#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 28 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:14 AM randy: morning
04:33 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:08 AM JT-Cave: I ditched photobucket years ago
06:32 AM Loetmichel: gnihihi... showed the "holding the soldering iron on the tip onto the plastik part of a cpu socket" picture to a co-worker (also EE)... "yeah, i know a few fellow students from university that would find nothing wrong with that picture. $me "Same, sadly". Sometimes it feels good bickering with similar knowledgeable people about the "less fortunately gifted" ones. :)
08:14 AM unterhausen: I stopped uploading to photobucket years ago, I think I previously downloaded all of the existing ones, but I was going to check
08:14 AM unterhausen: and instead the put up a screen that said my two options were to pay or delete my account
08:16 AM unterhausen: you can go directly to your account in various ways. Do I d/l to be safe and then deleted all my pics from there and asked for it to be deleted
08:17 AM unterhausen: JT-Cave, if you had a process that requires a step-dir spindle and 3 step-dir linear axis, would you still use an automation direct plc?
08:18 AM unterhausen: for their cheap ones, I only see 2 axis step dir
08:18 AM JT-Cave: usually for steppers I use a Mesa card
08:19 AM JT-Cave: I've used an ad stepper driver for the shooting range target systems
08:20 AM JT-Cave: are you wanting to send step and direction from the plc?
08:24 AM JT-Cave: the BX series has high speed outputs
08:24 AM JT-Cave: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/programmable_controllers/do-more_series_(brx,_h2,_t1h)_plcs_(micro_modular_-a-_stackable)/brx_series_plcs_(stackable_micro_brick)/motion_-a-_specialty_modules/bx-hsio2
08:25 AM * JT-Cave wanders off to start his chicken day
08:32 AM unterhausen: Thanks, I don't think I'm going to be able to talk the client into a mesa, even if there were any
08:34 AM unterhausen: I don't know if I can talk him into a plc, but that's what he needs. It's all one task after another, no coordinated motion
08:51 AM roycroft: otoh, we had a high temperature of 3 degrees late last week
08:51 AM roycroft: last night, the low was 12
08:52 AM roycroft: i'll take water over cold any day
10:12 AM perry_j1987: morning
11:14 AM perry_j1987: quiet today
11:26 AM gp5st: Can the HAL be turned into an HDL (i.e. VHDL or Verilog) and then the real-time components would be FPGA-based? Could be interesting to work on if it doesn't exist; I wish I had more time and drive in my life. So many ideas, so little motivation, and even less time.
11:40 AM JT-Cave: unterhausen, a pc with a parallel port, breakout card and cheap stepper drives is a low as you can go in cost
11:40 AM JT-Cave: you can do a HAL only setup to move the steppers
11:41 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/examples/winder.zip
11:53 AM roycroft: i have a hard time understanding why folks invest all the money building a cnc machine and then balk at spending $100-$200 for a mesa card, when a bob + parallel card will cost them at least $75 or so
11:54 AM roycroft: but i don't understand a lot of things
11:54 AM XXCoder: roy BOB and tb6600s cost me less than $30
11:54 AM XXCoder: or $40?
11:54 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A12_New/Mods/A12_blocks.jpg
11:54 AM Tom_L: new blade helped a bunch
11:54 AM roycroft: even so
11:55 AM roycroft: the cost difference between a bob + parallel card and a mesa card is usually just a couple percent of the total cost of the build
11:55 AM roycroft: i get being frugal
11:55 AM XXCoder: yeah. though I was building cnc slowly and parting in, since it was before I had cnc machinist job
11:56 AM roycroft: but when it comes at the cost of proper function, it doesn't make sense to me
11:58 AM roycroft: and xxcoder: many system boards do not come with parallel ports these days, so you often have to add $15-$30 for a pci parallel port board in addition to the bob
11:58 AM roycroft: that's where i get my $75 number
11:58 AM XXCoder: my old pc did, so that wasnt a issue for me
11:58 AM roycroft: right, but that's not generally the case these days
11:59 AM roycroft: and since linuxcnc runs fine on rpis now, an rpi4 + mesa board is a lot cheaper than a pc + bob
11:59 AM XXCoder: yeah'
11:59 AM XXCoder: I have rpi4, so I'd probably rebuild my cnc router
11:59 AM XXCoder: get longer nemas too
11:59 AM roycroft: the problem there being that rpi4 and mesa boards are almost impossible to source these days
11:59 AM XXCoder: ones on it is bit underpowered
11:59 AM XXCoder: thankfully I bought one before shortage :D
12:00 PM Tom_L: what about the drivers?
12:00 PM roycroft: you need those in either case
12:00 PM Tom_L: if he upgrades his steppers will the drivers handle them
12:00 PM XXCoder: im sure can use tb660s with mesa
12:01 PM Tom_L: mine are 5A which eliminates alot of the cheap drivers
12:01 PM roycroft: i'm just talking about a new build right now
12:01 PM Tom_L: well we all know gecko is the way to go
12:01 PM roycroft: that's what i bought
12:02 PM roycroft: although not their top of the line drivers
12:02 PM Tom_L: same rating though
12:02 PM roycroft: i have g-201x
12:02 PM Tom_L: 80V 7A peak
12:02 PM roycroft: yes
12:02 PM Tom_L: just not as well protected
12:02 PM XXCoder: bit diffult for me to do anything, no room
12:02 PM roycroft: and that's the other thing i don't understand
12:02 PM XXCoder: but i do want to rebuild router
12:03 PM roycroft: folks who buy cheap drivers, blow them up, and when advised to get geckos, complain about the price
12:03 PM Tom_L: buy me once or buy me twice
12:03 PM roycroft: well a gecko driver that doesn't fail is a lot cheaper than blowing up bargain drivers multiple times, which some folks seem to do
12:04 PM roycroft: the reasoning seems to be "i don't want to pay for the thing that works. i want to pay for cheap crap and then complain when it doesn't work properly"
12:06 PM JT-Shop: then buy the good stuff wasting the money they spent on the cheap stuff
12:07 PM roycroft: the smart ones do
12:07 PM roycroft: the not so smart ones keep buying crap and keep complaining about it
12:08 PM JT-Shop: well Panasonic had the servo cables I need in stock so get them next week
12:09 PM roycroft: nice
12:12 PM gp5st: what is a bob?
12:17 PM roycroft: break out board
12:17 PM roycroft: for isolating and routing the signals from the parallel port to the motion control drivers
12:19 PM gp5st: gotcha
01:43 PM roycroft: hmm, now that festool have that spiffy new track saw out nobody wants to buy the old version on the recon site
01:43 PM roycroft: it does't help that they're selling it for only 20% off the new price
01:43 PM roycroft: it should be 30% off, since it's obsolete product
02:16 PM unterhausen: XXCoder, what kind of tb6600 did you get?
02:17 PM XXCoder: stand alone type, modules.
02:17 PM XXCoder: it cost me uhh 4 or 5 usd? each? been a while
02:17 PM unterhausen: from alibaba?
02:17 PM XXCoder: aliexpress yeah
02:18 PM unterhausen: problem with client will be talking him into using linux, you get fearful of unknown at age 78
02:19 PM XXCoder: ?
02:19 PM unterhausen: he's used to winder
02:19 PM unterhausen: winderz
02:20 PM unterhausen: I think a 7i92 and 7i96 is going to get everything working with the least amount of hassle
02:20 PM XXCoder: honestly tb6600 isnt best, its better to get better drivers if youre making prod machine
02:23 PM unterhausen: decent drives don't cost much
02:23 PM unterhausen: tbh, I'm not used to working with cheapskates
02:31 PM roycroft: yeah, but linux is easy to deal with
02:31 PM roycroft: it's windows that is difficult
02:32 PM unterhausen: people don't see it that way
02:32 PM roycroft: people are often wrong :)
02:32 PM unterhausen: this guy is wrong a lot
02:33 PM roycroft: ooh
02:33 PM roycroft: my vacuum pump foot pedal kit just arrived
02:33 PM unterhausen: I really lost a lot of enthusiasm for the project after I found out how cheap he is
02:42 PM roycroft: penny wise is all too often pound foolish
02:42 PM roycroft: this is so nice
02:42 PM roycroft: it's a latching vacuum control pedal, and it's very heavy duty
02:42 PM roycroft: i am going to enjoy using it, and i know i'm really going to enjoy having a vacuum clamping system for wherever i need it
02:42 PM roycroft: it's going to cut sanding time down by a lot
02:42 PM roycroft: https://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Vacuum-Clamping-Add-On.html
02:42 PM roycroft: i've been wanting that since forever
02:42 PM CloudEvil: :)
02:44 PM unterhausen: that vacuum pedal is pretty cool. I keep wanting to work with vacuum clamping and just never have a compelling reason
02:45 PM roycroft: for right now i am going to use it for bench work
02:45 PM roycroft: but longer term i may use it on my cnc router
02:46 PM roycroft: i just got some of these during rockler's founders' days sale:
02:46 PM roycroft: https://www.rockler.com/rockler-vacuum-clamp-pod-kit
02:46 PM roycroft: they're nice - they can be daisy-chained, and they fit in t-track
02:47 PM roycroft: i don't like the barbed fittings though
02:47 PM roycroft: i'm installing quick disconnects on all the vacuum lines, so i can reconfigure quickly
02:47 PM roycroft: and i was advised to ditch clear vacuum hoses and get blue ones
02:48 PM roycroft: clear ones can be hard to see and can easily get nicked by cutting tools, often with disasterous results
02:48 PM roycroft: fortunately, veneersupplies.com have blue vacuum hose for a good price, so i got some of that along with the pedal and quick disconnects
02:50 PM unterhausen: client wants to go with an arduino
02:50 PM unterhausen: what software do people usually use with a ramps? Mendel?
02:51 PM JT-Shop: C
02:53 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Vacuum_Pump.jpeg
02:54 PM roycroft: that's the vacuum pump i made
02:54 PM roycroft: sorry about the messy shop
02:54 PM roycroft: man, that picture is from the olden days(tm), when my brew system still lived in the shop
03:03 PM unterhausen: I have 2 vacuum pumps I picked up from somewhere.
03:06 PM unterhausen: klipper sounds pretty neat
03:06 PM internut_: so, the vacuum pump has a tank attached?
03:08 PM roycroft: yes
03:09 PM roycroft: it's a venturi based pump that i connect to my air compressor
03:09 PM roycroft: and the tank keeps it from cycling constantly
03:09 PM roycroft: when i'm using vacuum bags for glueups, when i get a good seal on the bag it only cycles once an hour or so
03:12 PM internut_: I see, that's cool
03:13 PM internut_: I've experimented with vacuum bagging fiberglass
03:17 PM roycroft: my setup works brilliantly
03:17 PM internut_: that's awesome
03:17 PM roycroft: i have a 5hp 2 stage compressor with a 60 gallon tank
03:17 PM roycroft: it provides plenty of air to run the vacuum pump
03:17 PM internut_: yeah, I have a compressor I bought for $15 at a yard sale
03:17 PM roycroft: and the nice thing is, it's silent, unlike having a conventional vacuum pump next to you
03:17 PM internut_: :)
03:18 PM roycroft: the compressor lives in a shed next to my shop, and while i can hear it when it's cycling, it doesn't cycle often
03:18 PM internut_: I see
03:18 PM roycroft: as well, when the vacuum pump cycles, all i hear is hissing air for a few seconds
03:18 PM * roycroft likes quiet machines
03:19 PM internut_: dang it my cloud computer is down again
03:19 PM roycroft: i'd like to rebuild that vacuum pump to make the plumbing a bit more compact
03:19 PM internut_: I'm going to need to re-install it
03:20 PM roycroft: now that i'm using it often it kind of gets in the way sometimes
03:20 PM internut_: I have a vacuum table for mounting photographs
03:20 PM internut_: and a vacuum pot that I want to try freeze drying in
03:21 PM roycroft: i could easily decrease the length of the plumbing run, bring the vaccum gauge way down, and put an elbow on the air inlet so i can cut down that length as well
03:22 PM internut_: it's okay
03:22 PM internut_: premature optimization is not your friend
03:22 PM internut_: you made it work
03:22 PM roycroft: when i made it, like 15 years ago, i did not anticipate using it often, and i did not even think about compactness
03:23 PM roycroft: yes, and it still works brilliantly
03:23 PM roycroft: but now it is time to make it better
03:24 PM internut_: I have a gast vacuum pump
03:24 PM internut_: and it has those 'jars' on the inlet and outlet
03:24 PM internut_: to make sure nothing gets sucked it
03:24 PM internut_: to make sure nothing gets sucked in
03:24 PM roycroft: and it won't cost much to make the improvements, in both time and money
03:24 PM internut_: and I broke one
03:24 PM internut_: and I can't find a replacement
03:24 PM internut_: (that isn't $90)
03:25 PM roycroft: bummer
03:25 PM internut_: I was thinking of just taking the other jar to the grocery store
03:25 PM internut_: and seeing if I could find a match
03:25 PM roycroft: i would not recommend doing that
03:26 PM internut_: >
03:26 PM internut_: ?
03:26 PM roycroft: unless you don't mind possibly having an implosion with shards of glass flying everywhere
03:26 PM internut_: On the outlet side, there's no pressure
03:27 PM roycroft: even if it's clogged?
03:27 PM internut_: seems unlikely
03:27 PM roycroft: ok
03:27 PM internut_: again, just mounting the occasional photograph
03:27 PM roycroft: i'm not picturing exactly what the jars are doing
03:28 PM roycroft: but if they ever see any pressure differential, either positive or negative, i'd be concerned about what i use to replace them
03:28 PM internut_: https://gastmfg.com/products/2565/2565-v2a
03:29 PM internut_: I assume on the inlet side, it's to avoid sucking anything into the pump
03:29 PM internut_: (or lubrication)
03:30 PM roycroft: ok, they are doing what i anticipated
03:30 PM internut_: and that is?
03:30 PM roycroft: and if the filter elements ever get clogged, there will be a substantial pressure differential
03:31 PM XXCoder: unless it has emergacy gasket which opens if it goes past certain point
03:33 PM roycroft: those jars don't look particularly heavy-duty
03:33 PM roycroft: but they may be tempered
03:33 PM roycroft: which would render them safer
03:34 PM internut_: honestly, I don't think they're anything special
03:34 PM internut_: and the one that broke, didn't break like tempered glass
03:34 PM roycroft: possibly gast assume that you'll be servicing the filters properly
03:35 PM roycroft: i would never suggest spending $90 if it's just a $2 jar with an $88 sticker on it
03:35 PM roycroft: but i'd want to be sure that's what it is before spending the $2 for the stickerless jar
03:35 PM roycroft: it could just be a mayonnaise jar
03:36 PM internut_: I used to work for a company that made meters.
03:36 PM internut_: they sold a lubricant
03:36 PM internut_: using anything else would void the warranty
03:36 PM roycroft: yeah
03:36 PM roycroft: that's illegal, but often done
03:36 PM roycroft: and often legally worked-around
03:36 PM internut_: the (this was in like 1978)
03:37 PM internut_: anyway, in 1978, 1oz was $16
03:37 PM roycroft: "you must use our lubricant or you void your warranty" is illegal
03:37 PM internut_: every once in a while, I'd go to the grocery store and buy a quart of mineral oil for $1
03:37 PM internut_: and fill 30 more of the 1 oz containers
03:38 PM roycroft: "you must use our lubricant or one that exactly matches the specifications of our lubricant or you void your warranty" is legal
03:38 PM roycroft: modifying the specifications of your lubricant slightly so that no others meet the new spec is shady but legal
03:38 PM internut_: well, this was 40+ years ago
03:39 PM roycroft: and people still do what you did
03:39 PM internut_: I've got a better one
03:39 PM internut_: a friend worked for a company that sold injection molding machines
03:39 PM internut_: there was a particular pin that would wear out
03:39 PM internut_: and they'd happily sell a new one for $20 or whatever
03:40 PM internut_: one day a disgruntled employee shipped the 'pin' to the customer without cutting the head and the point off
03:41 PM roycroft: so the customer headed down to the local sewing machine shop in the future
03:48 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:48 PM roycroft: i'm generally not a fan of using spare parts/consumables as a major profit center
03:48 PM roycroft: i guess that's why i'm not a fan of the printer/photocopier industry
03:48 PM internut_: it was a nail
03:48 PM roycroft: oh, a fat pin
03:48 PM internut_: yeah
03:49 PM roycroft: and if it was a nail, it was a shear pin, designed to break over time
04:01 PM internut_: yep
04:02 PM internut_: anyway, it's kinda dispicable
04:22 PM perry_j1987: ok where did i set my tap set now
04:22 PM perry_j1987: always lose that thing when i "put it away"
04:31 PM roycroft: you put it in the last place you'll check for it
04:31 PM roycroft: so think ahead to where you'll check last, and that's where it will be
04:32 PM perry_j1987: found it
04:33 PM perry_j1987: it was in a good spot lol
04:33 PM roycroft: drills and taps are things i keep close tabs on
04:45 PM roycroft: it's 16 degrees right now, and still getting warmer
04:45 PM roycroft: i might be able to open the big door in the shop after work for a bit
04:45 PM Tom_L: 69 here
04:45 PM roycroft: and the deluge has not commenced in earnest yet
04:46 PM roycroft: that comes tonight
04:46 PM roycroft: 28mm of rain tomorrow
04:46 PM * roycroft is so ready for it to be really spring
04:57 PM perry_j1987: im adding some bearings to the fingers on this lathe traveling rest
04:58 PM perry_j1987: tired of wearing the brass down and having to readjust heh
05:05 PM solarwind: gp5st also known as a "Robert"
05:30 PM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
07:25 PM roguish[m]: we got up to 73F today.............
07:25 PM XXCoder: 50f. constant, heavy rain
07:25 PM XXCoder: flood risk as usual
07:26 PM roycroft: yeah, we have flood watches all over the place
07:26 PM roycroft: the willamette, all its tributaries, almost all the coastal rivers
07:26 PM roycroft: but it's still warm
07:27 PM roycroft: and i was able to open the big door on the shop for the first time in a while today
07:27 PM roycroft: that was nice
07:27 PM roycroft: and that vacuum pedal works great!
07:27 PM roycroft: now i can pretend i'm a rock star while i'm sanding and stuff :)
07:28 PM XXCoder: fancy
07:28 PM roycroft: it's instant on and instant off for the workpieces
07:28 PM roycroft: it's really going to save a lot of time
07:29 PM roycroft: also, the vacuum pods hold the workpiece up off the bench, so if i need to round over/chamfer the edges i can run the router all the way around in one go