#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 09 2022

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:01 AM CaptHindsight[m]: we get more cloudbursts and downbursts around here
02:17 AM Deejay: moin
02:22 AM t4nk_freenode: 'lo_bro
02:23 AM Deejay: yo bro :)
04:16 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:03 AM thepacket: i looked into a certain company in Germany and sent them an email with a list of questions but didn't respond. I want to believe that it's due to vacation after NYE and looked around in reddit and it seems that a lot of people don't have a good experience with support so I want to keep looking just in case
05:07 AM Kevin`: get something with an induction or synchronous motor so you can accurately control the speed. the cheapest devices have open loop dc spindles which is very difficult to use with metal
05:10 AM Kevin`: (or a servoed dc motor, but that's an unlikely configuration)
05:13 AM thepacket: Hi Kevin, thanks for the info. Can you recommend a few brands to look further into? It seems that most of the brands that I am looking at for desktop sized cnc are for softer materials like wood.
05:16 AM Kevin`: the one I have is ok, but it's average chinese stuff. i'll link it anyway. https://www.omiocnc.com/products/x6-2200l-usb.html
05:17 AM Kevin`: I used a completely different controller with that, but kept the vfd and stepper drivers, no problems with those
05:19 AM thepacket: looks good. i think i've seen this one in a silencing box video
05:24 AM Kevin`: be aware, the high speed spindle like that has, produces power proportional to how fast it's running. you don't get the full 2kw at 6000rpm. makes cutting some materials "interesting" since you have to run at quite aggressive feeds. for aluminum/wood/plastic it's not too bad, but the slow geared spindle common on "mill" optimized designs is easier to use
05:25 AM Kevin`: can't even spin it up below about 1000rpm
05:29 AM Kevin`: is silencing box a person? or just a coincidence in a video about something
05:37 AM thepacket: silencing box as in an enclosure to make things a bit more quiet
06:10 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:23 AM Tom_L: morning
07:03 AM JT-Cave: morning
07:16 AM enleth: Kevin`: note that the above means it might make more sense long-term to have two separate spindles that can be swapped as needed, as opposed to trying to find a spindle that does both high and low speeds - and is mediocre at both
07:17 AM enleth: Kevin`: look into how the machine you buy mounts the spindle
07:17 AM enleth: Kevin`: luckily, this is usually easy to hack and adapt
08:14 AM Alicrow-phone: Yeah, typically for metal you want a LOT slower than for wood.
08:43 AM Alicrow-phone: What kind of machines are y'all running, anyway?
09:00 AM enleth: thepacket: ah, actually the above was for you, not for Kevin`
09:14 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:24 AM JT-Cave: Gigabyte B250M-DS3H-CF
09:30 AM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, so the thing I'm trying to solve is what I need to "string" as a command to get PIO to compile for the blackpill
10:00 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, what's that board for?
10:04 AM JT-Cave: it's this machine I'm running lol
10:04 AM JT-Cave: this pc
10:05 AM Tom_L: didn't know if it was a good lcnc candidate
10:07 AM Tom_L: hmm i've got the B250M-DS3H
10:07 AM Tom_L: wonder what the -CF adds
10:10 AM JT-Shop: I'm running debian 11 on it with rt preempt
10:10 AM JT-Shop: windy as heck here'
10:10 AM Tom_L: it was windy last evening now it's cold
10:11 AM Tom_L: was warm enough to rinse off the car in the drive yesterday
10:11 AM Tom_L: 30F currently
10:12 AM Tom_L: you get a storm yesterday?
10:12 AM Tom_L: seemed to affect your sat...
10:26 AM JT-Shop: rained pretty hard all day and into the night
10:26 AM Tom_L: i glanced at the radar and figured it was
10:28 AM JT-Shop: gotta turn on the chicken heaters again tonight going to be 20°F tonight and Monday night
10:31 AM Tom_L: you get the door fixed?
10:34 AM JT-Cave: no, rained all day yesterday anyway I have an outer door I can close by hand
10:39 AM unterhaus: we have a thick layer of ice on the driveway. Hoping the cold will hold off until I can remove it
10:41 AM unterhaus: forecast looks good for that, should be above freezing until dinnertime at least
11:10 AM Alicrow-phone: I meant what kind of cnc machine. Router? Mill? Lathe?
11:21 AM JT-Cave: I knew what you meant :) VMC, chucker lathe, knee mill and plasma
11:27 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, https://ibb.co/S7jCyF2
11:38 AM Alicrow-phone: Nice
11:39 AM Alicrow-phone: We're currently working on our first real CNC machine; an old Hurco KM-I (Bridgeport Series 1 with ball screws).
11:51 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, not bad
11:51 AM Rab: This thing's going to go for virtually free to whoever can load it: https://swicoauctions.com/online/26/item/97600
11:52 AM Rab: I saw it listed in December too, I guess nobody bit. Too bad they put it outside.
12:02 PM Tom_L: didn't do the rails any good
12:16 PM roycroft: it looks like mouser are trying to emulate amazon
12:16 PM roycroft: i ordered some small indicator lamps a while back, and they were short one, so they backordered it
12:17 PM roycroft: it just arrived, fedex sunday delivery, in a ginormous box that was big enough for a television
12:17 PM roycroft: this for a $1.30 part
12:19 PM roycroft: oh well, my cat will have a nice box to play in for a while, so i can thank mouser for some free cat entertainment
12:19 PM Tom_L: kill a tree, save an order
12:49 PM CaptHindsight[m]: small boxes get lost more often than larger
12:51 PM CaptHindsight[m]: and if all you have are large boxes every part is a hammer or nail or something something
12:53 PM Rab: Out of about four Mouser orders in the last several weeks, two have been seriously screwed up requiring an RMA. Not large or complicated orders, either. It's new to my experience.
12:56 PM Rab: One was just a single ($60 Honeywell) toggle switch. They sent me qty/50 of some RF cable assembly, about $700 worth of product. The label on the bag showed somebody else's invoice number; it wasn't just sitting inventory.
12:58 PM Tom_L: inexperienced help
12:58 PM Rab: I looked up the cable part and it was completely out of stock, new parts expected in four months. So I spent some time with Mouser trying to make sure it got back to the right customer, 'cause they would have been really screwed.
01:01 PM CaptHindsight[m]: does Mouser still ship from Texas?
01:01 PM Rab: The other mixup was qty/25 electrolytic caps instead of qty/25 BNC adapters. No identifying information on the caps except for the values; Mouser gave me a label and I shipped them back, but they probably had to be tossed.
01:01 PM Rab: Yeah, this is all from their Mansfield TX warehouse.
01:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: likely due to salary shortages
01:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: or in upside down land, job surplus issues
01:03 PM Rab: Mouser (and, to a lesser extent, Digi-Key) were really hurt by Covid last winter (and probably the TX snowpocalypse). Huge backlog of orders, everybody out sick on both warehouse and sales sides, people quitting. I wasn't sure they were going to make it.
01:04 PM Rab: Subsequently they had a big hiring push, and I believe there was mention of high starting offers.
01:04 PM CaptHindsight[m]: good
01:05 PM Rab: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/something-is-very-wrong-with-mouser/msg3471130
01:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: another option is buying mystery parts from China and hoping they arrive and are within spec
01:06 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 404 ^^
01:07 PM Rab: Sorry, I tried to pare some junk off the URL: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/something-is-very-wrong-with-mouser/
01:08 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hah and the ip for the VPN I'm on has been banned from that site, thanks for trying
01:09 PM Rab: Now we know who's been trolling EEVBlog.
01:09 PM Rab: https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/03/04/now-hiring-mouser-electronics-hiring-for-dozens-of-positions/
01:10 PM Rab: "Competitive pay"
01:11 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Parent organizations: TTI, Inc., Berkshire Hathaway
01:11 PM Rab: I don't recommend even hobbyists buy mystery China parts. Although these days, I guess the choice is between getting anything out the door or going out of business...
01:12 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://careers.mouser.com/
01:13 PM CaptHindsight[m]: https://careers.mouser.com/jobs/13051?lang=en-us
01:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Warehouse Order Pulling Associate
01:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: "Able to maneuver in aisles 36" wide, stand, walk, bend, reach, twist, grasp, push and pull for 10- 12 hours"
01:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 10-12 hour shifts!
01:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: Contributes to ongoing success of the entire warehouse team by willingly accepting and embracing “other duties as required” along with willingness to help the department as a whole
01:18 PM CaptHindsight[m]: why do I suddenly picture a toilet plunger or mop
01:19 PM Rab: I don't see anything about piss testing, so it's not completely undignified.
01:20 PM unterhaus: that eevblog thread was when Texas was shut down last winter
01:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: they don't respond well if you ask what drugs they find acceptable
01:21 PM unterhaus: reminds me of the forum posts complaining about my mom's business when she was in the hospital for bypass surgery
01:21 PM unterhaus: drug testing basically only catches mj, unless you really party it up the night before
01:22 PM unterhaus: I wonder if they really bother to test for other stuff
01:22 PM unterhaus: what's going to happen to those testing companies once mj is fully legal
01:23 PM Rab: An elderly friend of mine had no heat or power, almost froze to death, and was completely outraged that his Mouser orders weren't arriving deterministically. ;)
01:24 PM Rab: Electronics is serious business.
01:25 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unterhaus: so they expect you to work a 10-12 hour shift and not medicate yourself when you are off work?
01:30 PM Alicrow-phone: It's crazy how cheap big machines like that go for, because nobody can load them.
02:40 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-gallery.xhtml
03:11 PM jesseg_ is now known as jesseg
03:23 PM _unreal_: ok the servo controller is now 99% put back together on its new mount system.
03:24 PM _unreal_: I only have a few more aspects of wiring left to go and I can "power" it on
03:25 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/elevated-dust-bath/edb-13.jpg
03:25 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/elevated-dust-bath/edb-14.jpg
03:25 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/elevated-dust-bath/edb-15.jpg
03:25 PM JT-Shop: just need to apply a couple of coats of T&T varnish oil and it's ready for chicken poop
03:43 PM Tom_L: sure that's ok for your chickens?
03:45 PM Tom_L: i see now what the slots were for
03:47 PM XXCoder: cool
03:47 PM XXCoder: very nice worl
03:47 PM Tom_L: he fell off the earth again
03:48 PM XXCoder: seems so
04:03 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:18 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:18 PM roycroft: well that was productive
04:18 PM roycroft: i stripped a dozen servers down and donated them to st vincent de paul, and i disassembled 60 hard drives
04:18 PM roycroft: my piles are getting smaller :)
04:18 PM XXCoder: nice
04:22 PM roycroft: yeah
04:23 PM roycroft: and i just sold a bunch of other servers - they'll be going away soon
04:25 PM JT-Cave: roycroft, did you see the elevated dust bath?
04:26 PM XXCoder: jt saw it, its nice
04:27 PM XXCoder: so bin will have some dust in it?
04:28 PM XXCoder: how deep will it be?
04:28 PM XXCoder: never saw a chicken dust bath before heh
04:28 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i see now what the slots were for
04:28 PM roycroft: yeah, that turned out nice, jt-cave
04:29 PM roycroft: perhaps a bit fancy for chickens
04:29 PM roycroft: i'm fairly certain they are not able to appreciate the joinery
04:33 PM roycroft: i should get some cad work done
04:33 PM roycroft: i am slowly winning
04:33 PM roycroft: it used to take me 10 times as long to do something in solidworks than it would take me to draw with autocad
04:33 PM roycroft: now it only takes me 9-1/2 times as long
04:36 PM Tom_L: it was good for me to take a peek at sw again
04:37 PM Tom_L: i'll never be as good with it as catia
04:38 PM Tom_L: roycroft, can you do solid models in acad as quick?
04:39 PM roycroft: no, i've hardly ever done any 3d modeling with autocad
04:39 PM roycroft: but i can draw a part with the standard 3 2d views 10x really fast in autocad
04:40 PM roycroft: that i can't do the 3d modeling is why i'm using solidworks
04:40 PM Tom_L: will it generate the standard views for you?
04:40 PM roycroft: it just takes a while to learn it
04:40 PM roycroft: no
04:40 PM roycroft: i have to draw them separately
04:40 PM roycroft: but i can still do that faster than working in solidworks at the moment
04:40 PM Tom_L: catia will pull them from the model
04:40 PM roycroft: oh, solidworks will do that, yes
04:40 PM Tom_L: you still have to dimension them
04:40 PM roycroft: i thought you were talking about autocad
04:41 PM Tom_L: i was
04:41 PM roycroft: sw does it, and has an autodimension function
04:41 PM roycroft: which i haven't gotten to work well yet, but i blame that on me
04:41 PM roycroft: part of the learning curve is figuring out efficient workflows
04:41 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure it gets all the critical dimensions
04:42 PM Tom_L: with exploded views where needed
04:42 PM roycroft: and a *big* change i've made is that i'm not locating holes for fasteners any more as i make the part drawings
04:42 PM roycroft: i just make the solids, then do the assemblies
04:42 PM Tom_L: err sectional views i should say i guess
04:43 PM roycroft: and once i finish tweaking the parts to fit together well, and an assembly is otherwise finished, then i go back and start adding fastener holes to the parts
04:44 PM roycroft: in autocad, if i change the thickness of a part from 9mm to 12mm it's trivial to recenter the bolt holes
04:44 PM roycroft: in sw i've found that to be tedious
04:44 PM roycroft: but there are probably easier ways that i haven't figured out yet
04:44 PM Tom_L: it depends how you constrain them
04:45 PM roycroft: yeah, and i have not figured out the best ways to do that in sw yet
04:45 PM _unreal_: so I'm having a hard time trying to turn on the PSU of the servo setup
04:45 PM Kevin`: efficient SW is all about choosing the correct things to define relationships from. if you do it right, stuff like that happens automatically
04:45 PM _unreal_: the mains relay just starts vibraiting
04:45 PM JT-MachineShop: the jointery was more for my benefit
04:46 PM roycroft: anyway, my next step is figuring out if my stepper motor for my z axis is powerful enough, now that i know the weight of the moving parts
04:46 PM _unreal_: I have a M0c3041 TRIAC controller that drives the relay. the relay has a 120vac coil..
04:46 PM roycroft: yes, kevin`, i'm getting that
04:46 PM roycroft: but i haven't mastered doing the right constraints yet
04:46 PM Kevin`: eg, if you want a hole halfway between two things, put it at the midpoint of a line between the things, not dimensioned with a number that's half of the length
04:46 PM roycroft: i have sw 2008, which we bought in late 2007
04:47 PM _unreal_: I'm wondering if the triac chip is bad?
04:47 PM roycroft: i took one sw class right after we bought it
04:47 PM roycroft: i used it for a few simple parts back then
04:47 PM _unreal_: I have replacements "SOMEWHERE"
04:47 PM Tom_L: if i have a lot of holes etc i may even use a function to define one and copy that so if i change one they all change
04:47 PM roycroft: then i did not use it much until recently, when i decided it was time to start using it instead of acad
04:47 PM _unreal_: the other aspect is that there are two main power switches. one is over all MAINS power....
04:47 PM roycroft: er, sorry
04:47 PM roycroft: that was acad 2008 that we bought in late 2007
04:48 PM _unreal_: the other is a low voltage switch that drives that triac
04:48 PM roycroft: the solidworks we bought was 2012, which we bought around 2012
04:48 PM _unreal_: I'm not getting a solid 5v from the switching PSU
04:48 PM roycroft: but still, it's been almost a decade since i used it much
04:48 PM _unreal_: i'm getting like 4.8v
04:48 PM _unreal_: so I'm wondering if the switching PSU is messed up as well
04:49 PM _unreal_: sadly I have no easy means of testing the relay
04:52 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, what's the smps drop to when connected to the relay?
04:57 PM _unreal_: :/ thats the funny thing
04:57 PM _unreal_: I have to bypass the safety features to measure that
04:58 PM _unreal_: the case is setup in a way that you have to close the door
04:58 PM _unreal_: the big outside MAINS switch is not connected to the post which is a special rack mount device
04:59 PM _unreal_: the only way to turn it is with the switch from the outisde because it connects
04:59 PM _unreal_: to the vertical post and unlocks it
04:59 PM _unreal_: so I have no way of turning on the power with out closing the door
04:59 PM _unreal_: :/
04:59 PM _unreal_: I had it bypassed when I was building it originally
05:01 PM _unreal_: I may have to....
05:03 PM _unreal_: I have a few choices. first and smartest is to just replace the PSU with an other one to give a 5v supply that I trust to drive that chip.
05:03 PM _unreal_: if that does not work. then I need to find my extras IF I can find them.....
05:03 PM _unreal_: and drop in a new chip
05:04 PM _unreal_: :/
06:16 PM _unreal_: well I guess the PSU can sit on the sideline for a while
06:17 PM _unreal_: taken the kid to see spiderman
06:17 PM _unreal_: would be nice to just get it to power on
06:17 PM _unreal_: then I could just start serial testing the the motor conrollers and see if they respond or not
06:18 PM _unreal_: if I get a SERIAL HUD that will nice
06:18 PM _unreal_: but I also need to probe around check voltages. see if anything is acting weak or funny?
07:40 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:26 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:50 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:30 PM _unreal_: so that was interesting. my daughter caught a silverfish
09:31 PM _unreal_: and she asked me what it was... so I told her the truth..... "you have heard of the golden goose right?" she said yes. well the golden goose made golden eggs, thats the silver fish it deals with silver
09:31 PM _unreal_: hehe
09:32 PM _unreal_: 12 YO.... I got a what?? !!!! REALLY??? wait a minute
09:35 PM _unreal_: sigh... and now she is going to try to make it a pet with a bit of cereal
09:35 PM _unreal_: some good news I just found my extra triac control chips. swapping one of those into the PSU see if that helps
09:49 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: You do realize that you're now going to have to answer some really embarassing questions when she starts querying you about Blattidae... ;D
09:49 PM _unreal_: ?
09:49 PM _unreal_: blattidae?
09:49 PM Bleepshop: Cockroaches... LOL
09:49 PM _unreal_: I have no idea what that is/means
09:50 PM _unreal_: florida is FULL of super sized cockroaches. they are also called "palmetto" bugs
09:50 PM _unreal_: like 1.5" long
09:51 PM Bleepshop: Years ago I wanted to try and mutate domestic roaches where they ended up with brightly colored shells. Blattidae Psychadelis. :D
09:53 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Yeah, I lived on the Gulf Coast for years. It's fun to watch people from the North get their first taste of real, in your face nature. LOL
09:54 PM Bleepshop: "No, That's a small one. The big ones are why there's no VW Beetles left in the area. ;D
09:54 PM roycroft: we find "florida man" more shocking than giant cockroaches :)
09:55 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:55 PM Tom_L: sw froze so i gave up for the evening
09:57 PM * Bleepshop is still waiting for the prophesied roach to eat Cincinnati...
09:57 PM roycroft: i am probably done with sw for the evening as well
09:57 PM roycroft: i spent too much time in the office today
09:58 PM Bleepshop: We finally had a day with no snow, no wind and no drama where I managed to move the flat stock out of the shop and swap it for the cabinets that were in storage.
09:59 PM roycroft: it wsa foggy here today, and cool
09:59 PM roycroft: but not cold and not rainy
09:59 PM roycroft: it got up to 16 degrees on friday
09:59 PM Bleepshop: No rain, no fog, nice and sunny all afternoon even though it never got >42
09:59 PM roycroft: but today it was more like 7 or 8
10:00 PM roycroft: pretty seasonable
10:00 PM Tom_L: it was strange the other day.. it was wetter under the covered patio than the driveway
10:00 PM Tom_L: never seen that before there
10:00 PM roycroft: tom_l: one time a few years ago it snowed in my back yard enough to accumulate but not a single flake fell in the front yard
10:02 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: It did that the other night here... ~100'x100' patch of snow in the front yard just downwind of the shop stovepipe and the dryer vent. LOL
10:05 PM _unreal_: What?? bob saget died
10:10 PM Bleepshop: Gonna probably be a lot of Hollywood keel over before long.
10:13 PM roycroft: boomers, generally