I'm sorry for the noise
06:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 👍️
06:02 PM CaptainHindsight: ok it works from Discord to Matrix to Libera!
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: \0/
06:05 PM CaptHindsight: a bit of a lag from Libera to Matrix, ~5 minutes at times
06:08 PM CaptHindsight: Turboss: maybe 5 minute lag from Libera to Matrix
06:09 PM CaptHindsight: near instyant to Discord
06:09 PM CaptHindsight: instant even
06:09 PM TurBoss: 😕
06:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and some messages from Libera don't make it to Matrix (sent from matrix)
06:10 PM CaptHindsight: sent from Libera
06:11 PM CaptainHindsight: (sent from Discord)
06:12 PM Tom_L: CaptainHindsight, what else does the bot do?
06:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: (sent from Matrix)
06:13 PM CaptHindsight: Turboss might know
06:13 PM Tom_L: !discord help
06:13 PM Tom_L: stupid bot
06:13 PM Tom_L: !discord list
06:13 PM TurBoss: is a bridge that relays messages from here to a discord room
06:13 PM Tom_L: i did you idiot!
06:13 PM * JT-Shop2 has a happy mortise and tenon joint now
06:14 PM Tom_L: just how happy?
06:14 PM JT-Shop2: very happy
06:14 PM Tom_L: :)
06:14 PM JT-Shop2: smooth and tight
06:14 PM TurBoss: \o/
06:14 PM Tom_L: heh
06:14 PM JT-Shop2: very little hand work to finish now
06:14 PM CaptHindsight: leaves Libera
06:14 PM Tom_L: it just gets worse
06:14 PM JT-Shop2: hey TurBoss
06:14 PM TurBoss: hello JT-Shop2
06:15 PM JT-Shop2: how's it going over there?
06:15 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop2, did you see the runners i added to the mold?
06:15 PM JT-Shop2: no
06:15 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/reindeer/mold/Reindeer_mold13.jpg
06:16 PM Tom_L: worth a shot i guess
06:16 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/reindeer/mold/Reindeer_mold12.jpg
06:16 PM JT-Shop2: interesting
06:16 PM Tom_L: 2 round pockets are where the screws push to separate it
06:17 PM Tom_L: instead of using pushers
06:18 PM JT-Shop2: might as well learn the terminology the things that push the part out are called ejector pins
06:18 PM Tom_L: :)
06:19 PM Tom_L: since it's not a full blown mold i thought i'd try that
06:19 PM Tom_L: i've done it for other things in the past with success
06:19 PM JT-Shop2: might get the wood rack done tomorrow now that it only takes 5 minutes to make the mortise
06:19 PM TurBoss: JT-Shop2: fine
06:19 PM JT-Shop2: how does he inject the plastic
06:20 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/sumo_files/mold4.jpg
06:20 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/sumo_files/mini_wheel1.jpg
06:20 PM JT-Shop2: TurBoss: finally spring here with no more chance of freezing
06:20 PM TurBoss: awesesome moulds
06:20 PM Tom_L: i used that to make those wheels
06:20 PM TurBoss: nice!
06:21 PM Tom_L: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1230648.jpg
06:21 PM Tom_L: he's working on making some sort of PLA injector
06:21 PM Tom_L: using a coil and eddy current to heat it
06:21 PM JT-Shop2: you made the aluminum part?
06:21 PM Tom_L: i made the stuff on my page yes
06:21 PM Tom_L: the reindeer and the wheel hub
06:22 PM * JT-Shop2 thinks it's time to stop for today and relax
06:22 PM Tom_L: i redid the first half of the mold because quite frankly it was fugly
06:23 PM JT-Shop2: that's pretty bad lol
06:23 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/reindeer/mold/Reindeer_mold3.jpg
06:23 PM Tom_L: you gotta admit that looks shabby
06:23 PM Tom_L: first attempt
06:23 PM JT-Shop2: the narrow lines look better
06:23 PM Tom_L: that's .020" stepover with a .0625 ballnose
06:24 PM JT-Shop2: took me 4 attempts to get the mortise code correct
06:24 PM Tom_L: i told him to polish it but he seems to like the pattern
06:25 PM JT-Shop2: the pattern looks like fur sorta
06:25 PM Tom_L: yeah i suppose
06:25 PM Tom_L: the ring on the back is to hang like a xmas tree ornament etc
06:26 PM JT-Shop2: in Commerce MO a lady has a christmas store you would not believe
06:26 PM Tom_L: or in a window for the sun to shine thru
06:26 PM JT-Shop2: they have over 100 christmas trees decorated in a different theme
06:26 PM Tom_L: wow
06:27 PM JT-Shop2: they take it down every year and make them over again
06:27 PM JT-Shop2: my partner was from Commerce and used to mow her grass
06:27 PM Tom_L: every year at our state fair they have a sculpture made from butter: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=kansas+state+fair+butter+sculpture
06:27 PM Tom_L: there are a few
06:28 PM Tom_L: nothing but butter :)
06:28 PM JT-Shop2: how do they keep them from melting
06:28 PM Tom_L: it's in a refrigerated corner
06:28 PM JT-Shop2: ah
06:28 PM Tom_L: something different every year
06:30 PM Tom_L: not for consumption.. they reuse it from year to year
06:32 PM JT-Shop2: would be hard to toss out 1200 pounds of butter each year and start anew
06:33 PM Tom_L: they have another guy that does wood sculptures with a chainsaw
06:33 PM Tom_L: i'm not recomending you take that up as a hobby but..
06:34 PM JT-Shop2: they use a special chain for that, I talked to a guy on the Seward Hwy in Alaska that does that
06:34 PM XXCoder: bridge stuff
06:34 PM xxcoder[m]: bridge stuff
06:34 PM Tom_L: https://www.kwch.com/content/news/Wheres-Shane-Chainsaw-carving-at-the-Kansas-State-Fair-492944431.html
06:34 PM CloudEvil: 1200lb of butter is plenty for a butter burning stove.
06:34 PM JT-Shop2: my chainsaw hobby is firewood lol
06:34 PM Tom_L: :)
06:35 PM JT-Shop2: way too much crap on that page lol
06:35 PM Tom_L: it's a news channel.
06:35 PM JT-Shop2: and the odd live edge perch
06:36 PM JT-Shop2: my tolerance for crap is less than XXCoder tolerance for jumpy videos lol
06:36 PM Tom_L: everybody looks forward to the butter one though
06:36 PM XXCoder: yup lol
06:37 PM XXCoder: not jumpscare. im mostly immune to that
06:37 PM JT-Shop2: I want to go to the Wisconsin state fair one day
06:37 PM Tom_L: that tornado here did some pretty good damage
06:38 PM Tom_L: oddly it was the same path as the one in 1991
06:38 PM * JT-Shop2 wanders inside to be with the wife and cats
06:38 PM Tom_L: maybe 1/2 mile further E
07:32 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UbVgUFfN8U
07:33 PM Tom_L: so it's not 4K?
07:35 PM CaptainHindsight: reminds me of a computer watch I had in the 80's
07:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.inexhibit.com/case-studies/seiko-uc-2000-1984-the-dawn-of-wearable-computers/
07:46 PM Tom_L: they've come a ways since then
07:53 PM CaptainHindsight: ?help
07:54 PM Tom_L: ?help
07:55 PM Tom_L: doesn't work on this end
07:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ah the RSS feed from Reddit /LCNC
07:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: works from Discord
07:55 PM Tom_L: and the '/' gets libera help
07:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hopefully this will be better for support vs lots of noise
07:58 PM xxcoder[m]: it dont seem to ypdate stuff so im kicking the bot. sucks
08:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2202.11426.pdf
08:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://hackaday.com/2022/03/13/5-axis-3d-printing-for-the-rest-of-us/
08:04 PM xxcoder[m]: ya saw that. its cool! TINY workspace though
08:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: small printer
08:05 PM XXCoder: yeah. and axis a and c eats a LOT of space
08:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: sadly using the Rhino CAM vs helping FreeCad/Path
08:05 PM XXCoder: its better to use more specific hardware than just slap it on bed
08:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: university project
08:43 PM xxcoder[m]: spotted level up message oops fixed. it wont be in matrix/discord/irc bridge now
09:41 PM Howie4450[m]: Is this the new linuxcnc discord?
09:41 PM XXCoder: yep
09:53 PM CaptainHindsight: double the fun and only half the calories
10:02 PM Doc4133[m]: Hey guys
10:02 PM xxcoder[m]: hey
10:06 PM Doc4133[m]: Running v2.8.whatever on a 4th-gen i5 with a 7i96 attached, how much difference does a discrete GPU make in terms of real-world motion? I'm doing a lot of PCB routing and light drilling, and moving into plastics, so raw ips is fairly relevant
10:07 PM Tom_L: do a latency test and find out
10:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Doc#4133: doesn't really matter for any cpu/chipset since about 2005
10:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: plus your are using a Mesa FPGA so just a servo thread
10:10 PM XXCoder: yeah seems it matters pretty lot less with MESA in general
10:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and many i5's have some of the lowest latency jitter scores on a base thread
10:11 PM Doc4133[m]: That's pretty-much where I've gotten
10:11 PM MikeM5072[m]: I am using an older i5 with the 7i96 and it works great.
10:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: s/your/you/
10:12 PM Doc4133[m]: I've read most of the "run the latency script" thread in the forum, and there's one thing glaringly missing
10:13 PM Doc4133[m]: there's no "best practices" thread where we can report successful (or not) operation after testing
10:13 PM Doc4133[m]: or at least, I'm not finding it.
10:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Doc#4133: there is a forum
10:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Doc#4133: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/39371-results-of-latency-test-list-of-computers-tested-for-use-with-linuxcnc
10:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: post on that forum
10:16 PM Doc4133[m]: That's the thread I was talking about.
10:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or start a new thread if it's something new you'd like to specifically comment and keep track of
10:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: also the wiki
10:16 PM Doc4133[m]: A lot of my problem is my own failure to understand the timing algorithms
10:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: best practice is typically killing all power management and virtualization, speed stepping etc
10:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: much depends on having a BIOS that is not broken
10:17 PM Doc4133[m]: I don't know how to translate jitter into ops per second
10:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there is a section on the wiki about step rates vs jitter time
10:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
10:19 PM Doc4133[m]: Oooh, I've missed that. I'll look it up.
10:19 PM Doc4133[m]: The machine's running reliably already. I'd just like to ditch the EATX supermicro motherboard for an ITX, with the same CPU. The problem is that the ITX board has no PCIe slots
10:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/StepTimingCalculator.ods
10:20 PM Doc4133[m]: Thanks!
10:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Doc#4133: remember that you are only using a slow servo thread ~1KHz
10:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: software stepping is about using a base thread 10-100Khz for step generation with an LPT port
10:23 PM Howie4450[m]: I've got an issue I'm running into with my cnc machine and not sure if it's software, OS, or electrical, and know it's not mechanical.
10:23 PM Howie4450[m]: My machine is skipping steps or drifting steps in one direction. It also skips steps equally between gcode runs.
10:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: since the steps are being generated in the FPGA
10:23 PM Howie4450[m]: I've got it shown in a yt video if it's fine to post?
10:23 PM Howie4450[m]: https://youtu.be/cwEPd8Be2y4?t=333
10:23 PM * CaptHindsight[m] watching video
10:24 PM Howie4450[m]: It'll always skip steps the same distance.
10:24 PM Tom_L: timing wrong on the driver?
10:25 PM Tom_L: step/space
10:25 PM Tom_L: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
10:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he uses a 7i76
10:25 PM Howie4450[m]: I was sure it was the stepper drivers, but I swapped the PC and also different os. ran it again from linux mint running linuxcnc 2.9pre and the missed steps were less, but still there
10:25 PM Tom_L: still goes to a driver
10:26 PM Howie4450[m]: microsteps all set fine
10:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah be sure to check the step and space times
10:26 PM Tom_L: that was my guess for the night :)
10:27 PM xxcoder[m]: all motion stuff moving smoothly? rails? screws?
10:27 PM Doc4133[m]: Right. I ran the prototype to this Sphinx router off the parallel port & stepgen, and the Mesa card has been a *huge* step up
10:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how many micro steps are you running?
10:28 PM Tom_L: nice ghetto shielding btw :)
10:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: he is trying things :)
10:28 PM Howie4450[m]: servo period on the old PC I had to double due to errors. Don't remember off the top of my head what the error was but searching around that was the suggestion and the error went away.
10:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no fault there
10:28 PM Tom_L: none intended
10:29 PM Tom_L: i'd do the same thing if it worked
10:29 PM Tom_L: i mean.. have you seen my box?
10:29 PM Howie4450[m]: 16
10:29 PM Tom_L: try 8?
10:30 PM Tom_L: geckos default to 10 and that seems plenty for them
10:30 PM Howie4450[m]: not a fan of 1/4" PC?
10:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Howie#4450: I'm still watching the video, what is that screw pitch and are there any pulleys or gears between the motors and the screws?
10:30 PM Howie4450[m]: n/m yeah the shielding was a VERY dirty test to see if I could fix it
10:31 PM Howie4450[m]: gonna remove it because it doesn't help
10:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: now I see direct drive
10:31 PM Howie4450[m]: thought I had some noise issues because the stepper wires were along the mesa to driver wires
10:32 PM Howie4450[m]: the logic wires were shielded, but the ones to the steppers wasn't
10:32 PM Tom_L: both mine are shielded but one should be enough
10:33 PM Tom_L: it would be more random if it was noise
10:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: does it still miss steps if you slow the machine down?
10:34 PM Tom_L: maybe the steppers have reached their limit too
10:34 PM Howie4450[m]: x and y are 1610 ball screws 10mm and I think z is 5mm
10:34 PM xxcoder[m]: would grounding loop and such cause such issues?
10:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: accel set to high?
10:35 PM Tom_L: his cabinet looks like he knows how to do wiring
10:35 PM Howie4450[m]: I think it's the drivers. they are cheap chinese DN542
10:35 PM Tom_L: so i figure he knew about star gnd etc
10:35 PM XXCoder: ok
10:36 PM Howie4450[m]: in the oscilloscope I don't talk about, but the I'm probing the in and the out of the drivers and both sides have noise that match each other.
10:36 PM Tom_L: plop some money down on some geckos if you can't figure it out
10:36 PM Tom_L: you can't go wrong with them
10:36 PM Tom_L: 203v
10:36 PM Tom_L: near bullet proof
10:36 PM xxcoder[m]: definitely want to upgrade my system evenually. ill just use rpi4
10:36 PM xxcoder[m]: ethernet MESA card of some kind
10:37 PM Howie4450[m]: a ground loop might be the issue
10:37 PM MikeM5072[m]: I had an rpi4 on my 7i96
10:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if your step polarity is inverted then you will lose a step every time you start motion
10:37 PM Tom_L: 7i92 would be enough
10:37 PM Howie4450[m]: I haven't bench tested a single driver and stepper motor. but I think I'll rip one out and check
10:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: start/direction change
10:37 PM MikeM5072[m]: For the most part it worked well. What made me switch was it would very randomly disconnect
10:38 PM Howie4450[m]: Yeah? I never checked that
10:38 PM MikeM5072[m]: If you want to use an RPI4 you may want to look at one of the MESA SPI boads
10:38 PM Tom_L: ethernet works ok on the rpi4
10:38 PM XXCoder: just so glad I have one. its nigh-impossible to get at sane prices now
10:39 PM Tom_L: i've tested that as well as spi
10:39 PM MikeM5072[m]: As I said it worked ok, but the random disconnects were an issue.
10:39 PM Howie4450[m]: Like thinking if the stepper drives are messed I would have missed steps in all directions and not consistent ones in one direction after multiple runs of the same gcode.
10:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I've made some pretty awful stepper drives work. Some use them regularly
10:40 PM Tom_L: nothing about the gcode suspicious?
10:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they just need properly formed step pulses
10:41 PM Howie4450[m]: nothing that I could tell. Mostly gcode generated from freecad, but also just made some stress test gcode that moves around to debug faster and still same things.
10:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how about if you run step config and test each axis back and forth by say 1cm or 1in?
10:43 PM Howie4450[m]: I can try that in pncconf and get it to move around and press up to some dial indicators
10:44 PM Howie4450[m]: I found it doesn't always do it though. Yesterday I ran some gcode for other tests trying to get other things setup and It ran 3 runs perfectly and I thought it was fixed just by changing the PC and OS. BUT came back
10:45 PM TurBoss: does the drivers support diferential signals?
10:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes, then you can see how and when it drifts
10:45 PM TurBoss: ie + -
10:45 PM MikeM5072[m]: So, on the subject of steppers/drivers. One issue I have had with mine is if I power on and off another machine, on a separate electrical circuit, one of the steppers skips steps. Would this potentially be a grounding issue?
10:46 PM Howie4450[m]: I don't think so. Just amps, microsteps and drop power if steppers aren't moving to reduce heat (I've turned that junk off though)
10:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://kitaez-cnc.com/f/dm542.pdf
10:47 PM Howie4450[m]: Possibly. Are your stepper drivers running though a PSU? or direct from AC
10:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: PSU
10:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the DIP switches are notorious for being backwards, up and down , ON and OFF
10:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: be sure that your motor current is set correctly
10:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what voltage is the power supply to the DM542's?
10:52 PM Howie4450[m]: Originally wasn't for a short time. was going by the RMS value instead of max. When I switched off idle current reduction I also dropped the the current too.
10:53 PM Howie4450[m]: I'm running 3A motors at dip settings for 3.3A
10:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: is the PSU a switch mode power supply or a toroidal unregulated?
10:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what is the current rating of the PSU?
10:53 PM Howie4450[m]: They get well warm but not hot
10:54 PM Howie4450[m]: Volts to the DM542 is 36v
10:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what voltage is your Step and Dir signals?
10:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: your drives also have settings for STEP and DIR polarity
10:55 PM Howie4450[m]: and step/dir signals from the mesa I can't remember if it's logic level 5v or field voltage. If its field voltage its 24v
10:55 PM Howie4450[m]: actually I should beable to see because I've got the recordings from the ossoliscope still. I'll check.
10:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there used to be someone in here that used those awful Chinese stepper drives and he built >100 machines /year, and they worked
10:56 PM Howie4450[m]: Yeah it's 5v logic to the stepper drives
10:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oohh
10:57 PM Howie4450[m]: watching on the scope, voltage to the motors stayed at it's 36v and didn't drop when they were all moving, so I don't think its the psu being the issue
10:58 PM Howie4450[m]: looking at that manual it's 5-24v
10:58 PM TurBoss8676[m]: can you try to wire step+ step - dir + dir - from mesa to drivers?
10:58 PM Howie4450[m]: maybe I'm getting missed steps because of the weak signal of 5v and the noise on the signal
10:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i76man.pdf
11:00 PM TurBoss: TurBoss8676[m]: makes any sense?
11:01 PM Howie4450[m]: Not sure what you mean. I've got the mesa and the drivers wired that way already
11:01 PM TurBoss: ok
11:02 PM Howie4450[m]: jumper W2 in the manual looks like it swaps how the output is done from 5v to ground. Not sure what ground means in this context though
11:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Step pulses have to be 2.5uS min. I'd increase the high and low times and test
11:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: try 5uS
11:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: cheap drives tend to like longer pulses
11:04 PM Howie4450[m]: How do I do that? is that in the linuxcnc ini file?
11:04 PM Tom_L: yes
11:04 PM Howie4450[m]: like in the joint sections?
11:04 PM Tom_L: likely yes
11:04 PM Tom_L: steplen stepspace or some such
11:04 PM Howie4450[m]: `STEPLEN = 5000
11:04 PM Howie4450[m]: STEPSPACE = 5000
11:04 PM Howie4450[m]: STEP_SCALE = -160.0` maybe liek thse?
11:04 PM Howie4450[m]: yeah
11:05 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes
11:06 PM Tom_L: # STELEN is the stepper pulse width
11:06 PM Tom_L: # STEPSPACE is the min space between 2 pulses
11:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I am all out of 542 drives
11:06 PM Tom_L: also
11:06 PM Tom_L: DIRSETUP = 200
11:06 PM Tom_L: DIRHOLD = 200
11:06 PM Howie4450[m]: ok cool this is like the actual signal settings
11:06 PM Tom_L: i just pulled those from my config, your numbers will vary
11:07 PM Tom_L: ^^ in ns
11:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: after this we can go on and on about star grounds and avoiding loops :)
11:08 PM Tom_L: you can only go as fast as your steppers will before they saturate
11:08 PM Tom_L: capn, i mentioned stars
11:08 PM Tom_L: but just in passing
11:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes so test them at slow speeds and see if they still skip
11:08 PM Howie4450[m]: ok great, I'll read into the step lengths and see if things help.
11:08 PM Howie4450[m]: time for ground loops 😄
11:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: avoid them
11:09 PM Tom_L: write down your original settings :)
11:09 PM Tom_L: i dunno if your driver was on that wiki list but you could check
11:11 PM Howie4450[m]: I don't fully know things with ground loops, but from my understanding it's when you have a difference in potential between two different ground. I think? Not sure how things are affected when you ground your cnc machine to your electrical panel and the sorts though.
11:11 PM Howie4450[m]: For instance I've got 2 psu's 24v and 36v and have linked the ground to both as a common.
11:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: all grounds should come to one point vs branches
11:11 PM Tom_L: ^^
11:12 PM Tom_L: star ground configuration
11:12 PM Tom_L: instead of point to point to point...
11:12 PM Tom_L: they all return to one spot
11:13 PM Tom_L: shields are grounded on one end
11:13 PM Tom_L: i personally grounded the stepper frames
11:14 PM Howie4450[m]: and if you got shielded wire and you are not grounding it, it'll act like an amplifier to EM noise?
11:14 PM xxcoder[m]: was wondering, how do you avoid loop though spindle, tool, table and then to frame ahain?
11:14 PM Howie4450[m]: yeah same. because it seems like it would make one big loop
11:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Howie#4450: https://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/in/1770-in041_-en-p.pdf
11:15 PM Tom_L: path of least resistance is a nice fat ground wire from frame to star ground
11:17 PM Howie4450[m]: Run some fat Romex solid core from the machine
11:19 PM Howie4450[m]: That one thing I gotta do is test all major metal parts on my machine to see if there is connectivity which I doubt there is.
11:28 PM Howie4450[m]: Anyone here running qt dragon hd as their interface and using a touch plate? I've got it functional in the interface but it seems like the interace is meant that you 1 goto the touch plate 2 touch and zero off the plate as 2 separate steps. Is that by design? I haven't setup and tested a tool change mid way through a run of gcode so to don't have any macros setup for that. If you got such a setup working and have your configs on github
11:28 PM Howie4450[m]: or somewhere else I'd love to check them out.
11:30 PM Tom_L: sry i use tool holders and preset them
11:38 PM XXCoder: hmm
11:38 PM xxcoder[m]: hmm
11:38 PM xxcoder[m]: bridge seem to be going one way only now
11:38 PM TurBoss: ping
11:38 PM TurBoss8676[m]: pong
11:39 PM xxcoder[m]: or maybe it was bit of a log. bot missed tom comment
11:39 PM xxcoder[m]: *lag
11:43 PM xxcoder[m]: well seems most of stuff have settled down. not bad for literally first day
11:59 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ