#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 24 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

04:47 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:55 AM Tom_L: morning
05:11 AM toulene9 is now known as toulene
06:37 AM JT-Cave: Robert Sorby contacted me about the rubber thingy splitting and is sending me replacements
08:10 AM unterhaus_: inventor of the GIF died. He said it "jif," because apparently "graphic" starts with a 'j' sound
08:12 AM CloudEvil: He's with Jod now.
09:22 AM roycroft: so gasoline just went down here by 20 cents/gallon yesterday, but is still more expensive than i have ever seen until the war started
09:54 AM perry_j1987: morning
11:07 AM Loetmichel_: *giggle* just got a call from a regular consultant. Started the talk with company stuff, half an hour later we went from joe logan and elon musk with a slight hitler detour to the kardaschew-scale for civilisations. Its really relaxing to talk with someone that has the same level ov knowledge and the same disregard for PC behaviour ;)
11:29 AM Loetmichel_ is now known as Loetmichel
12:34 PM unterhaus_: amazon promised to deliver some stuff tomorrow. Will be interesting to see if they screw me over again
12:34 PM roycroft: i have decided that i'm too geeky
12:35 PM roycroft: i came home yesterday from dinner, and found a bag of lead on my front porch - amazon had delivered it
12:35 PM roycroft: and i was excited to have a bag of lead
12:35 PM roycroft: i think there might be something wrong with me
12:35 PM unterhaus_: what's the bag of lead for?
12:35 PM XXCoder: eating
12:35 PM unterhaus_: lollipops?
12:36 PM XXCoder: thats why hes happy, it was on time for meal
12:36 PM roycroft: i'm making some mallets, primarily for assembly work, and i want to add some weight to them
12:36 PM unterhaus_: didn't we just have a discussion about how some lead is sweet?
12:36 PM XXCoder: lol roy thats awesome
12:36 PM roycroft: so i got some small lead shot, and i'll embed it in epoxy in some hollows in the mallets
12:36 PM unterhaus_: is it lead shot?
12:36 PM roycroft: yes
12:36 PM unterhaus_: sorry, typing at the same time
12:36 PM roycroft: and the balls are bout 1mm in diameter
12:36 PM roycroft: about
12:37 PM roycroft: i think they'll work out nicely
12:37 PM unterhaus_: I want to make a hammer, all the cool kids on insta are doing it
12:37 PM XXCoder: likely. making mallets or existing?
12:37 PM roycroft: making new ones
12:38 PM XXCoder: nice
12:38 PM unterhaus_: dead blow hammers have loose balls, right?
12:38 PM Tom_L: yes
12:40 PM unterhaus_: XXCoder, took my MPMV2 apart for upgrades. Hoping to get it back together and working soon
12:40 PM unterhaus_: haven't quite doubled the $ yet
12:40 PM XXCoder: easiest way to double the $ is fold dollars over ;)
12:40 PM XXCoder: nice though
12:42 PM unterhaus_: you can only fold a $ bill over 7 times unless you have a hydraulic press
12:42 PM unterhaus_: but I'm not sure how many folds they got before it exploded
12:43 PM XXCoder: mythbuster busted that
12:43 PM XXCoder: its more like "depends on thickness and size of sheet"
12:50 PM fenugrec: Hi, I setup linuxcnc on a box around 2015, and was able to update linuxcnc to v 2.7.15. However the underlying OS is still ubuntu 10.* something I think... So old that I can't SSH to my local server to transfer files anymore. A while back I tried the newer linuxcnc based on a different kernel 'type' (IIRC), but it produced unacceptable jitter on my machine. Is there an upgrade path I can try that
12:50 PM fenugrec: would keep the 'old' style kernel but with a more up-to-date OS ?
12:54 PM unterhaus_: the original people showed it didn't much depend on the size, they did it with a huge piece of paper
12:55 PM unterhaus_: fenugrec, I think there is still an RTAI ISO available, it's a little stale though
12:56 PM unterhaus_: there is a bug, but IIRC it only shows up when quitting lcnc
12:56 PM fenugrec: right, it was a matter of RTAI vs PREEMPT-RT, as I understand
12:57 PM unterhaus_: if you are doing software stepping, it's probably best to have rtai unless you have an unusual system
12:58 PM fenugrec: I do - parallel port controls stepper, and rs232 talks to a PLC for housekeeping and misc stuff
12:58 PM unterhaus_: for the cost of a 7i92, you can go to ethernet and keep almost everything
12:58 PM unterhaus_: and use rtpreempt
12:59 PM fenugrec: that is an option I need to look at, indeed
12:59 PM unterhaus_: the availability of hardware like that is definitely putting a strain on how much people want to work on parport stuff
12:59 PM fenugrec: oh I see what you mean. I was thinking of the PCI / PCIe mesa cards
01:00 PM unterhaus_: yeah, the 26 port mesa stuff is laid out just like a parport
01:02 PM fenugrec: I kindof want to connect the host box to local LAN, and I'd be wary of connecting a motion-control card on the same net. I'd sleep better with an internal interface I think
01:03 PM fenugrec: interesting, their PCIe 6i25 is more expensive than the PCI 5i25
01:04 PM roycroft: fenugrec: i do not want any device that can control machines to be on the internet
01:04 PM roycroft: but i do want my linuxcnc machines to be on my local network
01:04 PM roycroft: an easy way to accomplish that is to give the linuxcnc machines a bogus gateway address
01:05 PM roycroft: so if you're on, and your gateway is, assign the linuxcnc machine a gateway of
01:05 PM fenugrec: that's not bulletproof, but better than having the motion card sitting at yes
01:05 PM roycroft: it will never reach the internet
01:05 PM roycroft: directly, at least
01:05 PM roycroft: but the rest of your local network can reach it
01:06 PM roycroft: i also filter the linuxcnc subnet on my firewall
01:06 PM roycroft: because i'm very much a belt and suspenders kind of person
01:06 PM fenugrec: we can argue about how much risk we're taking having the linuxcnc machine on the same lan, but as usual, convenience scores high
01:06 PM roycroft: it's my lan
01:06 PM roycroft: and i have no employees working here at the moment
01:06 PM fenugrec: *same lan as other internet-connected machines
01:07 PM roycroft: if i had employees then things would be much different
01:08 PM roycroft: the average linuxcnc user, i suspect (based on hanging around here for many years) has their linuxcnc machine internet accessible
01:08 PM roycroft: many folks say they like to browse the web, etc. on their linuxcnc machine
01:08 PM roycroft: filtering at the firewall and using a bogus gateway is much much safer than that
01:08 PM roycroft: but certinly does not eliminate all risk
01:09 PM roycroft: risk mitigation is almost never binary
01:24 PM fenugrec: eh, I could also just get into the habit of walking to/from the machine with a USB key, and save trouble, time and money...
01:28 PM perry_j1987: mine are not online
01:28 PM perry_j1987: usb key for me
01:46 PM mrec_: did anyone wire up a spindle encoder with linuxcnc via parallel port?
01:46 PM fenugrec: mrec_, that's how my machine is setup, yes
01:47 PM mrec_: in the linuxcnc scope it seems like it's missing index steps, or could that be an optical issue?
01:47 PM mrec_: the RPMs seem to be okay (counting via encoder 512ppr)
01:48 PM fenugrec: that, or your config.... and some LPT pins are unidirectional
01:49 PM mrec_: I never saw the index indicator toggling the colour, while the pase-A indicator at least does something
01:49 PM mrec_: phase-A
01:49 PM fenugrec: try swapping pins phase A and index to rule out the software side
01:49 PM mrec_: I see the index in the linuxcnc scope
01:50 PM fenugrec: you said it was missing earlier ?
01:50 PM mrec_: the pulse is only 500uS is that enough?
01:51 PM mrec_: it's there but might miss some pulses I only set up the rpm counter via the 512ppr signals)
01:51 PM mrec_: I don't know if the missing pulses are an optical thing in the linuxcnc scope
01:52 PM mrec_: I'm using an A1333 (Allegro magnetic encoder)
01:52 PM mrec_: I also ordered an optical encoder with 400ppr
01:53 PM mrec_: the allegro part supports 2^14-N (0..N) ppr
01:53 PM mrec_: fenugrec: do you know how long an index pulse should be to be recognized?
01:54 PM mrec_: linuxcnc should be able to handle 14khz via parallel port
01:55 PM mrec_: even 10khz should be enough to see the index pulse.
01:56 PM fenugrec: depends on your BASE_PERIOD and other stuff IIRC. Don't know, haven't messed with any of that in years
02:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: mrec_: "might miss some pulses" "he pulse is only 500uS" how do you know that the index pulse is that length? Are you using a LPT port and BOB for this?
02:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how fast is the encoder spinning?
02:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the USA has only about 150 pcb fabs, maybe it's time to start some new ones?
02:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.eetimes.com/us-electronics-reshoring-plan-risks-missing-the-boat/
02:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC controlled PCB drills/routers are pretty easy to make
02:47 PM perry_j1987: time for osh park to step it up eh?
02:52 PM roycroft: "since it has been proven that the vaccine not only works, but has actually killed tens of thousands of people, and the fda is covering that up along with the government, are you going to change your vaccine policy?"
02:52 PM roycroft: where do folks get that?
02:52 PM roycroft: er
02:52 PM roycroft: it said "not only doesn't work"
02:52 PM CloudEvil: facebook
02:53 PM roycroft: where does facebook get it?
02:53 PM roycroft: out of zuckerberg's arse?
02:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: perry_j1987: nope, for reshoring manufacturing
02:54 PM roycroft: facebook has accomplished one thing, that's for certain - it has simplified the english language by removing the word "nuance"
02:54 PM perry_j1987: isnt oshpark making boards stateside?
03:00 PM CaptHindsight[m]: perry_j1987: have a link to the address?
03:01 PM perry_j1987: at least that was my perception of osh park
03:01 PM perry_j1987: i always thought they were stateside mfg
03:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: oshpark won't be good for mil spec orders
03:01 PM perry_j1987: Our purple boards are manufactured in the USA and shipped free to anywhere in the world.
03:03 PM perry_j1987: https://medium.com/@CyrChristina/think-osh-park-pcbs-are-made-in-china-e88605760977
03:07 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://medium.com/@CyrChristina/think-osh-park-pcbs-are-made-in-china-e88605760977
03:11 PM roycroft: china owns the us now
03:11 PM roycroft: so made in china is really made in usa
03:12 PM XXCoder: china is olviously god, because they make everything
03:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: their website is too short on details
03:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: so who knows
03:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: try to find their actual street address
03:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yet OSH park comments about they had suppliers trying to sub contract work to China
03:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I get how they have to dumb down the website for hobbyists
03:18 PM mrec_: CaptHindsight[m]: oscilloscope
03:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but there could still be a section for pros
03:20 PM mrec_: XXCoder: they do that because their system is made to be that way
03:20 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight[m], there was a pcb fab just a few blocks from me that closed some time back
03:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: XXCoder: well i can see and touch China so you're on to something there
03:20 PM XXCoder: lol
03:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: smell and hear it as well :)
03:21 PM mrec_: anyway tomorrow I'll do some more tests with the index pulse
03:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but isn't a God supposed to be invisible and angry?
03:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: western god anyway
03:22 PM Tom_L: when i dealt with Laen (osh) i did it purely by email to him
03:22 PM Tom_L: since then i guess he's fluffed up his website
03:23 PM roycroft: if china is god, isn't all the junk they dump on us a sign of anger?
03:23 PM XXCoder: lol
03:24 PM Tom_L: just rewards
03:25 PM roycroft: i won't argue that point
03:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: only a handful of USA small spindle manufacturers
03:25 PM Tom_L: fenugrec, about RTAI: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#cha:Installing-RTAI
03:26 PM JT-Shop: I assume when FedEx lists your package as delayed they lost it?
03:27 PM Tom_L: they're just having a WTF moment
03:28 PM Tom_L: i did find out if you pay for overnite shipping with them and they don't deliver, they won't refund anything
03:29 PM JT-Shop: wonderful
03:29 PM Tom_L: however if you paid by cc the cc company can win that for you :)
03:29 PM Tom_L: it's on their website but they mislead you at the local counter
03:29 PM fenugrec: Tom_L, thanks. I may look into it eventually but right now I'm opting for laziness + not breaking current setup
03:30 PM Tom_L: get a spare ssd and go for it
03:34 PM roycroft: jt-shop: no, delayed with them usually means just that
03:35 PM roycroft: i don't recall fedex every actually losing something
03:36 PM roycroft: it's happened with ups a couple times, and with usps far too frequently
03:39 PM Tom_L: roycroft, you did see the movie...
03:42 PM roycroft: which one?
03:43 PM * roycroft has seen many
03:44 PM Tom_L: cast away
03:44 PM JT-Shop: lol
03:47 PM roycroft: i don't recall that film
03:47 PM roycroft: hmm
03:48 PM roycroft: it's a tom hanks film
03:48 PM roycroft: i like tom hanks
03:48 PM roycroft: perhaps i should check it out
03:49 PM * roycroft adds to his wish list
03:49 PM roycroft: $6.99 new on blu-ray, and $1.99 used
03:50 PM JT-Shop: it's a good film
03:50 PM roycroft: as i said, i like tom hanks
03:50 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i've seen anything he's done that i don't like
03:52 PM Tom_L: not alot of dialog
03:56 PM JT-Shop: Wilson
03:57 PM Tom_L: i've seen (sat on) the bench he sat on in forest gump
03:57 PM Tom_L: unfortunately it's not there now... vandalism
03:57 PM Tom_L: saw the church etc.. all shot around savannah
03:58 PM roycroft: i've never been to svannah
03:58 PM roycroft: i'd have liked to go years ago, but i'm not terribly interested in that part of the country these days
03:58 PM Tom_L: my inlaws are down there so i've been several times
03:59 PM roycroft: i'm too settled in the west
04:00 PM roycroft: atlanta is the only part of georgia i've been in, other than traveling through to florida
04:00 PM perry_j1987: i stil havnt made it down to the south
04:01 PM roycroft: i don't even go to southern california
04:01 PM roycroft: much less east and south
04:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: wow F Gump is nearly 30 years ago
04:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and wow again, i just checked the irc logs against what matrix decides to log and it misses half the posts
05:28 PM coralgoat: I went into the shop to try and get Linuxcnc working on a CNC machine.
05:29 PM coralgoat: I have Linuxcnc installed on a x86 computer there.
05:29 PM coralgoat: The shop has very limited information on this CNC machine.
05:29 PM coralgoat: They gave me these two links for information about the machine:
05:29 PM coralgoat: https://www.china-cncrouter.com/products/Mach3-USB-CNC-6040-3-Axis-4-Axis-Mini-CNC-Router-with-1500W-2200W-Spindle-Sink-Cooling-System-and-Z.html
05:29 PM coralgoat: https://www.china-cncrouter.com/downfile/2015120416433598141.pdf
05:29 PM coralgoat: The CNC machine is different than what is in those links.
05:29 PM coralgoat: It has a separate spindle controller.
05:29 PM coralgoat: The breakout board is in a blue box with fewer connections and controls.
05:29 PM coralgoat: The blue box that contains the parallel port breakout board had a driver model on the outside and when I did an internet search for it I did not find any documentation about the pinout.
05:29 PM coralgoat: I opened the blue box that the breakout board was in and did not see a part number on the top of the parallel port breakout board.
05:29 PM coralgoat: The parallel port breakout board was fastened to a heatsink on the bottom (I did not check the bottom of it for a part number).
05:29 PM coralgoat: roycroft, the other day you asked "will you be using stepper motors or servo motors?".
05:30 PM coralgoat: https://www.china-cncrouter.com/products/Mach3-USB-CNC-6040-3-Axis-4-Axis-Mini-CNC-Router-with-1500W-2200W-Spindle-Sink-Cooling-System-and-Z.html says it has stepper motors.
05:30 PM coralgoat: The PDF link above has some information about setting it up with Mach3 but I want to use Linuxcnc.
05:30 PM coralgoat: I am not sure how to figure out the parallel port setup in stepconf.
05:30 PM coralgoat: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/config/stepconf.html#_parallel_port_setup
05:30 PM coralgoat: I tried Sherline but was unable to jog the X, Y or Z axis when everything was connected and powered on.
05:30 PM coralgoat: How do I figure out what to put for the output and input pins?
05:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: are you still trying to use that controller?
05:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: do you have a picture of the PCB with component side up?
05:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.china-cncrouter.com/upfile/images/11/20170508174711770.jpg is this inside that box?
05:38 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], I am not in the shop but I will go back in tomorrow.
05:38 PM coralgoat: I can take some pictures of the inside of the box then.
05:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: coralgoat: ^^^
05:40 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], I am just going by memory right now but I think it looked a lot like https://www.china-cncrouter.com/upfile/images/11/20170508174711770.jpg
05:40 PM coralgoat: it being the parallel port breakout board.
05:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: coralgoat: that board is not a breakput board
05:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's a 3 axis stepper driver board with a parallel port
05:43 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], thank you for correcting me. I am still learning the correct names for things related to CNC.
05:43 PM unterhaus_: thread about that board on the forum https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/35628-basic-configuration-for-a-chinese-6040-cnc-router-please?start=10
05:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: in addition to that it looks like it would have to do some buffering since as shown in the picture it has a USB to LPT cable
05:45 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], the shop admin has already okayed an upgrade to PCIe parallel port card and parallel port cable. Removing the need to use USB.
05:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and have cleverly concealed many of the parts from view by the cable
05:49 PM coralgoat: unterhaus_, I am reading that forum thread. Thanks for linking it.
05:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the pinout is in that link that unterhaus_ has just posted
05:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I didn't see if the inputs are active low or high so you might have to fiddle with that
05:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/24974/jp31.jpg
05:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/21555/jp3163b-6040cnc-002.jpeg
06:00 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], When you said " I didn't see if the inputs are active low or high so you might have to fiddle with that" do you mean by toggling the invert checkbox?
06:03 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], thanks for those links.
06:11 PM coralgoat: What is A step and A direction?
06:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: coralgoat: " toggling the invert checkbox" are you referring to using stepconf?
06:12 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], Yes
06:12 PM coralgoat: stepconf
06:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm not sure if you can get all your required settings correct using Stepconf
06:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you might have to manually edit your config and hal files in Linuxcnc
06:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/stepconf.html
06:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_config.html
06:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "coralgoat: What is A step and A direction?" these are fro the A axis
06:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you don't have an A axis, only X, Y and Z
06:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: * coralgoat: "What is A step and A direction?" these are for the A axis
06:17 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], okay I will look at those parts of the documentation as preparation for editing those files.
06:19 PM coralgoat: The machine does not have limit switches.
06:20 PM coralgoat: Would I ignore 11, 12, 13 for the limit switches. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/21555/jp3163b-6040cnc-002.jpeg
06:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://en.cncarea.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/02/Standard-orientation-of-planes-and-CNC-machine-tool-axes.png
06:24 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], yes that picture shows my understanding of X, Y, Z axis I have from CAD modeling.
06:25 PM coralgoat: So is A the rotation on the X axis?
06:27 PM coralgoat: Should limit switches be added to this machine before using it further?
06:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes
06:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Should is up to you and how observant you are of commands and positions :)
06:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: some others have crashed and even twisted machines apart by not having limit switches and not having the machine properly assembled while doing some destructive jogging or rapid moves
06:33 PM coralgoat: I will need to look into buying some limit switches.
06:33 PM coralgoat: What is a good search term for limit switches that would work with this machine?
06:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have small machines without limits that are >10 years old that if crashed into their end stops don't hurt anything
06:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you just have to re-home and go on with your day
06:38 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], okay thanks for sharing your insights on limit switches.
06:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: coralgoat: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Limit-Switches/zgbs/industrial/5739467011
06:40 PM coralgoat: CaptHindsight[m], thanks for sharing that link.
06:41 PM coralgoat: I will watch this assembly video https://disk.yandex.com/i/1sg75x8N3PSZgY linked to in the forum post to see if they show how to install limit switches.
06:44 PM coralgoat: That video does not show how to install limit switches.
06:47 PM coralgoat: From this pinout picture what are:
06:47 PM coralgoat: 14 X, Y, Z, A axis enabled
06:48 PM coralgoat: 15, IN15 Tool setting
06:48 PM coralgoat: ?
06:48 PM coralgoat: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/21555/jp3163b-6040cnc-002.jpeg
08:20 PM infornography: ya'll are pretty ok, don't forget
09:43 PM * roycroft feels marvelous, simply marvelous
10:45 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:02 PM mrec_: is there a way to display the current angle of the spindle?