#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 15 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:03 AM roycroft: sometimes i dislike learning about new tools
12:10 AM roycroft: today i found out about composite nail guns
12:10 AM roycroft: and they are expensive
12:10 AM roycroft: but now i think i need one
01:25 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
01:59 AM randy: morning
03:07 AM Deejay: moin
05:09 AM Tom_L: morning
05:38 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:47 AM Lcvette[m]: Mornin
08:02 AM JT-Cave: hey
08:42 AM unterhaus: so what is available from mesa for stepper system?
08:51 AM unterhaus: I guess a 7i92 and some parport bobs
08:51 AM enleth: unterhaus: 7i76e is nice if you want a single integrated board
08:52 AM enleth: I got a Denford ORAC running on one
08:52 AM unterhaus: yeah, lots of good solutions in theory, operative word is "available"
08:52 AM unterhaus: I like the 7i96
08:52 AM unterhaus: not available
08:53 AM enleth: 7I76e seems to be in stock
08:53 AM unterhaus: one lucky winner each for the 7i92 and 7i80
08:56 AM unterhaus: 7i76 no 'e' has better availability
08:58 AM enleth: that'll work too
08:58 AM enleth: I got the "e" version for convenience
08:59 AM unterhaus: oops, I see it's a daughter card
08:59 AM unterhaus: i got the 7i96 because I'm cheap
09:00 AM enleth: that's one less axis and a bit less I/O than 7i76/7i76e, right?
09:02 AM unterhaus: I think so
09:03 AM enleth: in any case, I'm happy with the results I got with 7i76e and in fact, I'm considering switching the mill from 6i25/7i77 to 7i97 (wasn't available back when I did the retrofit)
09:03 AM enleth: I'd expect 7i96 to be just as good if the machine fits in the I/O budget
09:04 AM unterhaus: I got one as an experiement and then I mistakenly ordered 3
09:04 AM unterhaus: three experiments
09:04 AM unterhaus: but I'm looking now for a client
09:04 AM enleth: at this point, I'm not even sure why would anyone not go with the ethernet versions of the boards
09:08 AM unterhaus: I agree, so much easier
09:09 AM unterhaus: I have some daughter cards with 50 pin on both input and output and there is just a tangle of 50 pin ribbon cables. Not fun
09:53 AM perry_j1987: morning
09:55 AM roycroft: i bought a 5125 + 7i76 for my mill
09:56 AM roycroft: that was several years ago (and i still haven't done the mill conversion)
09:56 AM roycroft: i don't remember why i chose that insted of an ethernet based card, but i would probably choose the latter today
09:57 AM roycroft: which i did for my router, but that is because i'm going to use an rpi4 to run linuxcnc on the router
09:59 AM perry_j1987: 7i96 then?
09:59 AM perry_j1987: i hear they are impossible to get right now?
10:00 AM roycroft: yes
10:00 AM roycroft: and i believe yes
10:00 AM roycroft: when i got mine jt was out of stock
10:00 AM roycroft: he let me know a few days later that he found one, and sent it to me
10:01 AM roycroft: that was some months ago, and i don't think he's received many, if any, since
10:01 AM roycroft: iic pcw is waiting on chips from china
10:01 AM roycroft: like just about every other manufacturer in north america
10:05 AM perry_j1987: time to stop using IC and build out the functionality with discrete components haha
10:06 AM perry_j1987: *show's people his lathe controller that takes up a spare hall closet sized room
10:06 AM perry_j1987: lol
10:08 AM perry_j1987: so last night i had belt break and destroy the drive pulley in the process
10:08 AM perry_j1987: on the mini lathe
10:08 AM JT-Shop: https://www.design-reuse.com/news/22774/xilinx-spartan-6-fpga-samsung-45nm-lp-process.html
10:09 AM perry_j1987: got a new belt en route with a better tooth profile and im 3d printing some temporary pulleys
10:09 AM JT-Shop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xilinx
10:11 AM roycroft: it's time for the us to start manufacturing things that are critical to our economy and national security in this country and stop depending on foreign sources
10:11 AM perry_j1987: its kind of odd that every country doesnt at least have a little of everything producing within its borders
10:12 AM perry_j1987: makes sense if you want to have borders at all i mean
10:12 AM roycroft: a lot of things don't scale down well
10:12 AM roycroft: but we're one of the largest countries (both by area and population) in the world
10:12 AM roycroft: we don't need to scale down here
10:13 AM roycroft: i wouldn't expect liechtenstein to manufacture everything it needs
10:13 AM roycroft: but liechtenstein gets along well with its neighbors
10:27 AM perry_j1987: true heh
10:27 AM perry_j1987: there could be a small fab shop in one of the castle rooms though haha
10:56 AM roycroft: when i mentioned that i'm considering adding some short extension shafts to my stepper motors to accomodate the timing gears better, multiple people here indicated that they would recommend not doing so, but nobody provided any reasons not to
10:57 AM roycroft: and i've pondered that a fair amount, and i don't see why it would be a bad idea, if the shafts are made well
10:57 AM roycroft: it's either that or use different motors, which i don't think i should need to do
10:58 AM roycroft: but if anyone does have a good reason not to extend the shafts, i'd love to hear it
10:59 AM perry_j1987: extensions?
11:00 AM roycroft: i need the motor shafts to be longer
11:00 AM perry_j1987: if you need longer shafts use hollow shaft stepeprs
11:00 AM perry_j1987: then put whatever length shafts in em
11:03 AM roycroft: a quick web search turns up no hollow shaft stepper motors that have the same torque as my current ones
11:03 AM roycroft: and the closest i've found are over $100 each
11:03 AM roycroft: and your suggestion is not a reason to not use an extension
11:04 AM roycroft: it's a suggested alternative to making an extension
11:04 AM roycroft: i appreciate all suggestions
11:04 AM roycroft: but i really am looking for a good reason to not do what i am considering
11:04 AM perry_j1987: why do they need to be extended though
11:05 AM roycroft: i'm not going to direct couple the motors to the ball screws
11:05 AM perry_j1987: are you needing to wrap the motors around or something?
11:05 AM roycroft: i'm going to use a pair of timing gears and a belt to connect them, and the shafts are not long enough on the motors to securely mount the timing gears
11:06 AM roycroft: in my current design, at least
11:06 AM perry_j1987: i've done a few wrapped motor belt setups over the years
11:07 AM perry_j1987: where the motor is on same side as the ballscrew/leadscrew
11:07 AM perry_j1987: and the pulleys are on the ends of each connected with a belt
11:08 AM roycroft: that's what i'm considering
11:08 AM roycroft: i can't afford the floor space for the motors to be inline with the ball screws
11:09 AM perry_j1987: there should be enough room to press the timing belt as far onto the stepper as needed
11:09 AM roycroft: on the y axis especially
11:09 AM perry_j1987: timing belt pulley
11:09 AM roycroft: my shafts are 24mm long
11:09 AM perry_j1987: ya
11:10 AM perry_j1987: your pulleys are flat pulleys or have an arbor?
11:10 AM roycroft: if i am mounting the motors on a piece of 3/8" aluminium plate, that leaves me 15mm
11:10 AM roycroft: they have a hub
11:10 AM perry_j1987: the hub sinks into the hole in your plate
11:10 AM roycroft: it could, yes
11:11 AM perry_j1987: pressed hubs or setscrew?
11:11 AM roycroft: but that still does not leave enough shaft to go through the full bore of the gear
11:11 AM roycroft: setscrew
11:11 AM perry_j1987: when your milling the plates you could mill a slot for setscrew access
11:11 AM roycroft: i'll look at other timing gear endors
11:11 AM roycroft: vendors
11:11 AM perry_j1987: it does not have to go through the full bore
11:11 AM roycroft: but i haven't found any that will work out yet
11:12 AM roycroft: i have a lot of other design work to do
11:12 AM perry_j1987: your not going to find a belt that can put that much tension to cant the pulley off the stepper shaft
11:12 AM roycroft: i kind of put this motor mounting bit on the back burner while i ponder options
11:12 AM roycroft: i should not need that much tension
11:13 AM perry_j1987: aye just enough to keep teeth from slipping and your good
11:13 AM perry_j1987: you wont need full bore penetration of the stepper shaft
11:13 AM roycroft: i've been spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to build a vacuum hold down system for this machine
11:13 AM roycroft: but when i discovered composite nailers yesterday, a vacuum hold down became moot
11:14 AM roycroft: i'll just throw more money at the project
11:14 AM roycroft: and simplify the design
11:14 AM roycroft: it may actually be close to a wash on cost, as the vacuum hold down systems i was working on would end up being rather expensive, and veyr complicated to build
11:15 AM perry_j1987: doing a zone system?
11:15 AM roycroft: yes
11:15 AM roycroft: and to make matters worse, this machine will be an over/under design - i.e. it will be both a conventional router table and a cnc router
11:16 AM roycroft: and i'm going to install a 20mm hole grit a la festool on the table top for when it's in conventional router table mode
11:16 AM roycroft: and for use as an assembly table
11:16 AM roycroft: so i'd have to build the vacuum system to work around that hole grid
11:17 AM roycroft: i've come up with a couple designs that i thought were somewhat clever, and should work well, but both would require a fairly complex maze of channels underneath the table top
11:17 AM roycroft: it would be best if i could avoid all of that
11:19 AM roycroft: so i'm about to ditch the idea of a vacuum hold down system
11:19 AM roycroft: i also had the thought of making a component where i could mount boards vertically and cnc machine the ends
11:19 AM roycroft: with a vacuum hold down system i could not do that
11:22 AM perry_j1987: well if your spindle can go off the end of the table
11:22 AM roycroft: that's not hard to do
11:23 AM roycroft: it should not need to go much lower than the table top
11:23 AM roycroft: the board does not need to be mounted flush with the table top
11:24 AM roycroft: in fact, it's likely i'd want to sandwich the workpiece between some backing boards, which may be mounted on the table top itself
11:24 AM roycroft: i haven't worked out a design yet, but conceptually it should work fine
11:25 AM * roycroft forgot that he was not going to discuss his cnc router here any more, as it seemed to annoy several folks
11:25 AM roycroft: sorry
11:26 AM XXCoder: maybe try summarize it more if you think its too annoying
11:26 AM XXCoder: cnc router is essentally on topic, expecially if it will use lcnc
11:27 AM roycroft: it will, but i'm still far from the control part of the design
11:27 AM roycroft: although i'm well into the build part of the controller already :)
11:27 AM JT-Cave: we can talk about almost anything here
11:27 AM roycroft: i've taken it about as far as i can without actually connecting the motors and testing
11:28 AM JT-Cave: sometimes I "think" I need to build a CNC router that is completely enclosed
11:28 AM roycroft: i've been spending more time on the design of the rest of the system lately, because it's winter, and even though winters are mild here, it is sitll a lot more comfy sitting in front of a computer in my office than working in a cold, drafty shop
11:28 AM t4nk_freenode: ok, no more procrastinating; I'm putting the hacksaw into my cnc... euhhh I mean wrench onto my machine.
11:29 AM roycroft: i don't think about a fully enclosed cnc router, because that would require too much real estate that i don't have
11:29 AM roycroft: instead, i'm thinking about how to build the most efficient extraction system possible
11:30 AM roycroft: if i had a bigger shop, enclosing the cnc router would probably make sense
11:32 AM perry_j1987: i setup a shower curtain around the 6040
11:32 AM perry_j1987: made an EMT conduit bent curtain rod lol
11:33 AM perry_j1987: now i just have a pile of chips in a ring on the floor around it instead of flung everywhere in the shop
11:33 AM perry_j1987: so much nicer and a nice 10 dollar upgrade
11:33 AM XXCoder: roycroft: can always make barrier stand up
11:33 AM XXCoder: one tht you can easily put away
11:35 AM roycroft: if i can get 90+% extraction that won't be necessary
11:36 AM t4nk_freenode: lol, I thought you made a shower curtain out of 6040 extrusion ;)
11:47 AM roycroft: xxcoder: that requires storage space as well
11:47 AM roycroft: which i'd rather not have to deal with
11:47 AM roycroft: but if i need to do that, it's an option
11:48 AM roycroft: step 1 is building the machine. step 2 is to add the extraction shoe to the spindle and see how efficient i can make it. step 3 may not be necessary, but i'll cross that bridge if i get to it.
11:50 AM XXCoder: roy oh its very little more than strip of say 2 or 3 inch plastic
11:51 AM XXCoder: so it fits under gantry, and can be made to stand up somewhere out of way but stops flung chip from traveling futher
11:51 AM XXCoder: though have to be careful not to cross it with tool lol
11:51 AM roycroft: well my goal is to not have any chips/dust escape the grasp of the extraction shoe
11:53 AM roycroft: but that part of the project isn't even on my radar at the moment
11:54 AM roycroft: i've added some t track to the z axis to accomodate whatever extraction shoe i add, and that's as far as i've gotten for now
11:54 AM XXCoder: yeah. its impossible to have 100% extraction (unless you go super super overkill and even then...)
11:54 AM XXCoder: but ifgood enough, then all you need to do is barely do a cleanup
11:54 AM roycroft: it's a wood shop
11:54 AM roycroft: chips happen
11:55 AM XXCoder: lol
11:55 AM roycroft: i have not fitted an extractor to my hand planes or chisels
11:56 AM XXCoder: :)
01:20 PM perry_j1987: well i got life out of the VFD
01:20 PM perry_j1987: it responds to speed control from mesa board and such
01:20 PM perry_j1987: but spindle is not spinning yet
01:22 PM XXCoder: nice
01:22 PM XXCoder: some progress
01:26 PM perry_j1987: ya
01:26 PM perry_j1987: wonder what i can do next to figure this out
01:26 PM perry_j1987: i got it wired right i think
01:29 PM perry_j1987: the DC bus shows about 300v
01:29 PM perry_j1987: it seems all normal
01:29 PM perry_j1987: just not getting voltage out of the 3 phase end
01:36 PM unterhaus: roycroft, not to start a discussion of your router, but motor shaft extensions exist for purchase, so maybe there is no good reason not to use them
01:52 PM roycroft: thanks, unterhaus
01:52 PM roycroft: this kind of reminds me of a conversation we had a few years ago
01:53 PM roycroft: i had just purchased a rotary table, and needed a chuck for it
01:53 PM roycroft: i had a brand new 5" 4 jaw chuck that i had purchased for my mini lathe, which i had decided to sell
01:53 PM roycroft: the problem was that my 4 jaw chuck was 5" in diameter, and my rotary table was 6"
01:54 PM roycroft: i was having trouble figuring out a way to mount the chuck to the table
01:55 PM roycroft: then i had the brilliant idea that i could drill four counterbored mounting holes through the face of the chuck, and attach it with t-nuts that were underneath the chuck body
01:55 PM roycroft: i asked if there was any reason not to do that, and the entire channel immediately shouted NO NO NO NO NO! DON'T DO THAT!
01:55 PM roycroft: when they calmed down, i asked why not
01:56 PM roycroft: and after a bit folks admitted that they could not think of a valid reason not to, but that it just seems wrong to drill holes through the face of a chuck
01:56 PM XXCoder: isnt there spirl plate inside chuck
01:56 PM roycroft: no
01:56 PM roycroft: it's a 4 jaw
01:57 PM roycroft: i drilled in between the jaws
01:57 PM XXCoder: ahh yeah thats not same type internals
01:57 PM roycroft: it would not work with a scroll chuck
01:57 PM roycroft: the whole reason i asked the channel is because i, too, could not think of a valid reason not to do it, but it seemed wrong to me
01:58 PM roycroft: in the end, i did drill those holes, and it's workd out brilliantly
01:58 PM unterhaus: I think there are mounting holes on the face of my chuck, it's pretty common anyway
01:58 PM roycroft: yes, some independent jaw chucks come that way
01:58 PM unterhaus: But I agree, I hate the idea :)
01:59 PM roycroft: but as well
01:59 PM roycroft: it's a $100 imported chuck
01:59 PM roycroft: it's not a $3000 precision chuck
01:59 PM roycroft: even if it were, there would still be nothing "wrong" about drilling through the face
01:59 PM unterhaus: that's like when the machinist disapproved of me drilling holes in an angle plate
01:59 PM roycroft: but it would probably seem even more wrong doing so
02:00 PM unterhaus: The angle plate cost me less than making a probably non-square angle plate would have cost me
02:00 PM XXCoder: dont you have sine plate?
02:01 PM unterhaus: I wouldn't drill holes in a sine plate :)
02:01 PM XXCoder: oh was thinking for setting angle then tighten vise then remove sine plate
02:01 PM XXCoder: I made too many assumations lol nm
02:02 PM unterhaus: I was making a fixture using an angle plate, which is what they call right angle plates for some reason
02:03 PM XXCoder: googled it, yeah its as I remembered, theres models with slots and such
02:03 PM unterhaus: I bought a large number of small angle plates for the purpose of using them as fixturing.
02:03 PM unterhaus: they were quite cheap and fairly accurate
02:03 PM unterhaus: from the late, lamented enco
02:04 PM XXCoder: nice
02:05 PM unterhaus: the guy that was criticizing me cut one of the jaws off of a 2' starrett caliper because he needed that for a job, so I don't know why he thought drilling a hole in a $10 angle plate was a big crime
02:06 PM unterhaus: then he threw the caliper a way, so I snagged it because it still works for outside measurements
02:06 PM XXCoder: uhh
02:06 PM XXCoder: 2 feet? damn that is expensive!
02:07 PM XXCoder: 400 to 500 usd I think right
02:07 PM unterhaus: yeah, I guess he never used it before and his boss needed something done
02:07 PM unterhaus: yeah, even the chinese ones aren't cheap
02:07 PM XXCoder: largest I ever used was over a meter
02:07 PM unterhaus: someone recommended I get one for measuring something, but it was always too much money
02:07 PM XXCoder: it cost more than many used cars lol
02:08 PM XXCoder: I very carefully pick it up and put it down
02:08 PM XXCoder: 10k usd something lol
02:08 PM unterhaus: this one was in great shape too, dunno what I did with the box.
02:11 PM roycroft: even vernier calipers that size are expensive
02:12 PM XXCoder: yep, because it takes a lot of precision to ensure error across that length is low
02:20 PM roycroft: it's likely that with mondern manufacturing processes it's less expensive to manufacture a long digital caliper than an identical length vernier caliper
02:20 PM roycroft: to the same precision, that is
02:20 PM XXCoder: one I used was dial one
02:20 PM roycroft: that would still be expensive
02:21 PM XXCoder: indeed.
02:21 PM XXCoder: on mics I always prefer non-digital one
02:21 PM roycroft: but for a digital one they're just making long roles of inductive tape and cutting them to length and attaching them to a bar
02:21 PM XXCoder: I only used my digital mic on corrosive or damaging envorment like fiberglass parts
02:22 PM roycroft: i don't have any digital mics
02:22 PM roycroft: i do have digital calipers
02:22 PM roycroft: and analog dial calipers
02:22 PM XXCoder: I really needed one due to fiberglass jobs which was twice a month or more
02:22 PM XXCoder: fiberglass powder is very bad stuff
02:23 PM roycroft: it is
02:23 PM roycroft: anything having to do with fiberglass can be really bad
02:23 PM roycroft: i've suffered countless nicks and scratches and scrapes in my life
02:23 PM roycroft: they've pretty much all healed over and not left permanent scars
02:24 PM roycroft: but one time when i was working in a boat factory, i got a tiny scrape on my hand, right in the middle of the hull finishing department where there was fiberglass dust everywhere
02:25 PM roycroft: it was an extremely shallow scrape, caused by a clean tool
02:25 PM roycroft: but i have a big scar on my hand from that that's been there for over 30 years now
02:25 PM roycroft: and i'm sure it's because of the fiberglass dust that settled on it immediately
02:25 PM XXCoder: ow
02:26 PM roycroft: it doesn't ever hurt at all, or even feel uncomfortable, although i remember it hurt like crazy when it happened
02:26 PM roycroft: but it's a scar that i see every time i look at my hand
02:27 PM roycroft: the really crazy thing, though, is that some of the folks who worked there did not wear respirators in that shop, even some of the ones who were sanding the hulls
02:27 PM CloudEvil: Oddly, the ones you don't see at reunions.
02:27 PM roycroft: they would get written up occasionaly
02:27 PM roycroft: the company would get fined for it occasionally
02:27 PM XXCoder: geez
02:28 PM XXCoder: I have direct experence with fucked up lungs.
02:28 PM roycroft: cloudevil: and generally the ones you can't hold a coherent conversation with at work
02:28 PM XXCoder: dont fuck your lungs
02:28 PM roycroft: my lungs are damaged, but from a bout of pneumonia
02:29 PM roycroft: i've always been reasonably careful about what i breathe, but since the pneumonia and lung scarring from that, i'm extra careful
02:29 PM roycroft: which is why i bought that fresh air respirator a year or so ago
02:29 PM XXCoder: same. 7th one nearly killed me
02:30 PM roycroft: so anyway, getting back to what i'm not discussing :)
02:31 PM roycroft: based on what i've heard and not heard so far today, i'm inclined to continue planning on using my existing motors for the x and y axes, and either making extension shafts for them or seeing if i can find timing gears that mount on the existing shafts that i'd feel comfortable using
02:32 PM roycroft: i don't see how a hollow shaft that takes a threaded rod is any more secure/accurate/whatever than a carefully machined extension whose socket is a close fit if not press fit to the shaft
02:33 PM roycroft: the motor shafts are d shafts
02:33 PM roycroft: and i could even machine a second flat on them if i feel i need that to hold them in place extremely securely, but i don't think that's really necessary
02:34 PM roycroft: and it would be rather fiddly to do anyway
02:34 PM roycroft: if i felt a need to really lock it in place i'd probably bore the gear hub and the shaft for a taper pin or roll pin
03:02 PM perry_j1987: ok toying with this VFD some more
03:03 PM perry_j1987: if i have drive disabled (the switch) and i read voltage between any of the output phases and gnd then i read ac voltage
03:03 PM perry_j1987: that shouldnt be... lol
03:08 PM djdelorie: Hi folks! Is the 7i76e still the go-to choice for running a cnc router?
03:22 PM roycroft: djdelorie: currently it is not, but it probably will be again when it is available again
03:23 PM roycroft: although the 7i96 will also be a good choice for some when it is again available
03:23 PM roycroft: depending on what you need
03:24 PM roycroft: the latter being what i was fortunate to be able to get for my rip4-based router
03:24 PM roycroft: rpi4, rather
03:31 PM djdelorie: roycroft: so if I see one available, buy it? ;-)
03:32 PM djdelorie: I looked at the 7i96 but I don't mind having more expandability, having lived with limited parallel port pins all this time
03:34 PM unterhaus: when we went over this subject this morning there was one a 7i76e available from mesa
03:34 PM unterhaus: last one though
03:35 PM djdelorie: and I'm hovering over the "add to cart" button, but wanted to see if there was a better choice...
03:39 PM JT-Shop: right now the choices are very limited
03:40 PM XXCoder: i want to evenually get mesa that uses ethernet
03:40 PM XXCoder: for my rpi4
03:43 PM djdelorie: and now there are none again :-)
03:44 PM djdelorie: (and for those of you who remember me, yes, I'm finally replacing the cheesy wooden router with a "real" one)
03:46 PM XXCoder: congats
03:47 PM djdelorie: amusingly, it's been working just fine, with a few "minor" things - but mostly, the small size is annoying
03:47 PM roycroft: even if you don't need one, if you see one for sale, buy it
03:47 PM roycroft: you'll be able to sell it easily
03:47 PM djdelorie: and I electrocuted one of the bldc drivers, so I'll be redesigning those too
04:04 PM JT-Shop: hmm something is making a whining noise in the spindle of the VMC :(
04:05 PM htasta: maybe a sad gnome?
04:06 PM Tom_L: not a good sign
04:38 PM JT-Shop: whew it is the coolant pump vibrating on the coolant cover
04:44 PM Tom_L: that's a relief
04:44 PM JT-Shop: yup
04:44 PM * JT-Shop punches out and takes the rest of the day off
04:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: my neighbors air compressor sounded like it was about to rattle apart
04:46 PM JT-Shop: oh and the horse guy is coming to pick up the scissors lift up tomorrow!
04:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: ends up the mechanic left for 3 weeks with the compressor resting on top of a pile of pallets
04:46 PM Tom_L: the girl didn't want it bad enough ehh?
04:47 PM JT-Shop: I think his wife was the first to contact me
04:47 PM Tom_L: oh
04:48 PM JT-Shop: they will use it to lift wheelchair people up high enough to get onto a horse
04:48 PM Tom_L: that's cool
05:09 PM CaptHindsight[m]: JT-Shop: is that it for new shop space for you?
05:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: you know as soon as you sell off all the tools you'll get some project that requires more space
05:15 PM JT-Shop: well it's under a workbench so does not take up any room but not needed anymore
05:15 PM JT-Shop: when J&J Automation was blowing and going we built a lot of assembly machines and the scissors lift was a huge help
05:28 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, just cut a 10 segment ring and it came out nice
05:28 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:32 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, nice... pics or it never happened :)
05:33 PM JT-Shop: lol
05:33 PM Tom_L: did you load that file i posted?
05:33 PM JT-Shop: gotta figure out the glue up routine
05:33 PM Tom_L: may not need it now but it might come in handy sometime
05:33 PM JT-Shop: yes I did take a look at it seems slow to calculate
05:34 PM Tom_L: really?
05:34 PM Tom_L: it's pretty instant on mine
05:34 PM JT-Shop: pretty old PC down in the beer cave
05:34 PM JT-Shop: I have a spreadsheet that works well
05:34 PM Tom_L: well that cad takes a bit of oomph
05:35 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/wood-working/wedge-sled/Polygon.ods
05:35 PM Tom_L: i learned a few things and that was the real goal
05:35 PM JT-Shop: yep, same for me is to learn
05:36 PM Tom_L: it used a couple features from a workbench i'd never used
05:38 PM Tom_L: it's got a wireframe & surfaces workbench but also a shapes design workbench which is more powerful
05:39 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/wood-working/wedge-sled/10-seg-walnut.jpg
05:39 PM JT-Shop: need to figure out how I'm going to glue it up lol
05:40 PM Tom_L: no band clamps?
05:40 PM solarwind: There was someone on here that used to make spring steel, can't remember his name
05:41 PM solarwind: He knew a lot about steel metallurgy
05:41 PM Tom_L: andy has a degree n it
05:41 PM JT-Shop: rubber band but holding them still while applying the rubber band is the trick
05:41 PM solarwind: andypugh that's the guy, thanks Tom_L
05:41 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, grow a couple more hands
05:42 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, put a plate on top with a weight then apply the bands
05:42 PM solarwind: andypugh, I have a question for you: the "black iron" pipe fitting that home depot sells are made of some questionable alloy. It's ductile, but it also has a lot of carbon. If I melt a bit of it and let it air cool, it becomes super hard (and brittle?)
05:42 PM solarwind: What's that all about?
05:43 PM solarwind: I'm guessing it's some sort of cast iron
05:43 PM solarwind: So if I anneal it, should it return to its original ductile state?
05:44 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, nice even joints
05:44 PM solarwind: andypugh Jody does the same thing: https://youtu.be/y6ccw7X8zeI?t=184
05:44 PM roycroft: if you're talking about what i see sold as 'black pipe' it's just an inexpensive, low strength carbon steel
05:44 PM solarwind: roycroft it has a very high carbon content. It readily hardens
05:44 PM roycroft: the imporant thing about it is that it is not galvanized, and therefore not suitable for water
05:44 PM solarwind: The video above shows exactly what I'm talking about. I have the same experience as Jody with those
05:45 PM roycroft: unless you're talking about "cast iron drain pipe"
05:45 PM roycroft: that's a completely different metal
05:45 PM solarwind: No, this is the weirdness of it. It's not quite mild steel. But it seems to be cast and has a very high carbon content and readily hardens
05:45 PM roycroft: here, "black pipe" comes in the standard nominal pipe sizes, is threaded, and used for conducting gas
05:45 PM solarwind: See the video for exactly what I'm talking about
05:47 PM solarwind: He mentions the exact same behaviour of those home depot black pipe fittings
05:47 PM djdelorie: JT-Shop: when I was doing segmented turnings, I had a plate with 12 rows of holes out from the center. I'd put nails in them to hold the rubber band while I set up the segments, then could remove the nails one at a time
06:14 PM JT-Shop: good idea, the glue provided enough stick to make it pretty easy... this time
06:14 PM djdelorie: iirc I cut slots where the glue joints would be, too. I can try to find it and photo it if needed
06:15 PM JT-Shop: I make various sizes and segment count
06:15 PM JT-Shop: I just put wax paper under the segments
06:16 PM djdelorie: I waxed the plate itself
06:17 PM djdelorie: the rows of holes account for ring size
06:17 PM djdelorie: I didn't do much other than 12 segments
06:18 PM XXCoder: that funture restore guy uses tapes to keep glue seperate
06:18 PM XXCoder: surpising works very well. he uses various glues
06:18 PM JT-Shop: my sled will do 8, 10, 12, 16, 24 and 32
06:18 PM JT-Shop: rabbit food time...
06:21 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:52 PM roycroft: i use a combination of ca glue and other glues at times
06:52 PM roycroft: the ca glue for some instant adhesion where clamping might not work well, and other glues for a more permanent bond
06:52 PM XXCoder: that guy usually use glues thats reversable
06:53 PM XXCoder: only uses epoxy or perment bond for repairing part thats supposed to be single part
06:53 PM roycroft: and as far as "other glues" i usually use one of the titebond glues where i'm using ca glue
06:53 PM roycroft: i use hide glue for many things, which is reversable, but it also sets up quickly, so i don't need ca glue for that
06:53 PM roycroft: and i use epoxy for a lot of things as well
06:54 PM roycroft: but i haven't had good results when i use ca glue for temporary holding and epoxy for the permanent bond
06:54 PM roycroft: so i never use that combination
06:55 PM roycroft: the epoxy resin seems to weaken or dissolve the ca glue bond
06:55 PM roycroft: the overall point being that it's good to have a variety of glues in one's kit
06:56 PM roycroft: and to know which one is best for the application at hand
06:56 PM roycroft: i've tried that liquid hide glue, btw, and i'm not a fan
06:56 PM roycroft: it works reasonably well, but it's not as strong as traditional hide glue, and it doesn't keep very long, even when refrigerated
06:56 PM roycroft: i have never used up a bottle
06:56 PM roycroft: i have purchased a number of bottles and tossed them while they are 3/4 or more full
06:57 PM roycroft: but i don't use hide glue as often as someone like that furniture restorer guy
09:00 PM flyback: https://imgur.com/a/TkbvKDO