#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 01 2022
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:01 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:16 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:09 AM Deejay: moin
02:09 AM Deejay: happy new year to everyone!
05:35 AM unterhausen: That's a big storm headed our way
05:45 AM Tom_L: morning
05:45 AM Tom_L: happy new year
05:52 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:52 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:52 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:57 AM Tom_L: 22F
06:08 AM Tom_L: heh, weather surrounding us but not much here: https://www.wunderground.com/maps/radar/current/sln
07:24 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:24 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:28 AM JT-Cave: 57°F and raining
08:57 AM robinsz: morning chaps
08:57 AM robinsz: so ... any thoughts on the slow accels from the handwheel?
08:58 AM robinsz: https://youtu.be/PhXRdwXfhvM
08:59 AM robinsz: there was talk of it being related to the ilopass component, but the coefficients are set to 1 already
09:02 AM robinsz: It's bery difficult to use as it is ... setting heights it is all to easy to wind the tool into the work
09:05 AM Tom_L: robinsz, where does the signal go once it's in hal?
09:09 AM robinsz: I don't know
09:09 AM robinsz: it comes in on the wireless dongle
09:09 AM robinsz: and after that, its a mystery to me, I know the tcl file is involved
09:10 AM Tom_L: find it's input pin from the driver docs
09:10 AM Tom_L: follow it in hal to see where it goes
09:11 AM robinsz: I don't understand
09:11 AM Tom_L: the doc for the pendant driver should give you a pin for the mpg
09:12 AM Tom_L: that goes into hal as a net somewhere
09:12 AM Tom_L: we need to find it
09:12 AM robinsz: lets break it down piece by piece
09:12 AM Tom_L: that's what i'm trying to do
09:12 AM robinsz: "the doc for the pendant driver" ... what does that mean?
09:13 AM Tom_L: what's the pendant again?
09:13 AM robinsz: im not even sure that "pendant driver" means ... is it the xhc-hbo4.tcl file?
09:14 AM robinsz: its the xhc-hb04, which as far as I know is the most common pendant for this sort of thing.
09:15 AM robinsz: the .tcl file is here: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/lib/hallib/xhc-hb04.tcl
09:15 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/xhc-hb04.1.html#Output%20Pins%20(for%20jogging%20using%20axis.N.jog-counts)
09:15 AM Tom_L: open your hal file and look for any xhc pins
09:16 AM robinsz: you've lost me again
09:16 AM robinsz: "open your hal file" ...
09:16 AM robinsz: I have gedit
09:16 AM Tom_L: the main .hal file
09:16 AM Tom_L: open it
09:16 AM robinsz: which file do I open?
09:16 AM Tom_L: what's the name of your main file?
09:16 AM Tom_L: for the mill
09:17 AM robinsz: my_mill.ini
09:17 AM Tom_L: open my_mill.hal
09:17 AM Tom_L: search for 'xhc' and see what it says
09:17 AM robinsz: one moment, vnc died ...
09:29 AM robinsz_shed: OK
09:29 AM robinsz_shed: back
09:29 AM robinsz_shed: there are no entries related to 'xhc' in the main hal file
09:29 AM robinsz_shed: the entries in the ini are :
09:30 AM robinsz_shed: HALFILE = xhc-hb04.tcl
09:30 AM robinsz_shed: HALFILE=monitor-xhc-hb04.tcl
09:30 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:30 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:31 AM robinsz_shed: and you've seen the .tcl file in that link
09:32 AM Tom_L: so let's run linuxcnc and open the pin list
09:32 AM robinsz_shed: open the pinlist?
09:33 AM Tom_L: are you running axis gui?
09:33 AM robinsz_shed: yes
09:34 AM Tom_L: Show HAL Configuration - Opens the HAL Configuration window where you can monitor HAL Components, Pins, Parameters, Signals, Functions, and Threads.
09:34 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gui/axis.html
09:35 AM Tom_L: it's under the menu "Machine" i believe
09:35 AM robinsz_shed: yes, and I can see some xhc related pins
09:35 AM Tom_L: ok open those and post a screenshot somewhere
09:36 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:37 AM robinsz_shed: OK, but before I do, none of them mention "accel"
09:38 AM robinsz_shed: https://imgur.com/a/wRMNhr2
09:41 AM robinsz_shed: I guess most of those are generated on the fly by the tcl script
09:45 AM robinsz_shed: I suppose as a work-around, I could just turn off the power to the stepper motors and jog it by the handwheels on the machine itself
09:49 AM robinsz_shed: I'm going to go back inside, it's cold out here, but I shuold be able to VNC in still
09:50 AM Tom_L: what's under 'a"
09:53 AM robinsz: same as is under x ... it just another axis
09:55 AM robinsz: so just the abs and relative positions for a
09:57 AM Tom_L: ok let's work backwards then
09:58 AM Tom_L: in your main.hal search for axis.x.jog-counts and see what it connected to that
10:00 AM robinsz: nothing
10:00 AM robinsz: axis.x.jog* yields nothing
10:02 AM robinsz: I think that pin is created on the fly
10:02 AM robinsz: see line 268 of https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/lib/hallib/xhc-hb04.tcl
10:04 AM robinsz: infact line 260 looks interesting
10:15 AM roguish[m]: robinsz: joint.N.jog-accel-fraction IN FLOAT
10:15 AM roguish[m]: Sets acceleration for wheel jogging to a fraction of the ini max_acceleration for the joint. Values greater than 1 or less than zero are ignored.
10:16 AM robinsz: thats nice, but how is it relevant?
10:17 AM roguish[m]: the function works very well. I use it to smooth my mpg jogging.
10:17 AM robinsz: sigh
10:17 AM robinsz: thats eaxtly the opposit of my problem
10:17 AM robinsz: I dont want less accel
10:17 AM robinsz: I want more
10:18 AM roguish[m]: robinsz: you posted a question: so ... any thoughts on the slow accels from the handwheel?
10:18 AM robinsz: watch the video ...
10:18 AM robinsz: https://youtu.be/PhXRdwXfhvM
10:18 AM robinsz: it shows the problem
10:19 AM robinsz: crazy slow response from the handwheel
10:20 AM roguish[m]: are you in job position mode? or jog velocity mode?
10:21 AM robinsz: ummm ...
10:21 AM roguish[m]: joint.N.jog-vel-mode IN BIT
10:21 AM roguish[m]: When FALSE (the default), the jogwheel operates in position mode. The joint will move exactly jog-scale units for each count, regardless of how long that might take. When TRUE, the wheel operates in velocity mode - motion stops when the wheel stops, even if that means the commanded motion is not completed.
10:21 AM robinsz: position I think
10:21 AM roguish[m]: these are both documented in : http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man9/axis.9.html
10:22 AM Tom_L: was afk but i don't think there's much i can help with on this
10:22 AM robinsz: OK
10:22 AM Tom_L: seems to all be handled inside the driver
10:23 AM robinsz: I also need to find where to buy an hb04 pendant from, this one is borrowed off another machine and will need to go back
10:23 AM robinsz: I seem to only find the newer hb06 pendants on eBay
10:24 AM robinsz: but, anyway, thats for later
10:24 AM Tom_L: how is it set up on the other machine?
10:24 AM robinsz: dunno
10:24 AM robinsz: its 5 miles away and no interrnet
10:25 AM roguish[m]: Jogging can be tricky to setup. you may have to experiment a bit. and most important is RTFM
10:25 AM Tom_L: maybe you should look next time you're there
10:25 AM Tom_L: take a thumbdrive along :)
10:25 AM robinsz: its 2.6.0 o that machine
10:25 AM Tom_L: could still give some insight
10:26 AM roguish[m]: Amazon: search for 'cnc pendant'
10:26 AM roguish[m]: not that Bezos needs any more money
10:27 AM Tom_L: he's gotta keep up with elon
10:27 AM roguish[m]: robinsz: ditto on Tom_L's suggestion. find out how it works on the other machine. copy ALL the files....
10:28 AM robinsz: its a different version, and servos
10:28 AM robinsz: this is just a mill with steppers
10:28 AM roguish[m]: oh, yeah, HAPPY NEW YEAR to all.
10:29 AM robinsz: also, if you search amazon for "cnc pendant" you will only find the hb06, not the older hb04
10:30 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/SHINA-Upgrade-Handwheel-Optical-Generator/dp/B00D7VSR6I/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=hb04+pendant&qid=1641053647&sr=8-4
10:30 AM robinsz: the hb04 config at least partly works, the hb06 config is just a mess of errors
10:31 AM robinsz: Tom_L, thats not an HB04, thats wired for a start
10:31 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Handwheel-Controller-Generator-Engraving/dp/B07JN4P3YH/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2ZXHZGJRVLV3A&keywords=hb04+cnc+pendant&qid=1641053748&sprefix=hb04+cnc+pendant%2Caps%2C91&sr=8-5
10:31 AM robinsz: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dyhcrOboLk4/XGAKAIlP7-I/AAAAAAAAS78/5MnlcuqwB-cf0ra1WGpC5DTI5fr_zUAeQCLcBGAs/s640/Pendant.jpg
10:32 AM robinsz: Tom_L, the one you posted is an hb06
10:32 AM robinsz: I have one of those already
10:32 AM Tom_L: says model WHB04B
10:32 AM robinsz: says "6 axis" too
10:33 AM Tom_L: ok, i've never owned one so i dunno
10:33 AM robinsz: Just look at the image I posted
10:33 AM robinsz: thats an actual hb04
10:34 AM robinsz: thats the one that "works" with the xhc-hbo4 driver
10:34 AM robinsz: the other ones witht he smaller display, the "tighter" case, thats the 06
10:34 AM roycroft: the new year is starting out exactly like the year just passed - with pendant woes
10:34 AM Tom_L: yeah but he's got it talking
10:35 AM roycroft: that's a good sign
10:35 AM Tom_L: that's more than when we started
10:35 AM roycroft: i'm still trying to pay attention to this discussion as much as possible
10:35 AM roycroft: because i'll probably get a pendant for my router, and if not, certainly for my mill
10:35 AM robinsz: i think as a workaround, I'll just wire a switch so I can take power off the stepper drives
10:36 AM roycroft: although i bought a pendant controller board for my mill, with the intent of making my own pendant
10:36 AM robinsz: then I can crank the mill to zero it, and turn the power back on
10:37 AM robinsz: yeah, I have the Mesa pendant board too, I was going to use that to wire up a panel on the machine itself
10:37 AM roycroft: i won't use that board for my router, though, so if i get one for the router an out of the box usb pendant is probably what i get
10:37 AM Tom_L: i found an 03
10:37 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Autek-NCStudio-Handwheel-Wireless-Pendant/dp/B07HL56R4F/ref=sr_1_38?crid=2ZXHZGJRVLV3A&keywords=hb04+cnc+pendant&qid=1641053748&sprefix=hb04+cnc+pendant%2Caps%2C91&sr=8-38
10:37 AM robinsz: but I still like a wireless pendatn as well, I find it very handy on the router
10:37 AM roycroft: i'm still uncertain how useful it would be for a router
10:37 AM robinsz: massively useful
10:38 AM roycroft: if anyone here has one on a cnc router i'd like to hear their perspetive
10:38 AM robinsz: my router is an 8x4
10:38 AM roycroft: on a mill i'd say it's almost essential
10:38 AM Tom_L: makes it lots easier to jog into fixtures :)
10:38 AM robinsz: you need to be able to to walk around with it,
10:38 AM robinsz: you dont want a trailing lead
10:38 AM roycroft: hmm
10:38 AM robinsz: on a mill, you can get away without one
10:39 AM Tom_L: robinsz, how different is the 03?
10:39 AM robinsz: you can usually reach the buttons
10:39 AM roycroft: see, my use case may be different
10:39 AM roycroft: first of all my router will be 2'x4'
10:39 AM robinsz: kinda small
10:39 AM roycroft: yes, but it's the right size for what i need to do, and it will actually fit in my shop
10:40 AM robinsz: but still, if you have 4 foot arms, you should still be able to reach the jog wheel at the far side
10:40 AM Tom_L: think outside the shop... you need one you can walk inside
10:40 AM robinsz: I only have 2 foot arms, so I cant
10:40 AM roycroft: also, i plan on just running generated code on the router - i think that 100% of the time i'll be setting up the job in whatever cam/cad software i use, and just running that job
10:41 AM robinsz: lol
10:41 AM robinsz: ok
10:41 AM roycroft: on the mill there will be a lot of "semi-manual" work
10:41 AM robinsz: trust me, you'll want a pendant
10:41 AM roycroft: so it will be a lot more interactive than i anticipate on the router
10:41 AM Tom_L: pendant is the best thing i added to my mill
10:41 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:41 AM roycroft: you may well be right
10:41 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:41 AM robinsz: I use Cut2DPro for the jobs
10:42 AM roycroft: i'm looking at vcarve pro to start with
10:42 AM roycroft: and possible upgrading to aspire at some point, but not for a while, at least
10:42 AM robinsz: all programming is offline, never cut a manual job or edited gocde on the router by hand, ever
10:42 AM robinsz: but the pendant is still a hugely useful tool
10:43 AM roycroft: well at the very least, i have a usb port on my rpi that will run linuxnc that is designated for a pendant
10:43 AM Tom_L: only time i've edited on the machine is when i wanted to start at a certain line and had to turn the spindle back on
10:43 AM roycroft: i may not have one on day one when i get the machine working
10:43 AM Tom_L: not at a tool change
10:43 AM roycroft: but i might end up ordering one on day two :)
10:43 AM robinsz: on the mill, I think when the button panel is built, I may be able to get away without it, but its still nice to have for getting up close and positioning a cutter
10:44 AM Tom_L: robinsz, do you touch off your tools?
10:44 AM robinsz: I have "manual" tool change on the router. ISO30 holders, all pre-programmed in the tool table
10:45 AM robinsz: I have a dial indicator and set them up on that, with the pendant
10:45 AM Tom_L: ok
10:45 AM robinsz: crank it down until the indicator is zeroed, entther the Z value into the table
10:45 AM Tom_L: i wondered how you jogged without the pendant
10:46 AM robinsz: I dont
10:46 AM Tom_L: so you had a pendant on this prior?
10:46 AM Tom_L: just not wireless?
10:46 AM robinsz: I have 2 machines
10:46 AM Tom_L: gotcha
10:46 AM robinsz: a router, with the working pendant
10:46 AM robinsz: the mill is "in progress"
10:46 AM robinsz: the router is not in the video
10:47 AM robinsz: its an 8x4 with a 20hp vacuum pump for clamping
10:47 AM robinsz: 7hp ISO30 tool chnage spindle
10:47 AM robinsz: hmm
10:47 AM robinsz: might be ISO40
10:47 AM robinsz: whatever
10:48 AM robinsz: that works well on 2.6.0
10:48 AM robinsz: hmm, excpet for circles
10:48 AM robinsz: it always pauses at one point
10:48 AM robinsz: so say a 200mm circle, starting at say 10 o'clock
10:49 AM robinsz: it will decel to a stop at the 3 o'clock position
10:49 AM Tom_L: my rotary pauses but i think it's due to how the cam generates the code
10:49 AM robinsz: then accel away again
10:49 AM Tom_L: yeah
10:49 AM robinsz: pain in the arse, results in burns on the wood
10:49 AM robinsz: the previous controller was much better
10:50 AM robinsz: fed with the same code, out of cut2d it didn;t do that
10:50 AM robinsz: but then it blew up ;)
10:52 AM robinsz: you'd hope the trajectory planner would just blend them together
10:52 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/SHINA-Wireless-Pendant-Handwheel-Generator/dp/B06X19THB5/ref=pd_day0_1/139-0243780-8116675?pd_rd_w=0VG2I&pf_rd_p=8ca997d7-1ea0-4c8f-9e14-a6d756b83e30&pf_rd_r=DQN6SAPSYQG7W5N3D16K&pd_rd_r=46a5e79c-e469-4bd3-9557-d84a4d9855bf&pd_rd_wg=VEPCR&pd_rd_i=B06X19THB5&th=1
10:52 AM Tom_L: that indicates you can get either 4 or 6 axis
10:54 AM robinsz: but doesnt look like the one I have, which I know "works", I'd not want to spend another bunch of money to find out
10:54 AM Tom_L: yeah i was looking for a model
10:54 AM robinsz: If I can find another older 04, I'll buy it
10:55 AM robinsz: there is every chnace the 04 version of the new one will use the newer driver and not work
10:55 AM robinsz: I don't need that hassle
10:55 AM robinsz: there is a long discussion on the forum about xhc models ...
10:57 AM robinsz: anyway, started this wanting to cut some pockets in aluminium for an antenna mounting
10:57 AM Tom_L: this is older but may be useful: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Using_A_XHC-HB04_Wireless_MPG_Pendant
10:58 AM robinsz: yes, that is the doc I followed to get here
10:58 AM robinsz: that exact page
10:58 AM robinsz: what I have is exactly whats on that page
10:58 AM robinsz: pasted in
10:59 AM robinsz: except for the typo in the filename, which I corrected and updated that page
11:02 AM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/193199359621
11:02 AM robinsz: lol, ok, so I updated it earlier today for that typ0, and it looks like the previous edit to that page was also me in 2005
11:03 AM robinsz: Tom_L, yet again, thats the newer pendant
11:03 AM robinsz: look at the image on this page:
11:04 AM robinsz: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Using_A_XHC-HB04_Wireless_MPG_Pendant
11:04 AM robinsz: that the older pendant, which I know works
11:04 AM robinsz: the newer style *probably* all use the newer driver
11:05 AM Tom_L: the 06 driver should work just as well
11:05 AM Tom_L: where's your sense of adventure?
11:06 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/xhc-whb04b-6.1.html
11:06 AM Tom_L: somebody recently used that but i can't recall who
11:06 AM robinsz: I have an 06 pendant
11:06 AM robinsz: I tried the instructions in that doc
11:07 AM robinsz: they are complete bollocks
11:07 AM robinsz: results in many many lines of conflicts
11:08 AM robinsz: the HAL code in that doc and the linked GIT is completely incompatible with the HAL code out of pncconf
11:08 AM Tom_L: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/987
11:10 AM robinsz: I have 2.8.2 on this machine, so should have that commit already
11:11 AM Tom_L: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/41101-xhc-whb04b-6-help-needed
11:11 AM Tom_L: if i needed a pendant i'd get one and test it
11:13 AM robinsz: yes, as you can see from the last message on that page, it is hosed
11:13 AM robinsz: he starts talking about "if the pin conflicts, you need to do this, or this, or maybe rewire that section" ..
11:14 AM robinsz: you don't publish code as working that conflicts with everything
11:15 AM roycroft: you have to if you can't control what other people do
11:16 AM robinsz: I would add a comment to that thread, but my forum account is broken, and it won't create another one for the same email
11:16 AM robinsz: no, you dont
11:16 AM roycroft: i think we'll need to agree to disagree on this point :)
11:16 AM robinsz: there are perfectly simple ways to code that
11:17 AM roycroft: not within the current structure of linuxnc
11:17 AM roycroft: linuxcnc, rather
11:17 AM robinsz: yes there are.
11:18 AM roycroft: anyway, in the interest of not engaging in an argument where neither party will alter their views, i'll mention that i have figured out a way to line up holes in my parts that works a lot better than what i've been doing
11:18 AM robinsz: I'll give you a clue: there is a hal or2 gate ...
11:18 AM roycroft: and it does not involve concentric mates of the holes
11:19 AM roycroft: i'm now able to lay out a hole pattern on one part, insert it into an assembly, and "project" those holes to its mating part
11:19 AM robinsz: without creating holes at the assembly level?
11:19 AM roycroft: which is way better than what i was doing, which was creating the holes one one part, measuring them, drawing them again on the mating part, and hoping i got it right
11:19 AM robinsz: wut?
11:19 AM roycroft: what i'm doing is mating the parts
11:19 AM robinsz: I draw holes on one part
11:20 AM roycroft: then suppressing the concetric mate where the part surfaces coincicde
11:20 AM robinsz: then in the mating part, draw a second hole and set it is concentric on the hole in the first part
11:20 AM roycroft: i can then pull them apart, as in an exploded view, while maintaining alignment
11:21 AM robinsz: works a treat, always concentric
11:21 AM roycroft: then i can use the hole wizard and "project" the existing hole positions onto the mating part
11:21 AM robinsz: sounds a bit odd
11:21 AM roycroft: it's working out well from my initial goes at the new technique
11:21 AM robinsz: I just make them concentric, I don;t see the problem, they always follow the holes in the other part
11:22 AM roycroft: i'm using the hole wizard, and i have not figured out how to do that within an assembly
11:22 AM robinsz: shrug
11:22 AM roycroft: i took one, first term solidworks class about 12 years ago
11:23 AM roycroft: i use autocad for 90+% of my cad work
11:23 AM roycroft: so i'm essentially relearning solidworks for this project
11:23 AM robinsz: just draw the holes in one part, mate the second part, add concentric holes in the second part, job done
11:23 AM roycroft: and we never dealt with the hole wizard in my initial class
11:24 AM robinsz: you only ever pull parts into an "exploded view" in eDrawings anyway
11:24 AM robinsz: never in SW itself
11:24 AM Tom_L: i always get confused when you say mate :) makes me think you're Au. catia uses constraints
11:24 AM roycroft: when i unsupress the mate they lock back in
11:24 AM robinsz: lol
11:24 AM roycroft: constraints are the components of mates in solidworks
11:24 AM robinsz: you're not supposed to do that
11:24 AM Tom_L: i know
11:24 AM roycroft: the parts are "mated"
11:25 AM roycroft: the constraints are the rules to position the mates
11:25 AM Tom_L: catia doesn't use the term
11:25 AM robinsz: but you are suppressing a mate to make some sort of "exploded view"?
11:25 AM robinsz: who told you to do that, thats bad and wrong
11:25 AM * roycroft looks for the rule that tells him he's not allowed do to what he's doing, and can't find it
11:26 AM roycroft: well the hole wizard won't work when i don't suppress the mate
11:26 AM robinsz: well, its not what they teach you in the training
11:26 AM roycroft: and i have not figured out a way to locate a hole with a concentric mate using the hole wizard as you described
11:27 AM Tom_L: i picked up sw on my own and don't use it much but did take catia classes and tried to duplicate all the sample files in both
11:27 AM robinsz: I did some trainign an client paid for
11:27 AM roycroft: if what i did works, i don't see how it is "wrong"
11:27 AM robinsz: and I've done a fair bit of sw consultancy
11:27 AM Tom_L: they had specific reasons for telling us how to make a part even though it may be easier another way
11:28 AM Tom_L: future editing was a big priority
11:28 AM robinsz: yeah, especially on big assemblies
11:28 AM Tom_L: break the sketch down to it's minimal for each feature
11:28 AM Tom_L: do all blending in the solid
11:29 AM robinsz: and alwys pick up references from parent parts
11:29 AM roycroft: so i described a couple days ago how i was doing the mates - in order, a coincident mate of the two surfaces that are aligned, then two concentric mates in two of the holes
11:29 AM roycroft: and that would fully locate a pair of parts
11:29 AM robinsz: each feature measurment or position must only be defiend once
11:29 AM roycroft: i'm not doing that now, because i'm not adding the hole features to the second part before the mate
11:30 AM robinsz: too many people get confused with top-down and bottom-up assembly ... and then mix between the two
11:30 AM robinsz: bad things happen then
11:30 AM roycroft: so now i'm doing the coincident mate as before, and on the parts i'm working with now, one is centered left to right and aligned at the frint with the other, so i'm doing a width mate for the centering, and a parallel mate of the front surfaces
11:30 AM roycroft: that works fine, and lets me suppress the coincident mate so i can pull it apart to add the holes
11:31 AM roycroft: in my class we only learned bottom up assemblies
11:31 AM roycroft: top down was in the next course, which i did not take
11:31 AM roycroft: and top down might be a better way to do this, but i'm building on what i know
11:31 AM robinsz: why suppress a mate? just change the visibility on the part
11:31 AM roycroft: i haven't been able to make it work - i spent a bunch of time trying to do so
11:32 AM robinsz: or chnage the filter to let you pick the features you want
11:32 AM roycroft: but when i pull them apart it's trivial to project the holes down onto the second part
11:32 AM roycroft: and then i unsuppress the mate when i'm done
11:32 AM roycroft: i don't see what is "wrong" with that
11:32 AM roycroft: it may not be the most efficient way of doing things, but it works
11:33 AM robinsz: I don't understand the "project the holes" part
11:33 AM Tom_L: you're not working to an industry standard either so do what works
11:33 AM robinsz: I just draw the holes, define them as concentric with the holes in the mated part, done
11:33 AM roycroft: when i pull the assembly apart, and i tell the hole wizard i want to locate the holes, i've already selected the surface where i want the holes
11:34 AM roycroft: i hover over one of the existing holes, and it projects an 'x' onto the surface where i want the new hole
11:34 AM roycroft: i click on the 'x', and it creates the hole there
11:34 AM roycroft: tom_l: it does not matter in the end
11:34 AM roycroft: i suppress a mate, then i unsuppress it when i'm done editing
11:35 AM robinsz: and when you come across a part that is mated to multiple parts, and its not clear which ones to suppress?
11:35 AM roycroft: those actions do not show up in the build tree at all
11:35 AM Tom_L: i'm not offering anything yay or nay since i don't know sw very well
11:35 AM roycroft: if i did not tell you i did it this way, you would have no way of knowing how i liked up the holes
11:35 AM roycroft: lined up, rather
11:35 AM robinsz: it could work ok in small, 2 or 3 part assemblies, where parts are mated simply
11:36 AM roycroft: if it stops working for me i'll figure out a different way to do it
11:37 AM robinsz: but in larger assemblies with multiple mates and more complex arrangements of mates .. anyway. whatever
11:37 AM Tom_L: our instructor showed us a doll house model that was done so that he could change one dimension and it would completely resize the doll house
11:37 AM robinsz: yeah, I love parametric modelling
11:37 AM Tom_L: i think he's got too much time on his hands
11:37 AM robinsz: often, I'll start a model with an excel sheet
11:37 AM Tom_L: i played with tables a bit even though it wasn't part of the course
11:37 AM Tom_L: do an excel sheet for them
11:38 AM robinsz: just link critical dimensins back to the sheet
11:38 AM robinsz: works nicely
11:38 AM robinsz: especially for products with multiple variants
11:38 AM roycroft: i think i can still draw all of this faster in autocad using traditional 3 views + needed ancillary views, maintaining different files for every part, and using a spreadsheet to manage dimensions that are common to multiple drawings
11:38 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/practice_drawings/Cylinder.jpg
11:38 AM roycroft: but that's just because i don't know solidworks well enough
11:39 AM Tom_L: i used that as a practice part for tables
11:39 AM roycroft: it's far better to do it in a 3d cad package in the end, so i'm taking the extra time to do it that way
11:39 AM Tom_L: i'd completed the course a month ahead of schedule so i was just playing around
11:39 AM robinsz: nice
11:40 AM roycroft: i did get an a+ in my solidworks class, and also in the autocad classes i took
11:40 AM Tom_L: he also gave me ~140 practice drawings to do which i finished
11:40 AM robinsz: blimey
11:40 AM Tom_L: the course required 10
11:40 AM roycroft: so it's not like i just muddled through that stuff
11:40 AM robinsz: I had a client with deep pockets ... they paid for a course
11:40 AM roycroft: but as i said, it's been more than a decade since i took the solidworks class, and i haven't used the software much since then
11:40 AM robinsz: ive done various bits of consultancy since then
11:40 AM Tom_L: i was more interested to see what catia was about
11:41 AM roycroft: i would not mind spending $1k for another class
11:41 AM Tom_L: since it's heavily used around here
11:41 AM robinsz: auto and aero industry?
11:41 AM Tom_L: aero
11:41 AM Tom_L: yes
11:41 AM robinsz: its been around long enough, and is stable
11:41 AM roycroft: but since i have sw2012, i'd have to also pony up $6k for a new software license, as i would not be able to use my old version in a current class
11:41 AM robinsz: but not cheap
11:41 AM Tom_L: i have the pdf with all the practice drawings
11:42 AM robinsz: right ... anyway
11:42 AM Tom_L: no it's on the high end
11:42 AM robinsz: this pendant isn't going to fix itself
11:42 AM Tom_L: and i'm not going to either :)
11:42 AM robinsz: I thinkI'll try the "motors turned off, manual jog" thing
11:42 AM Tom_L: don't blow your drives
11:42 AM Tom_L: drivers
11:43 AM * roycroft thinks he'll get back to doing things "wrong", and wonders when the blue smoke will start coming out of his solidworks window
11:43 AM robinsz: they will be powered off
11:43 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/practice_drawings/HDD.jpg
11:43 AM Tom_L: one of the assy problems
11:44 AM robinsz: nice
11:44 AM robinsz: the heads move
11:44 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:44 AM robinsz: nice
11:44 AM Tom_L: within angular limits
11:44 AM robinsz: even better
11:44 AM robinsz: right. back to the shed
11:44 AM Tom_L: later
11:51 AM roycroft: robinsz seems to have a strong sense that there is only one correct/acceptable way to do things
11:51 AM roycroft: i need to keep that in mind when we're interacting
11:52 AM roycroft: i get frustrated when i'm told that something is "wrong", without a good explanation as to why it's wrong
11:52 AM roycroft: "it's wrong because i don't do it that way" doesn't sit well with me
11:56 AM Tom_L: industry does like things a certain way but that doesn't affect a single user
11:57 AM roycroft: sure, but again, this has nothing to do with industry, in that the drawing will be no different in the end
11:57 AM roycroft: and i'm very much open to learning to do things according to inudstry standard practices
11:59 AM roycroft: the discussion we had amounted to this: i was happy that i found a way to get the features added that i needed, i was told that what i was doing was "wrong", and was lectured on the "correct" way to do it, i responded that i tried it that way already but i could not get it to work, and was then told that i was "wrong" and to just do it the way i was told to do it
11:59 AM roycroft: that doesn't help
12:00 PM roycroft: and it's not anyone's job to teach me how to use the software, but if you're going to tell me what i'm doing is wrong, and outline the correct way, the decent thing to do would be to offer a bit of further assistance
12:00 PM roycroft: anyway, i'm slowly making progress, which is what is most important in the end
12:01 PM Tom_L: well i was informed all pendants are the same and i just ignored it
12:01 PM roycroft: yes
12:01 PM roycroft: i just need to get better at ignoring that stuff
12:01 PM roycroft: i found that position somewhat incredible
12:01 PM Tom_L: irc = leather skin
12:02 PM roycroft: that linuxcnc is somehow at fault because a pendant does not work immediately upon plugging it in
12:02 PM Tom_L: it probably got broke on some update they did
12:02 PM Tom_L: since so few use it, it never showed it's ugly face
12:03 PM roycroft: my remarks about there being one way of doing things and everything else is wrong is not specific to my use of solidworks
12:03 PM roycroft: it is more about the pendant issue
12:19 PM CaptHindsight[m]: anyone know of an Eastern European New Years tradition of sprinkling your front door or frame with small red berries and their juice?
12:19 PM roycroft: sounds messy
12:20 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I didn't hear enough to make out the exact language
12:21 PM * Bleepshop gets a wild hair and orders DIN rails, DIN terminal blocks, end caps and board mounting feet.
12:22 PM roycroft: emc-users is now the highest volume mailing list to which i subscribe
12:23 PM roycroft: it averages about 10 posts/day
12:23 PM roycroft: that's both good and bad for me
12:24 PM roycroft: good, because of all the information on the list
12:24 PM roycroft: bad because i can't keep up with it
12:24 PM * roycroft is doing his annual archving of mailing lists at the moment
12:32 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like some cultures do celebrate New Years by smashing pomegranates
12:33 PM roycroft: i could apprciate a tradition of eating a pomegranate on new year's day or eve
12:33 PM roycroft: smashing one seems a waste of deliciousness
12:34 PM CaptHindsight[m]: well superstitions
12:35 PM CaptHindsight[m]: looks like salt is a substitute so prepping for snow kill two birds with one...
12:36 PM CaptHindsight[m]: unless the juju doesn't with snow melt salts
12:37 PM CaptHindsight[m]: * juju doesn't work with snow
12:38 PM roycroft: wouldn't using salt like that put the sidewalk at risk of hypertension?
12:40 PM CaptHindsight[m]: I don't understand any of this juju stuff, best to ask a witch doctor or similar
01:02 PM Bleepshop: CaptHindsight[m]: You rang? ;D
01:05 PM Bleepshop: And I just said "Screw it [to the panel and put wires in it]." and added some slotted cable raceway to the order of panel cleanup parts.
01:10 PM Bleepshop: I'm sick of looking at a rats nest when I open my panel due to all the upgrades that were rolled in during testing and it's time to draw out a circuit diagram, rip it all out and re-do it properly.
01:11 PM Tom_L: i thought about that on mine but it might not work as good :)
01:13 PM Bleepshop: I just need to pull all >24V power circuits to a seperate panel, that'll open up the space to de-clutter it where I'll be happy.
01:37 PM JT-Shop: building a sliding tenon/spline jig from MDF is not a good idea... the glue swells it and the fit is not as designed
01:38 PM Tom_L: get any white stuff?
01:38 PM Tom_L: thin layer of ice and another thin layer of sleet here
01:39 PM roycroft: it's dry here, and the sun is almost poking out
01:39 PM roycroft: the deluge does not start until tomorrow
01:44 PM Tom_L: mobile services are getting picky about how you dial numbers now
01:45 PM Tom_L: alot of the local numbers i call request i enter the area but upon redialing the exact same sequence it goes thru
01:45 PM Tom_L: same goes for my bulk sms service i use
01:49 PM roycroft: my boss got all pissed off when we got our area code overlay and ten digit dialing was required
01:49 PM roycroft: so he went into our pbx and added our area code as a prepended digit string
01:50 PM roycroft: so that he could still do 7-digit dialing
01:50 PM roycroft: that broke all long distance calls, of course
01:50 PM roycroft: so he uses his cell phone for long distance
01:50 PM Tom_L: heh
01:51 PM roycroft: and yes, he blamed the government for the 10 digit dialing
01:51 PM Tom_L: luckil where i am 10 isn't required
01:51 PM roycroft: even though it was the telco who imposed it
01:51 PM Tom_L: but outlying areas are
01:51 PM roycroft: in his mind, any change of any kind is the fault of government
01:51 PM roycroft: and he does not like change
01:51 PM roycroft: except he has attention defecit disorder, and cannot focus on anything for more than a few minutes
01:51 PM Tom_L: it's those pesky covid tracking bugs
01:52 PM roycroft: and is constantly changing everything we do internally
01:52 PM JT-Shop: been raining since early this morning currently 57°F
01:52 PM Tom_L: anyway, after editing the file and adding the 1+ 100% went thru
01:52 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:53 PM roycroft: i guess change is fine as long as he's the one making the change
01:53 PM Tom_L: i just forgot to do it the first time
01:53 PM roycroft: but change is oppressive government when anyone or anything else makes a change
01:53 PM roycroft: it's odd
01:53 PM Tom_L: so i just finished all my eom eoq and eoy stuff. i'm off til monday
01:54 PM roycroft: but speaking of change, i have all my mailing lists cycled now so that last year's stuff is in 2021 folders
01:54 PM roycroft: now i can get back to some cad work
01:54 PM roycroft: btw, i redid those locating pins as you suggested, tom_l
01:54 PM Tom_L: which pins?
01:54 PM Tom_L: me forgot
01:54 PM roycroft: they're not blind on both ends, but go all the way through the upper part
01:54 PM roycroft: on my spindle mount
01:54 PM Tom_L: oh
01:54 PM roycroft: it makes a lot of sense to do it that way
01:55 PM roycroft: as in easier machining, with less stress
03:10 PM _unreal_: hello
03:10 PM * Bleepshop tests the mist coolant control and freaks the cat out.
03:11 PM _unreal_: so I still feel shitty... sore though and now the shits.... but everything calmed down for the past hour :S so I just attached the dryer... my father left the house so I was free to :S figure out the issue with out his BS take all day "" help "" for a 10-30min job...
03:11 PM Bleepshop: She does not like the 20PSI air dump through the test setup. LOL
03:11 PM _unreal_: so I moved the dryer unplugged pulled the back cover. checked out the heater coil... NO issues?
03:12 PM _unreal_: wiggled all of the wires and put it back together.
03:12 PM _unreal_: NOTHING runs no heat
03:12 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Electronic controls or basic twist-timer?
03:12 PM _unreal_: I let it go for a few more sec's then I saw a SWEET arc FLASH IN THE heat PORT INSIDE THE dryer. and there was heat again????
03:12 PM _unreal_: working for the moment thats all I care about
03:13 PM _unreal_: its something to do with the heating parts and wires.... beyond that I'm done dicking around with it it works again
03:13 PM _unreal_: now if my though would stop hurting
03:13 PM Bleepshop: That ardc was the heating coil re-welding itself.
03:13 PM _unreal_: Bleepshop, little more advanced but yes all turn dials
03:13 PM _unreal_: nothing digital on that old bastard
03:14 PM _unreal_: so far as I know
03:14 PM _unreal_: god I feel bad.... I broke out into a horrid sweat just doing the task that I did.
03:14 PM Bleepshop: That's the way a dryer should be. It may have bells and whistles but at it's most basic level you can hotwire it and make it dry cllothes. LOL
03:16 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: I had a massive intestinal upset yesterday morning, I thought it was the KFC the night before. LOL
03:16 PM _unreal_: I'm just glad that its working "again" I dont know if its fixed but. the way my father works. even if its 20 years old and rusty, you used it you broke it YOUR going to pay....'
03:16 PM _unreal_: happens to him.... nothing to see here move along
03:16 PM _unreal_: so tired of the nonsense
03:16 PM _unreal_: I know my issue is from the bugs....
03:17 PM _unreal_: omg... I'm shaking I'm so weak....
03:18 PM _unreal_: I want to toss my cloths in to DRY but I'm so run down from the past few days.... I'm going to rest a few
03:18 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Hot, hot shower. Then either swap to cold water or just get out and open the window.
03:18 PM _unreal_: o,O
03:18 PM _unreal_: thats shocking to the human body not advisable if one is sick....
03:18 PM Bleepshop: Artificial fever. Kill off whatever's trying to infest you.
03:19 PM _unreal_: now if they are in shock thats an other story
03:20 PM _unreal_: what I've been dealing with fits mosquito born encephalitis too the tee
03:20 PM Bleepshop: My doctor is annoyed at me. I've been doing the Finnish/Swedish sauna-bake/cold-cycle thing for >30 years and I'm only over there for checkups or serious injuries.
03:23 PM _unreal_: oh speaking of.. yesterday I did call the hosptal and asked if I could be tested for a mosquito likely sickness, they said they can not accommodate me and its 100% chance of covid.... and there they are only testing for covid..
03:23 PM _unreal_: blew me away
03:23 PM Bleepshop: I've been to the clinic 3 times in 8 years all of them for the doctor to question me, shake her head in amazement that I'm still bouncing off the walls, voice annoyance because It's been so long since my last checkup and pronounce me 'healthy'. LOL .
03:26 PM _unreal_: the man I talked to even said to me, I SOUND like I have covid.... now again I use to be a nurse. I'm trained to listen for a lot of things, heart sounds breathing sounds on and on. the only ONLY cough I was ever taught was whooping cough to look for. and everything else is indistinguishable.
03:26 PM _unreal_: right now I'm dealing with little/no voice
03:27 PM _unreal_: but ya I was like... really this does not sound like laryngitis. well well well..
03:27 PM _unreal_: I thank you good bye'ed at this point.
03:29 PM _unreal_: god... I've been eating slices of bread every 20min trying to combat the freaking squirts
03:30 PM Bleepshop: What I find hilarious is that I started worring about pandemic/epidemic possibilities in the early 90s when it got to the point where you could hit all 6 conitnents in <48 hours via airplane.
03:31 PM _unreal_: or less if you go military
03:31 PM Bleepshop: For my worries I was labeled 'paranoid' and 'anti-social'. Suddenly I do F-all different in my life and I'm 'being responsible'... xD
03:35 PM roycroft: one of the problems with technology is that we're slow to adjust our behaviors to adapt well to new technology, and because of that, new technology is often misused
03:35 PM _unreal_: Bleepshop, I am not kidding if you want to see something that will FREAK the hell out of you and you'll know why if you watch it watch this movie. https://www.tvguide.com/movies/alien-apocalypse/2030284097/
03:36 PM _unreal_: roycroft, who are you talking to?
03:36 PM _unreal_: or is that more of a general statement
03:37 PM Bleepshop: The Bruce Cambell flick? You're talking to an old Evil Dead fan. LOL
03:37 PM _unreal_: man I wish I could stop "drooling" I keep having to swallow and it hurts
03:37 PM _unreal_: Bleepshop, trust me.... watch that flick again and it will blow you away if "after you review it" know what I mean
03:37 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Gargle some salt water. hurts for a few but it helps.
03:38 PM _unreal_: been doing that
03:38 PM _unreal_: been doing perox.
03:38 PM _unreal_: problem is its beyond where I can gargal...
03:38 PM roycroft: the discussion of pandemics and fast travel
03:40 PM Bleepshop: Only other things I can think of would be garlic, stakes and fire. In that order. LOL
03:42 PM _unreal_: holy hell just tossed the cloths into the dryer and yes its working
03:42 PM _unreal_: but wow that winded me
03:43 PM roycroft: i'm beginning to think i need a dedicated cad workstation, as solidworks is getting really slow in a vm
03:43 PM roycroft: but i have no idea where i would be able to install such a machine
03:44 PM _unreal_: roycroft, YA THINK!!!!!
03:44 PM _unreal_: thats what this computer is
03:44 PM _unreal_: is a dedicated CAD station
03:44 PM roycroft: my office is tiny, yet i have three 27" displays connected to my newer imac, and my older imac has a 21" display
03:45 PM roycroft: fitting another screen in the office would be challenging, not to mention finding room for another keyboard/mouse/spacemouse/graphics tablit
03:45 PM roycroft: tablet
03:45 PM _unreal_: I'd have my laptop under it going to the second monitor but right now I'm using my phone for internet and doing all of my internet "traffic" on my phone. this ikling adapter is amazing
03:45 PM _unreal_: turns your phone into a computer more or less
03:45 PM _unreal_: or I should say more like a desktop computer
03:45 PM _unreal_: full wide screen.
03:46 PM roycroft: i'm swapping now
03:46 PM roycroft: but i'm doing a render
03:46 PM roycroft: i can feed the vm more memory, but most of the time it's not cpu/memory starved
03:46 PM roycroft: i think the slowness is primarily due to the gpu
03:47 PM _unreal_: even with hardware vm its still VM
03:47 PM _unreal_: your adding all kinds of overhead
03:47 PM roycroft: the overhead of vmware fusion is minimal - in the 3-5% range
03:47 PM roycroft: the problem is that on this particular machine it can't give raw access to the gpu to guests
03:47 PM _unreal_: when your rendering?
03:48 PM _unreal_: or "at rest"
03:48 PM roycroft: period
03:48 PM roycroft: the hypervisor is really thin
03:48 PM _unreal_: brb checking the dryer
03:48 PM roycroft: i don't do renders much - i just wanted to do one now, since i have the first subassembly for my z axis done the way i want to do it
03:49 PM _unreal_: photos?
03:49 PM _unreal_: omg... I'm shaking again from just walking
03:50 PM _unreal_: no fever, no body pains. just sore though and I have not had the shits since 7am :/
03:53 PM _unreal_: no pictures I guess
03:56 PM Bleepshop: Next weekend my CNC is getting 'upgraded'... Again. LOL
03:56 PM _unreal_: ?
03:57 PM roycroft: i think i'll give the vm another 4GB of ram to use
03:57 PM roycroft: that will help with some operatins
03:58 PM Bleepshop: I'm so sick of the mess in the panel. I went a little batshit earlier and ordered everything to cleanup the harness and seperate the power/control sections.
03:58 PM roycroft: i don't like messy wiring
03:59 PM roycroft: ooh, i can increase the 3d graphics memory in the vm
03:59 PM roycroft: it's set to 1GB right now
03:59 PM Bleepshop: And since some of the stuff was cheaper in bulk I'm going to have a few leftovers for other projects. LOL
04:00 PM roycroft: the gpu only has 2GB of ram though
04:00 PM roycroft: so i can't increase it much
04:01 PM Bleepshop: Is that the real GPU or the virtual? The RAM for the virtual comes out of the system RAM IIRC.
04:01 PM roycroft: it's too bad that the imac pro costs many thousands of dollars
04:01 PM roycroft: there are two settings, bleepshop
04:02 PM roycroft: my old, vintage 2008 mac pro was faster running graphics intensive apps than my curent imac
04:02 PM roycroft: and that's because it had a really high end framebuffer
04:05 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Possible solution for your limited desk space issue. https://www.sharemouse.com/two-computers-one-mouse/
04:06 PM Bleepshop: You can tile up to 9 with it.
04:07 PM Bleepshop: 9 machines that is
04:23 PM bobbytab1es is now known as bobbytables
04:36 PM _unreal_: ok got an other short burst of energy... did some research on the @#$%@#$ toilet.... solved that isssue. wouldnt seal
04:36 PM _unreal_: now dealing so far as I can tell
04:37 PM _unreal_: the other side of it the slow fill problem I dont dare mess with because the values in the house are so old. I do not trust most of them to not leak AFTER touching them.
04:38 PM _unreal_: I "could" shut the water off at the mains but I dont know where the key is in this house to kill the street side valve
04:38 PM _unreal_: :S
04:39 PM _unreal_: same issue with the cold water in the bathroom sink. I need to replace that valve in one of the side by side twin sinks. I can turn it off but boy if I open that valve to use that cold water DRIP DRIP DRIP
04:39 PM _unreal_: sigh
04:39 PM _unreal_: only reason I messed with that was. because the old plastic hose started to drip. I got a replacement and it BLEW out on me AS I was trying to fix it. OMG. turning that valve was hard
04:40 PM _unreal_: had to use a wrench. and all old un stress supported copper tubing
04:40 PM _unreal_: err stress=strain relief
04:40 PM _unreal_: ? jesus I type fast
04:42 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Loosen the packing nut [closest to the handle] a half turn, it'll drip a bit but you can tighten them back up when you're done.
04:43 PM Bleepshop: Or you can back it all the way off, twist 2-3 pieces of PTFE tape into a string, wind that around the stem and replace the nut.
04:44 PM Bleepshop: That cures 99% of the leaks.
04:45 PM _unreal_: heh wont work
04:45 PM _unreal_: they are 44 year old valves
04:45 PM _unreal_: turn style
04:45 PM _unreal_: err gate style
04:45 PM Bleepshop: Yeah, handle on top, nut under that to retain the guts.
04:45 PM _unreal_: the gasket is failed and the surface Im sure is no longer smooth
04:46 PM _unreal_: gasket oring
04:46 PM _unreal_: regardles
04:46 PM _unreal_: the ouside is very pitted
04:46 PM Bleepshop: I'm talking about replacing the stem packing so it's quit dripping at the valve under the sink.
04:46 PM _unreal_: and I HAD to turn it off
04:46 PM _unreal_: I cant turn the water off
04:46 PM _unreal_: I dont know where the key is
04:47 PM _unreal_: my father likes to hid everything that is emergency related... its @#$@#$ weird
04:47 PM _unreal_: hide
04:47 PM Bleepshop: It's all in one spot he can find in the dark from his favorite chair more than likely. LOL
04:48 PM _unreal_: sadly now that the veil is gone I see him for who he really is and why his "wife" of 42 years left.
04:49 PM _unreal_: regardless if i do anything I'll replace the valve with a ball valve
04:49 PM _unreal_: I had a whole list of stuff I was going to do during the vaca... and 100% of it has been fucked over
04:50 PM Bleepshop: Yeah, I've been replacing anything that needs a fast or secure shutoff with a 1/4 turn ball valve.
04:50 PM _unreal_: I'm hoping my AMC stock play does pan out..... in the future
04:51 PM _unreal_: if it does I expect to make anything from $60k-few mill fingers crossed
04:51 PM roycroft: a butterfly valve is usually faster than a ball valve, and has better flow than a ball valve
04:51 PM _unreal_: low end WELL I got more working cash
04:51 PM roycroft: but it's pretty much an all or nothing valve
04:51 PM _unreal_: these are simple bathroom sinks with air rators... they dont have flow
04:51 PM _unreal_: heh
04:53 PM _unreal_: I need sugar..... but I dont dare. I know I'm going to go really achy real fast if I do.
04:54 PM _unreal_: ! hot tea and honey
04:58 PM _unreal_: ok tea is going. I cant believe I forgot about HONEY/tea
04:58 PM _unreal_: then again I've been hiding in my room trying to self contain. and he just left the house for almost the first time in a week. amazing
04:59 PM Bleepshop: _unreal_: Did you see the sharemouse link?
04:59 PM _unreal_: sharemouse?
04:59 PM Bleepshop: >>_unreal_: Possible solution for your limited desk space issue. https://www.sharemouse.com/two-computers-one-mouse/
04:59 PM _unreal_: oh heh
05:00 PM _unreal_: ya... :s I'm ok with what I got setup ish
05:00 PM Bleepshop: It'll let you tile up to 9 machines off of one console. Kind of like X11 banged a KVM. LOL
05:05 PM _unreal_: ok an other project finished
05:06 PM _unreal_: my elderly neighbor gave me her late husbands old camera.... just a DSLR
05:06 PM _unreal_: she had no use for it.
05:06 PM _unreal_: I just finished pulling all of the photos off of the SDcards she handed me like two weeks ago :/
05:07 PM _unreal_: its not the greatest but when it was new it was what $600 ish?
05:08 PM _unreal_: DS126311
05:09 PM _unreal_: ? ahh
05:09 PM _unreal_: I dont know if its a $600 or a $5k now that I look at it?
05:09 PM _unreal_: and the freaking out side ONLY panel that has the exact working model is missing :/
05:09 PM _unreal_: peeled/wear off
05:11 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, it's omicron for sure!
05:17 PM slyme is now known as slime
05:30 PM _unreal_: conframation I did not fix the toilet. its leaking at the flush seal
05:30 PM _unreal_: too old has to be replaced
05:31 PM _unreal_: at least its a 5min job when I'm ready to venture out and get the part
05:58 PM Tom_itx: it was the dryer yesterday
05:59 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
06:03 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:04 PM Tom_L: 8F
06:05 PM _unreal_: ?
06:06 PM Tom_L: -13.3C
06:17 PM Tom_L: andypugh, how'd you come out on your mesh file?
06:19 PM JT-Cave: just got back from our annual New Years dinner with our friends...
06:19 PM XXCoder: 33f
06:19 PM JT-Cave: 56°F
06:19 PM XXCoder: rain tomorrow, ending snow
06:19 PM Tom_L: nice, what was for dinner?
06:19 PM JT-Cave: 12°F Thursday night
06:19 PM JT-Cave: I had a beef dip and the wife had a steak
06:20 PM Tom_L: sounds good
06:20 PM JT-Cave: geez not even getting above freezing tomorrow
06:20 PM JT-Cave: it was good and then we had blondie something for desert
06:20 PM Tom_L: at least so far we haven't gotten much frozen precip
06:21 PM JT-Cave: trying to build a splined miter joint frame but have come to the conclusion that I will have to assemble it before cutting the splines to keep them in the center
06:22 PM Tom_L: get the chickens all warmed up?
06:22 PM JT-Cave: no :(
06:23 PM Tom_L: i don't think these bars put out enough heat for that
06:26 PM JT-Cave: I'm thinking for the Cinnamon Queens I'll put a couple oil filled heaters under the poop table on low as I only have 20 amps to that coop
06:27 PM Tom_L: those are like 1500w aren't they?
06:27 PM JT-Cave: on high yes
06:29 PM JT-Cave: low 600w high 900w and both 1500w
06:42 PM t4nk_freenode: JT-Cave, ..strange question.. but.. do you ever eat chicken?
06:43 PM JT-Cave: all the time, my chickens make me breakfast but I don't eat my pet chickens
06:43 PM t4nk_freenode: I do, but if I had 'em, I could never eat my own
06:43 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah
06:46 PM t4nk_freenode: must make quite the difference in quality of the eggs, if you feed them well, and if they feel happy
06:46 PM Tom_L: they are spoiled rotten
06:46 PM Tom_L: ... not the eggs
06:46 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
06:49 PM JT-Cave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeGDeHUjS68
06:49 PM JT-Cave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97_jn-tHcII
06:51 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
06:54 PM _unreal_: andypugh, he has to be asleep at this time?
06:54 PM t4nk_freenode: nice man.. here in the city.. we have none of that
06:54 PM t4nk_freenode: instead, we are kept like chickens ourselves
06:55 PM t4nk_freenode: and not the free roaming kind
06:57 PM andypugh: I am trying to persuade a gullible friend to work in the mesh file :-)
06:57 PM Tom_L: heh
06:57 PM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, have you ever heard of an EZNET200?
06:57 PM _unreal_: wonderful linux box
06:58 PM t4nk_freenode: nope, never heard of it
06:59 PM _unreal_: You would prob love it.
06:59 PM _unreal_: trying to find it on archive.org I know its there
07:00 PM t4nk_freenode: mmm, I think I'll put a pencil in my cnc in a bit.. I want to work on that backlash
07:00 PM _unreal_: batchh was part of the URL personal isp web space back in the day. cable internet
07:00 PM t4nk_freenode: I never really experienced that much backlash, not when I made a few drawings either
07:00 PM t4nk_freenode: but now that I'm trying to do the pcbs, I started thinking about it
07:01 PM t4nk_freenode: I have those anti-backlash nuts with springs on my leadscrews
07:02 PM t4nk_freenode: I've been measuring with a probe on the pcbs, say I probe down until it touches.. I then select 1 step
07:03 PM _unreal_: just some advice. dont start at the code end. start at the z and work your way back and see if you can find play in the axis its self regardless of what it is. solve that THEN solve the backlash in code..... just saying
07:03 PM t4nk_freenode: I got my z axis set to 200 steps per mm at the moment, to make it a bit stronger
07:04 PM _unreal_: if you have run out in the machine backlash coding is only going to amplify it..
07:04 PM t4nk_freenode: then I make it so that it disconnects the probe when I go up 1 step.. 0.05mm
07:04 PM t4nk_freenode: and makes contact again when I move back down 0.05mm
07:05 PM t4nk_freenode: when I do so for the z axis.. I need about 0.27mm compensation to make that work
07:06 PM t4nk_freenode: but now I've made height maps for my pcbs, and it's actually pretty useless
07:06 PM t4nk_freenode: well, I don't break my bits any more, so the upgrade making my z more sturdy has worked
07:06 PM t4nk_freenode: but with the compensation it now somehow only does half traces
07:07 PM t4nk_freenode: it misses one half of the traces, or it barely does them
07:07 PM t4nk_freenode: it's strange
08:28 PM Bleepshop: t4nk_freenode: Have you checked the PCB material for flatness/thickness?
08:29 PM t4nk_freenode: no, not really, but the margins are so gruesome that I can safely say it isn't that ;)
08:30 PM t4nk_freenode: I was just running some probing with anti backlash compensation turned off
08:30 PM * Bleepshop has seen epoxy-glass board vary >0.020" in thickness.
08:31 PM t4nk_freenode: youknow... when I have compensation turned on, and I perform a probe scan
08:31 PM t4nk_freenode: and return to the origin afterwards
08:32 PM t4nk_freenode: then.. when I started with the probe touching at the origin
08:32 PM t4nk_freenode: and I return to the origin... then the probe isn't touching anymore
08:32 PM t4nk_freenode: but now with compensation turned off... it returns to the origin touching
08:32 PM t4nk_freenode: that's strange
08:32 PM Bleepshop: t4nk_freenode: Sounds like the ocmpensation is skewed.
08:33 PM t4nk_freenode: when I look at how the pcb is mounted right now.. lol.. I can see one corner sticking up ;)
08:34 PM t4nk_freenode: but that shouldn't really matter I guess, because that's why I'm doing the map
08:38 PM t4nk_freenode: mmmm
08:39 PM t4nk_freenode: I just ran without compensation, but with a height map
08:39 PM t4nk_freenode: and now the z seems ok, just need to find the right depth
08:40 PM t4nk_freenode: heh, but I think some comensation for x and y are necessary because the pin holes are square
08:40 PM Tom_L: drilled holes?
08:42 PM t4nk_freenode: no no, I'm using a v-bit, and they are the contours
08:42 PM t4nk_freenode: drilling them would come afterwards
08:43 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm trying to make breakout boards, so to mount a chip and then solder a pin header on the pcb later
08:43 PM t4nk_freenode: so you could mount them on a breadboard perhaps
08:44 PM t4nk_freenode: but I'm really just trying to tune things, a small pcb seems easiest
09:04 PM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, as I said. MAKE it easy. on your self. IF... your working waste board has been leveled to your machine meaning just do a leveling pass.. then you need only to use this stuff to stick the pcb board down. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/LeEAAOSwlQ9Zoz4s/s-l400.jpg I always reccomend putting down blue 2020masking tape. LOW stick residue type. on both surfaces and the foam tape between.
09:05 PM _unreal_: if your waste board is level. then using a bunch of these evenly spaced to support your PCB is all that is needed. doing auto level tests is not wrong but an extra step. when you can just follow what I suggested and not even have to deal with it.
09:06 PM _unreal_: its adding a step that is not wrong to something that is not needed.
09:08 PM t4nk_freenode: look, I'm sorry, but that won't do it for me, something else is needed
09:08 PM t4nk_freenode: I did level my wasteboard btw, or at least I think I did
09:09 PM _unreal_: level it as in use something like a 6.35mm bit to mill a shallow surface off of your waste board?
09:09 PM _unreal_: back and forth the entire surface?
09:10 PM t4nk_freenode: yes
09:10 PM t4nk_freenode: I may even take my special large planing bit and run it tomorrow across my entire board
09:11 PM _unreal_: then if done well and level. then just putting down blue tape to that surface. foam tape. then blue tape to the PCB and any imperfections in the working surface will transfer into the PCB reardless. does not matter because the machine will deviate anyways. so its always perfect and level
09:11 PM _unreal_: if you do that
09:11 PM _unreal_: use a small bit first to "cut" the first penitration
09:11 PM _unreal_: less load on your machine
09:12 PM _unreal_: and again you only want to go .25-.5m deep
09:12 PM _unreal_: how big of a bit?
09:12 PM t4nk_freenode: but how can you advise on using a 15 degrees 0.1mm tip v-bit on a pcb.. when you have never done that? you are using a 0.5mm log?
09:13 PM t4nk_freenode: .25mm deep?? .5mm deep??? do you even know what you are suggesting?
09:13 PM _unreal_: O.o lol
09:13 PM _unreal_: I have tons and tons of tifferent bits
09:13 PM _unreal_: I have 3 degree bits
09:13 PM _unreal_: only good on wood
09:13 PM t4nk_freenode: right, but still, you haven't done it
09:14 PM _unreal_: it wont work with that fine a tip
09:14 PM t4nk_freenode: else you wouldn't say what you say
09:14 PM _unreal_: ?
09:15 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm trying to make pretty darned fine traces man
09:15 PM t4nk_freenode: can't go .5mm deep, lol
09:15 PM t4nk_freenode: the copper layer is probably only around .12mm thick in the first place
09:16 PM _unreal_: shrug
09:16 PM _unreal_: I have 3 types of pcb
09:16 PM _unreal_: 4mm 2m 1m thick copper
09:17 PM _unreal_: and single and dbl sided
09:17 PM _unreal_: my cache
09:17 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah, but still you've never milled an ssop
09:18 PM _unreal_: yes I have
09:18 PM t4nk_freenode: okidoki then
09:18 PM _unreal_: just not with the .5 bit
09:29 PM roycroft: there are tornado watches across much of the central part of the country
09:31 PM Tom_L: wasn't aware of that
09:35 PM roycroft: i just saw an article on wunderground.com
09:36 PM roycroft: it looks like you're out of the main danger zone, but jt is in the middle of it
09:36 PM Tom_L: just cold here right now
09:36 PM Tom_L: oh?
09:36 PM roycroft: from arkansas to ohio, including southeastern missouri
09:36 PM roycroft: and kentucky, sadly, which won't recover from the last tornados for years
09:37 PM Tom_L: looks further E of him
09:37 PM roycroft: but it's just tornado watches right now
09:37 PM roycroft: no warnings
09:38 PM Tom_L: Al and Tn look like theyre getting the worst of it
09:39 PM roycroft: yeah, i just reloaded and it looks more in the south now
09:39 PM roycroft: the map i was looking at a few minutes ago showed it much farther north
09:40 PM roycroft: tennessee was approximately the southern edge of the watch
09:40 PM roycroft: now its looks like it goes well down into mississippi and alabama
09:41 PM roycroft: we have a high wind advisory for this evening, but it's mostly to the east of here
09:47 PM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, i did it i got a link with the stm32 finally
09:53 PM _unreal_: t4?
09:53 PM snakedGT is now known as snaked
10:09 PM t4nk_freenode: yes, I'm here, oh Master, but I was occupado
10:09 PM t4nk_freenode: calling it a night, cnc-wise
10:09 PM t4nk_freenode: and soon over-all
10:10 PM _unreal_: I may not be far behind
10:10 PM t4nk_freenode: depends what you're talking about ;)
10:10 PM _unreal_: ok so at this point I have a link so I need to solve changes that I need/want changed
10:10 PM _unreal_: for compiling the grbl32
10:11 PM t4nk_freenode: ? so you found 1 link that solves everything?
10:11 PM _unreal_: no
10:11 PM _unreal_: I mean I CONNECTED to the blackpill
10:11 PM _unreal_: finally got it to have a data connection
10:12 PM _unreal_: now code-options-compile needs to be done
10:12 PM _unreal_: the only thing that connects to it is stm32cubeprog
10:12 PM t4nk_freenode: what kind of data connection are you talkign about?
10:13 PM _unreal_: stlink
10:14 PM _unreal_: stlink cube programer and "write code" program look identical. that is what was messing with me. I didnt know the connection package was a different program
10:14 PM _unreal_: so regardless now its onto the code phase
10:15 PM t4nk_freenode: I don't use stm32cubeprog
10:15 PM _unreal_: I dont have a choice regardless its just an uploader
10:15 PM _unreal_: bin,hex.elf etc.....
10:17 PM _unreal_: I'm looking over these options https://github.com/grblHAL/plugins
10:17 PM t4nk_freenode: great, now you can be a tester
10:18 PM _unreal_: encoder, laser/p laser/c fans happely
10:18 PM _unreal_: keypad is interesting to me as well
10:19 PM _unreal_: laser collent I would tie to the air assist
10:19 PM t4nk_freenode: this stuff actually mostly works out of the box
10:19 PM _unreal_: compressor
10:20 PM _unreal_: what is killing me is I have this sitting in front of me
10:20 PM _unreal_: paum30
10:20 PM _unreal_: I dont have the reciver
10:20 PM _unreal_: but on the inside its amazing
10:20 PM _unreal_: aside from buttons etc....
10:21 PM _unreal_: the Dpad is a big circle its an any direction joystick
10:21 PM _unreal_: and it has 2 boards inside
10:22 PM _unreal_: one board is the dpad with a small 8bit micro controller and its got an IR output "" control" the second board only has 3 wires so +v g sig I assume its just serial?
10:22 PM _unreal_: god that would be amazing to have for control of the laser
10:22 PM _unreal_: but I think its more then I want to dela with regardless
10:22 PM t4nk_freenode: and this connects to the blackpill... how?
10:23 PM _unreal_: just toying with ideas that are not going to happen
10:23 PM _unreal_: I assume there is an LCD support somehwere as well
10:23 PM _unreal_: ... naa I dont need LCD I have the computer right there
10:26 PM _unreal_: laser collent is useless
10:26 PM _unreal_: I'm only just getting to reading these. i've been going nuts trying to get the link working
10:26 PM _unreal_: I like to SERIAL task.....
10:26 PM _unreal_: as much as possible
10:27 PM t4nk_freenode: what is a laser collent?
10:29 PM _unreal_: the glass tube lasers have a glass water jacket
10:29 PM _unreal_: they run water over it to cool it
10:29 PM _unreal_: look up k40 laser
10:29 PM t4nk_freenode: I will not ;)
10:30 PM t4nk_freenode: I will head to bed, buddy
10:30 PM t4nk_freenode: and achieve phenomenal results come tomorrow
10:32 PM _unreal_: fans, laser ppi and keyboard are the onlything I think I need
10:33 PM _unreal_: I do nbeed to change the limits from NC in code to NO
10:33 PM _unreal_: and you were right about the ESTOP yes I was wrong
10:33 PM _unreal_: I admit it I fucked up...
10:34 PM _unreal_: with a good excuse
10:34 PM _unreal_: the motor controller board has an ESTOP pin on it. What I didnt know is that that ties to REST
11:03 PM roycroft: snl are showing the betty white episode tonight
11:11 PM Bleepshop: roycroft: Well, they had to do something to boost their ratings... LOL
11:14 PM roycroft: their ratings are fine
11:14 PM roycroft: and this has been one of the best years for content in a long time
11:15 PM roycroft: now that our former president is out of office, they've been spending more time being funny and less time trashing the president