#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 23 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:44 AM Bleepshop: andypugh: Both of them. If you were in the US, I'd ship you a brick of the Acetron GP I've got sitting here.
01:02 AM XXCoder: hour and 20 or so here
01:39 AM Deejay: moin
01:53 AM perry_j1987: amazon didnt deliver my bearings today
01:53 AM perry_j1987: hope they get them to me tomorrow
02:32 AM XXCoder: aww
05:12 AM miss0r: yay, I finally cought the china virus :]
05:13 AM XXCoder: :(
05:13 AM miss0r: Its okay, its hardly more than a mild cold in my case
05:14 AM XXCoder: yeah. you isolating for now?
05:15 AM XXCoder: my brother is still waitinf for results is isolating himself too
05:15 AM miss0r: yup. me and the rest of my household
05:15 AM miss0r: I got the result yesterday. but i've been in the homeshop for the past two days anyway, so the isolation is pretty good
05:16 AM XXCoder: :) I hope my brother dont get it. only one here in house is healthy, rest of us has some health issues
05:16 AM miss0r: it means I have some time to work on my coilgun project, which I don't mind. The only sucky thing is that I have a baglog of costumer issues I need to get started on asap.. (at the clients)
05:16 AM miss0r: Yeah, I know you have some respatory issues, right? don't want you to get it
05:17 AM XXCoder: lungs damaged, perment dizzyness
05:17 AM miss0r: even more reason not to get it
05:17 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:18 AM miss0r: I spend most of yesterday in bed - not because I was completely dead, just to try and give my immune system the best chance at fighting it. I'm not too good at taking care of myself in the day to day stuff.. not getting enough sleep ect. so I gave that a go
05:18 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:18 AM miss0r: morning JT
05:20 AM XXCoder: great idea though keep eat healthy
05:20 AM XXCoder: yo
05:20 AM miss0r: Yeah.. I do get my veggies though
05:20 AM miss0r: but given the choice, I'd take a red steak :D
05:20 AM XXCoder: lol
05:20 AM Tom_L: morning
05:21 AM XXCoder: yo
05:21 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/elevated-dust-bath/
05:22 AM JT-Cave: miss0r, been messing about in the wood shop
05:22 AM XXCoder: nice!
05:22 AM XXCoder: that thing could belong in house
05:22 AM XXCoder: very well finished
05:22 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/
05:22 AM XXCoder: just add rubber pads and glass top
05:22 AM JT-Cave: you should see it now lol
05:23 AM XXCoder: and its a nice side for couch or something lol
05:23 AM XXCoder: lol
05:23 AM miss0r: JT-Cave: That is looking pretty damn good
05:24 AM miss0r: we can't have nice things 'round here. That thing would not last a second with my kids
05:24 AM JT-Cave: thanks, just made it from bits of red oak top is 8 small pieces finger joints and spline joints
05:24 AM miss0r: This morning the small one painted my wifes white office table with her eyeliner...
05:25 AM XXCoder: lol
05:25 AM miss0r: well.. not eye liner.. The thing with the brush filled with black paint uses for the eye lashes..
05:25 AM miss0r: I don't know the name
05:25 AM miss0r: but it makes a hellova mess
05:25 AM JT-Cave: I bet
05:25 AM miss0r: Those two kids are just put in this world to test my temper
05:26 AM JT-Cave: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/calling-any-one-from-missouri.73271/page-1517
05:26 AM JT-Cave: my kids are worse than your kids lol
05:27 AM JT-Cave: https://www.backyardchickens.com/attachments/edb-22-jpg.2964914/
05:27 AM XXCoder: blessed indeed
05:28 AM miss0r: A few years ago the big one locked himself in the bactroom, being pissed about something (I can't recall what, but I bet you it was something trivial). I let him be to cool off for a while. I walk past the bathroom a few moments later and get wet socks
05:29 AM miss0r: I told him to open the door, and he refused. I get pissed and yell at him to open the door, but he still refuses.
05:29 AM miss0r: I went and got a screwdriver, so I could unlock the lock form the outside. Turns out he was filling an empty soap dispencer with water, and pumping it into the door through the keyhole.
05:29 AM miss0r: This is one of those 'hollow' doors, that are light weight. Only this one sloshed from the inside once I got it open
05:30 AM miss0r: I lifted it off the hinges, ran outside with it, and drilled a hole in the bottom to drain out almost a full liter of water.
05:30 AM XXCoder: ow that can get expensive
05:31 AM miss0r: then spend a few hours with an electric heater and some paper towels trying to dry out the floor outside the bathroom (old wood floor topped with laminated click floor(made of decorative wood patern plastic laminate on top of MDF))
05:31 AM miss0r: Needless to say, he was not realy popular that day. So I repeat; We cannot have nice things as of yet
05:32 AM miss0r: I managed to not have the door go out of whack, and the floor only suffered minor bumps. But still
05:32 AM miss0r: Actualy, I get a little pissed recalling the event :D
05:32 AM XXCoder: in house water is really bad when not controlled
05:32 AM miss0r: or when controlled by an irate 4year old
05:33 AM JT-Cave: wow when my daughter was young I would promise her to whip her ass if she did something wrong again and I kept my promise
05:33 AM miss0r: did it work?
05:34 AM XXCoder: my brother family, they only paddled kids maybe 3 or 4. shout maybe few times more
05:34 AM XXCoder: kids know its very serious if yelled at
05:34 AM XXCoder: (kids is hearing, except for one.)
05:35 AM Tom_L: it's not so much the punishment, it's the follow thru
05:35 AM XXCoder: indeed
05:35 AM miss0r: I'm sad to say i'm too much of a softie when it comes to that. I could never do that. They might grow up to be serial killers for that
05:36 AM XXCoder: yeah ill never have kids
05:36 AM miss0r: but it seems that no candy/phone/tv for a week also works well :)
05:36 AM XXCoder: loss of privaleges is exellent
05:36 AM JT-Cave: yes it worked she turned out to be a hard working girl
05:37 AM Tom_L: we used similar methods
05:38 AM miss0r: well, I never got my ass whooped as a kid. And not because there was a lack of reasons, believe you me :D and I think I turned out alright, running my own buisness'n all
05:39 AM XXCoder: I grew up under pretty awful (could be worse!) envorment
05:39 AM XXCoder: didnt help that we was so poor
05:39 AM XXCoder: homeless for over a year, I cannot recall that era
05:40 AM XXCoder: im so glad my brothers children is so much better off than my egneration
05:41 AM XXCoder: bit unfortunate that my brother will never be uncle, just half uncle at best
05:41 AM JT-Cave: my sister was a principal at a school and told the offenders that for every action there are consequences good actions have good consequences and bad actions have bad consequences
05:43 AM miss0r: sounds like something of an upbringing.
05:44 AM miss0r: I've been born into a comfortable middleclass, and is still here :]
05:44 AM XXCoder: yeah. thats good general basically
05:44 AM XXCoder: sometimes inverts happen but thats life
05:45 AM miss0r: true
07:41 AM JT-Cave: dammit astral library in debian is old and I have to use pip3 which installs a crap load of stuff to get the latest python3-astral
08:23 AM JT-Cave: hmm I need to connect a couple of relays and some switches to the rpi to test my new chicken door code
09:06 AM andypugh: JT-Cave: Sometimes good actions have bad consequences, and bad actions have good consequences….
09:07 AM andypugh: Unless you define actions _by_ their consequences, but that assumes prescience on the part of those choosing the actions.
09:14 AM JT-Cave: tis true but you would not want to inform a school age child that when they have been sent to the principals office for something bad
09:18 AM andypugh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie-to-children
10:01 AM unterhausen: I have an Omron power supply where the manual labels the AC input as DC and the DC output as AC
10:01 AM unterhausen: on the same figure it labels them correctly, but it's strangely disconcerting
10:03 AM Tom_L: is that better or worse than no labelling at all?
10:03 AM unterhausen: it's fine this way really
10:04 AM unterhausen: "surge" is spelled "serge" which means the person could speak english but not spell
10:04 AM jdh: that was his name
10:06 AM unterhausen: serge is a word, I have a serger. But it's a sewing machine
10:31 AM Rab: Disconcerting indeed, I don't think of Omron as an off-brand.
10:42 AM unterhausen: They probably hired a translator that didn't have a technical background
11:14 AM unterhausen: looking at tool holder storage racks. Someone took a thingiverse design, printed out 6 of them, bolted them to a piece of 80/20 and is trying to sell that on ebay for $175
11:14 AM unterhausen: good luck
11:14 AM unterhausen: at least they made me realize that AXA and BXA will fit on the same storage rack
11:46 AM Deejay: re
11:57 AM unterhausen: I got an email about a perkier heat sink. Perkier == Peltier
11:57 AM unterhausen: I guess text to speech never heard of Peltier
12:15 PM _unreal_: hello
12:15 PM _unreal_: so I just got my two 4x4" square tubes ground. got the FOOT cut off of one "welded on parts" and some other parts that were welded on
12:16 PM _unreal_: now that its cleaned up and ground I just have to cut them to the right size
12:16 PM _unreal_: after I solve my exact sizes I want
12:23 PM _unreal_: second opinion? I'm looking at an EBAY deal? SBR20 2x sbr20 rails at 800mm long, and 4x SBR20UU cars for $64 shipping included?
12:23 PM _unreal_: does that sound reasonable or sketchy? ships from USA
12:24 PM Bleepshop: unterhausen: Maybe they painted it pink and drew big anime eyes on it? ;D
12:24 PM _unreal_: ? I dont know much of anything about SBR rails but I'm thinking they are the best choice for this new cnc build for the Y axis
12:25 PM _unreal_: any insight would be helpful
12:25 PM _unreal_: My machine is going to have a working area of about 25x25"
12:25 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: My personal CNC is SBR and the big one at work is SBR with air-bearings.
12:26 PM _unreal_: What I'm wondering is does the price they are asking sound good or sketchy?
12:26 PM _unreal_: they should be what I need for load
12:26 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Scales are 48"x48X for mine and 121"x61" at work.
12:26 PM _unreal_: what size bearings?
12:27 PM _unreal_: I'm looking at the SBR20
12:27 PM Bleepshop: Hang on and I'll grab a caliper.
12:28 PM _unreal_: 800and my machine will be HALF yours for work area
12:28 PM _unreal_: its funny this new machine is just a little larger then the footprint of my current home cnc machine. but my current machine has a work area of 7.75"x12.75"
12:29 PM _unreal_: the new machine will have the large square tube for the base. VERY lite but strong. all steel
12:29 PM _unreal_: with prob MDF for the bottom side base and mdf for the top side first deck layer
12:30 PM _unreal_: I'll "hate to do it" but I'm going to burry the motion control inside the working body
12:30 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: OK. Table has a 23mm down each side and there's a single 69mm spanning the gantry.
12:31 PM _unreal_: ?
12:31 PM Bleepshop: That's the width of the rail faces.
12:31 PM Bleepshop: Not sure how these get measured really. LOL
12:31 PM _unreal_: So the Y axis has 70mm DIAM rails and the x axis is prob sbr20 ish?
12:32 PM _unreal_: and single rail? you would have to have two SBR for any axis
12:33 PM Bleepshop: D'Oh! You're looking at rods not rails.
12:33 PM _unreal_: I'm just trying to figure out if this EBAY deal is worth it or not
12:33 PM _unreal_: and that rail is right for my machine build
12:34 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Sorry, I've got square/flat rails like this. https://www.amazon.com/TEN-HIGH-HSR15CR-1500mm-Linear-HSR15CR-Bearing/dp/B00W9A97FI
12:34 PM _unreal_: my machine will have Steel Y arms that are about 16-18" tall I forget I'd have to measure. and about 6-8" side
12:34 PM _unreal_: ya those are not SBR
12:34 PM _unreal_: I'd like to use something like those but they are sooooo expensive for the sizes I need
12:35 PM _unreal_: hum maybe I'll make the machine 31" long they sell at 800m from this source....
12:37 PM Bleepshop: I've got the HSR25CR version and what would probably translate as an HSR70CR for their numbering scheme.
12:38 PM Bleepshop: And the Z looks like paired 20s
12:39 PM _unreal_: I mainly want the SBR type because they are taller. I can "tuck" the rail under the edge flange of the DECK of the cnc. That will protect it from particles greatly
12:48 PM Alicrow-phone: Getting closer and closer to having this thing running.
12:49 PM _unreal_: ve7it, relay is now working, so now I can lock out the entire PSU to the new build.
12:57 PM Bleepshop: unterhausen: That's grad students for you. LOL
12:59 PM Bleepshop: I' will admit that I have been tempted to cover an entire car in googly eyes just to film it being driven down a bad road for a few miles. xD
01:02 PM Bleepshop: Alicrow-phone: You can build a rotary phase perverter with a pair of 3 phase motors and a shaft coupler. You can also get a snarky visit from the power company if you forget that it draws ~130A to make 40A output and the breakers for the neighborhood keep popping. LOL
01:09 PM Alicrow-phone: Or you can just order one from American Rotary like we did.
01:10 PM _unreal_: so does anyone know much about SBR rails?
01:10 PM perry_j1987: supported rails?
01:11 PM _unreal_: I just dont know much about them
01:11 PM _unreal_: that kind
01:12 PM _unreal_: A: i'm looking at a set of 2 SBR20's 800mm with 4 sbr20uu cars, for $65 including shipping from ebay.
01:12 PM _unreal_: dont know if thats a a good price or a sketchy ehhhh.... or just a STEAL
01:16 PM XXCoder: _unreal_: make sure to know side force limits on SBRs
01:16 PM XXCoder: it ranges from 100% (down into supports) down to 10% or so (upwards and away from rail supports)
01:16 PM XXCoder: design according
01:16 PM _unreal_: I'm using SBR's for the Y axis
01:17 PM _unreal_: frig let me grab a messurment one sec
01:19 PM _unreal_: ok so the Y axis vertical arms are 8x14"
01:19 PM _unreal_: 3/8" steel
01:20 PM _unreal_: and VERY true. they are machined true and painted. because they came out of sat dishes
01:29 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, ?
01:29 PM XXCoder: SBR have how much force limits that change depending on what direction force is at
01:29 PM _unreal_: the cars will be spaced about 6" on center per side of the Y
01:30 PM XXCoder: probably not a major worry
01:30 PM XXCoder: just need in mind
01:31 PM _unreal_: I'm super rigidizing way above and over on the Y arms and the X cross bars
01:32 PM _unreal_: so it should be really good
01:33 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: You're going to mount them flat like this ? https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/718EN19KOnL._SL1500_.jpg
01:34 PM _unreal_: what the hell? I just got a weather pop up alert for FROST
01:34 PM Bleepshop: Or are you going to rotate them 90 and bolt them to the edges of the table?
01:34 PM _unreal_: I'm in south freaking florida
01:35 PM _unreal_: Bleepshop, from that photo 90 degrees
01:35 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Yeah, it happens. It's why the price of orange juice spikes every few years. LOL
01:36 PM _unreal_: the rail mounts will be going into the side of the square tubing
01:36 PM _unreal_: so if you were to look at the END of the rail. the rail will be on the left/right and the car will be on the other side
01:36 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: OK. Those SBRs are only rated for full load in a couple of directions so check the specs.
01:36 PM _unreal_: which I believe drops the "loading" down to 50%
01:37 PM _unreal_: ya again I'm not too worried, they are higher spec then what i'm using on my current cnc machine and I have no issues milling aluminum
01:37 PM _unreal_: and those bearings are MUCH closer
01:37 PM Bleepshop: I'd derate it to 25%. Craptonium from feebay.
01:37 PM _unreal_: the bearings in the new machine are going to be spread out a lot more
01:38 PM _unreal_: I am expecting to have to wash the blocks and assuming they will be full of chips
01:38 PM Bleepshop: Add an extra car ro the track and that'll help make sure.
01:38 PM _unreal_: not to worried
01:38 PM _unreal_: and that would be very over kill
01:39 PM XXCoder: if I recall right, his machine is quite small
01:39 PM _unreal_: this is not a machine for milling steel, its for milling wood, HDPE, and aluminum would be the hardest material I'd ever deal with
01:39 PM _unreal_: which is what I do with my current machine.
01:40 PM _unreal_: and its CONSTRUCTION specs are much lower
01:40 PM _unreal_: then again its made of 90% fiberglass plates
01:40 PM _unreal_: and the base is all wood 2x6's
01:41 PM _unreal_: my current machine the bearings on the Y axis are 3" apart per side of the axis
01:41 PM _unreal_: hehe
01:41 PM _unreal_: and single BALL bearings at that
01:42 PM _unreal_: mounted with single 5/16 bolts
01:59 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that you're in the <1000mm category. And that i learned 'engineering overkill' from reading Asimov and watching Scotty on Star Trek. LOL
02:01 PM roycroft: scotty was more into overestimating than actual overkill
02:02 PM roycroft: his standard formula was to overestimate all aspects of a problem by a factor of three
02:02 PM roycroft: then take his time
02:03 PM roycroft: and come in at 1/2 the original estimate
02:03 PM roycroft: and be the hero every time
02:04 PM XXCoder: gerogi had big issue with that lol
02:05 PM XXCoder: scotty: "so what was really what you needed" georgi: "what i told picard is what I needed" and bit arguing on that heh
02:06 PM roycroft: geordi was a young whippersnapper
02:07 PM roycroft: i have a much lighter and easier to build gantry now
02:08 PM Deejay: gn8
02:08 PM XXCoder: yeah?
02:14 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/CNC-Router/Full-Assembly-Preliminary-2.jpeg
02:18 PM XXCoder: nice
02:18 PM XXCoder: definitely simpler
02:18 PM roycroft: yes, and i'm sure it will be plenty strong
02:18 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: 1.5KW or 2.2KW ?
02:20 PM roycroft: i'm ready to tackle refining the z axis now, but i have to decide what to do about the dust shoe first
02:22 PM roycroft: having the dust shoe independent of the spindle is a requirement - on that i'm clear
02:22 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Here you go. Saw this the other day and was looking at it myself. LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF8U8nd5oSM
02:22 PM roycroft: but the more i think about it, the more it makes sense to just have it be really simple, and manually adjusted
02:23 PM roycroft: i've seen that video
02:23 PM roycroft: it's ambitious of marius
02:24 PM roycroft: i'm actually more concernec about the real estate that a mechanised dust shoe lift would require than the expense and complexity of the build
02:24 PM roycroft: i need to keep the x axis as narrow as possible
02:25 PM roycroft: and still get my desired machining footprint
02:26 PM Bleepshop: I was thinking a lot simpler control. Spindle fires up and a valve feeds ~3psi air to a counter-sprung cylinder controlling the brush. the brush will 'float' as the regulator deals with presure changes.
02:26 PM roycroft: i'm not going to be doing any 3d routing with this machine - it will mostly be flat stock
02:26 PM roycroft: so i could adjust the shoe at the beginning of the job for most jobs and leave it set for the entire job
02:26 PM roycroft: i've thought about a floating dust shoe as well, but much simpler than you describe
02:27 PM roycroft: basically a flexible hose with a spring
02:28 PM roycroft: anyway, i have some carboys to finish cleaning, and i'll ponder the dust shoe dilema while attending to that chore
02:33 PM Bleepshop: My other thought involved 2" strip brush and 4 tiny 90degree gearboxes so they rotate out and up out of the way with an enclosure coverng 80% of the Z to fit a 5" flex hose.
02:34 PM * Bleepshop wants to carve blueboard and not have to deal with a static enhanced mess.
02:36 PM Loetmichel: re from visiting sister in the hospital. MAN am i stupid. Drove to the wrong hospital because i trusted her friend "she'll be back at reha at wednesday"... apparently not. Wanted to be with her at 15:00, took until 17:30 to get to the right hospital... which has visinting hours until 18:00 :(
02:37 PM XXCoder: :(
02:37 PM XXCoder: roycroft: plan on using MGN rails, thin ones for dust shoe?
02:40 PM Bleepshop: I've got a bunch of 6mm/8mm polished rod and bronze bushings to play with for mine. Scrap a couple of commercial copier/printer combos and you could have a pile of it too. Plus some steppers and maybe other random motors.
02:45 PM roycroft: possibly, possibly not
02:46 PM roycroft: if i make it manual adjust it will probably be something really simple like a couple pieces of t-track and some toilet bolts
02:46 PM roycroft: because there would be no need for anything more
02:49 PM roycroft: bleepshop: i am in the business of making parts - marius hornberger is in the business of acquiring clicks
02:49 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Subtitute a couple of bits of track lighting with the conductors stripped out and you've got some proper 'Eugene OR Engineering". LOL
02:50 PM roycroft: i have plent of t-track offcuts already
02:50 PM Bleepshop: Braggart! xD
02:52 PM Bleepshop: I've been buying every bit of old extrusion with a potentally usefull shape I can fing and afford for a few years. One of these days I'll get around to firing up a smelter and converting the useless shapes and random castings into ingots for later recasting.
03:05 PM _unreal_: Bleepshop, thats the point I am over killing it
03:06 PM _unreal_: well time to take off, got to do some shopping. My daughter needs to do a DNA project with toothpicks and marshmallows
03:06 PM _unreal_: sig
03:06 PM _unreal_: sigh
03:06 PM _unreal_: back later
03:08 PM roycroft: delicious nucleotides!
03:11 PM Bleepshop: Don't eat the wrong sequence and mutate yourself. ;D
03:14 PM roycroft: no worries - i'll be careful
03:14 PM roycroft: i'm aware that the world is not ready for an omicroy variant
03:15 PM XXCoder: need to make entire virus sequence in sticks and marshmallows lol
03:16 PM * roycroft just figured out that lunch will cook faster if he turns the cooker on
03:20 PM XXCoder: sage advice, that
04:03 PM unterhausen: I have 3 sd card readers, two are hiding and the one built into my computer apparently isn't hooked up
04:16 PM Bleepshop: unterhausen: And this surprizes you how? ;D
04:17 PM unterhausen: only interesting when I find something on the first try
04:19 PM unterhausen: it's funny what I find when I clean off my desk. But not "haha" funny
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhausen: it's like an archeological dig, with old project strata
04:27 PM JT-Shop: parking brake is adjusted but the last owner must have driven with the pb on so new set of EBC greens are on order
04:30 PM Tom_itx: what vehicle?
04:31 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
04:31 PM JT-Shop: Corvette
04:31 PM Tom_L: ahh
04:32 PM JT-Shop: bad part is the EBC green rotor and pads won't ship until the end of March
04:33 PM Tom_L: not like it's your every day driver...
04:34 PM CloudEvil: unterhausen: 'oh, that project got shelved when it got patented' - that patent has now expired
04:35 PM JT-Shop: if I lived on a paved road it might be my every day driver
04:35 PM JT-Shop: the good news is I got a big check from the plastic factory yesterday!
04:35 PM Tom_L: yay!
04:36 PM CloudEvil: :)
04:36 PM CloudEvil: Is it plastic?
04:36 PM Tom_L: 2022 vette....
04:36 PM JT-Shop: it ain't that big lol
04:36 PM Tom_L: hah
04:36 PM Tom_L: no but it's likely the only thing you'd find on the lot now
04:37 PM JT-Shop: a couple of months ago we saw a car hauler full of corvettes
04:37 PM Tom_L: my bud had a viper for a while when they came out
04:38 PM JT-Shop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Viper_(ZB_I)#/media/File:Dodge_Viper_SRT-10.jpg
04:38 PM JT-Shop: that's a pretty one
04:38 PM JT-Shop: don't care for the strip thou
04:39 PM Tom_L: i actually think his was that color or a deeper blue
04:39 PM Tom_L: no stripe
04:40 PM JT-Shop: damn 8.3L V10 engine
04:40 PM Tom_L: it hauled ass
04:40 PM JT-Shop: I bet
04:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unstable chassis design
04:41 PM Tom_L: now he's just got his track car for speed
04:41 PM * JT-Shop doesn't need to go that fast
04:41 PM Tom_L: i forget what he has now.. he trades em frequently
04:42 PM Tom_L: iirc he's ~70-75 and still goes down the track
04:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or is that the new Viper?
04:42 PM Tom_L: chevelle i think
04:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://dodgecarusa.com/2022-dodge-viper-shelby/
04:43 PM Tom_L: he's having the rear end tubbed over the winter for 24" tires
05:04 PM JT-Shop: what does tubbed over mean?
05:22 PM JT-Shop: must be time to clean my desk off... I can't see it anymore
06:25 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:26 PM _unreal_: man it would be nice if I had firewood. tonight would be amazing for a fire outside but I got nothing
06:26 PM XXCoder: funture is made from wood?
06:26 PM XXCoder: ;)
06:28 PM _unreal_: just picked up some new blades for my portaband as well
06:30 PM _unreal_: so I got the square tube prepped tonight
06:30 PM _unreal_: I may toss it into my van tonight to bring to work tomorrow
06:30 PM _unreal_: I need to cut 4 sections
06:30 PM _unreal_: 2 31.5 and 2 16.75"
06:30 PM _unreal_: and that is the basic base frame.
06:31 PM _unreal_: I'm not sure if I want to use MDF or the other stuff that has the WHITE sides to use as the very base base
06:36 PM roycroft: melamine has a nice surface, but the underlying particle board is usually somewhere between ldf and mdf
06:36 PM _unreal_: the base is a cant really see it main support of the frame
06:36 PM roycroft: but you can compare the specifications of the exact products you're comparing
06:37 PM _unreal_: I dont need super strong. I need durable more then anything
06:37 PM roycroft: i prefer mdf and paint
06:37 PM roycroft: it's stronger, and more easily repaired when it gets dinged/scratched
06:37 PM _unreal_: 4x4 1/8th square tube. that will be bolted to its self in the corners inside with heavy duty angle
06:37 PM roycroft: it's hard to paint melamine
06:37 PM _unreal_: I dont care if it gets dinged cant see it
06:38 PM _unreal_: except for the EDGE reveal
06:38 PM _unreal_: the top will have a bunch of ribs for the first layer/level of DECK
06:39 PM roycroft: oh, i just had the most brilliant idea for my router table
06:39 PM _unreal_: ?
06:40 PM roycroft: i am making a torsion box frame to support the cnc router and the underside router
06:40 PM _unreal_: if its big enough I might even have HDPE that I can use
06:40 PM roycroft: i was going to put a few holes in it so i could use it as an mft table as well
06:40 PM roycroft: i.e. 20mm holes spaced 96mm apart
06:40 PM _unreal_: mft?
06:40 PM roycroft: i have all this wasted space underneath the top anyway
06:41 PM roycroft: a festool modular work surface
06:41 PM _unreal_: hum..
06:41 PM roycroft: what i can do is make the torsion box, which is wasted space, into a vacuum chamber
06:41 PM roycroft: and have a vacuum holddown system for the cnc router
06:42 PM _unreal_: if your going to do a vac hold down. I'd look at an MDF hold down
06:42 PM roycroft: i may just use the vacuum to hold down the spoil board
06:42 PM _unreal_: ?
06:42 PM _unreal_: not a good idea
06:42 PM _unreal_: you cant use screws
06:43 PM _unreal_: or are you talking about using a though material MDF hold down vac
06:43 PM roycroft: vacuum would be a lot easier, as i'll need to install and remove the spoil board almost every time i use the machine
06:44 PM _unreal_: ?
06:44 PM _unreal_: ahhh
06:44 PM roycroft: it will be a conventional router table 90% of the time
06:44 PM _unreal_: I'd find a way around that
06:44 PM roycroft: the spoil board only goes on when it's in cnc mode
06:44 PM _unreal_: having to remove that endless does not make sense
06:44 PM roycroft: not if it has a vacuum hold down
06:45 PM roycroft: it would take seconds to install or remove it
06:45 PM _unreal_: I mean EFFORT
06:45 PM roycroft: and i think i can do it with an mft grid
06:46 PM roycroft: the drawback is that to use it with some bench dog accessories i need access to the underside
06:46 PM _unreal_: what material do you want to mill
06:46 PM roycroft: mostly manufactured sheet goods - mdf and baltic birch plywood
06:46 PM roycroft: maybe some hardboard
06:46 PM _unreal_: so PLY milling
06:46 PM roycroft: i anticipate that those three materials will be 80% of what i do on the machine
06:46 PM roycroft: only one of those materials is plywood
06:48 PM roycroft: https://www.rockler.com/festool-mft-3-multifunction-table-kit-495315
06:48 PM roycroft: that's the festool mft
06:48 PM roycroft: i don't have one and i don't want one
06:48 PM roycroft: but the idea behind it is that there are very precise 20.0mm holes spaced very precisely 96.00mm apart
06:49 PM _unreal_: ya thats PEG based holes
06:49 PM roycroft: you get dogs for the holes to hold things square/whatever
06:49 PM _unreal_: you'll find your self using SET edge guides and rotary clamps a lot more
06:49 PM roycroft: there are heaps of stops/dogs/clamps/etc. that fit the 20mm holes
06:49 PM _unreal_: or clamp downs
06:49 PM roycroft: i made a stanton bench
06:50 PM roycroft: which is basically that grid on a piece of mdf, with threaded inserts to attach some short legs to
06:50 PM roycroft: it sits up about 100mm off a bench top
06:50 PM roycroft: and you can do all the mft functions with it
06:51 PM roycroft: i have an mft adapter for my incra jig, and i was planning on doing an mft hole grid on the new router table anyway so i could use it for whatever might come in handy
06:51 PM roycroft: it can be a nice assembly table if i have those really square holes
06:52 PM roycroft: but i think now i'm going to figure out how to also make it a vacuum hold down
06:52 PM _unreal_: vacuum hold down is 90% IDEAL for ply work
06:52 PM roycroft: i may do two different vacuum hold down systems in the end
06:53 PM _unreal_: if its not 20x20"+ ply most vac hold downs dont do well
06:53 PM roycroft: or make one that holds down the spoil board and also passes through the spoil board to hold down the work as well
06:53 PM _unreal_: the through MDF style vacuum table setup draws through MDF
06:53 PM _unreal_: and does a really good job
06:53 PM roycroft: yeah, and i don't know if i want to do it that way
06:54 PM _unreal_: those kind you can NIC the MDF board and you dont loose vacuum
06:54 PM roycroft: my concern is masking off the part of the spoil board that i'm not using
06:55 PM roycroft: but that might be easy to do
06:55 PM _unreal_: the "open hole" kind of vacuum the moment you cut though the material you loose your vac hold down
06:55 PM _unreal_: the MDF system you dont have to mask anything off really
06:55 PM roycroft: since i just had this idea 10 minutes ago i've done no further research on the topic, and am relying on background knowledge right now
06:58 PM _unreal_: its called bleed through vacuum hold down
06:59 PM _unreal_: so you have a vacuum table surface that has ZONES under your waste board. the idea is not not hit your waste board much.
07:00 PM _unreal_: the idea is to NOT cut hit nick your wasteboard much
07:00 PM _unreal_: the vacuum bleeds though MDF board
07:00 PM _unreal_: the MDF waste board
07:01 PM _unreal_: so there are no major open holes no high volume air flow, and little if any DUST ingestion into the vacuum system.
07:03 PM _unreal_: the reason I ask what you are planning on doing with your machine is, well because you have a choice of, 3 major hold downs, glue "masking tape to surfaces and fast set glue", hold downs "clamps of what ever type/sort", or vacuum "exposed zone" or BLEED through vacuum.
07:03 PM _unreal_: if your using hold downs, then you may want T slots
07:03 PM _unreal_: t slots dont work well with vacuum
07:03 PM _unreal_: how big is your work area again?
07:04 PM roycroft: 2'x4'
07:04 PM _unreal_: thats your cnc work area
07:04 PM roycroft: yes
07:04 PM roycroft: x and y will be able to travel beyond that
07:04 PM _unreal_: how big are the things on average your going to TOOL
07:04 PM _unreal_: meaning what is the size of parts to be removed
07:05 PM roycroft: but i want to be able to put a 2'x4' part on the router and be able to machine all of it
07:05 PM roycroft: i don't know that there will be an average size part
07:05 PM roycroft: there will be some very small ones
07:05 PM _unreal_: mine will be 2'x2'
07:05 PM roycroft: and there will be some that will be too big for the machine to do in one go
07:06 PM _unreal_: what I'm getting at. that work area is big enough for ether a vac setup. or a hold down setup.
07:06 PM roycroft: and i'll probably end up using both
07:06 PM roycroft: depending on what i'm doing
07:06 PM _unreal_: its a balance act, between needing to CLAMP, vs being able to glue, or if vacuum will work
07:07 PM _unreal_: if you had a 4x8 table I'd suggest make 2 or 4 zones
07:07 PM _unreal_: 2x4 is kind of small for vacuum if you are thinking of dividing
07:08 PM _unreal_: do able but still....
07:08 PM roycroft: the reason this is all interesting right now is because i'm about to start refining my z axis design, and i want to know exactly how high off the table top i'll need to be for the tooling to contact the spoil board
07:09 PM _unreal_: and bleed vacuum would be good for the large work area, but it may not have enough volume to work well if you divide a 2x4 table
07:09 PM _unreal_: dont forget, you can re-surface the spoil board a few times depending on how its used
07:10 PM roycroft: another consideration for me is that i was thinking about using melamine for the spoil boards, as it's cheaper than mdf and should work just as well
07:10 PM roycroft: but it's not permeable like mdf, so i would not be able to use a through vacuum system if i did that
07:10 PM _unreal_: you still have to do a surfacing leveling pass
07:10 PM roycroft: of course
07:10 PM _unreal_: and that will burn off areas of the surfacing
07:10 PM roycroft: but that would not be on the vacuum side
07:10 PM _unreal_: not that its bad... but
07:11 PM roycroft: anyway, i think i can work with a single layer on top of the table for the spoil board, so 3/4" above the table top
07:11 PM roycroft: that's what i need to work on the z
07:12 PM _unreal_: melamine kind of deteriorates when you start milling the surface away
07:12 PM _unreal_: I would consider to
07:12 PM _unreal_: two
07:13 PM _unreal_: one as a "clamping" surface to mount the waste board too
07:13 PM roycroft: i could do that
07:13 PM _unreal_: which means it will become a tooling job in the future
07:13 PM roycroft: actually that would work nicely
07:13 PM roycroft: but it would add another 1/2"-3/4"
07:13 PM _unreal_: the waste board would have its own gcode for preping creating
07:13 PM _unreal_: and the "base" board you can have embeded nut inserts in the bottom
07:14 PM _unreal_: flip it over so the nuts are on the under side and glued in
07:15 PM _unreal_: now all you have to do is a "prep" job for the waste board. to mill all of the mounting holes. clean it up "DUST" align it and pop your screws in
07:15 PM _unreal_: all of your screws will need to be counter sunk down 25-50% depth
07:16 PM _unreal_: enough so you can re-surface the waste board a few times
07:16 PM _unreal_: Thats why I was saying, at your machines size it gets tricky as to what would be the best choice.
07:17 PM _unreal_: and no mater what means you choose you still MUST be able to do a waste board leveling
07:17 PM roycroft: i don't see how i can realistically make a combination mft/vacuum top without making zones
07:18 PM roycroft: waste board leveling will be no problem
07:18 PM _unreal_: so you see what I'm getting at
07:19 PM roycroft: i'm designing the machine so that the spindle will be able to extend beyond the edge of the spoil board more than 1/2 the diamater of the leveling cutter diameter on all four sides
07:19 PM _unreal_: IMO the only way to do that would be to have a HUGE sheet of HDPE lets say 1" thick, MOUNT that to the machines FRAME as the base board
07:19 PM _unreal_: then design a vacuum chambore into the HDPE and screw down mounts etc.....
07:21 PM _unreal_: there may be method I dont know about but that would be the best IMO. the spoil board could then have bold based hold downs setup
07:21 PM _unreal_: there are always options
07:22 PM roycroft: what i need to look into is how much access i'll actually need to the underside of the mft top
07:23 PM roycroft: i can already see how i can accomodate both the access i need and creating the vacuum chamber
07:24 PM roycroft: there are things that, when i attach them to an mft top, they need to be secured with a knob from the underside of the top
07:25 PM roycroft: so i have to be able to easily reach inside to attach those things
07:25 PM roycroft: and several of the mft accessories i already have require securing from underneath, including my incra router jig
07:25 PM _unreal_: like I mentioned, TSLOT hold downs are very popular
07:25 PM roycroft: which may or may not be deprecated
07:26 PM roycroft: yes, but i think i can make a vacuum system that works
07:26 PM _unreal_: you can do tslot channel, you can do bolt array,
07:26 PM _unreal_: glue down with the dbl masking tape method tape to each surface and GLUE between
07:26 PM _unreal_: or vacuum
07:26 PM roycroft: and a vacuum system would mean it takes seconds to install or remove the spoil board
07:26 PM roycroft: vs minutes (perhaps many) with any other method
07:26 PM _unreal_: if you plan to mill anything HARD. forget vacuum. you need to clamp
07:27 PM _unreal_: palm tof ace
07:27 PM roycroft: clamping would always be an option
07:27 PM Tom_L: experience is the best teacher
07:27 PM _unreal_: IF you remove the spoil board. when you put it back on. the chances of it being 100% true and level are zero
07:27 PM roycroft: i'll have a grid of 20mm holes drilled through the top every 96mm apart
07:27 PM _unreal_: ESPECIALLY if your going to remove and re-install often
07:28 PM roycroft: i can rig up something for claps easily with that setup
07:28 PM roycroft: yes, tom_l
07:28 PM roycroft: and building machines for me is an iterative process
07:29 PM roycroft: i'm still using the rough mock-up of my "ultimate" router table that i designed about 10 years ago
07:29 PM roycroft: the instant i finished the mock-up i started making changes beyond finishing the design
07:29 PM roycroft: the more i use the table the more i want to make minor tweaks
07:39 PM _unreal_: with that my Y rails for the new machine have been ordered
07:41 PM roycroft: i am almost decided to built a manually adjustable shoe, and forego the idea of having the dust shoe height controlled by linuxcnc
07:42 PM Tom_L: sounds like a plan
07:46 PM _unreal_: roycroft, as I said set it up so you can link it to the z or be FREE
07:46 PM _unreal_: simple slide bolt like setup
07:48 PM roycroft: i could probably do that, but i don't think i would ever want the dust shoe to follow the spindle height
07:48 PM roycroft: not on a machine like this
07:49 PM _unreal_: ahh
07:49 PM _unreal_: depends on what your doing
07:50 PM _unreal_: my dust shoe follows. I wish I could choose between follow and not follow but I didnt design that feature in
07:50 PM roycroft: as i've said, probably 80% or 90% will be making jigs/templates out of baltic birch ply, mdf, or hardboard
07:50 PM roycroft: being independent of the spindle is essential
07:51 PM roycroft: but being able to be machine adjusted, or floating, not so much
07:52 PM _unreal_: I just noticed I had the FAN running. BURRRR
07:52 PM _unreal_: we got a FROST advisory
07:52 PM Tom_L: haha
07:52 PM _unreal_: we dont have any kind of heating in the house
07:52 PM Tom_L: kindof unheard of down there ehh?
07:52 PM _unreal_: well the AC does have a "heating" system but its STUPID expensive
07:53 PM _unreal_: running the AC is like 1/3 the cost of running the HEAT feature. just uses big heating elements like a dryer....
07:53 PM _unreal_: and they are always a FIRE risk
07:54 PM _unreal_: because they build DUST up on the coils. they only get used 2-5 times at MOST ever in the dead of winter.
07:55 PM _unreal_: never fails first run blows smoke
07:56 PM CloudEvil: All for the want of one valve.
07:56 PM _unreal_: ?
07:56 PM CloudEvil: (four port valve to swap the direction of the heatpump)
08:09 PM roycroft: but is it white smoke or black smoke?
09:17 PM _unreal_: KC won
09:17 PM _unreal_: what an upset
09:18 PM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, did you get your new bearing setup intsalled?
09:21 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah
09:23 PM _unreal_: so.....
09:25 PM t4nk_freenode: hehe.. you didn't bother to read last time .. it was all there ;)
09:25 PM t4nk_freenode: looks good
09:25 PM _unreal_: or I was not around
09:26 PM t4nk_freenode: nope, you were right here, and asked me about it, staight in the middle of my story ;)
09:26 PM t4nk_freenode: reading/ writing is not your forté
09:26 PM t4nk_freenode: anhyhow man
09:26 PM t4nk_freenode: like I said.. it's a great improvement
09:27 PM t4nk_freenode: backlash is gone
09:27 PM t4nk_freenode: but I haven't done much with it since
09:27 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm getting a new supply of v-bits later today
09:28 PM _unreal_: I've started ordering parts for the new build and I just finished cutting up the PIA part of the build
09:28 PM _unreal_: for my new machine
09:28 PM t4nk_freenode: so hopefully I'll be having another go at milling a pcb later on
09:28 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm still not sure on what to buy
09:29 PM _unreal_: ?
09:29 PM _unreal_: buying what?
09:29 PM t4nk_freenode: rails... extrusion
09:30 PM t4nk_freenode: I wanna go for 1m² work area.. or rather.. order 1m rails/extrusion
09:30 PM _unreal_: I purchased both
09:30 PM _unreal_: just got 1000mm extrusion
09:30 PM _unreal_: and rails
09:31 PM _unreal_: but remember if you get into the larger ranges, then you need to UP your motors and everthing
09:31 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah, I'm afraid so
09:33 PM _unreal_: hence I have lots of options
09:33 PM _unreal_: but the brushed servo is my "desire" for this build
09:34 PM _unreal_: freaking hell yep my left foot big toe nail is blue
09:35 PM t4nk_freenode: so how many of those c beams did you buy? will they be on all axes?
09:35 PM _unreal_: they are for the X axis only
09:36 PM _unreal_: the z will be all solid plate
09:36 PM t4nk_freenode: and what about the y?
09:38 PM _unreal_: the new machine I'm building, the base IS BASED on 4"x4" square tub
09:38 PM t4nk_freenode: why would you do that
09:39 PM _unreal_: because its what I have on hand and dont have to purchase
09:39 PM t4nk_freenode: why not extrusion
09:39 PM t4nk_freenode: and then? bearings on the tubes?
09:40 PM _unreal_: I'm mounting SBR rails to the Y
09:40 PM t4nk_freenode: ah, that's right
09:40 PM _unreal_: x I'm not sure which kind of rails I'll go with
09:41 PM t4nk_freenode: I might buy the c beams, try wheels at first, and mount rails if I don't like it
09:41 PM _unreal_: pick one and go with it
09:41 PM _unreal_: its not worth going with one design then changing to an entirly new design methoed
10:39 PM Bleepshop: Has anybody here used an AS5600 rotary position encoder? https://ams.com/en/AS5600
10:43 PM Bleepshop: I've got 4:1 belt reduction between my steppers and the racks and one of those mounted over the end of the stepper shaft would give me a ridiculous level of positional accuracy.
10:46 PM Tom_L: only as good as the steppers can step
10:47 PM Bleepshop: 200steps/rev.
10:51 PM Bleepshop: That's the ancient Pacific Scientific steppers rating. With 200 - 25,000 step/rev available from the DM542A driver packs according to their specs.
10:54 PM Lcvette[m]: What accuracy do you need?
11:04 PM Bleepshop: Eough to go from open-loop to closed-loop on the control side. I want to know commanded position, actual position and distance to go.
11:07 PM unterhausen: found a memory card reader, lost the card
11:08 PM unterhausen: fortunately when I was cleaning up, i found another
11:12 PM Bleepshop: I'm tempted to grab a few of the 0.56" or bigger 6-digit, 7-segment LED arrays and build a real DRO panel to hang on the back of the machine.
11:13 PM Bleepshop: unterhausen: So... Now you'll step on the card or a cat trying to avoid stepping on the card at 03:00 when you're half asleep? ;D
11:14 PM unterhausen: only dogs here
11:15 PM unterhausen: you can tell when the linux is installed on the sd card because windows offers to format it
11:18 PM Bleepshop: unterhausen: So, '/s/cat/dog toy/' ;D
11:19 PM Bleepshop: SQUEEEEEEK! LOL