#linuxcnc Logs

Apr 14 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM _unreal_: well looks like its time for bed for me
01:14 AM MrSunshine: from what i find in forums, join values are before its homed, axis values are after its homed ?
01:14 AM MrSunshine: so i can have lower speed when in joint mode than in axis mode ?
01:16 AM MrSunshine: or will the axis max_velocity be clipped to the lowest joint max_velocity ?
02:28 AM Deejay: moin
02:50 AM XXCoder: https://www.3dnatives.com/en/sandvik-3d-printable-cemented-carbide-140420224/
02:50 AM XXCoder: mak your own carbide tools
02:56 AM MrSunshine: pcw--home, "Note that even though the 7I92 can tolerate 5V signal inputs, its outputs will not
02:56 AM MrSunshine: swing to 5V." <-- could this pose a problem with the chinese breakout boards ? =) just a tought =)
03:03 AM MrSunshine: so it ends up at 3.3V then on the outputs, not 5V from what i gather? so as long as the buffers on the board has a trigger level of 2V it should be good i guess =)
03:38 AM randy: morning
03:38 AM toulene8 is now known as toulene
03:48 AM MrSunshine: gah what are these circuits called that you need to supply a "heartbeat" to for them to be enabled ?
03:49 AM MrSunshine: say a breakoutboard for example that needs a steady squarewave for it to be active
03:49 AM sensille: watchdog?
03:50 AM MrSunshine: ah
03:50 AM MrSunshine: there it is :P
03:52 AM MrSunshine: noticed that all outputs on my machine gets enabled with the mesa card if i exit linuxcnc ... i guess its the default state of the mesa card that is the problem .. would it be possible to correct this somehow or do i need to change out the breakout board?
04:03 AM randy: maybe using pulldown resistors? dont know the china bob in detail
04:49 AM Tom_L: morning
05:04 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:05 AM Tom_L: cool front moved thru
05:05 AM Tom_L: 37F
05:46 AM MrSunshine: hmm, so ive got all my stepper drives alarm signal connected in parallel, so 1 signal for fault in any of the drives. now i want to give that input into each one of the joints so to halt the whole machine if one joint fails
05:47 AM MrSunshine: how would i do that? as i cannot bind the same signal to each joint.0.amp-fault-in
05:54 AM MrSunshine: i guess it could be done in classic ladder quite easily but then i have to activate that stuff also :P
05:56 AM mrec: does anyone use a Jianken JGL-80/2.2KW ATC spindle?
05:56 AM mrec: I'm about to buy one for my cnc to speed up milling here
07:57 AM enleth: https://matrix.hackerspace.pl/_matrix/media/r0/download/hackerspace.pl/a9a8e7be2f81ce0a07979a5921541c705f51f08d/16499361409898336282686005653164.jpg
08:18 AM t4nk_freenode: hehe wasn't asking ;)
08:18 AM * t4nk_freenode wipes off some sweat
08:18 AM t4nk_freenode: just cut another 3 square tubes and 8 rods
08:19 AM t4nk_freenode: by hand.
08:19 AM t4nk_freenode: all major beams and carriages are now done
08:19 AM t4nk_freenode: now I just need some chewing gum to hold it all together
09:28 AM satiowadahc[m]: <MrSunshine> "i guess it could be done in..." <- logic or an whole bunch of or components.. "loadrt logic personality=0x2ff" would give 16 inputs to 1 output
09:30 AM randy: i think he's offline
09:35 AM satiowadahc[m]: I spose timestamps are a thing I should actually look at
09:36 AM pcw--home: MrSunshine: The 7I92 outputs will drive any TTL compatible device (HCT,ACT CMOS etc) and will swing to 5V with no load
09:38 AM pcw--home: Also you can drive all joint fault inputs from one signal (but you don't need to, LinuxCNC will fault on any)
09:42 AM pcw--home: net any_drive_fault <= some_gpio_pin => joint.0.amp-fault-in joint.1.amp-fault-in joint.2.amp-fault-in
10:20 AM satiowadahc[m]: Really wish the misc_errors, I would've called external errors, or something more meaningful. but naming things is hard
10:23 AM roycroft: happy spring
10:23 AM roycroft: we have black ice on roads along the coast, and schools are closed all over the place due to snowy, icy weather
10:24 AM roycroft: fortunately we're not suffering any of that here, but it did get close to freezing last night
10:24 AM satiowadahc[m]: I decided it was a work from home day in the off chance the blizzard decides to come north.. driven through too many of them this year.
10:28 AM unterhaus: apparently years ago comcast filtered our line because our wiring was so bad. They failed to tell us
10:42 AM roycroft: well it looks like we'll be in the double-digits again starting today - not up to our normal high until monday, but at least closer to normal
10:42 AM roycroft: hopefully this is the last taste of winter until november
10:55 AM olbastard[m]: was almost 100f 4 days ago and froze last night.. weather has been all over the place here
11:29 AM roycroft: so i think it's time to get a 4k display for my cad workstation
11:29 AM roycroft: any suggestions on a moderately priced graphic card for the machine?
11:29 AM roycroft: it will be running primarily acad 2008 and sw2018
11:29 AM roycroft: and i'm not modeling rocket ships
11:30 AM roycroft: if i could get a used graphics card for around $200 that would be ideal
11:34 AM * roycroft is looking at an nvidia quadro p1000
11:53 AM mrec: what kind of spindle do you guys use on a milling machine?
11:53 AM roycroft: a round one
11:54 AM mrec: I thought about the JGL-80/2.2KW however there's no encoder on it it seems
11:54 AM firephoto__ is now known as firephoto_
11:56 AM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077BTW4NQ/
11:56 AM roycroft: that is pretty commonly used for a high speed spindle
11:57 AM roycroft: i have a couple of those
12:01 PM mrec: I'd like to use an ATC with the next upgrade
12:01 PM mrec: my current spindle has 750w but only 2200rpm i'm falling asleep before things are done
12:03 PM mrec: https://i.snipboard.io/zZBVxi.jpg
12:03 PM mrec: https://i.snipboard.io/PVq31h.jpg
12:03 PM olbastard[m]: being a noob.. does one really need spindle speeds of 24000rpm? I only cut wood for now
12:03 PM mrec: yes me!
12:03 PM mrec: maybe not 24 but around 17k would be nice
12:04 PM roycroft: for wood, certainly
12:04 PM roycroft: for non-ferrous metals, if you want to use small cutters
12:04 PM roycroft: for steel, 24000rpm is way too fast for almost any cutter
12:05 PM mrec: https://i.snipboard.io/RhnayS.jpg
12:05 PM mrec: that's all done with 2.2k rpm
12:05 PM roycroft: most hand-held routers spin at 24000rpm
12:06 PM roycroft: the larger ones generally have variable speed, so you can slow it down when using large cutters
12:06 PM roycroft: but still max at 24000rpm
12:06 PM mrec: I think my dearmel (yes dearmel ... dremel copy) spins at around 9k
12:06 PM roycroft: that's probably a good thing, unless it's made better than an genuine dremel
12:07 PM mrec: they shipped it with some saw blades.. I think that's good if someone wants to kill himself with it
12:07 PM mrec: I only tested it one time .. turn it on it wobbled and did not look safe
12:08 PM mrec: small dremel tools are fine however but the saw blade seems to be quite dangerous
12:08 PM CloudEvil: For aluminium, for example, cutting speed with carbide may be as much as 400m/min. 24000RPM would get you a diameter of about 5mm.
12:09 PM mrec: 400m/min?
12:09 PM olbastard[m]: ya.. i had a cheap trim router the second you turned it on it was like holding a vibrator it wobbled so bad
12:10 PM mrec: CloudEvil: 400m/min?
12:10 PM mrec: I kind of don't think so
12:11 PM mrec: I'm going around 500mm/min with 2.2k rpm
12:11 PM mrec: and 9mm endmill
12:11 PM CloudEvil: That is the speed of the cutting edge, not the speed the bit is traversing
12:12 PM roycroft: i just found a quadro 6000 on cl for $200
12:12 PM roycroft: that's some pretty serious overkill for what i need, but it's a good deal
12:13 PM CloudEvil: 2200RPM and 9mm would get you a speed of about 60m/min.
12:50 PM JanneKro9 is now known as JanneKro
12:50 PM firephoto__ is now known as firephoto_
12:56 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:06 PM roguish[m]: roycroft: that's pretty old graphics card
01:06 PM roguish[m]: I have 2 4000's in a workstation. almost 10 years old
01:06 PM roycroft: yes, it is old
01:07 PM roycroft: but my needs are not all that much
01:07 PM roycroft: if i'm honest, i'm not unhappy with the graphics card i have now, except it maxes out at 1080p
01:07 PM roguish[m]: is it for SW?
01:07 PM roycroft: yes
01:07 PM roycroft: sw 2018
01:07 PM roycroft: and i want to put a 4k display on the machine
01:07 PM roycroft: so my needs are for a card that does 4k and is moderately powerful
01:08 PM roycroft: as i said, i'm not modelling rocket ships
01:08 PM roycroft: i'm mostly modelling small machines and pieces of furniture
01:08 PM roguish[m]: the newer SW, like 2018 and now won't use it really well.
01:08 PM roguish[m]: check out what's recommended for your SW version.
01:09 PM roycroft: if you have a recommendation i'd like to hear it
01:09 PM roguish[m]: SW changed its graphics system not long ago.
01:09 PM roycroft: i think that quadro p1000 is probably fine
01:09 PM roguish[m]: yes. a Pxxx is much newer, better.
01:09 PM roycroft: yeah, i recall that sw used to work really well with gaming cards, but now works best with dedicated cad cards
01:10 PM roguish[m]: yes, that's true
01:10 PM roycroft: gaming cards are all about speed over accuracy
01:10 PM roycroft: cad cards are all about accuracy, and if it's too slow, well spend a lot more money to get both
01:11 PM roycroft: in the quadro line, the p2000, p4000, and p6000 are what sw recommend
01:11 PM roycroft: but i can get a p1000 for a lot less than a p2000
01:11 PM roguish[m]: I recommend you go with the Pxxxx or newer, like a Txxxx
01:11 PM roycroft: and since i just want 4k and a little help with the graphics rendering, the p1000 will probably work fine
01:11 PM roguish[m]: yeah, you may only need the 1000.
01:11 PM roguish[m]: good call.
01:12 PM roguish[m]: go for it
01:12 PM roycroft: i very rarely do photo-quality rendering
01:12 PM roguish[m]: i'm pushing dual 4K's
01:12 PM roycroft: and i've found a big bottleneck in sw that a graphics card won't help - heaps of mates
01:12 PM roycroft: but i've also found an easy work-around
01:13 PM roycroft: after i set up a series of mates (usually 3 mates to locate a part), i just change the part to fixed, and the mates are ignored
01:13 PM roycroft: and sw gets responsive again
01:13 PM roguish[m]: one thing most don't realize is if there are unrestrained mates. floaters.
01:13 PM roycroft: i guess every time it redraws it recalculates all those mates
01:13 PM roguish[m]: they drive the solver crazy
01:14 PM roycroft: before i did my memory upgrade on the machine (i had 8GB at the time), i located a couple linear rails on an extrusion
01:14 PM roguish[m]: I lock down as much as possible, to minimize the internal numeric calcs.
01:14 PM roycroft: each rail had about 20 nuts/bolts holding it in place
01:14 PM roycroft: i did all that with mates, and it would take maybe 5 minutes to redraw
01:14 PM XXCoder: heavy snow. fun
01:15 PM XXCoder: no snow lives contact with ground, but snow is golf ball sized
01:15 PM roycroft: as soon as i fixed all those parts, it started taking about 7 seconds to redraw
01:15 PM roycroft: no snow hwere
01:15 PM roguish[m]: oh, also, suppress all the freaking threads on fasteners. screws and nuts.
01:15 PM roycroft: yeah, i already do that
01:15 PM roycroft: that is just a total waste of energy
01:16 PM roycroft: if i had a high-end graphics card the gpu would probably handle all of that, but it would still be a waste of energy
01:16 PM roycroft: i've actually learned (i'm slow, i know), after all this time, that i should model the entire machine first, and then, when the design is finished, go back and add all the fasteners
01:16 PM roguish[m]: I turn off all the 'real view' noise. shadows, and reflections, and shit
01:17 PM roycroft: i don't even locate the fastener holes any more until the overall design is done
01:17 PM roycroft: i've spent way too much time moving/deleting/adding that crap whenever i do an edit
01:17 PM roycroft: and it slows the machine down a lot
01:18 PM roycroft: but really, the huge win is to fix a part immediately after mating it
01:18 PM roguish[m]: use patterns when you can.. that way you can add one screw to be sure it fits, then when ready pattern in all the rest.
01:18 PM roycroft: yes, i use the hole and fastener wizards a lot
01:18 PM roguish[m]: ya learn techniques after a while
01:18 PM roycroft: i just laid out some 32mm grid holes last night on a panel
01:19 PM roycroft: and i found a great feature in sw that autocad doesn't have - i can set up the grid, and then suppress any rows/columns i want
01:19 PM roycroft: which is awesome
01:19 PM roycroft: a typical drawer slide will have the first hole 37mm in from the front, then the spacing is 128mm, 64mm, 128mm, 32mm, 32mm, 32mm
01:20 PM roycroft: so i set up a grid spaced 32mm apart, and get rid of the columns i don't need
01:20 PM roycroft: with acad that's a huge hassle
01:20 PM roycroft: with sw it takes a few seconds
01:20 PM roguish[m]: yeah, in patterns. you can omit some. or even move 'em.
01:20 PM roguish[m]: it's all there. just not obvious.
01:20 PM roycroft: yup
01:21 PM roycroft: and sw2018 is way more powerful than sw2012
01:21 PM roycroft: i'm really glad i bought the newer version, even though it wants a lot more computer
01:21 PM roycroft: and i haven't used solidcam at all yet
01:21 PM roycroft: which i did not have for sw2012
01:30 PM roycroft: the guy with the quadro 6000 just emailed me back and said he cannot demo the card because he will only meet buyers in a public place
01:30 PM roycroft: i'm not going to buy something i can't prove works
01:31 PM roycroft: this is the second time recently that a cl seller has told me this
01:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: anyone willing to buy and sell nvidia can't be trusted
01:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: video cards might not expose their issues until after they get warm
01:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: purchasing a used graphics card without a warranty is quite a gamble
01:35 PM roycroft: yeah, and those quadros do tend to have some problems when they get hot
01:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: we have seen graphics cards being offered for sale used with claims of having issues for near a $1000 as though it's like a used car that just needs tome TLC
01:37 PM roycroft: when it's toast it's not possible to make it not toast again
01:38 PM roycroft: buying used on ebay, with the ability to return if it's defective, is fairly safe
01:38 PM roycroft: i'm sure i could find a way to push the card really hard for a while
01:38 PM roycroft: get it nice and warm, and see if it freaks out
01:38 PM satiowadahc[m]: Solidworks is picky and requires quadro's correct?
01:38 PM roycroft: there are gpu torture test suites that would handle it
01:39 PM roycroft: it's picky, but does not require quadros
01:39 PM satiowadahc[m]: I've been running inventor on a 1650 with no issues for some time now
01:39 PM roycroft: i'm just more familiar with the quadro line than some of the other gpus
01:40 PM roycroft: and my experience with nvidia cards is that they are pretty decent, and as long as the cooling fans work, quite reliable
01:43 PM roycroft: the gtx 1650 is fairly affordable new
01:45 PM roycroft: but there are reports that the gtx series does not work well with sw
01:45 PM roycroft: and reports that they work fine
01:49 PM roycroft: the p600 is directly supported by sw 2018, and i can buy that new for <$200
01:49 PM roycroft: that might be the way to go
01:56 PM * roycroft decides on that, with a 4 year extended warranty
01:56 PM XXCoder: Sir, I am calling you about your cars extended warranty
01:56 PM roycroft: i think if i need a more powerful gpu than that i'll be generating enough revenue doing cad work to afford it
01:57 PM roycroft: "bugger off"
01:57 PM olbastard[m]: i get those calls every day
01:57 PM roycroft: as do i
01:58 PM olbastard[m]: even to my unlisted google number
01:58 PM XXCoder: i probably do, but I dont answer them
02:01 PM olbastard[m]: ok.. question.. in AXIS the jog speed slider.. is there a config im overlooking that i can set that so every time i open the app its not set so slow? I tried the .pref but nothing changes
02:07 PM olbastard[m]: nevermind.. its in the ini.. sheesh im braindead today
02:47 PM Tom_L: :)
02:47 PM Tom_L: maybe in the [DISPLAY] section
02:50 PM JT-Shop: I can't reproduce this bug with my 7i95 tool, anyone have time to try https://github.com/jethornton/7i95/issues/8
02:55 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:16 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, only happens on the first save?
04:28 PM XXCoder: my car randomly died :(
04:28 PM XXCoder: computer acts weird, may be lot volt thing though
04:35 PM XXCoder: *low
04:59 PM andypugh_ is now known as andypugh
05:22 PM _unreal_: XXCoder did you try CPR?
05:23 PM XXCoder: ?
05:23 PM _unreal_: <XXCoder> my car randomly died :(
05:24 PM XXCoder: cpr is for humans so far I know.
05:24 PM _unreal_: live damn you live
05:25 PM XXCoder: jump start wasnt really a success, though portable seem to be low on battery again after testing
05:25 PM XXCoder: battery may be dead
05:25 PM _unreal_: hum
05:26 PM _unreal_: the best portable jump battery I've ever found is from Harbor Freight. lithium based
05:26 PM _unreal_: small like $70
05:26 PM _unreal_: but I've been using it for about 5 years now still going strong go figure
05:26 PM _unreal_: same battery
05:26 PM _unreal_: very small tooo
05:32 PM XXCoder: i suppose but i have no need to buy one
05:46 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, when he changes the name the first time, I suspect it's his file manager
05:53 PM olbastard[m]: having a problem with touch probe
05:54 PM JT-Shop: spank it
05:54 PM olbastard[m]: if i set the initial speed at 100mm i dont get a bounce.. but anything slower i get a bounce and get error message probe tripped during non-probe move
05:56 PM JT-Shop: might be vibration from the stepper motor... assuming steppers
05:57 PM olbastard[m]: is there a setting i can check or change.. if i go down to 0.005mm feed and set it right on the pad i can see it triggering on and off
05:58 PM JT-Shop: prob vibration then, steppers?
05:58 PM JT-Shop: or electrical noise
06:00 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i was gonna try it but my buster install is bonkers
06:00 PM JT-Shop: ok, np
06:01 PM olbastard[m]: so not much i can do? at probing slower to get more accurate?
06:03 PM JT-Shop: can you feel the vibration at slow speeds?
06:08 PM olbastard[m]: my old hands give it more vibration than the table has.. maybe i need to use a switch and not an aluminum pad?
06:10 PM JT-Shop: so it's not a real touch probe?
06:13 PM olbastard[m]: no old school alligator clips with aluminum plate
06:19 PM olbastard[m]: well ..@#$%^ Ive been fighting it for hours and right after i ask i come across a fix
06:19 PM olbastard[m]: #add this to custom.hal for probe debouncing... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/71678643a28c30bb236fe39824b63d6ac23ee40b)
06:20 PM JT-Shop: debounce on a probe input seems to defeat the accuracy of a probe
06:21 PM JT-Shop: where as a dowel and proper technique are very accurate to find Z0
06:22 PM JT-Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRUJk0ptN4
06:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: if that guy with the small LPT based CNC router comes back tell him to run JT's LPT port tester on that WCH 382L card to make sure it is working
06:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WCH
06:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Parallel_Port_Tester
06:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have two of those boards and verified that they work with LCNC
06:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they are from two different sources, use the same chip and have the same PCI id's
06:30 PM olbastard[m]: now i got to figure out the tool table.. when i add a new tool to the tool.tbl and in MDI do m6 t4 .. it tells me requested tool 4 not found in tool table .. all the default tools work
06:35 PM Tom_L: just open it and edit it
06:35 PM Tom_L: i think it's under the File menu
06:39 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gui/axis.html#_menu_items
06:41 PM Tom_L: save and reload it
06:46 PM Tom_L: also you can limit the columns that display in the tool table with an ini setting
06:47 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/gui/tooledit.html#_column_selection
10:36 PM roycroft: grr
10:36 PM roycroft: it is only april, the election is not until november, and i'm already sick of the endless nasty political attck ads
10:36 PM XXCoder: whys you growling
10:36 PM XXCoder: ah
10:36 PM roycroft: they're almost non-stop
10:37 PM Tom_L: i haven't seen any
10:37 PM roycroft: it's 8:20
10:37 PM roycroft: i turned the tv on at 8
10:37 PM roycroft: i've seen a half dozen so far
10:37 PM Tom_L: i avoid them
10:37 PM XXCoder: havent seen any either, but then not a strong argument for me. I dont watch tv much
10:37 PM roycroft: over half the commercials are political attack ads
10:37 PM Tom_L: ^^
10:38 PM roycroft: i don't watch commercial tv very often
10:38 PM roycroft: and i suspect i'll be watching it even less between now and november
10:38 PM XXCoder: im watching edge precision youtube video
10:39 PM XXCoder: man thats deep cutting attack
10:48 PM roycroft: i think that from now on, anything i want to watch on commercial television i should tivo, so i can skip the nasty commercials
10:48 PM mrec: Tom_L: the motor arrived I guess installing it will take some time since it's not a drop in replacement.
10:48 PM mrec: and certainly I did not check before but the motor looks good
10:49 PM XXCoder: learned somethinbg new. "blunt start"
10:49 PM roycroft: if you have to modify your machine to install your new motor you should test the motor before beginning the mods
10:49 PM XXCoder: its threads, he milled out the start so threads ends before it touches the end of part
10:50 PM XXCoder: wonder why it exists though
10:50 PM XXCoder: looks like this https://imgur.com/jvRM2QF.png
10:51 PM Tom_L: mrec, what size did you get?
10:53 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, so it doesn't pull the first thread
10:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ok found a WCH 382L card that doesn't work
10:53 PM Tom_L: gets pretty thin at the start
10:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so since they are so flaky I took it off the LCNC wiki
10:53 PM mrec: Tom_L: 8x8x17.5 not sure if 17.5 fits into it
10:54 PM mrec: the original one is 12
10:54 PM mrec: mm
10:54 PM mrec: 120mm
10:54 PM mrec: 175mm is the new one
10:54 PM mrec: (length)
10:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Tom_L: why you have more than one thread :)
10:55 PM Tom_L: yeah but if you bugger up the first one it can give you fits getting it started
10:55 PM Tom_L: and that looks like a fairly precision thread
10:56 PM Tom_L: high pressure or something similar
10:57 PM CaptHindsight[m]: being thinner at first (closer to the edge of the part) is the wide part of a taper
10:58 PM CaptHindsight[m]: as long as the pitch doesn't actually change it should make the first half turn or so easier when fit together
10:59 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like at least 12 turns there
11:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: turns = complete rotations
11:26 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: ahh ok
11:26 PM XXCoder: I think I see that, silver of thread is weak, they want to avoid weak spot