Jan 07 2022
01:48 AM randy: morning
02:25 AM Deejay: moin
05:02 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:06 AM Tom_L: morning
05:07 AM Tom_L: 10°F
06:19 AM t4nk_freenode: howdy
06:58 AM XXCoder: interesting https://youtu.be/2ewSbI52ICc
06:58 AM XXCoder: edm by 3d printer
06:58 AM XXCoder: he 3d printed a main body
07:06 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
07:26 AM JT-Cave: 16°F never made it to the forecasted 8°F
07:28 AM Tom_L: still at 10°F here
07:33 AM JT-Cave: too many thumbs in that video for me to watch
07:54 AM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
08:27 AM JT-Cave: today's project making lock miter joints on the router for the elevated dust bath legs
08:33 AM unterhausen: today's first project is to see if I can get the terminals on the dishwasher to hold the wires
08:33 AM unterhausen: looks like it should be idiot proof, but it's the opposite
11:18 AM Alicrow-phone: Does anyone know a good source for three-phase reversible contactors for the spindle?
11:26 AM JT-Cave: Automation Direct
11:27 AM roycroft: they have good stuff
11:27 AM Alicrow-phone: Ah, there we go. Webchat on phone disconnects whenever I move away from the page, which is a big issue for IRC since it means I can't see responses.
11:27 AM roycroft: oh, and you left before you saw that, alicrow-phone
11:27 AM roycroft: jt suggested automation direct
11:36 AM Alicrow-phone: Can't seem to find all-in-one reversing contactors there, but they have regular contactors and some "reversing connection kits" that consist of some metal bars. So do I just buy two contactors and a compatible kit? Do those bars actually ensure the relays won't both be activated at the same time?
11:37 AM Alicrow-phone: Oh, wait, they have mechanical interlock kits, too. Those should do the trick.
11:39 AM roguish[m]: anyone have experience with refrigerators that don't want to get cold????????
11:44 AM Alicrow-phone: Thanks!
11:45 AM JT-MachineShop: aye
11:46 AM roycroft: yes,
11:47 AM roycroft: i have experience with refrigerators that don't want to get cold
11:47 AM roycroft: i call st vincent depaul
11:47 AM roycroft: they bring a truck over and haul it away
11:47 AM roycroft: and then i get another
11:47 AM roycroft: with modern refrigerators the cost of repair almost always exceeds the cost of replacement
11:47 AM roguish[m]: just looked up the model repair parts. compressor is near $700
11:48 AM roguish[m]: it's 24 years old
11:48 AM roycroft: that's a good, long life in modern terms
11:48 AM roycroft: for an early model refrigerator, 24 years is almost new
11:49 AM roguish[m]: heading out to the 2 local appliance shops in a few minutes....
11:49 AM JT-MachineShop: is it frozen in the freezer section?
11:49 AM roycroft: they tend to last 10-15 years at most thee days
11:49 AM roycroft: these
11:49 AM JT-MachineShop: is the radiator clean
11:49 AM roguish[m]: JT-MachineShop: barely, and warming ....
11:49 AM JT-MachineShop: I have one that's 35 years old at least
11:49 AM roguish[m]: just started acting up.
11:50 AM JT-MachineShop: my last on acted up all the time had to take the cover off the freezer side and thaw it out many times
11:50 AM JT-MachineShop: side by side
11:50 AM roycroft: i have several, because of my brewing hobby, so i probably have a better sense of how long they last than the average person
11:50 AM * JT-MachineShop goes to menards
11:50 AM roguish[m]: i figure that 24 years is a pretty good run.
11:51 AM roycroft: i haven't gone to menard's in 20+ years
11:51 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:51 AM roycroft: i broke up with my gf from north dakota in 2001, and haven't been within 2000km of a menard's since then
11:53 AM roguish[m]: I just don't want to dump lots of money on something that is too old, and will likely act out again....
11:53 AM roguish[m]: did that with my last truck.
11:54 AM roycroft: i'm convinced that modern appliances are designed to fail a lot sooner than they used to
11:55 AM roycroft: and that even if you decide to repair one, another component will likely fail shortly thereafter
11:57 AM roycroft: as well, modern refrigerators are generally more energy efficient than older ones, so if you replace it you'll probably save on operational cost
11:57 AM roycroft: plus you'll have the opportunity to add features such as an ice maker or in-door water dispenser if you wish, which your older model may not have
11:58 AM roycroft: i'd probably avoid getting one that keeps track of how many eggs you have and automatically reorders when you run low, though
11:58 AM roguish[m]: been online shoppping a lot.
11:58 AM * roycroft has no internet-connected appliances and is happy with that
11:59 AM roguish[m]: totally agree.
11:59 AM roycroft: i would not mind a temperature sensor in a refrigerator and a mechanism to send me an email if it gets out of range
11:59 AM roycroft: but that is someting i would add, and i would maintain
12:00 PM roycroft: i generally do close to that anyway - for my brewing refrigerators i bypass the built-in temperature controller and add my own probes and pid
12:00 PM roycroft: i need to keep it more constant and accurate for brewing than is needed for food storage
12:01 PM roycroft: and in my fermentor refrigerators i put the temperature probes in the beer itself, and don't care about the ambient temperature so much
12:07 PM roycroft: i needed to replace my kitchen refrigerator a long time ago, and remembered that my grandmother had one with the freezer section down by the floor, and how much she liked that
12:07 PM roycroft: i found one that was configured that way, and i really lovedit
12:08 PM roycroft: the refrigerator section seemed so much roomier and easier to access
12:08 PM roycroft: it was probably more efficient too, since the coldest part was on the bottom
12:09 PM roycroft: that one failed after about 15 years, and i could not find another that fit in my kitchen with that layout, so i ended up with a side by side for my current one, and i seriously dislike it
12:09 PM roycroft: but i'm not going to replace it until it dies
12:28 PM Alicrow-phone: A lot of Internet-connected things are just stupid, like the treadmill we have. Every time we turn it on, have to tell it like three times to continue without an Internet connection or signing in to iFit.
12:33 PM Alicrow-phone: But we do have Lutron smart lighting, just so that we can have the controls in more convenient places.
12:51 PM JT-Shop: roguish[m], I really like the LG refrigerator we got last year
12:51 PM JT-Shop: no 1/4" MDF so on to plan 9
12:59 PM mrec_: did anyone work with tool wear and linux cnc?
02:03 PM JT-Shop: ours is a lower freezer with side by side and door in door and we love it
02:03 PM JT-Shop: 1/4" shims are done now for a test cut
02:10 PM roycroft: yeah, i don't understand why the lower freezer models are not the most popular
02:10 PM roycroft: the only drawback i can think of with them is that if you have a three-year-old, it's harder to keep the popsicles secure
02:11 PM Tom_L: or a 60ish old ;)
02:13 PM roycroft: that too
02:27 PM roguish[m]: ok, back from refer hunting
02:32 PM roycroft: did you bag a good one?
02:33 PM roguish[m]: toooo much money. but think I did ok. found a floor model.
02:33 PM roguish[m]: gets delivered tomorrow
02:39 PM roguish[m]: JT-Shop: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/07/dining/skillet-turkey-chili.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage§ion=Food
02:45 PM roycroft: the pandemic + the tariffs = too much money for appliances
02:46 PM roycroft: i've cut back on brewing, and when i had my primary fermenting refrigerator die on me last summer i did some price checking, then decided to ferment in my lagering freezer instead of replacing the refrigerator
02:46 PM roycroft: that also gave me some badly needed floorspace
02:46 PM roycroft: i like solving mulitple problems by not spending money
02:46 PM roguish[m]: might have purchased a different one, but had to be in stock. need now, not in 6 months
02:47 PM roycroft: yeah, when the fridge dies, you need a new one
02:47 PM roycroft: unless you live in an area where you have some unheated space that hovers around refrigeration temperature, but even then, you can't count on that lasting for very long
02:48 PM roguish[m]: yeah, not here....
03:01 PM roycroft: when my last kitchen refrigerator died i was fortunate
03:01 PM roycroft: i was not lagering much, so my lagering freezer was mostly empty
03:01 PM roycroft: i was able to move all my on-tap beer from the kegerator to the lagering freezer
03:02 PM roycroft: and then i moved most of the food from the kitchen refrigerator to the kegerator
03:02 PM roycroft: it took two weeks to get my new refrigerator delivered, but i was able to survive ok
03:02 PM roguish[m]: my neighbor has some room in one of her refers, so I shouldn't lose anything..... except of course the dollars.
03:02 PM roycroft: the only hardship was that i had to use a picnic tap to pour beer for two weeks, instead of being able to just pull the tap handle
03:03 PM roycroft: you can also look at this as an opportunity to clean out the fridge really well
03:03 PM roguish[m]: that too
03:06 PM Alicrow-phone: We have a side-by-side and a chest freezer, plus an older side-by-side in the basement that we pretty much just keep Diet Mountain Dew in, and some filtered water.
03:08 PM Alicrow-phone: I think when the side-by-side in the kitchen eventually dies, we might just replace it with a standalone fridge, because we need more fridge space.
03:14 PM roguish[m]: I don't really have room for a 2nd refer, and the electricity is way too expensive to justify one
03:16 PM * JT-Shop gives up on the Infinity lock miter bit...
03:25 PM roycroft: if you have a chest freezer i think getting a standalone refrigerator makes a lot of sense
03:25 PM roycroft: those are tricky to set up, jt-shop
03:25 PM roycroft: i used to use one a lot
03:25 PM roycroft: i found a realy simple way to get the setup dead on accurate
03:26 PM roycroft: let me see if i can find the document
03:27 PM roycroft: i have two procedures
03:28 PM roycroft: one involves dial calipers, calculations, and a fence that can be micro-adusted by thousandths
03:28 PM roycroft: the other, which i think is what i've used the most, requires fairly careful setup and a couple test cuts
03:30 PM roycroft: the simpler one is from rocker, but i can't find it on there website any more
03:30 PM roycroft: let me post it on mine
03:31 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, the pins are too fat for the slots so the parts won't fully mate
03:31 PM roycroft: oh
03:31 PM roycroft: so it's not a setup issue
03:32 PM roycroft: it's a sizing issue
03:32 PM JT-Shop: correct
03:32 PM roycroft: i have two lock miter cutters
03:32 PM roycroft: a small one and a large one
03:32 PM JT-Shop: same
03:32 PM roycroft: sounds like you need to get a small one :)
03:32 PM roycroft: oh
03:32 PM roycroft: so smaller than that
03:32 PM roycroft: then giving up is the correct option :)
03:32 PM JT-Shop: it's just not made correctly
03:33 PM roycroft: oh, the cutter is defective
03:33 PM roycroft: i see
03:33 PM roycroft: then giving up *really* is the option
03:33 PM roycroft: unless you want to have at it with a grinder
03:33 PM JT-Shop: skipping to the next plan and using drawer type of lock miter joints on the table saw
03:33 PM roycroft: or make adjustments with the table saw
03:33 PM JT-Shop: I could not hurt it lol
03:34 PM roycroft: yeah, those work fine
03:34 PM roycroft: i like box joint or dovetail joints for drawer fronts, but for shop cabinets i use table saw lock joints all the time
03:36 PM roycroft: sliding dovetails are nice for drawer backs, but similarly, for shop cabinets, dadoes and staples work fine
03:39 PM JT-Shop: this is for the legs of the elevated dust bath
03:44 PM roycroft: if they are big enough, mitered corners with biscuits would work
03:44 PM Tom_L: sounds yummy
03:44 PM roycroft: as long as the glue is not lumpy
04:05 PM robin_sz: Well, as far as I can work out Mach4 doesn't have a Mesa plugin yet
04:06 PM robin_sz: it has Galil, but not Mesa
04:06 PM roycroft: but linuxcnc does!
04:07 PM * roycroft is still master of the obvious
04:09 PM JT-Shop: mach can't run a mesa card... it's windblows
04:09 PM robin_sz: yeah, but I just need to solve this pendant problem
04:10 PM robin_sz: It's nearly unuseable as it stands
04:11 PM robin_sz: which is wierd, as I would have thought "small mill with steppers and a Mesa card" was kinda the core use case for Linux, with the most commonly available mpg out there
04:12 PM robin_sz: from what I can work out from what people have said, it's deep in the xhc-hb04 driver, but I don't understand the architecture deep enough to work it out.
04:16 PM robin_sz: so does anyone have any ideas?
04:17 PM robin_sz: or could someone post it on the forum for me?
04:20 PM _unreal_: hello
04:41 PM JT-Shop: lock miter dado joints are all done and fit perfectly
04:42 PM JT-Shop: robin_sz, not sure how many use a wireless pendant, I know I never would use one on a CNC machine
04:44 PM roycroft: yeah, that's similar to my decision not to use x forwarding to run linuxcnc on a laptop
04:44 PM roycroft: if the connction goes down you're hosed
04:44 PM roycroft: vnc is a lot better
04:44 PM DaViruz: i tried a xb04 with a linuxcnc waterjet once. using it encoder-precise worked quite poorly with a lot of lag
04:44 PM DaViruz: using it in velocity mode worked somewhat decently
04:44 PM roycroft: just as a wired pendant would be a lot better than wireless, in my view
04:46 PM roycroft: you're using a battery-operated device, where batteries can fail, and asking it communicate wirelessly with an rfi generator
04:47 PM JT-Shop: just need to trim to length the legs and layout the curve to remove the bulk of the leg
04:47 PM JT-Shop: I guess pocket screws to fasten them to the top is in order...
04:48 PM * JT-Shop ponders that while finishing up the legs
04:55 PM roycroft: my cat is not prone to borrowing things from my office to play with, but i have been searching high and low for a couple parts for my new hot end that were not in the box when i took it out to the electronics bench yesterday
04:56 PM roycroft: i'm beginning to suspect she decided they are a play toy
04:56 PM roycroft: either that or i'm even more senile than i thought
04:56 PM roycroft: which is a distinct possibility
05:09 PM robin_sz: DaViruz, I'll try that, see if it improves
05:12 PM robin_sz: @JT-Shop, thousands of these are sold and work just fine, it works fine on the router, so somewhere there has been a change that has screwed it
05:15 PM robin_sz: I can imagine it might crap out on a router as the velocities are outside what LinuxCNC is probably tested for, but it worked fine for me on that
05:15 PM robin_sz: but on a little stepper mill, I'd kinda expect it to be in scope
05:24 PM robin_sz: can I assume "vnormal"/"normal" are the options for normal and velocity mode?
05:31 PM Alicrow-phone: I love pocket holes
05:41 PM roycroft: heh
05:41 PM roycroft: my wild speculation was correct
05:42 PM roycroft: i just went to feed my cat, and found a little velvet bag containing my hot end parts sitting next to her food bowl
05:42 PM roycroft: which means both that i have my parts now, and that there's a chance i'm not more senile than i thought
05:42 PM roycroft: unless it was actually me that put the parts next to her bowl, and not her
05:46 PM robinsz: I can see these outputs when I run linuxcnc from the command line: note: MAXV max: 25.000 units/sec 1500.000 units/min
05:46 PM robinsz: note: LJOG max: 25.000 units/sec 1500.000 units/min
05:46 PM robinsz: note: LJOG default: 6.000 units/sec 360.000 units/min
05:46 PM cradek: roycroft: she found them for you, and put them where she knew you would see them, since you look there several times a day.
05:46 PM robinsz: are they related you think?
05:47 PM roycroft: i look at her food dish every three days or so
05:47 PM roycroft: she *wants* me to look at it more often, but it takes her four days to eat a full bowl of food
05:47 PM cradek: she's doing her best
05:47 PM roycroft: so checking every 3 days is fine for me
05:48 PM roycroft: of course, in my cat's view, the bowl should be completely full all of the time
05:48 PM robinsz: Theres a bunch of other stuff about xhc-hb04.tcl: !!! <halui.mdi-command-07> target pin does not exist, continuing
05:48 PM robinsz: ... is that normal with the pendant?
05:58 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/elevated-dust-bath/edb-09.jpg
05:58 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/elevated-dust-bath/edb-10.jpg
05:59 PM JT-Shop: kinda happy how the leg turned out... now why is the door not shut on Coop Uno?
05:59 PM * JT-Shop heads down to find out
06:01 PM robinsz: ah .. I think I found something ...
06:02 PM CaptHindsight[m]: anybody looking for a Matsuura 710? https://imgur.com/ey5VtXu
06:03 PM CaptHindsight[m]: moving and I'm not going to bring it
06:09 PM robinsz: ah ha ... bug located in xhc-hb04
06:12 PM robinsz: now, I know enough tcl to bodge it for my setup .. but unsure if I have enough tcl-fu to fix it properly
06:13 PM JT-Cave: degarr on the forum is a tcl expert
06:13 PM JT-Cave: too cold and too dark to troubleshoot the door on Coop Uno tonigh
06:14 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight[m]: You deliver to Canada? I'll trade you a free house here.
06:14 PM CaptHindsight[m]: 30F here tomorrow!
06:15 PM JT-Cave: low 18°F and it's already 19°F
06:15 PM CaptHindsight[m]: FinboySlick: will the house fit in my car?
06:15 PM FinboySlick: No, but you do have to move the house.
06:16 PM CaptHindsight[m]: FinboySlick: I think it's 8-9 tons
06:17 PM FinboySlick: Hmm. I wonder how much this house weighs.
06:17 PM _unreal_: ve7it, ok so I just finished pulling all of old quadrature input wires off of the boards
06:17 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I'll probably strip it for parts and scrap the iron
06:17 PM _unreal_: and putting on a new quadrature input control lead which is shielded. the other wire though only 6" long was not shielded
06:18 PM FinboySlick: Such a shame. Is this one of the scaped ways and matings Matsuhura?
06:19 PM _unreal_: ve7it, also I think part of the power issie is one of the mounting screws that holds the main aluminimum cooling block to the OPL controller bridged to the body of the opamp. if so it may have hapend on a few of them. my fault because the way the case design was setup. you JUST couldnt see anying or acccess anthing
06:20 PM _unreal_: ve7it, when I start to rebuild the the servo motor controller. I'm going to build it on a flat pannel so everything is visable and easy to access
06:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: jan. 1980, all square ways
06:23 PM CaptHindsight[m]: hydraulics for changer
06:26 PM robinsz: OK, looks like I solved it, lovely smooth responsive jog now
06:26 PM _unreal_: ve7it, though according to the PDF for for the OPA549 the tab is not connected to anything?
06:27 PM robinsz: I'll try and submit a pull request for the fix, but right now, time to make some chips
06:27 PM JT-Cave: robinsz, nice
06:28 PM robinsz: l8r guys
06:30 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight[m], that little old thing
06:32 PM _unreal_: so I'm guessing robinsz is figuring out the pendent issue?
06:36 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, looks like it's fit for queens :)
06:44 PM robin_sz: Right, I've updated the doc page: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Using_A_XHC-HB04_Wireless_MPG_Pendant
06:44 PM ve7it: _unreal_, page 2 of TI pdf... Tab connected to V–. Do not use to conduct current. Connect both pins 1 and 2 to output.Connect both pins 5 and 7 to V–. Connect both pins 10 and 11 to V+.
06:44 PM Tom_L: robin_sz, what did you do to fix it?
06:44 PM robin_sz: xhc-hb04.tcl needs an mpg_accels setting
06:45 PM robin_sz: eg mpg_accels = 50 50 50
06:45 PM Tom_L: what was it set to previously?
06:45 PM robin_sz: this was undocumented in either the web page or the code header
06:45 PM robin_sz: and ... if you dont supply it, instead of defaulting to the axis max accel ...
06:45 PM robin_sz: it defaults to 1.0
06:46 PM robin_sz: I think the intent was to default afraction and jfraction to 1.0
06:47 PM robin_sz: but thats not how it is coded ... and it then calculates afraction as 1.0/(axis accel)
06:47 PM ve7it: _unreal_, so yeah... shorting the tab to the heatsink and the tab of the 7805 (gnd) will short out the -25V supply
06:47 PM robin_sz: so my accels were 75
06:47 PM robin_sz: it was defaulting the mpg_accel to 1.0
06:47 PM robin_sz: and the afraction 1.0/75 etc
06:48 PM robin_sz: I'll fix the tcl to either default to the axis max accel
06:48 PM robin_sz: or just default the afractio and jfraction to 1.0 if no mpg_accels values are provided
06:54 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I dont think the 7805 ever got shorted
06:55 PM _unreal_: ve7it, no way for it to. the only thing that was was the opa tab
06:56 PM _unreal_: even then it may have even beens omething else down the line?
06:56 PM _unreal_: hence I am rebuilding the entire motor controller layout onto a flat board surface
06:56 PM _unreal_: ether pcb foam board or HDPE
07:29 PM robin_sz: And there we go, coded, tested committed and a pull request created
07:44 PM t4nk_freenode: I'd deffo go with HDPE, _unreal_ ... for ether pcb foam will evaporate right under your nose
08:00 PM roycroft: blah
08:00 PM roycroft: none of my crimp tools do a decent job with jst sm connectors
08:00 PM roycroft: now i get to spend money on yet another crimp tool, and worse, wait another week before i can install my new hot end
08:06 PM roycroft: hmm, i just read a post that says that a d-sub crimp tool can be used for jst sm pins
08:06 PM roycroft: i have not tried that, and i'm not sure where my d-sub crimp tool is, but i think i'll go find it and give it a go
08:09 PM Tom_L: robin_sz around?
08:09 PM robin_sz: let me check ...
08:09 PM robin_sz: yes.
08:10 PM Tom_L: does the xhc_hb04 driver use or create an ini section for itself?
08:10 PM Tom_L: [XHC_HB04]
08:10 PM robin_sz: it uses an in section of its own, yes
08:11 PM Tom_L: user created i presume
08:11 PM robin_sz: yes
08:11 PM Tom_L: is the accel value gotten from there for your driver?
08:11 PM robin_sz: que?
08:11 PM robin_sz: oh ..
08:11 PM robin_sz: it is now
08:11 PM Tom_L: 50 50 50
08:11 PM Tom_L: i see where it's set to 1
08:12 PM robin_sz: yeah, that 1.0 is wrong.
08:12 PM robin_sz: see my pull request for the fix
08:13 PM Tom_L: i wonder what is broke on the 06 driver
08:13 PM robin_sz: basically, I updated the docs so people know the mpg_accels thing exists
08:13 PM robin_sz: and modified the tcl to it defaults to an accel ratio of 1.0 x normal axis accels
08:13 PM robin_sz: instead of 1.0 mm/sec^2
08:14 PM Tom_L: and the if[info line... does it read that from the ini section?
08:14 PM robin_sz: yes
08:14 PM Tom_L: should that be caps?
08:14 PM Tom_L: is it a constant?
08:14 PM Tom_L: or does that matter
08:14 PM robin_sz: it is copied from existing code in the tcl file
08:14 PM Tom_L: i'm looking at the original
08:15 PM Tom_L: oh i see now in the header the ini section and vars
08:15 PM Tom_L: did you add that to the tcl header?
08:16 PM robin_sz: I added the mpg_accels docuemtation to the header, yes
08:16 PM Tom_L: i wonder why they separate the config section and buttons section
08:16 PM Tom_L: in the ini
08:16 PM robin_sz: it was undocumented before
08:16 PM robin_sz: #noclue
08:16 PM Tom_L: i see that
08:17 PM robin_sz: having an undocumented feature that defaults to a crazy value is not good ;)
08:17 PM Tom_L: better slow than way too fast :)
08:17 PM Tom_L: but should be documented
08:17 PM Tom_L: for sure
08:17 PM robin_sz: not always a good plan though ...
08:18 PM robin_sz: cranking that handwheel and watching the cutter start to move towards the work .... and 5 seconds after Ive stopped cranking, the mill is still moving and accelerating ... kinda worrying
08:18 PM Tom_L: what is layout = 2 for?
08:18 PM robin_sz: inches I think
08:18 PM robin_sz: whatver they are
08:19 PM robin_sz: is that the jog increments?
08:19 PM robin_sz: or button layout?
08:19 PM Tom_L: no there's an inch_or_mm variable
08:19 PM Tom_L: not buttons
08:19 PM robin_sz: theres something about jog increments
08:19 PM robin_sz: I dont use any of the buttons other than pause/start and jog
08:20 PM Tom_L: the buttons section is just for mapping them i think
08:20 PM robin_sz: yeah, I don't have any real use for them on this little machine yet
08:21 PM robin_sz: anyway, I tested it with/without the mpg_accels line in the ini, to make sure it behaved as expected
08:21 PM Tom_L: i have program run, pause, tool, spindle
08:22 PM robin_sz: tool?
08:22 PM Tom_L: for manual toolchange to continue
08:22 PM robin_sz: ah right, that would be useful on my router, as I have drop in holders
08:22 PM Tom_L: yes i find it very handy
08:22 PM robin_sz: on the mill it is fully manual, with spanners, so each program is a single tool
08:22 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant/pendant2.jpg
08:23 PM Tom_L: my fancy pendant :)
08:23 PM robin_sz: nice
08:23 PM robin_sz: I have a mesa pendant io card too
08:23 PM Tom_L: i got those extruded boxes from salvage
08:23 PM Tom_L: yeah i thought about one of those but am not using sserial
08:24 PM robin_sz: I'll probably use that eventually, but just to get it going, I pinched the xhc off the ruter
08:24 PM robin_sz: I have a xh6 hb06 more modern one too, but the LCNC config for that is really screwed
08:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Boxes.jpg
08:26 PM roycroft: i was planning on making something similar to that, tom_l, and may still do so
08:26 PM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, pvc foamboard is plenty hardy as a mount
08:26 PM robin_sz: look like billy cans
08:27 PM Tom_L: something for aircraft
08:27 PM Tom_L: dunno
08:27 PM roycroft: but for a couple hundred dollars, a ready-to-go pendant with a nice coiled cable is tempting
08:27 PM Tom_L: i didn't feel like throwing money at it
08:27 PM robin_sz: I think I could use a wired controller on the mill, its small enough. On the router, it really has to be wireless.
08:28 PM robin_sz: I'd love to CNC my pressbrake with LinuxCNC one day
08:28 PM robin_sz: the control on that is very retarded
08:29 PM robin_sz: It has glass-scale encoders at each end of the beam, and PWM modualted hydraulic valves for ram position control
08:30 PM robin_sz: https://scontent-man2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/251793867_3291657541061754_7899672696035595226_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=beyGvISjJA4AX_9DrkC&_nc_ht=scontent-man2-1.xx&oh=00_AT9qOAtHUJnlNCTLZekw505lHoKoN8FmAca-hZwm-IrEnw&oe=61DEA6E0
08:31 PM roycroft: i'm certainly not made of money, but time is also in short supply
08:31 PM robin_sz: 2 metres, 30 tonnes
08:31 PM roycroft: i don't know what the time vs. money graph will look like when i need to decide what to do about a pendant, but i'll look at it then
08:32 PM robin_sz: I've stopped worrying about spending money ... I can't take it with me
08:32 PM roycroft: i have a couple nice mpgs already, and a mesa pendant board
08:32 PM roycroft: i'm not hoarding money by any means
08:33 PM roycroft: i got a letter from one of the credit unions of which i'm a member today
08:33 PM roycroft: yet another balance transfer offer
08:33 PM roycroft: i was delighted to bin it immediately, as i have no debt to pay off
08:33 PM robin_sz: I was on track to not spend too much money on hobbies ... then this CNC mill came up, so I bought it
08:33 PM roycroft: and i want to keep things that way as much as possible
08:34 PM robin_sz: and I also bought a pair of HP 18GHz noise sources that month, so the hobby budget was already screwed
08:34 PM roycroft: it was a 0% balance transfer and 0% apr on purchases for a year
08:34 PM robin_sz: hah!
08:34 PM roycroft: i've done that too may times in the past - spending money i don't have knowing i have a year to pay it off without penalty
08:34 PM robin_sz: you know how those 0% deals work, right?
08:34 PM roycroft: it's better to just not buy stuff until the money is there, whenever possible
08:34 PM roycroft: yes
08:35 PM roycroft: they work by assuming that you're going to miss a payment or not get it paid off in time
08:35 PM roycroft: and then the 29% interest kicks in
08:35 PM robin_sz: if you are even 1 day late on a payment, its full interest
08:35 PM roycroft: but i know the game
08:35 PM robin_sz: indeed.
08:35 PM roycroft: and i know how to play it it to win
08:35 PM robin_sz: anyway ...
08:35 PM roycroft: i paid off a car loan in november
08:36 PM roycroft: you know what happened?
08:36 PM Tom_L: and don't add anything to it or that gets paid before the transfer amount
08:36 PM robin_sz: so id blown the hobby budget out of the water with the mill and noise sources
08:36 PM roycroft: my credit score went down 40 points
08:36 PM robin_sz: and then a guy offered me 50 feeders for my SMD machine ... well, I had to have them
08:36 PM roycroft: creditors don't like me as much now that i have no debt
08:36 PM Tom_L: yeah it's crazy how they calculate that
08:37 PM roycroft: yes tom_l, that's the case with so many of those balance transfer offers
08:37 PM robin_sz: then he offered me a solder paste machine ... that I didn;t need, and another 50 feeders thrown in for free
08:37 PM robin_sz: so I spent 8 hrs in the car today picking that up
08:38 PM roycroft: when i was doing balance transfers, which i had to do because i ran up some steep medical bills and had to pay for them with credit cards, i would not even bother looking at the fine print about what gets paid first when i make a payment
08:38 PM robin_sz: you Americans and your medical bills
08:38 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:38 PM roycroft: i just did a transfer to a card that had a zero balance, and did not use the card for anything else until the balance transfer was paid off
08:38 PM roycroft: long story short, robin_sz
08:39 PM roycroft: i had two medical issues close to each other, but unrelated
08:39 PM roycroft: one was an injur
08:39 PM roycroft: i went to the er
08:39 PM roycroft: i gave them my insurance information, and told them i wanted to only deal with in-network people
08:39 PM roycroft: that kind of happened
08:39 PM roycroft: but then one doctor stopped by "to say hi"
08:39 PM roycroft: he was out of network
08:40 PM roycroft: and i got a bill for his "saying hi" that my insurance did not cover
08:40 PM robin_sz: We just find it so strange to even have to pay for medical stuff
08:40 PM roycroft: second issue
08:40 PM roycroft: i got pneumonia
08:40 PM Tom_L: yeah i got caught on an anesthesiologist once
08:40 PM roycroft: it was christmas eve
08:40 PM roycroft: several years ago
08:40 PM roycroft: i decided i was in bad enough shape that i needed to go see someone right away
08:40 PM roycroft: i did my due diligence
08:41 PM roycroft: i found an urgent care center that was in-network
08:41 PM robin_sz: you need to reform your health care systems, its all messed up for sure
08:41 PM roycroft: i even called them ahead of time to make sure they were in-network
08:41 PM roycroft: i went to the clinic
08:41 PM roycroft: i filled out the forms, and asked them again if the doctor on duty was in-network
08:41 PM roycroft: i was assured that she was
08:41 PM roycroft: then the bills showed up
08:41 PM roycroft: it turns out that the doctor on duty was not the doctor i saw
08:41 PM Tom_L: i took my kid to one of those for 3 $800 stitches
08:42 PM roycroft: it was anotehr doctor, at another branch of the clinic
08:42 PM roycroft: and she was, indeed, in-network
08:42 PM roycroft: up until two weeks before i showed up
08:42 PM roycroft: she had not renewed her contract
08:42 PM roycroft: so i got stuck with out of network charges for everythign
08:42 PM Tom_L: i told him next time i'll use thread myself
08:43 PM roycroft: that's the worst part of our health care system
08:43 PM roycroft: not that it's privatized
08:43 PM roycroft: but that there is zero accountability
08:43 PM roycroft: and they can pull crap like that
08:43 PM robin_sz: ours just works, always.
08:43 PM roycroft: i don't know what else i could have done
08:44 PM roycroft: one of the positive things about 2022 (and there haven't been many so far) is that a new law went into effect on 1 january in the us
08:44 PM roycroft: hospitals are now required to publish their fees for everything they do
08:44 PM robin_sz: we have that here too ...
08:44 PM robin_sz: its always zero :)
08:45 PM roycroft: and if they want to perform a procedure or administer a medication, if you ask them how much it will cost they have to tell you right then and there
08:45 PM roycroft: that's far from enough, but it is progress
08:46 PM Tom_L: robin_sz, what about wait times?
08:46 PM roycroft: anyway
08:46 PM roycroft: it's time to make pizza
08:46 PM robin_sz: Tom_L, varies, for ER its very good
08:46 PM roycroft: and there will be anchovies involved tonight, so tom_l doesn't get any :)
08:46 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't care for that anyway
08:47 PM roycroft: that's why you don't get any
08:47 PM roycroft: i'm not being selfish
08:47 PM roycroft: i'm being considerate by not offering what you won't liek
08:47 PM roycroft: like
08:48 PM robin_sz: for other stuff, it seems decent ... 3 of my kids have had significant orthodontic work ... like years of straightening, special braces to correct teeth, plastic shields etc .. all zero cost
08:48 PM robin_sz: the birth care we got was excellent
08:49 PM robin_sz: when my wife had a snapped tendon, she was in for an op within a week
08:49 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:50 PM robin_sz: anyway ... back to CNC stuff ...
08:50 PM robin_sz: if you are bored, I did a bit of a blog post on the first bit of machining on this mill https://g1yfg.blogspot.com/2022/01/a-bit-of-metalwork-for-3cm-dish.html
08:50 PM robin_sz: if you aren't bored, you will be after you read that.
08:51 PM Tom_L: i saw one you posted yesterday
08:51 PM Tom_L: same?
08:51 PM robin_sz: probably
08:51 PM robin_sz: was it like 4am?
08:52 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:52 PM Tom_L: no idea
08:52 PM robin_sz: me neither ...
08:52 PM robin_sz: anyway, I was just super excited it finally mad chips!
08:53 PM flyback: YOU GUYS WILL APPRECIATE THIS
08:53 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Iq3HkebhM
08:53 PM Tom_L: and now it jogs
08:53 PM robin_sz: and now it jogs!
08:53 PM * Tom_L slaps flyback with a wet noodle
08:53 PM * flyback slaps Tom_L around with veegee
08:53 PM flyback: BMCC
08:54 PM robin_sz: have you tried typing "askew" into google?
08:54 PM Alicrow-phone: I have now
08:54 PM robin_sz: isnt that awesome?
08:54 PM unterhausen: what's supposed to happen?
08:55 PM robin_sz: look *very carefully* at the page ...
08:55 PM Alicrow-phone: I love it
08:55 PM unterhausen: I don't know if that's awesome or if they should get back to work
08:56 PM robin_sz: that *is* there work
08:56 PM unterhausen: where is there work?
08:57 PM robin_sz: it's ... everywhere.
08:58 PM Tom_L: robin_sz, one thing to keep in mind on the accels is a rotary axis
08:58 PM Tom_L: the numbers will not be the same
08:58 PM unterhausen: homonyms are going to be the death of us all
08:58 PM Tom_L: i had to figure that out on my pendant
08:58 PM robin_sz: numbers not same?
08:59 PM robin_sz: not same as what?
08:59 PM unterhausen: is a hobby shop going to have 3mm plywood?
08:59 PM Tom_L: a linear axis
08:59 PM Tom_L: units are different
08:59 PM robin_sz: Tom_L, but, either way, the default should be the normal accels from the config for that axis
09:00 PM Tom_L: i added a separate ilowpass filter to mine
09:00 PM robin_sz: so it doesn't really matter if it is in radians per weekend, if the rotary axis is configured as 189330 as the accel for the axis, then that presumably is a reasonable default
09:00 PM Tom_L: now, 10 clicks on the coarse setting is 1 degree
09:02 PM robin_sz: I think thats the essential point, defaulting the axis to its "normal" accel settings, straight out of the axis fig of the ini is always going to work
09:03 PM Tom_L: actually looking at the joint sections now, they're not that terribly different
09:03 PM Tom_L: i did have to edit a couple other sections to get it to work right though
09:03 PM robin_sz: and if people want it slower, they can add lopass or discrete accel values if they like
09:04 PM Tom_L: one place which makes no sense it uses MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY and DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY for a rotary
09:04 PM Tom_L: in [DISPLAY]
09:05 PM Tom_L: took a bit to figure that out
09:05 PM robin_sz: theres lots of places the ini makes no sense ;)
09:05 PM robin_sz: the one that drives me mad ... is ...
09:05 PM robin_sz: SERVO_PERIOD = 2000000
09:06 PM robin_sz: and
09:06 PM Tom_L: yeah i agree on that one
09:06 PM robin_sz: CYCLE_TIME = 0.010
09:06 PM robin_sz: why two different units? WHY?
09:07 PM robin_sz: many solutions were proposed, none were implemented ...
09:07 PM Tom_L: it's a program you have to get to know
09:07 PM robin_sz: no, thats a really lame reason
09:07 PM Tom_L: just like any other
09:08 PM Tom_L: i didn't say it was ok
09:08 PM robin_sz: its part of the reason people shy away from it
09:08 PM robin_sz: pncconf has heled a lot though
09:08 PM Tom_L: i've never used it
09:09 PM robin_sz: but most new users do
09:10 PM robin_sz: we were arguing about the PERIOD/TIME units 20 years ago ... it still bugs me every time I see it
09:11 PM robin_sz: I'm keen to see if 2.8.x has fixed the "stopping during arc moves" thing
09:11 PM robin_sz: it might not be noticeable on the mill
09:12 PM Tom_L: oh, btw did you look at the comp xhc_hb04-accels?
09:12 PM robin_sz: at what now?
09:12 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/xhc-hb04-accels.1.html
09:13 PM Tom_L: maybe that's the answer you were looking for all along
09:14 PM robin_sz: no info in that page, looks dead and obsolete
09:14 PM robin_sz: I think thats pre the .tcl script
09:14 PM Tom_L: yeah that could be..
09:15 PM robin_sz: needs pruning from the doc tree by the look of it
09:15 PM Tom_L: looking at git, it says it should be removed
09:15 PM robin_sz: it shuold
09:15 PM robin_sz: but ... will it?
09:15 PM Tom_L: add it to your request?
09:18 PM robin_sz: let me see if I can find it in GIT
09:19 PM Tom_L: in scripts
09:26 PM robin_sz: ah yes
09:28 PM robin_sz: hmm, delete that from my repo and the associated man page, add it to a pull request?
09:28 PM Tom_L: you're asking the wrong person on that :)
09:29 PM Tom_L: sounds right though
09:30 PM Tom_L: also did you look at xhc-hb04-util?
09:31 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man9/xhc_hb04_util.9.html
09:36 PM Tom_L: what was the last 32bit solidworks version?
09:37 PM Tom_L: 2014
09:37 PM Tom_L: google knew that
09:41 PM roycroft: google know everything
09:41 PM roycroft: because they spy on everyone
09:42 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:46 PM robin_sz: right, enough of this
09:46 PM robin_sz: time for bed
09:46 PM robin_sz: night guys. see you again when I next have a problem ;)
10:15 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:25 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:20 PM solarwind: I keep stripping the threads on my M3 mandrel for my rivet nut tool
11:21 PM solarwind: I think it's because it's made of mild steel
11:21 PM solarwind: Need an easy way to replace it with something harder. I'm thinking of annealing a drill bit, welding it to the mandrel, threading it with an M3 die, then hardening again
11:22 PM solarwind: The mandrel looks like this: https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/3EHU8_AS01?hei=536&wid=536&$adapimg$=
11:23 PM solarwind: Should be easy enough to replace the stem with an appropriately sized drill bit
11:38 PM * Bleepshop does the Happy Dance.
11:40 PM * t4nk_freenode joins in for no reason at all
11:41 PM Bleepshop: 90% of the parts I need to rework my panel are here. DIN rails, terminals, end stop blocks, PCB mounts, etc. These mounts work great with the CannaKit Pi cases. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FY5NDXT
11:42 PM Bleepshop: I still want to order some Dend caps and ground terminals
11:42 PM Bleepshop: But those will be next payday.