#linuxcnc Logs

Apr 11 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:02 AM mrec: https://i.snipboard.io/9CgAu2.jpg
12:11 AM mrec: facing them down from 13.2 to 11.5
01:25 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:42 AM randy: morning
01:53 AM CaptHindsight[m]: aluminum flooring?
02:07 AM mrec: yes I had to get it down from 13.2 to 11.5
02:08 AM mrec: all done now.
02:18 AM MrSunshine: pcw--home, does mesa cards have protection if user happneds to connect gnd and +5v backwards ? =)
02:19 AM Deejay: moin
03:47 AM pingufan: Hello. I have a little CNC router controlled by linuxcnc version 8x. I cannot use a newer software because it does not work with my mainboard.
03:48 AM pingufan: Now I plan to replace the spindle (only on/off) by a BLDC or VFD drive.
03:49 AM pingufan: What kind of control can I get with this linuxcnc? Can I also set the rpm? Available is serial port, USB, parallel port (that I use now).
05:00 AM Tom_L: morning
05:03 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:00 AM JT-Cave: yippie I added a version option to mesaflash
08:01 AM Tom_L: :)
09:11 AM unterhaus: 9 pin serial ports will forever remain "db9" for me, if that's not right I don't want to be right
09:12 AM unterhaus: ^mailing list reference
09:18 AM pcw--home: MrSunshine: Yes there is a reverse protection diode. but if you dont use a current limited power supply you will cause damage
09:39 AM roycroft: they have never been db9, and never will be :)
10:03 AM unterhaus: google disagrees :)
10:05 AM unterhaus: somebody says de9 to me and I ask them what they mean
10:24 AM roycroft: it's ok
10:24 AM roycroft: if you say "db9" i'll understand what you mean
10:25 AM roycroft: but i'll also judge you
10:48 AM roycroft: it is snowing in portland
10:49 AM roycroft: this is the latest in the season that snow has ever been recorded at pdx
10:59 AM roycroft: my 3/8"-27 panel nuts are out for delivery
10:59 AM roycroft: that was lightning fast
11:00 AM roycroft: now my kiln controller will be complete
12:09 PM XXCoder: roycroft: perfect. now you can keep warm with kiln during snowy day ;)
12:09 PM roycroft: it's not snowing here
12:09 PM roycroft: but it's definitely cool
12:09 PM roycroft: highs in the single digits all week
12:11 PM roycroft: hmm
12:12 PM roycroft: that snowstorm in 2012 that i remember being in april was really 21 march
12:12 PM roycroft: i guess it was april when i dealt with the downed trees
12:15 PM roycroft: the latest snow that ever fell in eugene was on 11 april 1911
12:17 PM XXCoder: here its wet and annoying
12:17 PM roycroft: same here
12:17 PM XXCoder: yay rain buddies
12:44 PM MrSunshine: JT-Cave, hey .. got the mesa board connected and tried your configuration utility . .but seem to only support 7i77 and 7i76 .. i want to use it like an parport for an ordenary breakout board so i guess that tool is not usable ?
12:45 PM JT-Cave: you can use it to flash the firmware... 7i92?
12:46 PM MrSunshine: yes, i can .. but then im left to my own to figure out how to do the actual configuration in hal files later =)
12:46 PM MrSunshine: JT-Cave, yes 7i92
12:47 PM MrSunshine: flashed 7i92_prob_rfx2d now as i understnad from the manual that is to be used like a parport
12:56 PM JT-Cave: that firmware puts 4 stepgens on each connector... let me see
12:57 PM MrSunshine: https://www.jbcnc.se/images/datasheets/5axisCNCinterfaceboardUSB.pdf i have one of these in the machine
12:58 PM MrSunshine: using 4 axises, one for x, two for y and one for z, and pwm for spindle, and the inputs
01:01 PM MrSunshine: sure i will need to try and hand change my current config as ive got stuff i dont know how to configure again realy in it .. but would like a sample atleast to work from =)
01:04 PM MrSunshine: http://freeby.mesanet.com/7i92step.zip finding this url for a simple sameple for 7i92 but the url does not work =)
01:20 PM JT-Cave: are you using my Mesa Configuration Tool or my 7i92 Configuration Tool?
01:22 PM MrSunshine: 7i92 config tool
01:23 PM JT-Cave: I think it will be easier for me to add a 7i92 parallel port to the Mesa Configuration Tool if you want to switch to it
01:24 PM JT-Cave: I'm real close to making a working configuration with it
01:27 PM MrSunshine: btw, why is there no pin file for the 7i92_prob_rfx2d bit file ? =) nor in the tool nor in the zip file from mesa
01:30 PM pcw--home: You can make your own...
01:35 PM pcw--home: MrSunshine: That breakout uses 5ABOB firmware
01:48 PM JT-Cave: I tried searching for the pin out for that board but can't find anything
01:49 PM MrSunshine: JT-Cave, the board i posted ?
01:50 PM MrSunshine: JT-Cave, https://www.jbcnc.se/images/datasheets/DB25_0-10v.pdf
01:51 PM JT-Cave: I'm looking for the PP pinout
01:52 PM MrSunshine: the PP pinout is there on the pdf, P1, P14 etc .. corresponds to the pins ? =)
01:53 PM JT-Cave: ah missed that
01:53 PM MrSunshine: =)
01:53 PM MrSunshine: atleast i hope so as my current config is made by that diagram as reference :P
01:59 PM JT-Cave: are the P numebers on the board behind the plugs?
01:59 PM JT-Cave: https://www.teknistore.com/4355218-thickbox_default/geekcreit-5-axis-cnc-interface-board-for-stepper-motor-driver-mach3-with-usb-cable.jpg
01:59 PM MrSunshine: they are written on the board yes
02:00 PM MrSunshine: https://snipboard.io/j3OG4Z.jpg
02:01 PM MrSunshine: looks like exactly the same board, looking at components more than some transistor is rotated :P
02:14 PM JT-Cave: I should have my Mesa Configuration Tool ready to make a config tomorrow for the 5ABOB firmware
02:18 PM MrSunshine: JT-Cave, that would be awesome! =) i will disconnect later today over night (its 21:00 here now) but will be back in the morning =) will bug you again then =)
02:19 PM JT-Cave: ok, you can be my tester
02:22 PM MrSunshine: yeah, all tho like i said .. i manily need it for a basic config as i need to add in the Y2 axis etc also, i have no machine with just pure x, y, z
02:23 PM tcurdt: Anyone here that could explain to me how linuxcnc talks to a mesa card and how that makes it so desirable? IIUC the idea is that the steps happen at the exact same time and at the exact same frequency. But when bit banging 4 step outputs on a fast MCU the delay between the steps of the axis seems negligible. What makes mesa cards such a big deal? and why are there no competitors?
02:26 PM unterhaus: most of the timing is moved to the mesa card. Fast mcu often have unacceptable delays even though there is no particular reason for them
02:27 PM unterhaus: With something else handling the timing, it's a lot easier to find an acceptable PC
02:28 PM unterhaus: There is a lot more competition for mach hardware because there are more users
02:28 PM unterhaus: I'm sure if lcnc had the user base, there would be more competition.
02:28 PM unterhaus: But Mesa sets a pretty high bar.
02:29 PM MrSunshine: i think the reason mach is used more than linuxcnc is the usual problem with linux, stuff gets too complicated =)
02:29 PM MrSunshine: people want point and click
02:29 PM MrSunshine: not write your own config
02:29 PM tcurdt: The separation of the timing of the PC is clear - I just didn't think that the timing of MCU is really that inconsistent or has to be *that* consistent.
02:30 PM tcurdt: I mean - just the tolerances in motors and drivers ... wouldn't they be a bigger factor?
02:31 PM MrSunshine: tcurdt, when moving several axises at once the timing i guess becomes realy important, you cant have X axis lag 10 steps behind Y axis =) and smooth motion is important for the surface finnish etc
02:32 PM pcw--home: A MCU is certainly as workable. We use FPGAs because they are much more flexible (say you want 6 quadrature encoders 5 stepgens and 3 BISS absolute encoders, you can have that)
02:33 PM pcw--home: also the firmware is much more portable than MCU firmware (the code will run on basically any FPGA that it can fit)
02:34 PM tcurdt: I certainly see that flexibility - that is pretty cool.
02:34 PM MrSunshine: doesnt fpga give almost like asic speeds of stuff also?
02:35 PM MrSunshine: so it will be like a chip designed for just that task that is in the array
02:35 PM pcw--home: Close to ASIC speed if you use the latest (we are not)
02:35 PM tcurdt: pcw--home ...but given that I don't really need that - and isn't in stock anyway ... I am wondering how bad alternatives could be
02:36 PM pcw--home: Nothin is in stock for a while, almost all FPGA's, ucontrolllers, Ethernet chips, power supply chips, optocouplers have ~ 1 year lead times
02:37 PM tcurdt: yeah ... this is so crazy
02:37 PM MrSunshine: the semiconductor shortage realy sucks :/
02:38 PM MrSunshine: was waiting to get an 7i76 but settled for a 7i92 as they were in stock on eusurplus and i didn thave to rebuild my cabinett atm =)
02:38 PM MrSunshine: no. .. what is the name of it
02:38 PM MrSunshine: the one with ethernet
02:39 PM MrSunshine: and 7i76e
02:39 PM roycroft: the 7i92 is a lot less expensive and almost as functional as the 7k76e
02:39 PM pcw--home: tcurdt If you look on the LinuxCNC forum there are some people that have LinuxCNC firmware for the common NVEM Mach Ethernet step/dir interface card
02:39 PM roycroft: 7i76e, rather
02:40 PM MrSunshine: and the fact that one can extend it with some io board etc later, its all good .. .its all in the enclosure anyways =)
02:40 PM tcurdt: pcw--home hence my wondering ... maybe using a stm32/esp32/teensie I still have ... and let linuxcnc tell it what to do and have the MCU just do the steps
02:40 PM tcurdt: "NVEM Mach Ethernet" I'll give that a search
02:40 PM tcurdt: thx!
02:41 PM * roycroft is wondering where the mesanet tee shirts are - he can't find any on the websites
02:41 PM * roycroft also can't find any linuxcnc tee shirts, or similar swag
02:42 PM roycroft: what's a fanboi to do without swag?
02:44 PM MrSunshine: get laid? :P
02:44 PM pcw--home: bbl
02:48 PM tcurdt: yeah, seems like the NVEM thingy is working with linuxcnc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgNUODyaqxI
02:48 PM tcurdt: how does the board compare to a mesa?
02:51 PM tcurdt: seems like it is actually using a stm32
02:53 PM tcurdt: seems like this is the firmware https://github.com/scottalford75/Remora-NVEM ... does not seem to be very popular
03:11 PM MrSunshine: ah nice, love projects like that =) cant imagine it will beat mesas if encoders etc is involved =) going to use stm32 on my emco compact 5 lathe to run grblhal, aseembled the controller board yesterday =) so ready for testing that stuff out also =)
03:17 PM unterhaus: I think remora in general is tempting, but I feel like it's just going to be a series of deprecated hardware
03:18 PM tcurdt: I am pretty sure it would be more than enough for me ... my only concern is support in the future
03:18 PM tcurdt: seems like a one man show
03:18 PM tcurdt: as cool as it might be - that's a red flag
03:19 PM tcurdt: on the other hand - what are the options. I am not going to be able to find a mesa anytime soon :)
03:21 PM MrSunshine: tcurdt, where are you located ?
03:21 PM tcurdt: MrSunshine Germany
03:22 PM MrSunshine: tcurdt, https://eusurplus.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_62
03:23 PM MrSunshine: some cards are in stock, atleast to sweden i had the card in under a week =)
03:26 PM tcurdt: I think I just searched for a recommended Mesa - and that was out of stock
03:28 PM MrSunshine: yeah the 7i76 etc is out of stock :/ and i think those would be the ideal atleast for new builds
03:28 PM tcurdt: and I wouldn't know what else to pick
03:35 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight[m]: ordered those medicine., would be funny if it cut down on dizzyness. i hope so
03:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: the theory for it helping with Covid brain fog is that is an antihistamine that cross the blood-brain barrier and helps reduce inflammation
03:37 PM XXCoder: heck if it just cuts it in half it'll be massive help
03:37 PM XXCoder: half might be actually enable me to run a little.
03:37 PM XXCoder: anyway back to main topic sorry heh
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S155541552100547X ask your doc
03:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: ^^
03:38 PM perry_j1987: how much could i sell my 7i96 for? they are out of stock? heh
03:39 PM XXCoder: thanks
03:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tcurdt: I think that people have been unaware of scotts port for LCNC on that board
03:41 PM tcurdt: The Mesa cards might be good - but how can one release so many different models. Geez. Completely lost in the lineup.
03:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.nvcnc.net/nvem.html
03:42 PM XXCoder: yeah so many options lol though if I recall right, theres 3 or 4 thats common though
03:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tcurdt: mesa has been around for quite some time, they sell to business uses more so than hobby CNC
03:42 PM XXCoder: capt not bad really, include it includes bopard, cable, psu for board, and pendant
03:43 PM XXCoder: is it MESA or some other?
03:44 PM tcurdt: CaptHindsight[m] yup ... the nvem would certainly be enough for me ... just not thrilled on the support story for the firmware
03:45 PM XXCoder: does lcnc support that thing? only shows shitty mach3
03:45 PM tcurdt: XXCoder with a custom firmware it does
03:45 PM XXCoder: it also only have $10 difference across 3 to 6 axis
03:45 PM XXCoder: as well as go 6 axis? lol add A and C
03:45 PM XXCoder: B too but as seperate module
03:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I think that the current Remora thread on the forums has info on work for the NVEM
03:46 PM XXCoder: saved link for now
03:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'll see what may be done to annouce what everyone is doing and get them together on the same forums vs the usual clandestine development :)
03:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oh good https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/44828-remora-ethernet-nvem-cnc-board
03:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tcurdt: OK so lots of devs on it already ^^
03:49 PM tcurdt: the repo shows only a single contributor
03:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the problem with STM32 boards right now is availability due to worldwide price gouging and shortages
03:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yeah scott is the main one with a bunch of others testing
03:50 PM tcurdt: like with everything :) ... but stock are still ok for those boards compared to the mesa
03:50 PM roycroft: s/shortages/artificial shortages/
03:50 PM roycroft: there, i fixed that for you
03:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it might make it into LCNC at some point in the future, it's only 3 months old
03:51 PM tcurdt: man, why am I always going for the bleeding edge 😂
03:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: tcurdt: yeah, why so many boards are being tested with Remora
03:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: be back later
03:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: also check out https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/44422-colorcnc-colorlight-5a-75e-5a-75b-as-fpga-controller-board
03:56 PM tcurdt: CaptHindsight[m] yeah, read about the colorlight board - but that seems to be even more of another DIY project. I need less of those - not more 😅
04:00 PM tcurdt: why is the 7i76 called a "daughtercard" ?
04:00 PM tcurdt: sounds like it needs another card?
04:01 PM roycroft: the 7176 needs to connect to a 5i25
04:04 PM MrSunshine: 7i76E i think is a fpga card ?
04:06 PM MrSunshine: the ones with parport connector is daughter cards, need like roycroft said 5i25 or 7i92 or sho
04:07 PM MrSunshine: while 7i76E is eithernet card, fpga card so it needs no "master" card
04:14 PM MrSunshine: oh well, now its nite nite ... hope JT-Cave will have stuff done tomorrow sometime so i can start testing my machine with the new hw =)
04:17 PM tcurdt: yeah, I was hoping for the 7i76E ... thanks for clearing this up MrSunshine
04:18 PM MrSunshine: listen to the noob =) yeah was 7i76E i wanted also, but those seem to be hard to come by atm =)
04:20 PM * roycroft blames canada
04:20 PM tcurdt: What I was wondering is whether the 7i92H or the 7i92M would also work as an alternative
04:23 PM t4nk_freenode: tcurdt, I played around with Remora for a while
04:23 PM tcurdt: t4nk_freenode uh, interesting! and?
04:23 PM t4nk_freenode: and Scott is a person.. he lives, and talks ;)
04:23 PM t4nk_freenode: and is a nice guy
04:24 PM tcurdt: I was hoping for all that :)
04:25 PM tcurdt: you mean I should shoot him a message?
04:25 PM t4nk_freenode: it works, but I switched back to grbl at some point because I needed to do some milling
04:25 PM roycroft: the same can be said for pcw
04:26 PM tcurdt: t4nk_freenode why did needing to do milling make you switch back?
04:26 PM t4nk_freenode: well, it would probably be best if you just start working on it yourself... and only shoot him a message if you have a specific issue
04:27 PM tcurdt: t4nk_freenode did you just flash the firmware binary and then just poke around? how much was working?
04:27 PM t4nk_freenode: well, I hadn't really worked with linuxcnc before and I didn't/don't know it enough to be sure of myself to use it in a project
04:27 PM * roycroft is already tired of this return of winter, and the week-long event has only just begun
04:28 PM tcurdt: roycroft got snow again?
04:29 PM t4nk_freenode: well, tcurdt, to be honest, you really need to do a bit of work on your own probably, because it all depends on what you need and what hardware you have youknow?
04:30 PM t4nk_freenode: I changed the code around for my needs, for example.. I cut out the sd card routine so I wouldn't need that
04:32 PM t4nk_freenode: basically you can get it all to work
04:32 PM t4nk_freenode: oh, and btw...
04:32 PM t4nk_freenode: index 0: idcode 0x1111043 manufacturer lattice family ECP5 model LFE5UM-25 irlength 8
04:32 PM t4nk_freenode: I connected my colorlight card last night ;)
04:33 PM tcurdt: t4nk_freenode you are seeking out new projects? :)
04:33 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah, that's what I like ;)
04:34 PM tcurdt: for me there is a point when there are too many :) which is why I am not so eager to dabble in yet another firmware
04:34 PM tcurdt: and if it was just using pio to build - but it's using STM32CubeIDE
04:35 PM tcurdt: before I open that can of worms I probably also go back to that old grbl board for now
04:35 PM roycroft: snow is back in the forecast for thursday morning
04:35 PM roycroft: it just changed
04:35 PM tcurdt: roycroft where are you?
04:35 PM roycroft: i'm in eugene oregon
04:36 PM roycroft: i hope that forecast does not hold true
04:36 PM tcurdt: fingers crossed :)
04:37 PM t4nk_freenode: tcurdt, Scott likes to use Mbed Studio himself to compile it
04:37 PM tcurdt: roycroft always wanted to drive up from SF to Seattle - but never happened
04:38 PM t4nk_freenode: and it can also be compiled with platformio
04:38 PM t4nk_freenode: however... a bit of knowhow is needed, whatever you decide on
04:38 PM _unreal_: got some of the big parts cut up at the end of the day today at work for this cnc machine
04:39 PM _unreal_: will be tuning them some time soon
04:39 PM tcurdt: t4nk_freenode you almost got me at least try it :)
04:39 PM t4nk_freenode: hint.. https://remora-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html start with that
04:40 PM tcurdt: _unreal_ don't get me started ... I got the jmc servos ... configuring those is yet another project
04:40 PM tcurdt: I should have just bought a cnc 😂
04:40 PM t4nk_freenode: and I mean.. it won't kill you or anything.. if you got an stm board lying around, why not give it a try
04:41 PM tcurdt: true that
04:41 PM t4nk_freenode: and if you had enough.. just yank the cables out ;)
04:42 PM tcurdt: a "Smoothieboard"?
04:42 PM tcurdt: interesting ... and a connection via SPI? ... interesting
04:43 PM t4nk_freenode: eh, you do have a Pi, right?
04:45 PM t4nk_freenode: well, the final piece of advice I can give you is; make Darned sure the leads for the spi comms are decent and short enough, or you will not be having a good time.
04:46 PM * tcurdt is still holding on to a spare RPi in these out-of-stock times
04:47 PM tcurdt: that said - I wasn't necessarily planing on using the RPi for linuxcnc
04:47 PM tcurdt: is it fast enough on a RPi?
04:48 PM t4nk_freenode: I'd say so
04:49 PM t4nk_freenode: thing with grbl is that you just need your stm32 board and you're done
04:50 PM tcurdt: you run grbl on a stm32?
04:50 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah
04:51 PM acer is now known as _unreal_
04:52 PM tcurdt: t4nk_freenode I was only aware of the avr and the esp32 version
04:52 PM tcurdt: what board?
04:52 PM _unreal_: ?
04:53 PM t4nk_freenode: I have it setup on an stm32f407vet6 board, same I use for Remora
05:05 PM Tom_L: sprinkler valves all serviced
05:05 PM roycroft: hopefully that will never matter
05:07 PM roycroft: unless these are underground sprinklers
05:11 PM Tom_L: yessir
05:11 PM Tom_L: changed the diapharam in one
05:11 PM Tom_L: cleaned the rest
05:32 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:45 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:07 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:07 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:16 PM flyback is now known as CARL_SAGAN
08:17 PM CARL_SAGAN is now known as flyback
11:48 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:48 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ