#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 16 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:59 AM Deejay: moin
05:24 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:35 AM Tom_L: morning
05:44 AM Tom_L: 19°F & fog
06:27 AM JT-Cave: 27°F and I ain't looked outside yet
06:32 AM XXCoder: fog
08:23 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, https://gnipsel.com/rpi/install-11L.html
08:38 AM JT-Shop: crispy outside this morning
09:11 AM Tom_L: is that a new version of asciidoc?
09:12 AM Tom_L: don't recall the 'paragraph' tabs
09:12 AM Tom_L: (for lack of a better description)
09:13 AM JT-Cave: hmm wonder why the formatting is not showing up...
09:14 AM JT-Cave: sphinx
09:15 AM Tom_L: can you add a link to that from https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/ under rpi?
09:15 AM Tom_L: i'll never remember where it is otherwise :)
09:15 AM JT-Cave: yea
09:17 AM JT-Cave: https://imagebin.ca/v/6TlySjQtj8U5
09:17 AM JT-Cave: does it look like that?
09:17 AM Tom_L: yes
09:19 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/rpi.jpg
09:20 AM JT-Cave: that looks correct what do you mean by 'paragraph' tabs?
09:21 AM Tom_L: beside the descriptions you hover over it and you get a paragraph symbol (i think that's what it is anyway)
09:21 AM Tom_L: it's a link
09:21 AM Tom_L: to the page
09:21 AM Tom_L: moves it to the top
09:21 AM JT-Cave: weird the paragraph symbol for a link
09:22 AM Tom_L: i'd just never noticed it before
09:22 AM JT-Cave: never saw that before
09:22 AM Tom_L: that's why i wondered it it was a new version of asciidoc
09:23 AM Tom_L: it/if
09:25 AM Tom_L: maybe add CR to the box under SSH from another Linux PC
09:25 AM Tom_L: under ifconfig
09:26 AM Tom_L: or does that all show on a single line in the rpi file? the config does
09:30 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, the other pages show that too but it's a "oo" chain link
09:35 AM Tom_L: Reboot Yes should be logged in after boot.
09:36 AM Tom_L: typo? Yes/You
09:48 AM JT-Cave: prob different style one is read the docs and the rpi page is classic like you see on python docs
09:49 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/images/wood-working/tormek/tormek-01.jpg
09:59 AM Tom_L: nice
09:59 AM JT-Cave: the symbol is in the html file that got created
09:59 AM JT-Cave: I had to shorten it 2" so I could rough grind the wings all the way back
10:00 AM JT-Cave: it's a roughing setup, all the gouges that came with the lathe were hand sharpened and are quite a mess
10:01 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/rpi/install-11L.html
10:01 AM JT-Cave: take another look
10:01 AM Tom_L: yeah, you missed the top one but better
10:02 AM Tom_L: at least now you know what it's for :)
10:02 AM JT-Cave: I might have to write my own style for sphinx
10:03 AM * JT-Cave wanders off to the shop to stoke the fires
10:35 AM _unreal_: hello
10:36 AM _unreal_: ve7it, so I just did my first "power" tests with one of the servos
10:36 AM _unreal_: getting odd results
10:36 AM _unreal_: one motor controller, the one that had the SHORT. the AMP is clearly f'ed up
10:37 AM _unreal_: it Pulses with power but its very weak. It gives fractional power not enough to turn and there is a digital hum in the motor. very quiet
10:39 AM _unreal_: ve7it, the other servos all seem to function a little more "normal" ??
10:40 AM _unreal_: I've only plugged the one motor in WITH the encoder too a few of the other motor controllers and no matter the combo with the encoder the motor is just pulsing
10:40 AM _unreal_: I have not gotten a serial terminal connection yet
10:40 AM _unreal_: have not found time nor gotten the right setup working for that matter. I'm also not sure what computer I used before?
10:41 AM _unreal_: ve7it, the other thing I find odd.....
10:42 AM _unreal_: one motor controller. if I plug the 100watt motor in to it. that motor just pulses and the light starts to flash as the motor pulses with or with out the encoder and any combo.
10:42 AM _unreal_: if I plug the other "real" servo into that same motor controller. it just spins
10:42 AM _unreal_: and no flashing light on the servo control board
10:42 AM _unreal_: I really need to get logged into these motor controllers
10:43 AM _unreal_: regardless I'll be back later maybe? its my daughters birthday today. She's 13 and I need to go do some " shopping real quick " have not done any
10:43 AM _unreal_: :/
10:44 AM ve7it: _unreal_, wish her happy BD
10:49 AM _unreal_: ve7it, what are the motors suposed to do on first power up with out going into the console
10:49 AM _unreal_: what function should I be expecting?
10:50 AM Tom_L: they shouldn't do anything until commanded to
10:51 AM _unreal_: ve7it, also there seems to be a good chance any/every DSPIC controller that I had wired up before that blew the encoders on two of the motors could have back fed into those inputs on the DSPIS
10:51 AM _unreal_: DSPICS :/
10:51 AM _unreal_: So they may them selves be f'ed up
10:52 AM _unreal_: problem is I just dont know which one(s) ever got put through the setup tests before
10:52 AM _unreal_: oh well off to go do some kido birthday shopping.
10:53 AM CloudEvil: As a general point, I've gotten into the habit of always putting 10K resistors in series with inputs, where possible.
10:54 AM CloudEvil: It _massively_ improves 'oops-resistance'.
12:57 PM unterhaus_: disassembling a linear bearing carriage in a plastic bag is a great idea. Wish I had thought of it
12:58 PM t4nk_freenode: hehe
12:59 PM t4nk_freenode: I have this tiny metal ball on my desk, got No idea how it got there or where it came from
12:59 PM t4nk_freenode: looks like from a bearing too
01:04 PM unterhaus_: I had a carriage in a plastic container for years. Couldn't figure out how to get it back together so I pitched it. Now there are utubes about reassembling them
01:04 PM Tom_L: ballscrews are a little more difficult
01:06 PM unterhaus_: client wants me to put some bearings back in a linear bearing. Google is failing me on this one
01:07 PM unterhaus_: only doing it for the extra frustration I don't need right now
01:10 PM unterhaus_: found a video, I might be able to do what they did
01:15 PM Loetmichel: re from visiting my sisters in the hospital... MAN i shouldnt cut it THAT close... filled 62 liters E10 into that 58 liters tank... last 29 kilometers of Autobahn was "ohoh, i hope thats still enough..." while the tank needle was already on its "empty" rest... :)
01:35 PM Bleepshop: Loetmichel: That's OK. My fuel gauge responds to the pedal pressure as well as the fuel level. I watched my guage drop to 1/4 tank on the freeway yesterday and then bounce back to almost 1/2 tank after I'd been cruising with low burn rates for a while.
01:36 PM Bleepshop: Floor the gas going up a hill and floor the clutch going down the other side. LOL
01:44 PM Tom_L: tells us a bit about your driving habits ehh?
01:58 PM ve7it: _unreal_, I dont remember power up action.. they should read the encoder and hold that position.. that may be the slight buzz you hear since you havent set any params up and it will be using a default pid setup
01:59 PM ve7it: if no encoder.. they may take off until the loop error disables them
02:11 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, bike rack problem solved I just came home with one of these https://hollywoodracks.com/collections/bike-rack-hitch/products/sport-rider-2-bike-hitch-rack FREE but slightly bent in a couple spots
02:55 PM Alicrow-phone: I'm trying to run PNCConf to set up my new 5i24, but there's no drop down for 5i24. I checked the Internet and found 7 year old forum posts saying there's no option for it and to just hand-edit the config files. Is this really still the case?
03:03 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, took the easy way out ehh?
03:03 PM Tom_L: free is good though :)
03:04 PM Tom_L: is that for the ridgeline?
03:05 PM Tom_L: do those have a 1 1/4 or 2" receiver?
03:05 PM JT-Shop: yep, just need to straighten some slightly bent parts
03:05 PM JT-Shop: 2" but that rack fits both
03:05 PM Tom_L: i bet you know a guy that can fix it
03:05 PM JT-Shop: the Ridgeline can tow 5,000 pounds
03:06 PM Tom_L: the rpi page was a good addition...
03:06 PM JT-Shop: thanks, just gotta remember to put a link on the uspace page in the morning
03:08 PM Tom_L: i made a top for my rack that would hold 4, that one i showed was for 2
03:08 PM unterhaus_: Alicrow-phone can't imagine anyone has added that board. Pick something close, the hand changes should be minimal
03:10 PM Alicrow-phone: 5i23 seems to have the same firmware options, I think.
03:10 PM JT-Shop: 5i23 is completely different
03:11 PM JT-Shop: 5i24 is the same as the 6i24 the very old 5i20, 5i22 and 5i23 are totally different
03:11 PM * JT-Shop wanders down to spoil the chickens a bit
03:12 PM Alicrow-phone: There's no option for 6i24 either
03:16 PM Tom_L: enter it manually
03:17 PM Tom_L: seems it's similar to the 5i25
03:17 PM Tom_L: is there a config option for that one?
03:19 PM Tom_L: just 2x more io
03:20 PM _unreal_: Alicrow-phone, what are you controlling that you need so much I/O
03:22 PM _unreal_: so frustrating... the netbook did a windows update I didnt know about. now its going to be an hour before I can even use my cnc becuase it has to DO what ever.....
03:22 PM _unreal_: its amazing how I keep turning off win updates and it keeps turning back on
03:22 PM Tom_L: so i ask, why are you using windows for that?
03:22 PM _unreal_: linux does not work on that netbook
03:23 PM Alicrow-phone: It's a CNC mill, with servos and encoders. Most of the I/O will be buttons on the panel, which I know you can set up multiplexing for but it just seems easier to have each be its own input.
03:23 PM _unreal_: there is NO built version of linux that works on it
03:23 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, its wild. but the keyboard and touch pad do not work in linux on this lenovo netbook
03:24 PM Alicrow-phone: Oh, and we'll probably have a pendant, or even independent ones for each axis.
03:24 PM _unreal_: and there is no work around
03:24 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, regardless the cnc machine that netbook is driving has a motion controller that its software is win based
03:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: http://www.skyfirecnc.com/products.asp?Page=1 apparently using LCNC and Mesa
03:24 PM _unreal_: planetcnc
03:25 PM _unreal_: GOD I wish I had noticed
03:25 PM _unreal_: I could have "accessed" it hours ago
03:28 PM Alicrow-phone: Also, is the "firmware" drop down just setting defaults for the other fields, or does it actually matter?
03:28 PM Alicrow-phone: Because none of them set options that are compatible with the 7i40s I plan to use.
03:31 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Alicrow-phone: even the boards supported by PNCConf will still need manual editing of the config files
03:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: LCNC has so many options that you need to make manual edits to configs to get everything configured the way you wish
03:33 PM Alicrow-phone: But what do I select for the "firmware" drop down? Does it actually matter, or is it just a starting point?
03:33 PM JT-Shop: I don't think anyone here is familiar with pncconf
03:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i would have to look at those forum posts to see
03:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm not familiar with your board
03:34 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_loading_hostmot2
03:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i use pncconf from time to time and then forget about it
03:35 PM Tom_L: does that board use bitfiles or are they flashed to the card?
03:35 PM JT-Shop: flashed to the card
03:35 PM Tom_L: wasn't sure how old it was
03:36 PM JT-Shop: Alicrow-phone, just pick something that has steppers or servos and create your config then change the card to 5i24 and go from there
03:36 PM Tom_L: so then you wouldn't need the firmware= part of that loadrt line
03:36 PM JT-Shop: 5i24 and 6i24 replace the old 5i20 types
03:36 PM JT-Shop: no
03:37 PM Tom_L: the rest would still apply
03:37 PM Tom_L: you can do a mesaflash -readhmid and find out what you have i think then create your loadrt line from that
03:37 PM pcw-home: Unfortunately pncconf has dropped support for all the older cards like the 5I20
03:38 PM pcw-home: but you could create a config for say a 7I80HD and SV12 firmware whci will setup the basics for PWM/encoder servo control
03:39 PM JT-Shop: Alicrow-phone, I have a 5i24 in stock and could probably create a minimal working configuration
03:39 PM pcw-home: (you would need to change the card name and driver name in the created hal/ini files)
03:39 PM pcw-home: what daughtercards do you have?
03:40 PM Alicrow-phone: Two 7i40, and two 7i42TA breakout boards.
03:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: https://matrix-client.matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/thumbnail/matrix.org/kzfErJoaluLddvjOkSsLNDTk?width=800&height=600&method=scale
03:41 PM pcw-home: OK so SV12 or SVST4_X firmware should be OK
03:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: somebody made a 7i76 to DB breakout http://www.skyfirecnc.com/products.asp?Page=1
03:42 PM JT-Shop: hmm a 5i24 only has 3 50 pin headers...
03:42 PM pcw-home: CaptHindsight I know they messed around a bit with LinuxCNC a while ago
03:43 PM pcw-home: JT-Shop: you can put two 7I40s on one cable
03:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: apparently people are interested in it
03:44 PM pcw-home: Wish I could make more 7I76Es...
03:44 PM JT-Shop: they only use half of the cable?
03:45 PM pcw-home: yes 1/2 each
03:45 PM JT-Shop: cool
03:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: might be the same type of people that would also like an RJ version, they don't like to work with single wires unless they have a connector that just plugs in
03:45 PM pcw-home: (theres a jumper on the 7I40 card to select which half)
03:45 PM JT-Shop: ah that makes sense now
03:47 PM pcw-home: CaptHindsight[m] not sure that terminating a screw terminal plug is that much harder the a DB9 (unless you are using flat cable)
03:48 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: I agree but for some it seems to make a big difference
03:48 PM Alicrow-phone: So 7i80HD with SV12 firmware should be a good starting point?
03:50 PM pcw-home: yes (5i24_size_sv12.bit actual firmware needs to be loaded into the 6I24)
03:50 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: "make more 7I76Es" , mostly due to shortage of Xilinx or just everything in short supply?
03:50 PM pcw-home: Xilinx and almost any power supply chip
03:50 PM Alicrow-phone: Okay, thank you!
03:52 PM pcw-home: just finished layout of our first Non-Xilinx FPGA card
03:52 PM JT-Shop: cool
03:52 PM JT-Shop: are the daughter cards affected by the chip shortage?
03:52 PM pcw-home: Next Protos to see how many silly mistakes I made
03:53 PM pcw-home: some yes (power supply chips mainly but also ucontrollers )
03:53 PM JT-Shop: at least if they are silly you can laugh at them
03:54 PM pcw-home: First 6I24s smoked and had a glowing red crater in the center of the FPGA...
03:55 PM pcw-home: (3.3V --> 1.2V inner plane short)
03:56 PM JT-Shop: wow
03:56 PM pcw-home: on PCIE 3.3V comes from the PC so almost unlimited current
03:58 PM perry_j1987: we were looking back at some of our past circuit designs and curious to see on chip supplies and we cant get some of them now too
03:59 PM perry_j1987: so weird to think there could be a shortage of chips
03:59 PM pcw-home: Its really bad, lots of common chips now have > 1 year lead times
04:06 PM roycroft: the chip shortage was completely predictable
04:06 PM roycroft: the rate at which the shortage grew, not so much
04:10 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: people have been buying dev boards or finished products just get the micro's, they unsolder, and reprogram IF the security bits haven't been set or blown
04:13 PM pcw-home: not surprising since the scalper prices for some chips is higher than many finished products using those chips
04:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.gigadevice.com/products/microcontrollers/gd32/ Chinese stm32 clones, some are mostly compatible with the stm32 pin outs and registers
04:15 PM pcw-home: Yeah, we are using a Chinese FPGA in a new design
04:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: interesting!
04:16 PM pcw-home: not a clone however, a different chip design
04:17 PM perry_j1987: whats causing the shortage
04:18 PM pcw-home: Depends on who you ask...
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: how are the docs?
04:18 PM pcw-home: Not bad (it more of a multinational started with ex Xilinx/Lattice peeps)
04:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: perry_j1987: production issues due to covid and also just plain price gouging
04:19 PM pcw-home: Yeah scalpers buying what evers loose is not helping
04:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: shipping is the other common reason
04:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: pcw-home: which design tools work with them?
04:20 PM pcw-home: They have their own (though these look like mostly open source tools strung together)
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I've seen some that just work with their own, ah ok
04:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hope they work out for you!
04:22 PM pcw-home: yeah no modern US FPGA's are likely available for a year or so so got to do something
04:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'm not a fan but yeah, what else can you do?
04:23 PM pcw-home: They have been responsive in fixing synthesis bugs so that good
04:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: good, that would be frustrating if they did not and you had to debug if design or actual silicon bug
04:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: all those small vendors in Shenzhen are getting rich off this shortage
04:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they already have the backdoors covered for all the OEM's that buy in high volume and resell
04:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: how I was able to get parts at 500K pcs price but at 100 or 1k quan
04:26 PM Alicrow-phone: Okay, I'm confused. I have the original manual for the system, which says the encoders have 200 line counts per revolution of the lead screw, two phases in quadrature. One revolution of the lead screw is .200", and it says electrical resolution is .0005". I plugged 5 TPI and 200 encoder lines per revolution into the axis scale calculator, and it tells me 4000 pulses per inch. For some reason it's hard coded to multiply the lines per revolution by 4
04:26 PM Alicrow-phone: Is it assuming 4 phases? How do I fix it, or do I just tell it there are half as many line counts per revolution?
04:27 PM pcw-home: Lots of grey market types are doing really well... TI has been good about not raising prices but Rochester has been buying TI like mad
04:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Alicrow-phone: look at how quadrature works, let me find you a link
04:28 PM CaptHindsight[m]: yes 4 counts per pulse
04:28 PM pcw-home: 4X is standard for quadrature encoders
04:29 PM pcw-home: so a 200 PPR encoder has 800 counts per turn
04:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Alicrow-phone: https://www.cuidevices.com/blog/what-is-encoder-ppr-cpr-and-lpr
04:29 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.linearmotiontips.com/what-is-quadrature-encoding/
04:30 PM CaptHindsight[m]: lots more if you search for similar
04:32 PM enleth: any fans of large working envelope 3D printers here? https://i.imgur.com/qRwKZ7l.jpg
04:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: enleth: a few years ago one of the sneaker mfg's built a large 3 axis printer, was several meters across
04:38 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://youtu.be/2_Mz8saTcRI?t=94
04:40 PM enleth: well, this here is basically a pellet-fed filament making machine strapped to a robot
04:40 PM enleth: surprisingly, it works
04:40 PM enleth: the robot doesn't care that it weighs 40kg or so
04:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64XESsTfv_4
04:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: better vid ^^
04:41 PM CaptHindsight[m]: enleth: you make it work
04:42 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or get someone that can to help you
04:43 PM CaptHindsight[m]: step 2 is why R&D is too costly or has very low returns for management
04:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they don't understand the difference between people that can do something vs almost do something, they don't want to or can't find people with the skills
04:44 PM CaptHindsight[m]: since an engineer is an engineer :)
04:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or an MBA is an MBA right?
04:46 PM enleth: we're working here with a local preciousplastics.com team, whatever they can't do in their shop they do in ours, and that includes playing with the robot
04:48 PM Alicrow-phone: Thanks for the info. So I think the old (1980s) controller probably just did X2 encoding, and LinuxCNC should be able to do X4 and get twice the resolution from the same encoders.
04:48 PM enleth: the point is mostly education and promotion of recycling and reuse, not making a product (some are still made in the process, though)
04:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there is an Italian machine co that sells a large robot with extruder as a printer
04:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it makes a crude print, that then they secondary machine into the final product
04:55 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's a big 5-axis mill
04:58 PM Alicrow-phone: So it's both additive and subtractive? That's pretty cool.
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Alicrow-phone: yes
05:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: there are similar for laser and metal powder printers
05:19 PM roycroft: well, my hard drives just arrived
05:20 PM roycroft: third time's a charm
05:20 PM roycroft: amazon finally got the order correct
05:24 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 🎉
05:31 PM roycroft: i really need a good cad workstation that doesn't cost $4000
05:32 PM roycroft: running autocad on my macs in a virtual machine is fine
05:32 PM roycroft: running solidworks with assemblies containing hundreds of parts, not so much
05:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the difficulty may be getting a GPU card
05:33 PM * roycroft cruises craigslist
05:33 PM roycroft: it seems to be cpu bound
05:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: people are even selling broken GPU cards on ebay for $500
05:33 PM roycroft: but that may because the framebuffer is pooping out and the main cpu has to help
05:33 PM roycroft: but yeah
05:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this is a really good time to not need anyhting
05:34 PM roycroft: what i need to do is spend $1k on a decent computer, and another $1k on a gpu board
05:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: s/anyhting/anything/
05:34 PM roycroft: it is indeed a good time not to need anything
05:34 PM roycroft: i'm taking a break from the cad work, and checking out what's for sale on cl
05:35 PM roycroft: more than likely i won't find anything interesting, and will go back to doing the cad work with what i have
05:35 PM roycroft: i've found a way to make it more tolerable
05:35 PM roycroft: it's a pain in the butt to do, but it seems to be helping
05:36 PM roycroft: when i'm working on an assembly, i suppress all features/fasteners/etc. that i'm not actively working with
05:36 PM roycroft: that speeds things up a lot, but it takes a long time to suppress things and unsuppress them later
05:37 PM roycroft: what i really need is a dedicated machine for the cad stuff, with 8 or more cores @3GHz or faster, 32GB of ram, and a good gpu
05:44 PM Tom_L: you building an airplane or such????
05:44 PM Tom_L: shouldn't be that slow..
05:44 PM roycroft: just a cnc router
05:45 PM roycroft: it started getting really slow when i added an 80/20 extrusion
05:45 PM CaptHindsight[m]: well it's windows, so if you get some crapware on it or even just leave it alone it gets slower over time
05:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: where did you get the file for the 80/20?
05:46 PM roycroft: from an 8020.net site
05:46 PM CaptHindsight[m]: that is really suspicious
05:47 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i have tons of designs with t-slot and it runs zippy
05:47 PM roycroft: https://8020.net/downloads/index/designfiles/
05:47 PM roycroft: from their main site, it seems
05:47 PM roycroft: i'm running in a vm on my imac
05:47 PM enleth: CaptHindsight[m]: I'd be delighted to get my hands on a 2kW fiber laser to mount on the robot in a similar way, but those things are crazy expensive even used, even very old, obsolete units
05:47 PM roycroft: which doesn't have good graphics support in the first place
05:48 PM roycroft: i also have a 5k and 2 4k displays on the imac
05:48 PM roycroft: the gpu is pretty busy just keeping up with running the displays
05:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: never had the problem on real hardware unless it was malware
05:49 PM roycroft: and i can only dedicate 12GB of ram and 2 cores to the VM
05:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hope you sort it out
05:49 PM Tom_L: underwater volcano captured from a satelite: https://www.space.com/tonga-underwater-volcano-stunning-eruption-from-space-video
05:49 PM roycroft: yeah, that was some impressive video
05:50 PM roycroft: and good timing that the satellite was watching as it happened
05:50 PM roycroft: i wonder what military movements we or some other country are monitoring near tonga :)
05:50 PM roycroft: capthindsight: it wasn't zippy before i loaded the extrusion
05:51 PM roycroft: but it's way slower since i did
05:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i never ran CAD in VM's
05:51 PM roycroft: the smart fasteners really slow things down
05:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: seems like just asking for trouble
05:51 PM roycroft: but i think it's useful to model the fasteners along with the rest of the parts
05:52 PM Tom_L: makes it too slow
05:52 PM roycroft: i should be able to spit out a bom at the end of end, which will make it a lot easier to get enough of the correct hardware
05:52 PM Alicrow-phone: Ran pncconf again to modify the config and add spindle. Checked off some options at the beginning to show more/advanced options during config, and this time it actually let me run something to detect what kind of card I have so now it has the right card info.
05:52 PM Tom_L: you might get the bom middle of next week...
05:53 PM roycroft: well what i'm doing is adding them, then suppressing them while i continue to work on an assembly
05:53 PM roycroft: when they're suppressed performance is not affected
05:54 PM roycroft: i did not find anything interesting on cl
05:54 PM roycroft: not even overpriced peecees
05:55 PM roycroft: i found what i expected - a lot of macbook pros and macbook airs, most either really old or overpriced, a bunch of mediocre windows laptops, a bunch of ancient peecees that are cheap but useless, and a bunch of overprised "gaming" peecees with mediocre specs but really shiny cases with bling lights and such
05:58 PM Alicrow-phone: Oh, but it messes up the firmware options and doesn't let me actually select to use encoders and stuff.
05:59 PM XXCoder: roycroft: you'd have to do a custom build honestly
05:59 PM XXCoder: get very good gpu and plenty of ram
06:03 PM roycroft: yes, i'd expect to have to get a new gpu
06:03 PM roycroft: and most machines don't come with enough ram
06:03 PM roycroft: i need to go to a market that's near the goodwill computer store
06:03 PM roycroft: i'll pop in and see if they have any decent computers that are upgradable
06:04 PM XXCoder: i checked my pc, its maxed at 16 gb sadly
06:05 PM roycroft: but i'll likely end up not getting a dedicated machine, and just continue to suppress things when my models get complex, and continue to whine about it :)
06:05 PM XXCoder: was thinking I might go for 32 gb ram
06:05 PM roycroft: i just upgraded my imac to 32GB - it had 24GB
06:05 PM roycroft: but i still can't afford to dedicate more than 12GB to a vm
06:05 PM roycroft: well, i could, and i may try that
06:05 PM XXCoder: need another pc so vm part is removed
06:06 PM roycroft: if i closed my web browsers and most of my other apps in macos i could probably go up to 24GB in a vm
06:06 PM roycroft: and maybe that's what i need to do when i'm working with largeish models
06:06 PM roycroft: i could also turn off the two 4k displays and just use the built-in 5k display
06:06 PM XXCoder: can be on same pc, using multiboot system
06:07 PM XXCoder: though have to reboot
06:07 PM XXCoder: use vm for smaller or simpler models
06:07 PM roycroft: actually, that might work out well - i could connect my macbook pro to one of the 4k displays, and use that for email and browsing and the like while i'm doing the solidworks stuff
06:07 PM roycroft: the hypervisor works very well, xxcoder
06:08 PM XXCoder: cool
06:08 PM roycroft: if i can give enough resources to the vm it will run the vm only a few percent slower than native
06:08 PM XXCoder: though with ram cuts
06:08 PM roycroft: the problems are that mac os is a pig
06:08 PM roycroft: and the gpu in an imac is kind of sucky
06:08 PM roycroft: i could get an imac pro, with a really good gpu, but that's like $5k+
06:08 PM XXCoder: for browsing and chat only, you could get rpi4 with reasonable screen
06:09 PM XXCoder: $150 at most
06:09 PM roycroft: well i have a macbook pro with a thuderbolt port
06:09 PM roycroft: it would be easy to just plug that into one of my displays
06:09 PM roycroft: for that matter, i hvae an old 20" imac on my desk sitting next to the main computer
06:09 PM roycroft: it is running linux mint
06:10 PM roycroft: and i can do curses-based stuff and email and web browsing with that
06:10 PM roycroft: it's kind of slow, but it works
06:10 PM XXCoder: yeah. many options not involving buying new expensive one
06:24 PM roycroft: the thing is, after i finish my cnc router design i don't know when i'll be doing anything that complex again
06:25 PM XXCoder: true
06:25 PM roycroft: i'm thinking of getting vcarve pro for the router, and it would probably be best to wait until i purchase that and see if i need a dedicate computer for it
06:25 PM XXCoder: you probably can kind of cheat on designing, for example when designing gantry, bed and stuff is just blocks for low poly count
06:26 PM XXCoder: then when designing bed, gantry is just blocks
06:26 PM roycroft: but if i can find something at the goodwill for $200 or so that can be reasonably upgraded, i might go for that
06:26 PM roycroft: well i'm kind of doing that now
06:26 PM XXCoder: ij
06:26 PM roycroft: when i work on an assembly i suppress the parts i'm not actively working with
06:26 PM XXCoder: *ok
06:26 PM roycroft: so i can mostly work with reasonable performance
06:27 PM roycroft: but when it's done, i need to unsuppress everything, and that takes a while
06:29 PM XXCoder: fun
06:42 PM Alicrow-phone: Okay, I feel stupid asking this, but I can't seem to open the zip file with the mesa card firmware on my LinuxCNC box. Gunzip complains about "unknown suffix", and there don't seem to be any graphical archive managers in the repositories?
06:45 PM _unreal_: 7zip
06:45 PM _unreal_: 7z
06:47 PM Alicrow-phone: That's not available, either.
06:47 PM XXCoder: 7zip is windows only
06:47 PM XXCoder: if I recall right anyway
06:47 PM _unreal_: O,o no....
06:48 PM XXCoder: Alicrow-phone: might try download again
06:48 PM XXCoder: might be one of those rare bad downloads
06:49 PM _unreal_: sigh... hours later now milling the first PCB for my rj45 adapters
06:50 PM _unreal_: till I get too setting up a serial terminal PC to "test" these controllers. I'm wondering if every one of the DSPIC's has been damaged? would not be suprised
06:50 PM Alicrow-phone: Downloaded the zip again, same issue.
06:51 PM XXCoder: hm not sure whats going on there
06:52 PM Alicrow-phone: I also seem to be encountering an issue wherein the computer periodically just freezes up, which didn't happen before when I had the live cd running for a few weeks straight. Kinda concerning.
06:53 PM _unreal_: ?
06:53 PM roycroft: apt -y install unzip
06:54 PM _unreal_: Alicrow-phone, I get the feeling there are more issues then just un compressing a file
06:54 PM roycroft: zip != gzip
06:55 PM Alicrow-phone: Package "unzip" has no installation candidate.
06:55 PM roycroft: this is on debian?
06:55 PM Alicrow-phone: I used the LinuxCNC OS installer off the website.
06:56 PM roycroft: first try this:
06:56 PM roycroft: apt update
06:56 PM roycroft: then try to install it again
06:56 PM roycroft: cat /etc/debian_version
06:56 PM roycroft: if that file exists then it's debian or a derivative
06:57 PM roycroft: if so, then
06:57 PM roycroft: apt update
06:57 PM roycroft: apt-cache search unzip
06:57 PM roycroft: and you should see this on the list:
06:57 PM roycroft: unzip - De-archiver for .zip files
06:57 PM Alicrow-phone: The installer hung when setting up networking, so I installed with no network and then once installed the network worked and I enabled the network mirrors, ran updates and stuff. But I feel like somehow it missed something.
06:57 PM roycroft: then install it
06:58 PM Alicrow-phone: It's not on the list. I just get two nginx packages.
06:58 PM roycroft: i haven't installed linuxcnc from the live cd in a long time - i don't know offhand what os it's on
06:58 PM roycroft: i thought debian
06:59 PM roycroft: maybe it's a really old, unsupported debian
06:59 PM Alicrow-phone: It's debian
06:59 PM roycroft: what does cat /etc/debian_version return?
06:59 PM Alicrow-phone: 10.10
06:59 PM roycroft: then something is really odd
06:59 PM roycroft: because when i did apt-cache search unzip on a 101 machine i got a couple dozen package candidates, including unzip
07:00 PM roycroft: 35 packages, actually
07:01 PM roycroft: anyway, i have to run
07:01 PM roycroft: that is the utility you need
07:01 PM roycroft: perhaps someone else here can help you figure out why aptitude can't find it
07:04 PM Alicrow-phone: Okay, I think the issue was somehow the installer only put in (commented out) entries for the security update repos, not the regular ones. I added some entries from debian's wiki and now there are more updates available.
07:07 PM _unreal_: what packages do you have installed package managers?
07:07 PM _unreal_: do you have the free/nonfree
07:08 PM Alicrow-phone: Cool, I got unzip, file-roller, and gedit available now, as well as a bunch of other stuff.
07:09 PM Alicrow-phone: Is there a LinuxCNC repository I should have, too?
07:10 PM _unreal_: its running on debian
07:10 PM _unreal_: linux cnc its self just software not an OS
07:11 PM Tom_L: Alicrow-phone, if you installed from the live cd you have linux then you can point the package manager to the update site
07:12 PM Tom_L: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
07:12 PM Tom_L: or download the appropriate deb
07:12 PM Tom_L: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/
07:12 PM Tom_L: former approach would be better
07:17 PM Alicrow-phone: Looks like I do somehow have www.linuxcnc.org repos enabled, even though they're not in /etc/apt/sources.list
07:18 PM Alicrow-phone: Should I switch that to buildbot, or leave it as the www?
07:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: leave it
07:21 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Debian just to keep noobs on their toes leaves things out or has drop downs or features that don't actually work
07:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: rather than clean all this up they just leave it alone so that you to become one of those that says " just ignore that and do this this and this"
07:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: vs actually fixing them
07:22 PM CaptHindsight[m]: but that is Debian
07:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: about 2 months ago I did about 10 LCNC installs from the latest live ISO
07:26 PM CaptHindsight[m]: the only issues were the networking manager and BIOS settings
07:27 PM CaptHindsight[m]: this was on 10 different PC's, with various CPU's memory, drives etc etc
07:37 PM _unreal_: FINALLY I got the old ibm p1 200mmx laptop to boot
07:37 PM _unreal_: ok and it had putty installed.
07:37 PM _unreal_: I dont know what the error was but it kept doing ODD stuff bios errors you know the annoying IBM laptop bs
07:37 PM _unreal_: from way back
07:38 PM perry_j1987: what are you doing with that?
07:46 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I got it. I got serial terminal
07:46 PM _unreal_: ve7it, you live?
07:46 PM ve7it: well?
07:46 PM _unreal_: not sure what to do
07:46 PM _unreal_: been a while
07:46 PM Alicrow-phone: Ooooh, IBM
07:47 PM _unreal_: I got coms text on the screen so the first dspic I plugged into IS alive
07:47 PM Alicrow-phone: My wife is a big IBM fan. We have a few IBMs, including an old mainframe we have absolutely no way to interface to.
07:49 PM Alicrow-phone: Okay, I just want to do a simple test to see the computer read some GPIO. Just hook a switch between ground and a GPIO pin on the breakout board,
07:49 PM Alicrow-phone: Damn, this cat is nuzzling my phone
07:50 PM Alicrow-phone: Anyway, the card expects inputs to be hooked to ground, right? (Considering half the pins on the headers on ground)
07:51 PM _unreal_: ve7it, right now I have the encoder wired up but not motor power
07:52 PM _unreal_: E command
07:52 PM _unreal_: the encoder IS working
07:53 PM _unreal_: ve7it, ok I set the encoder to 500
07:53 PM _unreal_: err when I installed both encoders. I set them to 500PPR
07:54 PM _unreal_: I'm NOT going to change that value unless I have too. to risky to remove the encoders from there plastic reciver bases
07:55 PM _unreal_: ve7it, so looking at the console and hitting ? it gives basics bu hehe I'm not really sure what I need to do to get it setup and tuned
07:55 PM ve7it: turn the motors 1 rev and see how many ticks the encoder counts
07:57 PM ve7it: mind is kind of fuzzy.. havent worked on that project since 2006!
07:57 PM ve7it: I will have to look in sources for commands
07:59 PM _unreal_: saddly I dont have the motor setup in front of me so I hve to keep running back and forth
07:59 PM _unreal_: as is everything is set to 0's
07:59 PM _unreal_: PID ff0 ff1 amps etc...
08:00 PM _unreal_: so the motor I have plugged in to the "current" motor controller is the scooter motor. its rated 24v 100watt
08:01 PM _unreal_: as I recall the setup you helped me with has a 30v psu after bridge
08:01 PM _unreal_: so do I want to set the amps to equal 100watt? or should I give it some over head?
08:02 PM _unreal_: ve7it, 30v 100watt= 3.33 amps
08:03 PM _unreal_: interesting 24v 100 watt= 4.16 amps. I like that 30v less heat
08:04 PM ve7it: look in the source file commands.c for a list of the commands
08:05 PM _unreal_: the command ? gives a list
08:05 PM ve7it: yup that works
08:06 PM ve7it: actually any unknown command char gives you that list
08:07 PM _unreal_: ok E gives me 2000 ticks per rotation
08:07 PM _unreal_: so 500 PPR=2000 lines of res
08:07 PM ve7it: with no motor power, you can explore the effect of the servo loop using the s cmd
08:08 PM ve7it: that should be good
08:08 PM _unreal_: the fun part will be getting the settings needed entered to make it function.
08:08 PM _unreal_: BECAUSE its reading the encoder I'm going to assume this motor controller board should be good.
08:08 PM _unreal_: so should I enter: t 2000
08:08 PM _unreal_: something like that?
08:09 PM _unreal_: if I just type T it just gives a list of spects feed back
08:09 PM ve7it: t 10
08:10 PM ve7it: should set servo loop to run at 10 * 100us or 1ms intervals
08:10 PM _unreal_: ?
08:11 PM ve7it: there should be reasonable settings by default... or did you zero everything?
08:11 PM _unreal_: I think everything is zero'ed by default
08:11 PM ve7it: maybe on new harware
08:11 PM _unreal_: ya they are all zeroed by default
08:12 PM _unreal_: the code on these chips is the code that you re-compiled for the 6mhz crystal?
08:12 PM _unreal_: maybe it has everything zeroed by default?
08:12 PM _unreal_: PID and everything is sitting at 0
08:13 PM _unreal_: ya https://ve7it.cowlug.org/dspic-servo.html
08:13 PM _unreal_: the settings listed on the page are not what is loaded
08:13 PM _unreal_: so I guess I should copy those for starters
08:14 PM ve7it: ok.. set some defaults... p 0.1, i 0.0, d 0.0, 0 0.0, 1 0.0, b 0.0 m 3.0 f 100.0, x 1, t 10
08:16 PM ve7it: yup... it will take some exploring
08:17 PM ve7it: s command will show you how pid works... get some params set, then type s
08:17 PM _unreal_: ugh... running back and forth
08:18 PM ve7it: then move the motor say 1/10 turn.. type s again
08:18 PM _unreal_: the magnet stops are rather strong 1/10 turn will be interesting
08:19 PM ve7it: thats ok... s shows you the commanded position, the feedback position, errors and the drive output calculated
08:21 PM _unreal_: hum
08:22 PM _unreal_: wondering if I should plug motor power in now that I have some values set
08:22 PM _unreal_: what should I expect if the encoder/motor wires are backwords
08:23 PM _unreal_: goes crazy? or just errors out and shuts down?
08:24 PM ve7it: as you turn the motor, you should see the drive increase or decrease as it tries to hold the motor in position... the P gain determines how much drive is applied for a certain amount of position error.. Pgain * position error = output drive (limited by max output current)
08:26 PM ve7it: the f command sets how far out of position it can be before it faults the drive
08:27 PM ve7it: f500 - will fault if more than 1/4 turn out of position... runaway limited to 1/4 turn then
08:30 PM ve7it: once it has control, the j command is pretty useful for improving the motor tuning... j2000 will give the motor setpoints 1 rev (2000 encoder counts) apart... it will go back and forth between the 2 positions and the con play with the pid params to tighten the positioning loop up
08:31 PM _unreal_: ok p 0.001 and it holds
08:31 PM _unreal_: p0.1 and it just went nuts and faulted
08:31 PM ve7it: try s
08:32 PM ve7it: ok.. now you know a p gain of 0.1 is too high!
08:32 PM _unreal_: ya it went NUTS back and forth
08:32 PM _unreal_: had to swan dive on the drive
08:32 PM ve7it: and p0.001 is probably too low
08:33 PM _unreal_: I think so
08:34 PM _unreal_: ve7it, this shaft end setup with the encoder is working nice
08:34 PM ve7it: welcome to servos!... when the gain is too high, it makes an oscillator
08:35 PM _unreal_: I've had to do PID tuning on my quads but its been a long time since I have even put one of them in the air
08:35 PM _unreal_: LONG time
08:36 PM _unreal_: ve7it, any suggestions on how high I should set the current max?
08:36 PM _unreal_: or should I keep it AT 100 watts
08:37 PM ve7it: you can set a lower m command to decrease the max motor current... it can be set higher when you get the loop tuned..... also... clamp that motor to something... it has enough power to rip the wires off if it oscillates
08:37 PM _unreal_: did I mention I had to swan dive on it
08:38 PM _unreal_: sadly I can only lightly tune everything because. untill the machine has been built. values are just guess work
08:38 PM ve7it: yup... can get exciting... people have hopped their milling machines across the floor
08:38 PM _unreal_: ve7it, the more I look at it. those bldc's should make an amazing laser or 3d printer
08:39 PM ve7it: you can get it close... ok , got the dinner call
08:39 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I'm still wondering what you will end up doing with those BLCD's I sent ya
08:46 PM _unreal_: ve7it, ???? ok it just started doing odd stuff
08:46 PM _unreal_: getting garbage on the console
08:47 PM _unreal_: ve7it, its also loosing its settings?
09:01 PM _unreal_: ve7it, ya I dont really know how much I trust the working condition of these drivers.....
09:02 PM t4nk_freenode: https://postimg.cc/gallery/vd0XTDk
09:02 PM t4nk_freenode: I made the cutest little bearings :)
09:02 PM _unreal_: what is odd is the one I'm "testing" started to print garbage on the screen. and when I turned the shaft on the motor. !@!!!!! one of the other motor controllers that is only connected to power nothing else? the LED started to flash
09:03 PM _unreal_: the only thing all of the 4 boards have in common connection wise is power. they all 4 connect to a power distribution board
09:04 PM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, that should function 10x better
09:04 PM _unreal_: cut your resistance WAYYY down
09:05 PM t4nk_freenode: think so... I was thinking things over.. was gonna mess around with skateboard bearings, and square tubes.. but I really didn't wanna go there
09:05 PM t4nk_freenode: so now I've made drop in replacements
09:05 PM t4nk_freenode: with miniature bearings
09:06 PM _unreal_: mini bearings BIG bearings. all that matters is what is the weakest link
09:06 PM _unreal_: the main issue you'll run into with small bearings is that if anything gets onto the rails and they run over it. its going to SHOW
09:07 PM _unreal_: also you would be amazed as how much crap builds up on ball bearings
09:07 PM _unreal_: I clean my bearings with rubbing alcohol once every 100 hours
09:07 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah, I stuck a marker in there to test... and it's already dirty
09:08 PM _unreal_: they build up JUNK just like the rollers inside the old 1990's ball based computer mice
09:08 PM _unreal_: as long as you have access to those they should be easy to clean
09:10 PM t4nk_freenode: I just wasn't satisfied, after all the changes I made, fortifying the axis and so.. the up movement is ok, but the downward movement of the axis is a bit laggy, can't have that when I need precision for the pcbs
09:10 PM t4nk_freenode: so I hope this will be better
09:10 PM t4nk_freenode: heh, I don't see how I'll have easy access to them once I fit them
09:10 PM _unreal_: the main thing you'll find with ball bearings
09:10 PM _unreal_: is they have an EXACT tension
09:11 PM roycroft: you don't *find* anything with ball bearings
09:11 PM roycroft: you *lose* ball bearings
09:11 PM roycroft: :)
09:11 PM _unreal_: to much tension and they roll hard.. to little and they will be loose
09:11 PM t4nk_freenode: I think my printer is pretty ok; the other bearings on the square tube are perfect
09:12 PM t4nk_freenode: made them just touch in the design, and then the printed version was nice
09:12 PM t4nk_freenode: so I'm assuming these will be fine too
09:12 PM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, you may want to think about drilling a hole so you can use a qtip to clean
09:13 PM _unreal_: looks like the two in the "main" body have no access
09:13 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah
09:13 PM t4nk_freenode: not gonna be easy
09:13 PM t4nk_freenode: perhaps just squirt a bunch of IPA in them
09:13 PM _unreal_: I would drill a hole for access for qtip accesss
09:13 PM _unreal_: they will build up gunk
09:14 PM t4nk_freenode: I think I'm going to order some better parts soon
09:14 PM t4nk_freenode: been looking around a bit
09:14 PM _unreal_: you will want to use nylock nuts
09:14 PM t4nk_freenode: ?
09:14 PM t4nk_freenode: ah, so they don't come loose you mean
09:14 PM _unreal_: wait is there a wayto tension?
09:14 PM _unreal_: or is that one solid body
09:15 PM t4nk_freenode: no way to tension, but like I said.. my printer is tuned pretty nicely
09:15 PM t4nk_freenode: they may be on the tight side, but certainly not too loose
09:15 PM _unreal_: how tight are those bearings when you feed them onto a tube?
09:16 PM _unreal_: or have you tested?
09:16 PM _unreal_: What I'm wondering is HOW tight are they
09:16 PM _unreal_: if anything I'd modify that design so that the Square with the single bearing is a FREE part that gets drawn in with 2 bolts
09:16 PM t4nk_freenode: haven't tried yet, need to disassemble the whole thing to fit them and I haven't got any other 9mm rods to test
09:16 PM _unreal_: :S
09:17 PM _unreal_: you dont have any extra rod?
09:17 PM t4nk_freenode: can't man... my design is so tight
09:24 PM solarwind: Acetone is really expensive...
09:24 PM solarwind: Anyone know where I can buy a jug for a reasonable price?
09:24 PM t4nk_freenode: it can be pretty cheap, if you don't mind the strawberry odour :b
09:25 PM solarwind: I don't. Where can I get it?
09:25 PM t4nk_freenode: nail salon.
09:25 PM t4nk_freenode: dollar shop
09:25 PM solarwind: They don't use acetone in those anymore
09:25 PM solarwind: They're all labelled "acetone free!!!!"
09:26 PM t4nk_freenode: I got a couple of bottles the other day when I experimented with dipping 3d prints in them
09:29 PM t4nk_freenode: btw, _unreal_ I think I will be able to clean the two inner ones after all
09:29 PM t4nk_freenode: on the back side there are slots
09:30 PM t4nk_freenode: in the last picture you can see it
09:31 PM t4nk_freenode: heh, acutaly the one in the back will be the one I can't reach...
09:32 PM t4nk_freenode: bleh, but that's ok, it's just for a little while until I make another machine
09:45 PM roycroft: acetone is expensive?
09:45 PM roycroft: i get it at jerry's for $14.95/gallon
09:47 PM roycroft: lacquer thinner is a couple dollars more than that
09:47 PM roycroft: denatured ethanol and mineral spirits are $14.95
09:48 PM roycroft: wd-40 is $24.95/gallon
09:58 PM solarwind: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/solvable-professional-grade-acetone-3-78-l/1000130927 Ah about $30 CAD here
09:59 PM solarwind: I guess that's not too bad
09:59 PM solarwind: Paint thinner is half the price of that
10:09 PM roycroft: if you could find nail polish remover that is acetone-based, it would probably cost about $150/gallon
10:10 PM roycroft: and it would be useless for most industrial purposes
10:28 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: I'm getting 100% acetone here at the dollar store for ~$1.50 a liter.
10:30 PM Bleepshop: Depends on whether you live in a 'nanny state' or not. We can get all kinds of things at the farm store here that would get a police/Fed response if you asked for them in CA, OR or WA... LOL
10:33 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: Acetone is an odd one here in the states, they exempted acetone form the high vapor pressure solvents list
10:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: it's one of the few high vapor pressure solvents that one can easily purchase here
10:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Klean-Strip-Acetone-1-Gallon/17208794 $9.68 USD/gal... 3.8L
10:39 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/solvable-professional-grade-acetone-3-78-l/1000130927 maybe look for consumer grade vs professional grade acetone :)
10:39 PM solarwind: Yeah that's the one that I linked above
10:49 PM solarwind: I guess I could always drink methanol and extract it out of my bloodstream
10:50 PM solarwind: Whoops, sorry, meant isopropanol, not methanol
11:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just had my first traffic stop where the deputy said "just fishing", what an a-hole
11:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: solarwind: how are things up north?
11:01 PM XXCoder: capt certainly something to make complant on
11:02 PM XXCoder: I mean, you might be barely on time for work
11:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: just small town petty tyrants with badges
11:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: no mask
11:03 PM XXCoder: of course