#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 19 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:03 AM Deejay: moin
04:17 AM Abanim20[m]: Hi, please how to setup mesa THCAD-300 to a high frequency plasma machine .
04:20 AM enleth: Abanim20[m]: do you have a specific problem that the manual (available on Mesa product page) did not help to fix?
05:15 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:26 AM Tom_L: morning
07:26 AM _unreal_: unterhaus, is it too big or too small?
07:27 AM _unreal_: unterhaus, I have always found 3d prints to be off by SCALE ether + or - 1-2%
07:28 AM _unreal_: My 3d printer makes everything 1.75% small so I have to up scale what ever I make in CURA by about that much
07:30 AM _unreal_: My printer is a delta but I dont know if the scale issue is a problem with the extrusion or the dimensions math in the delta printers controller.
07:36 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:55 AM unterhaus:
08:55 AM unterhaus:
08:55 AM unterhaus:
08:55 AM unterhaus:
08:55 AM unterhaus:
08:55 AM XXCoder: unterhaus: huh
08:55 AM unterhaus:
08:55 AM unterhaus:
08:56 AM unterhaus:
08:56 AM unterhaus:
08:56 AM unterhaus:
08:56 AM unterhaus:
08:56 AM unterhaus:
08:56 AM unterhaus: The amount of work adding relations and dimensions to that part to get if fully defined was pretty impressive
08:56 AM unterhaus:
08:56 AM unterhaus: I wish that would stop happening
08:56 AM unterhaus: I think my keyboard has a leak
08:56 AM unterhaus: not enough blinker fluid
08:57 AM XXCoder: lol
08:57 AM unterhaus: the line looks perfectly normal then I hit return and get that cascade of whatever it is
08:57 AM XXCoder: well id leave channel if acciently do that. it'll stpp spam
08:58 AM unterhaus: if I notice it happened, I kill the irc client and rejoin
08:58 AM unterhaus: just didn't this time
08:59 AM XXCoder: once pasted entire wiki page into channel lol had to close client
09:04 AM unterhaus: you closed the client because the spamming was ongoing?
09:05 AM XXCoder: yeah hexchat buffers and sends new line each second
09:05 AM Tom_L: good show unterhaus :)
09:05 AM XXCoder: wiki data was... very long
09:05 AM XXCoder: I was pasting it into file to test my excryption program homework
09:05 AM unterhaus: Tom_L moves all the joins/quits messages offscreen
09:06 AM XXCoder: but acciently pasted into wrong windpw
09:06 AM unterhaus: Tom_L would the log know if it's tabs or spaces?
09:06 AM Tom_L: let's ask
09:07 AM Tom_L: looks like spaces?
09:07 AM Tom_L: i don't think it logged em
09:07 AM unterhaus: okay, is that how it works?
09:07 AM unterhaus: I was wondering if it was carriage returns
09:07 AM XXCoder: some logs tend to trim spaces off
09:07 AM Tom_L: i guess
09:08 AM unterhaus: couldn't be that
09:08 AM Tom_L: open it in a hex editor
09:08 AM XXCoder: its value is 20
09:09 AM XXCoder: unicode for space
09:09 AM unterhaus: keyboard gets board, I guess. Doesn't happen when I'm next to it
09:09 AM unterhaus: bored
09:09 AM XXCoder: got a cat?
09:09 AM unterhaus: ghost cat
09:10 AM XXCoder: what client you use?
09:10 AM XXCoder: might be client bug
09:10 AM unterhaus: hexchat
09:10 AM unterhaus: on winders
09:10 AM XXCoder: hmm never happened to me
09:10 AM unterhaus: I figured out how to detect it
09:12 AM unterhaus: anyway, that part has so many dimensions and relations that soldiworks was complaining about it
09:17 AM unterhaus: https://imgur.com/Jp576n6
09:17 AM Tom_L: good god that's a mess
09:18 AM XXCoder: wow
09:18 AM Tom_L: i tried to find the one i did but i don't remember what i drew it in
09:18 AM Tom_L: probably catia
09:18 AM Tom_L: it was screw mount though, not snap in
09:18 AM Tom_L: for the board
09:18 AM unterhaus: yeah, if I drew it from scratch, I probably would have done multiple sketches
09:19 AM unterhaus: I would have left it partially defined, but you couldn't move the rail clips without messing it up
09:20 AM unterhaus: most of those dimensions are there just to move the rail clips .5mm
09:21 AM Tom_L: it's unreadable
09:21 AM unterhaus: well, some of us are special
09:21 AM unterhaus: some of us aren't
09:21 AM Tom_L: i would send it back and suspend the engineer!
09:21 AM unterhaus: it's never going to be machined
09:21 AM XXCoder: i always try to keep mine readable even if never will be machined
09:22 AM Tom_L: oooo cool... Ti Din rail clips!
09:22 AM unterhaus: now that it's fully defined, you can just change one global variable for a different board
09:22 AM Tom_L: yeah i've done that on some drawings
09:23 AM unterhaus: JT's clips mount the board the other way, I was thinking about making one of these to do that
09:23 AM Tom_L: just gotta be sure you start with the right feature
09:24 AM unterhaus: it was a bit painful, as it turns out you can't locate reference geometry with a global
09:24 AM Tom_L: also make a sliding parameter so you can not only change the board size but offset it if you want
09:24 AM unterhaus: offset the holes from the ends?
09:25 AM Tom_L: move the clips n all from the mount so you can move them left or right
09:25 AM unterhaus: you have a reason to do that?
09:26 AM Tom_L: nope
09:26 AM Tom_L: just a morning waking thought :)
09:27 AM Tom_L: if you mounted the rail too high instead of moving it you could reprint some new offset clips :)
09:27 AM unterhaus: I might make the clips so they are independent of the bottom. Won't be easy because you can't read the drawing
09:27 AM Tom_L: oh i thought you insinuated it was just me
09:28 AM unterhaus: you read that into what I typed, not my problem
09:28 AM Tom_L: heh
09:40 AM _unreal_: unterhaus, I have a logitech keyboard that starts putting out random key strokes.
09:41 AM _unreal_: no idea what is with it. been meaning to take it apart and see if there is crap in the membrain? or if its just the logic its self is f'ed
09:42 AM _unreal_: unterhaus, that image does not have enough dimensions.
09:47 AM unterhaus: I could add some reference dimensions, but it's fully defined
10:12 AM roycroft: reference dimensions are mostly gratuitous
10:12 AM roycroft: my cad instructors would have marked my work down if i had added any
10:16 AM unterhaus: nothing wrong with reference dimensions. I assume you would only get marked down if you put in redundant dimensions
10:16 AM unterhaus: cad doesn't let you do that though
10:17 AM unterhaus: the f16 drawings had a (ref) next to reference dimensions
10:18 AM unterhaus: solidworks makes them faint, which isn't obvious enough
10:32 AM unterhaus: weather service wasn't joking with that snow squall warning, can't see anything outside
10:33 AM unterhaus: cue a large number of crashes
10:34 AM Tom_L: good if you own a body shop
10:51 AM roycroft: it is sunny here at the moment, but the temperature is just above freezing now, and the high will only be 10 today
10:52 AM Tom_L: about the same here
10:52 AM roycroft: i'm heading off to work in a bit anyway, and will be stuck in a basement much of the day
10:52 AM Tom_L: snow should pretty well be gone today i think
10:53 AM roycroft: we have some severely cold weather forecast for next week - i hope that changes
10:54 AM roycroft: -8 tuesday morning
10:54 AM XXCoder: tuesday wow cold night 20f
10:54 AM roycroft: it's awfully late in the year for that kind of cold, and daffodils are up and fruit trees are starting to bud
10:55 AM roycroft: canada geese are heading north already - a couple huge flocks of them flew by my house just yesterday
10:55 AM Tom_L: they never leave here
10:56 AM Tom_L: they shouldn't be protected anymore
10:56 AM roycroft: they don't stay here
10:56 AM Tom_L: there is an over abundance of them
10:56 AM roycroft: they fly south in the fall and north in the spring
10:57 AM Tom_L: all sorts of ponds here & wheat, corn, milo etc
10:57 AM Tom_L: why the hell would they leave that?
10:57 AM roycroft: a very few stick around in other parts of the year, but eugene is almost entirely a migration path for them
10:58 AM * roycroft should get ready for work, so he's not there all day
10:58 AM Tom_L: i swear sw sends me email every day
10:59 AM Tom_L: prime cost is going up $20
10:59 AM Tom_L: guess they gotta fund their new fleet of trucks
11:00 AM roycroft: i've never paid for amazon prime
11:00 AM roycroft: and i never pay amazon for shipping
11:00 AM Tom_L: she likes the shows etc
11:00 AM roycroft: i'll sometimes pay shipping to amazon marketplace vendors
11:00 AM Tom_L: you get more than just shipping
11:00 AM roycroft: yeah, it's probably worth it if you want those features
11:01 AM roycroft: i've no interest in that
11:01 AM Tom_L: i personally wouldn't do it but...
11:01 AM roycroft: in fact, i'm thinking of cancelling netflix, which is the only streaming service i have
11:01 AM Tom_L: gives me more free time :)
11:01 AM roycroft: i don't have cable or satellite tv
11:01 AM Tom_L: you don't like paying for more commercials?
11:01 AM roycroft: and i probably watch netflix 2-3 hours/month, which makes it hardly worth it
11:02 AM roycroft: i had cable
11:02 AM roycroft: but it became way too toxic in 2016
11:02 AM roycroft: i had to turn it off
11:02 AM roycroft: and i've not looked back
11:20 AM _unreal_: heh... I'm using my RC MULTI charger to charge a lithium ion camera battery so I can get it powered long enough to see if there are any photos in the ONBOARD memory. if there is nothing I can trash the camera. IF there are any I'll pull them off
11:20 AM _unreal_: its one of the last things with photos for my elderly neighbor I need to try and pull data from.
11:20 AM _unreal_: for her
11:21 AM _unreal_: right now I have that camera battery sitting in a mini vice holding wires on the terminals
11:21 AM _unreal_: I was doing it by hand but was too hard and taking too long
11:21 AM _unreal_: I'm upto 3.54v now
11:21 AM _unreal_: was at 2.9
11:22 AM _unreal_: the battery is "toast" having been that low charge wise. but as long as it has enough power to do what I gots to do with that old digi camera I'm happy
11:23 AM _unreal_: charging it at .1a and I feel thats still too fast
11:23 AM _unreal_: but thats the lowest my charger will go
11:24 AM roycroft: why didn't you bypass the battery completely?
11:24 AM roycroft: if you're going to trash the camera anyway, it shouldn't be a big deal to cut it open, if necessary, to connect power to the battery output
11:28 AM _unreal_: I'd rather not risk something that has lots of micro poly traces
11:28 AM _unreal_: the usb cable I have does not have power wires. its the same cable for my digi cam corder as it is for this camera.. but becuase of that it wont charge/power the camera
11:29 AM _unreal_: I'm not about to buy the right cable just to check for the photos
11:30 AM _unreal_: and regardless I have a Hitech x1 multi charger. I can charge the battery.
11:30 AM _unreal_: why would I rip something apart and rig up some custom PSU. when the camera requires multi connections from the battery to turn on. power checking stuff...
11:30 AM _unreal_: to much effort
11:35 AM JanneKro: https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/canonical-devices.html#cha:canonical-device-interfaces
11:35 AM JanneKro: Shouldn't I be able to find the types "digin" and "digout" somewhere?
11:36 AM JanneKro: or fields
11:37 AM JanneKro: All I can find is hal_ppmc calling a field 'digin', rest of the matches are in documentation
11:46 AM _unreal_: ok got the camera to power on long enough to get an idea of the controls. Charging the camera battery again this time till its "full". and just as I DIDNT want to find. the internal memory is loaded with photos
11:46 AM _unreal_: I doubht I would have enough battery time to get a mem card in it and transfer so I'm going to see if I can pull via USB soon as the battery is re-charged
11:49 AM _unreal_: charge rate has slowed down now. a lot. that makes me happy
11:56 AM _unreal_: yep its putting real power into the battery now
12:09 PM unterhaus: they guy I made an offer to on ebay is just going to ignore it, it seems
12:10 PM unterhaus: it wasn't really ideal because it has a 1 1/4" bore. But I'm going to have to make a shaft anyway
12:10 PM _unreal_: I DID IT I got the pictures off of the camera
12:11 PM _unreal_: finally
12:24 PM miss0r2: CaptHindsight[m]: Hey. Are you around?
12:57 PM unterhaus: this is a real rabbit hole, you can have conditionals in your solidworks equations
01:18 PM captain_morgan: has anyone seen an issue where the DRO on the Preview tab disappears? hectic when trying to switch between (per file) operations
01:19 PM captain_morgan: 2.8.2
02:20 PM _unreal_: captain_morgan, I've had endless issues with on screen GUI options just stop working.
02:30 PM _unreal_: captain_morgan, thats the main reason why I use planetcnc.
02:41 PM JanneKro: is RTAI no longer used in the official release?
03:22 PM Tom_L: not that i know of
03:23 PM unterhaus: is there a current rtai kernel?
03:29 PM Tom_L: i think so but it's not packaged with the release
03:30 PM JanneKro: there seems to be a patch for 5.4
03:51 PM _unreal_: and there it is... I now have the pilot marks on my MAIN z body drilled. I need only to make the holes how.
03:52 PM _unreal_: and TAP the holes on the Z carriage back plane plate
03:52 PM _unreal_: I get that done
03:53 PM _unreal_: I then just have to cut some !#@$^%&@#$% notches in the X/Z interface carriage plate.
03:53 PM _unreal_: my spindle mount wont fit through it
03:53 PM _unreal_: sigh
04:00 PM JT-Shop: amazon prime went up and it's now $319 a year... time to drop that
04:02 PM unterhaus: JT, mine went up to $150, you have a different type of account?
04:06 PM unterhaus: sorry, $180
04:10 PM _unreal_: $319 I was about to say B....S......
04:17 PM * Lcvette[m] uploaded an image: (65KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FhgMFYRKlAcXXDnPSntQWDVY/Screenshot_20220219-170013-033.png >
04:17 PM Lcvette[m]: Mine is $139
04:17 PM Lcvette[m]: Renews in July for same
04:18 PM JT-Shop: $139 a year plus $13.99 a month
04:19 PM t4nk_freenode: ... those are quite the bills methinks
04:19 PM JanneKro: So you guys are running user-space real-time with PREEMPT and happy with it?
04:19 PM Lcvette[m]: That's one time billing
04:19 PM Lcvette[m]: Or monthly
04:20 PM JT-Shop: oh
04:20 PM Lcvette[m]: Can choose which
04:20 PM JT-Shop: ok
04:20 PM Lcvette[m]: Scared me
04:20 PM t4nk_freenode: prime gives you what? free shipping and you can watch movies or so?
04:20 PM Lcvette[m]: <<<<Amazon addict
04:21 PM unterhaus: JanneKro I have all ethernet boards so I have to use rtpreempt
04:21 PM unterhaus: it works fine for that
04:22 PM t4nk_freenode: well, shipping is always nice from them
04:23 PM * Lcvette[m] uploaded an image: (171KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/IlQIYKFPqkUpgPlLRkdYzUDg/Screenshot_20220219-170715.png >
04:24 PM Lcvette[m]: At $139/yr it's a great deal
04:24 PM t4nk_freenode: prime reading? so you can read whatever books they sell?
04:24 PM JanneKro: unterhaus understandable. I'd like some feedback from someone whose running a parallel-port or similar
04:24 PM JanneKro: who is*
04:25 PM unterhaus: parport needs rtai, most likely
04:25 PM unterhaus: more for the timing than the i/o
04:25 PM unterhaus: the code itself still works with rtai
04:25 PM JanneKro: unterhaus: Yes, timing is the what I'm wondering about. The driver itself is implemented for both
04:26 PM unterhaus: the lcnc code
04:26 PM unterhaus: some systems have very good latency with rtpreempt
04:27 PM unterhaus: it's all about latency
04:27 PM JanneKro: unterhaus But considering that the latest release doesn't have RTAI and I'm going off the parport-implementation to start with / to learn, I might as well implement it in userspace only and see if I can make it work for starters, and look at the performance afterwards
04:28 PM unterhaus: "the latest release doesn't have rtai" is actually a thing that doesn't make sense
04:28 PM unterhaus: there may not be an iso
04:28 PM unterhaus: does comedi use rtpreempt?
04:28 PM JanneKro: unterhaus That's the sense-part of it. I wanted to download a full release and try it out. Out of the box..
04:29 PM JanneKro: unterhaus: That may be a problem. I don't really undrestand what rtpreempt is (been away from this stuff for a decade). If it's a general patch, or if something is required when implementing it
04:30 PM JanneKro: As I remember it, comedilib has both ..well, "comedilib", and "kcomedilib" for kernel-level implementation, and some interface prefixed with rt_.. but I think the latter comes from RTAI, not the comedi-project, to enable Real-time functionality within userspace
04:31 PM unterhaus: there is code in lcnc to link against rtpreempt or rtai at build time. For lcnc developers, there is no difference
04:32 PM JanneKro: I know, but linking against rtai means that I need to have such a kernel. Hence why I expected the ISO to be based on a proper distribution with a patchable kernel
04:32 PM unterhaus: nobody felt like building that iso
04:33 PM JanneKro: unterhaus, sure, and that's a good reason for me to not start there. :)
04:33 PM unterhaus: there were problems with rtai that caused issues and I'm not sure that was ever resolved
04:33 PM JanneKro: unterhaus See you comment above for the reason. :D
04:34 PM unterhaus: Paolo said, "works on my system" and shrugged. But there was a dev working on it
04:35 PM JanneKro: I might go back to an earlier iso with RTAI when I want to play with the hard real-time parts, then. I think that would at least make the mountain less steep
04:35 PM JanneKro: (regarding implementing the driver itself)
04:36 PM unterhaus: it all depends on the comedi devs. I would think they would want to embrace rtpreempt and make things simpler for themselves
04:36 PM JanneKro: unterhaus sure, as long as rtpreempt is good enough
04:36 PM unterhaus: now that it's in the mainline kernel
04:36 PM JanneKro: I have zero knowledge on how they compare
04:38 PM unterhaus: RTAI can have lower latency on a wider range of systems. Some systems just aren't suitable for rt with either
04:39 PM JanneKro: unterhaus I know. RTAI can't fix nondeterministic hardware
04:39 PM unterhaus: I don't know about non-deterministic, most of them regularly have long pauses. Like clockwork
04:40 PM JanneKro: unterhaus Non-deterministic as in unpredictable jitter from an RT-point-of-view
04:41 PM JanneKro: The more advanced caching and "smart optimizations", the worse the system is for real-time. It's not about speed, but predictability
04:42 PM JanneKro: added with "power-saving"-functionality and what have yous.. It gets worse every year
04:42 PM unterhaus: really, those issues aren't a problem at mechanical hardware speeds. It's the 400ms pauses
04:44 PM JanneKro: I would've said < 1ms, but that's the thing. If RTAI can't fix the 400ms pause, there is some interrupt / hardware that is in the way
04:45 PM unterhaus: yes, smi. sometimes you can do something about it, but it's a bios problem, rtai can't really touch it in a system independent way
04:46 PM JanneKro: Medical equipment shooting lasers can't lag like that.
04:48 PM JanneKro: Or my lathe. :)
04:48 PM unterhaus: I have a xeon that gets very good latency on rtpreempt. It all depends on how the bios is written and medical lasers can't just be run on any old system
04:49 PM JanneKro: Well, they _can_ be run on any old system, because things used to work better for real-time, before other smartness got in the way. Simpler is better in some applications
04:49 PM unterhaus: well, hopefully they aren't run on commodity pc's with no external timing help
04:49 PM unterhaus: this has been a problem literally for 25 years
04:50 PM JanneKro: I know Philips ran such stuff on PCs.. "industrial PCs". DAQs, VXWorks and off you go.
04:50 PM JanneKro: That's the whole point with RT
04:50 PM unterhaus: did they share their timing requirements with you?
04:51 PM JanneKro: yes, I did a thesis for them
04:52 PM unterhaus: I'm positive they qualified the systems they used, it's not difficult
04:56 PM JanneKro: unterhaus Of course, but they were in fact explicitly "old PCs" for that reason. The issue was the same in my previous job with Fighter Jets. It's not easy to get hold of hardware for RT. In the end they _are_ COTS
04:56 PM unterhaus: the parport stepper driver was an afterthought with lcnc and it was very clever. But at some point there is too much effort going into keeping it running
04:57 PM Toneloc: JanneKro - Linux SBC ?
04:57 PM unterhaus: That's interesting about old systems, you don't have to do that to get the same performance as those old systems had
04:57 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, they went up twenty bux
04:57 PM Tom_L: was 119
04:57 PM Tom_L: now 139
04:57 PM JanneKro: Toneloc?
04:58 PM Toneloc: such as Raspberry pi
04:58 PM unterhaus: rpi uses rtpreempt
04:58 PM Toneloc: if it's running a real-time OS
04:58 PM Toneloc: I guess they are soft-rt?
04:59 PM JanneKro: Toneloc No idea. I'd doubt rpi is a good platform to achieve low jitter
04:59 PM unterhaus: anyone that says their commodity computer runs hard rt just has looser requirements for latency
04:59 PM JanneKro: unterhaus: Jitter. It's about the jitter
05:00 PM Toneloc: unterhaus- that would be it
05:00 PM unterhaus: jitter is the twin of latency, nobody ever talks about it
05:00 PM Toneloc: JanneKro - needs to be consistent
05:00 PM XXCoder: rpi4 isnt bad really, from what I understand. runs well enough since you'd be using MESA anyway
05:01 PM unterhaus: even with a bad smi handler, a commodity pc will give you very good latency/jitter with a rtprempt kernel running a thread at a slow enough rate
05:02 PM JanneKro: XXCoder: The exercise here is for me to try implement a DAQ-driver
05:02 PM JanneKro: (pci, comedi.. )
05:02 PM unterhaus: there is no point talking about it, install an rtpreempt iso and see if it works on the computer you want to use
05:03 PM unterhaus: "works" meaning has reasonable rt response
05:03 PM Tom_L: if not get another one :)
05:03 PM JanneKro: unterhaus I think that's something we have agreed on long ago. I hope
05:03 PM unterhaus: there are so many threads about this on the forum
05:04 PM unterhaus: you can even do it booting off of a usb drive
05:04 PM Tom_L: fiddle with the bios settings to get the best result
05:04 PM unterhaus: measure first, fiddle later
05:04 PM unterhaus: theorize never
05:06 PM JanneKro: The pre-empt iso is already installed. Now I want to implement something just to learn/try
05:06 PM unterhaus: there's a not too old rtai iso, isn't there?
05:06 PM unterhaus: pretty sure I have installed one in the last year, but time flies
05:06 PM JanneKro: But as I know nothing about anything, I want to know what the word on the street is
05:06 PM unterhaus: word is, it depends
05:07 PM unterhaus: you have to test
05:07 PM JanneKro: unterhaus: Yes, I said that above. I will try with an older version if I'm curious about comparing with RTAI.. depending on the results
05:07 PM unterhaus: I think lcnc will continue to support rtai into the future because it's pretty easy
05:07 PM unterhaus: what was the latency test results on your rtpreempt system?
05:08 PM JanneKro: But now I need to sleep. Finland is supposed to beat Russia in 5 hours. Can't miss that.
05:08 PM unterhaus: good luck with both
05:09 PM Toneloc: JanneKro - Russia is supposed to beat Ukraine any day now....
05:09 PM Toneloc: *supposedly
05:13 PM Tom_L: the last rtai iso is wheezy i think
05:32 PM jfsimon1981: Good night,
05:32 PM jfsimon1981: Is hal_input a configurable command line utility to interface with HID devices ?
05:33 PM jfsimon1981: I'd like to interface a joystock to provide controls like jog axis.
05:41 PM unterhaus: hal input is a hal component
05:42 PM unterhaus: but you can use it to do what you are asking, just through the hal file
05:46 PM jfsimon1981: right thanks, so the right place is the .hal file
06:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JanneKro: many factory BIOSes are broken, they may have settings to kill power management, virtualization, speed stepping etc but the setting don't always act as they are set
06:19 PM JT-Cave: jfsimon1981, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
06:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the latest RTAI for LCNC as a package http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#cha:Installing-RTAI
06:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: most vendors don't do a very thorough job of testing firmware, and even if they did they would be relying on the firmware vendor to properly fix it since they don't usually work with source, they work with a BIOS/EFI SDK with a bunch of binaries that get slapped together
06:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's been a mess since the 80's and they refuse to use open source since it would be giving up too much control of the hardware
06:24 PM unterhaus: I want to make a breakout board that plugs directly into a mesa 7i73. So the headers will be on the bottom of the board. Are there mirrored parts in kicad?
06:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: AMD just hired some devs to work on opening up some firmware again
06:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Intel actually mentioned it again at a a conference last week
06:25 PM unterhaus: would be nice, they are living with broken bios problems every day
06:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and Microsoft actually recently mentioned coreboot
06:26 PM unterhaus: the kicad forums have plenty of helpful people with helpful comments such as "Sidenote: compare the footprint for a dual row pin header with its counterpart in the official library. You might just notice something here."
06:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: it is the classic " I know something that you don't"
06:28 PM unterhaus: another post reveals that female headers are mirrored
06:29 PM unterhaus: so if you want to put a female header on the top of your board you have to mirror it
06:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you don't say
06:29 PM unterhaus: not sure if that really affects anyone
06:30 PM unterhaus: it's not immediately obvious to me, but since I don't have to do any work, I'll take it
06:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Intel did that at times with the pinouts for some chipsets
06:31 PM unterhaus: so they could be on the bottom of boards?
06:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: suddenly change the usual way they published the pinout,and posted drawings as seen from the opposite side of the PCB
06:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: not a problem unless your are absolutely clear as how the BGA pads should be used
06:32 PM unterhaus: I'm sure that didn't cause any problems at all
06:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: a noobie issue with PCB headers is that somebody numbers them when they create the part for the library
06:33 PM unterhaus: I'm somewhat reluctant to make any design decisions
06:34 PM unterhaus: you want numbers for the schematic, don't you?
06:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: then the noob uses the symbol in the schematic and then again in the PCB layout and assumes that they way they are numbered is the same as well as the cable assembly they mate with
06:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have seen so many mirrored or backward header cable issues
06:36 PM unterhaus: the guy that designed the stepper board for the bbb made that mistake
06:36 PM unterhaus: had to make some adapters to flip the pins
06:36 PM unterhaus: I'm surprised there isn't a product
06:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it very common
06:38 PM unterhaus: well, now I just have to decide what connectors to put on my breakout boards
06:39 PM unterhaus: mostly screw terminals, I guess
06:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: disclaimer* just curious and not offering suggestions.... and didn't read the backlog...
06:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: what sort of breakout boards are these?
06:40 PM unterhaus: for the mesa 7i73 pendant board
06:41 PM unterhaus: has 2 pin headers
06:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=116
06:42 PM unterhaus: yes
06:42 PM unterhaus: most people just use individual wires which is ugly
06:43 PM unterhaus: someone on the forum designed a breakout with a odroid on it, which is not what I want
06:45 PM unterhaus: sorry, it's an odroid plus 7i73 breakout https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/41358-add-a-second-7i73-solved?start=20
06:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I hear that lots of people use JLPCB for projects like this
06:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://jlcpcb.com/
06:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I have never used them
06:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they even offer assembly, and stock many connector types https://jlcpcb.com/parts/componentSearch?isFirstLevel=true&firstName=Connectors
07:18 PM jfsimon1981: Thankx JT
07:18 PM jfsimon1981: Working on it
07:25 PM roycroft: yeah, so i spent my second saturday in a row trying to get the country fair office network redone with the static ips comcast allocated to us
07:25 PM unterhaus: jlcpcp's connector selection is a bit daunting
07:25 PM roycroft: today was 6-1/2 hours
07:25 PM roycroft: two comcast truck rolls
07:25 PM roycroft: and two new cablemodems
07:25 PM roycroft: the whole time, last weekend and this weekend, i kept telling them the cablemodem was fine, but that my traffic was being blocked with in comcast's network
07:26 PM roycroft: the whole time they kept telling me that either i don't know how to provision my equipment or that the cablemodem is bad
07:26 PM roycroft: finally they figured out that the ips they allocated me had a 'security block' on them and were being blocked within their network
07:27 PM roycroft: which sounded familiar, because that's what i've been telling them all along
07:27 PM roycroft: once we got a new block of ips assigned, it workd perfectly
07:27 PM roycroft: except now i'm another day behind on the project, and the deadline for completion is looming
07:34 PM CloudEvil: :) :(
07:39 PM roycroft: it's comcastic
07:39 PM roycroft: and none of this surprised me, but it still irritated me
07:40 PM roycroft: only because i told them early last saturday morning that the problem was within their networ,not with the cablemodem or my equipment
07:47 PM jfsimon1981: I'm not using the GUI but linuxcncrsh, yet with a joystock plugged in.
07:47 PM jfsimon1981: Which would be the proper hal command for the jog ?
07:49 PM jfsimon1981: Except my mistake those ones don't do "net jog-x-pre <= input.0.abs-x-position" net jog-x-analog <= input.0.abs-x-position"and "
08:38 PM jfsimon1981: Does halui not exist when running linuxcncrsh ?
08:40 PM _unreal_: ok prob one of the most problimatic parts of this build done. 5 hole in 1" steel
08:40 PM _unreal_: 5 holes
08:50 PM jfsimon1981: Got it, it was missing HALUI = halui in the ini file.
09:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: I think that a 3 Stooges eye poke should be allowed in these circumstances
09:39 PM roycroft: possibly
09:39 PM roycroft: but now the rest of the project is under my control, so i'll likely just move on and be glad that part is over
09:39 PM _unreal_: Sad part is I have to get the Z mounted before I can design the mount for the z pneumatics
09:39 PM roycroft: and know that once comcastic, always comcastic
09:40 PM _unreal_: I think my leg stopped bleeding finally?? scratched a scab I didnt know I had.
09:40 PM _unreal_: bled like a MOFO
09:41 PM roycroft: florida man bleeds for no good reason
09:41 PM roycroft: :)
10:03 PM _unreal_: no kidding
10:04 PM _unreal_: ok 6 holes tapped
10:04 PM _unreal_: tomorrow I need to get 6 8mm bolts
10:12 PM Tom_L: you could have made something up like a crock bite
10:13 PM Bleepshop: Or at least a hooker bite. ;D