#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 11 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:43 AM Deejay: moin
05:15 AM Tom_L: morning
06:14 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:14 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:53 AM JT-Cave: morning
08:58 AM sambauer64: hi. if I have linuxcnc inside a VM, could I use it?
09:16 AM JT-Cave: depends on exactly what "use it" means
09:30 AM Alicrow-phone: Looking at Mesa Anything IO cards. I'm a but confused why the 7i90HD (parallel port interface) is only $59, but the 7i80HD (Ethernet interface) is $169. Both have the same number of I/O bits. Seems like two great a price difference to be as simple as parallel vs Ethernet.
09:32 AM Alicrow-phone: And then the 5i24 (PCI) is either $119 or $139 depending on the FPGA in it. Again, same I/O.
09:56 AM randy: i use 7i92M
09:56 AM randy: "only" 34 io/s
09:59 AM Alicrow-phone: Well, my wife (who's the actual professional machine shop person) wants a bunch of physical buttons on the control panel, so between that and the motors/encoders, limit switches, future pendants, et cetera, I'll actually need more than 72 I/O pins when all is said and done.
09:59 AM Alicrow-phone: Which is kinda crazy, how much it all adds up.
10:03 AM randy: why not using an extra card via smart serial for HMI?
10:07 AM randy: 7i93 would have 48 i/os ;)
10:26 AM Alicrow-phone: We're going to have to use a second card when we add some more features (control panel, pendants, et cetera). But for now I'm just aiming for the necessities to get it running.
10:35 AM Tom_L: i'm using the 7i90 and if you need more than 72IO add a sserial card to it for slower things like buttons or switches
10:35 AM Tom_L: your pc may not have a parallel port though
10:37 AM unterhaus_: if all you need is i/o, you could consider a 7i93 and use external i/o board from a company like grayhill. They are made to be compatible
10:37 AM unterhaus_: like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/233220311878
10:38 AM unterhaus_: although it's hard to beat the 7i96 if you repurpose some of the step dir
10:49 AM Alicrow-phone: Well, the 7i93 is out of stock, so I'm not getting that now.
10:50 AM Tom_L: i would imagine the ethernet interface is more complicated than a parallel port
10:51 AM Tom_L: it does have the same io as the 7i90 though like you said
10:54 AM Tom_L: both take the 50 pin daughter cards
10:58 AM randy: ethernet needs also additional components like the magjack
10:58 AM randy: other layout/different PCB
10:58 AM randy: maybe another spartan 6 type?
11:01 AM Alicrow-phone: Magjack?
11:02 AM randy: "rj45 connector"
11:02 AM Alicrow-phone: My theory is that the 7i90 probably has a much cheaper FPGA, but it doesn't give specs or a model for it.
11:03 AM Tom_L: i think they're the same
11:03 AM Tom_L: i have both
11:04 AM Tom_L: the 7i80 might have more cells but i think they're the same
11:06 AM Tom_L: xc6slx16
11:08 AM randy: 7i90 should be XC6SLX9 according to forum.linuxcnc
11:10 AM Tom_L: i could look...
11:11 AM Tom_L: yep
11:12 AM Tom_L: needs more space for the ethernet stuff
11:23 AM Tom_L: either way they're unobtanium nowdays
11:29 AM roguish[m]: Tom_L: randy Mesanet is, like everyone, experiencing serious component sourcing problems. Give 'em time.....
11:33 AM * JT-Cave wonders why anyone would want a 7i93 vs a 7i92?
11:33 AM JT-Cave: unless you have 50 pin daughter cards now
11:36 AM Alicrow-phone: I need a 50 pin card because I want to use two of the 7i40-HV daughter cards for servo control, and those use 50 pin.
11:36 AM JT-Cave: that makes sense now
11:38 AM enleth: Alicrow-phone: for non-safety-critical buttons, hal has a matrix keyboard component, you get m*n buttons using m inputs and n outputs or vice versa
11:38 AM JT-Cave: I have a 5i25-16, 7i80HD-16 and a 7i90HD in stock
11:40 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, is he phasing out the 50 pin cards?
11:40 AM t4nk_freenode: https://postimg.cc/gallery/Yw9k8ZB starting to look like something now ;)
11:40 AM roycroft: i am glad that i have what mesa boards i need for now
11:40 AM roguish[m]: Tom_L: I hope not, that's what I use
11:40 AM roycroft: hopefully, when i need more, the supply side problem will no longer be an issue
11:40 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, yes I'm phasing them out
11:41 AM JT-Cave: I can't remember the last time I sold a 50 pin card
11:42 AM JT-Cave: oh you mean Peter? I don't think so
11:42 AM Alicrow-phone: Is there a daughter card or something for that multiplexing/matrix thing?
11:43 AM Tom_L: not that i'm aware of
11:44 AM enleth: Alicrow-phone: doesn't have to be dedicated, literally any spare I/O accessible to hal will work as a software-controlled matrix keyboard
11:44 AM Tom_L: you would have to do the decoding yourself though
11:45 AM enleth: Tom_L: no, there's a matrix component
11:45 AM JT-Cave: 7i37TA is an IDC50 I/O card
11:45 AM JT-Cave: and I have one of them
11:45 AM Tom_L: ahh
11:45 AM JT-Cave: lunch minute is up
11:45 AM Tom_L: just sat down for mine
11:45 AM * roycroft ate breakfast a short while ago
11:47 AM Alicrow-phone: Unless there's an easy way to hook up that matrix thingy, I'll probably end up just using another card when the time comes.
11:48 AM Rab: I've always been baffled by Mesa's product matrix, possibly because my applications are very generic...what's a good upgrade path from a parport BoB with 4 step/dir axes and a handful of limit switches? Either PCIe or ethernet.
11:48 AM Rab: I did exceed the I/O for switches, so now I have two parports driving two BoBs.
11:49 AM Tom_L: 7i96 maybe
11:49 AM Tom_L: all in one
11:54 AM enleth: Rab: is there actually *a* product matrix, that allows easy filtering, comparison and discovery of the features of different boards?
11:54 AM JT-Cave: depending on the I/O count either a 7i96 or a 7i76E
11:55 AM JT-Cave: you could also go 7i92 + 7i76
11:55 AM enleth: Rab: I am a huge fan of what Mesa does, but so far I could not find a better product selection/discovery mechanism than "go to #linuxcnc and ask pcw or JT"
11:55 AM Rab: enleth, I assumed I hadn't found it.
11:55 AM JT-Cave: Rab, this page has good info https://mesaus.com/
11:56 AM JT-Cave: enleth, actually my home page measus.com has a good bit of info on various combinations
11:56 AM Rab: JT-Cave, thanks!
11:56 AM JT-Cave: yw
11:57 AM * JT-Cave is only on the irc down here until I get a switch for the shop
12:07 PM roycroft: do you need an ethernet switch, jt-cave?
12:12 PM Alicrow-phone: I guess I'll just go with the 7i90HD parallel port card, since it's half the price of the next cheapest option.
12:13 PM Tom_L: you will need a daughter card or three for it if you use all the io
12:13 PM Tom_L: and 50 pin idc
12:16 PM Alicrow-phone: I can't connect stuff to the pins directly?
12:16 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't recomend it, they go straight to the fpga
12:16 PM Tom_L: i ran a few switches on mine on the 2nd port
12:17 PM Tom_L: they will sink more than they source
12:32 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:34 PM JT-Shop: temporary internet connect established until the new gigabit switch arrives
12:35 PM Tom_L: how big a switch did you get?
12:36 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, I got a gigabit poe switch on the way...
12:36 PM JT-Shop: it's only 4 port with uplink for my desk and neighboring CNC machines
12:37 PM Tom_L: i converted an old router so i have wifi out there as well as ethernet
12:38 PM roycroft: ok
12:38 PM roycroft: i have a bunch of old cisco gige switches that i'm getting rid of
12:38 PM roycroft: none are poe though
12:38 PM roycroft: i do have an old catalyst that is poe that i'm also getting rid of
12:38 PM roycroft: i'd have sent you one if you needed it, but it sounds like you have things handled
12:38 PM Tom_L: 24 port?
12:39 PM roycroft: some 24 port, some 48 port
12:39 PM roycroft: i also have some me3400s, 12 port and 24 port
12:39 PM roycroft: actually they're 16 port and 28 port, because they have sfp jacks for uplink, etc.
12:39 PM roycroft: those are nice little switches
12:40 PM roycroft: all the switches i'm getting rid of are l2/l3 hybrids with the ios i have on them, except that old poe catalyst, which is l2 only (and runs catos, not ios)
12:40 PM Tom_L: i needed the wifi because the garage door monitor uses it otherwise i wouldn't need it but it does extend the range quite a bit
12:41 PM Tom_L: the house wifi was kinda flakey out there
12:41 PM roycroft: i have a wlan controller that i'm getting rid of as well
12:41 PM roycroft: you can set up a wifi mesh network with it
12:41 PM roycroft: using cisco outdoor aps that are really cheap now
12:42 PM roycroft: the only problem with it is that the radios that connect to it are old, and have factory-installed certificates that cannot be replaced
12:42 PM roycroft: and the wlan controller itself cannot use modern certificates
12:42 PM roycroft: all the radio certificates have expired, so to use the system you have to set the clock back 10 years on the controller
12:43 PM roycroft: if you can live with that then it works great
12:43 PM roycroft: these certificates are what the radios use to authenticate to the controller and join the mesh
12:43 PM roycroft: they're not end-user visible
12:51 PM unterhaus_: JT-Shop, did you ever get your Jessem clearcut set up?
12:51 PM JT-Shop: yes, quite a while back
12:51 PM unterhaus_: any pictures online?
12:52 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, I could use a spare gigabit switch for sure
12:52 PM JT-Shop: unterhaus_, let me see
12:53 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/wood-working/saw-stop/jessem-mount.jpg
12:54 PM JT-Shop: used magnets so it's easy to remove and use a fence slide
12:54 PM JT-Shop: I need a wifi extender for the grill, it can't connect anymore to the wifi in the cave
12:57 PM roycroft: these are big switches - rack-mountable, managed switches
12:57 PM roycroft: i'll send you one if you can use it
12:58 PM roycroft: i reset them all to factory settings - i think that out of the box, all the ports are enabled, and they all default to vlan 1
12:58 PM roycroft: so you could plug one in and use it as a dumb switch
12:58 PM JT-Shop: what is a managed switch?
12:59 PM roycroft: it means you can log into it and configure the settings for the ports
12:59 PM roycroft: configure routing, etc.
12:59 PM roycroft: these are l2/l3 switches
12:59 PM roycroft: so you can do routing on them
12:59 PM roycroft: even some dynamic routing - i think they support ospf with the ios i have on them
12:59 PM JT-Shop: might be a bit of an over kill for my use
12:59 PM roycroft: probably more than you need, or moost folks
01:00 PM JT-Shop: yeah I think so
01:00 PM roycroft: in a data center they're pretty userful
01:00 PM roycroft: useful
01:00 PM roycroft: if you're doing vlans they can be useful
01:01 PM JT-Shop: all that is over my head lol
01:04 PM roycroft: i do a lot of work setting up networks in private address space
01:04 PM roycroft: it's nice having managed switches in my home network because when i'm setting up a customer network i can configure their network at home, and set everything up here, and then just haul the gear over to the customer site, plug it in, and it will work
01:05 PM JT-Shop: that makes it nice
01:06 PM roycroft: yeah, the less time i have to spend on-site the better
01:06 PM roycroft: and i still get to bill for the configuration time
01:06 PM roycroft: oh nice
01:07 PM JT-Shop: speaking of bills I have a couple of invoices to make out
01:07 PM roycroft: it looks like my laptop will be delivered today after all
01:07 PM roycroft: everything from back east was delayed because of weather
01:07 PM roycroft: i have 4 parcels stuck in spokane, with ups telling me they'll all be delayed
01:07 PM roycroft: but somehow, my laptop managed to escape spokane and it is going to arrive on time
01:08 PM roycroft: i have a job on-site on friday, and need the laptop for that, and it will take me a full day to restore the os/apps/data onto it
01:08 PM roycroft: so i want two days, for when something goes wrong
01:08 PM roycroft: and now i'll have those two days
01:08 PM roycroft: assuming the ups truck makes it over to eugene from springfield today
01:33 PM roycroft: someone was mentioning preferring direct drive or 1:1 gearing from a z axis motor to the z axis screw on a router, for fast rapids
01:33 PM roycroft: that confused me, because a router doesn't have much z travel
01:33 PM roycroft: i'm concerned about the weight of my spindle and its mount, and am considering a 1:3 gear ratio
01:34 PM roycroft: that should work fine, shouldn't it?
01:34 PM roycroft: i'm looking at about 100-125mm total travel for the z axis
01:43 PM roycroft: for x and y i can see that as an issue
01:43 PM roycroft: my z axis will have a ball screw with a 5mm pitch
01:48 PM JT-Shop: really depends on a lot of factors like ball screw pitch and suspended weight and stepper power
01:48 PM roycroft: yeah, and i think i'm pushing it
01:48 PM roycroft: like i said, the pitch is 5mm
01:48 PM JT-Shop: if you're doing 3D stuff then the Z needs to move pretty fast
01:48 PM roycroft: the suspended weight is about 14kg
01:49 PM roycroft: and it's a 425 oz/in motor
01:49 PM roycroft: it's a router
01:49 PM roycroft: it will be doing 2d and 2.5d stuff
01:49 PM roycroft: which is why i think gearing it down will be fine
01:49 PM JT-Shop: some do those images with a router
01:50 PM roycroft: i've no plans to do 3d stuff for quite a while
01:50 PM JT-Shop: aye for 2.5d slow is ok
01:50 PM roycroft: but i also know that once i get the machine online i'll probably find more uses for it than i'm thinking about now
01:50 PM JT-Shop: how fast it moves also depends on the voltage and the max rpm of the stepper
01:51 PM roycroft: y is where i'm going to need some speed, as that axis will have about 1700mm of travel
01:51 PM roycroft: my power supply is 48v
01:51 PM roycroft: it actually can put out about 54v
01:51 PM roycroft: i don't know the max rpms of the motors offhand
01:52 PM JT-Shop: what size motor?
01:52 PM roycroft: i just don't think that for what i'll be doing, initially at least, z axis speed is a big deal
01:52 PM roycroft: nema 23, 425oz/in
01:52 PM roycroft: i think i can feed it 70v
01:53 PM JT-Shop: which drive are you using?
01:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://us.misumi-ec.com/maker/misumi/mech/product/bs/choice/
01:54 PM JT-Shop: that's a huge nema 23 stepper
01:54 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://www.roton.com/screw-university/formula-calculators/
01:55 PM roycroft: gecko 201x
01:55 PM roycroft: i'm going to need one more motor anyway, so i could get a larger motor for the z if necessary
01:56 PM roycroft: but that makes sparing a lot more expensive - i'd have to stock two spare motors, not one, if they're not all the same
01:56 PM JT-Shop: that drive can take 80v
01:56 PM roycroft: yeah
01:56 PM roycroft: but my power supply can't put out 80v
01:57 PM roycroft: i figured that ~50v would get me decent speeds
01:57 PM JT-Shop: nema 23 steppers usually do about 1400 - 2000 rpm just depends on the motor
01:57 PM JT-Shop: the higher the voltage the more power you have at higher speeds
01:58 PM JT-Shop: the wiki has lots of charts on stepper info
01:59 PM roycroft: iirc the motors are 2000rpm
01:59 PM roycroft: i don't have the specs at hand
01:59 PM roycroft: but i'm pretty sure they're 2000rpm
01:59 PM roycroft: and again, i do not intend this to be a production router
02:00 PM roycroft: if i ever change my mind, by that point i should have enough experience with it to know what to do to make it production-ready
02:00 PM roycroft: this is intended to be more than a getting my toes wet router
02:00 PM roycroft: but not a full immersion head dive router
02:01 PM roycroft: more like a knee deep router
02:01 PM roycroft: maybe even waist deep
02:26 PM Rab: roycroft, engraving is only 2D, but I can attest that it's maddening with a slow Z axis. My router spends more time traveling vertically than horizontally. But it's an extreme case, a 10tpi Acme screw driven at a 3.33:1 ratio.
02:29 PM roycroft: that's actually a use case that is immediately apt for this machine
02:29 PM roycroft: i may very well be doing some engraving almost from day one
02:32 PM roycroft: perhaps i should design it with a non-direct coupled motor for the z, but make the z motor mounting plate large enough that i can fairly easily replace the nema 23 motor (mine's about the most powerful nema 23 available) with a nema 34 if i decide it's too maddeningly slow and the nema 23 isn't powerful enough to run at 1:1
02:33 PM roycroft: and actually, if i were to do that, the nema 23 motor could become the spare for the other axes, and all i'd have to do is buy a pair of nema 34 motors
02:33 PM roycroft: i don't mind the space required for spares, but i do prefer keeping the number of spares down for cost purposes
02:35 PM roycroft: i'll do some maths before i make any decisions, though - now that i have the weight of the spindle assembly calculated, i can actually do the maths
02:51 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i bet you could get away with 1:1 on z with that stepper
02:51 PM Tom_L: i did 3:1 because i didn't want to stall on a decent size drill etc
02:51 PM Tom_L: but i'm pretty sure that's overkill too
02:52 PM Tom_L: i purchased 2:1 and 3:1 sprockets in case i changed my mind
02:52 PM Tom_L: sprockets/pulleys?
02:54 PM roycroft: i'm already designing the z axis assembly a bit large, so that i can incorporate an independent extractor shoe later on
02:54 PM roycroft: so designing the top plate to handle nema 34 as well as nema 23 probably won't add much more to the size of it
02:55 PM roycroft: i think i do want to try my current motor first
03:00 PM Tom_L: your stepper will be plenty big
03:05 PM Tom_L: my z has quite a bit of weight on it and it does fine with no counterweight
03:10 PM Tom_L: i did mount the motor such that i used pulleys so i could change it if needed
03:11 PM roycroft: who manages the linuxcnc wiki?
03:12 PM roycroft: i just made some changes and they show up for a minute then revert to the old version
03:12 PM Tom_L: also consider the mass of the nema34 will likely produce less rpm than a nema23
03:12 PM Tom_L: roycroft, you need to log in first
03:12 PM Tom_L: the mascot is the password
03:12 PM roycroft: i did
03:12 PM Tom_L: couldn't tell you then
03:12 PM roycroft: i logged in, made the changes, saved them, and they showed up on the page
03:13 PM roycroft: then i reloaded a couple minutes later and they were gone
03:13 PM Tom_L: been a long time since i did anything on the wiki
03:13 PM roycroft: i was just fixing some broken links
03:13 PM Tom_L: refresh your browser?
03:13 PM roycroft: but i have two customers freaking out right now because they did not do what i told them to do, so i have to deal with them
03:13 PM roycroft: i'll look at the wiki again when i can
03:33 PM roycroft: i had refreshed my brower but it showed the old links
03:33 PM roycroft: i just finished putting out the customer fires, refreshed again, and now the new links show up
03:34 PM roycroft: i am running safari, and it does weird stuff like that at times, so i'm not really surprised it was a local thing
03:35 PM XXCoder: omicron specific vaccine in march
03:36 PM roycroft: there may be a "super vaccine" in the works that will be effective with all sars virii, past, present, and future
03:36 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, which page?
03:36 PM roycroft: but now we have reports of a new variant
03:36 PM roycroft: which is a combination of delta and omicron
03:37 PM roycroft: the wiring best practices page, jt-shop
03:37 PM JT-Shop: got a link?
03:37 PM roycroft: there were some dead links to external documents
03:37 PM roycroft: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Best_Wiring_Practices
03:37 PM XXCoder: roy nice. im definitly getting omicron one when its out
03:37 PM roycroft: i found the documents on the wayback machine, and they are useful
03:37 PM roycroft: so i loaded them on one of my servers and linked to there
03:38 PM roycroft: if someone wants to load them on the linuxcnc.org site that would be fine
03:38 PM roycroft: and probably more maintainable
03:38 PM JT-Shop: I see your links at the bottom
03:39 PM roycroft: yes
03:39 PM roycroft: and there were no copyrights on either document, so i think i'm ok snarfing from the wayback machine and hosting them myself
03:44 PM JT-Shop: damn web page is not updating in firefox... Coop Uno last update 07:16:03 AM
03:44 PM JT-Shop: Coop Deux 03:29:24
03:45 PM roycroft: i wonder if the wiki sets a cacheing cookie or something
03:45 PM roycroft: or if the website is distributed - i don't know who hosts it
03:45 PM JT-Shop: I think it's on dreamhost
03:45 PM JT-Shop: but I might be wrong
03:46 PM roycroft: yes, it's in dreamhost address space
03:46 PM * roycroft just looked it up
03:46 PM roycroft: they may do some caching
03:46 PM unterhaus_: can a lazy person such as myself run a web server or is it just asking for hackers?
03:46 PM roycroft: yes and yes :)
03:47 PM roycroft: it's not too hard to harden a website, depending on what you're doing with it
03:47 PM roycroft: the real problem is where to hose it
03:47 PM roycroft: host it
03:47 PM roycroft: you won't have much luck doing it on a residential dsl or cablemodem service
03:47 PM roycroft: unless it's extremely low traffic, and primarily for personal use
03:48 PM roycroft: the problem is that bandwidth is asynchronous
03:48 PM roycroft: so while you may get a blazing 100Mb/s download speed, you're probagly going to get 256k or 1Mb upload at most
03:48 PM roycroft: so your web server at home would saturate uplink bandwidth pretty easily
03:48 PM roycroft: but you can get a vps for about $5/month and host a web server on it
03:49 PM unterhaus_: vps?
03:49 PM unterhaus_: I wouldn't want to host it
03:49 PM roycroft: usually for that price you get about 20GB of disk and 1TB/month bandwidth
03:49 PM unterhaus_: virtual private server?
03:49 PM roycroft: yes
03:50 PM unterhaus_: any obvious companies to go with?
03:50 PM roycroft: i'm pretty happy with vultr.com
03:51 PM roycroft: i also use hostwinds and interserver.net and i would not recommend either
03:51 PM roycroft: hostwinds just sucks all around
03:51 PM roycroft: interserver works fine, but they have a referral program
03:51 PM roycroft: i referred 4 customers to them, they promised me my referral fees
03:51 PM roycroft: i waited the 90 days for each one
03:52 PM roycroft: and in the end, when i asked where my referral fees were, they said "yeah, we're not going to give you any credit for that"
03:52 PM roycroft: i'm in the process of moving myself and all the people i referred away from them
03:52 PM CaptHindsight[m]: interserver.net support is so so at times, maybe it's non native English speakers when I try to reach them
03:53 PM roycroft: their service is fine
03:53 PM CaptHindsight[m]: roycroft: did they really say that!
03:53 PM roycroft: in those exact words
03:54 PM roycroft: they knew they were legitimate referrals, because their bookkeeping department told me they had record of them, but that my 90 day waiting period to get the credits was not up yet
03:55 PM roycroft: and when it was, that is what they told me
03:55 PM roycroft: oh, and i also was going to use hostgator
03:55 PM roycroft: DO NOT USE HOSTGATOR!
03:56 PM roycroft: i signed up with them
03:56 PM unterhaus_: red cross just sent me an email saying they wanted to give me $10 reward. Not sure they really mean it
03:56 PM roycroft: i had to pay my bill up front
03:56 PM unterhaus_: they didn't mean it :)
03:56 PM roycroft: i went to their secure payment page, and as always, verified that the certificate was valid and that it was a secure connection
03:56 PM CaptHindsight[m]: i tried HOSTGATOR for a few days. Didn't stay
03:57 PM unterhaus_: so I need a domain?
03:57 PM roycroft: seconds later i got notified by my credit card company that someone in hong kong tried to charge several thousand dollars worth of merchandise using my cc
03:57 PM roycroft: the cc company blocked it
03:57 PM roycroft: i reported this to hostgator, suggesting they may have a security breach
03:57 PM roycroft: and they got all pissy with me and denied that it could possibly happen
03:58 PM roycroft: i did a little investigating and found that hostgator are based in dubai, and they run all their financial transactions through an outfit in hong kong
03:58 PM unterhaus_: that happened to me with mcmaster carr, the were similarly offended
03:58 PM roycroft: you need a hostname
03:58 PM roycroft: either your own domain, or some namespace from someone else
03:58 PM unterhaus_: unauthorized charge down the street from mcmaster carr made on the day I placed an order
03:58 PM roycroft: you can, for example, set up a wordpress blog using unterhaus.wordpress.com
03:59 PM roycroft: or whatever they use for their blog namespace
03:59 PM unterhaus_: unterhausen.net is available
03:59 PM roycroft: or you can register unterhaus.com
03:59 PM roycroft: or whatever you want that you can get
04:00 PM unterhaus_: unterhausen.net costs $2 more than unterhausen.com
04:00 PM roycroft: unterhausen.justaboutanything you want is available
04:00 PM roycroft: unterhausen.de is taken, as is unterhausen.so
04:01 PM unterhaus_: someone stole my name
04:01 PM unterhaus_: I would do unterhausen.xxx but people would get the wrong idea
04:01 PM roycroft: and you would pay dearly for the domain
04:01 PM roycroft: .xxx is very expensive
04:02 PM roycroft: i don't remember exactly how much, as i've never registered one
04:02 PM unterhaus_: yeah, $100 more
04:02 PM roycroft: yeah, i just looked it up -i'd have to sell a .xxx for $130
04:03 PM roycroft: but unterhausen.auto would cost you $3k
04:03 PM unterhaus_: why? never even seen a .auto
04:03 PM roycroft: because whoever owns .auto decided that's how much they want to charge
04:04 PM roycroft: .auto, .car, and .cars are the most expensive tlds out there right now
04:04 PM roycroft: all at $3k
04:04 PM roycroft: and that is per year
04:05 PM unterhaus_: so unterhausen.com would cost me $10/yr?
04:05 PM roycroft: if the registrar you're looking at quotes you that, yes
04:05 PM roycroft: i charge $18.50 for .com domains these days, but i'm not spammy
04:05 PM unterhaus_: are there cheaper registrars worth going with?
04:05 PM roycroft: nor is my parent registrar spammy
04:06 PM roycroft: a $10 .com means either that you're getting a price break the first year and it will cost more like $25/year after, or you're going with a registrary who will spam you incessantly and make it almost impossible to make changes to the registration without also buying add-ons
04:07 PM roycroft: i tried cheap registrars
04:07 PM roycroft: i will have nothing to do with them
04:07 PM unterhaus_: makes sense
04:07 PM roycroft: i am a domain registrar, but a reseller
04:07 PM roycroft: i use tucows/opensrs as the parent registrar
04:07 PM roycroft: and they are great
04:08 PM roycroft: my pricing is at the low end above the spammy/scammy ones
04:08 PM roycroft: godaddy are both very spammy and very scammy, btw
04:09 PM roycroft: they can't afford to spend as much as they do on advertising, and sell domains as cheap as they do, without a lot of spam and scam action
04:10 PM roycroft: i price domains at cost recovery, including the small amount of time it takes to bill for them - i do not profit from them
04:18 PM XXCoder: pretty cool https://youtu.be/4s1HXHDpknk
04:19 PM XXCoder: making his own cam for small engine
04:28 PM roycroft: i just verified that my stepper motors are, indeed, 425 oz/in
04:29 PM XXCoder: yeah? hows yoy test?
04:29 PM roycroft: i was almost certain they were, but that's about as powerful as nema 23 motors go
04:29 PM roycroft: oh, i did not test them
04:29 PM roycroft: i just checked the listing and the spec sheet that came with them
04:29 PM XXCoder: ok
04:29 PM roycroft: tom_l was kind of surprised that they were that powerful
04:29 PM roycroft: and indeed, nema 23 motors are usually 275 oz/in or less
04:31 PM roycroft: and checking back, i paid $101 for the three motors in february of 2017
04:31 PM roycroft: i bet they are a lot more now
04:32 PM roycroft: oh, maybe not
04:32 PM roycroft: i'm seeing them for $31 on ebay right now
04:43 PM XXCoder: might be ones with chinesium units on oz/in
04:46 PM Tom_L: roycroft, you can get 570 in/oz
04:48 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253223632606
04:48 PM Tom_L: i gave 99 for mine
04:49 PM Tom_L: those also come in 1/4" shaft
04:52 PM XXCoder: tom thats not bad
04:55 PM Tom_L: no i didn't think so at the time either
05:23 PM jfsimon1981: Good evening,
05:23 PM jfsimon1981: I try to connect to Linux cnc remotely, I presently run linuxcncrsh with config.ini
05:24 PM jfsimon1981: Is there a GUI client I can run remotly to control the now linuxcncrsh session ?
06:11 PM roycroft: i tried a couple different methods
06:11 PM roycroft: i found the most reliable is to install a vnc server on the linuxcnc machine and use that protocol
06:12 PM roycroft: one moment - i'll find the vnc server i used
06:12 PM roycroft: apt -y install tightvncserver
06:12 PM roycroft: that's what i did
06:12 PM roycroft: and it just worked
06:13 PM roycroft: this on debian 10.11, i believe
06:13 PM roycroft: but it should work similarly for any recent debian version
06:14 PM roycroft: and raspbian as well
06:15 PM solarwind: I've been doing a lot of oxy acetylene welding and I'm pretty good with it. Same with SMAW
06:16 PM solarwind: But for some reason, TIG has been difficult, only because it's hard to judge the arc length
06:16 PM solarwind: I know _what_ to do, but I can't seem to see the top of the puddle because the arc covers it
06:16 PM solarwind: So I either end up with too long an arc or dipping my tungsten
06:17 PM solarwind: I haven an Optrel PAPR helmet with auto shade adjustment (also has manual override) and I don't think I have it set too low
06:17 PM roycroft: practice, practice, practice
06:17 PM solarwind: I have it set to max (shade 12) but it still feels like the arc is hard to see
06:18 PM roycroft: gtaw is very fiddly, and very non-forgiving
06:18 PM solarwind: Well my only problem is seeing the arc length so I'm not sure how to judge that
06:18 PM roycroft: i have a nice gtaw welding machine, and i use it for a lot of stuff, but when i need something to look really nice i still hire it out
06:19 PM solarwind: Should I raise the torch up a bit every time I add filler to make space for the puddle to grow?
06:19 PM roycroft: fortunately, having the machine, and usually having plenty of good homebrew, i can often "hire it out" for not much more than some refreshing beverages
06:19 PM roycroft: i try to keep the arc as steady as i can
06:19 PM roycroft: i don't lift
06:20 PM roycroft: i move it along the weld seam, and dab the filler rod when needed
06:20 PM roycroft: and you know, i'm thinking i may subconsciously rotate the torch a bit
06:20 PM roycroft: twisting it forward, away from the puddle a wee bit as i add filler
06:20 PM roycroft: then twisting it back when i pull the filler away
06:21 PM roycroft: i definitely do not lift it
06:21 PM roycroft: but i may twist it a tiny bit
06:26 PM roycroft: i use the machine so seldom that every time i turn it on my first welds look like arse
06:26 PM roycroft: but then i get in a groove, and they start looking amateurish
06:26 PM roycroft: on rare occasions they actually look good
06:28 PM solarwind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNAAhwieNhU Jody is great
06:28 PM solarwind: While stick welding, I can see the arc just fine like in his videos
06:29 PM solarwind: When TIG welding, I can see it just fine in his videos, but for some reason not through my helmet
06:30 PM roycroft: maybe turn it down a bit, like to 11 or 10?
06:31 PM solarwind: Yeah that might be it. I initially thought it was too bright and may have been setting it too dark
06:33 PM roycroft: i have a jackson helmet
06:33 PM roycroft: i don't know how the numbers line up on that compared to others, but have mine set at 10 for gtaw
06:36 PM roycroft: so if anyone is around who orders linear motion stuff, i'm looking at this seller's rails and ball screw: https://www.ebay.com/itm/402754263172
06:37 PM roycroft: knowing i'll need to disassemble and clean all grit and swarf out before using them, does that listing look ok?
06:37 PM roycroft: i can't afford the high end stuff right now
06:40 PM Tom_L: they look like the standard Hywin stuff
06:41 PM roycroft: yes
06:41 PM roycroft: but genuine hiwin is about 4x as expensive
06:43 PM roycroft: and i'm still thinking that i don't need anti-backlash nuts for my z axis, as the axis is rather heavy, and gravity will be my anti-backlash compensation
06:45 PM * roycroft wonders if a spiral cutter would apply an upward force on the spindle
06:45 PM Tom_L: hmm
06:46 PM Tom_L: it would be spinning too fast probably
06:47 PM roycroft: well i'm looking at 11-12kg of weight on the moving part of the spindle assembly
06:48 PM roycroft: i should think that's enough that i don't need to worry about backlash
06:48 PM roycroft: the spindle should always be down as far as possible
06:52 PM roycroft: well i think i'll get that set and see how it works out
06:52 PM Tom_L: long as you're not drilling
06:53 PM Tom_L: or plunge cutting
06:53 PM roycroft: there should not be much, if any, of that
06:55 PM roycroft: if it turns out to be a problem, i'll be able to install a second nut that can adjust to eliminate backlash
06:57 PM roycroft: with a ball screw there should be very little backlash to begin with
06:57 PM Tom_L: yup
06:57 PM Tom_L: just between the bearing blocks
06:58 PM Tom_L: 'thrust' bearing
06:58 PM roycroft: this is a wood router primarily
06:59 PM roycroft: it can be a little sloppy and i'll still get the results i need
06:59 PM roycroft: and i'll learn a lot about building a cnc machine
06:59 PM roycroft: if i need it to be tighter i'll make adjustments later
07:53 PM Alicrow: Does anyone know if the Mesa 7i40 servo controller cards stack on each other? They say you can use one 50 pin connection for two cards, but they don't seem to sell a splitter or anything, so how do you connect them to the same 50 pin connector?
07:56 PM Tom_L: Alicrow, probably one ribbon per port
07:56 PM Tom_L: that's what it looks like
07:56 PM Tom_L: not chained like the old hdd or floppies were
07:57 PM Alicrow: But how do you go from one 50 pin connector on the FPGA card to 2 50 pin connectors, one per card?
07:57 PM Tom_L: you don't?
07:58 PM Tom_L: the main card would need 2 50 idc connectors
08:00 PM Alicrow: But the manual says "The 7I40 uses a four axis compatible controller pinout to allow two 7I40 cards to share a single four axis controller connector."
08:00 PM Alicrow: So how do they share the connector?
08:00 PM Tom_L: ask peter
08:02 PM roycroft: yay! my laptop is here!
08:02 PM roycroft: they could not repair it, so they sent a newer one
08:02 PM Tom_L: nice one
08:03 PM roycroft: they installed a brand new ssd, and the charge count on the battery is 28 cycles
08:03 PM roycroft: so it's pretty much a brand new machine
08:07 PM Alicrow: Okay, I think you're probably supposed to use something like this: https://www.amazon.com/PC-Accessories-Connectors-Inches-Internal/dp/B01EHB2YVK/ref=sr_1_3?crid=HLH3NEZQNTM6&keywords=50+pin+idc+y+adapter&qid=1641952104&sprefix=50+pin+idc+y+adapter%2Caps%2C59&sr=8-3
08:14 PM skunkwor1s: pcw-home: I have 250hz quadature coming out of the arduino for testing.. (waiting on componants to make the circuit) https://photos.app.goo.gl/91c4p3gJJLRAMJrf6
08:15 PM Tom_L: did that code snip help?
08:25 PM skunkwor1s: Have not looked at it yet. Just hacked it in the ide
08:34 PM roycroft: my time machine backup is restoring now, so the new laptop should work just like the old one, but not be dead
08:35 PM roycroft: i checked the time machine backup before i sent the old one off, but it's always a little stressful when starting the restore
08:35 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:35 PM roycroft: all my data are replicated on my imac and my nas, so i would not lose anything
08:36 PM roycroft: but the difference is spending 10 minutes partitioning the disk and starting the restore, then waiting a few hours vs. installing the os from scratch, installing all the apps, and doing all the configuration work, which is easily two days' work
08:36 PM roycroft: and i have a job on-site on friday
08:37 PM roycroft: so that would mean 16 hour days tomorrow and thursday, which i'm too old to have any interest in
08:39 PM roycroft: i leave that kind of craziness to the young whippersnappers who need to prove themselves :)
08:50 PM Alicrow-phone: Ordered the Mesa stuff. Now all I need is the contactors for the relay, power supplies, and miscellaneous cables and connectors.
08:51 PM Tom_L: what cards did you end up getting?
08:53 PM Tom_L: they may have ribbon if you need that
08:53 PM Tom_L: also din rail mounts for the cards if you're using them
08:59 PM Alicrow-phone: 5i24-25 (FPGA), 2x 7i40-hv (dual servo drivers), 2x 7i42TA (breakout/protection), plus four DIN rail clips and a ribbon cable.
09:00 PM Tom_L: 2 clips per card...
09:00 PM Tom_L: may wanna rethink that
09:00 PM Alicrow-phone: I plan to order cheaper ribbon cables off Amazon, but wanted at least one from them so I can ensure there's nothing special about them.
09:00 PM Tom_L: there isn't
09:00 PM Tom_L: 50pin?
09:00 PM Tom_L: i made my own
09:01 PM Tom_L: from scsi cables :)
09:01 PM roycroft: i always make my own ribbon cables as well
09:01 PM Tom_L: just not the direction of the plug
09:01 PM Tom_L: note
09:01 PM roycroft: and of all the data cable types that exist, ribbon cables are the least able to be "special"
09:03 PM Alicrow-phone: Each card needs two of the din rail adapters? That's annoying. Probably just 3D print some, then.
09:03 PM Tom_L: one on each end
09:04 PM Tom_L: i dunno if they're sold in sets or not
09:04 PM Alicrow-phone: I probably should have realized that before.
09:04 PM roycroft: they are just din rail clips with an aluminium bar attached, and they are designed to hold the board horizontally
09:04 PM Tom_L: who did you get them from? mesaus or mesanet?
09:05 PM roycroft: if you need to mount it vertically to save space, you'll have to fabricate your own
09:05 PM Alicrow-phone: Mesanet
09:05 PM Tom_L: just tell pcw-home if you wanna change it
09:45 PM Alicrow: Anyone know where to get a 60 volt power supply for the servo motors?
09:45 PM Tom_L: automation direct probably
09:47 PM Alicrow: Automation direct doesn't seem to have anything above 56 Volt
09:51 PM Tom_L: https://www.newark.com/c/transformers/toroidal-power-transformers?CMP=AFC-ECIA&secondary-voltages=30v-60v
09:52 PM Tom_L: dk or mouser probably have them too
09:54 PM skunkwor1s is now known as skunkworks
09:54 PM Alicrow: That's for AC. I need DC.
09:55 PM Tom_L: add a bridge and caps to it
09:55 PM Tom_L: calculate the ac/dc voltage difference
09:55 PM Tom_L: i forget the ratio
09:56 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Switching-Transformer-Monitoring-Industrial-Universal/dp/B07HNZW3YW/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=60v+power+supply&qid=1641958867&sr=8-5
09:57 PM skunkworks: sqr(2)?
09:57 PM Tom_L: dunno.. maybe 1.2x comes to mind
09:59 PM skunkworks: rms * 1.414
09:59 PM skunkworks: = dc
10:00 PM Alicrow: The reviews on that Amazon power supply are horrendous.
10:00 PM Tom_L: it was an example
10:01 PM Tom_L: use your google fingers
10:01 PM Tom_L: i'd use a toroid setup for that probably
10:01 PM Tom_L: you may have to put the pieces together
10:02 PM skunkworks: Funny how weird things like that stick in your head.
10:03 PM Tom_L: yeah we're all geeks
10:03 PM Alicrow: We've been looking for a while now for something that's not trash. Seems like 60V power supplies are not common. Can't find anything like a Meanwell.
10:03 PM skunkworks: why 60?
10:03 PM Alicrow: So we may need to go with piecing the components together, I guess.
10:03 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu2.jpg
10:03 PM Tom_L: i rolled my own
10:04 PM Alicrow: Our servos take 60 Volts.
10:04 PM Tom_L: 48v though
10:04 PM skunkworks: doesn't mean you can't go higher...
10:04 PM skunkworks: can you find something a bit higher you like?
10:04 PM skunkworks: between say 60 and 100?
10:05 PM Tom_L: jt used a 70v toroid setup but i think he's using steppers
10:05 PM Alicrow: 48 Volts seems to be the highest that's easy to find.
10:05 PM Tom_L: had centertaps for lower voltages
10:05 PM Tom_L: i forgot where he got his but i thought it was automation direct
10:06 PM skunkworks: how many kva?
10:08 PM Tom_L: you could ask him tomorrow am
10:12 PM skunkworks: transformers are expensive...
10:12 PM skunkworks: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hammond-Manufacturing/1182T60?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtXHE36kCvv3zir86Fkt9nNYagRp9GeN5U%3D
10:24 PM Alicrow-phone: Or maybe a lower voltage power supply and a step up converter.
10:25 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, probably why everybody uses switchers
10:26 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:36 PM roycroft: so the anti-vaxxers have a new covid cure - drinking their own pee
10:37 PM Tom_L: i thought that was for hair growth?
10:37 PM Tom_L: :)
10:37 PM XXCoder: full of piss, whoever come up on that
10:37 PM XXCoder: in least its not eat #2
10:37 PM roycroft: maybe it serves two purposes
10:37 PM Tom_L: and i just thought they were full of shit
10:37 PM roycroft: cure baldness and covid at the same time
10:38 PM Tom_L: any symptoms with any of your boosters?
10:39 PM roycroft: yes
10:39 PM Tom_L: tired..
10:39 PM XXCoder: i was bit weak and sick and headachy for 2-3 days but minor
10:39 PM roycroft: i've been barred from going to the office while my boss is there
10:39 PM XXCoder: 2nd shot was far worse
10:39 PM roycroft: but that's a symptom of my boss, not me, i guess :)
10:39 PM XXCoder: boss was afraid to be infected with vax?
10:40 PM roycroft: he's afraid of the government spy chip
10:40 PM Tom_L: and he should be..
10:40 PM roycroft: anyway
10:40 PM Tom_L: :)
10:40 PM XXCoder: why? 5g benefits is great
10:40 PM roycroft: i hardly felt the first jab at all
10:40 PM roycroft: the second and third, i was fatigued the next day
10:40 PM roycroft: but that was it
10:40 PM Tom_L: maderna?
10:40 PM XXCoder: modernia for me
10:41 PM Tom_L: sp
11:55 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +vvv by strontium.libera.chat
11:55 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by strontium.libera.chat
11:55 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by strontium.libera.chat
11:56 PM javabean_ is now known as Javabean