Jan 24 2022
12:45 AM Bleepshop: Anybody close to New Mexico set up to cut a set of ER20 collet blocks? I'm looking ofr a hex and a square but the smallest I can find readily is ER25.
12:53 AM XXCoder: took me way too long to figure what you meant. cant buy any anywhere?
12:55 AM XXCoder: you probably can do a quick and very cheap 4th axis build
12:55 AM Bleepshop: XXCoder: Wrong direction. Collet block holds a collet.
12:55 AM XXCoder: Bleepshop: I know. lol
12:55 AM XXCoder: I was talking about holding block in say vise, so on
12:56 AM Bleepshop: Vises and vices I can deal with. ;D
12:56 AM XXCoder: lol
12:56 AM XXCoder: well
12:56 AM * Bleepshop is indulging in a vice right now... Ahhh nicotene... LOL
12:57 AM XXCoder: whats issue with er25?
12:57 AM Bleepshop: My spindle is ER20 and I want to use my collet set.
12:57 AM XXCoder: ahh dont want to buy yet another set. makes sense
12:57 AM XXCoder: no adoptor for er25 to er20?
12:58 AM XXCoder: i know theres few adoptors
12:58 AM XXCoder: ut 25 to 20 dunno
12:58 AM Bleepshop: Not just that but have you watched the probe build vid?
12:58 AM XXCoder: or maybe larger one to er20
12:58 AM XXCoder: yep looked awesome
12:59 AM XXCoder: anyway adoptor you would only need one collet - one sized to hold adoptor to er20
01:00 AM Bleepshop: I can get 1/2" shank to ER20 easy enough, but then it's a 5C or MT2 holder to hold that and it gets ridiculously recursive real quick. LOL
01:02 AM Bleepshop: I've only got ~3' of clearance in the drill press and the old Logan lathe only has a 60" bed. Either way i don't want to deal with stacked adapters and added wobble. LOL
01:05 AM XXCoder: makes sense. well dunno if it even exists, er20 collet block set
01:06 AM XXCoder: buy 2 of https://www.amazon.com/Collet-Block-C25-ER20-45L-Holder-Spindle/dp/B083QFJ1TT
01:06 AM XXCoder: mill one to have hex, and one to be square
01:08 AM Lcvette[m]: Has anyone had a debug error hm2_7i76e.0.7i76.0.0.input-00 exists
01:08 AM Lcvette[m]: s/exists/does not exist/
01:18 AM XXCoder: is that HAL config?
01:18 AM XXCoder: I guess output must exist first before you can use it as input. thats basically what I can think of
01:18 AM Lcvette[m]: XXCoder: yeah Hal config
01:18 AM XXCoder: ok. my well... general advice works then.
01:18 AM Bleepshop: XXCoder: I want these in ER20. https://www.amazon.com/Hexagonal-Workpiece-Holders-Engraving-Cutting/dp/B091H7HDMY/
01:18 AM XXCoder: hopefully someone can detail it more specific
01:32 AM miss0r: morning
02:16 AM randy: morning
02:29 AM XXCoder: back
04:35 AM enleth: Bleepshop: see if you can get square and hex bar collets for ER20, they exist for some collet types and you can use them to transfer the square/hex shape of the bar into the collet block you're modifying
04:36 AM enleth: or, turn a piece of square and hex so it's partially round, to hold it in a regular collet
04:36 AM enleth: but non-round collets are cool
05:05 AM john__: morning
05:06 AM Tom_L: morning
05:07 AM Tom_L: 36°F
05:08 AM Tom_L: high 56°F
05:09 AM john__: 30°F high 54°F but tomorrow starts another cold front
05:13 AM Tom_L: low tomorrow 20°F
06:14 AM andypugh: You _could_ make a special nut and a tapered sleeve to adapt an ER32 (or ER25) hex collet block to hold an ER20 shank.
06:16 AM andypugh: But it’s probably easier to make the probe with a straight 20mm shank to hold in an ER32 collet block, then machine the ER20 taper after the other machining.
06:17 AM XXCoder: hey andypugh nice video
06:17 AM andypugh: Hopefully you could then in-situ machine the hub face and thread in your ER-20 spindle using the screw-from-the-back trick to recover any inacuracy introduced by the two-step process.
06:17 AM andypugh: Bleepshop: <ping> ^^
06:17 AM XXCoder: also, I was thinking he could turn er20 holder thingy I linked into one of block collet by machining the back part of it into square of hex
06:18 AM andypugh: Yes, but if you have the capability to machine an accurate hex collet block you don’t need one….
06:18 AM XXCoder: true I was wondering if there can be a trick to making accurate one, if tough to do
06:19 AM XXCoder: then you has it to easily do it
06:28 AM andypugh: I guess you would need a sine-vice and gauge blocks to set up an accurate 60 degree angle then machine / grind the hex facets. Then find the centre (or trust a 3-jaw chuck) and machine the threads and taper.
06:29 AM XXCoder: im not sure why need angle, because he wanted a block collet holder for er20
06:29 AM XXCoder: one I linked to, is extension for er20, so it already has place for er20 collets
06:30 AM XXCoder: thread too. though back is round, so thats what I mean when need to machine it to good square or ehx
06:30 AM andypugh: To make a probe he needs a hex.
06:30 AM XXCoder: yeah. not sure how that would be done
06:31 AM XXCoder: ah yes
06:31 AM XXCoder: thats where 60 degree comes in
06:31 AM XXCoder: dumb me
06:31 AM XXCoder: size would have to be pretty accurate so all 6 sides is equal in distance from center
06:32 AM andypugh: Thoough a bit of sketching has me thinking that you want a vice at 30 degrees, then you clamp the flats against the jaws, as you make them. That will give a goof hex, but not necessarily one centred on where the centre of the round bar was….
06:33 AM andypugh: Possibly that can be fixed by sliding it down into a V-block. to stop on the remaining bits of round bar at the corners.
06:33 AM XXCoder: I guess it isnt nesscary to completely de-round it
06:33 AM XXCoder: just need reasonable flat areas
06:34 AM XXCoder: so theres still small amount of orginial radius
06:35 AM andypugh: Or…. Bleepshop Do you have a 3D printer? You could _print_ a collet block. :-)
06:35 AM XXCoder: ya know
06:35 AM XXCoder: you COULD print a collet block for machining those parts
06:36 AM XXCoder: would need to measure sides make sure equal all sides then its good to go
06:36 AM andypugh: I have printed a collet once, to hold a tap.
06:36 AM XXCoder: nice
06:36 AM andypugh: (Wanted to hold on the bottom of the flutes)
06:38 AM andypugh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jNfQhiaKQUufmR747
06:38 AM XXCoder: interesting indeed
07:10 AM john__: got to use my Made in Sheffield chuck yesterday and it is nice
07:27 AM andypugh: john__: Which Sheffield :-) (And what brand?)
07:27 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:47 AM unterhausen: I"m watching a video that says I should use an old version of cura, but not why
10:27 AM perry_j1987: good morning
10:28 AM perry_j1987: why did you need to hold the bottom of the flutes andypugh
10:31 AM roycroft: hello, folks
10:31 AM roycroft: has anyone here ever done any japanning on tools?
10:32 AM CloudEvil: Only Scottishing.
10:32 AM CloudEvil: (leave in unheated damp shed for attractive brown patina)
10:34 AM perry_j1987: i've been an expert in that finishing technique before CloudEvil
10:34 AM roycroft: i'll be doing some experienting soon
10:35 AM roycroft: there are generally two types of recipes for the japanning - one with added resin and one without
10:35 AM roycroft: i already have some gilsonite, and have some copal resin arriving soon
10:36 AM roycroft: it may take several experiments before i get results that i like, and was hoping to hear from someone who has done it about the resin addition
10:36 AM roycroft: but that can just be another variable for the sample batches
10:37 AM roycroft: good japanning can prevent scottishing :)
10:40 AM CloudEvil: I kinda wished for a while that we could just make everything out of stainless.
10:40 AM CloudEvil: My current view is wishing we could just leave out the oxygen.
10:44 AM roycroft: stainless steel has some desirable properties, but many undesirable ones
10:44 AM CloudEvil: PMSS can help there.
10:44 AM roycroft: but regardless of that, a lot of stuff has been made already that is not stainless steel
10:44 AM CloudEvil: But that gets unreasonably expensive often and has other issues
10:45 AM roycroft: i don't see how it could hold a good edge
10:45 AM roycroft: which is one of the big problems of all stainless steels
10:49 AM roycroft: the chromium that migrates to the edge of the metal and provides corrosion resistance forms ginormous (relative to the base metals) oxide molecules that are hard and brittle
10:49 AM CloudEvil: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/ you may find interesting, though long
10:49 AM andypugh: perry_j1987: Because the cutting teeth were tapered and relieved.
10:49 AM perry_j1987: k
10:53 AM roycroft: it is long
10:53 AM roycroft: i just skimmed it for now
10:53 AM roycroft: it talks a lot about toughness, but not about edge quality
10:54 AM roycroft: and that's the problem with any corrosion-resistant steel
10:54 AM roycroft: veritas have a good pmss formula that they use for their premium plane/chisel blades - pvm-11
10:55 AM roycroft: virtually every report/test i've heard of puts the quality between o1 and a2
10:55 AM roycroft: it has better edge quality than a2
10:55 AM roycroft: and it has better toughness than o1
10:55 AM roycroft: but it still cannot be honed to as keen an edge as 01
10:55 AM roycroft: o1
11:53 AM andypugh: I developed a novel steel formulation once….
11:53 AM andypugh: It was the second job in a row where Erbium was important. I bet not a lot of people can say that.
11:55 AM andypugh: (erbium was used to push back the nose of the TTT diagram so that it was easier to quench the steel to very fine pearlite, so that it would work-harden optimally during later cold-rolling. This was to make spring-steel)
11:57 AM roycroft: i'm not familiar with using erbium in steel
11:58 AM roycroft: but i see that it is used to somewhat counter the hardness of vanadium
01:31 PM roycroft: i've ordered an ssd upgrade kit for my imac
01:31 PM roycroft: hopefully that will get rid of some of the slowness
01:32 PM roycroft: i know that's part of my problem with sw performance - the imac has an old, 5400rpm hard drive internally that is starting to get bad sectors, and my virtual machine images are on an external usb2 drive
01:32 PM roycroft: soon it will all be on a nice, internal 2TB SSD
01:34 PM andreas63: had the same problem,old HDD had more and more bad sectors and was about to die so i got used one.
01:35 PM andreas63: ssd works like charme
01:39 PM roycroft: yes, but it's not easy to install in an imac
01:39 PM roycroft: it will be worth the effort, though
01:39 PM andypugh: I swapped the HD in my 27” iMac (previous one, without the feather edges)
01:39 PM andypugh: It wasn’t _too_ bad.
01:40 PM roycroft: i'm not concerned about it
01:40 PM roycroft: there are lots of reports of the new adhesive tape failing and the screen falling off, but i would guess that most of those cases, if not all, are due to inproper installatin
01:41 PM roycroft: i can almost guarantee that some folks did not clean the old adhesive off properly before installing the new
01:47 PM roycroft: sarah palin's libel case against the nyt was supposed to finally start today
01:47 PM Tom_L: if you're worried about the tape get some automotive trim tape :)
01:47 PM roycroft: but now it's been postponed because she tested positive this weekend
01:47 PM roycroft: i'm not worried about it
01:48 PM Tom_L: what's your ssd brand of choice?
01:48 PM roycroft: but to be certain, after i reassemble the machine i'll support the screen with some tape or something for a while
01:49 PM roycroft: i got a kit that is rated well - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076LJFND3
01:50 PM roycroft: owc drives get good reviews
01:51 PM roycroft: and that kit comes with the disassembly tools, the screen tape, and the thermal sensor
03:43 PM andypugh: roycroft: And a very clear video: https://youtu.be/ROVQLonvs8Q
03:45 PM roycroft: yeah, i watched that already
03:45 PM roycroft: i'm not afraid of the job :)
03:46 PM roycroft: my takeaway from that video is that as long as i pay attention and proceed carefully, it's a very straightforward operation
03:47 PM roycroft: and i have, in the past, disassembled and reassembled other apple products that are taped together
03:47 PM roycroft: with 100% success
03:47 PM andypugh: Yes, once you get past “ZOMG I need to cut foam tape!” there is nothing to it. And actually peeling back the shielding tape on the older models was more of a hassle as with the kit there is new tape.
03:48 PM roycroft: i think the key will be to do an acetone or methylated spirits wipedown of the taped areas after removing the old adhesive
03:49 PM roycroft: i suspect many folks both don't remove every trace of the original adhesive, and do not clean the adhesive areas well before reassembling with the new tape
03:49 PM cradek_: alcohol (IPA), not acetone!
03:49 PM roycroft: worse, they probably touch the adhesive area with their fingers as well as not cleaning it
03:50 PM cradek_: when I foam-taped my android back together I used about a quarter of the tape so I can open it more easily next time. it's not like it's gonna fly apart...
03:50 PM roycroft: i do not have any isopropyl alcohol, and none has been available locally for over 2 years
03:50 PM roycroft: which is why i have none - i ran out
03:51 PM cradek_: hm, I buy it at the hardware store by the gallon (it says "appliance fuel"). is this a midwest thing?
03:51 PM roycroft: i thought that was denatured ethanol
03:51 PM roycroft: which i do have
03:51 PM cradek_: oh, use that :-)
03:52 PM roycroft: but i have no isopropanol
03:52 PM roycroft: methylated spirits = denatured ethanol
03:53 PM cradek_: is that the same as methanol?
03:53 PM roycroft: no
03:53 PM cradek_: siiigh
03:53 PM roycroft: it's ethanol with methanol (and other things) added to make it undrinkable
03:53 PM cradek_: sorry I didn't mean to nuke the subject
03:53 PM cradek_ is now known as cradek
03:53 PM roycroft: the methanol is poisonous
03:54 PM andypugh: I have IPA. I think I bought it on eBay. (UK(
03:54 PM roycroft: denatonium is often added to make it taste extremely bitter to the point of being revolting
03:54 PM roycroft: it is the most bitter compound known to humankind
03:54 PM cradek: wow
03:54 PM roycroft: more bitter even than the heart of a politician
03:56 PM andypugh: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373151408769
03:56 PM andypugh: Same shop has MEK too.
03:57 PM roycroft: i can still buy mek locally
03:57 PM roycroft: i'm not in california :)
03:58 PM roycroft: and i think that 70% isopropanol is semi-available here now, but i usually use 91%, which i haven't seen in over two years
03:58 PM roycroft: the purer form evaporates faster and leaves less residue
03:58 PM Tom_L: odd, it's sold everywhere here
03:59 PM roycroft: it used to be here
03:59 PM XXCoder: yeah it varies a lot
03:59 PM roycroft: but the pharmacy shelves are still empty
03:59 PM XXCoder: here it was hard to get above 70% but easy now
03:59 PM roycroft: i haven't checked in a while
03:59 PM roycroft: perhaps it's back in stock finally
03:59 PM roycroft: i need to go to bi-mart later on today - i'll check then
03:59 PM roycroft: i like to use it for cleaning things
04:00 PM Tom_L: i used everclear on negatives years back
04:00 PM roycroft: i've used everclear to clean soldering flux off pcbs
04:00 PM roycroft: because that is what was available at the time
04:01 PM roycroft: i remember trying to drink a wee bit of everclear when i was just out of high school
04:01 PM roycroft: i only ever tried the once
04:01 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:31 PM JT-MachineShop: I just discovered you need to align the headstock and tailstock on the jet lathe because the stop pin has some slop
05:32 PM JT-MachineShop: didn't take me long to understand how a 5/8 forstner bit made a 3/4 hole
05:32 PM Tom_L: that's a ways off
05:37 PM XXCoder: ow heh
05:37 PM JT-MachineShop: just a bit, it's a swivel headstock so it can be positioned facing you or facing the tailstock
05:37 PM JT-MachineShop: just a bit of pine so no big loss it goes in the wonderwood tomorrow for heat
05:38 PM JT-MachineShop: first time I've drilled a hole so it caught me by surprise for sure
05:38 PM roycroft: that must have been a bit rough on the forstner drill
05:38 PM JT-MachineShop: mlsc just sent me a catalog with a stepper driven router lift
05:39 PM JT-MachineShop: made a smooth hole
05:40 PM * JT-MachineShop watches the chicken bed time rodeo on camera
05:41 PM roycroft: i need to get back to cad work soon
05:41 PM roycroft: i did some stuff early this morning, before work
05:41 PM roycroft: i wish i had a bigger shop - it's really hard designing this router to fit in the space i have for it
05:42 PM roycroft: and still have the capacity i desire
05:42 PM andypugh: Hah! Have you seen my workshop?
05:43 PM roycroft: i've seen bits of it
05:43 PM roycroft: i think clickspring has us all beat for big work in a small workshop
05:43 PM roycroft: at least he used to
05:44 PM roycroft: i suspect that with the new machines he's been getting he has built an extension or moved
05:44 PM andypugh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/tKuaaBUJmQxYsW1S7
05:45 PM andypugh: Though since I took that photo the chinese lathe has gone and been replaced by a fly press. And the bicycle has been upgraded.
05:45 PM roycroft: that is definitely smaller than my woodshop
05:45 PM roycroft: but i have more machines than that, and need room to work on fairly large parts
05:47 PM roycroft: at the rate i'm going, i wonder if i'll even get my router design completed by summer, which is my target for getting the thing built and working
05:47 PM roycroft: but i've discovered some tricks to make sw run faster, and every change is an improvement
05:47 PM roycroft: so i'm doing ok
05:56 PM Tom_L: andy uses the living room for lathes too though :_
06:22 PM JT-MachineShop: and stays up all night
06:24 PM JT-MachineShop: got the $75 box of parts to "fix" my free Hollywood Racks bike rack
06:25 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:26 PM JT-Shop: a guy ordered two air filter kits from spyderstore.com and selected free shipping... the first line of the description says free shipping is not available for that item due to the weight
06:27 PM JT-Shop: I sent a paypal invoice for shipping and emailed him with no response... after a few days I'll just refund his money, that should get his attention
06:29 PM Tom_L: heh
06:30 PM JT-Shop: got a guy from Jonesboro that wants my PSI chuck set :)
06:30 PM Tom_L: didn't take long
06:31 PM JT-Shop: first guy wanted to trade some stuff one item I would take plus some cash but he backed out
06:31 PM JT-Shop: my attitude is if it's not in my way I don't care how long it takes to find it a new zip code
06:33 PM JT-Shop: crap forgot to take the hose off...
06:34 PM Tom_L: woops
06:34 PM Tom_L: shouldn't be a hard freeze though
06:36 PM JT-Shop: 23°F tonight but I don't like to leave it on the spigot during a freeze
06:36 PM JT-Shop: had a good ride today and ate too much but that's to be expected when we go out
06:36 PM Tom_L: what did we have?
06:37 PM JT-Shop: almost forgot to torque the lug nuts from the brake work yesterday
06:37 PM Tom_L: that woudld be bad
06:37 PM JT-Shop: crab rangoon, potato soup, jambalaya
06:38 PM JT-Shop: they were sorta tight about 30-40 foot pounds but not the 100 foot pounds they should be
06:38 PM JT-Shop: wife had rack of lamb
06:39 PM JT-Shop: tomorrow a camera guy is demonstrating a robot camera that can pick loose items from a box
06:40 PM JT-Shop: Revere is pushing to get robots for assembly, they have press robots now on a lot of presses
06:41 PM Tom_L: the mixer guys?
06:41 PM JT-Shop: aye
06:42 PM JT-Shop: they do a lot of Briggs tanks and covers
06:42 PM Tom_L: huh
06:42 PM Tom_L: plastics plant?
06:42 PM JT-Shop: aye
06:43 PM Tom_L: wescon here did mower handles, cables etc and cosmetic, medical plastics
06:43 PM JT-Shop: they are doing the handle for the mixer for whirlpool
06:43 PM Tom_L: i went thru there once when a friend was a rep for them
06:44 PM JT-Shop: I'm in there so much most of the operators know me
06:44 PM Tom_L: on the same street the fest was held
06:44 PM Tom_L: years back
06:44 PM JT-Shop: I almost came to a fest
06:44 PM Tom_L: should have
06:45 PM Tom_L: i wasn't there long
06:45 PM JT-Shop: I planned to but got busy with work
06:46 PM JT-Shop: time to pack it in and call it a day
06:46 PM Tom_L: i'm just finishing up
06:56 PM roycroft: so i'm back from errands now, and can report
06:57 PM roycroft: neither of the pharmacies i went to had any form of isopropanol at all
06:57 PM roycroft: the market where i purchase groceries had a few bottles of 70%, but no 91%
06:59 PM roycroft: that's an improvement, but not much of one
07:58 PM perry_j1987: there we go
07:59 PM perry_j1987: got the z axis upgraded
08:03 PM roycroft: i'm still designing my z axis
08:05 PM perry_j1987: i modified this prebuilt z axis to hold double length bearings for the smooth rods
08:05 PM perry_j1987: got it all installed and getting it back on the machine now
08:40 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/CNC-Router/Full-Assembly-Preliminary-3.jpeg
08:42 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/CNC-Router/Full-Assembly-Preliminary-3-Front-View.jpeg
08:42 PM roycroft: i have added t-track for the dust shoe
08:42 PM roycroft: and elminated those side pieces
08:42 PM roycroft: and made a bunch of other changes to the z
08:48 PM Tom_L: do you have a hard stop on the z bottom?
08:49 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/X_Axis_endplate.jpg
08:57 PM roycroft: not at the moment - i removed it for this revision
08:57 PM roycroft: but i'll add one back soon
08:59 PM roycroft: i am also thinking about moving the z axis guide rails more towards the outer edges of the mounting plate - i have room to do that now
09:00 PM roycroft: but the work i did on the z axis today is a huge improvement, i think
09:01 PM roycroft: the work i've done today so far, i should say
09:01 PM roycroft: i hope to have some time to work on it further after dinner
09:09 PM Tom_L: moving the z rails probably won't make much difference
09:10 PM Tom_L: and keeping them tucked under the plate will help protect them
09:14 PM roycroft: they would remain tucked under the plate
09:14 PM roycroft: but it may be more work to move them than it would be worth
09:17 PM roycroft: i had forgotten that st:voyage had an oldies run during season six
09:17 PM roycroft: first, kes came back
09:17 PM roycroft: then counselor troy
09:17 PM roycroft: now it's full-on borg - including the borg queen
10:29 PM XXCoder: insane
10:29 PM XXCoder: https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/sc3nrc/behold_the_2_million_dollar_benchy_printed_on_a/
10:34 PM Bleepshop: XXCoder: Send me the printer and I'll send you an inconel Benchy too. ;D
10:42 PM XXCoder: sure ill send you a printer
10:42 PM Bleepshop: Right after I use the original patent drawings to run off a 1911A. >:)
10:42 PM XXCoder: lol
10:42 PM XXCoder: man incnol printer sounds so cool
10:42 PM XXCoder: honestly what I really want is SLS printer
10:42 PM XXCoder: one that can do Ti
10:51 PM flyback: https://mcklain.bandcamp.com/track/funky-stars-amstrad-cpc-true-8bit-version
11:28 PM Bleepshop: To qoute Deadpool "I should have worn my white pants.". LMAO
11:29 PM XXCoder: ?
11:30 PM Bleepshop: XXCoder: Oh go watch a movie. ;D
11:30 PM XXCoder: not what I meant
11:31 PM XXCoder: whats so organistic about those 8 bit songs?
11:31 PM Bleepshop: That heat exchanger unit and the ability to print it as a single monolithic piece.
11:31 PM XXCoder: oh lol
11:33 PM Bleepshop: XXCoder: And the word you were looking for is 'orgasmic'. LOL
11:34 PM XXCoder: yeah well I so rarely use that word lol'
11:36 PM Bleepshop: You should get out more... Or in more as the case may be... LOL
11:37 PM XXCoder: lol